S5:E18🎙️ Live with Jaime Chambron

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

Sure.

So I help businesses and individuals make a difference in scaling and growing both themselves personally and their revenue streams so they can be profitable and make what I call an impact on their lives. So it's not just about making a splash in life, it's about making a wave, and I help people make those tidal waves.

Okay, so let's talk about customer experience, and thank you for that.

You got it, you got it. So, um, a lot of things that I'm working on with clients today is around improving the way we service individuals and people. But we've been talking about phenomenal customer experience for a number of years now, and everything else is going to become a commodity besides the experience. But I think the next trend is going to be around brands not just providing a great experience for their end customers, but to also build brand transparency and brand trust. So I think brands, as we go forward, are going to make a pivot around great experiences that open up and being vulnerable and transparent in how they do business and that they're doing the right things for their customers at the end of the day.

Got it.

All right, let's talk about the innovation. Yeah, so, uh, I've done a lot of work over the last year or so in helping companies think through how to innovate and the process to innovate. And the biggest thing to start with is to figure out what's the true problem one is trying to solve for their end prospects or clients, uh, and help them get to figuring out, uh, the plan to create some breakthroughs, be it new business models, reinventing the value chain. But it comes down to first understanding what's the problem we're trying trying to solve, because that's going to be 80% of the work right there. The solution will be a piece of cake after that.

Why'd you start your own business?

I have been an intrapreneur for years for other organizations, and I thought it was time to take the leap and take the years of experience I have and build, build the business myself, innovate for myself, and then help others and help individuals as well. I see a lot of people right now looking for career advice career coaching and just kind of how do you navigate, uh, companies today and just this whole gig economy. So I thought the time was right between where I am in my career and what I'm seeing in the marketplace for needs. And I look forward to being, uh, to add value to a lot of people going forward. Good answer.

All right, career and business planning. Understand that you've got a philosophy you instill in your clients and treating your career—

excuse me—

like you treat running your own business?

Yeah, so what I've been working on with my coaching clients is around career agility. So we talk in business about being agile organizations, agile product developments, um, but we can apply those same principles to how we treat our own careers. And knowing there really isn't a clear career path anymore in any one organization— people are going between jobs or they're working for themselves as freelancers— so to me it's more about how do you ensure you have the right skills, the right network, the right personal brand and presence to let people know that you're open to and capable of doing what they're looking for, so you're ready to jump on opportunities as they come about.

All right everyone, welcome to our third episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast. So for those who watch the two previous episodes, You know that today I am grateful to be an American, to be a US citizen. I believe America is still the land of the free and the home of the brave, and I am so, so, so privileged to have worn the uniform of my country. And I believe America is definitely an idea worth dying for. I was born and grew up in the Congo in Central Africa. I've lived in Europe, especially France, and then I moved to the US when I was 17 years old. But I've never heard of the African dream, the Congolese dream, the French dream, or European dream, but there is the American dream. And that's part of the reason why I joined the US Navy about 21 years ago. And I am so grateful for this country and the potential it has to do so much good around the world. So we have a very, very special guest here. She really doesn't need to be introduced, but let me try. I think, as most people know, right, many leaders kind of climb ladders, but then there are a few who kind of redesign the entire system so more people can rise. So today, I am really honored to welcome Jamie Shambon. She's the founder of Career Agility System, former business-to-business tech executive, and a trusted guide for professionals navigating career pivots, burnout, and reinvention. I think if anybody needs a career strategist, it's really today with everything going on with the economy, the country, and the world right now, and the artificial intelligence and everything disrupting so many industries. So Jamie, she has spent over 2 decades leading and transforming global technology organization, and now dedicates her work to helping leaders just like you, helping you own your story, clarify your value, and move forward with confidence. So ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome to the Leadership Success Podcast, Jamie Chambron. All right. Good morning, Jamie. Actually, good afternoon. How are you doing?

Yes, it's great. Great day today. Doing great.

Because I guess you're coming to us from, from Dallas this afternoon where you are. It's only about 10:30 here. So we are really, really privileged that you took the time to be here and be one of our master teachers today. So just to get started, uh, what is one thing you are grateful for today?

Yeah, so today I'm really grateful for my, my kids. They keep me on my toes, but it's also fun. They're teens. It's also fun to just kind of see how they're growing and evolving right now and that the conversations we're now having. So I'm really— yeah, yes, that's, that's one. Grateful for, for those guys.

Yeah, that, that is really wonderful. Is, is there something about you that most people may not know when they first meet you?

Yeah, so I think I do a pretty good job of not really talking about my educational background. I kind of skirt, skirt around it. I mean, if you look at my LinkedIn profile, you kind of know where I, where I went to college, um, but I normally don't talk about that. It's more about who I am now and what I do and how I can assist people.

Well, it's great education for sure. I was able to be a student too, but online only. I never went there and spent time on campus, but it is really wonderful to see what you can do with that education, especially how many people you are helping now. Maybe just briefly, can you Give us your story, how you got to become a career catalyst, which is pretty impressive. Yeah. Yeah. Do you speak French? Parlez-vous français?

No.

Okay.

I thought maybe by your name.

