S5:E143🎙️ LIVE with CSM Jason Schmidt, USA (MULTI TRACKS AUDIO)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple, to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to Welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

Our next speaker today served in key leadership positions from sergeant to Command Sergeant Major in infantry, airborne, Cav, and armored formations over the past 26 years. He has operational combat tours in Korea, Haiti, and Iraq.

All right, welcome to another very special episode of the Leadership and Success podcast. We have a very special guest for you today, especially for those following us who are enlisted in a branch of the military and all of my junior officers. All right, before I bring him on board, I am reminded we always start the show with what we call moment of gratitude. This is where we take just a quick moment to be grateful and Part of the reason why we do this is because in the military, it's about 21, 22 service members and veterans who commit suicide every single day. And I believe it's impossible to be suicidal and be grateful at the very same time. So if you would maybe close your eyes and put yourself in your happy place and think about one thing that you are grateful for right now. And for me, especially during this season from June 10th to July 4th, I am so grateful for freedom. But the truth is, freedom is not free, is it? People in uniform, our young men and women have gone all around the world to defend our freedom. Somebody paid the price for the freedom you enjoy today in America, and I want to just be reflecting on that for just a moment. So I am so, so grateful for that. So if you would, in the chat, let us know where are you joining us from, what city, what state, and which country if you are joining us from outside of the US, and also what you are grateful for right now. And if you do have a question for our guest today, type it in the comments and we will be answering your questions live. All right. Without any further ado, let me see if I can properly introduce our guest. I am really honored and privileged to welcome Command Sergeant Major Jason Smith, the Command Sergeant Major at the United States Army Pacific, to the Leadership and Success podcast. So CSM Schmidt has dedicated more than 32 years— can you believe that— of service to our nation, rising from a 19 Delta Cavalry Scout to become the senior enlisted leader for America's Army in the Indo-Pacific. And just for those who are not in the military, so that you know, it's less than like 2% of the people who join the military end up as an E-9. That's just, uh, Wonderful. It is such a great accomplishment. So his remarkable career has included service with the 82nd Airborne Division. They are legendary. Everybody knows about them. But 8th Army, IMCOM Pacific, US Army Operational Test Command, and as the 23rd Commandant and 5th Enlisted Commandant of the NCO, right, Noncommissioned Officer Leadership Center of Excellence, and the Sergeant Major Academy. Wow. So he's highly respected strategic leader mentor, military family advocate, and lifelong learner whose career embodies service, standards, and leader development. Part of what we're going to be learning today is why the NCO Corps is truly the backbone of the United States Army. And, uh, I believe for the Navy, you know, the Chief Mess E-7, E-8, and E-9, they really truly run the Navy. The anchor runs the Navy. Now, some of us senior officers sometimes take credit for what they do, but I'm telling you, without the Chief Mess, the Navy is absolutely nothing. But part of what we're going to be learning also is, uh, what military and civilian leaders can learn from the Army's leadership model. So no matter who you are, whether you are in cybersecurity or in the military, especially those who are enlisted and junior officer, I think this podcast is for you. I think I have learned that organizations rise and fall on the quality of their leaders, and few leaders understand this better than CSM Schmidt. So without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Command Sergeant Major Jason Schmidt. Good evening, CSM. How are you doing today, sir?

I'm great. Good evening, Bob. How are you?

Great. I think it's been almost, I don't know, 5 or 6 months we've been trying to make this happen. I am so glad and honored and privileged to be talking to you today, the man himself. Just to get started, Sergeant Major, what is one thing you are grateful for today?

Yeah, it was great the way you opened up the show that way because that helps have a positive outlook. Things that I'm grateful every day, you know, I'm grateful for my life. I'm grateful for my wife. I'm grateful for my daughters. I'm grateful for our nation. And I'm grateful that, you know, I'm a part of the world's greatest Army. So there's plenty of good things, but a great way to always hunt the good stuff.

All right, go Navy or go Army?

Well, yeah, I'm a little biased, but service in any of the joint forces is well That's, that is so, so, so right.

Is there something about you, Sergeant Major, that most people may not know when they first meet you? Maybe like a superpower or just something unique about you?

Uh, probably a hobby that most people wouldn't have, wouldn't have guessed about me. Um, so, so I, I am and used to be an avid snowboarder. I'm getting, I'm getting a little older. Most, most people wouldn't know that about me or guess because it's Probably not, not things that most old sergeants majors do, um, but I picked it up again. That was something, that was something of a gift that the Army gave me, and I was stationed in Alaska for a while.

That's amazing.

Never too old to learn things.

Not many places like Alaska, for sure. Wow. Now let's talk about the making of a senior enlisted leader. Like I said in the introduction, less than 2% of service members end up as an E-9 in the military, any branches. That is quite an accomplishment. And you enlisted as a cavalry scout, right, in 1993, I believe. What did young Specialist Schmidt misunderstand about leadership that Command Sergeant Major Schmidt now knows deeply?

Yeah, well, I think, you know, the beauty of our Army is, you know, we get leader development in 3 buckets, right? We get it through training, We get it through education and we get it through experience. My personal opinion is that most of the leader development is going to come from the experience piece, right? You can go to school and learn different things and all those, but you know, you learn it from the noncommissioned officers and officers as you do your field training exercises, as you model and emulate the behaviors that they teach you in garrison. You know, it's kind of like going— it's like truck driving school, right? It's the on-the-job training that really matters. The experience piece. Comes from, from those NCOs that, that bring you up. You know, it's not— you can't just build a Command Sergeant Major, right? You, you have to grow them sequentially and progressively through those different key assignments that ultimately will give them the right knowledge, skills, and behaviors to operate at the effective levels that they do.

That is, that is really something. Here I just want to have your opinion, CSM. I know, for example, for the officer, we have 2 programs that I know of where instead of coming in as an O-1, which is what you're supposed to be, they come in like as an O-2 or an O-3. I've even seen some come in as an O-4, especially those in the medical field. Do you— what do you think, just generally speaking? Because I, I think I agree with you with the process. Is it okay for the Army to bring people, let's say, as an E-4 and E-3 and kind of skip some of the steps. How do you feel about that?

