S5:E22 🎙️Live with LTC Dean Huard, U.S. Army (Ret.) 🇺🇸🪖

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation I'm proud to say is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast. Podcast with Coach B. Hi, I'm Lieutenant Colonel Dean Heward, and I'm CW5 David Hunt. We're from 13th Sustainment Command stationed here in Camp Arifjan, Kuwait. Congratulations to the Ducks for winning the Rose Bowl, and we can't wait to see another win in the national championship. Go Ducks!

Alright, thanks so much for joining us for another episode of the Leadership Success podcast. We have a very special guest waiting in the green room right now. But as is our tradition, let's start with our moment of gratitude. This is a moment we take, usually less than a minute, We just want to make sure we are grateful for something every single time we meet. That's really good for your mental health, especially for the service members in the US Armed Forces, as about 21 service members commit suicide every single day. So if you would maybe close your eyes and put yourself in your happy place, take a deep breath to slow down your nervous system and think about one thing you are grateful for today. Yesterday was Martin Luther King Day, and I am just So grateful that I believe I live in the greatest country in the world, the best country that's ever been. I am a US citizen by choice. I chose to be an American citizen, right? African by birth, French by culture, but I wanted to be here because America really is the only country with a dream. And of course, MLK's best speech, one of the best speeches ever, I Have a Dream. And really, America is the only country I know in the world with a dream, right? There is no African dream, no Congolese dream, no French dream, no European dream, but there is the American dream. And, uh, that's part of the reason why I joined the, uh, US Navy and, uh, part of the reason why I am willing to give my life for this idea. America is worth fighting for. So anyway, I am grateful to be an American, and let us know what you are grateful for today. Also let us know, uh, where you are joining us from, what city, what state, if outside of the US, which country. And also, if you have a question for my guest, please type it in the comments. So thank you so much for joining us. All right, let me see if I can properly introduce our guest. I'm gonna try. So today we are going to be speaking to Lieutenant Colonel Dean Eward, US Army retired. Now, Lieutenant Colonel Hewitt is known for his principled leadership, people-first mindset, and unwavering belief that civility is a leadership strength, not a weakness. And I think if we need civility, we need it more today than ever before in our society. So his journey spans combat deployment, multimillion-dollar sustainment operation, municipal governance, and thought leadership on ethical service in a polarized world. If you remember, I believe the first The city manager we interviewed on this podcast was my former professor, Dr. Casey and Lucius from the Naval War College in Monterey, California. But I am really glad and honored to have Lieutenant Colonel Ewert here with us. So if you would please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast Lieutenant Colonel Dean Ewert. All right, Colonel Ewert, how are you doing today, sir? Can you—

I can't hear you again. No.

Okay, I can hear you and I can see you as well. Can you double-check via speaker? Check speaker. Because I can see you and hear you. I really love doing this. Can you hear me now? Try setting speakers. While Colonel Eward is doing that, I want to remind you guys that tomorrow is gonna be Wednesday, right? I will have a great pleasure of interviewing a chaplain tomorrow, Colonel Shabazz. Let me see if I have the, okay. So that is going to be tomorrow. And then on day after tomorrow, I will be speaking to Chief Duane Hart. US Navy, retired. He's a cybersecurity leader. He's written 3 books already, a tech visionary and keynote speaker. I'm going to be talking from the deck plate to the digital battlespace. So that's day after tomorrow. And tomorrow we're going to be talking with Chaplain Colonel Shabazz. Oh, all right. Can you, can you hear me, Nadine? No? Let me try one more thing. Okay, he's going to be right back. We did test this before we started. Let's see. It's really strange.

I can—

I can hear you just fine.

Hey, BZ, I get the same problem. Uh, the, the settings are the same.

And what about the setting for our speaker? I think it's under— let me see— under audio, the audio input, and then the audio output.

Yeah, audio's MacBook Air microphone, audio outputs MacBook Air speakers.

So I should be coming through your speaker, and your volume on the speaker is turned up on the Mac?

All the way up, yeah. All the way up.

Huh, I could hear you just a minute ago.

I know, that's what's weird.

Okay, what is interesting is I can hear you just fine, so I'm sure the audience can hear you too, and I know they can hear me as well.

Do you want to retake and then just do it over the phone?

So actually, yeah, I guess we could do it this way, but okay, let's try one more thing. I'm gonna kick you out and then try to come back.

Okay, sounds good.

All right, so let's see. Can you hear me now?

I can hear you loud and clear. Yeah.

Okay, I really have no idea why it did that, but okay. All right, that's done. For the live, I can't do anything about it, but for what's going to go on all of the podcast platforms, I'm going to remove the 10 minutes we spent trying to get this working. All right, so As I was saying, ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Lieutenant Colonel Dean Rohr. All right, so here we are. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast. How are you doing today, Colonel?

I'm doing great. Texas is pretending like it's winter right now, so yeah, I'm doing good. Thanks.

Yeah, I guess San Francisco is doing the same thing. I love the winters here. I understand there was snow in Maine. At least last week. But wonderful. What are you grateful for today, if anything?

You know, the biggest thing I'm grateful for is my tribe. Over the last year, you know, I've had personally, I've had some setbacks. But I am just uberly impressed with my tribe. I got people that check in with me, you know, all the time. You know, how's it going? You know, how was the day?, you know, that, um, that interview. Um, I've got one friend of mine that checks in weekly, uh, same time. So we can just, uh, you know, kind of mentor each other a little bit.

Yes.

So I just, I just think it's precious. I mean, it's, it's priceless to have people that, that check in with you. Um, and so that is what I'm grateful to have, a really good tribe of people. And they're not just all, you know, veterans. They're, you know, friends, family, people that just check in to see how we're doing.

That is so wonderful. I am going through the Book of Proverbs right now. It's not a religious study or anything, but we just focus kind of like on wisdom, right, from the Book of Proverbs and see how it's still applicable today. And one verse we read the other day was, uh, "A friend who sticks closer than a brother." And I've really felt that love, that friendship, really that brotherhood in the Navy more than any other organization in my life. People I first met them, they were complete stranger. I didn't know them from Adam, but then they became my friend and now they are closer than my own biological brothers and sister. And they are willing to take a bullet for me. I cannot say that at IBM or Microsoft or Google. So it's really amazing the bond that you form and what people are willing to do for one another. Shared risk, shared value. And there is nothing like it. But anyway, thank you so much for—

Oh, thank you. That's a great conversation because I think as we get older, it's important to have those connections.

Yes.

For you and your listeners, there's a great author out there, David Brooks and Arthur Brooks. But Arthur Brooks wrote a book called Strength to Strength, and it's about That midpoint in life. And one of the things he talks about is the importance of friendship. You don't have to have a lot of friends, and I've actually referred to them as casket friends, those people that are going to be next to you when you're gone. And so it's important to have really good friendships that meant to you throughout your life.

That means so much. And yeah, it's true. It's becoming more and more important. Today, and I'm getting older than when I was younger. And friends I made 21 years ago when I went to boot camp, you know, Articy, Great Mistakes, I mean Great Lakes in Chicago, they are still my friends today. It's just incredible, the bonds that you form. You really become more than just teammates. It's really a family. Wow. And if you have at least a handful of those in your life, I think you are really blessed. You are super lucky. So let me ask you this. Is there something about you that most people may not know about when they Mitsu?

I mean, honestly, I've led a life of service. So I think anybody that knows me knows that, you know, knows that I'm about service and, you know, helping others, you know, and sharing with others. That's been my, my modus operandi, you know, ensuring that, that I've led a life of service and started, you know, when I was younger. But I guess as it relates to service, maybe something some folks don't know is there's always sacrifice with service. But I did things a little different in life where I spent 13 years in the Guard and Reserve, and then 9/11 happened. And like a lot of other veterans, I really wanted to go active duty. Um, I, I, I got commissioned in the Guard at the University of Oregon through ROTC. Mm-hmm. But then I did 13 years Weekend Warrior, you know, like we were talking before when we, we, uh, went on the air. Um, always kind of wishing that I had done active duty. So 9/11 happened. I had the opportunity to do that. And I, I think the one thing that people don't realize, um, maybe about me is just the, it, it was true that I had sacrifice. Uh, but the family sacrifice, uh, is my, my wife. Um, I'm actually in her office right now while, while she's out of town. But my wife and family went through a lot of sacrifice so that I can do what I wanted to do and serve on active duty. So I think that's, that's the story behind service is that, yes, that, um, that, that families make.

