S5:E15🎙️ LIVE with CDR Erica Dobbs, USN (Ret.)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple, to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to Welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ. So my name is Erica Dobbs and I'm the CEO of Dobbs Defense Solutions. Our companies support the intelligence community, but we also support federal civilian agencies as well. We do traditional IT, and then we lose a lot of software tools that help safeguard America. So I started my business as a means to provide an avenue for people who look like me, and what I mean by that is women and veterans. I wanted to give them a safe place to be able to go to work where they weren't judged because of their gender, age, or ethnicity, and so I decided to create jobs, and I think I've created a family that's a rainbow. So I think the diversity in small businesses is really unique because when you look at America, a lot of the technology that was derived in America, it came from minorities. I think it's important for America to accept us because we are the innovators and we are the ones that make a difference in America. It's not the other companies, it's us, and we belong. What's important to me is building a generation of STEM people. That look like me and you. I forgo my salary in order to build a legacy for people that look like you and I. I bring high school kids in, I bring in kids from colleges and universities, and we create a sandbox for them to actually practice in, to learn STEM, to be free to actually explore and break things. It validates them. The challenges are always going to be your ethnicity and your gender, right? So all of my challenges I use them as my vitamin. Like, they energize me to go fight harder for people that look like me. So it's my job to make sure that the dream that I have put in place for all of us is successful. I started out in the Navy at the bottom of the ranks. So I started out in the Navy as an enlisted E-1, which means that you have nothing. And I worked my way up the ranks to E-7, What I did learn from the Navy is never give up, never give up the ship, keep fighting because you will end with positive results. One thing that I got from the Navy that actually helped me as a CEO is leadership. And so the Navy started me out on how to be a leader. I love the SBA because I utilized their resources when I first started my business. I used the SCORE program, I used the counselors. I love that. I use the Apex, the PTACs. I've used all of those resources. I started my company with a jar of spare change. I went to the bank with $100 and I started Dobbs Event Solutions. Today I can tell you that I bootstrapped it without those bankers that told me no, and we cleared last year at $8.2 million. We won the SBA Maryland Veteran Company of the Year. We're soaring. We're soaring.

All right, everyone. I am so grateful today. We have a very special guest, really a sister in arms, and I'm going to be introducing her in just a moment. But before we get started, I'm reminded of our moment of gratitude. As you know, every time we meet, we want to take just a moment to be grateful every single day, especially because in the military, about 21 service members commit suicide every single day. And here we believe it's impossible to be suicidal and ungrateful at the very same time. So if you would go ahead and close your eyes and maybe put yourself in your happy place, take a deep breath. Calm down your nervous system and think about one thing you are grateful for right now. And today I am really grateful for all of the veterans, those who have come before us, the people whose shoulder I stand on, all of the men and women, people of color and people who've decided, I love America and I'm going to put my life on the line for this country. And I have such a huge debt of gratitude for all of those people. And one of those people is going to be on the stage with me in just a few moments. So let us know what you are grateful for, type it in the comment, and let me see if I can properly introduce our guest today. So I am really excited because the life of the commander, retired commander now, I'm gonna be introducing is so much parallel to my own. So she's a former US Navy Commander O-5, and again, only 4% of sailors who join the Navy end up at the rank of O5 or above. So that's a huge, huge achievement. That's what my current rank is in the Navy right now. But she started as an E1, Seaman Recruit, and I did too, 21 years ago. That's the very bottom. So pretty much everybody outranks you in the Navy at that rank. She went from E1 to O5, but most importantly, and I'm gonna ask her about this, she was a Chief, E7, Senior Enlisted. And to me, going from E7 to O1, is a huge, huge demotion because E-7, they do mentor junior officers. I was mentored by E-7 from '01 to '04. So we're going to talk a little bit more, more about, about that. But she is a true Mustang. So Commander, now retired, Erica Dobbs is the founder also and CEO of Dobbs Defense Solutions, a nationally recognized voice in cybersecurity, veteran entrepreneurship, and crisis leadership. She's a boardroom-ready, boardroom-ready governance as well. So her leadership has been forged on nuclear aircraft career in Joint Cyber Command and now in the CSUD, so where failure is never an option and people are always, always the mission. So ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Commander Erika Dove. How are you doing today, Commander?

I am doing wonderful. Thank you for this time to be with you today.

Absolutely. We are so grateful that you are here. Maybe To get started, uh, what are you grateful for today?

Hey, this morning I'm just grateful for being able to, um, actually, you know, spend time with you before the session. You know, I look at, um, how so much similarities that we have in, in the fact that we, we survived the journey. And so I'm just grateful for my time, you know, that I have been, uh, the CEO of Bob Fabien Zinga Solutions and the the wonderful employees that I have today that support my dream and my vision. So, you know, I'm just giving thanks for that.

That is so amazing. And by the way, we have Abby Gonzalez, great human being, great leader. So proud of you, Erika. And Abby, let us know where you are coming from, what city, what state. And also, if you have a question for Commander Dobbs, please type it in the comment. We also have Akeem Bristow, great leader, and I'm looking forward to working for her again. Wow. Thank you so much. You've got a lot of fans out there. We also have Trent Tucker, very commendable, Erica. All right, please let us know where you're coming from, what you're grateful for, and please ask a question to the commander. Okay, one more. Man, this is gonna be the most interactive session. I am grateful for leaders like Erica Dobbs and to be listening in this morning. That's Miriam Brisken, hi. And by the way, I guess I can call you Erica since we are both commander, but I have so much respect for you because I definitely stand on your shoulder. You are one of the very first IP officer Information Professional, we later became Information Warfare, which is what I am now. But it's pretty amazing how the Navy has evolved and how the next generation of sailors will be standing on the shoulders of us and those who came before us. So again, thank you for your service. And by the way, Commander, part of the reason why I love reading this feedback is I think we said in the green room, right, I started this about 5 years ago. And my first episode, it was an episode of one person only, me, myself, and I. That's the only person who was listening. So now I have a bigger audience, up to 64,000 people in the US and around the world. And when they have something to say, I want to hear it. So there's another one, Abi from Bowie, Maryland. Okay, fantastic. And Melody, outstanding leader and role model. Okay, I'm going to have to stop for now. We're gonna get started, but you have raving fans out there, Commander Dobbs. So let me ask you this: what is something about you that most people may not know?

