S5:E21🎙️ LIVE with MAJ Chris Slininger, U.S. Army 🇺🇸🪖(Multi Tracks Audio)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple, to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with co-host BZ.

Hi, Chris here, founder of the Army Junior Officer Council, or AJOC. AJOC is more than a committee, it's a community built by junior officers for junior officers. Our mission is to drive real change in our Army by focusing on warfighting and Continuous transformation, delivering ready combat formations. Through mentorship, professional development, and open communication, we're preparing junior officers to lead in transformation and warfighting. Together, we're delivering combat-ready formations and strengthening the Army profession by connecting your voice directly to senior leaders. Be a part of the change. Connect with AJOC today, and let's shape the future of our force.

All right, everyone, welcome to another edition of the Leadership and Success Podcast. I have a very special guest today. But first, let's do as is our custom, a moment of gratitude. This is where we spend just a moment to be grateful for something every single time we meet. And part of the reason why we do this is because in the military, about 21 service members commit suicide every single day. And I believe it's impossible to be suicidal and grateful at the very same time. So if you would, as is our custom, would you please maybe close your eyes and kind of think about— put yourself in your happy place, maybe take a deep breath and think about one thing that you are grateful for right now. And I think for me, I am just grateful for grace. Some people call it favor, some people call it, I don't know, just destiny, I guess. I am just grateful that no matter what it is or what people call it, but I feel like there's always been a presence in my life throughout my entire life. That's why I know that some way, somehow things are always going to work out. It doesn't matter if I start at the very bottom as a seaman recruit E-1 in the Navy, and eventually I will be a senior officer, a commander. It doesn't matter if I start in the tech industry as a tech assistant, eventually I'm gonna be a chief information security officer or a tech executive. So things always work out for me somehow, and I'm very, very grateful for that, for that presence, for that grace. So let us know what you are grateful for and type it in the comment. And also let me know where you are joining us from, what city, what state, and if outside of the US, which country. And also if you have a question for my guest today, please type it in the comment and we will answer your question live. All right, let me see if I can properly introduce our guest today. So today I'm gonna be speaking with Major Chris Slininger. So, Chris is the founder and director of Army Junior Officer Council. Like I showed in the introductory video, he's a James M. Derbek Writing Fellow, Army University Press Director of Programs, Military Mentors, and advocate for mentorship, professional writing, and people-centered leadership. If you remember, we actually interviewed two other people from Military Mentor, Colonel Chevy Cook, and also Lisa Fan. Last week. So great, great organization, and I really love talking to them. So Chris's leadership philosophy blends trust, decentralization, curiosity, and service, and challenges our large institutions to think about developing the next generation of leaders. So please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, Chris Slinger. All right, good afternoon, Chris. How are you doing today?

Doing well. How about you?

Fantastic. Just to get things started, uh, is there something you are grateful for today?

Uh, I mean, there's a lot that I'm grateful for today. Um, one, there's a little bit of snow on the ground, um, coming from Maine. I like it when there's cold— it's cold and there's snow. Uh, but yesterday I was running— or Friday I was running along the Mount Vernon Trail, um, next to George Washington's estate. So just, that was a I'm very grateful that I get to be in this area doing that. Yeah, on my weekends to go, go do a run next to the Founding Fathers. Yeah, home and along the Potomac.

So that's really awesome.

Definitely something I'm grateful for.

There is nothing like it. Of course, I come from California, we don't have any snow here in San Francisco Bay Area, and actually the winter looks almost like summer or spring at times, which is pretty cool, I guess. But, uh, That's good, good to hear. Is there maybe, uh, something about you that most people may not know when they first meet you?

Oh, um, I mean, I'm a giant nerd. Um, I like to be at home doing nerdy things. Um, it takes a lot to pry me out of the house to go do things. Um, but my job does a pretty good job at that, so People might not know that I don't like going out and about and doing things. Wow.

So maybe you can tell us briefly kind of about your leadership journey, how you got to become a major in the most powerful army in the world.

I mean, that's a long story. Because first I was, I was gonna go into the Navy because I watched Top Gun when I was young. And I wanted to be, you know, Pete Mitchell, Maverick, flying Tomcats and and be incredible that way. Um, but the Navy did two things, uh, they got rid of the Tomcat and they didn't have Colin Powell. So I was, uh, my senior year of high school, I was, um, sitting in Tim Hortons because Maine, um, reading My American Journey.

Mm-hmm.

Thought that was awesome. Decided that day that I was gonna go talk to the Army ROTC folks and how to join the Army. Um, so I switched from going into the Navy, um, straight up to going into the Army, and I've enjoyed every minute of it.

So that's wonderful. I think Top Gun is probably responsible for the most recruiting in the Navy than any other movie. It's pretty impressive. But sailors do look really good in their white strokers or service dress blues. It's just, uh, Amazing. Every time I travel in uniform, people think I am a pilot or something. I mean, I just— just for the uniform, I think I would join the Navy all over again. Pretty impressive. Well, it looks like we've got, uh, let me see, uh, Gilberto Martinez is joining from Maryland. I'm grateful for the National Guard in Indiana. Wow. To support the youth challenge academy to help teens with structure and discipline. My son is there now. Thank you so much for your service. Gilberto and your son as well. And also let us know if you have a question for our major, for Chris. Thank you. Thanks so much. I really do appreciate that. And by the way, I love to be interrupted by these comments on LinkedIn and YouTube because when I first started this about what, 5 years ago, I was really in the audience of one, right? Me, myself and I. Nobody I think ever heard the very first episode I did. But now that it's kind of gone global, I really love it. Interaction. So let's go back. It looks like there is a book that had a significant effect on you. I think I have a copy of that here. I know it is a book that was recommended on the Leadership Success podcast. Right now, I think we have more than 250 books just as of last year, the people coming on the show and recommending books. So it's by Steve and Covey, but that one is for adults. But the one you're talking about, is the version by Tim. I believe that was written by his son, Sean Covey. But anyway, so you've said that your leadership journey started at age 11 with The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teams. That's pretty amazing. What stuck you then that still guides you today as a field grade officer?

Oh, I mean, being proactive, beginning with the end in mind. Those are two things that when I read that as an 11-year-old seemed to have stuck with me for the past 20-some-odd years. It's just always being proactive and trying to imagine the end because then I can work my way backwards from there.

That is quite amazing. Really, they are simple, but they could potentially change somebody's life. And of course, things that are simple are not always easy, but it does make sense for. I know when I read that book, one thing that it really helped me do is active listening. Like, people, they listen so they can respond instead of understanding, and that's a big, big difference. And if you can just learn that skill, I think it's gonna help you get along far. It's quite amazing. Okay, we have another one joining from Texas. Grateful for the opportunity to work alongside Chris. Army Junior Officer Council on driving change within the Army. Now, I can't tell his name here. Do you know who Tyler is?

Tyler.

Very good. All right, thank you so much, Tyler. Really appreciate that. If you have a question for Chris, please, uh, let us know. I, I really love this. So how did experience like Eagle Scout, Civil Air Patrol, and later ROTC shape how you view responsibility before authority?

