S5:E43🎙️ LIVE with Hall of Fame international keynote speaker & #1 bestselling author Bob Burg

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach Dee Zee.

Shifting one's focus from getting to giving is not only a nice way to live life, but a financially profitable way as well. Some people might ask, "But isn't that kind of naive? Isn't it naive? Isn't it a bit unrealistic to believe that in today's day of self-absorption, corporate scandals, and dog-eat-dog competition, that one can actually give their way to success?" So ladies and gentlemen, it is my honor to ask you to join us in welcoming Bob Burg. We need to be able to deal with people in a way that's constructive, in a way that's helpful. Key is the focus. You can't be focused on the money. You must be focused on bringing value because that's what turns into money. Meet Joe, an ambitious young man who yearns for success.

Sound familiar?

Maybe you know someone like Joe. He's aggressive, relatively successful, and determined to reach the top. A real go-getter. But something is missing. Something that has caused him to be not nearly as financially successful and internally fulfilled as he knows he could be. One day, Joe is fortunate to be introduced to a man named Pindar, known by some of the most highly successful people in the world simply as The Chairman. Over the next week, Joe meets some of Pindar's former protégés who are extremely financially and personally successful. With Joe, they share the 5 Laws of Stratospheric Success. They explain to Joe that if used together, these somewhat counterintuitive 5 laws will lead him to huge success as it did for them. It only makes sense because these are the same laws people have used in order to be successful Alright, the 5 Laws of Stratospheric Success.

If you want to learn about them, we're going to be talking about it today. Alright, I am really overjoyed to really have a legend on the Leadership and Success Podcast right now. All of them are keynote speakers and number one best-selling authors. And before we do, before I bring him on, I am reminded of our moment of gratitude. That's something we do on this podcast. Every single time we meet, and part of the reason why we do this, as you know, is because in the military, it's about 21 service members and veterans commit suicide every single day. And I believe it's not possible to be suicidal and be grateful at the very same time. So as you guys know, every single day this month, I've been grateful for Black History Month. So I highly recommend this book, African American First by Joan Porter. It's about famous, little-known, and unsung triumphs of Blacks in America. I am really grateful for the contribution of African American because I really believe they've built this country and African American history is American history. So let me see if I can properly introduce our guest today. And hello to Daniel Young from Midland, Florida, an active member of our tribe here on the Leadership and Success Podcast. So Today, I am going to be speaking to the one and only Bob Burg. I really love his first name. It's really cool. So he is an Hall of Fame keynote speaker, master communicator, and co-author of one of the most influential business parables of our time, The Go-Giver, which has sold over a million copies worldwide. It looks like it's almost like 2 million copies by now. But anyway, for more than 30 years, Bob Burg has taught leaders, entrepreneurs, and sales professionals how to shift from getting to giving, and how genuine influence, not manipulation, is the true driver of sustainable success. So if leadership is influence, and everybody here knows that because, uh, we've been studying under Dr. John C. Maxwell, the 21 Laws of Leadership, then today's conversation will show you how to become not just successful, but stratospherically successful. We're gonna be learning about those 5 laws of success and influence. So ladies and gentlemen, without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success podcast, Bob Bird.

Wow.

Good morning, Bob. How you doing this morning?

Good morning, Commander. And I'll tell you, what a wonderful introduction. And kudos to your production team because the opening of your show, what a fantastic job.

Thank you. You could think myself and AI, but I do appreciate that. Yeah, I tried to get my daughter to help me with this, but she's like, she wants to get paid. I'm like, no, no, you don't get paid, you volunteer, become an intern, you get experience. Yeah, Gen Z is something else. So to get started, is there, uh, something you are grateful for today, sir?

Hmm, very much so. Uh, well, first, uh, just grateful for having wonderful parents. Uh, I think that's probably the biggest blessing in life. Yes, uh, to be raised by fantastic people who love each other. And, um, you know, at the time my, my dad passed, uh, they had been married 65 years, I believe.

Yeah.