Wow, that's a loaded question. So I'm just gonna— I'm just gonna give you something very simple. Most people are not aware that I'm a grandmother. So I'm a grandmother of 3. My oldest grandchild will be, um, 16 this year. So I have a 16-year-old grandson and a granddaughter and another grandson, but I am a grandmother of 3.

Congratulations. I have two daughters. The eldest one, I guess she's 24 now. She already got her degree. I can't believe I was already married at her age, but it looks like it's kind of different now. I think I shouldn't be a grandfather until she's at least 50 or something. But anyway, that's really beautiful. There's nothing more important than family. All right, so let's talk about your journey a little bit, kind of like I said in the introduction. I guess we both understand we went from E-1 to O-5, but yours was very particular because you become an E-7, which is like senior enlisted rank. When I was in boot camp, that's when I told myself before I retired from the Navy, one of two things are going to happen. I become a senior enlisted E-7 or above or a commander O-5 and above. It just happened I had an opportunity to become an officer. But why in the world did you move from E-7 to O-1? That's a huge demotion, is it not?

Well, actually, my story is kind of unique because The year that I, um, selected for Chief Petty Officer is the same year that I selected for the Limited Duty Officer Program. So I actually promoted for both at the same time. I actually— and I applied for the program when I was an E-6. So as an E-6 Petty Officer, I was actually selected for the Limited Duty Officer Program. And so, um, it was just a great year for me because my name came out on both lists. And so I was a Navy Chief for a year, um, before I actually pinned on. So I had the experience of being in the GOAT locker for a year as an RMC. So, you know, like, people don't even realize RMC was around, you know, but I was an old school radio man. And then so right before commission, I had to convert over to IT. So I was an ITC for like 1 month before I became an LDL.

Yeah, I believe I was enlisted when that conversion happened from RM to IT. Wow, congratulations, because being in the GOAT locker, that's a huge, huge, huge achievement because the truth is our chief, truly run the Navy. They are the anchor. So the anchor they wear on the collar really, really means something. But, uh, wow, that is amazing.

I felt the pain though, I will tell you the difference. If I may, I can share a quick story. Um, so I'm in LDO, um, school down in Pensacola, Florida, and I get some sand in my eye during training. I go to medical I'm a little, you know, butter bar instant. I go to medical and another chief walk in at the same time. So I'm like, I forgot that I'm no longer a chief. And I'm like trying to get service and they're like, ma'am, you can go sit down over there. The chief walk in, they go, hey chief, what can we do for you? What's going on here?

Yeah.

So I learned that, um, I left the mess to join the O club, but, um, You know, it was funny because I was so accustomed to being taken care of as the chief because, you know, the chief is the backbone of the Navy. And so I left from being a part of the backbone of the Navy to the old community. So I experienced it that day when I had to sit and wait like everybody else to get service as opposed to getting that chief treatment.

Yes.

Yes.

Now I'm hoping that when you went from chief to ensign, you changed command, right? You didn't stay at the same place, did you?

Yeah, I changed commands. I went— my first duty station as a Navy chief was— well, my first duty station as a Navy officer was at NCMS.

No, hold on.

Okay. Big Ten Plant, Washington, D.C. Yeah.

That is wonderful because I was only an E-4. I mean, I really was proud to finally become a petty officer, but the first year or so I was still in the same command. So my chiefs and people in my unit, they didn't know how to handle me because yesterday I was an E-4 and now I am an O-1. And I know literally technically out, out of them. It was kind of strange. So I, I got myself ordered some somewhere else, and no, I was able to start over again. But no, that's, that's, that's really truly a, uh, a, uh, a huge, huge achievement. Bravo for that.

So yeah, let me correct that. My first duty station was Nick Tam's Land. You know, that's what happens when you've been in the military for 36 years, hands run together. So my first duty station was Nick Tam's Land down in Norfolk, Virginia. That was my first E-1 command.

But it was different than your chief command, right?

My chief command was NATO.

So I was like, yeah, yeah. Because it's— I guess it is, it is, it is just human to see somebody just, you know, move rank like that. It's pretty amazing. So you began your career as an E-1, lowest rank in the military. You retire as a commander, a senior officer in the most powerful navy in the world. So what leadership lesson could you only learn by coming up through the enlisted ranks before becoming an officer? And before you answer that, I'm going to ask, if you had your uniform on, I would see the Good Conduct Medal on your chest, right?

Of course.

Of course. That's one medal I am especially proud of. Is there a medal that you have that you are most proud of, of all of the awards you've won for what you are? Outstanding career in the Navy?

Yeah, I think my Meritorious Achievement Medal that I received on my— you know, I received that because of my leadership for operating in a different environment that, yes, of course, we can't talk about. But yes, I received it because of that. And so I was very proud to have a team that supported me during that era. And so getting that award because of what my team and I achieved. That one I cherish the most.

Man, that is, that is wonderful. Okay, so what leadership lesson did you learn through coming up the ranks from enlisted to officer?

So I learned a lot of lessons, to be honest with you. But the most important lesson that I learned is that no one follows an individual. They always follow a leader, right? And so you have to be a good leader. You know, everybody can run around and say that you're a leader, but you have to be a good leader in order for you to have someone to want to follow you. Um, and I will tell you that, um, the other thing that I learned is that oftentimes, for me, this is just Erica, I realized later on that I didn't even believe that I was a leader, but other people believed that I was a leader. So I go back to when I was in boot camp, and, you know, coming in the Navy as a 19-year-old kid and getting off that bus and going to my, you know, my company And then someone said, oh, you're the section leader. And I'm like, I'm a 19-year-old kid. I'm like, section leader of what? And so they, you know, they appointed me to be the section leader of, you know, and then that time, you know, that's like 8 to 12 people. And I'm like, I'm just trying to survive myself. But I will tell you that what's amazing is when other people see the leader in you before you see it in yourself. And so that's what happened for me in the Navy, is that the people around me i.e., Navy Chiefs and senior enlisted leaders, they saw the leader in me before I even knew that I was that leader. And so that, that's the lesson that I take on with me today. And the best part about that is, um, you think about starting out in the Navy as an E-1, and your boot camp, or, you know, the RCPO for you in boot camp decides you're a leader. And then let's go forward to when I actually commissioned as a Navy ensign. Yes, I saw that same individual at my first duty station at Nick Tam's land, and at that time she was a Navy chief still. And she said, I knew you would be where you are today. So it's amazing when you have someone that see a leader in you when you're a 19-year-old kid, and then as you progress in your career and you become a naval officer and you have the, um, You know, I— it was just like a fluke accident, but you have the opportunity to see the person that saw the leader in you so you can say thank you to them.