Yeah. So they were phenomenal proving grounds for, for being, being a leader. If, if I frame it after Reflection is the proactiveness that I got from that book also leads me to be as a, as a young leader, brand new, potentially overbearing. Especially when you talk volunteers and stuff. I took— I take things very seriously. So I took Civil Air Patrol, I took Scouts as like a full-time job, like I was getting paid to do it, and everybody else was. So I learned a lot of lessons there of like having to work with peers, having to adjust my expectations of how people move about doing things. And control that throttle better, which I think really let me relax a little bit before I became an LT. If I didn't have that learning experience, I would have been the LT that every soldier hates because I would have been like, ah, we're going to do it this way, we're going to do it my way, I'm not going to listen. So the ability to listen, the ability to accomplish the mission while still Moving people forward but not at a crushing speed.

Wow, that's really leadership. In the green room, you, you told me a story, if you don't mind sharing, about your, your father and why you joined the Eagle Scout in the first place.

Yep, um, yep. So that was a family requirement. I think my brother got, uh, my older brother was able to slip through the requirement, but, um, it was you must have your Eagle Scout before he'll sign off on your driver's license. Wow. Again, being proactive, beginning with the end in mind. I was right on that, going from, you know, Tenderfoot all the way to Eagle Scout as quickly as I could so I could get my driver's license.

That is really amazing. I believe in the Eagle Scout, you like earn patches, right, to different level and achievement. That's really good. I think it kind of prepares you for real life too. And also my understanding is you could pretty much be left in the woods somewhere and you would survive. You're going to be able to feed yourself or keep yourself alive.

Yeah, uh, growing up in Maine, being, being a scout, doing a solar patrol, um, I'm much more comfortable in the woods. Wow, awesome. The Pentagon very quickly. Yes, because I don't— cubicles, corridors, I don't get. But I can find my way in the woods pretty easily.

That is definitely lessons that you will not learn in a class, classroom. That is wonderful. And I kind of like the way also, you've been impacting what you learned from this book, the 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teams. I'm assuming you've read the full book from Stephen Covey, right? Stephen Covey of Effective People.

I've read that one. I've read the adult version.

Yes.

So, absolutely great book.

Pretty much the same lesson. It is really fascinating. I did ask my daughter to read that when she was a teenager, but I don't think she was very much interested, which is okay. I won't hold it against her. But it's really amazing to me how those simple lessons, you can apply them throughout your entire life and career. And it can definitely have a huge impact. So you want to transition from field artillery to military intelligence early in your career. What leadership lesson did that shift teach you about adaptability and learning curves?

I think, I think you have to learn lessons a few times over. I got really comfortable with Force Com or the, the combat arms part of the Army. And then I showed up to my first unit as a, as an intel officer and it was 51% civilian. And that was like just getting slammed on the brakes. Like we move at a different speed here. Um, so again, having to readjust, re, um, reacquaint myself with how the op tempo went. Um, that also really, cause you get comfortable, you know, ROTC, you're Um, I call it the winners effect. You know, ROTC, everybody's going to be Dick Winters leading Easy Company.

Yes.

Um, and then we get to changing units, changing echelons of leadership, and we got to realize like, okay, now we need to understand how we create networks, how we, um, create these systems and processes to keep the, the operations going whether or not you're there.

Wow, that is Pretty cool. Now correct me if I'm wrong, in the Army pretty much every single soldier is an expert in artillery, right? You have to be qualified with the M9 and M16, no?

No, no, uh, I mean, yeah, M9, M16, yes. Um, that's the artillery, is the big cannons, so, okay, um, not, not the, the personal weapons. So that's, uh, we're on Paladins, M109, Alpha 6s. So, um, as my wife likes to call them to annoy me, they're, uh, they're tanks. Okay, okay, but they're not tanks, they're indirect.

Okay, but, but at least on the personal weapons, every soldier has to be qualified. You can stay in the Army if you are not, correct? Correct.

Yeah, to be able to pass your—

that is what I thought, because, uh, after 9/11, I wanted to join the military, so I talked to all agencies— the Army, the Marines, the Air Force, and, uh, the Navy— but it didn't take me very long to find out that, uh 'You guys, soldiers and the Marines, you're kind of crazy.' And that wasn't really my strong suit. I'm like, 'No, I want to use my brain more than I want to use my muscles.' So it was between the Navy and the Air Force. And I think maybe Tom Cruise's movie probably was a little bit biased, I guess, Top Gun, and I ended up with the Navy. But it was a great, great experience. And I must tell you, I know the Army is the oldest branch of the US military because you guys were there from the very beginning, you know, 1776. And, uh, yeah, okay, okay, a year before our independence. That is, that is correct. And, uh, a lot of leadership, uh, uh, discipline and doctrine and all of that the Army developed eventually found its way to the Navy too, which is pretty Pretty cool. Like, I remember when I went to boot camp, we learned about the orders of the century and all of that. And then later I found out it's pretty much copied from the Army. That's where we got all of that. So that is kind of fun. But of course, when it comes to football, I am Go Navy, beat Army. So let me just ask you, how do you feel about your loss this past college football game? Oh, that's my one point only, right?

Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm not an academy person, so that's— I get to be like, I'm not an academy person, so I need to be better at football.

Um, yeah, but I mean, it's, it is, it is, it is kind of fun. I don't think there is such huge competition between the Navy and the Air Force Academy, but with the Army, we, we always play with, with you guys every year. It's a lot of fun. Okay, we also have, uh Fiorella joining from Fort Benning, Georgia. Grateful for all the opportunities I got the chance to take advantage, thanks to the US Army. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, because another question I wanted to, to ask you, Chris, especially for the junior officer and enlisted who watch the show. One thing I've realized as a senior officer is many times our service members don't take full advantage of the benefits available to them. Now, to be honest, the industry tends to pay a lot better than the military does, but we get benefits that even some of the Fortune 500 companies really do not provide for their employees. What can you tell to a junior officer or an enlisted member listening right now about the importance of finding out which benefits are available? For example, for me, the Montgomery GI Bill, really great to go to school, or even the VA mortgage. Without it, there is just no way I could have been able to purchase a home in Silicon Valley, how expensive things are here. What would you tell them to figure out what those benefits are and take full advantage of them?

Yeah, I would say it is important for junior officers especially to learn and know the benefits, not only for themselves but mostly for their soldiers.

Yes.

So that means, you know, you show up to your first duty station, go make Walk around Army Community Service, get to know all the folks, get there, ask them what they do, ask them what they provide, um, how they get— how someone can ask them for help. Um, because like you said, we have as a department, um, whether we're talking Army or larger, um, we have so many benefits that— yes, I don't know all of them. Um, that's one of the things we found out through the Junior Officer Council is there's just a huge messaging campaign that really is probably going to— would solve a lot of the issues. Um, because there's things already in place. Because, you know, every time there's an issue, we do an AAR, we learn about it, we build a program, we write a policy to change it, and then we keep moving. Um, and it goes into this giant repository that, um, you just gotta go search through and find it. Um, so learn, learn those things, ask questions.

Um, yes.

Get the Army Officer's Guide. Uh, join AJOC if you're in the Army, join NJOC if you're in the Navy.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, join CJOC if you're in the Air Force. Um, yes. Those exist there to help build that peer mentorship, that knowledge, and then make sure your soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines know this information.