Um, and a wonderful couple. And there was always that feeling that, you know, that security and knowing that they loved each other, they loved their children, brought us up, you know. So that's the first thing. Also, you know, the people I work with, people like my long-term business partner, Kathy Tejanel. People like Kim Angeli. Oh, I see David Marlowe. His book, his book, The Icky Guy Way. Wow. What a fantastic book that is. Classic. Everybody should read that, that book. People like Jeff West, Kim Angeli, people I do business with. John David Mann. My co-author of the Go-Giver series, who has authored and co-authored about 50 books. A genius. And he's the guy who made this whole Go-Giver series hum. And without him, there would not be any Go-Giver series. So there's so much in my life. And then, you know, people like yourself and General Beagle and just, you know, people I get to meet on an ongoing everyday basis. They say, hi, you know, wow. Arlen Thoranson, a picture of him right there. You found that picture. Arlen, I call him one of my real-life action Heroes.

Yes.

And he's a guy who, you know, just put together an amazing leadership organization embracing technology, leadership, and humanity. And so, yeah, there's a— I have so much to be grateful for. I could go on and on and on and on. So I won't. But boy.

Well, I guess I must say, Alan, you've been voluntold to come on the Leadership and Success podcast. Hopefully we're going to see you on that seat soon.

Wow.

Well, I can't believe you said your parents were married 65 years. Yes. That is so rare these days. I've been married 24 years now. It's going to be 25 years this year. But what do you think is the secret of your parents' marriage?

Well, you know, in The Go-Giver, John and I told a story. And what we did in that book, even though it's a parable, a lot of the stories we told in there— oh, there's my dear friend Amy Silva. She's a magnificent real estate investor, great leader. Oh, Rhonda Williams. Okay. If I say hi to everyone, we won't get anywhere. So, but hi to everybody who's—

You must know I'm so excited to do this because I first started this podcast 5 years ago and it was me, myself, and I. Nobody listened to me. I was talking to myself. So once I get feedback from the people, not just in America, but around the world, I'm just so excited to show off what they're saying. But sorry, back to you, Bob.

So a lot of the book, John and I, included experiences that both of the co-authors had in our lives. So there's one scene where Joe, the protégé, is speaking with his mentor Pindar, and they're talking about, you know, Pindar's happy marriage. He'd been married 50 years, and Joe asked him the secret, and he said, well, you know, Joe, I actually care more about my wife's happiness than I do about my own. Now, We, we had Joe say, well, isn't that, um, codependent? Because we knew people would, you know, say that. Uh, and, and Pender said, well, actually, you know what I call it? And Joe says, happy. Well, what happened was that— and so, so where we got this— when I was about 10 years old, a lot of my, um, friends' parents were starting to get divorced. And my parents had this great marriage and, you know, the whole thing. And, uh, like anything else, I mean, it's not that there weren't challenges. Of course it's a marriage. But had a wonderful marriage. And so I said to Dad, Dad, why is it that, you know, my friend's parents are getting divorced and you and Mom are so happy? And he said, well, you know, Bob, when you really, really love someone, you actually care more about their happiness than you do your own. Now, he was not saying this, and I want to make sure because in today's day of— he was not saying you should be, uh, you know, he was not talking about an abusive relationship. He was not about a thing where a codependent really— and that's why we put that in the book.

Yes. Yes.

No, he was talking about two people who generally genuinely love and care for each other. Now, one thing my mom always said was that not only did they love each other, but they liked each other.

Yes.

And that was important. So I guess if there were two things that, that, you know, that would be it. And Now, interestingly enough, I have never been married. And so, and my mom always drove her crazy. She said, well, Bob, I, you know, if you, if you've seen how wonderful a marriage can be, why would you not? You know, who knows? I've had some wonderful relationships with fantastic women, but just never got married. John David Mann and his wife Anna have a wonderful marriage, and they actually wrote a fifth book in the series together called The Go-Giver Marriage. They took the basic principles and they wrote the book together. And but, but yeah, so I mean, so that's where we got that, that part in the story. And that's what I always noticed about my mom and dad. They always looked for the, for the benefit of the other person. But again, you're talking about two people who are both focused on, on who both hold high value, making the other person happy. So what happens just like with the Go-Giver, right?

Yeah.

And focused on giving value. And if you're, if if you're doing business with and relationships with other people doing things the same way, 1 1 5.

Right? Because I was just about to say that's really the essence of the Go Giver series. So, it's really powerful how it could apply to every area of your life. So, thinking about kind of like reframing of leadership and influence. So, my primary mentor, Dr. John Maxwell, I call him Papa John. It says, "Leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less." Now, you have agreed with that fact. But how do you define influence? And what makes it genuine?