Well, yeah, if you're, if you're talking like at the PFC and specialist level, yeah, because they're, they're still going to be required to get the requisite, uh, primary military education to become a non-commissioned officer, a sergeant, right? It's still— those steps are still going to be required, and, you know, they'll learn some of that experience as they spend more time within their organizations, right?

That is, that is, that is good to know because I know when I went to boot camp, I went from E-1 to E-3 and some of my peers went straight to E-4, which for the Navy is petty officer. Okay, that is good to know. Was there maybe a moment in your early career when you truly realized that leadership was about people but not position? As you know, in the military we have a regimented chain of command and ranks do mean a lot. When did you realize it was truly about people and not position or titles?

Yeah, well, especially for the Army, right? Not to be parochial, but, you know, the Army is a people-centric organization, right? And that comes with a lot of great talent, but it also comes with, you know, people have problems. So, you know, you got to be hard, you got to be empathetic, you know, you got to use differing tools to truly understand what motivates people. Because different things motivate different folks, right? The beauty of the Army, right, is that, you know, we are, we are a, you know, just a segment and a snapshot of the entire, you know, population of, you know, the states. And, you know, all of us were raised differently, but the one common goal is that we all join, you know, this values-based organization. So the responsibility of leading people, especially in the Army, You know, it's very, very important. It's not just the rank. I mean, you can look at the rank and you're going to listen, but do you respect the individual behind it?

Wow.

That is so powerful. And is there maybe some noncommissioned officer or commissioned officer who kind of shaped your leadership philosophy the most?

Yeah, I mean, so I came in like, like you did on the intro in 1993, and there was a lot of, a lot of the Gulf War vets, you know, were the folks that, you know, my generation of that time emulated. And, you know, you mentioned Haiti. So before we went into Haiti and did Operation Uphold Democracy, I mean, those were the guys and gals that taught us what we needed to do. As you know, in my case, as a young Scout out there to do those things. So I had some good teachers, right?

That is really something. And as you know, E-7, E-89, you guys really mentor not just the junior enlisted, but junior officers as well. What are some of the habits you think, uh, enlisted and junior officers should really build before they are ever put in charge?

Yeah, so the biggest thing that I think between, you know, the non-commissioned officer and our officers, right, you know, our organizations are officer-led and NCO-ran. So I call that roles, right, and then responsibilities. The beauty with, with with our, our design is relationships, right? We have a relationship with our officer, and I don't mean we're friends and, and all those things, right? We build our officers, or we help build our officers. You know, doesn't matter which commissioning source that, that they come from. If they go to OCS, they are TAC NCOs. If they go to ROTC, there's TAC NCOs. If they go to West Point, there are TAC NCOs, right? So the commissioning sources are relevant. They are exposed to non-commissioned officers at a very, you know, junior age, whether they're cadets or whether they come from one of the other commissioning sources, right? So there is, there is an obligation, right, to help our officers from, from a very young age, uh, where they may be a brand new platoon leader, um, but then even as they progress up to the most senior ranks, the importance of an NCO doesn't change, right? But the relationship is still there so that, you know, you're there to help them and the organization along the way.

That is so Powerful. And for all of the junior enlisted listening now, thinking of myself when I used to be an E-3 seaman in the Navy, what would you tell them the secret of your success is? How you were able to make it all the way up to E-9 as a Command Sergeant Major? What made you so successful?

Yeah, that's a good question. I, you know, I had a lot of great people carry me on their back. You know, that's number one. I had a lot of great mentors. And I, you know, I was just telling you, you know, hard work pays off, right? Take the tough assignments, put your head down and push, right? Push the boulder up the hill. If it rolls over you, go back down to the bottom of the hill and push it back up. And just be, be genuinely present wherever you're at, you know, whichever organization or unit you're with, right? That's the best one ever, right? Take ownership, be present. You know, eventually the next level's gonna come to you, right? People, people will recognize that hard work. You know, you want a solid reputation, I think. You know, you want, hey, you know, Bob's a mechanic, I drop him in to fix things. Not Bob's, you know, kind of here half the time and generally not interested in where he wants to be because he wants to be somewhere else.

Wow, so really the mindset makes a big difference, doesn't it?

I think so, yeah, right.

Now, you don't have your service dress uniform on. One question I ask sometimes when I meet people for the first time is which one of all of your medals is the most— what should I say— meaningful to you of all of the medals you've earned so far and why?

Well, I mean, they're all important in some way, shape, or form, right? And, you know, medals that are awarded to individuals a lot of times were part of a collective and team effort. Most people don't wear it anymore, but I like the Army Service Ribbon. That's, you know, because, because that was an organization that allowed me to join it, right, and really shaped, uh, my persona, uh, who I am as an individual, and gave me, you know, some things that I was really needing at a, you know, probably— I won't say an adolescent, but at a younger, more immature point in my life where I needed some structure.

That is quite powerful. I think for me, the, the one that means the most to me is the Good Conduct Medal. As you know, officers don't get that because we always expect it to be good. But when I was I earned it after 3 years, and I love looking back to it, you know, kind of where I came from. And wow, that is, that is quite powerful. Now, you are highly decorated. You've earned the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart. How does adversity refine leadership, and what did it refine in you?

Yeah, well, I think it's, it's kind of how you react to it, right? I mean, if you, you can find an opportunity in a crisis, right, or you can collapse in the crisis. I think how you approach problems. You know, I think how you've prepared for some of the, some of the unforeseen problems too, right? I mean, you can't train once you're in, in, you know, the firefight, the problem set, the mission, whatever it is, right? So if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready. If you've prepared for what you're designed to do, 9 times out of 10, you know, your instincts, your training, and all that will kick in as second nature. So I think if you approach, approach those things that way, right? When you find yourself in adversity or where you hunt the good stuff, if it's a, excuse me, if it's a mental challenge, right?

Mm-hmm.