That is so powerful. When I had the opportunity to be a commanding officer, nothing I loved more than writing a thank you letter to the spouses of my people because they serve too and they sacrifice a lot. As a matter of fact, no, I may be commander in the Navy, but in my household, the commander is my wife, not me. So I am her seaman. So whatever she says, she's gonna get it.

I get it. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

So maybe you can tell us briefly kind of your story. Two things. One, how you got to become a senior officer in the most powerful army in the world, but also a city manager, which is pretty fascinating.

Yeah.

How did that happen?

I think there's some parallels there. So like I alluded to, I did, you know, 13 years Guard and Reserve, came on active duty, and then I retired in '23 with 34 years total.

Wow.

And, you know, before that, all my education was government, you know, political science. My first job out of college was managing two campaigns for the state legislature in Oregon. So I kind of had that political bug, if you will. My favorite movie was Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

Yes.

I'm dating myself because it's a black and white movie from many years ago with Jimmy Stewart. But that to me kind of laid the foundation for me and whether or not I was going to do something in government and politics. And after that experience of, I'll call it, you know, red and blue politics, I decided that really wasn't the route that I wanted to go on. So, so fast forward about 20 years after a 34-year career total as an Army logistician, I decided that I still wanted to serve. But at the time, I really wasn't interested in maybe doing more government work, defense contractor work, that kind of thing. And I just started researching, you know, other ways to serve. And I had a lot of friends that, that were veterans that transitioned into local government. And so I was very fascinated with, you know, not doing something— what's that phrase, you know, act globally but think locally. So I got involved with our local city, got on the planning and zoning committee. My wife was on the economic development committee. And so I did then, once I retired, I did a fellowship with the city of Georgetown, which was very instrumental in my decision-making because that was a, it's kind of like a skills bridge. And the military has what's called skills bridge programs where you do an internship. But with this one, there's really no job slated for you at the end of it, but you do get to learn about what it's like to be in local government. Management. So, uh, I made the transition. Um, I interviewed with a lot of different cities, West Coast, uh, Texas, and then got hired on as a city manager in a very small city outside of Austin called the Village of the Hills.

Wow.

And it was a very unique city, 2,600 people, uh, 1,105 homes, uh, had a country club and a park.

And nice.

It was unique in that it didn't have the same revenue sources because there wasn't a lot of sales tax revenue. So that's kind of where my journey began, is I wanted to continue to serve. And then so I transitioned into local government with that—

wow—

that city. So I'm not, I'm not the first, uh, veteran to go into local government. There were many more that kind of paved the path., you know, a laundry list of folks that are still kind of, that are still in my tribe that are, that are current city managers. So it's, wow. And it's a very, um, it's a very applicable, transferable skill set from active duty, you know, local government or to, to local government because at the end of the day, it's, um, it's, it's leading people, um, it's understanding because, you know, in, in the military you go from being in charge of large budgets, uh, lots of people, lots of equipment. So it's a very transferable skill. And then, so I would also encourage anybody that's interested, it's not just for, you know, the senior leader that wants to go manage a city. It's also for, um, the HR person that did HR on active duty to go be an HR person, local government. Signal IT person that wants to go do IT in local government. So, so lots of transferable skills.

Yes, and I guess especially for the enlisted and junior officers out there, sometimes they don't really know how to translate what they do in the Navy or the military to the civilian world, and it's very important to spend some time to kind of think about all of the transferable skills we have, especially leadership, which is something people— I can tell you in the industry, they really don't prioritized very much and something that I think anybody in the military can always bring to.

Well, and it's also something that even as a, you know, you know, you know, even as a retired lieutenant colonel sometimes, and I, you know, and I think I went through the process the way you're supposed to, you know, I was at program transition assistance and then, you know, I, you know, then I did this fellowship. But, uh, the biggest piece of advice I would give, you know, about 2 years out is that you have to know yourself. Like, you really— and there's obviously lots of books, uh, but— and I really think that, you know, the Army, the military does a really good job of training us to be better leaders to other people.

Yes.

But I, I think we missed the mark a little bit on, um, learning how to, you know, build yourself first, you know, learning how to figure out who you are. And, and maybe they did that over the last 34 years. I, I just missed that class. But, uh, and as a transitioning person, I just think it's vital that you figure out, uh, not just your strengths and weaknesses, but, you know, your, your value system know who you are as a person, because, and how you self-govern, the importance of being emotionally intelligent.

Yes.

So just ground yourself first, figure out what your foundation is, so that you can go off to lead other people.

Excellent advice. Thank you so much for sharing that, Colonel. So let me ask you this, you often reference Capitoldom moments. What was the very first moment in your life when leadership kind of shifted from an idea to a responsibility?

You know, for me, just a quick definition on capitoldom moments. I coined the phrase when I was talking to a graduate class on public administration, and I highlighted out my personal road to service. And I thought through Um, you know, all the events that I had, um, all the events that had happened to me, such as, um, you know, uh, joining the Army, going to basic training, becoming an officer. Um, but then before that, uh, I was student body president of the college I went to, a small town off the coast, uh, in Coos Bay. And so it was little moments like that. And, you know, going back to the Mr. Smith Goes to Washington reference is, you know, he, so Mr. Smith, Jimmy Stewart, there you go. Mr. Smith, Jimmy Stewart was a very naive do-gooder, I think from the Midwest. And he, you know, had this idea to have a boys camp and So, but what ended up happening was he ended up becoming a U.S. senator. So his first trip to Washington, D.C., even though, like, he, he was well versed in the U.S. Constitution, he was well versed in everything about democracy. He shows up to the Capitol for the first time, gets out of the car and looks up at the Capitol dome and just very naively says, "Look, the Capitol dome." And so I know that's a very naive moment for me as well, but I coined that phrase that those were to me, a lot of those service moments, they were Capitol dome moments to me. So to answer your question about, you know, making that transition, for me, it was really standing in front of that formation for the first time in front of, and I was in a guard unit in Coos Bay after I got my commission, standing in front of that unit for the first time, realizing that, oh, you know, this wasn't theory anymore. This was, uh, as a platoon leader of an engineer unit, which by the way, um, I, I personally was not an engineer. Like if you ask my wife, I, I can barely screw in a light bulb. So it was, it was unique because, you know, a lot of imposter syndrome because I was in charge of a unit that wasn't my forte. But what the Army does is it teaches you to lead people not based off of your, your technical capability. Although looking back on it, yes, I wish I would have had more, you know, of an engineer of a background. But the beauty of the Army and the military in general is that they teach you that you're not the subject matter expert. You're, you're the one responsible for, for the mission, but you're, you're taking a group of people with different capabilities, different backgrounds. And you're, you're, you're supposed to, you know, you're supposed to accomplish the mission. So they don't.. But once you put that rank on and you're in front of that formation, they're, they're not asking really what, what school you went to, what your capability is.

Mm-hmm.

Know that you did everything you're supposed to do to lead those troops.

Yeah.

Now guess what? You're in charge. Um, so, so that really was that moment for me coming from, you know, theory in college.

Yes.

Going through ROTC to,, and, and it didn't matter if it was, you know, Guard, Reserve, active duty soldiers. Yes. The Guard was a little, little unique because you had, you had people that came from all walks of life, all different backgrounds.

Hmm.

Um, and so that, that part was very, was very unique, but it was, again, figuring out how I was going to manage and lead, um, wow, 30 people as a 23-year-old just, just out of college. Very unique.

