S5:E151🎙️ LIVE with CDR Arthur Billingsley, USN (Ret.) (Multi Tracks Audio)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's my Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple, to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to Welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

Welcome to another episode of Making a Difference. I'm your host, Tony Davis, and with me today is the owner of Cognizair, Arthur Billingsley. Arthur, welcome to the show.

Great to have you on.

Thank you.

Great to be here.

Thank you for having me on. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, tell me about Cognizair. Tell me a little bit also about your story.

My story is that, um, out of high school I joined the Navy.

Okay.

So this was 1978. I left high school, and with a good friend of mine in Birmingham, Alabama, we joined the Navy. I stayed in for the next, uh, 26 years. Uh, 22 were active duty, but 26 years total. Retired in 2004 as a commander, and then wanted to start my own business but didn't know enough about it. So I went to some larger companies to start there, to learn about the commercial side. And I did that with a number of companies and a small company as well, and then launched my own company in 2007, Cognizant.

Okay.

And have been doing consulting off and on since then.

Okay, great.

What type of consulting is Cognizant? By the way, thank you for your service.

Oh, thank you.

Yes.

Cognizant is doing IT management, doing strategy. And leadership. Perfect.

So, all right, uh, welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast. And today I have a very special guest for you. My brother-in-arm will be talking to us in just a moment, and we're going to be learning so much from his experience and his wisdom. So before I get started, like we usually do here, we have what we call moment of gratitude. Part of the reason why we do this is because in the military, it's about 21, 22 service members and veterans who commit suicide every single day. Not every month, not every quarter, every single day. And we believe here you cannot be suicidal and be grateful at the very same time. So this is the second show for today. Like the first show, Really, since June 10th, June 19th of last month, I've been so grateful for freedom because I really believe man was made to be free. Doesn't matter if you're a man, a woman, black, white, it doesn't matter. You were made, I believe, in the image and likeness of God, and you were meant to be free. And I celebrate freedom so much. And America, we say, you know, the home of the brave, the land of the free. And I'm so grateful, so grateful for Freedom. All right, so, uh, if you would please let us know where you are, uh, joining us from, uh, what city, what state, and if you come from another country outside of the US, let us know which country as well. Let us know what you are grateful for, and if you do have a question for my guest, please type it in the comments, and, uh, we're gonna be answering your questions live. So let me see if I can properly introduce my, uh, guest today, right? I think, uh, we're going to be talking about, uh, truth, technology, and leadership., right? Making better decisions in the age of complexity, the age of artificial intelligence. So some leaders build technology and some build organization and some leaders build people. I believe that Commander Arthur Billingsley, US Navy retired, has spent a lifetime doing all three: building technology, building organization, and especially building people. So thank you for joining us today. I believe it's gonna be an inspiring conversation. With Commander Arthur Billingsley, retired US Navy commander, engineer, executive educator, entrepreneur, a pilot, bestselling author, and founder and president of Cognosir LLC. With more than 35 years of leadership spanning military service, defense acquisition, enterprise technology, AI governance, and higher education. So Arthur is helping shape our leaders make better decision in an increasingly complex world. Together, we are going to be exploring the intersection of leadership, artificial intelligence, history, and decision-making, and why truth, critical thinking, and integrity remain indispensable in the age of artificial intelligence. Part of what you're gonna be learning today is leadership lesson from a distinguished Navy commander, technology executive, and educator, but also learning about practical advice for military officers, cybersecurity professionals, and engineers, and emerging leaders preparing to lead in an AI world. Power Future, basically the main tribes of my audience here on the Leadership and Success Podcast. So without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Commander Arthur Billingsley. Good afternoon, Commander. How are you doing today?

I am well.

How are you?

Great, great, great. What is one thing you are grateful for today, Arthur?

I'm grateful to be here. So like any day, having a chance to talk with other folks and engage in conversation and actually learn things is what I like to do.

Indeed. Yes, indeed. I really believe every senior officer from O-5 and on should write a book by the time they retire. They have to. You already have two books out there. I am right behind you, my friend. But it's just wonderful, especially the second book, I think may have more significance to you. But when you think about legacy, what you're gonna leave behind, I think a book is really, really important. You, you may already know, but one of my primary mentors is the guy up there, right there, General Colin Powell. He's no longer with us, but he's written two books. And every time I need to be mentored by him, I just have to go to his book and just read his voice and get mentored from the general. It's, it's really amazing what what this book can do, not just for you and the people around you, but even generation who may not even know you in the future. Anyway, is there something, what would you say for someone who just meets you for the very first time? What is maybe your superpower or something just unique about you they may not know?

I hope that upon meeting anybody, that they are uplifted by our meeting. And by uplifted, maybe by an idea, Yes, by a thought, maybe by an inspiration, some way that they come away with a different sense and a better sense about something.

That's so powerful.

I— and we're going to talk about one of my themes is live tiri, or give better than you receive it.

Yes.

And in that, I try to do that in almost everything. And And here's the kick, Bob, is that even in doing that, even in talking about service to others, we always receive something in return, not expected, but just as that's the normal order of things. You receive something in return that you may not have even planned on getting or planned on receiving or planned on even understanding. And that's called innovation as well.

Yeah, that's also leadership, mentorship, coaching. I mean, that's, that's really what we are called for, aren't we? Always leave things better than the way we found it, adding value in some way.

Yeah, you've had another guest on that's a good friend of mine. That's Admiral Singh Harris.

Yes.

And he has a term that he likes to say about embrace civility. The number one thing that we want to be promoting in our leadership and even in our service is to embrace civility. And the underlying point about embracing civility is to recognize humanity, recognize and respect each other so that we can go forward together and build each other up.

I love it. As you know, our core values in the Navy: honor, courage, commitment. But at one point, we almost added the fourth one, respect. I really wish we had done that. But that's right, civility, respect, dignity. That is so, so important.

Yeah.

Wow.