I thought I had a story to go into with the last name, but yeah, no, not at all. So, I, college, studied computer science. I was kind of growing up in the beginning of the internet boom, and I had decided that was where I was going to study so I can not have to keep going to school and get a job right out of college, out of undergrad. Um, fast forward, I had 20+ great years of navigating my own career in tech because I knew I wasn't going to be a programmer. I knew I wanted to be a leader of some sort in the back of my head. Entrepreneurship was there, but I didn't really have the financial means to take all that risk early on. Um, so I just gradually over time took on more responsibilities, took on new roles. I also learned career resilience really early because I was part of one of the dot-com boom, but also the dot-com bust. Uh, and so 2 years out of school, I'm all of a sudden unemployed. I'd relocated to Dallas at that point. I was in San Francisco because I didn't want to get stuck in San Francisco without a paycheck. And so, and then I went on to other tech companies. If you're in the industry, you know, M&A, buyouts, IPOs, bankruptcies. So I kind of felt it all through the career. And there's a lot of change too, right? So you all of a sudden had SaaS technology platforms, all this stuff. So I had to continuously reinvent what I did, what I focused on, which meant I had to reinvent how I communicate what I do, who I serve, the value I bring to an organization to pivot from like service delivery to customer success to you name it, up to the C-suite. And so And as I was reflecting on my career, and it's a lot when you get to the point of my partner in crime is also in tech and semiconductor side and raising a family, it's, it's, it's really hard for a dual working family, especially those of us who are either at the executive ranks or very senior to balance it all. And so I started to reflect on what is it that I really enjoy in my career? Because I was starting to hit that, the ceilings that were there and the burnout. And there were two things that came to mind that I really enjoyed so far in my career at that point. This is almost a decade ago I started thinking about it, and it was talent development because I love seeing, um, younger professionals, growing them, giving them more responsibility, getting them promoted. Uh, then I had, and it was because of this stint I had when I was this intrapreneur at a higher ed tech company, I became an expert in how to package intangibles and how to communicate them in a tangible way that people would want to buy it, that value-based delivery, value-based services. And that's how I look at people now, but both in developing them and how to market and position them, because you're a service to others, you're a product to others. And so it's the same thing that I do when I look at retelling someone's story. So I did it for a few years, then start to go through training. To become a certified coach, certified resume, resume writer, although, because people started, I thought I was going to just do coaching. And then people came to me for resume rewrites and other, other things along the way. And so 21, I finally looked at everything in terms of some of that side hustle that was going on, and what I was doing in corporate America. And I just went, I've got runway, I've got traction, I'm gonna retire. And focus on this full-time. And so since 2010, I've been focused on building my practice, working with people, working with small businesses as well, and retelling their story, getting unstuck from their careers, getting to the next place they want to be at. So it's been very— it's exciting. I get to pick and choose clients, projects I'm working on now. Um, but I, I get fulfilled through when my clients come back to me. It's like, like, hey, I landed that Johns Hopkins gig. Okay, great. Or I landed that C-suite, the CFO job. So, um, that's— and now I have clients bringing me in for their kids. So, um, so I'm on the other end now, kind of. Yes, getting, getting— and that's, um, job search, job impacts, AI, you name it. Like, that's a lot of interesting times for to find work.

We definitely live in very interesting times these days, especially with the rapid advancement of emerging technologies. So before the titles and the career agility system, who were you trying to become early in your career? And what did you misunderstand about success back then?

So at the— in the back of my head, it was I wanted to be on the C-suite somewhere. And I didn't know because I was moving out of programming, like maybe it would have been CTO, CIO. Just with the tech background I had. But I think what I— because I reflect on it still today on why did I burn out? Why did I stop and completely pivot to do something not exactly— people look at my background and my degree and go, how are you comp sci and a writer today? Well, I'm just— welcome to multi-hyphenated careers that's happening. Um, and I think where there were gaps is I don't— I never really had a true mentor and sponsor once I left the one company, um, that I was an entrepreneur in. I had great leaders and coaches then, but when I went off to start the— okay, when I find— get into a different tech company follow all these people. I never really sought out one, a sponsor or true mentor for me. So that was a gap in someone not giving me true, honest feedback of where my gaps were. But probably I lacked that executive presence. I lacked having influence with the C-suite, with the executives, and just not realizing that the points where it's kind of the what's in the sphere of your control. Focus on that. And anything outside of your control, you just need to let other people do their jobs and not try to do their jobs for them. So, um, and then just realizing the cultures that made sense for me and didn't make sense for me. Um, and that's where I would be, and I, with my clients, is just be more aware of what's the right culture. And, you know, short-term, certain cultures might be fine, but knowing what kind of culture you need to thrive and be successful, you know, is— I would be more cognizant of today. And I am now with the kinds of clients that I work with, is kind of understanding what kind of culture and dynamic they're coming from.

Wow, that is so fascinating. So you've built over 20 years of executive career in tech. What early leadership experiences most shaped how you lead and coach today?

So definitely the 8 years I was at— it's a company now called Lucian. I was lucky that the two gentlemen that hired me, um, they saw my potential. So they didn't expect me coming in to have already built a services organization or to triple revenue or to do all these things. Yes, they knew they were getting raw talent and potential and that they were willing to roll up their sleeves. And both of them— so it was like my direct boss and then his boss— both of them invested in me in terms of how I communicated, how I presented information, how I can get up in front of the annual sale global sales conference, how I can get up in front of like the, the biggest higher education tech conference that there is to be able to communicate effectively was one of the biggest things. And then coaching me on leading a team, managing, managing a team, growing talent, scaling an organization because it's services-based. It's very, you know, you've got to also look at numbers and, uh, utilization and things of that nature, um, and balance, right? Because sometimes it's like feast or famine, and you gotta balance people's, um, work-life balance.

Wow. So let's talk about you being a woman in tech. Now, I came to Silicon Valley in 2014, so about 12 years ago. Back then I was a senior security engineer, and then eventually I became a tech executive, but I've always noticed that I was almost always the one and only Black person in the room, and I didn't see a lot of women, especially in leadership role. Now, 12 years later, I see more and more women in leadership as well, but we still have, I think, a lot to, to do to really get more historically underrepresented minority at the table. So I guess my question for you, as a woman in tech, what leadership lessons did you have to learn the hard way that aren't taught in business school or onboarding program? And just to remind you, I think it was in 2014 when I first came in, there was an advertising about a woman being an engineer and a lot of white engineers in my company, they completely freaked out because in their eyes it's impossible for a woman to be engineers. That was in 2014. Like, this is like the 21st century. I'm like, you guys gotta be crazy. But anyway, so What have you learned as a woman in tech so far?