Yes. Well, that is, that is really Powerful. Especially education, to me, is one of the most important things you can get out of your military career. If you don't have a degree, the Navy will definitely pay for your bachelor's, and once you get that, if you want to, you can become an officer. But even beyond that, you could get 1, 2, 3 master's, everything paid for by the service, which is just incredible. But of course, you have to take advantage of it. So as a young lieutenant, what did you learn the hard way about trusting non-commissioned officer, NCOs?

Yeah, um, I've been blessed that I've had phenomenal NCOs my entire career. Um, so, and I, I was raised by NCOs. Dad was an E7 and he was a senior chief. Wow. Mom, mom was an E5 in the Air Force.

Um, amazing. So my uncle was tech, tech sergeant.

Yep. Um, my, my uncle was a master sergeant for First Sergeant, Special Forces. Um, grandfathers were all military, so like very, very heavily raised by NCOs. Um, so trust to NCOs comes very naturally.

Yes.

Um, so you have, you have to do that, right? Like we in the Army, we train you in the basic officer course for lieutenants what soldiers should be doing. Um, not that you need to be doing that, but so that you can do the checks. And to make sure that they're doing right. And if they're doing right, you gotta, you gotta trust. Um, I think as an officer you have to trust first and then validate as you go. Um, because without that, then you, you're gonna get swamped by everything that needs to be done.

Yes, that, that is really, uh, powerful. I know you went through the ROTC program, which is a great way to commission, but I actually enlisted 21 years ago and And I am really proud that I used to be enlisted. I think I learned so much more. And, uh, uh, yeah, you're, you're right. No, E-7, E-8, E-9 chiefs in the Navy, I guess sergeant in the Army, they, in my opinion, they really run the military. Without them, there is nothing we're gonna be able to do. And I think it's really the biggest difference between our military and the military of of a nation. That's why we are so great, because we don't really need all of the admirals and generals and senior officers like me. You can get rid of all of us. If you have the E-7 and below, they're gonna be able to do what they need to do and fight and win wars. It's just incredible.

Yeah, small unit experts. Yeah, which is what it comes down to at the end of the day.

Yes. Wow, that is, that is quite something. So you have led globally distributed teams across Hawaii, Germany and Konus. How do leaders build trust when they cannot rely on proximity or micromanagement?

Yeah, um, so that's a great way to learn that, um, you know, being in Maryland, having units from Hawaii all the way to Germany, you have to build the systems and processes, and again, give trust, right? So like, yes, um, You have to trust that the people in your command are going to do the right thing because they're part of the Army, whether they're enlisted, NCO, warrant officer, civilian, they're in the Army. They should be trustworthy. You have to give trust. Um, and then you gotta build the systems and processes that will support them to do their mission, what— whatever it is, whether that's, you know, throwing lead downrange as an infantry person. Doing HR support, to doing intelligence functions, whatever it may be, you have to be able to build those systems and processes so they can do that. And then also look ahead towards the horizon and start knocking down obstacles before they become impediments.

Wow.

And we have another comment from Damian from Toronto. So that's in Canada. Thank you so much for being here. And, uh, Damien, let us also know what you are grateful for today and if you have a question for the Major. Now, let me ask you this. As a Major now for the Navy, that makes you a field grade officer. You're not quite a senior officer yet, but you are on your way there. Uh, uh, oh, I guess I could call you a senior junior officer if I must. But, but, but basically in the Army, from second lieutenant to first lieutenant and then captain, that's pretty much automatic, right? You don't really I have to compete for that promotion. It just happens after 2 years. Yeah, just like it does in the Navy. But going from captain to major, that's a huge, huge promotion. So I guess I want to ask you about that shift going from, I guess, a junior officer to more of a field, field grade officer. One, what did you learn and why do you think you were promoted? For the lieutenant and captain listening now, uh, what do they need to do in order to ensure that they are as competitive as possible to make such a huge jump.

Yeah. So what I love about the way that the Army's structured with that is your lieutenant and captain ranks. You're there to learn the fundamentals. Like, the Army can exist without lieutenants, right? Like, that's, that's what the E-7s and below do.

Don't tell them that.

But yes, the lieutenants are there to learn so they can be company commanders and field grade officers, which is where the Army, Army needs folks. Um, so if you're a lieutenant, you really need to learn the fundamentals of your profession. That's, you know, for everything from weapons qualifications like we talked about earlier to PT, to, um, you know, shooting artillery, doing your HR job, doing your intel job, doing whatever your job is, um, and knowing that So you're an expert in this. So as you generalize, as you get further and further up the chain, you understand your job and how it applies in other realms. Um, I would say my switching around doing artillery intel and now HR, um, the breadth of experience allows me to operate very comfortably in a lot of different circumstances because I understand three different branches. Um, HR being the newest, I'm still learning it, but I like, I get the concepts. Um, but you know, I can have conversations with, you know, combat arms branches because I understand the artillery side of it. I can talk intel, joint partners, because I've been there, done that. Um, and then I can do HR, which gets me into like the logistics, soldier support side, um, and continues to expand. So it changes how you look. Um, Field grade is where you're supposed to be doing that, right? You're looking at the systems, you're looking at the field, not just at your, your company. So that's what they want from you. So you have to be able to make that, that change in mindset shift from focusing down and into focusing up and out.

Wow, that is, that is very insightful. Thank you so much for, for sharing. So for a captain who is listening now, who is in zone to promote to O-4, What would you advise them to do as far as their record, or what you, what you believe is, is going to be a major, uh, key for them to, to improve their chances of being selected at the O-4 level?

Yeah, um, I mean, the nice thing about the Army is we tell you, um, so your branch brief that every officer gets tells you what your rating profile should look like. Tells you what your required jobs are and tells you what experience, knowledge, skills, behaviors they're looking for at the different ranks. So looking at that, understanding the different jobs in your career field that gets you there is part of that. And that's, that's career planning. That's a great conversation to have with a mentor in your field and develop that relationship so you you can understand the things that can apply and not apply.

That is, that is, uh, so insightful because basically when you are in zone for promotion is not the time you need to look at your career. No, no, you should have done that long before. Yeah, because, okay, that's, that is, that is so, so important. And, and I know you weren't enlisted, but I think to me that's the biggest difference, right, between being enlisted and being an officer. When you're enlisted, especially when I was an E-1, E-2, E-3, the chiefs, the E-7, they took care of me. I didn't have to worry about anything. They tell me what to wear, where to be, what time, and what to do. Everything was pretty much planned for me. But as an officer, I have to plan my own career. I have to decide where do I wanna go and what do I need to do now in order to prepare for the future. So for the J-O listening, I think that is really key. All right, so let me ask you this. The Army Junior Officer Council, which, uh, you created. So it's a bold bottom-up initiative. What problem were you trying to solve that traditional system weren't addressing when you—

Yeah, um, so if we think about it, I did the Cadet Advisory Council when I was in Civil Air Patrol as a, as a teen, um, and that was phenomenal. We got the cadets from across the state of Maine together and we asked them what what they wanted to change about the program, what they liked, didn't like. And then we were able to provide that feedback to the, the adults in the program at the state level and then pushed up to the regional and national level.