And most military leaders, we often get military training throughout our careers. Even as an enlisted guy, you start to get leadership training at the O-4— O-4— at the E-4, E-5, as you start to be a leader at that point. And it's certainly by the time that you become an E-7.

Yes.

And in all of that leadership training, you're taught about managing resources, managing people, and leading people. And the difference, of course, in leading and managing— inspiration piece. But what doesn't get focused on enough is the moral piece, the humanity piece, that we have to make sure that we are focusing on humanity and the outcomes there as part of our leadership decisions.

So, so powerful.

I want to make sure that we, we focus on as well.

Yeah, and when we talk about humanity too, you and I, we happen to be African American Black officers, senior officers, the most powerful Navy in the world. I can't believe it. Top 4% of everyone who's ever joined the service, and it's less than 1% of people in America right now who are part of the military.

Right.

Without the work of the Golden 13 specifically for our service, I think I have their book up. There next to our First Lady forever, Michelle Obama. Without them, there is no Commander Zinga, there is no Commander Billingsley. Can you believe there was a time, not long ago though, 1944 is when we had the first Black officers in the Navy. My father was born in 1943, so my father was about 1 year old. So that's not ancient history.

Bob, your mic went dead there for a second.

Oh, okay, can you hear me now?

I can hear you now.

Yeah, I was just saying, you know, just about what, 80 years ago is when we had the first Black people officers in the U.S. Navy. Isn't that awesome?

That's the wonderful thing about America, that America is founded on a promise. And that promise is what we all strive for, is to make America better again, is what we were saying. That promise of equality, that promise of liberty, that promise that you're going to be awarded by merit. That's what we're striving for. And I think it's a wonderful thing. My grandmother— this is on my mother's side, my maternal grandmother— was born a slave in 1860 in Alabama. So no, it's not that long ago that there was different challenges, different struggles in America. But America has come forward. We've moved America forward together. We've gotten here, and we're going to continue to move forward as well. So it's a wonderful thing.

That's amazing. More perfect union.

Wow.

So powerful. Well, you've had quite a career, my friend. You've had one of the most fascinating careers I've ever encountered. Navy commander, engineering leader, executive, professor, entrepreneur, pilot, bestselling author, and on and on and on and on. One of the leading voices on AI governance and decision intelligence today. But beyond your resume, what has always impressed me really is your commitment to really pursuing truth, and even when it's uncomfortable, right? So I am so, so glad to have you here on— I think there is nobody else I've ever had as a I guess, was more aligned with my own thinking and just my background, the way I grew up and how I've been able to, to end here as an information warfare commander in the Navy. But if somebody met you for the very first time, outside of your professional accomplishment and all of your accolades, what would you most hope they remember about Arthur Billingsley?

I hope that they remember the feeling. You know, they felt, hey, that's, that's a nice guy. And I enjoyed the meeting. And I hope that there's something that we can share in terms of the conversation or talking about or, or some other thing that we might share in common. And certainly here in America, whenever I meet new people, there's always something that we have in common, whether it's where we are at that time. Yes, it's the weather or whatnot. And Even as we're talking about leadership, even as an enlisted guy, I found that the qualities of leadership still matter. Even though you might not be leading a team of more than one or two.

Yes.

You'll have those qualities of leadership that you're, you're growing and that you need in order to make this, make this work. One of the things we were talking about is the need for truth. Where this comes in is the decisions that are made without full view of what's happening, without full view of reality, or— yes, understanding— often don't stand the test of time. As a matter of fact, they never understand, they never stand the test of time, because they're flawed decisions. And that's why truth is so important, so that we can make decisions that are lasting that are more permanent and that have more legitimate impact.

That is really something. We may talk about that a little bit later too, but when I grew up in the Republic of Congo, it was the Popular Republic of Congo, it was pretty much communist country. And back then we would burn books. We wouldn't want kids to get certain type of knowledge. But it is really, really sad that today in our own country, there are forces that really don't want people to know our true history. They try to erase history as if it never happened. I'm like, that's crazy. I think we need to learn from the past, from the history, so we can be better, so we can do better. But you can't just pretend like it never existed.

That's correct. Um, even if we try to use cover for the truth. The history is not hidden, not hidden. Yeah. And there's a couple of pieces I wrote about it, but the short of it is this: that the people that experience the actual reality, they carry that truth. It doesn't go away just by saying that they don't exist or that they're not there. That truth is carried in them, is carried in their experiences, carried in their— what they hand down to the next generation and so So again, it doesn't benefit us to look away from what the truth is. It's only when we acknowledge it, use it as part of our decision-making process, and then move forward from that. So you have a full view of reality, full view of the outcomes that could be available to us. Wow.

Now one, one thing that comes out, you know, when I read your books, your articles, and your social media posts, is the idea to leave it better than you received it. Where did that philosophy come from?

It came over time. I didn't— of course, I wasn't born with it. But it was that as I was about mid-career, I'd say I was in my early 30s, is where I adopted this. And as I look back at how things were going and how things had gone, at that time, when I was in the early '30s, my early '30s, I started to see that the thing that I wanted to do, yes, was to leave it better than I received it. Leave it better than I received it means whether it's a mission, whether it's a ship, whether it's a role, whether it's an encounter, whether— didn't matter what it was. When I looked around at what my— what made me— I don't want to say happy, but I'll just say what made me feel worthy is that something is better because I was there, because I had a hand in making it, because I could have a choice in making it better. That's kind of what drove me after that, after I came to that revelation, and just that, and still do that. Now, For the other leaders out there, this is not to say that you go into every decision thinking about how do I leave it better than I receive it.

Yes.

To say that overall, this is an overall stance that I have. And I would recommend it to other leaders out there as well. And I imagine most of us do, most leaders do, that we don't go into a situation thinking, man, we're going to really mess this up. And I'm saying that to say, I have not been without my share of failures. As well. But most of the time when there have been successes, it has always been that it has been better for all of those concerned.