Wow.

So I was afforded that opportunity in the early 2000s.

Yeah, that is really amazing. In my experience, it looks like the Navy, really the military in general, is a leadership school, right? That's really what, what we do. We just happen to have a bunch of hardware and weapons and things, but It's really all about leadership. I remember when I became an officer, my sea daddy told me, right, what we are, what location is to your set, leadership is to the Navy. And that was so true. And wow, wonderful. So when you look back then throughout your career, what moment most shaped how you define leadership today?

Wow, which moment?

Yes.

Yeah, um, you know, um, I'm gonna take you back to something that's more relevant to— I had to think about that. Um, that's most relevant to all of us. You know, when you started out your podcast, yes, is to give us a moment of silence, and so that reminded me of something. So I would say the most moment that did that for me was doing 9/11. So during 9/11, I was an incident on the watch floor at NCTS, um, Lant and Nick Tam's Lant, of course. And it was so chaotic all around me, and everybody was like, hey, what can we do to help? So you have everybody trying to come in to help us with, you know, managing communications. Now mind you, um, I'm trying to downplay it a little bit because we were in charge of the entire Atlantic fleet on that watch floor. You know, as a JTF watch officer, I was the, um, one in charge of the floor during that time on watch. And so what I actually got from that moment is that as a leader, I could act like chaos like everybody around me, or I could remain calm and allow my team to do their job like we've always practiced. And we did. And so because of my Naval training and because of those times in enlisted ranks having to deal with a lot of pressure but still surviving, and that, that CHEEPS training that I had, um, you know, been the opportunity to encounter, um, it helped me to be a strong leader that day in the midst of chaos. So you think about, we're managing all communications for the entire Atlantic Fleet, trying to make sure that, you know, anything dealing with cryptologic equipment, the President of the United States, all those people are taken care of. And so instead of having a chaotic watch floor, everybody's like, what can we do to help you guys? And the first thing I said to them is, you can continue to do business as usual and let us do our job.

That's really—

so my team and I, we did— we, we actually managed 12 hours of chaos.

Wow.

Even keel.

I can't imagine. I guess it's another thing we have in common. 9/11 is part of the reason why I decided to unjoin the Navy. But when I went to a recruiter the day after, I think they said it was one of the days where they had more volunteers than any other day in our nation. But at the time I was not a U.S. citizen. I didn't even have my green card yet, so I wasn't a permanent resident. So they pretty much asked me to go back, back then. But I told them I'll be back. So once I got my green card 3 years later, that's when I finally joined. But at least when I came back, I knew it was going to be either the Navy or the Air Force because the Army and the Marines, I felt like they were just too crazy for me. But anyway, and then also you talk about Nick Townsend. That's actually where I went. I was an ensign to get my qualification as an IP officer. So great, great command to be. And then many years later, I was the commanding officer across the street at the Global Network Operations Security Center, one of the sister commands of NICNAMS LAND. But wow, what a small world this is.

Small world.

So you've operated in joint high-tech environments, right? Leading across not just the Navy, but the Army, the Air Force, and the Marines. I guess now we have the Space Force also. And civilian too. So how did that kind of shape your leadership style?

So I had to change my whole way of thinking because, you know, Navy, we, we operate so differently. And I didn't realize that we had our own language, to be honest with you. So when I was immersed into the joint world, I will tell you that I had actually came— I got commissioned when I was in a NATO world. So I want you to think about that. So I'm coming from a coalition environment and then I go to a joint. So the coalition environment taught me how to work with partners who didn't even speak English, right, very well, but I still had to communicate with them to do my job. And so then going into the joint world, um, I had to learn the different ways of doing businesses with other— my other brothers and sisters in arms. And so, um, I'll tell you that I believe that as a leader today, that's what shaped me into being a great leader because I had to learn how to do their reporting. I had to learn how to mentor them and help them to have successful careers. And so, um, you know, I pride myself in saying that I, I remember, you know, just one story about when I was stationed at, um, U.S. Cyber Command, and I had an Army major that worked for me. At the time, he was an Army captain, and he was, you know, deemed a problem child. And they said, well, Erica, he's yours. And I was like, well, I'm a, I'm a naval officer. Why are you guys giving me this person? And they're like, hey, you're a leader. Leaders lead. So lead them. And so, um, so in my group, I had— I sometimes people would say I had the Island of Misfit Toys, but in the other people's eyes, that's what they were. But in my eyes, they were my dream team. And so I turned that island into a dream.

Wow, that's amazing.

And my Army captain got accepted into the Navy. Um, you know, he got accepted into the Navy, um, school in Monterey, California, you know, Navy Postgraduate School. That's what I was gonna say, Navy Postgraduate School. Um, first time that anybody in his career field had did that. So I'm like, okay, you gave me an island of misfit toys, but my person went and made history with the guys doing cybersecurity in that area.

That is really amazing. This is another funny story. I was a Lieutenant JAG, so I was on the USS Essex. So we were working with the Australian Navy and the Marine Corps. So it was joint coalition environment. And then somebody told me, hey, Captain So-and-so wants to talk to you. And I was very scared. I'm like, man, I am an O-2. This is going to be an O-6 Navy captain. And then come to find out it was the Army captain, Justin Oakley. I'm like, please stop doing that. You got me almost— I almost had a heart attack trying to prepare to see what in the world you wanted. It's pretty interesting when you are in that joint environment because our ranks don't exactly align.