Well, I think that the, the biggest thing is you have to— there's more pressure for you to show value as fast as you can, um, because you're already undercut, undermined based on you don't— you didn't really go through a computer science, right? It's the whole like, you don't know how to code or program, which I did hear Back in the day, when I was in my first job, I don't think the architect realized I didn't have headphones on. And he said, "Women can't code." And I just went, "Oh, and I'm on your team." So, okay, great. But I think there's pressure to add value faster because I think when you're dealing with the mix of who's in the room, there's— and it's, and it's also the building the relationships piece. And I, and I, and it's different. Men have a different communication style and way to build relationships from women, and there's just a clash there. It's just, you've gotta— and you don't— back in the day, we were— we women were told just act like the men, right? You had women even dressing in the pantsuits and whatnot. Um, but that's not the solution either. You want everyone to bring out their best talents and strengths.. So I think you have to also double down on the relationship building with your peers. Even so, the other, the other fun dynamic is a lot, a lot of— and I don't know how much it's changed since I left, but there's also the notion of the female leaders being very cutthroat because they made it, they did it, they did it the guy's way, and they're not going to lift the next female executive up.. So you've also got that dynamic going on is it's not a sisterhood for us, right? Because in some ways it feels like, and if you think about how the tech industry started, right back Apple and Microsoft, right? It's a history of, and there's a book on the bro culture. I can't remember the exact name, but the notion of it was its own little good old boy network. Work that has had to come along and embrace diversity, embrace. But no one's taught anyone how to, how to do that. Like, there's no— back to the— there's no case study or, or book at HBS that's going to show you the way, um, and, and teaming, right? Um, I think some leaders get it and have intentionally did things to integrate leaders and bring in diverse leaders. Which are, you know, scaling and doing great versus those that aren't. And then those are the ones that you end up hearing about the toxic culture, the culture that, you know, spits out talent within, you know, 6 months. And that's where you have to get really conscious of the culture you're walking into.

That is so true. And sometimes I kind of joke, right? Of course, I am married to a woman and we have 2 daughters. And I tell people, if it wasn't for my dog, right, I would be the only male in my family. But And also, I guess my mother, I guess she was the first feminist I really knew. She taught me that not only women can do anything that men can do, but they do it so much better. And I think that's generally true. But I guess one follow-up question I have is, was there maybe a moment when you realized that performance alone wouldn't be enough to create fulfillment or sustainability?

Yeah, I think that was— I don't think I was at the last tech role I was in, but it was probably the second to last or third to last where I was just looking around going, this, this isn't fun anymore. Like, I've— I got to where— because I was a COO in a blockchain startup, we had fun. That was great culture, great vibe, just couldn't get the next round of funding. And then I went back into, um, a PE-backed tech company And it just wasn't fun anymore. Was it? And it was the same thing. It was, it was Groundhog Day, same thing every day. Nothing's changing, nothing's moving. Um, and, and I think I got— and this is the other thing I think happens to a lot of us, is we get comfortable and complacent.

Yeah.

And that's, that's a, that's a sign. That's a sign to go, this is— this— you can't stay because you're not growing, which means you're probably not adding the value you used to add, and that you're going to be seen as as weight that needs to go.

And what did that experience kind of teach you, if you're willing to share?

Yeah, well, I think it's the whole realizing I have to keep growing no matter what I'm doing. I have to keep learning and growing. I mean, I do now different certifications, different tools I put in my toolbox to add more value to my clients. Um, but I don't— I, I didn't have— I wasn't thinking about that. And it was back to needing to balance work and life with raising a family at that point, because the kids were now starting to get older. And it's, it's what do you prioritize? And sometimes you need, um, like I stayed at the one tech company for 8 years because that was the, the period in my life where, yes, I got married and I had kids, And so I needed complacency and some structure and some stability before going into, you know, a high-growth opportunity. So we all go through chapters and phases of our life, and I think I just didn't recognize I was back in that complacency spot and should have done something sooner.

Yeah. And you have spoken openly about burnout and hitting invisible ceiling, especially in Silicon Valley. That definitely has been our culture up to COVID. But unfortunately, it looks like we are going back to it. But how do leaders know when they are tired versus when they are misaligned, you think?

Oh, that's a great question. So that's a lot of just self-reflection on, you know, review your last week, last month, and go, were you just burning the midnight oil? Like, are you still Do you get up every day and you're still excited to do what you're doing, but maybe you're just working 12-hour days or going into the weekend? So that's, that's okay. What can I stop doing to get myself back? Or talk to your leadership about changing what your focus is on and what's not a priority or is a priority, right? So I think, I think if you're, you're burned out because you're just putting in too many cycles, you got to rearrange how you structure your workday and your workweek and get— figure out that. Now, if that's not— now, if that's happening or it's not happening and you wake up every day and go, wow, this is going to be another interesting day in not-so-paradise, right? It's, it's if you start to get to the, I'm not motivated to start the workday, I'm not motivated to go in, I'm, I'm— I, or I don't agree with leadership direction or changes, or I don't agree. But there is a point where, again, back to what's out of your control.

Yes.

Things can start to evolve around you in terms of culture priorities, business priorities, that you just start to go, "That's not the company I joined." Or, and I had one case, like the leader you came in to work for ended up— this happened a few times— ended up not being the one you worked for or became a revolving door. And you just go, "I'm tired of like new person, new priorities, new way of having to figure out how to work with them." And that's when you go, there's got to be something different out there. And maybe it's, it's the finding a different culture, finding the right manager for you, because, you know, most people leave companies because their managers is just finding that right. And that's hard. It's hard to do that in an interview process without having known the person or know people who know the person or have insiders in the company to really educate you or warn you of what you're walking into.