Yeah, and I think it's really important to define influence because it's one of those words that's used so often now, right? And like any word and any important concept, it can be defined different ways by different people, usually unconsciously. So you can have 10 people talking about the word influence, and you might have 10 people thinking of it from a different premise. So influence, by definition, Commander, is simply the ability to move a person or persons to a desired action, usually within the context of a specific goal. Now, that's its definition. But that's not its, its, as John would say, John David Mann would say, it's not its substance. Right? It's not its essence. The essence of influence is pull. Pull as opposed to push, as in the old leadership saying, how far can you push a rope? And we know the answer is not very far, at least not very fast or very effectively, which is why great influencers, they don't push. They don't push themselves. They don't push their will. They don't push their ideas on others. You know, you never hear people say, wow, that David or that Mary, she is so influential. She has a lot of push.

Yes.

No, she's Influential. She has a lot of pull with people. That's what influence is. Now, the, you know, so then, then, you know, you've got to ask the question, well, how does that happen? How does that, that pull manifest itself? And again, it's just like with the Go-Giver, you know, the, the, it's, it's shifting your focus off of yourself and onto the other person, not in a self-sacrificial way, not at all., but in a way that builds everyone in the process. Right. So, so it's, it's, it's that the influencer and we would say the genuine influencer, right? Yes. Making sure that while they're internally motivated, they are outwardly focused. So they ask themselves questions such as, how does what I want this other person to do, how does it align with their goals?

Yes.

With their needs, their wants, their desires, their values.

Is that then the difference between influence and manipulation?

Well, well, I would say this. There's two ways to influence, two basic ways. If influence is the ability to move a person to action, right, you influence either through persuasion, which is good, or manipulation, which is bad. OK, now what is really the difference between the two? And I think this question was answered beautifully by a gentleman named Dr. Paul W. Swetz, who wrote a book that came out in 1987. Called The Art of Talking So That People Will Listen. That was much more about listening than it was about talking. But that was just, that was the title. And in this, he said, and I'm going to paraphrase if I may, he wrote, manipulation aims at control, not cooperation. It does not consider the good of the other party. It results in a win-lose situation. In contrast to the manipulator, the persuader always seeks to enhance the position of the other party, right? So, you know, and I think we could say that a manipulator might not necessarily want to harm another person, but if that's what it takes to get their way, they will do it. With a persuader, with a genuine influencer, that could never happen. Because for a genuine influencer, a persuader, to, to feel good about themselves, they've got to know that not only did they help that other person, but that person feels good about the situation itself. And that's why when we say, you know, when John and I say genuine influence, we're taking influence to a kind of another level. With genuine influence, we're saying this is the person who, you know, can— they get the results they desire when dealing with, when working with others while making that other person feel genuinely good. About themselves, about the situation, and about you.

That is really a key, key difference. And everybody listening, especially my own junior officer, I think that is extremely important because I feel like sometimes people, especially in the military environment, I know very well, you also focus on the mission sometimes that sometimes you take people for granted and you can even sometimes, I think, without realizing it, kind of cross the line where you don't just influence them, but you actually manipulate them into doing what I guess they should be doing, even for the good of the organization. But I think as a leader, you just have to be aware.

Yeah. Well, and we know that with— and even if we want to say, you know, push is manipulation, it's also compliance.

Yes.

You know, and, and we know, and even though— and when I say the military, please understand, I have never served in the military. And so I am in no position to speak about what the military is or not. My dad served in World War II. My grandparents both served in World War I. I never did, so I'm not speaking from someone who knows, okay? But from what I understand, the military is by kind of by nature a command and control type of situation. And yet we all know, and the best officers know, and I remember, oh, Jocko Willink and Leif Babin in Extreme Ownership talked about, you know, to the degree that you don't make it command and control, but instead you involve people in the process, and they have ownership in that process, you know, whether we're talking about a military mission or a corporate mission, there's a lot better chance that they're going to be bought, that they're going to buy in. And John Maxwell, of course, Dr. Maxwell talks a lot about buying in. You know, one of my great friends, she's a wonderful leadership authority. Her name is Dandi Scumaci. And she has said something I think is so profound. She said, when it comes to leadership, when it comes to influence, Compliance, she says, will never take you where commitment can go.

Hmm. Say that again, please. That's powerful.

Compliance will never take you where commitment can go. Wow.