Yeah, it stretches you. It stretches you in a big way because you have to learn how to keep them relevant. You got to keep them motivated. And it actually translates into being a CEO a lot of ways because you got to do the same thing for your employees.

That is really, really powerful. But then there was also another thing now, because right now I think I'm seeing more and more Blacks and women in the service, and I'm really grateful for that, especially when you started. Did you have any role model, any women in your field, or especially Black women that you could look up to?

In the Navy? Yes. No.

Wow.

So in my career field, it was all primarily Caucasian males. We didn't really have any females in my career field. So, um, I didn't have a role model to be— I hate to say it out loud, but I didn't have a female.

Wow, that, that is, uh, quite amazing because, you know, even especially in Silicon Valley, most, most of the time I am the one and only Black person in the room. Although I would say in the last 15 years or so that has changed, uh, quite a bit. I see more and more women, uh, into the cyber security field now. Like you, I'm so proud of being a Black female veteran and tech CEO. I think we need more and more of that. But it is pretty amazing the impact you make, but you pretty much become a trailblazer whether you like it or not. And they're all models for so many people who are going to be coming after you. That's why, you know, even when I was enlisted, you will see the picture right there of General Colin Powell. I've only met him once, but he's always been a model for me, right? Black men can become a 4-star general in this country, then, you know, there is hope for me too. So it's, uh, it is pretty amazing, uh, how you can use somebody, uh, who has a completely different path and really use them as a model and motivate you to attain greatness, uh, in your own field too. So, uh, again, thanks for all of the mentorship and all of the outstanding work you have done. So let's talk A little bit about leadership under pressure. So you have described leadership as bringing order to chaos. So that's definitely a, I guess, a regular Navy day, I would say. So what does calm leadership look like when everything is breaking at once?

You know, for me, it looks like calmness. Like, I'm not— if you know, if you really know who I am, you would know that I don't operate in chaos. So, and that's because that's what I've learned. I, I like to, um, use the analogy sometimes of, um, a show horse and a war horse, right? The show horse is all— to me, as a chaotic person, they're always trying to be seen. They're dancing and pouncing around, um, you know, doing that type of thing. But when you look at, um, The war whores, you know, we, we actually perform when it's loud, when it's chaotic. Um, we operate in the unpredictable and uncomfortable environments. But, um, to me, I think the military, my military background, um, and being a Mustang, it was like they rewarded us for being able to operate in that environment, like in the chaos. And so, um Today, to me, this is how I— I mean, how I lead is I lead with how I evaluate you as a person. Um, you know, I don't want you to show me all this drama. Just be you, right? And then to me, I think that it's important to just take away the noise and be authentic. You know, we lack that a lot. And so for me, in the midst of chaos, I'm gonna always be me, and I'm not gonna allow the situation to allow me to change from who I am as an individual. Because, you know, when you're operating chaos, you're apt to forget things, right? You're, you're almost apt to missteps, right? So I've been trained to operate in high-pressure environments. You know, when you think about being in a, on an active carrier, yes. Is chaotic all the time. And so you got to learn how to quiet the noise and just be true to yourself and more importantly, keep your team grounded so that you don't— because if it's life-threatening, you can't fail. So for me, in an environment that I'm in, I treat it as though life expectancy is there. And so when I do that, I calm the chaos and I stay calm. I hope that answers your question.

Absolutely. That is powerful because I think every leader should really strive to do that. You mentioned aircraft carrier. It's, uh, there is really nothing in the world like it. Of course, first time I was on an aircraft carrier, I got lost at least 3 or 4 times, but eventually I found my way around. But really, failure is not theoretical and it is immediate. And one thing that's very different between the military and the industry, when we do business, sometimes there could be loss of life, which people at Microsoft, IBM, Google, they don't have to worry about that. So I guess the question I have for you is, how should leaders train themselves to make decisions when information is incomplete and time is compressed?

When information is incomplete and time— like, you're talking like Navy.

Yeah, basically a typical Navy day. Yes.

I was like, so a typical military day. Yeah. I was like, wait a minute, I wasn't prepared, but I was like, what? Okay, so, um, I mean, for me, I've always— because I was a Navy striker, you know, going back to my early days in the military and not receiving formal training, um, going up the ranks and, and never being afforded the opportunity to go to A school or C school or, you know, any form of training. So you think about, um, a person going from E-1 to O-5 without formal training.

That's—

and you want to know, how do I deal with that in between? Um, I read, I dissect the situation, and I look at the, the highs, the lows, the shortfalls. You know, I completely, um, pull it apart, and then I look at what's the best solution. And then that's how I survive in it, because no matter what your training is, you still have to understand where you are, right? And so for me, I've always been someone to overperform in a lot of areas. And so for me, I would just completely evaluate the situation and look at, wow, you know, the highs and lows and which way you're going to survive.

And, and then of course, that is quite, uh, insightful because another one of your quotes which I used to advertise this episode, you, you said, regulate the room before you regulate the plan. I think that's so insightful. Can you unpack that for our audience. What do you mean about that, especially facing crisis, cyber incident, or organizational upheaval? Regulate the room.

Regulate the room. Yeah, that— and I think I already touched on a little bit where I talked about, um, with the 9/11 situation, you have to make sure that you train the way you fight, right? And so when you regulate the room, you're going to regulate it in the same fashion in which you've operated in the past. You know, like, if you operate in chaos, guess what? You're regulating in chaos. But if you, if you operate in calmness and you pull out the best in your people, then that's regulating the room to me. I'm always going to pull out the best in you because I'm not always the smartest person in the room. I need help. Yes, that's why you have other ones around you, right? So, yes. So what I mean about regulating the room is looking at where my talent is, looking at the people that I have in my ecosystem and how do I use you to actually make us better as a team? Because, you know, I don't operate as I operate as a team. So when I'm regularly in the room, I'm regularly in the room to say, okay, what can you do to help us succeed? And, and that's just my model.