Well, actually, I think that's kind of important because now looking at your career, you've had an extraordinary career. It looks like you always, you had the courage, right, to jump, to move and to pivot and to reinvent yourself over and over again. Many people, they kind of are very, very afraid to do that. I know a lot of high performers who stay too long in an environment that's clearly wrong for them. And someone, one of my mentors used to tell me, you are not a tree, you've got feet, you can move, right? So why do smart people, capable leaders kind of struggle to leave and kind of what signal tells you someone is ready to pivot right now? And if they are afraid to admit it to themselves?

I think the number one thing is they're afraid of taking a few steps back to get to where they want to be next because they might have to take a different title or less pay. Like those are the two obvious ones. It might be having to start from bottom rung to work back up. Now you're not coming from no experience. You're not coming from starting at zero. But you're restarting to some extent. And so you may not— you may be the lowest person on the totem pole. Um, so I think that's, that's a big aspect of it. I think the other one is just the realization of, can you— or can you go out on your own? Like, you're, you're used to the comfort of a weekly or biweekly paycheck, your comfort of benefits. Like, you know, the construct of work because of how we structured work over the last so many years when we moved from farming to industrial and where we're at today. But we now have to think of work in a completely different— I mean, we happen, right? That's where in the video the gig economy has been. It's actually been around for a bit now, um, and that's what we have to like get our arms around is How can you run a company of one and add value, make an impact, get an income, you know, live the lifestyle you want, knowing that that's going to be, you know, more and more of those kinds of opportunities are going to come up? You can figure out how to stabilize living in that work construct.

Yes. Huh, that makes me wonder, what's the danger of of waiting when you know in your gut it's time for you to pivot and to move?

So, I—

health.

I mean, a lot of people are going to run into health issues if you wait too long. Um, missing opportunity, right? There's this like, yes, you might take a step or two back short term, but it could be 3x the gains in 2 to 3 years. And so, um, you're— you just have to get moving. You can't wait wait for the right shiny thing to come along. You just have to put yourself out there and start figuring out, well, what is it that I enjoy? What things can I solve? What would people want to hire me for or put— invest in me for? Those are the kinds of things you've got to start to reflect on and look at and look at again back to where you've been. What are your true superpowers and strengths that's transferable to different roles or industries?

Powerful. Now, there is one term you've made quite famous, popular, is career agility. You talk a lot about that. Of course, you have the Career Catalyst, which is pretty, pretty, pretty cool too. But what does that mean in practical leadership terms?

So, the essence of it is you are ready at the drop of a phone call, a conversation to pivot and go do something else. Which means you've got to have the right personal infrastructure in place to do that kind of pivot on a dime, right? You've got to have the right personal brand story, resume, LinkedIn profile. People want to— need to know who you are. You're going to need the social capital because a lot of this today, be it working for yourself or trying to find another job, it's your network, it's referrals. Um, the whole AI is kind of ruined the online job search, right? Recruiters are done. They were like, I'll just go source candidates off LinkedIn. So there's certain things that are really important, Ro, almost all the time. So if you could go make a phone call, go, hey, I'm available, or you're on the right platforms where recruiters are constantly tapping you on the shoulder for opportunities. That's what, that's what the point of career agility is and the system I've put in place to to have that.

Wow, that is really quite fascinating. And for leaders coming from structured environment or large enterprises like the military, what mindset shift is hardest when transitioning into a more fluid career path, you think?

Yeah, so it's the taking, taking back ownership of your, your path or your lattice, because a lot of people rely on, again, that corporate setting or that military setting, right? Because there's a lot of structure and a lot of feedback and a lot of guidance where you now need to own, well, I may not get feedback or guidance anymore. So you've got to figure out what those constructs are for you, but you've got to have the mindset. It's that growth mindset of get out there, go ask people, go talk to people. Go learn something new, but you've got to completely own getting the feedback, seeking feedback, seeking structures. So you've got to be curious. That's another— you're going to be really curious on where the opportunities lie, where my gaps of self-awareness, where my gaps are in getting myself out there, because no one's going to identify them.

That is quite powerful because you've also said that the right message plus the right approach equal more opportunities. So why do so many leaders struggle to articulate their own value, especially female? I would, I would say in my experience, for example, my, my daughters, before they apply for a job, they want to be 100% qualified to the job description. Somebody like me, if I'm 45% qualified, I go ahead and apply for it. So that's a big difference.

That's a big difference. So, um, most people struggle to really articulate what they do for who, the value they provide, because that's not what they do day in and day out. Like, they do a specific function and job that they've been trained in or educated or got the experience on. They're not storytellers. You're not a story, and you don't have on the, you know, on a piece of paper the exact questions you need to ask yourself to reflect on and uncover what makes you you. Like, what's your secret sauce or your formula that people hire you for? If you think about, like, who's hired you over the years, Yes, you're solving a problem for that, for that boss, that future boss, that future company, that future organization. They see something, and it's going to get even more important on the communications going forward because you've got to be exact. And I hear you have these strategic problems. I've done this before. Here's examples that I've done. You've got to just be like, okay, you're looking for this, I've done this, this, and this, because you're competing with people who've done this, this, and this. And the person who's going to ultimately get the opportunity is the one who can better present themselves. It's not the one with the most experience, it's the one who can better communicate that they know what they're doing and can get the job done.

Yes. Wow. So how should leaders then think differently about personal branding without it feeling like self-promotional or inauthentic?