Wow, we have so much in common. I just found out today that you actually grew up in Birmingham, Alabama. I was a kid, I was 17 when I came to this country, and I became an adult in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, only an hour away. And I went to the University of Alabama, but you, it looks like you went to our arch enemy. Because in the South, yeah, in the South, it's really, really crazy how serious college football is out there. It's like, I couldn't believe it. It's like, I don't know if you remember, I was still a student, I think it was in '98 or '99, somebody from Alabama went to Auburn and they posed on a tree. I'm like, you gotta be crazy. That rivalry is just out— I mean, it, it makes absolutely no sense to me. But, but Also, looking at your leadership journey, you retired as a commander in the Navy. It looks like I'm going to be forced to retire as a commander as well since I won't be shaving every single day. My skin just cannot handle it. But, and also, we both started as enlisted. I was an E-1 21 years ago, RTC Great Lakes. I mean, Great Lakes, 2005, May is when my boot camp started, which I still have PTSD episode about that. But anyway, the question I have for, for you, you began your career as an enlisted nuclear power sailor. Wow. First of all, why, why did you want to join the U.S. military and why the Navy?

Well, growing up in Birmingham, Alabama in the '60s and, you know, coming into young adulthood in the '70s, I was looking for opportunity. And my father at the time, my father was older. They had me, my parents had me later in life, they were in their mid to late 40s when I came along. And he was working, my father was working at US Steel at the time, TCI down near Tuscaloosa, just so that he could send me to college. And I didn't want that. I needed to do something that wouldn't require him to think about me or to think about his responsibility for me or that kind of thing. So another friend of mine and I decided to join the Navy. And, and we did, we joined the Navy together. We at that time had a buddy-buddy program where they put you in the same training unit. You go through boot camp together. And that's what we did. He was going to be a DT, Dental Tech. I was going to be a Nuke Power, uh, Machinist's Mate. And we went to Orlando in 1978, in June of 1978 is when we went. And the story goes from there.

Wow, just, just amazing. I mean, only in America. Of course, America is not a perfect country, God knows, but it's just amazing the opportunities we have. Why, why do you think it is important important for minority, let's say Black sailors out there, to see people who look like them in higher position of power? For example, it was only the second Black chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, right? General C.C. Cuban was one example. Why is it important to leave those people in those position and to see them really work their genius? Why does representation matter so much? You think?

So I have a nephew that's a Lieutenant Colonel in the Air Force, and he was on C.Q. Brown's staff, uh, wow, years ago. And I have another nephew that's a Lieutenant JG in the Navy. He just came in in 2024. The reason that we want to see other minority officers is one, just for the fact that merit Yes, we know that when things are based on merit, that it basically follows that that's what you'll see in the officer ranks, that the same numbers should show up everywhere. The same numbers meaning representation in our society, representation in our forces, should be representation in our leadership. Yes, it doesn't mean that we have to be overrepresented or underrepresented, it just means it should be about the same. Now, does that mean that we need to force that? Absolutely not. I'm not talking about, uh, numbers or quotas or anything like that, but I am talking about taking a hard look at how we do things and making sure that we don't have any structures out there that eliminate minority officers or other officers from progression. That's the main thing that we want to make sure of. We've got some good officers now. Yes, minority officers and majority officers. That look out for us, for the force. So when we're talking about force structure, that's what we're looking for. We're looking for the brightest and the best. And we want to continue to strive for the brightest and the best. So making sure that it's equality when it comes to how we select officers for the next roles. That's what we're looking for. And that's what makes us have a strong force.

That is really powerful, because no, As you know, in this country, generally speaking, a lot of minorities lag behind by a lot. I think there's a lot of historical reason for that, socioeconomically and so on. And I believe like the military has really been one of those ways where you can really move up in your economics. Now you get a pension, you get paid pretty, pretty well. In today's military, it doesn't matter if you're Black, white, male or female. We all get paid exactly the same based on our rank and our seniority. So it's really been a great vehicle to allow a lot of people to really move up in the socioeconomic of our society today. And then when you retire again, especially if you get to retire as a 1-star, 2-star, 3-star, 4-star, I mean, it's not just you, but it's really all of these other people in your family who depend on you. So it is really a huge impact on not just your life, you as an individual, sailor or soldier, but it's really your entire community that's being impacted, isn't it?

Absolutely. And when we're talking about that, it's hard to talk about minority participation in America without talking about diversity. Yes. And while diversity has an undertone these days, America's strength is that diversity. When we talk about World War II, it was the Navajos and their participation that gave us an advantage in the Pacific. Yes, they couldn't understand that was a code that they use that our enemy couldn't understand. Yes, we're talking about who launched us into space with NASA programs. Johnson was one of the funds. This is a minority.

Yes.

She was one of the math professors that calculated these things for the Apollo program and Gemini. And so that diversity, and I'm not even—

the GPS too, right? It was a Black woman who came up with that.

It's just to say that we cripple ourselves when we don't embrace the strength that we have. And that strength is the diversity. Learning to manage that diversity, learning to lead that diversity. Yes, that's what we want to be able to do. When we're talking about growing in leadership, some of the things that we want to look at and come to embrace is that ability for authority and delegation. One thing that I had to learn and didn't learn early on was authority and delegation. Yes, being able to trust the team, being able to build the team, to build the team, and then be able to delegate that authority down so that I didn't have to be the choke point for getting things done. And then trusting those officers to do that job and then rewarding them, or the opposite when they don't, and it's holding them accountable.

Yes.

So that's always a thing that we have to do when we're talking about building our leadership skills is learning to trust the organization, learning to trust our diversity, and then pushing down that delegation and authority. So that they can spread their wings and grow as well.