Yes, indeed. Wow. What you said, I thought about a lot of things. I remember when I first joined the Navy and I became commissioned as an information professional officer, we were really— the expectation was to be very technical, especially as a junior officer. We had to get all types of qualifications. But the more senior I became, especially when I became like an O-4, Lieutenant Commander or Major, equivalent in the Army. That's when I started to be more of a leader of people than an expert in my field. And then of course the information warfare community, which then included intel, MITOC, and a bunch of other designators that had nothing to do with my specialty, and being able to work with them in order to accomplish the mission of the command. That is so, so powerful. Now you mentioned Washington, DC. So growing up near D.C., how did early exposure to democratic institutions like the dome and all of that kind of shape your understanding of service and duty?

Well, I think that's where it all started. You know, my childhood memory isn't really good, but I can remember back to, you know, when we were living in Northern Virginia, I grew up a Coast Guard brat. And quite frankly, back then, served, you know, 26 years in the Coast Guard. And, you know, back then, you know, the Coast Guard is just a very unique branch. I'm not sure what the numbers are now, but back then it was probably like 35,000 people. And he didn't, you know, spend a lot of boat time, ship time. He was a supply officer. But so that was the background for me. And that's what brought us to Northern Virginia. And I'm a big believer, you know, that everything happens for a reason. So, so yeah, on Sundays we would go to the Capitol. We would, you know, go to Smithsonian's and, and I don't know what, what the moment was, but I know it was during that timeframe when we were there where, you know, we would walk the halls of, of the Capitol and remember doing a book report., you know, you know, on the— on those days, you know, when I— when we were in the Capitol, uh, and remember seeing the doors of Robert Dole, you know, from many years ago. And, um, so yeah, I think that's just kind of when I got the bug was learning about, you know, the federal system and the founders and, you know, the colonies and, you know, how, how the country was formed.

Yes.

Um, But then since then, you know, I think as citizens, we probably don't have a good feel for how our government really works. And, you know, especially at a federal level. But then, you know, as a citizen that pays taxes for, you know, for our cities, you know, the water, you know, property taxes, I think it takes a doesn't take a PhD, but it takes a— you really have to be a concerned citizen to figure out exactly how your individual government runs. Because I remember, you know, even as a city manager, I would go back to my old unit and they would say to me, hey, what's it like being the mayor? No, I'm not the mayor. You know, the mayor is the elected person. I'm the one that make sure that, you know, the trash is picked up on time, that there's events for the cities. And so not to take anything away from the manager's role, but sometimes, you know, people don't understand exactly how their own government is working. So, but for me, yeah, it started back in D.C. And that's when, you know, I decided to major in political science. I minored in public administration. And then even before I left active duty, I decided to get another credential from the Bush School at Texas A&M on public management. So it was a— it's definitely been an evolution, but that's where it started in DC.

That is really fascinating. And also when I look at your career, So you were on active duty, the reserve, but also the National Guard, pretty much all three branches of the US Army. So many people, they tend to think that military leadership is command and control. In my experience, that's the way it was 21 years ago, but it's definitely changed a lot, especially now with all of these Gen Zs coming into the military. They need to be led a little bit differently. But anyway, what did combat and sustainment operation actually teach you about trust? Collaboration, and humility.

Well, you know, it's funny, as a logistician, I, you know, I personally take a lot of pride in, you know, being behind the scenes. And I've done a lot of research over this last year. And it's interesting because there's not a lot of books written on logistics, even though there's a lot of quotes out there. On the importance of logistics because, you know, wars are fought and won over, you know, supplies, ensuring that the warfighter has exactly what they need. So, but you mentioned humility. I think to be a really good logistician, you know, you have to be humble because, because what you're doing, you know, behind the scenes is a very humbling, um, uh, you know, is a very humbling act. And maybe, I don't know, you know, looking back as I've been reflecting, maybe watching my dad, uh, you know, he was a storekeeper, supply officer, and I watched him get a lot of job satisfaction out of very simple things like, you know, ensuring that, that, that, that the store that he ran, the exchange, that everybody had what they needed. And really, I, it's funny, I, I watched him, um, how people would come into that store and it became like a sense of community, you know. People look forward to coming to see him, coming to see the employees because, you know, he, he treated them well.

Yeah.

So I, and definitely humility, humility. If I look back on my dad, I mean, that's definitely one of the you know, one of his characteristics. So I think, you know, humility is really important when it comes to, you know, sustaining operations. And as a logistician, I can't remember all the tenets, but one of them is being anticipatory.

Yes.

So, you know, as logisticians, we are responsible of ensuring that, you know, that we give the warfighter everything that they need. And maybe we're thinking we've got a little bit more for them so that they can, can go achieve what they need to for the warfighting effort.

Wow, that is so powerful. Really, when it comes to leadership, right, every job counts. No job is too small, especially when whatever you are doing is really contributing to the mission of the organization. Because being a storekeeper, it's happened to me many times, I have to report for duty something is wrong with my uniform, I need to have my name tag, I need to have my medal or whatever it might be. I need to be compliant to the uniform regulation before I show up at 0600 tomorrow. And if, you know, your shop doesn't have it, then I am in real trouble. And of course, it's going to affect my mission too. I think it was Jeff K. White when he was talking about going to the moon, he went to NASA, he saw that gentleman who was just I guess he was a janitor, I believe. And he got to ask him, hey, what is your mission? What do you do here at NASA? And this janitor says, no, my job is to take the man to the moon. Exactly. So powerful. Just that alignment.

Right.

Wow.

Well, and I think that's true. I mean, if you look at what happened last night with Indiana and based on— I'm not an Indiana guy, but I absolutely love the story because You know, I bet you Coach Cignetti has that same attitude that, you know, no matter if it's the guy handing out towels, that, that everybody has a role. It's that entire team that it's those behind the scenes teammates that, that make that operation successful. And, and I've always felt that way, you know, again, as a logistician, because I think the phrase is it takes 7 or 8 logisticians to support the one warfighter. And that's why— so you take a lot of pride in that, that, you know, that warfighter needs, needs food, fuel, ammunition, you know, maintenance parts, all that. That's— it's all integral for the success of the operation.

Hmm. That is, that is really something. And one thing in my experience that kind of changed through time, initially as IP officer, we were really looked at, you know, as support to the warfighter. We take out telecommunication, computers, or whatever, but we are supporting the actual warfighter. But then that kind of changed where we became the warfighter too, you know, especially as information warfare became more and more central in the way we fight wars. This day. So we do get the star too in the uniform, just like the Swans or everybody else. But it is quite amazing though, when whatever you are doing, when you can connect that to the big mission of the organization and kind of see what your part is and really nobody can do that job but you. And if you don't do it, then it is going to affect the entire organization.

Since this is a leadership podcast, I gotta, you know, put— actually, you know, make this point as well, is that that is the job of Peter. That, that's to me, that's the essential, or at least not quintessential, but that's one of the jobs a leader is to bring all those different capabilities. Because my last job on active duty, I was the chief of staff of a sustainment unit, but as the XO, I had HR, intel, supply, improvement. And so the job is to, you know, bring everybody together so that they understand what the— because when you have, when you have a staff that are just focused on the internal mission, they may not understand or appreciate what's going on externally. So That's the job of the leader, and what I try to do as a chief of staff is to help the internal staff understand what, you know, exactly what the big picture is.

That is quite powerful. Now, during our operation in Ariane 2 Resolve, you coordinated with over 30 organizations. Wow, that's a lot. What leadership behaviors made collaboration possible at that scale?

I think that two words, trust and transparency, because, and really understanding, really understanding everybody's capability. So yeah, that was a very interesting mission because for us personally, because when we literally got on the plane, we thought that our mission was going to be retrograding equipment out of Afghanistan. Which we did. But in addition to the real mission, which was to, to set up BPC sites, or like, I call them mini cities because we were, we were tasked with providing the life support for about, I want to say it was like 30,000 Iraqi soldiers. And our job wasn't to train them as a sustainment unit, but our job was enable the warfighter to do their mission. So we set up these BPC sites throughout all of Iraq to make sure that, that they had everything that they needed to train the Iraqis. So that, that required a lot of collaboration, coalition building with, as you mentioned, all those countries, because all those countries were going to be supporting and training the Iraqis, the Americans in our sustainment unit had the mission to, to stand up all those, you know, all those, all those different mini cities. Hmm. But yet, to answer your question, trust, transparency, you know, collaboration, and realizing that, that, that everybody's there for the right reason. Everybody has good intentions. Everybody has a common purpose. You know, that's exactly why they're there, is to, you know, that everybody wants to do the right thing. And I think if you have that mentality, then you're going to be very successful.