Yeah, and that's, that's the really reflecting on what they, what they do, um, and putting it in a way that's more, more of like business sense. Like, where did I improve revenue or quality? I usually look at numbers. So like, was there a revenue impact, a cost savings, a quality, um, where did you enable talent, like grow talent, promote talent, spin up teams, But you've got to just look very objective at what have you actually accomplished? Because that's true. That's facts, right? It's not like you're stretching the truth. It's like getting into the facts. And so sometimes I'll have clients, if they're struggling with this, go off and go, okay, look, look at your LinkedIn profile. If you've got some recommendations on there, reread them. Pull out what other people are saying about you. If you don't have recommendations, go look at if you have performance reviews from work, go Pull back some of your recent performance reviews and look at the comments and see what people are saying about you. And if you have none of that, go talk to former boss, some colleagues, and ask for— get uncomfortable and ask for feedback.

Wow. So another thing you teach is leadership without title. What does real influence really look like when you don't have positional authority or power?

Yeah, so that's a big— and especially when I work with young professionals, is I think a lot of young professionals get tied up in the 'I must have a title to be able to be a leader,' where that's— it's the reverse. You need to put yourself out there before you have this— the breadth, the depth of the responsibilities— and make an impact. It's all about influence and impact. And so Where can you improve someone else's chances of success?

Right?

So it's the always thinking about who you're serving internally and how you can assist them or assist the organization more so than like even what you're doing. You've got to have the mindset of who am I helping today or where in the organization am I helping and taking the initiative or asking for Where can I be of more service or value based on what you've already been doing in the organization?

Makes sense. And for this question, I'm really thinking about my daughters, but how can leaders advocate for themselves without crossing into this ego or entitlement? Again, for my daughters, usually, if you make them an offer, the first offer you give them is exactly what they're going to take. They don't ask for more. But somebody like me, I'm always going to ask for more because worst thing that's going to happen, I'm going to get the offers that says on the letter, good enough. But if not, they may meet me halfway or give me exactly what I, what I requested. So how would you advise leaders to advocate for themselves?

Yeah, so I mean, the biggest thing is always ensuring you've got alignment and visibility to your direct leader, your boss, on where you are, what you've accomplished, what the team is accomplishing. And then in a lot of cases, you also need to build relationships with, you know, one and two layers up in the organization to begin to get sponsors, right? So that's how you're gonna move ahead or move and get more responsibilities is, yes, your, your direct boss needs to also be a champion for you, but you often need other levels of leadership that recognize again, the value you're bringing to the org, not what you do or who you are. Yeah, great resume. It's like, what, what have you done for the organization that says you're ready for the next level, or that says you can transfer, get more responsibilities? Um, is, is, is what you, you really need to do. And, uh, be able to have conversations when you're burning out. Hey, this is, this is overload. Can we hire more staff? Can we reprioritize things?

Yes.

Um, so you've got to be much more mindful of, um, taking control of your time and influencing when that burnout is starting to happen, to be vocal.

Hmm. So what would you then advise a senior engineer listening now, or a military officer? They feel like they are ready for the next step up and take on a leadership position, but they do feel overlooked by their bosses and the organization.

So the biggest thing is willing to have a conversation with their direct leader on the perception because a lot of times individuals are not promoted until they've actually already done the work. And so it might be a conversation more geared on, um, I'm excited to be here, I feel like I've delivered a lot of value, I believe I'm ready for more responsibilities.

Yes.

And then let that— your leader give you feedback on here's what you need to do to, to get to that place, or here's where you're falling short. Because again, a lot of us may not be completely self-aware of our value within an organization. But that's back to keeping that communication with your direct leader on where you want to be in your career so they can find opportunities to get you the exposure and the experience you need to get to that next place. And it was very similar when I was early on I vocalized I wanted to be a project manager, and so they crafted an opportunity for me to be the junior PM under a very senior PM on a project. And that's what you have to— back to that advocating for yourself and what you want in your career and what you're interested in. You've got to, you've got to have open communications with your direct leader.

That is so true. Let's talk a little bit about women, mentorship, and building the next generation, something I'm quite passionate about. Now, you are the co-founder of the Alliance of Technology and Women, and I think you have a huge, huge impact. You've launched a program for girls in tech. So why do you think it's so important for early exposure, and sponsorship is so critical?

Well, and why I worked on the Girls in Tech program is girls start to fall off of wanting to pursue STEM education and then, you know, ongoing careers in middle school. Like, that's, that's been a trend. It's a known statistic, um, because they're not getting exposed to the right role models or the right educational programs or the right, you know— yes, because a lot of, um, what, what has somewhat changed is the emphasis in a STEM career of we want to make an impact on society a lot of times, right? It's not just a, I want a big corporate job, I want a paycheck. For a lot of girls, young ladies, women, it's we want to have some sort of impact. And so now it's, you know, you talk about a tech career, it's like how what you build can impact a community or impact some population, right? So it's— or improving the human, you know, the user experience. And that's why you see A lot of women gravitate towards certain roles within the tech industry because it's more attuned to where we naturally have skills and capabilities, um, that set us apart. So, um, so it's just really important that you get more role models and exposure to the different parts that you could take part in, in tech. It's not just having to be a programmer. It's not the old school, we're gonna sit in a lab for 80 hours and sling code. It's very different now. A lot, and again, thinking about talents, a lot of women move into leadership roles or project management, program management roles because we're the glue. We can kind of be the connector of a lot of different things. And so just getting women aware of all the different possible paths and possibilities that exist today.

Yeah, I guess another question I'd like to ask is, you mentioned earlier, when you first started your career, you really didn't have any mentors or sponsors, and many times you were the only woman in the room. So what's the difference between mentorship and sponsorship, and why do you think leaders need both?