If it's a physical challenge you're going through, if it's a field problem, if it's real, real world or war, you know, um, the way you, the way you approach, uh, as a leader, those problems or those situations, that's how your, that's how your organization's gonna, you know, view them too.

Let me see if I can push back just a little bit. And I do agree with you, training has a lot to do with it, right? I think in the Army and the Navy, we all agree we don't rise up to our potential, but we always fall back to our training. That's why training is so important. However, I have seen sailors and soldiers who go through similar training because before you get deployed, everybody goes through the same type of training. But then when you are there, some sailors, again, like you say, they just thrive and they find the opportunity, but others, they just kind of fall apart. What, what do you think makes the difference between a soldier who just thrives during adversity and one that has similar training but just can't make it?

Well, it could be life experiences, could be, you know, different mindsets. You know, you train for the known and you educate for the unknown, right? I mean, why one individual would react to the same situation as another, that's, that's the human dimension of leadership, right, that, you know, leaders have to sort out. I don't know that any of us would truly know that. Um, but, but I will tell you, yeah, that does happen where you have the exact same situation with two like items of equipment and you have two different outcomes. I think it's, it's the human endeavor because I don't think, you know, you probably couldn't find really, you know, you can put most people in the same room and you, you know, you don't, you don't get the same type of, of outcomes when you have thinking. That's kind of what makes us unique as humans. But it also makes, you know, leaders have a job and be employed, right? Because that's the human dimension of leading in an organization like that.

That is so powerful. And of course, in what we do, lives are at stake, right? Unlike— I am here in Silicon Valley, you know, whether you work for Microsoft, Google, or Facebook, no, anything bad happens, nobody's going to die, right? Worst-case scenario, they just lose money. But in our line of work, sometimes people do lose their lives. So when lives, readiness, and national strategy intersect, How do you maintain clarity under pressure when the stakes are high?

Well, first thing is understanding, you know, the mission, right? And then as you, as you seek to, you know, start working towards accomplishment of those goals, right? It's like, it's like organizing, right? You want to get your team on board. You want them to understand the why, the purpose behind it, right? What, what the objectives are so that they understand their roles, duties, and responsibilities. And in whatever, you know, operation or mission or, you know, business endeavor you're undertaking, if you're speaking of Silicon Valley, right? So that they understand where they fit into the overall piece of the operation or endeavor, right? And then, you know, seek to ensure that they have the right tools, resources, clarify any information they may need.

So true. But you actually, you have a CSM of US AR PAC, so Strategic leadership in the Indo-Pacific, that's really one of the most dynamic theaters in the world. How does enlisted leadership influence strategic outcomes in that area?

Well, first off, you know, everything I do is to support my boss's theater-only strategy. I mean, it's the truth. I mean, the NCO is the NCO support channel. We talked about it, you know, opening where, you know, in these, you know,— I'll say the Joint Force, but, you know, I speak, you know, with my Army experience. It is officer-led and NCO-run, meaning that what we do through the support channel is to support those priorities and initiatives of my boss. And those are, you know, a theater Army strategy is, is big. If you know how big, you know, the PACOM region is, it's vast. So, you know, when you think through that, you know, in the support channel, you trust and empower, you know, your supporting noncommissioned officers that they're carrying out, you know, those things for their boss because their bosses are going to be supporting, you know, in my case, General Clark's theater army strategy of people, partnerships, and prevail. And everything you do should be along those three lines of effort. And then if you have any time after that, you can play with your pet rocks. But I didn't have any time. Yeah, everything should be nested for those things.

Yes, yes. I, I, I know I've been assigned to Indo-Pacom in the past, definitely during those exercises. No, I don't think I slept more than 3, 3 hours a day during this time. It's crazy. But what, what does readiness actually look like in 2026?

Well, for— well, there's a lot that readiness encompasses, right? But from my foxhole, what, what I look to, right, in the support channel is, you know, noncommissioned officers in the Army, in our doctrine, are responsible for building individual small teams and crews, right? So when you think through that, it boils it down to individual tasks, right? Are they experts in whatever their MOS or proficiency is, right?

Yes.

Are they fit, disciplined, well-trained, able to meet the demands of large-scale combat operations in a multi-domain environment, right? If they're individually trained, if they're good at those skills, right, then that's going to fit into our, our officer's responsibility. Goes back to roles and responsibilities. They're responsible for the collective training. The collective training cannot happen if Soldiers don't know how to do the individual skills. So you dial into a lot of that. You know, our Sergeant Major of the Army says, be brilliant at the basics, right? So define the basics for Schmidt. They're shoot, move, communicate, medicate, fieldcraft, and fitness. If you can do those things right, you're gonna, you're gonna be good. When all else fails, you don't have anything on the training schedule, then you do those things.

That is really powerful because sometimes I wonder how the military is able to prepare enlisted folks for such huge, huge responsibility? Because even when I was enlisted, sometimes you are in charge of a lot of money and people and part of the mission. How do you get your soldiers ready?

Well, I think, you know, I think in the case of, you know, how we get them ready for increasing roles and responsibilities, right, it's that, it's that leader development triangle I talked about, training, education, and experience, right? The, the Bulk of it will come from, you know, the leader development that you get at your organization, learning the hands-on skills by teaching, coaching, and mentoring what we should be doing as noncommissioned officers, building our replacement. The other piece is, you know, our, our T2COM, formerly known as TRADOC, right? Has— we have, you know, the gold standard in my opinion. And again, I say I'm biased, but of professional military education for our noncommissioned officers. It's sequential, it's progressive, it builds upon itself. Yes, it's Common Core, so we know what everybody should know throughout all noncommissioned officer ranks, and then we also have the second portion of MOS-specific training for each of those, you know, different occupational specialties that are out there across the Army. So I think, you know, enforcing PME, training your soldiers, right, and building, building your replacement, um, is how you get them ready for increasing, you know, roles across the Army and to grow.