So during your active duty time, what do you think is one of the most difficult leadership decisions you made in uniform? And what did it cost you personally?

You know, for me personally, it really came towards the end of my career because I was trying to rack my brain on, you know, like tactical decisions that were life or death. But, but what, what the biggest decisions that I made, I think, were working as a chief of staff where, where I had real-world conflict management. Now, I had them on active duty, but what sticks in my mind are the ones where I had about probably 90% civilian staff and the rest military. And the decisions that I made, you know, obviously affected everybody, but I had to deal with real-world conflict management resolutions, situations where, you know, maybe my personnel section wasn't getting along with my budget section. And as a leader, you do a lot of that. I mean, you do a lot of, and that's not something that, it's really not something that you're taught in class at CGSE or any type of school. You're, you just, from lieutenant to, you know, lieutenant colonel to general, I think you probably spend a big part of your career, you know, dealing with people, obviously, but, and then dealing with those personalities and learning how to deflect and reduce conflict management. So I won't, you know, give too many details, but, but, but I, looking back on it, you just spend an inordinate amount because it's a people business, you know, you're dealing with people. And their backgrounds and preconceived notions and large, large egos too.

Sometimes egos.

Yeah, I mean, definitely large, large egos. And but the bottom line is when it comes to your organization is making people re-understand expectation, you know, expectation management so that they understand why they're there. And understand what their common purpose is, which is, you know, uh, you know, whatever your, your, you know, your mission is, um, as a leader, you're helping them understand, hey, look, you may have issues and problems with your neighbor, but that's not why we're here. We're, we're here to do a mission that's bigger than, than, than you and I put together.

So true. Of course, I love the leadership mantra I learned throughout my Navy career, mission first, because we do have to accomplish that mission. But people, people always. Now you mentioned life and death. That's another big, big difference I see between the military and the industry, right? In Silicon Valley where I am, doesn't matter if you work for Microsoft, Google, or OpenAI or whatever, there's never gonna really be a life and death situation. Nobody is going to die if you make a dumb decision. Worst that might happen, you know, You might lose some money or a business deal might go sour or something. But how did you maintain composure and moral clarity when the stakes were life, death, and critical mission failure? How did you do that?

Well, I think that goes to my other— this topic that I have that I've written about over this last year is civility. Is I think it's so important in today's society that, that because, you know, politics of what they are, um, at the federal level on down to the local level, um, the, the really good leaders that, um, that I've been, that, that I've been mentored by, they are, they are civil leaders. And if, if you have that, um, that baseline, that of decorum and being civil treating everybody with dignity and respect, you're going to be able to deal with those life or death situations. Um, now I think it helps that you have a few of those to, to get tested, but, um, but, but you really have to have that in you to, yes, to, to really be effective. Um, and you're right, like in the military, we're, we're we're going to have more opportunities. You know, as a logistician, in the types of deployments I had, I didn't have life or death personally, but I provided resources that if they didn't get to the right person at the right time, then there could be some consequences that were, that were possibly life or death. But, but again, I go back to The importance of, you know, the importance of how you're self-governed. And hopefully part of that is, you know, being civil, having decorum, having dignity, respect for other people. That's it. That's what I think makes a really effective leader.

Wow, really insightful. Let me talk a little bit about your transition from battlefield to city hall. To me, the city is really a microcosm of our entire society, including our federal government. So your transition into city management kind of exposed you to a very different kind of battlefield. Now, there is definitely politics, a lot of polarization. I know that tends to happen probably more now than ever before in our country, it seems like. But what kind of surprised you most during your transition?

Well, I think because I have that background of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, I was very, very, I guess, very, very naive. But then I look back on it, you know, like I mentioned earlier, my first job out of college was managing two campaigns for the state legislature. And, you know, truth be told, I got fired. I got fired by the consultants at 22 years old because they didn't like the way that the campaign was being run. So, You know, I saw firsthand, you know, just how difficult that world can be. But, and so I had that same type of, I'll call it Mr. Smith Goes to Washington attitude when I went into local government. Because honestly, the people that I worked with at the City of Georgetown and you know, the city of Nolanville, Texas, outside Fort Hood. Everybody wants to do the right thing. I mean, everybody really wants— they're there for— because they all have public servant hearts. Like, they want to do the right thing for the people. But sometimes, you know, when elected leaders get into position, some of them are not really in it for the right reason. Yeah, there can be, you know, a lot of micromanagement. You can get some of the, you know, the red and blue politics. And, you know, and it's a real shame because we're not— I think we're at our best as Americans, as citizens, is when we all work together, when we all find a way to compromise. So, and I think some cities are better at it than, than others. Um, but if you, um, but as a city manager, um, looking back on it, I probably should have do this. I should have done this, but a lot of cities will have, you know, like governance training, you know, when the city councilor comes in, uh, hey, look, this is how, this is how government runs because, you know, most city councilors when they run um, or at least a lot of them will have like some, uh, some, you know, some agendas. You know, they want to make sure the parks are better. They, they, they, they don't want to see businesses, you know, flourishing. So maybe they come into it with the wrong mindset. You know, it's like they, uh, you know, they want to, they, they want to change, but they may not want to cooperate to to see that change. But, um, but again, I'll end that question on a positive note because there are so many good, uh, elected leaders out there. There are so many good, uh, servant leaders out there in local government that just, you know, want to see things, uh, done properly, you know, in their city. Um, because I, I quite frankly, uh, if, if people want to serve and they want to give back You can do at the federal level, you can do at the state level, but, but if you really want to see government in action, then go to your local city hall, find out what committees are open, serve on a committee. I serve on our local economic development committee. Like I mentioned prior, when I was at Fort Hood thinking about I want to go local government, I serve on the Planning and Zoning Committee. There are, there are a million ways to serve that aren't at the, at the highest level.

Um, so yeah, well, that is really, um, powerful to say because one reason why, you know, when I think about city government, again, I believe it's a microcosm of our entire society, especially because in the past you have openly, uh, and spoken about dysfunction and micromanagement, but just know this toxic environment we live in, even as a country right now, where there is polarization and all of this politicization of things and division. Just, I guess, generally speaking, my question for you is how should leaders navigate toxic environment in general without losing themselves? What would you recommend?

I think it all goes back to, to building yourself first, you know, being self-aware, you know, understanding who you are as a person, uh, making sure that, uh, because I really believe this, like, if you don't, um, if you don't build yourself first, if you don't learn how to self-govern yourself, then you shouldn't be governing others. Like, you, you should, you know, kind of support from afar because And so, you have to have the right value system. So, I think that's the most important part is to make sure that you know who you are, you're self-governed well so that way you can go and effectively govern others.

That's powerful. I think Socrates was the one who says, "Know thyself first," which is so powerful. Yeah, I like something my primary uncle, Papa John, taught me, right, is to have great values, value people, and then want to add value to people, all people, regardless of who they are, where they come from, and their background. I think you can really make a big difference. So let me ask you this one more question before we go to the last segment. Civility. One of the quotes that you've said over and over again, and I really love it, is Civility is not weakness, but strength. Especially in the time we are living now, I think we need civility more than ever before. Why is civility now a leadership requirement rather than a nice-to-have?

So, I would argue that throughout our history, you know, the greatest leaders that we've had, that has been one of their hallmarks. So, if you look at— and I'm not doing the red or blue thing. Um, but, you know, go, uh, go back to our first president.

Go back to George Washington.