So to me, a mentor is someone who's going to be frank, give you feedback, share examples of their personal experiences, and what, you know, learn from their experience, like trials and tribulations. A sponsor is more someone who recognizes your potential and what you're capable of doing and is willing to champion you within an organization. They may not get to know you. You're not going to tap them for advice and guidance. You're going to tap them for visibility and exposure to potential promotion paths, potential projects, potential opportunities. You're not necessarily leveraging a sponsor for, you know, deep ongoing hands-on mentor, like coaching and guidance. That, that's where I see the difference in the mentor and the sponsor within especially larger organizations.

Yeah. And I guess right now we are definitely living in the age of artificial intelligence. It's pretty much affecting every industry. What would you advise someone who's finishing school now about want to start their first job career, what is one thing you think they should really focus on and get good at, the skill they need to develop in order to thrive in the age of AI?

They need to understand how AI can enable them to do their role faster, more efficiently, and more effective. Um, every— at this point, it's no longer about AI literacy, it's about AI enablement. Um, so they got to figure out what, which tool they like to use, what, what, you know, and it's basics, right? Brainstorming, better documentation, right? Everyone's got to communicate in, in a job. So I would just start to understand where AI can make you more successful in the role you're going to play.

Powerful. All right, so let's go to the last segment where I focus more just leadership principle and some of the lessons you've learned that our audience might benefit from. Maybe to get started, what do you think is the greatest lesson you have ever learned in leadership, in life in general?

So it was a comment— the, the two gentlemen I worked for, it was the comment by one of them, and it was before I had kids, that I will learn the most about leadership raising a family.

Hmm. Wow. That's powerful. And what do you think is the secret of your success? You've had quite an extraordinary career from being a tech executive, B2B, and now with all of the coaching you do. Why do you think you are so successful?

So two traits come to mind. One, and it's a— we— you do all the personality assessments, right? I did the DiSC assessment. And mine was interesting over a decade ago. And I, and I have a trait with another HR leader we talked about, but I'm a, I'm a Chameleon. So I can, I have a bit of everything in DiSC. It's, it's, it's even. And so I can naturally pivot how I collaborate with someone or work with someone or get into a new room and a new relationship. Because I, I read the room, I read them. Um, which then also takes me to, um, and when I was going through that reflective exercise a few years ago and, and kind of focusing what I was going to work on, people say I am very insightful because I take the time to listen and understand situations, understand people, understand data, and then come up with— and it's what I do today, right? I kind of look at all data dump my clients give me and come up with the insights about one's career, about one's business, or where are things going. And so, um, I think the other thing that's assisted me in, you know, not just doing things in business but navigating my career, um, others in navigating their careers or navigating their businesses as well.

Well, I, I really love following you on LinkedIn. You really add a lot of value Here are some of your quotes. Maybe you can unpack some of them for us. You said, "It's not about fitting in. True opportunity comes from the courage to be yourself." Can you unpack that for us? Why is it important to be oneself?

Because if you're not yourself, you're going to burn out. You're going to be misaligned to who you're working with, the opportunity. Yeah, there's the saying, "Fake it till you make it," but you might not make it when you're doing work that it's not you. So even going into interviews, going to meet people for the first time, it's, it's the— because if you fake it, especially in the interview process, you basically set yourself up for failure for whatever job that you're applying for. So you really need to be you.

So powerful. Simple, so powerful. You also said you are 14 times more likely to get an interview with a referral, internal referral, feel 40 8% of roles. Wow.

That's an industry stat for probably early last year. I don't know if they've updated the numbers, but that is an industry stat. And why I work with people on— you can't— don't apply to jobs online. Like, go talk to people, go grow your network, get referrals through others. Um, we take our— we take our, um, hands off the wheel of growing our social capital, which is like the part of our network that's the I help you, you help me kind of thing. Because we get into this, you know, work-life balance, too busy. I'm an introvert. There's ways you can network for introverts today. So, yeah, that's what that's coming from.

Powerful. I want to do one more. You said, "Success is often just beyond the moment you feel like quitting. Keep going. Your breakthrough is closer than you think." Wow.

Yeah, so, so I think a lot of us don't— there, we don't know what that end looks like. And this is where it's— see, this is all a journey. There is no one destination. There's multiple milestones and destinations along the journey. I think you just have to— you're gonna wake up one day or get the feedback you need to go That's the right next thing, or I shift to something different. But it's that you have to keep going and getting momentum to get the clarity on what is that thing that's next for you.

And also maybe to encourage someone who's watching now, I really like what, what you say. Success may just be beyond the moment you feel like quitting. There are a few people I know, extremely qualified, they would get hired Within a moment when the economy goes well, but things happening now, people being laid off all over the place, it's a little bit more difficult to— they feel like, okay, I've already applied for 100 jobs, I'm overqualified for all of those positions, not even a single interview, and they feel completely defeated and they want to quit. What would you tell them?

I would, one, just breathe, take it, take a few days off from what you've been doing, and then think about what have you not not tried? What have you not done? The other thing too is reflecting on— well, you— if you're overqualified, why aren't you applying for the jobs that you are aligned to, right? So I think we get into this mode of I just needed the next job versus I need to put my whole self out there. Um, and a lot of times especially now, what you're looking for isn't online. You need, uh, someone to find you, find out about you. So why it's so important, yes, why I ask about like what people have been doing in their job searches— well, how present are you on LinkedIn? And, you know, is your profile really optimized for what is it you're, you're wanting to do next? Are you engaging with the right people on LinkedIn, on the— in the right groups on LinkedIn? There's so many active groups on LinkedIn. Like, I'm in one, Women in Tech one, and there's constantly jobs being posted because they're trying— the recruiters are very intentional about recruiting more women in tech, recruiting more women in STEM. So there's so many parts and pieces that make up finding opportunity today that is beyond the job board. Like, so the first thing I try to get them in is like, shift your mindset. Take the hour you spend every day on the job board and focus on direct outreach, networking, talking to people.