Wow. So now as a tech CEO, and I've been living in Silicon Valley for the last, what, 11 years, uh, also, I think we do cybersecurity a little bit differently. I think we have different priorities in the military and in the industry, but you do see cybersecurity as a continuation of service, which is admirable. But what do civilian leaders in the industry kind of misunderstand most about cyber risk and national security, in your opinion?

In my— I was going to say in my opinion. Yes. Oh, I think that a lot of times, no matter what sector you're in, that, um, we forget the most important thing about, you know, that environment, and it's about trust, right? So to me, I think cybersecurity is about trust. Um, and then I think that, um, when you're talking about the national missions and intelligence systems and things like that, you still have to depend on what you don't know, like the unknowns. And so when you're looking at technology, um, you always got to look at leadership. Like, to me, everything goes back to leadership, right? And so, um, cyber— cybersecurity, to me, it's not about trust, it's about the leadership that you have in place, it's about the people that you have in place. Um, a lot of times we forget that it's the people that make it a success and not just the technology itself, because the technology can't operate itself. You have to have the people. So I believe that in order for cybersecurity to be as effective as it should be, is that you have to make sure that you are surrounded by the right people. But as a leader, that you're leading with the same tenacity as you would in that environment.

That is quite insightful. I felt like maybe it was maybe, I don't know, 3, 4 years ago when AI started taking over the world. Back then, and I still believe today, AI should really make people more effective in their role. However, in Silicon Valley, more and more companies are replacing people now because of the automation you get through AI. I think that is a mistake. But let me ask you about just now emerging tech, AI, and automation. It's really accelerating quite exponentially right now. What leadership principle do you think should remain non-negotiable? No matter how fast technology moves?

Ask me that again. I want to make sure I hear.

So what leadership principle must remain non-negotiable for leaders no matter how fast technology moves? Now I'm thinking about AI automation.

Sure, sure, sure. So I think that as technology is moving, we have to understand that technology supports people and not the other way around. Um, and as technology is moving, you got to make sure that it's not leaving the people behind. You know, a lot of people look at AI and think it's a new phenomenon. It's not. It's just the way that we use it that's new, right? Because I remember using AI in the early '80s and '90s, and most people don't realize it existed in that time.

Yes.

But I think that, um, we have to understand our audience as well, because, you know, being in Silicon Valley, you know, you guys just throw stuff against the wall. Like, I know how they are, you know, they just be throwing ideas against the wall to see what sticks. And then if that sticks, then okay, it's the new phenomenon. So I think that, um, even in the research, um, of what you're trying to push out, make sure it's relevant to the people and, and not trying to make the people relevant to it. That's just my take on it.

Powerful. And let's talk a little bit about your transition. Transition is sometimes very hard, especially when you go from military to civilian. Many people kind of struggle through it. You've had an exceptional transition. Not only you, you came through on the civilian side, but you became CEO of a tech company which you really built from scratch. What do you think is the mindset shift that helped you succeed as an entrepreneur from the Navy?

Yeah, so I think that, you know, going back to my early days in the military, um, and just learning from, from leaders that, you know, helped me to be a better CEO, um, I will tell you that, you know, not knocking anything from any of the services, I think the Navy trains leaders out of the gate. Like, you know, we are forced to learn how to lead. No matter what area you are, what level of rank you are, you're gonna be in charge of someone. Like, I remember being in— as an E3, being in charge of, um, Evolution. And I'm looking like, really? And, and you're clueless, but you learn to lead the team. Like, you just figure it out. So, um, for me as a CEO, I mean, I'll be honest with you, I started this journey as a CEO Yes. Were there a lot of unknowns? 100%. But there are areas that I was like, uh, am I gonna make it here? Yes. But I took the, you know, the learning time that I had in the Navy, all the experiences that I've had, and I was like, okay, how do you survive this? You know, I didn't have mentors and a lot of mentors in the Navy, but in the private sector I've had the opportunity to pull on some of them.

Yes.

And to learn from my peers, um, on shortfalls that I don't really understand. So I think that, um, you know, the backbone for me was my Navy journey, because one thing I know is that I'm a good leader. But when it comes to other things about this journey as a leader or as a CEO, you know, I have to pull from other peers and colleagues around me to make sure that I plug the holes on my shortfalls, right?

Wow, that is really insightful because we also talked earlier when you said you really didn't have any role model coming through your career. However, you are really paying it back forward big time, right? Because you've been mentoring a lot of veterans and women founders, which is really admirable. What characteristics do you think separate those that you mentor who scale successfully and those who kind of stall out? What makes the difference in your view?

Sure. Well, I'm gonna be polite. They, you know, most of them want things handed to them without working for it, um, and they don't have the grit or the grind to actually get to the next level. But those that are— I call them, they have to be very hungry. You have to have that, that drive inside of you, um, to want to do better, to always want to succeed. And so the ones that, um, I look at, some that I mentored and advised, they're doing better than I am as a CEO, and I'm like, okay. Hey, you know, their companies are soaring. And so I'm just happy to share, you know, what I have in my toolkit because someone did it for me. So I just want to pay it forward.

Wow, that is wonderful. Another thing you also do, I think people who are watching, especially my JOs and enlisted folks, eventually they would like to aspire to be on boards. So you've served on multiple, multiple boards and advisory council. What do you think they should start doing now if they want to be board ready later?

Well, you have to hone in on the craft, like decide if you want to be on the administrative side or the technology side of the boards. Um, for me, I love the governance piece of it. I think that, um, most people don't understand, like, if you're really going to be effective on the board, um, understanding the governance and how that organization operates Yes, um, help you to be effective. And so, you know, that's what I did in the Navy. Like, in the Navy, you know, you want to understand the command that we're at, understand how it operates. So it all equates and, and, um, shapes the way that you think. And so I just use that background that I had from being in a, you know, leadership roles in the Navy and understanding the dynamics of how the organizations works. And then I just took that and translated over to being on boards. And so, wow, governance to me is the, is sweet spot.

Yes. Wow, powerful. Okay, we're going to get into the last segment of the show where I really try to focus on the leadership principle you've learned that have made you who you are today. Uh, what do you think is the greatest lesson you've learned so far? Lesson in life, leadership, just in general?