Yeah, George Washington. Uh, he actually wrote, um, uh, a civility book on, um, and I think he based it off the Jesuits. Um, and it's just a very practical way to, um, to govern yourself. But yeah, I, I think today's leader needs that today's leader needs a lot more civility. And, you know, I, you know, I look at my, my personal 34-year career, Guard, Reserve, Active Duty, the leaders that, that I responded to most and that were, that I consider mentors now, the General Foggs, the General Williams, the General Simmerlees, you know, they were to me a pillar of civility. Because with those three individuals, uh, I never, uh, saw them— and not that, not that you shouldn't, but I never saw them raise their voice in anger. Um, and going back and reflecting a little bit, um, I saw that with my father too. I mean, he just was the most steady, even-keel compassionate, likable guy. But, and if you, if I could label him now, he was probably, you know, one of my first, like, civil leaders.

Yeah.

So, um, yeah, I really think that today's environment needs, really needs more civility. And, um, uh, I think it would help us out at a federal level. That way, you know, you would have leaders that were more interested in getting things done, you know, opposed to being concerned about your agenda, you know, what your policy is. There needs to be more, a lot more compromise because like days of Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill, you know, like both of them would be adversaries during the day and then at night they would, you know, sit down and, you know, have a drink and tell Irish stories together because they were both, you know, had some Irish background.

Yes.

So, wow. There really needs to be more of that. And you mentioned, you know, civility not being a weakness because I think that's the problem is when people see it as, oh, you're compromising, that means you don't— you're not true to your agenda. No. You're actually finding a way to move the ball forward and to be effective as a leader.

That is so powerful. That's why I love, you know, E Pluribus Unum, right? Out of many, one. We have so much more in common as Americans than we have that divide and separate us. That's why, you know, one of the recent lessons you mentioned, Ronald Reagan, it was a good one, but also John McCain, who happened to have had military experience too. When he says, you know, uh, country before party. That was pretty powerful. Before I am a Republican, Democrat, or whatever your party affiliation is, first and foremost, I am a U.S. citizen. And that really makes a big difference when you look at it through those lenses.

And that's what's great about, uh, the military too, is that, uh, there is no, um, we're, we're just not as divided as the country is because you know, there is one mission and everybody is, you know, comes from different backgrounds, you know, economic status. But at the end of the day, it's, it's all about the mission. It's all about, you know, protecting the country and, and serving. So there's, there's no color to that. There's no economic status to that. It's we're, we're, we're all in this together. And I think if there was more of that. And then with that, you know, you have the complement of civility because, um, uh, you know, I know more— I've had more good mentors in the military, uh, because they, they, they do, uh, project civility.

Uh, yes. So yeah, that's really powerful. Okay, the last segment, let me start with, uh, What do you think is the greatest lesson you have ever learned, or one of the greatest lessons in leadership, in life in general?

You know, I personally think that there's this misnomer that, you know, that it's lonely at the top, that you can't, you know, if you're the leader, you know, you can't be friendly. So I know there's some nuances in there, but my point is, is that, you know, leadership doesn't have to be a lonely existence. Because, you know, looking back on my 34 years, I was a, you know, a staff officer the good majority of my career, but I led a lot of people. And I am— I'm friendly. I'm, you know, with, you know, with those people. I've mentored a lot of them. So it's, it's not that leadership is like this, you know, you're, you're, you're in this, um, you're in this cave by yourself and, and nobody can, you know, be with the leader. Um, because, you know, leaders make hard decisions. Leaders do make hard decisions. However, um, you know, leaders build a culture for a team.

And so it's important that Say that one more time, please. That's powerful.

Well, I think leaders are the ones responsible for building the culture. That's part of my philosophy is you need to be the culture king or queen of your organization. And then your responsibility is to push it on down so that they all have— and then everybody becomes a culture king in their particular subset of the organization. So, it starts at the top. But yeah, I think culture has to be king.

That is really powerful and insightful. So, what do you think is the greatest leadership advice you have received so far?

I think the importance of the tribe is I think you and I talked about a little bit before we came on the air and, you know, understanding the importance of building your tribe. And that is a— and really with that is the importance of mentorship. As a leader, I think you're judged by, you know, who who you led, uh, and, and, you know, did you lead them as, um, did you lead their whole person? Because a lot of times on active duty, uh, some leaders would get in the trap of only leading them as a soldier. I, you know, I didn't see that. I, uh, because years ago when, you know, we didn't want captains to leave the Army, uh, that, that was a big deal. Like, oh well, you know, because of numbers, you We need to keep the captain. No, no, the, the captain needs to go where he or she, uh, is destined to go. And your job as their leader is to help them get there. You're— I can't stress that enough. I mean, your job isn't just to help them while they're there on active duty. Um, your job is to help them beyond that. So I would always, you know, hey, when you're getting ready to transition, You need help with your resume? You know, can I, can I get you in contact with anybody that I know that's in that industry that you want to go to? Yes. Is we are, we are leading people, um, holistically, not just, um, in that short time while they are there. Because I, I think one of the greatest, um, one of the greatest things about your leadership, or if you're being judged as a leader, is Do they call you, you know, after you're the leader? Do they, you know, do they want you to, you know, do they want you to promote them?

Yeah.

So that's huge.

Wow, that is so powerful. Because sometimes you're right, when you are a leader, especially in the military, and you are the officer in charge, sometimes you, you almost want to help your folks and you do care for them, but you want them to be almost like a version of yourself. You want them to have the same opportunity and kind of climb up the ladder like you did, but that's really not for everybody. Sometimes you can do everything you can to have someone promote to the next rank, but life happens where really the best thing for them is to get out of the service altogether. Something happening at home or their work, education, or whatever the case might be, it's really to help them do what is best for them as a person and not just know what's going to be great for your organization of the, the mission of, uh, your command. And that's a lesson I definitely had to learn.

Yeah, so to add on to that, one of the things that I, I would do too is that, look, look, if you don't respond to me and my, and my mentorship, uh, you know, because I think it's sometimes important too that you, you mentor people that have a similar background. And so, you know, I would get out my Rolodex of friends, uh, or on LinkedIn now. And, you know, hey, if there's somebody that I know that you would benefit more from and respond to better, then have at it. Because again, my job as a leader and a mentor is to mentor them. Yes. But if I can't, then I'm going to find somebody that can.

Powerful. So what do you think is the secret of your success? 35+5 years in the US Army, you rose to the senior rank of Lieutenant Colonel. That's only 2 promotions away from getting a 1-star. And then in city government as well. Why are you so successful, do you think?

Well, I appreciate you saying that with the success part because I think we all deal with a little imposter syndrome to determine whether or not, you know, we're at the level that we need to be. But honestly, I think it's it's really just, you know, how I, you know, how I've tried to treat people. And hopefully that's reciprocated with, you know, treating people with dignity, respect, you know, being the civil leader that people want. So yeah, I think it just comes down to people, like, you know, treating people the way that they want to be treated. Because don't be a leader if you don't like people. You know, if, if, if you don't love people, if you don't like people. And because what's interesting is if I watched, uh, the National Championship Gamble last night and mentioned Indiana earlier, when Mario Cristobal was, uh, was interviewed, and what, what he said was, you know, there's a lot of guys in there that love each other. And, and so I just, I think that love aspect is important too, that you—

Yes.

You have to love and care for your people. So, I think that's what's made me successful.

Wow. That is so powerful. The older I get, I think the more I realize it's really about caring and loving one another. That's really what makes a very, very good team. Wow. Powerful. So, what are you learning right now?

Uh, I am learning the importance of, uh, self-care, uh, self-governance, and, uh, and really reflection, uh, because I think that's something that, that we don't do enough of. And, you know, there's lots of books out there. Ryan Holiday with the Stoicism and, you know, Stillness. Um, but yeah, I, I think it's important that, uh, you take the time to build yourself first, uh, know how to self-govern. And, uh, because the, the better you are at that, the, the better leader you're going to be. And, um, and I think, um, like over your career you get tunnel vision and you don't, um, and it's not— I'm gonna make a joke— it's not about going to the spa, you know, but if that's part of your routine, then that's great.. But it's just being self-aware, understanding who you are.