Thanks so much, Jimmy. That's definitely worth the price of admission for those listening right now. That's powerful. So as a young leader, I know leaders are learning. What are you learning right now these days?

So I just finished up my resume writing certification. So that's finally like off, off. Thank you. Off the off the to-do list. Um, so I am working a lot more on, um, time management, energy focus, energy, um, and just navigating what, what's that next certification, like what's the next tool on my toolbox I really need to go focus on. Um, you know, and I've been using AI in a lot of my work over the last 18 months Uh, but it's, it's then also going to be continuing to look at where else can I apply it for efficiency, for maybe bringing tools to life for my own clients. Um, so, so that's what is staying on top of AI, staying on top of what I need to do to make myself more efficient, um, higher quality delivery. Um, I don't think I'll ever have like the Jamie AI coach available like That's not— I might have tools to assist a client, but not, not that. So that's what I'm trying to— is learning is where do I want AI in practice within my business, uh, and then just always continuing to listen to more books and things, guidance, advice on, you know, what's on top of mind for leaders today, what's top of mind, um, because I still coach a lot of, of leaders and executives, not just doing their branding work, but actually assisting them with managing a multi-generational workforce and how to keep all the balls moving and get everyone aligned and without, you know, losing staff.

So that is, uh, pretty, pretty cool. I think LinkedIn co-founder, uh, Reid Hoffman, I believe he has an AI twin now who actually goes around and makes presentations, live presentations in conferences and stuff. It's It's amazing how people can use artificial intelligence. And I think he was the first human being to co-write a book with ChatGPT, which he gives away for free. But anyway, I'm just excited to live in this period of history. It's quite fascinating what people can do. So we talk about your successes and we know them. What about failure? In my opinion, it looks like failure and success are really two sides of the Sam Cohen. And, uh, what has failure— uh, how has failure shaped your life?

Yeah, I, I think for me, the failures maybe around not getting a job, losing a job, um, was just the reality of that wasn't meant for me, that wasn't the right place I was supposed to be at that point in time. Learned and then learning the, the whole, well, that why was I even here that long? Because I got complacent, right? I got stagnant. I wasn't growing. I wasn't adding value. I wasn't making the impact that organizations were looking for me to deliver. So that would— and then, you know, from time to time losing quality talent, but a lot of it's more about like them actually moving on to a bigger and better opportunity. So again, it's the two, right? It's not quite a failure because you gave them what they needed. And so it's a success because you were able to help someone move on to what was next for them.

Yeah. And what did you learn from those experiences?

Just to, you know, have a half day or a day of pity and grievance and move on, right?

Yes.

You, you've got to just move on, right? There's— you don't need to think twice about it, right? Because I think a lot of us, we played the victim card, like, I was just a victim of XYZ. Yeah, you really just have to move on. What's next in your career, your life, and, and keep moving.

Yeah, and they get stuck into the past instead of looking forward. Like, I know one of my mentors told me, like, you know, when you are in, in the car, the rearview mirror is very, very small, but the windshield is very, very big. So you really need to be focused on where you are going. Powerful. So if you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, they could be alive, dead, or even mythical figures, who would you choose and why?

So Oprah. I just, I love her story of where she's been and kind of where she's, she is, and she's made a great name for herself and, and how she's navigated things.

Tomo?

Yes. So why isn't— why am I blanking on the name? She created the Lean In movement. The—

oh yes, I know who you're talking about. Actually, I have, uh, Facebook CEO. Yes, I have a picture of her here.

But yes, so I think that because she did start a movement, uh, it's not This is the promise of movements, is like they have a lifespan or— and then they're done, right? And just kind of like that isn't a lot of what we're looking at today. And then I'd probably go back to my first teacher that really invested in me back in middle school because that's when I got into being a math whiz and all that.

Man, that is, that is great.

Where I've come.

Sheryl Sandberg.

Yeah, Sheryl Sandberg.

Yes, yes. Because I just interviewed 4-star General Larry Spencer, and I remember he takes pictures with all kinds of celebrities and important people. Pretty, pretty cool. Wow. And let me ask you this. Is there maybe a song, a book, or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

So my life's theme, and it's, it's actually a little ironic because my parents named me after her, is the Bionic Woman.

So, wow.

And it's spelled J-A-I-M-E because that Jamie Sommers spells her name J-A-I-M-E as well.

Wow, cool. Because in French, J-A-I-M-E means I love. So it's pretty, pretty, pretty cool. All right. If you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

To actually see that tech companies, actually the leadership, it's 50/50, right? You've got men and women equally at the table, equally working together, knowing how to collaborate, work together, like to actually have parity. I mean, I've been just tech, just in general in corporate America, to have some parity of, of boards and leaders, um, that brings in a divorce— a diverse, uh, group of people.

But I don't know, I, I guess I'm a little bit frazzled by it. We almost had a woman president twice in this country. It's 2025, right? 21st century. But it looks like America is just not ready for it yet. Like I I have two daughters. And today in 2025, women still make what, about 80% of what men make for the same exact job, same background, same everything. So what, what, what do you think is wrong? We're supposed to be the leader of the world, right? Home of the brave, land of the free. Why, why do you think we are not quite there yet?

I think we are not one, identifying who has the capability and properly getting them ready to serve at that level. There's no way, like, looking back on those two elections— one, yeah, maybe was close, but we, we did not invest the resources, the time. There was no strategy, right? There were things that you can go and like, who, who was there in the party to give her what she needed to be successful. So yeah, it's shame on a group of people. It's not— and I think it's just what's broken right now of, of politics in America today.