That is really something. In my opinion, the military, the Navy specifically, but I think all branches, we are really a leadership organization. I remember when I became an officer, I went from petty officer third class to O-1, my primary mentor told me, right, what location is to real estate, leadership is to the Navy officer corps. And I think it was Absolutely right. So you began your career as an enlisted nuclear power sailor before becoming a Navy commander. How did those early experiences kind of shape your philosophy of leadership?

Here's the thing. I still have connections with a lot of folks that I was enlisted with.

Mm-hmm.

Almost 40 years ago. That's over 40 years ago.

Amazing.

Those connections that we made back when we were E-3s, E-4s,. And, you know, we used to have this thing that we call push-button E-4s. And so that was, was me where I came in as an E-3. And then after you're on for 6 months or a year, I think it was E-4, because you were in the Nuke Power Program. And that whole thing about, oh, now you're, you're a petty officer now. Yeah, yeah. Friends are, you think you're something now? No, I'm not.

Yeah, yeah.

Those relationships, the point of this discussion is that those relationships, I still have some of those today.

Amazing. That's amazing.

40+ years ago. And all throughout the journey, you're developing relationships, you're developing friends, you're developing officers, and you're developing perspective.

Yes.

That perspective is so valuable when you're talking about your leadership skill and being able to see the world in a broader view. And understand how your decisions can impact other folks along the way.

Wow, so powerful. Because looking back, for you, it's like 35+ years of honorable, outstanding military service and technology leadership as well. What leadership lesson took you the longest to learn?

I think it was the delegation and authority. Yes. Whereas when you're given a task, to do, and you want to do it well, then you want to put your best effort into it. The first inclination, the first impulse is, I'm going to do it because I want to make sure that it's done properly, that it's done to my standard, and so forth and so on. But what some of my early mentors showed me was that you have to work yourself out of a job. You have to delegate and pass that authority on. That's not without teaching them. Yes, teaching and showing what's expected, making sure they have the right resources to accomplish the job. But that delegation and delegating authority was the thing that unlocked the team potential, rather than being just a me potential. So that was the, the key for me, in terms of becoming a better leader.

And as you delegate authority, you Never delegate responsibility, do you?

Well, you delegate responsibility also, but ultimately, you're responsible. That responsibility has to go along with it. Because they have to learn, the other team members have to learn the impact and the weight of their decisions. It's not that you shield them from responsibility, you are always responsible, especially when you're in command. If you are ever in command, well, Command is, for some of the folks who are not in the military, if you're leading an organization, whether it's a P&L organization, you're a director, or you're in some other leadership role, a small business owner, it doesn't matter what the people do on your team, you are always responsible. You share that responsibility with the person that you're delegating the authority for decisions, making sure that they're trained to do the job that you want them to attack, and making sure that they have all the resources that are needed for that. And again, that's what unlocks the value of the team, is when you train the team— and not that you have to train them personally. Yes, of course, make sure that they have the training that's needed, and have the resources that's needed. And then communicating that across the team, what their roles are, how this needs to go, that's what unlocks the value of the team, our team.

So powerful. Really, ultimately, you are always accountable and always responsible for your team. That's why I really love it in the Navy. For the most part, I've had really great, tremendous leaders. When things go well, the best CEOs, they share the glory with the entire team. It's not I, but it's we. And when things go bad, the best one I've seen, they take all of the blame. And people like that, you would be willing to follow them anywhere they lead because they truly have your back.

Yes.

It's amazing. Now, you have led billion-dollar defense portfolio, you've taught engineering students and advised executives. How does leadership change as responsibility increases?

I would say on the military side, you have some implicit authorities that you don't have on the civilian side.

True.

So those implicit authorities that you, I will say, enjoy on the military side, but it's usually because of urgency and other factors that go in. Civilian side, it's more of you have to focus more on communications. The communications of understanding what we're doing, why we're doing it, how long we're doing it. Yes. How is my role in this? Understanding how their careers are going to go. In the military, the career paths are somewhat set, as in you can, you can know what you need to do to get to the next, next step. On the civilian side, it's so varied that you have to understand what your team members' career paths are. What are they looking to do? What are they looking to get out of this? So that understanding and commitment to the individuals on the team, it's heightened on the civilian side, because if you want them to perform, you've got to know what makes them tick even more.

Yes.

And it's not as, uh, it's not as evident as it is in the military. In the military, you have to do the same thing, but there are some assumptions that come with that. You're an E-5 in the military, and you know what this person's, uh, uh, making in terms of money. You know if they're married or have kids. You can know some of their struggles, you know, where they live. You can know a lot about them when they're in the military just by their position in the military.

Yes.

That's not so— not the case when you're talking about the civilian side.

But really, it all boils down to people, doesn't it?

It does.

Yeah.

And, and the one thing that we were talking about earlier in the discussion about, uh, humanity We talk about humanity as the thing, that thing that attaches humanity is the moral piece. Interaction between us humans, the moral piece, the thing that we share. In that respect, we can call it respect, we can call it morals, we call it civility. But it's that moral piece is what holds us or binds us together in humanity.

That is really, really powerful. I think we've really been on a quest in this country from the very beginning, right? Building that more perfect union.

Yes.

We have this big aspiration. I think it's really world-changing, and I'm so grateful for that. It's part of the reason why I still celebrate July 4th, Independence Day, even though my kin ancestors were slaves during that specific time, but it's because that idea, I think, really, really changed the world. It looks like the first time in the world, it's like, okay, it doesn't matter who you are, all men are created equal. So there is that idea of freedom, of liberty, of seeking, and it's really world-changing, isn't it?

Celebrating liberty and freedom. The human spirit is free. When we're talking about, for me being a Christian, but it's true for other religions, other religions as well. Liberty, freedom, and understanding that human spirit is free. Yes, that's shared by, by all of us. The American experiment was born out of that, that was for freedom, that thought that, uh, yes, all men were created equal. And at that time, the founders, yes, were brilliant, were courageous, but they were also flawed individuals. But the wonderful thing about America is that they created a principle to build on to include more of us in humanity.