Um, that's pretty cool.

Yeah, that kind of went in the back of my head, you know, went into ROTC, started focusing on that. Um, and then in 2023, there's a series of articles that got released about why junior officers were leaving the Army.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, there was a, an article from a, a senior leader telling them, um, addressing that issue and what, uh, their thoughts were. Um, I didn't agree with that, so I sent a rebuttal because I was, I already submitted my rephrat. I was getting out of the Army. I was like, what's the worst they can do? Fire me? I'm already out. No, like I'm already heading towards the exit paperwork's in. Um, so wrote a rebuttal. My wife is a much better writer than I, so she helped me. Make it less emotional, make it more professional, which was great. Um, but the Junior Officer Council was a concept in there. I did steal from the Navy because they had, um, their program. I stole the spelling of the SEL and I stole a lot of the framework.

Yes.

Um, that they use. So it was a great partnership and collaboration with, uh, Adam Johnson. And Liz Elrod to build AJOC. But, um, grateful for those two naval officers to help me do that.

Wow.

The problem that we were addressing with senior leaders and junior officers aren't really, um, connecting on the same signal, right? So junior officers are screaming on signal 1, senior leaders are listening on channel 2, and they're just not hearing each other because junior officers make incredible memes that have a lot of depth and meaning to them if you You understand all the differences. Senior leaders are looking for papers, they're looking for information papers, programs, well-thought-out things, and that— so the channels just aren't connecting. So the basic idea is that we just step in and we can translate and connect the signal.

That is, that is really, really amazing. I really love that when in your career you have the ability to help or contribute to a program that not just help you and your cohort, but actually has the potential to actually help every single junior officer in the entire Army. That is possible, right? Depending on which program you kind of get to contribute to. Just the potential to make, to have your career have a greater impact than just, you know, the average Lieutenant definitely exists out there. That is fantastic. Now, tell me this, it looks like you did have separation packet in, then you chose to stay. So what made AEOC kind of worth committing your career to?

Yeah, so I was up in Maine doing shipbuilding with Bath Iron Works, which was phenomenal. Bath built is best built. Best destroyers in the Navy come from there. But it wasn't scratching the itch for me because I don't know if I have ADHD or whatever. I just like tackling problems left and right, left and right, left and right. And I like being in the people space. So I was looking for other options. That article that I wrote got published in December of '23. Chevy, um, without telling me, shared it with another Colonel, Chris Salin. Um, she reached out to me, she was like, hey, I like this idea, can we chat about it? We did. I was like, I'm getting out, and you know, April 1st is my ETS date, so I'm getting out then, um, you have me until then. Um, but I was like, you know, talking with her, having conversations with her, um, and trying to develop this. I was like, I love doing this. Is there a chance that I could do this, uh, become an AG officer? Wow. Continue serving on active duty. That conversation happened about 22 days before my ETS date.

Um, that's amazing.

Yeah, 2 days, 2 weeks before I pulled my packet, 3 days before it was approved. So that Friday I went in and they're like, hey, um Yeah, we got to do like X, Y, and Z. I was like, don't worry about it, I'm staying in the Army. I know I was supposed to come in Monday, but, uh, the Army approved me to stay in. So, man, very grateful for that.

Really amazing. Which, which reminds me, I want to talk a little bit about, uh, uh, mentorship too, because, uh, we did have a great privilege of speaking, uh, with the Colonel, uh, Chavez. Chevy Cook, but also we also had the chance to speak with Lisa Phan. It looks like you, all three of you guys support Military Mentor. Can you kind of tell me what you guys do at Military Mentors and why young people should support that work and also how they may be able to participate either as a mentor or a mentee?

Yeah, absolutely. So I love Military Mentors. Heard Chevy on a podcast when I was a company commander, um, talking about this, this program company that he had. Went, went to that website, started looking around, um, applied to the Emissary Program, uh, which is our non-resident fellowship that we run twice a year. Um, did not get in. Um, I still hold a grudge against Sabrina. It's all right, she knows that. Um, to that cohort, but I got into the following cohort. Um, wow. And What I just enjoyed about it was the Emissary Program is a training tool or training program for mentorship. So now that I'm like all super nerdy with mentorship, yep, I'm reading through the literature and understanding it. And informal mentorship is the most powerful form of mentorship. Yes, formal programs are better than nothing. Um, but they're not that great. So when we talk mentorship in organizations, you got to create a culture. The necessary program helps people build that culture because they understand the art and science of it. Wow. That's what I love because I get to nerd out on it. Um, we just kicked off our 12th cohort yesterday.

That's pretty amazing. Wow.

Yeah. Uh, and then funny enough, Lisa, um, so Chevy runs Military Mentors. Lisa's a board advisor member. Her book Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring. Yeah, is what I started my Mentorship Minute with.

Really?

Off that. So yeah.

Wow, what a small world.

Very small world. But her book was great. Started doing that for the, the Wachuka Rocks program, because I was their mentorship chair. And then that just expanded and continued from a weekly email to now it's a weekly Substack.

So Wow, that is really amazing. And this is the book you're talking about, Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring. Wow. Okay, what a small world. Okay, let's switch. We have about 20 minutes left. Let me switch over the second segment of this podcast where I kind of get into your brain and try to see the leadership principles that have kind of helped shape your life and your career. So to get started, let me ask you this, uh, what do you think is the greatest or one of the greatest lessons you have ever learned, whether it's in life, leadership, or just in—

um, so this might— may sound controversial to some, okay, and it might sound slightly inflammatory, and so that's why I'm glad I'm here on my own accord. Um, uh, I don't believe— I don't believe there's anything such like, uh, I don't believe there's such thing as transformational leadership, right? Um, people love to be like, hey, I'm a transformational leader. Um, wrong. You have— leadership is inherently a transactional process. There may be, uh, transformational effects out of that, but as a transactional process, because the leader has to get the follower to do something, right? And that's, that's a transaction. I give you something in order to get this thing done that I need. Yes. Really good leaders can make that feel transformational, like they're helping you out, they're making it better for you. But it's still a transaction. So if we tell ourselves that transformation— we're transformational leaders, then we forget about the fundamentals, um, which is what I think leaders need to focus on, is the fundamentals, right? Like, yes, that those transactions, like making sure people are paid, making sure they're taken care of, making sure they're, they're showing up to work, they're enjoying what they're doing, they're understanding their impact that they're having— those are the fundamental transactions of leadership. And if you do that well, it's transformational in some aspects, but it's generally an action that's being done. The accomplishment of the mission is what's transformational. So that'd be one lesson.

Yes, that is great. So you're asking people to focus on the fundamental of leadership and forget about this transformational stuff, and no, if you do it very well, you may end up being transformational. That is very good because I think even in the Navy, a couple of times we had to I have programs to kind of go back to the basics because I think sometimes people kind of forget. And, but if you do the basics, the fundamental very, very well, then you don't have to worry about anything else because everything pretty much going to take care of itself. Well, that's a great lesson. Why do you think you've been so successful throughout your life, even from the Eagle Scout to the Army? You know, you did artillery, intel, and now you're doing HR. Why, why are you successful, you think? What's, what's the secret?