So, so the greatest lesson I've learned is remain trainable, you know. Don't always appear that you know everything, but you know, have a listening ear. Um, yes, allow, allow someone that is looking from the outside to give you that advice on how to do a course correction, you know, if it's needed. But I also learned that, um, everybody's not, um, in your corner. Um, nobody cares about your dream but you. And so, um, that to me woke my, you know, woke me up, is that, okay, this is my dream, but yes, no one cares whether you succeed with your dream or not. So you have to be true to yourself. And so Um, me as a CEO, I, I've learned to focus on where I'm trying to go with this company, but more importantly, um, dream big for our team.

Wow, that's powerful. So what do you think is, uh, the best leadership advice you've ever received?

The best leadership advice that I've received? You changed these questions up on me.

Yeah.

Uh, the best leadership advice that I've received was to, um, stay true to you. Don't, don't allow your circle to, um, change who you are. Um, I'll tell you one thing that most people don't even know about me is that, um, when I'm around competitors or even in the ranks, coming up the ranks, I remember Shipmates used to say, uh, we're in competition with each other, Erica. And I would look at them and go, no, we're not. And, and they would go, I'm gonna make— I remember we went to take the chief's exam, they're like, we're gonna make chief first, who's gonna come out with this chief petty officer? And I'm like, you know, I was just competing with Erica. So one, one lesson that I've learned over the years is never compete with anyone but yourself.

Wow.

So I never compete with anyone, even in this environment as a CEO, when I have, um, colleagues or someone say, oh, that's your company competition. Like, you're not my competition. I'm just competing with myself. Because if you compete with yourself, you never let yourself down.

That is powerful. So you're competing with the man, the woman in the mirror, uh, the version you were yesterday. That is powerful.

Powerful.

Wow. So, uh, what do you think is the secret to your success? You went from E1 to E7 to O5, and now you are a successful tech CEO. Why are you so successful, you think?

I think I'm successful because of my upbringing, to be honest. I had great parents that were hard workers. They taught us value and never to give up. More importantly, they told me that when you walk in a room, just assume that you belong. Before people start using that term, you know, do you belong in the room? It was instilled in us as kids. Um, I, I laughed today because in my family, um, getting a B was not acceptable. It was considered an F. So coming from a family of overachievers, right? So, um, you know, my parents always taught, taught us always achieve to be the best, you know, like always achieve to be the best. So my sense of belonging was making sure that I was the best version of me that I could be.

Did you feel any pressure to even be better because you were a woman or Black just throughout your career? Does that impact you in any way? Oh, sorry. Oh, did you— the question I asked is, while you were going through the ranks, did you have a sense that you had to be even better because you were a woman and because you were Black in a world clearly not made for you?

Oh yeah, the Navy made me an overachiever because, you know, when I started out in the Navy in the early '80s and '90s, like, women were always— it's like we were like second-class citizens, to be honest, because we would actually do make higher marks— most people don't know this— we actually have what they call a pass but not advance score that was higher than the men that actually promoted, right?

Yes, yes.

You know what I'm saying? Like, you have the exam cycle, the men and women would take the test, our scores would be higher than the guys, but we wouldn't advance and they would. Yes, you know, it's a quota thing. And so, um, then also, you know, you're, um, considered you know, a little different when you're a female. But then if you're a Black female, most people don't think you're smart, so you have to overachieve and do more than the average person. And so that to me has always, you know, it's always been there for me. But I will tell you what, one thing for me that I don't do is I don't see color unless you make me see color. And, and I don't care how you treat me because of my race I always, um, do my best, you know. I'm gonna always do my best. I'm gonna always overachieve no matter what because that's all I know is— and because my family instilled in me to always be my best. So, um, just because the people around me viewed me as a Black female, that doesn't mean that I viewed myself in that capacity. I viewed myself as an individual that could do the job, that was well capable of doing that job. And so to me, um, in the environment that we're in today where, um, we look at all of the different, you know, acronyms that's being used or floated around, um, I don't want you to view me any differently than what I am. I just want you to think as a leader, as an individual that's capable of doing my job. Yeah. And more importantly, bringing the right tools to the kit that you need to get— wow— you need to have accomplished. So don't, don't view me as just a Black female. View me as it's me in my space.

That is really, really powerful because I think part of the reason why I do this podcast too is I'm always looking for mentors and trailblazers that my two daughters could definitely follow and learn from. So they, both of them will definitely listen to this podcast and thank you so much for sharing that. So as a leader, I know leaders are learners. What are you learning right now?

So for me, I am learning to, um, do better marketing. Like, I'm learning a lot of things. I'm re— like, we're 100%, um, rebranding the company, right? So I'm learning the nuances about rebranding, um, and I'm learning about taking a business from a startup phase to the— to another phase of this journey. And so in this phase of my journey, I've sought out some very strong mentors who have grown companies and sold them. And so what you had in— what I had in the beginning, um, doesn't work now. And so, you know, for me, I'm reading books on that, you know, how to, how to, how to lead a team into the next era, things like that.

Fantastic. Now, we've talked a lot about your successes, but I know you don't really succeed unless you go through failure. Is there any experience you are willing to share? Or I guess maybe a better question is, how has failure shaped your life?