Yes.

To include more of us in the American experiment. And the American experiment has always been unstable because it's democracy. It's participation. It requires all of us. And so that instability is a part of it. But it has to be recognized and it has to be participated by all of us. So it can't be that we look to elect some folks or follow some folks without participating in what they're doing or giving feedback on their performance of what they're doing. So particular structures that have been created over time, We have to look at them. We have to evaluate them, see if they're meeting the needs of all of us. If they're not, let's change it. Let's make it better. And that's what we're looking to do. So the promise of America is the thing that I celebrate more than anything else, that promise of liberty, freedom, justice. And whether we're celebrating it on July 4th or celebrating it on June 19th, both of those dates are celebrations for freedom.

And so I welcome—

That's powerful.

Powerful. We're gonna be talking about your bestselling book, American Myths and American Reality: From Reckoning to Reconstruction. But before we do, we have a question, a first question from the live audience. Daniel asks, Coach Bizzy, building on the commander's expertise, when we talk about building people, do you think we are currently over-indexing on technical agility and under-investing In structural integrity, the kind of honor mode frame leaders need to actually lead advanced technology. Okay, what do you think, Arthur? Are we over-indexing on technical agility and under-investing?

I'll put my hat in the cap for a second, and, uh, on the academic side, the answer is yes. We have promoted STEM to our, uh, not to our detriment, but we've over-promoted to an extent, for instance, and we haven't celebrated the liberal arts side, the humanities side.

Yes.

It is the humanities side, liberal arts side that gives us that fiber for that moral understanding and for that shared language that we can express thoughts, ideas, and the like. So to answer the questioner's thought. It is, yes, we have over-indexed on STEM to date, and we need to bring up the liberal arts side as well.

Yes.

Yeah.

And also, both you and I, we are in the industry field, and I know for the longest, like me, the only people to have STEM degree— science, technology, engineering, math, and all that— and many people in cybersecurity and IT do. But it seems to me like we already get a lot of value, right, when we get people who think from a completely different way, whether it's music or art or history, English, or whatever it might be. I feel like they really add a lot of value to our team, don't they?

Put it another way, so we were just talking about liberty and freedom, that without the humanities, we don't understand how to communicate liberty, we don't understand how to express ourselves, We don't fully understand what's going on with folks in other groups without the humanities. And the humanities are what make us even more complete. So it's not to say that one side needs to be weighted more than the other. It's just that we've overemphasized STEM here in America. We've overemphasized the productivity of STEM toward getting some missions done rather than Recognizing that we need those humanities as well because critical thinking, the ability to put ideas out there or to transmit ideas or to transmit thoughts about what we're trying to do, all those are necessary when we're talking about leadership.

Yeah, I think one of my best friends is probably the one who coined it. I think instead of STEM, they say STEM, right? Science, technology, engineering, art, and math. OK, let's talk about your book, American Myth and American Reality. Why did this book have to be written?

So this was born out of 2016. And for some of those that are listening or may listen in the future, you may remember that Colin Kaepernick was a quarterback for San Francisco 49ers. He took a knee during one of the games. To highlight police brutality, and it was only to highlight police brutality.

Yes.

But the myth created was that he was protesting America, that he was against the national anthem, that he was against the flag. Those myths took hold, but the reality, even after he answered the question, even after his friends answered the the question, and they all said it was about police brutality and recognizing that, that myth still held. And so I started to write about it then because it was just one of those things where I wanted my voice to be added to the point of clarification. Yes. Of clarifying that the myth that this one incident blew into this larger context of, oh, he's against America, has often been used to quash dissent, has often been used to silence change. Yes, it's more to say that we want the status quo regardless of anything, rather than being able to take a hard look at ourselves, at how we do business, at how we lead, at what decisions and then come away and say, yeah, that's a good decision. And that's a decision that served humanity. So that's why I started writing about it. So I wrote something then in 2016, 2017. I wrote something again in 2020. This was after the George Floyd thing blew up. And that's where this American Myths, American Realities came from. It is to dispel some continual myths that we project because they're comfortable. We project those myths because they're comfortable rather than embracing the uncomfortable truths and operating from there. An example is these myths that are comfortable. There have been people in our history, of course, that have embraced rain dances.

Yes.

And they believed in rain dances, not because rain dances were effective, but because they wouldn't stop dancing until it rained. And that enforced in their mind that, oh, the rain dance is what's happening, that's what's making it work.

Yes.

But it was their commitment to the myth that made it seem logical and made it seem reasonable. But in the end, making decisions about rain and seasonal growth and all of that based on rain dances would not be useful to you. It's better to use science, and science is a prediction model that allows you to better predict what's going to happen and when it's going to happen. And so that is a, uh, concrete, if you will, examination of a myth versus the reality. The myth of of the rain dance versus the reality of science and how the world actually works.

Yeah, it's something you said I think is so powerful. We need to embrace the truth even when it is uncomfortable. That's how we grow, that's how we learn. Like even you're talking about the national anthem, right? Most people don't know about the third verse in our national anthem. It's not just one verse, that's the only thing we— We sing everywhere, but the third one, people just look it up, but, uh, you are going to see something that might, uh, shock you.

It's very uncomfortable. Yes, they talk about slaves and slaves being, uh, yes, uh, killed, if you will. It's an uncomfortable verse.

Yes, and that is our national anthem.

It doesn't mean that we don't celebrate an anthem coming together, but it does mean that we just want to make sure that we have that common truth and understanding of what that third verse is and that it does exist.

Yes, it says, uh, no refuge could save the hireling and slave from the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave. That's our national anthem. Again, people can pretend that it doesn't exist. It is there. Now, we never sing it in public, but it is part of the song. I mean, that's how it was written originally. But yeah, I mean, I just find it so crazy when people try to erase history. They go to museum and they try to get rid of exhibit. I'm like, that's our history. Hello, that's not going to erase it.

Right.