Um, I, I don't know if I am successful, right? I, I'm, I'm here, I'm doing, I'm doing what I want to do. Um, so that is a form of success. Um, I'm successful because of NCOs, because of soldiers, uh, because of great bosses, um, folks who Um, make sure that I know, like, my first NCO, Sergeant Mo, phenomenal individual. I showed up, you know, I didn't like running, I didn't like lifting. He's like, hey sir, you're kind of chubby, we're going to make you not. Uh, and so like, you know, that, yeah, that some people can look at and be like, that's mean. I'm like, no, but he cared, right? It was a form of caring, as a form of, yeah, I mean, like, I want you to be the best, uh, version of yourself. You know, bosses that were like, hey, you know, we're giving you leeway. One of my favorite compliments was, Chris, I love the fact that you're a bulldog and I have to like grab you by the shirt collar and pull you back and not push you to do something. So that, that to me is a compliment. And I enjoy that. And learning how to make sure they don't have to do that so often is probably something I'm still doing. And learning. Um, but those are kind of the, the things, right, is the fundamentals. Um, the NCOs and soldiers that have done phenomenal work, um, and then the bosses that cared about me.

So, wow, that is, that is quite, uh, powerful. What, what do you think is the greatest leadership advice you've received so far?

That I've received. Oh, I'll say the greatest leadership example I've seen was my second S3 boss when I was a captain. Former Marine, crusty, grumpy old guy. Um, love him to death, but he did counseling religiously. Uh, initial counseling— here's my expectations, here's your goals, here's your short-term, long-term, put it on the form— and then had it scheduled for 3 months later, um, which was the formal sit-down. Um, he also was a runner. Again, I don't like running. I'm kind of— you can't really tell, I'm I'm short, I'm dwarfish. I'm like Gimli from Lord of the Rings. I'm great for short distances, wasted on long distance. But, you know, he did the counseling every quarter. He cared. He got to know us through PT. You know, he did PT with us, he got to know us. And he was really good with the fundamentals. And then he entrusted his captains to do stuff. So I really enjoyed that. It was actually, that was the first time I had considered ever getting out of the Army was before that. And then I decided to give him a chance. Super grateful I did. Wow.

So really leading by example and truly caring. No, I'm sure we stole that from the Army too. We say, mission first, but people always. That's one.

Yeah.

Things I've learned about leadership, but, uh, it is so true. Yeah, I guess another thing I think Oprah is the one I first heard say that— I think she learned it from Maya Angelou— but, um, people will forget what you say, but they never forget the way you make them feel. And that is so powerful. Wow. Okay, so what, what are you learning right now?

Oh, I'm, I'm learning, um, the fundamentals. So I'm going through— I got my copy of Kathy Cram's dissertation from 1980 on mentorship in the workplace.

Yes.

And I'm going through reading that. That's what my January mentorship minutes have been about. Going back to the foundation, reading through it, learning all the different literature, partly because I got to do that for my PhD studies, because mentorship themed and everything, but Yes. Um, also because it's, it's fun. I've learned so much from reading the dissertation and not just the, the shortened articles out of it.

So wow, that is, uh, really, really cool. So, uh, we talked about your successes. What about failure? How has failure shaped your life?

Yeah, um, uh, again, being, being a, a, a bulldog type personality, I guess. Um, failure initially was very rough, right? Like when you run headfirst into a brick wall, um, and don't break through, um, very difficult, very painful, um, lessons to learn. So going through Scouts and Civil Air Patrol and ROTC, learning, um, how to, how to temper myself, how to, um, regulate my speed, my— how much I I do at any given time. Um, and getting to the point where I think, um, as Chevy said, more fluid, not flexible, because things that are flexible can break if you bend it too far. But being more fluid, um, it took a lot of failure to get to that point about a year and a half, 2 years ago. Um, so 20-ish years of trying to learn how to not hit my head against the wall.

Yeah.

Um, to become, uh, more fluid. But that, you know, that was a lot of failure that got there. Um, whether like anywhere, like I said, from Scouts to being a lieutenant to being a company commander, uh, to being at the SkillBridge.

Yes.

Hitting failure time and time again and just having to like pick myself back up, dust myself off, look at my wife for support and encouragement, and then like take the next step forward.

So, wow. What, what do you think you learned the most through those experiences?

Ask for help. Um, that was probably one of the best lessons from failure is, is asking for help. Um, I don't think I grew up understanding that you could ask for help for things. Um, or at least I didn't internalize anything that way. So I thought I have to take on everything myself, which is really hard to do. It's really exhausting, really draining. So getting to the point where you can ask people for help and understand where your, your limits are. I have a lot of things on my plate that I do, mostly because I I say I cheat. I cheat because I integrate them, right? Like, if I'm doing something— if I'm doing studies right now, I'm doing it on Mentorship, which helps military mentors, which also helps me in my Army time. And like, all like, put it all together to stack it.

Yes.

Um, but like, asking for help is critical. So being able to like, hey, you know, any of my military mentors, teammates, like, hey, I need help on this. Or, you know, at work being like, hey boss, I need help doing this. Or even at home. Hey, can I get some help doing X, Y, and Z? Still learning it, still working on it.

Yeah, I guess that is very simple but not always easy. I don't know about you, but in my experience, men are the ones who usually have trouble asking for help. Maybe it's our ego, we are too much testosterone, or I don't know what our problem is, but we usually don't want to ask for help. We think we can figure out everything all by ourselves. You know, I kind of joke sometimes, right, If it wasn't for our dog, I would be the only male in my family, married with two daughters. But my girls, they don't have any problem asking for help when they need help. Hey, Dad, can you help me with this? I'm like, okay. It's like they don't even have to think about it. But even me growing up, it's like, oh, do I really want to ask? Let me just see if I can figure it out myself, which is really a stupid way of living life, isn't it?

Yeah. And it's a cultural thing. And I think it's common across most cultures. Cultures, right, is that you just— men don't ask for help. Um, wow. I think that's something we should probably—

looks like my mentor is here. Uh, General Milford says, excellent point of asking for help, well done. Thank you, sir. Yes, indeed. I guess for the junior officer and the enlisted guys, especially Mel, if you are listening, please ask for help if you are over your head, right? Because I don't know how it is in the Army, but in the Navy, sometimes what people do is, um, kind of, you know, sink or swim. No, you are now going to be in charge. You are the officer in charge. We expect you to do this. These are the expectations. And then, okay, go ahead and do it. And, uh, again, if you're gonna be, uh, sinking, you better ask for help quick, you know, earlier rather than later. Is that the same culture in the Army too? Oh, you guys?

Yeah, yeah, actually I was talking to a phenomenal junior officer this week And, um, he was talking about high pace, up-tempo, high stress. And there's two types of leaders that he's experienced: those who will help you grow through it, um, and then those who will expect you to either sink or swim. Um, and those latter ones are the ones who don't develop leaders. They're not— they're there to get the mission done and they don't care. And you can tell that. Um, and so when you look at whether somebody wants to stay part of the organization, those are the leaders that they don't want to be around. They want to be around the ones who are helping, and you grow through that. So you get better so you can handle more. If you just let people drown on their own time, they're never going to be able to do more.