And for those outside of the military, PME, you mean professional military education, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. I guess for the officer, I believe across all of the 4, I guess 5 branches now, if you are, I guess, O-3, lieutenant for the Navy, captain for the other branches, you are required to start working on that. Yeah, I think it does make a lot of difference. But you are right about, no, education many times I think it's a lot of theory. You learn a bunch of stuff, but then it's important to also have the experience. And then, as you said, the training helps too. But now there's been a chance that we can no longer ignore artificial intelligence. The last couple of years, it's pretty much changed every single industry around the world. Even I was actually shocked, right? It was in January when the Department of Defense, for the first time in our history, we actually used AI for a live military operation. So in an era of artificial intelligence, cyber threat, and autonomous systems, what must remain distinctly human in military leadership?

Yeah, well, again, with, with, with any piece of technology, right, you know, I take it back to being brilliant at the basics. You know, don't be averse to technology or to change or, or any of those things, right? You got to embrace it. You got to know where it fits in, how to effectively use it. What the safeguards are, you know, whether that's human in the loop, all those other things. But at the end of the day, right, being brilliant at the basics is going to help you fight, survive, and thrive, you know, on, on whatever battlefields out there. Those basics, as we defined, you know, for me, I told you what they are. Other people may, may define them differently, right? So I say embrace it, use it, don't be resistant to change, right? But you always got to have a backup plan, right? If, if the GPS doesn't work, you better know how to use the lensatic compass, right? If you have the most exotic XYZ, know how to do digital and then how to transition back to analog, right? Because, um, the battlefield could change at any point in time.

So true. And I'm hoping that in the training we, we get going forward, people don't forget about the way we used to do certain stuff. Because sometimes myself, I'm a little bit worried with this new, uh, surface war officer using GPS and all of that stuff, if they even knew now how to read the stars and all of that and be able to navigate. Something to think about. But okay, let me ask you this, CSM, how do you build trust across multinational partners with different cultures and doctrine? First, PACOM is a joint thing. It's not just VMI, it's VMI, the Navy, Air Force, and all of these other flavors of the US military. But then you also have all of our partners. So especially when you do not have a lot of time, how do you build trust with your teams?

Yeah, so it's actually— I spend a significant amount of time in that arena, um, because, you know, especially in, in the PACOM region, we're not going to do this alone. We're going to do this as part of a joint force. If something happens, and we're going to do something as part of a multinational force. Yes. The, um, the first— I put it in two buckets, right? The first part, you know, you can— if we're building trust, that's, that's a new introduction, right? And most of the time we've been here for a while, and sometimes, you know, that is based upon individuals learning each other for the first time, not necessarily countries.

Yes.

The other bucket is cultivating trust, right? It's not just a one-and-done or meet and greet and we've met you and checked the block, right? Um, Showing up matters in the Pacific. We have, General Clark actually has, so we talked about his theater Army strategy, we also have a Pacific Enlisted Leader Development Strategy out here, which seeks and aims to get after that. The two types of interoperability we seek to build, right, the tactical stuff will happen throughout those, you know, we do 50-some different exercises and/or campaigns throughout the theater throughout the year, That's the tactical piece that our commanders will bake in their joint jumps, ranges, staff exes, those things, right? We do a lot of terms, a lot of work in terms of intellectual or the professionalization of, of those things where, you know, their non-commissioned officer corps may look— we may do a needs and gap analysis and make some recommendations on, on their PME or their leader development models, right? So those types of things where you build trust, not a one and done, but presence, showing up matters, doing work, emulating, helping to professionalize on the intellectual side. A lot of work done in that space.

Wow, that is something. I must tell you that the more senior I've become in the Navy, the more I learned that a lot of what we are taught really came from the Army. We just stole it, but it does, it does, it does work. Like, for example, leadership mentor. Like, when I was a commanding officer, my mentor was Mission First, People Always. And I thought like, oh, we came up with that. No, no, no. It was an Army thing. We just, we just stole it, but it does work. So we keep doing it. Now let's talk about developing leaders and talent of tomorrow. As a senior enlisted leader, that's definitely one of your very important jobs, not just for the enlisted, but for the junior officers as well. So you have served at Human Resources Command too. What does the Army get right about talent management?

So again, talent management, you know, that's very broad. I mean, so HRC's assignment space, right? I mean, when you look at how assignments are done, that's matching knowledge, skills, behaviors. Sometimes it's special skill identifiers. What I tell folks is, you know, selfless is one word, right? And sometimes folks take the selfless and cut it in half and becomes about self. Every job out there is, is a leader development opportunity, right? Where you see yourself is never going to be where you end up. Most of the assignments that I've had, and they've all been gifts and they've all been, you know, learning lessons and, and the different things. And I've put things in my duffel bag from each and every assignment that's out there.

Wow.

So, so point being is, you know, I take it back to where the Army tells you to go, go. Right. Because you never know what you're going to learn from that, you know, and where you're at, be present. Um, HRC gets it right. I mean, there's, there's a, a, you know, enlisted marketplace where folks can preference and, and, you know, it's needs of the Army first, right? And then if by some, if by some chance it lines up, then you got a bonus. Um, yeah, but, you know, the Army has, the Army has needs and, you know, By and large, you know, our force is pretty good with that, right?

Yes.

The talent managers up there that do the assignments, you know, it's not like they're throwing darts at the wall. They're looking, they're matching previous assignments where you need, you know, platoon sergeant time, or we'll call it key and developmental time.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like I tell myself, we do serve at the pleasure of the Navy. So now let me ask you this, CSM. How do you identify high potential leaders early?

Well, results matter, right? No matter at what echelon you're at. The other thing, you know, with the Army is, or even the Joint Force, right? You know, this is serious business, right? What we do is complicated, right? The ability to fail, fail fast and learn from it. You know, when you find a guy or a gal that's resilient, intellectually curious, fit, disciplined, you know, well-trained doing, doing those things. Right. I mean, that's where you can look at, depending upon what level you're, you're, you know, team leader, high potential is different than, you know, squad leader, platoon sergeant, you know, first sergeant, command sergeant major, you know, those types of things. Right. Folks that are generally interested, right. Love of the profession. Because again, you gotta, you gotta love soldiering and you gotta have a, you know, a love of soldiers, right? Because this is a, this is a profession. It's not a job. It's not 9 to 5, right? So you, you have got to be vested in that. And I think you can, you can look at folks and say, hey, you know, Bob has a little bit more, Bob gives a little bit more than, than maybe Schmidt, right? So he's, he's probably a little bit more of a high performer and I'll invest a little bit more time.