So a lot. Yeah. You know, we all have our ups and downs, right? And so I will tell you that my— a lot of my failures are my strongest advocates for me doing what I do best, right? I'll tell you, recently I had to learn some very powerful lessons about failures, and I am grateful because I turned those hard moments and difficult times into a trainable moment for myself, not for anybody else. You bring people on to your teams and they have all the right tools in place, they have all the right skill sets. Yes, but that doesn't mean that they're there for you to succeed, right? And so as a CEO, um, you know, we had some setbacks in a few areas. And what I learned is that even if I trust and verify, even if I hire or do all the right, you know, interview tactics and things like that, that you every now and then you're going to have a bad apple to get through that, you know, that hole. And, you know, on your team. And so one thing I learned, I had to learn, is that, um, in the midst of all of that, you know, you have to listen to your team. And as a CEO, sometimes, you know, we're so busy doing other things that leaders do that we forget to allow the voices that's, um, amongst us to be heard. And so, um, I, I thank God for my team because Um, I had— if I had to listen to them, we wouldn't have experienced the failure that we did. But going back to that moment and actually, um, you know, just going back and asking questions, and they're like, Miss Dobbs, I think we should do this, I don't think we should go that way. So I think that a lot of leaders are, are apprehensive about talking to their team. But remember I said I'm trainable, I don't know everything, that's why I have a team.. And so in that time, um, my team and I, we did a lot of hashing out some areas that we know we needed to perfect. And so I'm grateful to say now that we— hey, we're soaring in that area now. We're not falling short in it. But you know, you just have to fix those areas that, um, they have some little deficiencies and move forward. But I think you have to listen. Don't just have a team just to say you have a team. Have a team that you really trust and use and want them to be a part of the process. That's what I would say.

Wow, that is powerful. Yeah, one of my mentors, Dr. Willie Jolly, used to say, right, a setback is a setup for a comeback. And I think as long as you learn from your failures, you are really not failing, you are moving forward. Wow, powerful. So let me ask you this. If you could have dinner with 3 people, right, they could be alive, dead, or mythical figure is fine too. Who would you choose and why? 3 people to have dinner with.

So, so I'm not a person to follow. Um, I don't even know why you asked me this question. I'm not that person. Like, I'm walking in the room. I'm gonna tell you something that's funny. I walk into rooms and, um, I'm in a room with people that are high profile, and I laugh at this because they're waiting for me to have that, you know, that starstruck moment, and I don't even know their name. And so that question took me back to a moment where I was at a dinner, where I was actually at a dinner, and I won't say the person's name, but the person was the guest keynote speaker, and I had no that I was talking to a billionaire speaker, but we were having a female moment where she was going through the early stages of menopause and her clothes were drenched. And she was like, well, Erica, what do you think? Do I keep my jacket on or do I take it off? And I'm like, I would leave it off because if you keep it on, everybody going to know you're having a moment because it's drenched. And so when you say who do I want to sit at the table with, I'm like, to me, the only people that I would probably want to sit at the table with is my employees because Wow, that's tough. Know who— that I appreciate them because I've been exposed to the high-profile people at their table and had no clue who they were. So, yes, and then once you get up, I learned, oh my, I'm sitting here talking to the billionaire and I didn't even know who I was talking to.

Oh, that's, that's a— nobody has ever said that, but that is very, very powerful. And I know some other people I've interviewed, they've said, no, their spouse and their children or their grandma. Very, very personal. So I like employees. Thank you for, for sharing that. Okay, is there maybe a book that you would recommend to my audience, something you've read that we should read also?

Yeah, I'm reading a book now called The Advantage, um, and it's about how to, um, set up your, you know, how to set your team up, have your team, um, to do better, like how to actually operate in different environments. So that's the book that I'm actually reading right now as a company and trying to see if I need to restructure our ecosystem actually to align with some of those tools that's in that book.

Well, that's by Patrick Lencioni, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah, I like him. He has done a lot of great, great work. Well, thank you for sharing that. And is there maybe a song or a book or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

A song, a book, or a movie? Yes.

That would represent your life's theme.

I can give you a scripture.

Okay, please.

Yeah, look, you ready? I can give you a scripture that I lean on. It's like, you know, throughout my military career, I had one scripture that I read for 30 or something plus years, and that's Mark 11:23-24. Have faith in God, you know, whatsoever you say to the mountain, be thou removed.

Um, yes, and don't doubt in your heart.

Yeah, he will get the desires of your heart. So, um, yeah, I, I believe in standing on my biblical principles, you know, more than anything. Yeah, as opposed to a movie or a thought or idea. I stand on the Word of God.

Yeah, that is really, really, really, really powerful because, you know, you need to have a positive attitude in life and have faith that, you know, things are possible, right? Even though it's not likely, but there is a possibility to that. It reminds me of what Les Brown said. I think he's the first one I heard say that way. You have to shoot for the for the star. This way, even if you don't reach the star, at least you will hit the ceiling of the roof or something. But always having that positive mindset, it is possible for me. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. Okay, we are almost out of time. Can you give me like 5 more minutes before we land this plane? Thank you so much. If you only had one and only one day to live, What would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Just giving back to others. Like, you know, I do everything I do to better our community, to better our country. So I just want to be recognized for my ability to give back to others because I don't need anything.

Wow, that is quite insightful. So if you had the magic wand and you could solve any problem at all, What is the one problem you'd like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

Um, the education divide for our children.

Yeah, yeah, especially now it looks like the Department of Education is going to be disassembled. But yeah, it's, uh, something. Okay, uh, so we are coming toward the end of the show, so let me ask you What can my audience do to give back to you? You've added so much value to us by speaking to us today. How can we add value back to you?

Um, just follow me on LinkedIn, um, of course, and, um, and go to our website, you know. Look at any— you know, I would like for them to, um, look at our website at the job section and see if there's anything that we can do to help them, you know, more than anything. Like, if there are any job opportunities that we have available that they would like to apply for. So, you know, I don't ask for much.

Powerful. Thank you. Thanks so much. Especially right now, because I think especially Black women, so many of them have been laid off from the— from government jobs. And thank you for making this available. We really do appreciate that. And is there a question I should have asked you, Commander, that I didn't get a chance to ask? Anything you wanted to talk about today we haven't talked about yet?

No, I don't have any questions that I think we missed out on. That's more than what we talked about. True, true, true.

But let me ask you this. I think this is probably the most important question. I believe you are about 19 years old here. So the question I have for you is, if you could go back and give a piece of advice to this young lady right there, 17, 19 years old, standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had in the Navy and in technology, What would you say to 17-year-old Erica?

Keep striving for the best, you know, like during that time. Yeah, keep striving for the best. Um, don't doubt yourself. Keep striving for the best. Because, you know, when I joined the Navy, I dropped out of college to join the Navy. My family was not very happy with me. I was in school. I was a civil engineer student in school and dropped out of college to go join the Navy because they said, oh, you can have an adventure and go to schools. I was like, oh, I'm excited about this, not realizing the other part of it once you get there. Yeah.