Wow, that is powerful. And here, Command Sergeant Major Al Gruitch-Williams, we're very honored to interview him last season. He says, "Asking for help is a strength." not a weakness. That's really something we need to drill into soldiers and sailors and everybody who's in the military, especially men. Because I must tell you one personal experience, I think I was a lieutenant back then, so officer, that would be the equivalent of captain for the army. I was doing our physical, annual physical test, and I did too many push-ups or something. I injured myself. I really got hurt. But I didn't say anything. I kept my mouth shut. I'm like, no. Because when I was going through boot camp, some of my stupid fellow sailors would say, no, when you feel pain, it's weakness leaving your body. Be a man. And all of this nonsense. But this ended up being a serious, serious problem later on. So now I have a chronic problem with my back, but I just wish I had asked for help back then. That was back in, what, 2011, I think, 2012. But anyway, I am still paying for this today. You know, I have to see chiropractors sometimes, do physical therapy, but I just wish I had taken care of that so long ago. Again, it's not proud, it's not ego. Everybody needs help, everybody gets injured from time to time, and sometimes you just need help. So that is so, so important. All right, so let me ask you this. What about fear? Is there— are you willing to share any experience you had with one of the greatest fears you kind of had to overcome and how you did it?

I'm afraid of talking to people. Like I said, I'm an introverted guy. Really? You're talking to me right now. Wow. Yeah. And I'm sweating. So what you'll see— what you won't see is you'll see me go curl up on the couch next to my wife for like the next 2 hours while I like just shut down and internalize.

Um, wow, you're doing very well.

Yeah, the, the, the Junior Officer Council has helped to build that muscle, right? Reps and sets, being able to build.

Yes.

Um, my ability to talk to people. Um, and you know, putting myself out here for this type of thing was very, very stressful. I've been stressing all week. I think my wife has been like, stop pacing, stop stressing, it's okay.

You would fool me. Wow.

But yeah, that's one fear. But fear of failure, fear of disappointment, I think is another one. So there's a lot of fear that has driven me over the years.

But okay, let's talk about public speaking because I've heard they used to say Most people, they fear speaking so much, they'd rather die or pay more taxes than speak in public. So how do you handle that? How are you able to overcome that fear and do what you need to do for your team or your mission or whatever it is you are working on at the time that requires you to be present in that way?

Yeah. I do it for others, right? I think that's one of the great things I like about the Army. Um, but being able— like, this, like, here is, is so I can talk about military mentors. It's here so I can talk about the Junior Officer Council. Um, here is, um, so I can talk about mentorship and the general knowledge around that.

Yes.

Um, because there are things I believe in, uh, more than I believe in the fear of—

wow—

looking silly.

Wow, thank you so much for sharing that. That is very, very powerful. So stop focusing on yourself, but focus on the people you are going to be impacting. Wow, that is powerful. Well, if that's not leadership, I don't know what is. All right, let me ask you, if you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, who would you choose and why? They could be alive, dead, or even mythical figures.

Yeah, so I'm gonna I'm from Maine. I consider myself a Mainer. So I'm going to start off with Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. Because I can't pass that dinner opportunity off for anyone else. I would say Colin Powell, because again, his book changed me from the Navy to the Army. And I was able— I was fortunate when I was there. Yeah, I was fortunately able to meet him when I was a cadet and get his book signed.

Wow.

So that was— yeah, that was incredible. And last one is Taylor Swift. I say that.

My brother loves that. Yeah.

Yeah. But I just think she, she's an incredible leader and mentor and You know, I, I think her ability to do the Eras Tour and build the team that she did, that was a high-performing team. It had a unique cohesion. Um, if you think about performing 149 shows over a year and a half, incredible as a lethality metric because they killed it every time.

Yeah.

Um, you know, she, she's an incredible leader. And you watch the docu-series about that, um, it's not about Taylor, it's about the show, and it's about the dancers, it's about the vocalists, about the band. Yeah, it's about the entire team. So, um, there's, there's a lot of leadership and mentorship lessons to learn from Taylor Swift, and I would just love to sit down and interview her.

That is really amazing because I also love that she's reclaiming rights to her songs too, which is pretty, uh, wonderful. And I'll— and I tell my daughters about that, what you have to stand for yourself sometimes and, uh, do what's right. Wow, that is, that is quite powerful. So let's talk about some, some books. So why should our audience read this one, 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teams or People, by Sean Covey?

Yeah, um, if we want to talk fundamentals, start with yourself, right? Um, understanding the 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teams or People, um, helps you center on yourself, uh, first. So you, you take care of yourself, you know, oxygen mask theory. Put your oxygen mask on before you help others so that you can then go lead.

Yes. And then another book you mentioned, this one, Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring by Lisa Fan. Why should we read that one?

I love that one because I love the mentoring cycle that she talks about. I love the differences between us. And how to ask questions, how to really think about mentorship and bridging those. Phenomenal work in the mentorship sphere and really kicked off my journey.

All right, and then one of my greatest mentor, General Colin Powell, the one and only. Why should we read "My American Journey"?

Not only is it a phenomenal story, it's packed with lessons, it's packed with all sorts of leadership mentorship. Anecdotes, situations. And so I like to think of book mentors. I can learn a lot from people because of a book, and I can, I can train myself that way. Yes.

Wow, this is really amazing. You met him at the book signing? That's when I met him also, when he had his second book. I think it was in 2015, I believe. It worked for me. It's just impressive how he's down to earth with everything he's accomplished by the time, right? He was not only a 4-star general, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but also the first Black Secretary of State of the most powerful nation in the world. But when you look at him, he's just down to earth. He can talk to you like you're just somebody, almost like an equal. I'm like, wow, I can't believe this. It's just incredible how humble and just, he always values people, all people. It's just incredible. Wow, okay. So is there maybe a song, a book, or a movie that you think would be your life's theme or anthem?

Oh, life theme or anthem. Um, okay, this one's hard.

Um, oh, when, when you are down, is there a song you like to listen to, or is there any movies that inspires you a lot?

Uh, well, yeah, I guess I'll go with, I'll go with movies. Um, the director's extended cut of Gettysburg, 4 and a half hours.

Gettysburg.

Um, inspirational. Like, I, I have a thing with Gettysburg. I feel at home when I go to Gettysburg. Um, I got married at Gettysburg. Don't tell the National Park Service. Um, but, uh, you know, we went up with a couple people. We just did a quick ceremony and rolled out from Little Round Top.

Wow, that's amazing.

It was a great military operation. Um, rolled up, seized the terrain, did the actions on the objective, rolled out. Um, but, uh, you know, just, just feel really home there. But, you know, Chamberlain, um, and then just all the actions of just thinking about like that entire scenario where you have people defending. Yes, people attacking across an open field. Um, all the different things that went into that were just phenomenal. Again, fundamentals makes the difference.