Yes.

And then also taking that time to reflect.

Powerful.

You really don't want— it shouldn't take a health concern to— or a transition in your life, but you should be doing that all along. You know, I used to, I used to look at my boss's calendar and a lot of them will put executive time. And I always wonder like, well, like, what are they doing? You know, what's executive time? And, you know, and looking back on it and talking to some of those leaders, it's just, it's taking time yourself. It's reflection. It's, you know, it's preparation, getting ready for the next meeting.

Yes. I love that.

Yep.

Powerful. And I don't know if you are ready to share that to the audience now, but with all of your reflection, you are working on a book that might be coming up later this year, maybe?

So very initial stages, doing some research, uh, uh, you know, on the topic of leadership. Um, so that is something that, uh, I'm definitely considering, just with the, all my leadership time and then, uh, some of the health setbacks I had 24. And along those same themes of, you know, self-governing, building yourself first. So yeah, long, long ways down there. But, but I, but it's interesting, the more that I research it, quick plug for all the veteran authors that are out there. I mean, I mean, you know, all those authors in general, but, but it is amazing to me how many authors excuse me, how many veterans have written books?

Yes.

And I posted this on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago and it's, but it makes sense, right? Because especially leadership books, because you're in this incubator of leadership your entire career. And what's neat to see is that it's not just the Jockos, you know, Echelon Front, David Burke, you know, Need to Lead, but it's, It's the guys and the gals in the middle. Yeah, all the middle managers, because I think we all have stories to tell. And, um, absolutely, it's refreshing to see that.

Yeah, I remember my primary mentor used to tell me what location is to real estate, leadership is to the officer corps. So, and I thought that was so, so true, but really to the Navy, the military in general. Wow, powerful. Okay, what, what about failure? How has failure shape your life.

Oh, I can, I can definitely relate to that. Uh, I mean, I mean, because without failure, you, uh, I'm not gonna say it's impossible to be a good leader, but, but the more experiences that you get in life— and I'm going to put failure in there, failure, adversity— um, it, it helps you. Um, well, the bottom line is it helps you relate to other people. So if you have stories to tell, it helps you be a better leader because you're able to relate to your people and let them know that, look, I went through that too. I know exactly what it means to, you know, to fail. And so I just, again, reiterate the more failures, the more setbacks, Uh, you're, you're setting yourself up for, um, a better comeback, you know, and it just, and it just, it just refines who you are. It, it, and I think it just makes you a better person and obviously a better leader. Because if you go, if you go through life and there's no adversity, there's no story, um, then it's just very difficult to relate to other people because they— yes, because other people. And, and we saw it, you know, in the military especially, where, um, I mean, we personally, you know, you have soldiers that have family problems. You have, you know, you're dealing with suicide and, and sexual harassment and, and a lot of issues that, that people are, are going through.

Yes.

Especially, especially younger soldiers.

Yes.

That, um, that really don't know how to deal with adversity. And you, unfortunately, you know, when I was in Fort Hood, we had a lot of young soldiers that, that made the wrong choice in life and would take their own life or, or attempt to because, and, and it wasn't because they had gotten back from deployment, you know, PTSD. They were young soldiers. That had never been tested. So when they had the breakup with the girlfriend, they thought it was the end of the world. So they didn't have the skill set to deal with the adversity that comes with life.

Yeah, throughout my entire 21-plus year now of service, uh, I've only lost one sailor, and it's— it was quite tragic, and it was because of a woman. Yeah, we were deployed on the South Sea on the USS Essex and his wife decided to cheat on him with his best friend and she wanted a divorce and he just couldn't take it. And I wish we could have done something, but like you said in the green room before we started, having your tribe is so important to have it, having people who check on you, they don't need anything from you, We just want to know, hey, Jin, how are you doing today?

And it doesn't have to be, uh, something formal, you know, because it really never is. It's just, uh, you know, or like, you know, today I'm gonna check on— or, you know, have a list of your buddies that you're checking on. You, if you care, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna check on them. And I think it goes to— it also goes to mentoring because, you know, the military is really good about, um, about mentoring, you know, having a mentoring program, but sometimes it's a little too formalized. And I think, um, you just, uh, and then the mentoring needs to go beyond your time in service because going back to what we talked about earlier, yeah, you know, you're, you're mentoring them past the day that they're in uniform. So, um, so you need to be proactive with, with the mentoring because like, because in the military we'll say, oh, that's my mentor. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, is it, is it a, is it a one-way street? Is it a two-way street?

Yeah. Reverse mentoring. Yeah. That's important.

Are you contacting them? Are they contacting you? So it's, it's important that, that we just have more proactive mentoring because the more proactive you are in mentoring, you know, maybe uh, somebody could have prevented that sailor from, you know, taking their life.

Yeah, yeah, I guess. No, hindsight is 20/20, like they say, but it really doesn't leave you the same when you experience that. But, uh, yeah, but life, life has to go on. But let me, let me ask you this: is there maybe a, uh, what is one of the greatest fears you've had to overcome in your career or life?

I think the greatest fear is— and I'm going to use this podcast with you as therapy in a way— is I think one of the biggest fears has been, has really been a lack of confidence. Because, and it's funny, as a parent, you want to teach your kids to, you know, to you know, try new things. But, you know, for me, um, I know there's some, you know, controversy right now with, um, um, when it comes to parenting is, you know, should they seek their passion or should they seek their talent? Um, but then, uh, and so nowadays it's more, you know, talent-based, um, and what you're good at opposed to what you're really passionate about. But my, my thing growing up was, um, you know, did not have a lot of confidence when it came to, you know, numbers, math, and science. And I think that's the thing that I should have overcome is, is really to be more comfortable with being uncomfortable, you know, having the confidence to do things that are, that are not within your, your, your confidence factor. Yeah, so that's really my biggest advice. Make sure that you're confident with doing things that really are not your forte.

Yes, that's really a powerful life lesson. I think everybody can definitely learn from that. And you've also mentioned a couple of times imposter syndrome. I know those who are listening right now, it happens to all of us, even Lieutenant Colonels and Commanders in the military. What is one of the tips or how would you recommend people listening to us right now kind of deal with imposter syndrome where you are fully qualified for whatever job you are doing, but you feel like you are an imposter? Like they really made a mistake, they should have chosen somebody else. I think everybody really goes through it because I know I've talked to a lot of 4-star general and admiral. I mean, these people, they almost like, they've changed industry almost the course of history, but even them, Sometimes they feel like they are an imposter. So, how do you explain it? Or more importantly, what do you suggest our listeners do to kind of deal with it?

Well, so I think part of it is I'm kind of a— I'm not a student of history, but I do read a lot of presidential biographies. And to me, it's amazing to look at the backgrounds that some of our elected leaders had. And, and really who they became. Because, you know, if you look at like modern-day history, someone like Harry Truman, that, um, you know, I, I don't know what education level he, he, that, that he attained, but here's somebody that sat in the wings as vice president and FDR didn't give him the time of day. Um, and then all of a sudden FDR dies and he's president. He has to go fight, you know, World War II and try to figure out how to finish it. And just, you know, his background came from nothing. Yeah. And then, and then you look at modern day, you know, look at, look at President Obama. I mean, he came from very little and then became very, you know, what became very educated, you know, became a I think he went to Yale Law School or Harvard. I forget which one.

Harvard. Yes.

And then, and then speaking of him, the other day I saw a video that it really encapsulates the whole imposter syndrome. He's being interviewed and somebody asked him about, you know, all the different people that he gets to be associated with. And he said, he said, those people that, uh, you know, that are at those fancy dinners and at the fancy dinner, um, he said, um, they're just folk. They're, they're just, they're just people. Uh, and then it was kind of funny because he's like, once you get to those circles and you see them, you know, when he's like, I saw him when I was U.S. Senator, I saw that when I was President.

Yeah.