Now, once you become a Sergeant, I think that's a pretty big deal. So for a first-time Platoon or Section Sergeant, for the Navy, that would be Lead Petty Officer, what type of mindset should they gain as they start the job for the very first time? Like when you go from being like an individual contributor to now becoming, you know, a leader of other soldiers?

Yeah, well, I mean, It's in my mind, that's an easy mantra that, that probably hasn't changed in 32 years.

Right.

I wanna solve my boss's problems before he has to get involved. Right. So whether that's a, a team leader to a squad leader, squad to platoon, right. How, how do I fit in and, and, and how am I contributing to this? You know, you can say organization, but echelon.

Yes.

Team, squad, platoon, company, battalion, a division. Right. Because the sum of all those organizational contributions will make up the success of, of the larger organization at scale.

Yes. Wow. Basically, being proactive makes a big difference. I definitely agree to that. Now, what about culture, discipline, and standards? The military is definitely well known for that. How do you enforce standards without losing compassion?

Yep. Standards, you know, first off, you got to model and emulate them, right? You got to be in accordance with them before you start enforcing them on everybody. We are a standards-based organization, and the first time you walk by a mistake, you just set the new standard, right? That's not something Schmidt made up. That's, that's an old mantra, but it holds true, right? So you correct the deficiency, right? If it's a training deficiency, then there's retraining that's out there. If it's a standards and discipline where, you know, someone's out of uniform, you can correct the deficiency in a tactful manner. You don't have to be, you know, a You have to, you know, be a— I won't use the explicit— if you don't have to be nasty about it, just let them know what the standard is, how they're not in accordance with the standard, correct the standard, and then move out, right? Ensure that it's done.

But one thing I've heard a lot, especially from enlisted folks and junior officers, you know, how do you balance everything, right? Mission accomplishment, your own well-being, and then family. And some of them also go to a school. What, what is your answer, CSM? Life-work balance.

Uh, I'm, I gotta, I gotta, I need, I need retraining on that. I'll tell you that much, right? If someone has the answer to that out there, you know, they've solved the million-dollar question for the Army. Um, I mean, you gotta, you gotta weight the main effort, you know. And, and, you know, I'll say, I'll use my family, right? I mean, uh, my boss says this all the time, but it's true, you know. I came from a military background, so I've been in the system 53 years, right? So from the time I was born to time I got out of high school to where I'm at now. So that piece, you gotta be vested in, your family's gotta be vested in it too. So, you know, for all the times that I've probably neglected my wife and daughters for, you know, the mistress, which in this case is the Army, my wife's been there to pick up the slack, right? So you gotta, you gotta have a good family. I mean, and then, you know, in my case, you kind of gotta try to make up for it where you can. If you have the ability to, you know, be a leader that can let their people go, then, then get them out of there on this time. Look for opportunities to compensate them for where it's at, because there'll be plenty of time where you won't have the ability, whether they're long exercises, whether they're deployments, whether they're, you know, training exercises in the field. So you can look for small ways to reward that stuff. But, but again, I mean, at the end of the day, when When folks say, you know, people or people first or taking care of soldiers, tough realistic training and those types of things are taking care of soldiers, right? Because the last thing you want to do is, is, you know, be responsible for the unthinkable on your watch. If it happens, don't make it because, you know, you let everybody go at 1 o'clock versus working them, you know, until the standard was met.

Yes. Wow. Okay. Let's, let's talk about legacy and wisdom, especially at your rank. I know a lot of enlisted look up to you, but if— and I believe junior officers as well— but if you could sit down with every E-5 and O-2 and senior IC, uh, like individual contributor, let's say, tomorrow, what is one message that you would deliver?

Yeah, so I'm a slow learner, and it took me a long time, uh, to do this, uh, to learn this, I should say. What we do is, is it's a serious business, right? Um, but don't take yourself too serious. Um, my wife says I'm serious about being serious. So, um, and I didn't make that up. Uh, what I tell you is don't forget to have fun as you go along. Um, you know, again, this is, uh, as I look back at going on 33 years now, this is, this is a great lifestyle. And I missed, I missed some, I missed some you know, the ability to have fun, right? Because everything was always, always serious about being serious. So my wife had to teach me that, you know, later in life.

Yeah, I think that is important. I guess that brings some balance, right? We're talking about life-work balance, because at times in the military we go like 100 miles an hour and there is just no time to think or really undo anything else. But, uh, everybody talks about servant leadership. What does that mean at the Command Sergeant Major level? Being a servant.

Yeah. Servant leadership, you know, that is, you know, same thing we talked about with being selfless. You know, I think, you know, at the end of the day, you want to boil it down to, you know, intrinsic actions, right? You are getting satisfaction because the organization, right? It's inside. It's not tangible. It's not any of the other things that you can measure, right? It's, I am satisfied with the work I'm doing because the organization is actually getting better, doing better every day.

So is there maybe a leadership principle you may have changed your mind about, let's say, over the last 10 years or so? You used to believe one thing and now you believe something more nuanced or different?

I wouldn't say so. I mean, in the Army we use, you know, it's the acronym leadership, but it's loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and personal courage. And Sometimes when we do these, people ask you which one's the most important. They're all important. They're all interlinked in my mind because it's those types of principles or we use a noncommissioned officer creed. It's more than just reciting the NCO creed when you get inducted as a noncommissioned officer. It's living the creed daily, your two basic responsibilities. Mission accomplishment and welfare of your soldiers. How, how can I balance out the needs of those two? Because you can't, you can't get, you can't get one without the other. You can't get the mission done without your soldiers, right? So, yes, those things to me, I think, are guiding principles, right? When you think about servant leadership, intrinsic value, selfless service, whatever they may be. And, and the Army got it right with that.