Anyway, so Let me ask you this. Just the title of the book, right, Myth and Reality. How do myths, whether organizational or historical or personal, kind of shape leadership decision?

Yeah, so in talking about American Myths, American Realities, the book, it is to highlight some myths that have plagued us even till today and dispel those myths and then give you a myth recognition guide in the back of that book so that you can apply this standard set of— you can, you can think of it as thinking tools to apply to anything to see if it's a myth or if it's reality. And it basically is just to say outcomes-based.

Yes.

If you look at the outcomes that these things produce as to whether it's a myth or reality.

Hmm.

About leadership. One thing that we often talk about today is servant leadership, and I still embrace servant leadership as a core piece. But if you're in national leadership, I am promoting for national leaders to do more on the convergent leadership side. Hmm. To say that there are other domains outside of one domain or outside out of one nation that you have to be concerned about. Yeah, because we do live in this interconnected global, uh, world. And to understand that we still bring a lot of old world thinking to the new world that we live in. Uh, and just one point about it, not to be too political, is to say bombing Iran is not going to get us any further along than it has in the the past. We need that new world thinking. An example of that is, as we're talking about getting into another relationship with Iran, putting an embassy there, having them put an embassy here, making sure that they become more accountable to all nations around them than just with one nation. Those kinds of thoughts of recognizing that it's a global alliance, not just a unitarist will help to build relationships that can last well beyond, uh, one term or a few years, or that's, that's on paper. Because in doing that, and here's the reason why we come back to humanity, in doing that, by having those relationships strengthened by alliances, that they can exchange people from their country to this country and like— hmm, either way, not only are you exchanging ideas and thoughts and other matters, you are strengthening your position, our position as the U.S. We're strengthening our position because our way of life gets more exposure, our way of life.

So true.

Latitude. Our way of life gets to be seen by those who don't practice it, and then they'll want it more. And they will aspire to it more because they'll see that, yes, this is a better way to operate.

So powerful. A couple of thoughts. One is I'm reminded of President Barack Obama when he used to say, right, we have so much more in common than what divides us. And, uh, uh, it's really— that's, that is our humanity. And first within the US itself, whether you're Black, white, Republican, Democrat, or whatever, but then also as a citizen of the world. And then another thought that also came to mind when you were talking is when you talk about reality and you kind of disregard the myth, people start to label you, say you are not a patriot, even though you've served in the Navy. I don't know about you, but I am now officially a disabled veteran, and I'm disabled because of what I did for my country. They're going to say, no, no, no, too much hate, you are dividing us, and you are bringing too much friction. So I guess when I read your book, one theme throughout your work is that truth-telling is really essential for progress. We can't progress without it. Why do you believe that honest reflection is an act of leadership rather than division or being unpatriotic?

So truth-telling or integrity is a leg on the stool, you know, it is a foundational piece that without it, whatever decisions we make won't stand, as in won't stand the test of legitimacy or won't stand the test of time. When we look at, say, the Civil War, for instance, yes, there may have been other folks here in America that their ancestors fought on the other side of the Civil War rather than the Union side. Well, what's the difference? The difference comes down to humanity.

Yes.

That morality piece. Now, whether that was chosen as to be the sides that should prevail, it's that that legitimacy coming out of humanity is what makes those decisions last and make them sustainable. You're asking about why is truth-telling so important? It's because our instinct, our human instinct, is toward comfort. We seek comfort. And so part in the book, and this is in Letter to My Children, I talk about the comfort trap. And the comfort trap is the, the, the desire for comfort that overwhelms us so much that we miss the innovation that could have happened.

Wow.

Because we don't want to see change. We don't want to know what's happening. We just know that we're comfortable in how we're thinking today and how we're acting today and how things go today, rather than looking critically.

Yes.

What's happening and making decisions about it. Now, personally, this comes into play also. There may be things that I do, habits or, or tics or eccentric behavior that I have to examine.

Yes.

And unless I view myself critically, unless I'm able to say, well, let me take a look. Why? Why am I drinking 20 cups of coffee a day? Unless I do that, that truth, that underlying truth of yes, I shouldn't be drinking 20 cups of coffee a day. Yes, have a detrimental effect on me. So I have to be able to look truthfully at myself. And that's just an example. It's the same thing when you're talking about organizations or businesses, or even in the middle, that we have to be able to look critically at what we do across the board and be able to assess what— how this is going to go. I mentioned convergent leadership just a moment ago. Yes, convergent leadership is a build on servant leadership, and convergent leadership is basically the capacity to evaluate across all the domains involved and look at their outcomes and make sure that our decision is going to resolve outcomes in those other domains that we don't have expertise in, that we may have, uh, direct knowledge of, and so forth. But it is being able to see that a decision on a national level can have impacts in other countries that we have to be able to say, okay, are we going to take care of this or not? Because if we're not, then we make that decision.

Powerful.

You know what you offered earlier, I'm going to take you on your offer. We need to come back to talk about your second book because I actually believe it's more important than the first one, Letter to My Children. I think everybody needs to really read this and really reflect upon that. I think it has the potential to really change our world my friend, if everybody would just think—

yeah, there's two books. So one is Letter to My Children, the Life Journey Aid. Life Journey Aid is the one that I recommend that folks get. The Journey Prism is the one where you're looking to—

oh, you actually have two of those?

Okay, the Journey Prism is included in the Life Journey Aid.

Yes.

Wow.

The Journey Prism is a way of looking at self-reflection, the very thing we were just talking about, and making sure that what we do aligns with what matters most to us. Yes, getting us toward our goals. So there's 3 columns in there where you're looking at what you do aligns with what matters to you, you toward what your goals are. And that— there's also a facility that you can see your, your vision in those first two columns and your mission in the last two columns.

So wow, that's amazing.

Your vision and mission and see how that all plays out. And that's what the Journey Prism does for you.

Wow.