That is powerful. I guess, back to the first question I asked about marriage, the marriage of your parents, 65 years. I guess the commitment for my wife and I is, if she ever decides to leave me, I'm going to leave me with her. So I am committed to her that much. But it's quite powerful. So, but let me ask you just first question out of the box. Go-giver, go-giver. Okay. All of that is nice and it sounds great, but I think some people hearing you right now, they could say, "Okay, does that mean being passive or overly generous?" What does being a go-giver actually mean and what does it not mean?

Yeah. That's such a great question. It's very important too that we all, that we understand the difference between the two. Because, you know, some people say, well, does being a go-giver mean you're going to be energized? First of all, what being a go-giver simply means is understanding that shifting your focus off of yourself and onto others, OK, is again, as you know, not only a more fulfilling way of conducting business, it is the most financially profitable way as well. Not for any kind of woo-woo, way out there, magical, mystical type of reasons. Oh, just give and good things— no, no, no. It's much more logical, much more rational than that. When you're that person who can take your focus off of yourself and focus on serving others.

Yes.

Again, discovering their needs, their wants, their— they're helping them solve their challenges, helping move them closer to happiness. People feel good about— they feel great about you. They want to be in relationship with you. They want to do business with you. They want to tell the world about you. They want to be your personal walking ambassador. And so, yes. So there's nothing about being a go-giver that is in any way congruent with being taken advantage of.

Yes.

Right. It simply means you understand. Now, as far as being passive, there's nothing passive about being a go-giver. As you recall, Pindar, the main mentor, the one condition for leadership with Joe was what? He had to go out and apply the information. And that's why John and I say that, you know, The opposite of a go-giver is not a go-getter. We love go-getters because go-getters take action. Yes. Right. You know, you know, you can have all the, you can have the best ideas, nicest, greatest of intent. But unless action's put into the mix, nothing's going to happen. Right. It simply cannot. So we say, you know, be a go-getter, person of action, and, excuse me, a go-giver. A person who's totally, absolutely laser-focused on others. Just don't be a go-taker.

Yes. That is so powerful. Because I really love the emphasis on action because many times, even principle I teach about very, very simple about leadership and most people have at least heard them before, either at home, at school, or from a mentor. And they're like, oh, I already know that. You don't have to teach me. I already know that. But the thing is, They don't really know it because they're not doing it, right? They don't, they're not taking the action necessary to show that they actually know. Maybe they know it as an idea, as a theory in their head, but they don't actually put it into practice. Doesn't execution really make all the difference to becoming a go-giver?

Oh yeah, it's, yeah, without it, it's just not going to happen. It's, it's, it's good, it's good thinking, but thinking in and of itself, no, that to, to believe that you can just understand something in theory but not put it into action and that something's going to result, uh, that's magical thinking. And we're big believers in reality. Yes, reality-based thinking.

Let's go back to the book that started it all, the classic The Go-Giver. Like I told you, uh, in the green room, this is one of the few books that have been, uh, uh, really recommended by my guests over and over and over again. So, it's in my shortlist, about 100 books of the most recommended books on this podcast as of last year. A little story about a powerful business idea. Why did this book have to be written by you and John David Mann? Why did you have to write this book?

Yeah, I think we both felt, and John was a very successful entrepreneur, I was more of just a really good— well, I don't want to say good, but I learned sales and did well in it, you know, and so forth. And then sales management. And by the way, when I went from salesperson to sales manager, which I like to call sales leader, I was not a good sales leader. I was a good salesperson. I was a good producer, was not a leader. And what's interesting is I was really having trouble in the leadership journey. And I was dating a woman at the time.. And her mom bought me a book and gave it to me. And it happened to be The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by John Maxwell. That was my first. And then I started getting all his books. And I started at the time— this is years ago— he had a tape series called Maximum Impact. It was cassette tapes. And I was a member of that club. And I got a tape every month and so forth. So, You know, I certainly owe a lot in the leadership journey to Dr. Maxwell, as so many of us do. But, you know, so, so John and I studied success, you know, in our different paths. And, and as a, as a writer, he got to speak to some of the most successful people in the world and ask, you know, them. And I got to speak on stage for the last 35 years with some of the most successful people. And I'm always asking questions, voracious reader, but, you know, both of us. So when we got together on this, we kind of said, what are those? What are the laws? What are the principles that successful people— and yeah, financially successful, that was, that was a big part of it. But, but also financially, you know, there's lots of ways to be successful and they should all, you know, work together harmoniously— financial, spiritual, mental, emotional, social, relationship, what have you.