Wow, that is very powerful. It really sounds simple, but I feel like It is so powerful though. I guess the difference is in the execution, isn't it, Sergeant Major?

Oh yeah.

Wow.

I mean, everything sounds simple until you move into the execution, right? And then you got, yeah, you know, your branch plans and sequels that are going to drive you in a different way. But sure, but that's where the training and education comes in, right? I mean, we plan, you know, we plan off the base order, and then if, if that's not working, then, you know, you got to be You got to be nimble and flexible enough to adjust in order to get done what needs to happen.

Doesn't that also take a certain measure of humility?

I think so, yeah, yeah, I think so, man.

Uh, being a Command Sergeant Major, that's a very, very, very big deal. No, my dream was to become a senior officer, making O-5, Commander for the Navy or Lieutenant Colonel for the other branches. But it's like, man, I've finally arrived, but, uh, Yeah, my wife had to sit me down and say, okay, okay, congratulations, but that's enough. Yeah, and it's just such an awesome responsibility. I'm so in awe of all of the people who raise their hand and who voluntarily serve in any branch of the US military. Of course, I prefer the Navy better than the Army, but yeah, any branch, right? It's just amazing. And they say it's only what, 2%, I think, of the US population actually volunteer to serve. But, uh, man, what an adventure. So as, as we are ending the podcast, I'd like to ask— one of my mentors told me, right, rank is rented but trust is earned. So eventually you will have to hang up your uniform, whether you like it or not, either by choice you retire, or the army is just gonna kick you out. Okay, it is, it is time. Thank you for your service. Goodbye now. What do you hope soldiers say about you, how you led?

You know, I think, you know, even now, you know, where I operate at, most, most of the soldiers that you would say is just a picture on the wall, which, which is fine. I think if, you know, some of the folks that, that, you know, I've helped mentor or coach along the way, you know, at least remember a few things that, that I've done. 'Cause as we talked about earlier, you always wanna build a bench and you wanna be building your replacement, right?

Yes.

At whatever echelon that is, because again, like you pointed out, we're all replaceable, right? Humility's very important. Don't get lost in your own museum as you go along the way. And you know—

Say that again.

Don't get lost. So this is actually, I stole this from a former SEAC named John Wayne Troxell, right? He always uses this saying, "Don't get lost in your museum along the way." Wow.

It's powerful.

I can't claim credit for it, but it's pretty smart when you think about it. You were just referencing humility. Yes.

I think the first time I used this, I said, "I'm going to give you credit." The second time, I'm going to take credit. That's so good.

Well, I threw the disclaimer out. We're excited on there. I don't want to get complicated. But the point is, legacy, I don't know that you'll remember Schmidt, right? But, you know, you know, the folks that have gone along, if they take the same— they don't have the same approach. None of us ever will. Right. But, you know, build your bench, have a true caring and, you know, love of soldiering and soldiers, you know, those types of things that we talked about, then that's success to me. The environment's always going to change. But the good news is you pointed out that, you know, whether it's 2%, 1%, whatever the data or the digit is, you know, our Army, and I'll say our joint force is a great, you know, snapshot and segment of our society as a whole, right? And, and the soldiers that I get to interact with, we're all right, we're in a good spot, right? We get, we get some, we get some great folks. We have the world's greatest fighting force. So that I'm proud to be a part of.

Oh, yeah. All right. So one book that you recommend, you recommend this one. Why should my audience read Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking.

Yeah, so I just started reading that. My boss recommended that to me. We were having a conversation when we were traveling. So, so first off, depending upon if you're self-aware— some people are, some people aren't. There's personality tests out there. Some people even, they don't, whatever. But you know, if you're introverted, you can learn a lot about yourself, right? Even as an adult. If you're not, right, and you're one of the others, you can learn a lot about, you know, other folks and They're, they're, they're, you know, the way they interact, the way they operate, the way they do different things, right? So I think, I think the book interests me and I haven't finished it yet. I picked it up. I'm probably maybe 10 or 12 pages into it. But it's got me, right? Because I see some things in there that remind me of myself, you know, lifelong learning is good and some other things that may not. But so I think you should read it personally. I don't have stock in the book or anything. It interests me because you know, A, you can learn about yourself, or you can learn about your workforce and some others, right? And then, as we talked about this being a human endeavor, that's the best way you figure out, you know, what's making people tick.

I really hope, Sergeant Major, you are going to take the time to write a best-selling book. I think we need to read your story, get your wisdom and everything you have learned. It's just amazing. And I really, really feel like every senior officer in the military should write a book on their way to retirement because There is so much that we'll learn just by being present. It's unbelievable. Is there maybe a habit every leader must master? One habit.

I'd say, you know, take some time for yourself, you know, at the end of the day to reflect, you know. I mean, in the morning it's PT. So if you go, you know, for me, for us, it's PT, right? Whether you're going on a run, those are, you know, times that you can gather your thoughts, right? And prepare for the day. Um, the other thing is that, you know, at night, you know, I take time and, you know, I'll rewind the day in my mind. A lot of people may have that. I got a messy mind, so I gotta go back through and reorganize it. Um, so take, take a few minutes for yourself, right? You know, um, health's important, physical, mental, and emotional health is, is all good, right? And take a few moments each day, whether that's to work your nasty body or, or to decompress your mind at the end. And reset for the next day's adventures.

And if I may ask, what do you do to recharge yourself? You give so much to your country and to the Army. How do you refill the battery?

My family. Right now is my daughter's softball, right? So that's playing travel ball. You know, she plays varsity softball for high school, but on the off time, she does travel ball, right? So it's really my daughter's, you know, that's what me and my, you know, because I get to spend time with my wife. Spend time with my daughter.

So it's beautiful.

Any chance I get like that, that's, that's really, you know, I'm pretty, I'm pretty boring guy. I work and I go home to my, to my family. I don't really have any hobbies anymore. I'll have to rediscover myself when I retire, but my family recharges me.

Now, is there a leadership trait that you believe you should never ever compromise on? One leadership trait you will always—

Integrity.