Two other things that I want to talk before we get off is Good to Great. Good to Great is a good book by Jim Collins. Yeah, he's done good work on that. It's an older book, probably 20 years old at this point, or thereabouts. But it's talking about organizations and how they go from good to great. The other one that's even more important is The Wisdom of Crowds.

Oh, I've never read that one. Okay.

The Wisdom of Crowds by Jim Spurlock is talking about how There is wisdom in listening to not just experts. A majority of common people can carry as much information as an expert.

Wow.

The Wisdom of Crowds. This is from the early 2000s. But I recommend that.

James Surowiecki.

Yes.

Got it. Powerful. Yeah, the first one you said, Good to Great, is already in our— I have a and digital books. We started with just 3 free books. Now we have more than 500. So make sure to add that one there. That's pretty amazing. We definitely need to get you back. But so let me finish then now with this one, American Myth and American Reality. I think this is so important, especially at this time in our nation right now, because the way I feel about this our founding fathers, they actually knew they were doing wrong because what they said in the Declaration of Independence and what they were living was a complete lie. And they did know that, but they decided to, uh, what's the word, compromise. And I think because of that compromise, what it ended up doing is ended up costing America a lot more because more than 600,000 U.S. citizens died during the Civil War. That's, I believe, to date, right, is the greatest death we've had in any war, all war.

Yeah, percentage, right?

Yeah, uh, never, never happened. So we paid a very, very, very big price for, for, for that, on that one compromise they, uh, they made. And, and of course, no, our founding fathers, yes, I give them— they did something great. They— without them, there would be no America. We are grateful for that, but we cannot ignore those that, uh, I think Those 70% of them were slave owners. Like Thomas Jefferson, again, a genius, the idea he came with, with the Declaration, but still he raped a girl. So he was a pedophile. That's part of history. We cannot change that. And he had children with that woman and he enslaved his own children. And actually that woman happened also to have been the stepsister of his wife. So that was like his stepsister. In, in law. But anyway, once again, our facts of life, we cannot erase it or pretend they didn't happen. They did happen, but it didn't take away his genius and the ideas he had, or the ideal to, to build the country.

So I think we need to— our conversation to be misconstrued to be a dig on America, but it's more to say that we have to look honestly at our past. Honestly, our history, and honestly, as we look to move forward. So in talking about American myths and American realities, it is to say that, yes, there have been some myths that we have been taught in school that we have believed, and I personally have believed, that I come to find out that that's not the truth. And one of the things was that long history, the long victory of the Lost Cause. Laws. That's not included in the book, but it's an essay that's on Substack where we talk about and argue the point that the things that we were talking about as being a victory for the Union was only a military victory, but not a social victory.

Yeah.

And the social victory, the Reconstruction, lasted only about 10 years. And then after that, Only the names changed, but the same structures were then put back into place, and we continued on from there. Yes, because we didn't have that honesty about what we're doing and how we're doing it. That's why we lost a lot of time and effort and lives and destroyed a lot of folks and whatever, because we didn't look honestly at what we were doing. So Again, this is not to say that it's a dig at America, but more the promise of America is what gets me excited. The promise of us together going moving forward is what gets me excited. The promise that we can get there, that I've seen what America has to offer its brightest and best, and I know we can get there to build that more perfect union. So that's what gets me excited.

This is wonderful. So we are going to end here, but let me ask you, what leadership lesson then can today's could today's executive learn from America's ongoing struggle to close that gap we are talking about between our ideal and our lived reality?

I'd say it is the one that you hear about all the time, and that's servant leadership. That is putting— making sure that you can operate in both roles, both as a servant and as a leader, that by doing that you understand the needs of leadership and you understand what it means to be a leader. But beyond that, if you're a national leader or if you're a community leader where it's impacting others, convergent leadership is what we need to have and need more focus on because it is so expansive today, the globalization that has happened. We have to be able to account for our decisions beyond our little— our communities or ourselves. So if I wanted to leave you with anything, it's that convergent leadership. And by the way, an example of convergent leadership is down in Barbados, Mia Mottley. She's been practicing convergent leadership for her term down there as prime minister. Uh, you can look to her for one example, and that's what I would leave you guys with when it comes to leadership.

That is so powerful. This is a great point to, uh, stop. Uh, I could talk to you for hours and hours, but I'm so glad you're gonna be back and we're gonna talk about the two books in the series.

Yeah, we're gonna talk about AI and governance.

Yes, I want to talk about Letter to My Children too. We are going to do this because I think that book could literally help us create a better world. If every parent, if every child, if every person in America had this mindset, I think we could really quickly close that gap and be that more perfect union. I'm so proud of our country. It's the only one in the world where I was born in Africa. I'm African by birth. French by culture, American by choice, but there is really nothing like the US of A. But if only we could close that gap, I think the sky would be the limit. And thank you for all of the work you do. So he's going to be back. We're going to be talking about AI. We're going to be talking about Letter to My Children, two books in the series. I need to ask you, you do not have a digital version of that book. It looks like it's only paperback. And hardcover, if I remember right.

The, the ebook version will be out later this year, but currently it's just in hardcover.

Because I am Californian now, we always have to think about the environment. All of my entire library now is all digital, Audible or Kindle. But, but, but yeah, it's definitely— I think every family needs to have that book on their coffee table.

Offer one other thing. So for those listening, if you want to send Bob a question or thing to send to me, please do. I'll be happy to answer them, uh, and certainly if I don't answer them directly, we'll answer them on the next show.