Because definitely as a father, I would like to think that my daughters would live in a better America than I lived in, that they're not going to be judged by their gender, uh, definitely not, but not by the character and what they can actually contribute equally whether they're male or female. But anyway, so if you had a magic wand, you could solve any problem at all, what is one problem you'd like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

Making sure my kids could just get to school on their own. That would be great. I could sleep in. I didn't have to get up at 5:15, 5:30, everything together and get them to like— if they could just There's a way that the magical Uber showed up, all their food was ready. It's like The Jetsons, right? Everything's done for them.

Hmm. Wonderful. So we are coming toward the end of this episode. What can we do to add value back to you?

Yeah. So definitely follow me, engage with me on LinkedIn. Noted earlier, I do post a few times a week. I've got a weekly newsletter I post. I've got polls I put out there. That helps assist me on, again, the insights. Hop on to my website, join my mailing list where I'll push out more content and promotion of— I do a weekly webinar on different topics and best practices for people's careers, and I do a lot of joint collaborations and bring in some other perspective as well going into 2026. So yeah, follow me, engage with me on LinkedIn. Don't be shy if you want to have a one-on-one with me. It's very easy. To book a session with me as well online.

Wow, that is wonderful. And that's LinkedIn, uh, Shambron, so very easy. And your website, careeragilitysystem.com. Thank you. Thank you so much. So, uh, let me see if I can ask you maybe one of the most important questions I ask my guests. If you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had, What would you say to 17-year-old Jamie?

Don't be afraid to reach out and talk to people. I think that's a big thing I didn't get over till much later in my career.

Wow. Okay. So, to end this, it's going to take less than 2 minutes. We're going to do a lightning round. No, rapid fire. Don't think too long. Just whatever comes out of your brain. So, one word that defines great leadership.

Oh shoot, communication.

Okay, what is a morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

Gym workout.

Okay, a book or a quote that changed your life?

Uh, Zig Ziglar, "You don't have to be great to get started, but you gotta start to be great." Oh, talking about book really, really quickly, I know we're out of time, but you talked about Eden potential?

Why should my audience read this book?

It unpacks how to think about just getting the most, the best out of a team. They write, the sum is greater than its parts. So a lot of great tips and stories on uncovering what you, especially a leader, uncovering the talent you really have.

And this book has already been recommended at least 6 times last season, season 4 of this podcast. And you also mentioned this one, uh, Brotopia: Breaking Up the Boys Club of Silicon Valley.

Yes, that was the, the book I was thinking of earlier on. Just, it's a fascinating read. Fascinating.

Fantastic. All right, so, uh, who inspired you most today?

Today it's probably my, my parents.

Yes, fantastic. So, uh, A leadership habit that you refuse to compromise on?

Time management, time blocking.

Perfect. And the question every leader should ask themselves frequently?

Am I adding the most value to where I'm at?

Powerful. So what did you want to be when you were a kid?

I was working towards being the head of the Department of Education. Of the US.

Wow, that's— I've never heard somebody say that.

That was the dream, was the dream.

But yes, well, it looks like they may just get rid of it soon. But anyway, uh, 3 adjectives describing you as a child.

Oh, as a child, um, quiet, inquisitive, um, focused.

As an adult?

Curious, uh, community builder or collaborator, and, um, gosh, one more, in tune.

Very good. Okay, I always like to leave with an optimistic note. What is something you are feeling optimistic about right now?

Just the year 2026. I am feeling positive that this is going to be a much better year than '25. I think most people felt the impacts, and if you didn't, I don't know, I don't know what's wrong, but I think some impacts career or personally in '25. That's, it's up and on from here.

The, the economy. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you, thanks so much. So very, very last question and we are done. What is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today?

Fun.

It was fun. Good.

I'm so grateful, Jamie Shambon. Thank you so much for being here and being one of our master teachers, and really, really grateful for the work you do. And I hope many people in the audience really reach out to you because now is the time to add a career catalyst with everything going on with the economy right now. This couldn't be more timely. Thanks again.

Thank you.

Have a great afternoon.

Thank you. All right, everybody, that was Jamie Shambon. So again, I hope you follow her on LinkedIn and her website as well. And again, the website is LinkedIn, Shambron, so very easy to find, and careeragilitysystem.com. And she's working on a book. I believe it's gonna be a number one New York Times bestselling book. Whenever the book is published, hopefully this year, I would like to have her back and we can talk about it and help her sell more books. Okay, so I want to remind everyone, I'll be back here tomorrow. I will be speaking about Proverbs chapter 16. This is not a religious broadcast, it's just focusing on the wisdom of the Book of Proverbs, right? Ancient wisdom mentoring from the Book of Proverbs. We're going to be focusing on leadership lesson. So something I started this month, so we are doing this until the end of January. There are 31 chapters in that book, so we do one chapter a day. This morning we did chapter 15, tomorrow we're going to do chapter 16, and the day after we're going to do chapter 17 until we are done. So hope you can join me for the special, um, edition of the Leadership Success Podcast. And tomorrow I will have a great pleasure of speaking with Colonel Josh Hartzell. He's a medical doctor, US Army retired, a combat physician and an educator. And he is the bestselling author of A Prescription for Caring in Healthcare Leadership. So we're gonna be speaking tomorrow. And then on Sunday, I will be speaking with, let me see, Major, okay, I don't see him here. Anyway, I'm going to be speaking to an Army major. I believe his name is Chris Slininger. That's going to be on Sunday afternoon. I believe we're going to do that at 2:30 PM Pacific time. So 5:30 PM Eastern time. All right. That's all I have planned for you today. So hopefully I see you tomorrow for the leadership conversation with Colonel Josh Hartzell. Thank you for watching the Leadership and Success Podcast. Bye for now.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach Bisi. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.