Yes. What about a mistake that young leaders keep repeating, whether enlisted or junior officer?

Well, I don't know about one mistake, right? But, but I think again, you know, there are folks out there that will keep trying to do the same thing over and over again and accept, uh, you know, expect a different result. And that's, you know, that's, that's the definition of insanity, right? So, um, be cognizant enough to know that doing the same thing over and over again is not going to produce a different result, right? Look, look for ways, creative ways to to modify your approach to whatever problem set you're having. There's plenty of mistakes people make out there, but the beauty of them is if you learn from them, then you're 1% better every day.

True, and I think one big shortcut to learning is really having mentorship. That really makes a huge, huge difference. Just a philosophical question, do you— like in the Navy, for example, in my designation, I am a 18 to 20 IP officers. I remember when I joined in 2007, they kind of forced us to be mentored. Like, they would select a mentor for each one of the new recruits, and I think for the most time it worked. But generally speaking, I like to choose my mentor myself just to see how we interact and if we like each other, if we have any rapport or whatever. Do you have a preference whether it's forced mentorship or ones that kind of happens organically, naturally?

Does it happen? Yeah, I think it, I think it happens both, both ways. Right.

Okay.

The term forced, uh, is, is the Army because, you know, coaching, teaching, and mentoring are a part of a noncommissioned officer's implied tasks out there.

Yes.

Right. So that, that battalion sergeant major out there should be coached, teaching, and mentoring, uh, two levels down. Right? So down to the platoon sergeant level and vice versa, all the way down. Now I got mentors, you know, that, that are outside of, you know, the chain of command that have, you know, lots of them, right, that have all helped build, um, who I am, right? So I think it, I think it happens both ways.

Um, and is there one word that would define leadership for you or your leadership philosophy? One word.

I go back to the acronym. I think loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and personal courage. It's not one word, it's one acronym.

Yes. I love that.

I think if you stick to those, loyalty, when you start to dissect those, loyalty is not to the man, it's to the organization. Integrity, what's the one thing to never compromise? Personal courage. I think if you take all of those things and you truly believe in them,. And, you know, again, for the noncommissioned officers, you take your creed seriously, right? It's going to help you. It's a compass to make sure you don't come off azimuth, right, and get lost along the way.

Powerful. Okay, I'm going to ask you a pretty tough question, if I may. I know I was very lucky to be commanding officer, but I always, always relied on my senior enlisted leader or advisor, maybe because I was enlisted before, but I've seen some commanders who are pretty strong-willed, but ultimately the commander is the one who has the ultimate responsibility, right, for the unit and the mission. So my question for you is, how should senior enlisted leaders advise strong-willed commanders, especially when they may be making the wrong decision for your junior enlisted?

Yeah, well, and you get this all the time. I mean, it's a good question. But you, you've answered, you know, you kind of answered it. There is only one commander. That's he or she, right? That's there. They are the commander. You are there to help complement them, right? So when, when asked, one of your big jobs as a Command Sergeant Major is to advise, you know, so your opinion, you know, those commanders will ask your opinion, give your honest, open opinion, right? In a tactful manner. As long as what they're doing is not illegal or moral and ethical, you execute. I mean, they are the commander. They may take what you say, and that's fine. Hey, that's a great idea, Sergeant Major. Or, okay, I heard what you have to say, but I'm going to go a different route. It doesn't make it wrong, right? The, the difference is, and, and you get this as we talked about with mentoring, you know, there'll be some command sergeant major, or we'll just use people in general. My boss is— well, the problem's yours, Sergeant Major, because they're the boss. And if it's not illegal and moral and ethical Right. And you've given your opinion, then you move out and you support to the best of your ability.

Powerful. Now, another question I have for you, CSM, is what does resilience look like in a force that has been at war for over two decades? I know after 9/11, I know some, some people who've been deployed 3, 4, or 5 times, whereas 20 years prior to that, hardly people got deployed once. I actually know some sailors who retired after 20 years. They've never been to a single deployment. And after 9/11, of course, that was a a brand new world. What does resilience look like in those?

So I think, you know, as you look for resilience, you know, I look at it in different buckets, right? You know, you look for physical resilience, you look for mental resilience, emotional. If you're a pious individual, then there's spiritual resilience. There's all kinds of ways to build resilience, right? Looking at the character and personalities of, you know, whichever individual we are talking about.

Makes sense.

Resilience looks different to everybody, right? But I, but I think if you boil it down to, hey, look, take care of your body, you know, keep your mind sharp, keep your emotions sharp, right? You know, if you are a pious person and you look to, to religion and those things, that is fine too, right? There is spiritual resiliency. There is all kinds of ways to stay resilient. I think you just got to put a little more thought into it, right? It's hard to define or to put a metric.

Makes, makes sense. Uh, is there something you do to prevent burnout, especially, you know, at the senior level with all of the responsibilities you have?

Well, again, you know, you got to stay physically active. You know, I like to read, lifelong learner, spend time with my family. You know, I don't You know, have any, have any really, I'm pretty boring like I said, don't really have any of my own hobbies because my children's hobbies are mine, but, but again that, that, you know, that's what makes me happy.

Yes.

So when I have, you know, the off time, if I get a, I get a couple days on the weekend, you know, that's good time spending with my family, however that may be.

Now in the more than 30+ years experience you've had serving our country, is there maybe an area where you feel like junior enlisted and junior officer may not be paying much attention to? Is there something we are not preparing them for in the world of tomorrow, you think, or something that should just, uh, be more proactive?

Well, yeah, I would just say, I mean, especially in the age of today, as we talk about, you know, transformation, you know, artificial intelligence, drones, all these things, right? Embrace technology, embrace change, go with it, right? But The piece to being able to go back from, you know, a digital to an analog, you know, don't forget the basics as you go along the way with your training. You know, I use the Army analogy, right?

Yes.

Because, you know, the compass is more than just a compass. A compass helps you find your way. The compass is also a weapon, right? And if you don't teach them how to call for fire with that, if you don't teach them how to do a range card or a section-sector sketch or an indirect fire plan, I mean, the compass does a lot of things for you. But it boils it back down to, well, I got a GPS, I don't really need the compass. That's for you.