Outstanding. Thank you so much, sir. This is, uh, really a delight and honor and a privilege to be talking to Commander Arthur Billingsley. Uh, it is, it is really awesome. I really appreciate your time today. Uh, let's see, someone has another question, but we are gonna keep this for next time. It is, uh, Daniel again. He has a lot Good question. Very, very good question too. I really appreciate the audience participating because I think what we talk about here is very, very important. But so to end the segment of the podcast today, I think I want to end with something that is kind of personal but naturally connect your own work with mine as well. So I think Arthur, one of the reasons why really your writing resonates a lot with me is that I believe that patriotism really is not about choosing between pride and honesty. I think real patriotism really requires both. We are both proud and we are both honest, right? As naval officers, we don't abandon the ship when we discover problems, right? What we do is we take responsibility for taking care of it. And that's hopefully what I'm hoping we do right here. So thank you for being one of those wise men speaking to us and sharing your wisdom and your expertise.

Thank you for having me, and to the guests that are there, thank you guys for participating as well, and I hope to see you guys on the next one.

Outstanding. Thank you so much, sir. Bye for now. All right, Everyone, so I really would like to encourage everyone to follow the commander on LinkedIn. Let me put his LinkedIn, uh, address here. So it's Arthur Billingsley, very easy. And his website, cognosiaLLC.com. And he also has a Substack. Everybody should subscribe to it, uh, at, uh, billingsley.com/substack. Artbillingsley.substack.com. A lot of thought-provoking articles there. I think it's going to make you think and help you develop into a better leader. So make sure to get the book, it's available on Amazon everywhere books are available, American Myths and American Realities, and also two books in the series, Letter to My Children. So we're going to be talking about that next time we meet and also about artificial intelligence. All right, as we end today, I want to end with what I call celebrating Black History Year, right? Because I felt like Black History Month, 28 days, is just too short. There's so much to cover. So two quick things I'm going to cover today about Black history. Number one is today is July 10th, right? So I went back and I looked, uh, I'm gonna play a short video about This one here, let me see. Yeah, here it is. This was July 10th, 1969. Georgia Governor Lester Maddox, he called for public school closure in response to the Department of Justice integration order. So he would have preferred in Georgia to shut down all the public school than to allow African American to integrate. So I'm gonna play a quick video about that, but then also I wanna talk about an American hero His name is Remy Adeleke, retired Navy SEAL. I'm talking about him now. Hopefully he's going to be on the podcast very soon. He wrote the book Transform. Originally from Nigeria, his mother from New York. So he really was African royalty, but then something happened. He had to move to the US, very, very poor kid, but he really, he was into gang and a lot of trouble. The Navy literally saved his life. He became a SEAL and now he's a big Hollywood movie star and bestselling author and on and on. But just an example of what your life could be if you believe in the dream, if you work hard and you really add value. So I'm gonna play— I wrote an article, a quick post about him, but I'm gonna play a quick video about him too. He's our profile in Courage Today. Thanks again for watching. And then I'm gonna end with Freedom, which I'm celebrating every single day this year already because we were born to be free.

Here we go. Lester Maddox ran a small cafeteria on what's now the Georgia Tech campus. And Lester Maddox was an ardent supporter of the system of segregation.

He was a segregationist. Believed that he could run his business and serve to whomever he wanted. And that's pretty well the way he ran that business until the civil rights movement and he began to be challenged about it. Folks came to be admitted and he resisted. He and others picked up some axe handles and ran folks off in front of cameras.

He saw that desegregation was gonna run his business business, and so he was a vocal supporter of segregation and an opponent of the political leaders who were making accommodations.

And when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed and ratified, Maddox decided to close his cafeteria instead of observing the law. He had an interest in politics.

Remember earlier this week when we teased you and told you that we would have one of the most beautiful men that God ever created on the show?

You talked and talked about this. Yes, I was with you.

Guess what? I've been on a mountaintop with this man. He is here, Remy Adeleke.

He's got an incredible story to share about how he made it through a rough neighborhood all the way to the bright lights of Hollywood with a stint at the Navy SEALs in between.

Now he's got a big role in the new blockbuster movie Transformers: The Last night.

Look at Remy.

Look at you, Remy. Wow. I remember very, very well the day you called me and you said, because you were going to Israel and we had a sort of a relationship about going to Israel, and Remy said, you want to say what you said?

I said, absolutely.

I don't have to.

No, but you'd gotten the call from Michael Bay and you said, can I leave Israel a little fast and go and do a couple of days on the movie?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A couple of days turned into how many days?

It turned into like 3, 4 months.

Longer than that, Remy. Yeah. That was in June, and it went all the way to November.

We wrapped in December. We wrapped in December. Yeah.

So Remy, you get a call randomly. I mean, you're not an actor. You haven't taken acting classes. How did the call come to be in this movie?

Well, actually, 3 years prior, there was a lady by the name of Kathryn Humphries. She cast me for a day of filming in The Last Show. Ship. So I did that, and then when Michael Bay was getting ready to start Transformers, she remembered me. And so, you know, I guess Michael Bay was looking for somebody with my look and my skill set, so she picked up the phone, gave me a call, and next thing went through the process and was on set.

He loves to put real Navy SEALs in his movies, right? Because, because of the authenticity.

Absolutely. What's so cool about Rami Kaphan— you introduced me, you talked about how he's now in Hollywood— but his backstory, what happened to you when you were That kid is something.

It's gonna be a movie one day about Remy's life. Hopefully Michael Bay will direct it. He started out in Nigeria, your family?

Yeah, I was born in Western Africa, lived in Nigeria until I was about 5. In 1987, my father died, and in the same breath of his death, the Nigerian government stripped our family of everything. So my mom then moved my brother and I from Nigeria to the United States, and I grew up in the Bronx.

And just got into trouble. In poverty, yeah.

Yep, yep, got involved in some quite nefarious activity by the time I was a teenager. And but it was a huge wake-up call for me, and, and it's what ultimately played a role in leading me into the military, because I had to come to the— I came to the realization that if I don't leave, I'm gonna either end up dead or in prison. And so the military was a huge, huge, uh, played a huge role in, in—

and I love how you—

oh, freedom!

Oh, freedom! Oh, freedom over me. And before I be a slave, I'll be buried in my grave and go home to my Lord and be Free. Oh, freedom.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.