And then you see other countries and their, their elected leaders. And he's like, they're not all that, you know, they're not, they're not any smarter. You know, he's like, maybe half of them are pretty smart, but the other half, they're so, to me, I take, I take great solace in going back in history and looking at people that have gone to the, the most, coveted position in all of, in all of the world. The United States presidency, and you see people that, um, uh, that had another skill set, you know, that, that really made them successful.

I think it's really great to really stay grounded. What, what kind of things do you do to kind of recharge and just stay grounded and not get that big head, like, you know, you are better than everybody else? You're just one of the folks. What, what do you do?

Well, I think if you're a parent of teenage boys, that definitely helps. Yes.

Yes.

Because that grounds you where your kids are like, hey, dad, you know, you're, trust me, you're not Marcus Aurelius.

Yes.

You're not some stoic, you know, philosopher. But I think also, I think it's important to have a routine. And I, I keep going back to the reflection piece.

Yes.

Um, and then, um, yeah, just staying grounded that way, you know, having some reflection and, um, you know, understanding who you are, you know, where you came from. Uh, you know, family is really good about, uh, grounding you as well.

So yes, yes, yes.

And then going back to, you know, the tribe. I mean, having people that, um, that, uh, you know, make you realize that, uh, you know, You may think you're all that and a bag of donuts, but you're really not.

You're not.

Yes.

That is so insightful. I could spend hours and hours with you, but I need to bring this plane down soon. But let me ask you this though. If you could choose 3 people, they could be alive, dead, or even fictional characters to have dinner with, who would you choose and why?

This is a very powerful question.

Yes.

Um, I think, uh, number one, my dad, uh, unfortunately passed away about 12 years ago. So I, I, yeah, so I, I think my dad. I also think, um, um, JFK, uh, because for me, um, JFK and his quote, ask not what your country can do for you, what you can do for your country, that, that kind of sparked my, uh, yeah. My service thought. And, um, I'm gonna say also, I'm gonna say Jesus, uh, and it's funny because, uh, I, I don't, um, my, my religious journey, uh, isn't very public, but, uh, I, I'd say God, uh, or Jesus, you know, to learn more about, um, you know, who we are as people I think that's important.

Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. Okay. Almost toward the end, but I do like to talk about books. We read a lot here. You did mention this book. Why should we read this, From Strength to Strength?

I would really encourage you to read anything by David Brooks and Arthur Brooks that you have on your screen. So the book before this that I read was called Love Your Enemies. By Arthur Brooks. And he was the president of AEI, American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank. And he personally has a fascinating story, I think, because he started out as a French horn player in a symphony, but then also a social scientist, very data-driven. He also wrote the book about, um, uh, yeah, um, how to be happy with Oprah.

Wow.

So he has a lot of different books. I think that— and so the Strength to Strength book is a lot about, uh, um, the, the second half of your life, you know, and that, that transition. Um, and then going back to David Brooks, David Brooks has a book called The Second Mountain, and The Second Mountain is similar. It's about that first mountain in your life where you're focused on career, you know, the ladder. And then that second half really should be about, um, what he talks about is, uh, moral joy, you know, how to, um, how to give back, how to contribute to society.

Yeah, that's so powerful because you really never get fulfillment by just know having, having, having, having me, me, myself, and I. You do have to give back in order to get more fulfillment in life, for sure. You also mentioned our founding father, Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior. Why should we read this one?

I think it's a, um, you know, it's really a foundational book on, on civility, you know, how to be a good person. Uh, I think I mentioned that it's, uh, Jesuit-based Um, you know, he didn't, I think, recreate it himself. I think he probably added to it. But, uh, but I, I think that as a society, the more that we, we read things like that, um, and those become foundational, um, it's real important. Hey, and I would also, uh, plug, uh, a couple other books. One of them is, uh, The Soul of Civility by, uh, Alexandra Hudson. He wrote a book a couple years ago, more like philosophical in nature. And then from a local government standpoint, Diane Kalin wrote a book called Save Your City. And it's again about the toxicity in local government. She's actually, she has a civility summit in April. That I'm gonna, I'm part of the panel. She has a book coming out called Lead with Civility, not published yet, but she had 12 people do kind of like guest essayists. And so I wrote one on civility through the eyes of a veteran. So a lot of things that I just talked about. But anyway, the Civility Summit's in April. Maybe we can put a link in there for anybody that wants to be a part of it.

That is pretty cool. And is she going to write a book about that too, and you're going to be one of the co-authors?

Yeah, so I think it's in— it's not publicized yet or in publication yet, but fantastic. But the— so it's her book, but with 12 essays on civility. With different, uh, different vantage points.

Fantastic. And so what about this one, The Second Mountain, David Brooks? Why should we read, read that one?

I think it's, um, it's foundational, I think, for anybody that wants to learn about transition. And I used it, I read it 3 or 4 times when I was going through my transition off active duty. Yes, it's, um, because he talks about that first mountain and how important what we think we are as individuals. And then the second mountain is, you know, hey, I've been doing this thing most of my life by myself, you know, how do I get more people involved in my life from a more collective standpoint? And he— there's a great chapter in there about, uh, community, um, So it's interesting.

Yeah. So silly question, is, is not related to Arthur Brooks, is it?

No, they're not.

Okay, okay, just, just silly question. Okay, love your enemies. Uh, Arthur again, what should we do with this one?

I, I, I, the, the one phrase that he focuses on— oh, it's, it's in the title, I forgot— uh, culture of contempt. And I just think it's vital that we, that we find a way to get away from that because we're we're so focused on, um, our agenda, our, you know, our message, um, that, you know, we're not listening to the other side. And, uh, and, and really, this may seem a little Pollyannish, but I, I, but I really don't think so, because I think it's, it's how, it's how the country is founded, you know. And we obviously had a lot of disagreement in how the country was founded with our founders, but But at the end of the day, we were able to come together to actually found the company.

Powerful.

I would definitely recommend anything by Arthur Brooks.

And you talked about The Soul of Civility.

Yeah. So, Alexandra Hudson wrote The Soul of Civility a couple of years ago. She has this great— it's called the— Civic Renaissance, uh, just encourages, you know, everybody to, um, learn that it's not just about being polite, uh, it's about, uh, you know, engaging people, uh, you know, where they are, respecting people's opinions, uh, and man, we need that more than ever before in this country, right? Agree. It's, you know, like we say a lot, I'm I'm going to agree to disagree with you. And at the end of the day, we just have to find a way to— it's not just a come together, peace thing. We just need to learn to come together and really disagree better. There's another quick plug. Spencer Cox is the governor of Utah, and he founded an organization He's a Republican, and the Democrat, um, I forget her name. But anyway, there's, um, uh, the whole idea of it is to learn how to disagree better.

Yes.

You know, we can have our disagreements, but, um, at the end of the day, if we come together, we're just going to be better for it.

Yes, I think he— I think he's the one who played a pretty critical role after Charlie Cox, uh, very much bringing our country together because we really need that. And the last one I have on, Save Your City.

Uh, Save Your City, again by Dan Kaelin. Um, you know, she's a, uh, she was a city manager from, um, from Canada, and then, you know, she saw how the toxicity was, uh, just kind of destroying some of these cities. And, um, so she's also a very big Stoic, uh, it. And, um, I, I think Stoicism can be a foundation for— yes, a lot of, a lot of people too, because, uh, well, they're just— there's just so many aspects to it that I think help you be a better person. Um, learning what you can control, um, you know, and just, you know, and if you're going through some type of adversity, some type of setback, uh, learning that, you know, you can't control everything and that obstacle. Ryan Holiday talks about, you know, the obstacle is the way.

Yeah.

But you have to learn to go through the obstacle and not avoid it.

So that's powerful. And one thing I really love about leadership is it really scales and it doesn't matter where you come from, Canada, the US, Africa, it doesn't matter your race, ethnicity, or any of that. Those principles, even different industry, they really work no matter where you are. Okay, we do need to finish the show. Soon. Uh, I do have two more questions before we do. Uh, if you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Wow. Um, I guess my final contribution, you know, I guess I would like to see, uh, good government work, you know, good, um I don't know what the scenario is, but I would like to be in a room where I see people coming together, people working towards a common goal and working towards some type of compromise. That would be great. That would be ideal for me.