Yes. Yes.

So be brilliant at the basics. You know, again, I defined them as shoot, move, communicate, medicate, fitness, and field craft. Those things are very important. Yes. Right. And then the end state for, you know, fit, disciplined, well-trained non-commissioned officers that can withstand the rigors of large-scale combat operations in a multi-domain environment. That would be—

wow—

my piece of advice is embrace technology, go with transformation, but don't forget that the digital analog transformation and why that's important on today's battlefield or in today's day and age.

Yeah, I guess the last question I am going to ask you, CSM, is how should senior enlisted leaders think about artificial intelligence enabled warfare? Because the world of warfare is changing quite a bit?

Yeah, well, I mean, A, you got to read, right? You got to read, read, read, follow the conversation, learn how to do it, embrace it. I mean, even academia, you know, ChatGPT or whatever it is, having a problem. So you can't stop it, right? So how do you learn about it? You know, how can you leverage it, right, as a multiplier, right? Those types of things. But again, you know, Don't forget, ChatGPT may be able to write your paper, but you know, if it goes down, don't, don't forget you still got to know how to do a 5-paragraph essay.

So true, so true. Well, as we come to, uh, toward the end of, of the, uh, podcast, is there anything that my audience can do to add value back to you?

Well, you know, if you're— again, if the audience is intellectually curious, you know, follow the Army of the Pacific. Um, your Army out here, your theater Army, is doing a lot of great things across the PACOM region., you know, and, you know, support us from afar. See, interesting theater no matter what, right? Um, you know, we have the coldest regions out to the hottest. We go from Alaska all the way out to the atolls of Kwajalein.

Wow.

We got one international time zone, I think it's 15 now, 15 languages, uh, or I'm sorry, 15 time zones, 3,000 different languages. So when you think, and you know None of it's landlocked. So when you think about PACOM in general out there, it's a pretty interesting place, different cultures, right? So lots of good things happening out here.

Wow. Now, is there a question I should have asked you I didn't get a chance to ask?

I should have asked you, Bob, what is something I don't know about you?

I don't know.

Maybe the audience doesn't know about you.

Yeah, I've been playing the piano since I was about 7 years old. That's one of my professional pianos there. I started with playing classical music and reading notes, and eventually I got into gospel, jazz, blues, and all of that. So I, I can play by ear too. Uh, yeah, that's probably something most people may not know, and that's, that's part of the way I kind of recharge myself, just play music.

Very, very good. Well, uh, the only thing, you know, I don't really have— it's not really a question, but I guess, you know, since it's the close, I'll tell you, you know, that's all. The Army, the Army, as we talked about, gave me, you know, everything that I was lacking as a young kid. Um, and I, and I tell this story, and I've, you know, a few times out, and I couldn't make this up on a great day. When I was a young kid, you know, my dad, my dad was stationed at Minot Air Force Base. My, my family is a family of dirt farmers from, uh, Gackle, North Dakota, uh, out there. And we used to go home on the weekends and, and work the farm, and, you know, in the summers and those different things. So I grew up— my grandfather was a rifle platoon sergeant in World World War II out in the Pacific. So I grew up looking at his uniform and those types of things. You'd think about, you know, the young man sees, sees, you know, the things that he brought home from war. What I didn't realize and what I didn't know until many years later is you see that behind there. Yeah, that was my grandfather's last patch in World War II, right? So that's the patch that I grew up staring at. So to be able to, you know, serve as the Command Sergeant Major of the United States Army Pacific, you know, there is no greater honor for me. So I figured you didn't ask the question, but I didn't have a chance to really share that story. And I do like to tell it because that's powerful.

Wow.

Amazing. You said you had daughters. Any of them going to join the Army?

I don't know.

Right now I have one in college. She goes to university. University of Hawaii, and I have another one that is, uh, going to be a senior this year. I, I won't force them into the military, you know, but just like, just like, you know, I, I didn't join the Army directly. I was, I was actually, you know, uh, uh, Peter Piper pizza cook. I was cooking pizzas for a while and, you know, got tired of my face being burnt by the pizza oven, so I said there's got to be a better way to make a buck in it, you know.

Yes.

I need some discipline and the Army has the tools that I need, right? So we'll see where they end up.

It's also very interesting how we choose the military for all kinds of different reasons and we also stay for all kinds of other different reasons, but it definitely has been, I don't know, a privilege and an honor to serve in uniform in the United States of America. I believe the best country in the world, period. So I will give you the last word, CSM. We are pretty much done here. Thank you so much for taking the time. To talk to us and mentor all of the enlisted and junior officers who follow this podcast. Really, really appreciate that. Any last words you may have?

Yeah, no, I'll tell you, you know, thanks, uh, thanks for having me on, Bob, and allowing me to spend a few moments with you and your audience out there. I tell you, you know, the Army's 251 years old, right? And we're celebrating our 250. So, you know, happy birthday to everybody. Um, have a great Fourth of July out there. You know, as far as military service, or I'll say for the Army myself, specifically, best job I ever had. And I plagiarized that too. That's from a movie. But it's so true, just like don't get lost in your own museum, right?

Thank you so much. CSM Jason Smith, everyone. Thank you, sir.

Thanks, Bob.

All right, everybody, please follow the CSM on LinkedIn, and his LinkedIn Page is very easy to find, uh, linkedin.com in Jason Schmidt Leadership. It's a great, uh, moniker. All right, so that's all we have planned for today. I'm gonna have more interviews tomorrow and I will let you guys know about it. I don't think I have any interviews on Saturday. I think I will come back and we're gonna go back to the Book of Proverbs. Not a religious broadcast, we're going to be talking about ancient wisdom and leadership lesson from the Book of Proverbs chapter 26. It's really amazing to me, a book written more than 2,000 years ago, how those principles, those leadership lessons are still applicable today in the age of artificial intelligence. All right, that's it for now. Thank you so much for watching and see you tomorrow.

Bye.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.