Yes, man. Uh, it's really amazing. I think it was, uh, Daniel, right? Uh, Jeff— Jeff Daniel, who played Chamberlain. The speech he gave, that's one of the most powerful leadership speeches I have ever, ever heard. Yeah. When he was like, man, you guys are tired, you really don't want to follow us, but no, we are forcing you to. But he's like, okay, we're not going to shoot you or anything. But just the way he inspired them, I mean, it was just amazing. I listened to the speech over and over again. It's always, always relevant. That's quite powerful. Thank you for sharing that. Oh, actually, before I ask you the last question, I believe, uh, uh, CSM William said one more. That's one of the great things about the Army. It will test you by putting you in a position of responsibility to overcome those fears and strengthen your resolve. That is so, so true. I really believe for those who are thinking about joining the military, if for anything else, is to really be in a position where you can become a better version of yourself. You are going to be challenged, but because I've also seen sailors, I'm sure it's the same thing in the army, some people that just want to stay under the radar, do the bare minimum and get their pension or whatnot, but not really push the envelope and really learn or become. I guess it's the Marine who says, be all you were meant to be, or all, no, actually it's be all you can be. That is the the Army too, right? But anyway, so I think there is that sense that you can do so much more, you can have a greater impact, you can become a better person, you can become a better leader. And I believe that's definitely a call. When you raise your hand, you want to enlist, that is what you should answer to because your life tomorrow can be so much different than your past. And this is just incredible. But anyway, maybe I am a little bit biased, but I believe if you want to lead, join the military. You will have no choice but to lead. Okay, let me ask you this. If you had one and only one day to live, what do you think you would like your final contribution to be?

I mean, if I had one day left to live, I would spend it with my wife and dog doing whatever they wanted because that, at the end of the day, is always what matters to to me, um, is that my wife and my dog are happy and taken care of. Diesel, yeah, that guy runs the house. He tells us when it's breakfast, when it's dinner. Uh, it's my incredibly beautiful wife, um, who keeps me centered and supports me. So, um, she has one of the best fundamentals lessons. She put it best to me the one time with art, you know, you have to know the fundamentals so when you need to break the rules, you can do it properly. Uh, she was talking about that with regards to art and writing.

So that's amazing. Wow. And, uh, if you had a magic wand, you could solve any problem in the world, what is one problem you'd like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

Um, I would probably So I, I don't know if it's a problem. I think it's a communication and training thing that when you don't hit enough, um, the day you commission as an officer, like the amount of influence you have determines, um, a lot for people's lives. So just want people to understand that and have those conversations, right? And be able to have those conversations. Like, have tough conversations. Somebody's not meeting standard, have that conversation, develop them. Yeah, it takes more work on your part, but that's why you're paid. That's what you're paid to do. Um, you know, if the organization's frustrating and not doing— like, there's ways to improve the organization, um, and that, that's why you get paid as an officer. That's what your job is. Um, and so you need to have those conversations need to have that knowledge that, you know, you can fix that. Um, again, it's the fundamentals, right? Lieutenants have the fundamental level of leadership, which means they probably have some of the most direct impact on soldiers and their well-being and their quality of service, quality of life.

Wow, that is very, very powerful. Don't pass the buck. You see something doesn't meet expectation or standard, you need to address it. Yeah, when I become a commanding officer, one of The best advice I got from one of my mentors was, if you see anything that doesn't meet the standard, if you don't do anything about that, that becomes the new standard for your command. So you absolutely have to address it. Wow, very, very powerful. Thank you so much for sharing. So we are getting to the end of the show. Thanks so much for giving us extra time today. What can we do to add value back to you?

Yeah, I mean, anybody can connect with me on LinkedIn.

Follow my Substack, which is slingingrc.substack.com, right?

Yep, yep. That's where I put the mentorship minutes. I finished those today for tomorrow's edition and Thursday's throwback as I try to upload the new ones. And then, you know, military mentors, you know, check, check out that website, sign up for the Emissary Program. You know, come to the moment in 2027, we hold it, sign up for our newsletter, all that stuff. But really just, you know, have lunch with people, right? We, you know, the biggest excuse I hear from leaders is, I don't have enough time to, to counsel or develop my people. I'm like, you eat breakfast and you eat lunch every workday with your people, especially in the Army. Like, you do PT, you have breakfast, you go to work, you have lunch, you go back to work. Like, you have 2 meals a day that you can like have an hour-long conversation or half-hour conversation with someone. Yeah, so just, just do that. Get to know people, have those conversations, PT with your soldiers, um, get to know them. Don't be there to necessarily smoke them because you can run faster, um, or, or lift more because you can lift more. It's there to, you know, talk to your soldiers, get that, that temperature check so you know what's going wrong, and you've built that trust, you've built that unit cohesion.

Wow, powerful. Actually, there is a book I'm going to add it to the bookshelf too, uh, Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi. I don't know if I don't know if you've read that book yet.

I've not.

The Secret to Success, One Relationship at a Time. I'm going to make sure to add it to the bookshelf. That one really taught me a lot because things that you can find out when you have lunch with someone could have a huge impact on the organization too. Also a way for you to get to know your people. Thank you so much for sharing that. So we are toward the end of the show. Is there a question I should have asked you that I haven't got a chance to ask yet?

Um, you know, I asked this question in Emissary interviews and other interviews I do, and I, I always get to watch people struggle with it, and I never thought to ask myself that before, uh, before this. Um, you could have asked me about my dumb goals framework.

Okay, yes, please, can you tell us?

So Smart goals: specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, time-bound, nominal structure. But you have to know exactly what you're doing, right? But when you get into the unknowns, you, you still need a framework to navigate learning in the unknown. So that's where I came up with dumb goals as a play on smart goals. Discover— so focus on discovering as much information about the topic. Um, understand, so build that understanding of the topic. So like for me, the Mentorship Minute was a way for me to discover and understand mentorship. Master the topic. So as you get narrow, you start adding SMART goals into your DUMB goal framework to build that mastery. And then at the end, you start being able to blend it into your daily life. So Last year, what I focused on was trying to see where mentorship appeared every week and see where it came in and where I could learn a lesson. That's how, you know, Taylor Swift, K-pop, Demon Hunters, like all these things that came out last year, I was able to be like, yep, there's, there's a lesson there to be learned. Um, huh. And that's because it's blended into my life and I can't not think about it now.

Um, that is really, uh, interesting. That is really great. Wow. And you, you thought of this yourself?

Yeah. Um, so Mops and Mo's podcast, which is a fitness podcast, um, great guys, Alex and Drew, uh, we're talking about how SMART goals doesn't work for fitness. And yes, um, I took their challenge to come up with a dumb goal framework as something for me to do. So I did that.

That's amazing.

That was based on reflection of how I got to understand mentorship.

Yes. Wow, thank you so much for sharing that. And that book, General Biggs, is Never Eat Alone. It's a really, really great book. I highly recommend it by Keith Ferrazzi. Great, great book. And of course, you also recommended— I already have the book Gettysburg on the bookshelf, but the movie is pretty good too, especially Jeff Daniels. I think that's one of his best roles, I believe. Well, okay. So we are pretty much at the end now. So let me ask you this last question before we do the lightning round and end the show. If you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had in the Army, what would you say to 17-year-old Chris?