Yeah, right now we need to see that for sure. If you had a magic wand, you could solve any problem, what is the one problem you'd like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

Well, it's been a recurring theme, I know, but I really think that until we find a way to learn to self-govern ourselves and then also govern properly, that, you know, everything else is kind of, um, superfluous in a way because, uh, we're going to be judged as a society on how we, um, you know, how we, uh, actually govern our institutions.

Yes.

And, and I know there's, you know, polarized ways to, to do that, but, um, uh, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the professor Francis Fukuyama. So he wrote a couple of books on, on good governance, political decay. And, and one of the phrases he has is the importance of getting to Denmark. And getting to Denmark is just a metaphor. It does not mean that, you know, Dean wants the US to be like Denmark. It's really just having, you know, a rule of law, having stable government.

Yes.

And having democratic institutions. So again, you know, put whatever example that you think represents that. But, but I think that is the foundation of, of, of who we are as a country.

Yes.

Or, you know, who we should be as a, as a local government, because, you know, we can't be who we want to be unless the institutions that we're a part of are good and that represent that, you know, getting to Denmark philosophy.

Wow, that's powerful. Yeah. Seeing good government work, that is so essential for all of society. Really, because we can't really do anything, achieve anything if the government itself is not working the way it's supposed to. Wow, thank you for sharing that. Okay, we are toward the end, so that's when I ask, what can we do to add value back to you, Dean? What can the audience do? Thanks so much for spending time with us today.

No, I appreciate the opportunity. You know, I think the main thing is probably just— I may sound like a broken record here, but I think what Everybody in the audience can do is practice good governance, practice good self-governance, be good humans. That would make me very happy.

Stability.

Because then I would know that everybody out there that is listening to BZ right now, his audience wants, you know, wants, wants, Wants good self-governance, wants good governance. Um, and there's really nothing for me other than, you know, maybe we can chat on LinkedIn and, uh, and, and have, you know, have, have good conversations. I'm all about, you know, connection and collaboration. Uh, somebody, uh, a friend of mine told me a couple months ago that collaboration was my superpower. So, um, and it's beyond LinkedIn. I just think it's important that we as a country, as a people, need to connect to one another. Um, you know, the whole COVID thing was very frustrating because, uh, I, I don't do remote well. Um, yes, rather be, you know, I wish you and I were in the same room together.

Yes.

Oh, chatting, having a good conversation.

Wow, thank you so much for, for sharing, sharing that. So, uh, we do need to to end this podcast, but before I do, uh, is there a question I should have asked you I didn't get to ask?

About me and my background?

Uh, just for this conversation, anything else you wanted to share with the audience we didn't get a chance to address?

No, I think I hit it all.

Uh, yeah, yeah, it's been super engaging.

You know, I just think that opportunities like this are important that you get people to have the conversation about self-awareness, self-governance, just so we can strive to be better, you know, be better people. And, you know, this conversation wasn't just about leadership. It was about, you know, how to connect, how to relate, how to be, you know, how to self-govern, how to be better people.

Wow, thanks so much. So I think one of the most important questions before we end the show is, uh, if you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self, standing at the edge of this great career you've had in the Army and also city governance, what would you say to 17-year-old Dean?

I would tell 17-year-old Dean to, um, know that you belong at the table. It's funny because my favorite quote is Teddy Roosevelt's "In the Arena" quote. And I can't recite it like Brené Brown does, but yeah, I think it's important to reiterate to myself to believe in yourself and that you do belong at the table. And I keep going back to that video that I recently saw with President Obama. And yes, they are— they're just folk, you know, they're just people. You need to understand that, that your contribution matters.

Yes, that definitely builds confidence. And I'd like to finish with something optimistic. What is something you are feeling optimistic about?

I am really feeling optimistic about my personal journey. That just around the corner, because it's been, you know, a long transition since I left the city, had some health setbacks, but I personally know that, you know, just around the corner is a great opportunity.

Wow. Well, we are there with you. Anything we can do to help in any way, please let us know. But it's really a great honor to be speaking to you today, Lieutenant Colonel Dean Eward. I guess Final question I ask all of my guests, one word that represents our shared experience in this podcast today. That's the end.

I would say connection.

Connection. Well, I am so grateful. Thank you so much, Lieutenant Colonel Dean Ewald, US Army retired. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

Thanks, Bizzy. Appreciate you.

Well, everybody, this is one of the longest podcasts we've had. I'm so grateful for the time Lieutenant Colonel had to speak with us today, but I think what he's talking about is very, very important. Not just about leadership, not just about success, but the way we treat one another. Civility. The way we collaborate. Humility. And I think, uh, that's really what makes us American, I think, right? That is what— that's who we are as a country, and that's who we are as a projection to the world. He mentioned President Ronald Reagan. Again, doesn't matter if you are liberal, Republican, or whatever, but Ronald Reagan had this mastery of words and images. He talked about the city on the hill. I was a little boy in Africa, Pointe-Noire, Republic of the Congo, but I saw America as the city on the hill, and one day I wanted to become American too. Now that dream for me became true, but that's really who we are, right? We are not a country like some of the other imperialistic countries. We go, we plunder, and we kill people, and we do all kinds of crazy stuff. Like even during World War II, right? I went to France last time, it was about 2 and a half years ago. If you go to Paris, you have to go to the American Cemetery. You absolutely have to. You are going to see the graves of our young men and women, courageous people who died for an idea, not even for their own country, but to save Europe. And when we saved Europe, we didn't go to Europe and say, okay, now we want all of your wealth and all of your riches. You guys belong to us. We are going to be your master. No, no, no. We said, just give us a little bit of land, we just want to bury our dead, that's all we want. So that's who America is, and that's why I am in the US Navy, and that's why I'm willing to give my life for this country. So we need to go back to that. We are American, we are not mercenaries, we are American, we have values, right? And that's who we are. But anyway, I'm, I'm gonna stop speaking now, but hopefully this has, um, enlightened you and inspired you, and hopefully you're gonna be the best version of yourself. I hope in some small ways, that's what we are inspiring you to do. So like I said earlier, tomorrow I will have the great pleasure of interviewing, let me see if I have the image here. Oh, sorry, I don't see it. Okay, yeah, here it is. Okay, I'm going to be interviewing a chaplain tomorrow, Chaplain Colonel Shabazz. He has a PhD and a doctorate of Ministry. He's going to be here tomorrow. I definitely want to have that conversation, uh, with him. And then the day after tomorrow, I will be interviewing Chief Duane Art, U.S. Navy retired, cybersecurity leader, tech visionary, and keynote speaker. So for those who don't know, in the Navy, a chief is an E-7, so senior enlisted. And senior enlisted folks have been mentoring me since I was a seaman recruit, from the time I was an E-1 all the way to the time I became an as a junior officer in the Navy. So when I became a commander, even a commanding officer, I'm like, I've been mentored by chiefs all of my career, we're not gonna stop now. So even today, chiefs mentor me because they truly, truly run the Navy. No, you can get rid of all of the senior officers, all of the admirals, I think this Navy will still be powerful and the force for good because of the chief, because of the anchor. So hopefully you are going to be here, and also, uh, later today I will continue my special series on Ancient Wisdom Mentoring from the Book of Proverbs. Again, this is not a religious podcast, but we're looking at the Book of Proverbs, really seeking for wisdom and leadership lesson. So today, the 20th, we're gonna do chapter 20. Tomorrow we're gonna do chapter 21, and at the end of the month, we're gonna read all 31 chapters of the Book of Proverbs. I hope you can join me for that too. All right, until later today and For those who are going to join me tomorrow, this is Coach Bizzy. Thank you so much for watching this wonderful episode and insightful episode from the Leadership and Success Podcast. Again, thanks a million to our master teacher today, Lieutenant Colonel Dean Ewart, US Army retired. Thanks again and see you later today and for some of you tomorrow. Bye for now.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold Leaders Shaping the 21st Century. Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.