So did the Navy eventually pay for your school?

They did.

Okay, fantastic. Yeah, this is another thing I feel like some sailors don't really know all of the benefits that are available to them, whether it's VA mortgage, GI Bill, or whatever it might be. Um, but of course, if you don't take advantage of those benefits, it's I'm not going to be helpful to you. Wow. Powerful. Okay. We are going to end this in a couple of minutes. So let me do a light round. It's going to be really fast. So don't take too long to think. In a couple of minutes, we're going to be done. Let me ask you this. What is one word that defines great leadership? One word.

One word.

Hmm. For leadership.

That describes leadership.

Discipline. Discipline.

Okay.

What is a morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

Prayer.

Okay. A book or quote that changed your life? I think it's Mark 11:22-23, I'm gonna assume.

So the—

the—

I'll give you one word: focus.

Focus.

Wow.

Okay. Who inspires you the most today?

My, look, my team.

Yes. All right, a leadership habit you refuse to compromise on?

Hmm, if I know I'm right, I'm not compromising. So I am a little stubborn.

Good. Yeah, being stubborn is good. I am too, but make sure you're right, because if you're wrong, my goodness, it could be terrible. Okay, uh, what is the question every leader should ask themselves frequently?

Am I doing my job? Wow.

All right. So what did you want to be when you were a kid?

You ready? An architect.

Really? Wow. Okay. Yeah, I guess that's why I was in school for civil engineering. Yes.

Yes.

Well, at least now you are the architect of your company, I guess. Okay. So what are 3 adjectives describing you as a child?

Shocking. Quiet.

Mm-hmm. One more.

Athletic.

Okay, what about as an adult?

Um, as an adult, forward-thinking, you know. Um, I, I walk into the room and I always assess it, and I love to see change. So I'm a change maker for sure.

Okay, so Very good. So let's finish with this. Um, I like to end on a positive note with everything that's happening in the country and really the world right now. I want to stay optimistic. What is something you are feeling optimistic about?

That this is going to be a great year. Like, I'm not, you know, looking at what's happening around me. I'm just staying focused on what I can control. You know, a lot of times we get so caught up in the chaos because this what we are operating in right now is chaos. Yes, but you have to take the chaos and calm it down and just do what, what's in your sphere. And so that's what I'm doing. Like, I'm not focused on, you know, how many got fired, what ethnicity they are, what gender they are, none of that. That to me, that's like white noise. So I'm just staying focused on where we are today as a company, where I am as a leader, and what I can do to fix what's in my realm of peace in my sphere. That's all I care about.

Thank you so much for saying that.

All that is irrelevant.

Focus on your mission. All right. This is the very last question. And thank you for giving us a couple of minutes. I know we are about 5 minutes over, but last question I have for you. What is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today, Commander?

I would say thought-provoking.

Good. Thank you. And I am so, so grateful. You are my big sister in arms. I definitely stand on your shoulder. You were an IP officer before that even meant anything. Even as a surface warfare officer, that's pretty much what you did for the Navy as a communication officer. And then eventually the IP kind of took over. I didn't become an IP officer until 2007, and I believe our community started right after 9/11, I think around 2001.

2000.

Yeah. So you were one of the plank owners of the community. So I salute you and thank you so much for your service and for being one of our master teachers today. Thanks so much. Commander Erika Dobbs, retired.

Thank you.

All right, everybody, this is one for the book. I'm very, very grateful to Commander Erika Dobbs, really an outstanding officer and now Tech CEO. When you guys watch the replay, please keep letting us know where you come from, what you're grateful for, and also if you have any feedback on what we've covered today. So really quickly, In about an hour, I will have— this is a non-religious broadcast. I'm going through the Book of Proverbs in January, Ancient Wisdom Mentoring from the Book of Proverbs. Again, this has nothing to do with religion. It's about the ancient wisdom and the leadership lesson from the Book of Proverbs. Today is January 14th, so we're going to do chapter 14 today and then 15 tomorrow. And at the end of the month, the 31st, we're going to go through all 31 books of Proverbs. Like I've explained before, I used to do this when I was a teenager. I think I was 12 or 13 years old when I started doing this. Every year in January, I read one chapter of the book of Proverbs. And later when I got married, I would do it with my wife. So this is the first time I am doing this publicly on LinkedIn and YouTube. If you want to join me and share your thoughts about Proverbs chapter 14, again, to get wisdom and leadership lesson, not religion, you are welcome. And after that, today I will be speaking with Lisa Fan. She's a mentoring architect. A builder, a connector. We're gonna be talking about Living Out Loud: How Mentoring Builds Leaders, Cultures, and Careers. She's a bestselling author of two mentorship books, The Mentor's Guide and Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring. She also has a TEDx talk about mentoring. So you definitely want to be there. That's gonna be at 10:30 Pacific time today. And then tomorrow I will have the great pleasure and honor of speaking to the one and only, a man who doesn't need to be introduced, General Larry O. Spencer, US Air Force retired. He's a people-first servant leader, a trailblazer, and a principal steward. We're gonna be talking about Dark Horse, which is the title of his number one bestselling book, going from airman to four-star general. So I keep seeing people who go from E-1 to officer this week, and it is really wonderful. You don't want to miss that. And tomorrow also, after I talk to the general, I will be speaking with Jamie Shambon, She's an Harvard-educated career catalyst. We're gonna be talking about career agility in an uncertain world. And then on Friday, I will be speaking with Colonel Josh Atzel, US Army retired. He's a medical doctor, a combat physician, educator, speaker, and bestselling author of A Prescription for Caring in Healthcare Leadership. So we're gonna be speaking about A Prescription for Caring on Friday. All right. Thank you so much for watching the show today. I hope to see you for the ancient wisdom and leadership lesson from Proverbs chapter 14 in about an hour. And then later today with the one and only Lisa Fan. All right. Have a wonderful day and see you later. Bye.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century. Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.