Um, I would have two things. Develop your patience muscle sooner rather than later. Um, being patient, being able to, to go with the flow is a lot—

yes—

easier. And then go to Kansas so you can go meet your wife. Get there as fast as possible.

So yeah, actually, you said that I was born in Pointe-Noire, Republic of the Congo. So when I was a kid, I used to watch Disney movies. There was a song, Oh Susanna, I'm going to Alabama with Benjamin or whatever. But anyway, my wife is Demetria Brown. She didn't have a middle name. So when I came to Alabama, I didn't have a banjo, but I did play the classic guitar. So I did have a guitar with me. So I gave her a middle name. My middle name is Susanna, so Dimitriya Susanna Brown, because I went to Alabama to meet my Susanna. But anyway, it's kind of a joke, but, uh, uh, that's awesome. All right, so lightning round, 3 to 5 minutes rapid fire, so don't, don't take too long to, to think, okay? One word that defines great leadership, one word: connection. Okay, morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

Uh, my, my coffee, my devotions, and my reflection.

Very good. What is a book or a quote that changed your life?

Um, you know, a book that I didn't mention is, uh, Turn the Ship Around by David.

Turn the Ship Around.

Yes, phenomenal book.

Uh, yeah, I have, I have it here, here somewhere. Actually, I think he's a— he was a commander, I think, when he wrote it. He's a captain now. I'm trying to get him on on the podcast hopefully this season. Great, great book. It should already be on the bookshelf, but I'm gonna double-check. Thanks for mentioning that. And who inspires you the most today?

Uh, today who inspires me the most is my wife. She inspires me every day. Um, phenomenal individual, super smart, makes me have to be smart. Like, she got a master's, I gotta I got a master's and then now I have to do a PhD to try and match her intellect. Yeah, she's just, she's just a powerhouse.

That is beautiful. So what is the leadership habit you refuse to compromise on?

I think learning.

Learning, yes.

Learning drives a lot, and if you're a leader that doesn't learn, then you're not going to be a leader for very long.

Yes.

Yes, especially in the age of artificial intelligence. Yes. Okay. What is one question every leader should ask themselves frequently?

Who have I not talked to recently? Hmm.

Back to connection. That's powerful. All right. What did you want to be when you were a kid?

I mean, I wanted to be Tom Cruise or Maverick for 10 years until I read Colin Powell's book. Book.

So, well, I, I guess you are in the Army now. Maybe you are gonna be a 4-star general, who knows. But, uh, you are in the military, so that is close, close enough. Okay, what are 3 adjectives describing you as a child?

Uh, as a child, um, focused, um, but also shy.

Okay, one more.

-driven.

Okay, what about as an adult?

Um, what I hope is, uh, people would say I'm curious. Um, transparent, um, because I believe transparency is key, and kind. And those are my core values, so I hope that's what people see when they think of me.

Let me ask you this. This is based on a podcast interview I had with somebody else. Do you think there's a difference between kindness and being nice?

Yeah.

What's the difference?

Being nice can include blowing smoke up somebody's fourth point of contact. Being kind is being able to have those hard conversations, but be courteous about it, right? Like, there's a difference between, like, telling somebody, you know, with a knife hand how bad they are and like sitting down and being like, hey, here's, here's the action, you know, here's the, here's the event, here's the action, here's the observable, let's figure out how we, uh, improve upon that.

Thank you so much. And if I was to ask you kind or nice, I know your answer will be— yes. All right, so, uh, I would like to add on a positive note, what is something you are feeling optimistic about?

Yeah, I think there's a lot of great things happening in the HR space in and outside of the military. I think there's a book that I didn't also mention, Data-Driven Talent Management by Chris Saling. Getting to support the organization by being able to use data analytics to identify the right person for the right place at the right time and be able to get that much faster. So an individual is fulfilled with what they're doing. They feel the purpose, they feel heard, they feel understood, they're contributing, and then the organization is supported because of their actions.

Yes.

So I'm excited about all of that work that's going to be happening. This, you know, last year and this year and onward.

Wow, pretty cool. All right, uh, the very last question I have for you is, uh, what is one word that will present our shared experience on this podcast today?

Um, see, there's a few words. Uh, enjoyable. Um, this is a lot more enjoyable, uh, than my stress told me, um, and my fear. Um, you know, it was I learned a lot, you know, got a couple book recommendations, learned a little bit more about the Navy, which is always fun, and just had a great time.

Well, thank you so much. I am always very, very grateful. Thank you for taking the time and being one of our master teachers today, especially for my junior officer and enlisted listening today. I hope if you don't get anything else from this podcast, the one thing is you do need to figure out which benefits you are entitled to and don't prolong don't apologize for it. Take full advantage of all of your benefits. You deserve every bit of it. So thank you so much, Major Chris Lineker. Thank you for being one of our master teachers today.

Thanks, sir, for having me.

Absolutely. Bye for now. Wow, this was great. All right, thank you so much for everybody watching. Just a quick reminder that later today, I have to take off my daughter now, but I think in about an hour or two, I will be back We're gonna go through Proverbs chapter 18. Today is January the 18th. I'm talking about ancient wisdom. This has nothing to do with religion. It's about focusing on leadership lessons and ancient wisdom from the book of Proverbs, right? A book written more than 2,000 years ago, but one that I believe is still relevant today because those leadership principles can still be applied. And for those who've been watching, so I started that January the 1st, Every day I go through one chapter of Proverbs. Like January 1st, we did chapter 1, and today's the 18th, we're gonna do chapter 18, and we're gonna end January 31st with chapter 31st, which is the last chapter of Proverbs. Something I used to do when I was like 12, 13 years old, every year I will go through the book of Proverbs. After I got married in 2001, I did that with my wife, and this is the first time I'm doing this publicly. So I'd like to get your insight But just one difference between what we're going to study today and what we've done so far, and all of those lessons are available, whatever your favorite podcast platform is. I usually focus on 7 lessons for each chapter. Today we're going to have 9 lessons. So 2 bonus lessons today. Hopefully you guys are going to enjoy that. I'm going to talk about 4 different types of leadership based on what my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell taught me, but I will also be talking about the Ultimate sacrifice for leadership. There is a verse, the last verse of Proverbs 18. I've really never seen into action until I joined the US Navy, until I joined the military, when it says, "There is a friend who sticks closer than a brother." There are friends that I've met when I joined the Navy 21 years ago, they are still my friend today. They are closer to me than my own biological brother. Now I know My siblings, they love me a lot, but I don't think my brother or my sister would voluntarily give their life for me. But I know sailors, I know people who are not related to me, to my right and to my left, who are willing to give their life for me. That really, really means a lot. But anyway, we're going to be talking about that in about an hour or two, if you can join us. And then I have— tomorrow is Martin Luther King Day, so we're going to do Proverbs chapter 9. 19 tomorrow. And then on Tuesday, I will have another interview. I will be posting the promo later today. But thank you so much for being with us today. I hope to see you in a couple of hours and tomorrow. And I really appreciate all of you. Hopefully you've learned something. So let us know what you are learning, 3 to 5 highlights from this conversation. And this podcast should be available on all podcast platforms by the end of with today. Thanks again. Bye for now.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership Success Podcast with your host, Coach Bisi. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.