Right. Yes.

What is it? That the people who were sustainably successful, not fly-by-nights, you know, not what, but sustain— what is it that they did? And as we went through this, you know, John always jokes and says the laws wrote themselves. Right. And so, but these are the 5, these 5 laws are what ever since there have been market economies.

Okay.

These are the laws and principles that those people have followed. Now, they didn't always know they were following them. Some people did it very intuitively. Okay, but these 5 laws, if any one of them are taken away, a person simply cannot be successful. But none of this is original with John and me. And in fact, when the, when the book first was published and it got off to a really good start, and so we were on all these shows and we'd be asked, so what is it about this book that's so different? You know, what's, what is it that's new in this book? And we'd always say nothing. You know, I mean, John's brilliant writing, you know, made it a great story. But, you know, when we named the law, the principles, but really it's just, it was just explaining something. And I think what it did, Commander, is it gave people, it gave readers permission to be themselves. Most people, not all, but most people want to feel like they're making a contribution to life.

Yes.

Now, most of us do this through our work. Okay, now that doesn't mean we can't contribute other ways, but you can be— most people, right? We, we spend a lot of time at work, and so that's how most people add value to the world in their own way. And most people want to feel as though their work is making a difference in the lives of others.

Yes.

Well, but what does sometimes, you know, corporate leadership say? They give them a different, you know, the focus is going to be just on the on the bottom line, on the money. Now, that's not important, don't get me wrong. The money is very important, but you're not going to make as much money when you're focused on the money. And here's why, okay? And I used to say this when I spoke at conferences all the time. I'm 68 now. I don't travel anymore. I still do virtual keynotes, but I don't get on planes anymore. But I used to all the time. And so I'd be in a room full of top salespeople, right? And one of the first things I'd say is nobody's gonna buy from you because you have a quota to meet.

Yes, right.

They're not gonna buy from you because you have a sales goal. They're not going to buy from you because you need the money. And they're not going to buy from you just because you're a really nice human being. They're going to buy from you because they believe that they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so.

Yes, right.

And, you know, John coined a, uh, what I think is a magnificent term. We put it in Go Giver Sell More, but John is the guy who came up with this, and that is money is simply an echo of value.

An echo of value. Wow.

Values lightning. But which means the focus must be on the value.

Yes.

The money you receive is simply a natural result of the value you provided. So, so I think the Go Giver kind of gave people people permission to be themselves and say, not, not only can I make, you know, a lot of money, but I'm going to make a lot of money because I'm focused on providing a lot of value.

Yes. Being a good giver. Can you walk us briefly through the 5 Laws of Stratospheric Success?

Yeah. So the laws themselves are the laws of value, compensation, influence, authenticity, and receptivity. The law of value says your true worth is determined by how much more you give in value than you take in payment. Now, that sounds counterintuitive. Give more in value than I take in payment? Sounds like a recipe for bankruptcy. No, we have to just realize the difference between price and value. Price is a dollar figure. Value, on the other hand, is the relative worth or desirability of a thing, a thing to the end user or beholder, right? What is it about this thing, this product, service, concept, idea that brings so much worth or value that someone will willingly exchange their money for it? And be glad they did while you make a very healthy profit. It would be the person who hired— it would be you hire an accountant to do your taxes. She charges you a round figure, $1,000, right? That's her fee or her price. But what value does she give you in exchange? Well, she saves you $5,000 on your taxes. She saves you countless hours of time freeing you up to be more productive. And she, she provides you and your family with the security and peace of mind of knowing it was done correctly. She gave you you well over $5,000 in value in exchange for a $1,000 fee or price. She gave you more in value than she took in payment. So you come away feeling great. But here's the thing, she also made a very healthy profit.

Yes, yes.

Worth it to her to exchange her time, her energy, her knowledge for this. So, you know, in fact, in any free market-based exchange— and when I say free market, I simply mean no one's forced to do business with anyone else, right? In a free market-based exchange, there should always be two profits: the buyer profits and the seller profits, because each of them come away better off afterwards than they were beforehand.

It's a win-win. Powerful. I think I learned that from Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich, right? You always have to give more in value than you receive.

Yeah. And you know who—

yes.

And you know who else talked about that? There was a magnificent book published in 1910 by Wallace D. Wattles called The Science of Getting Rich.

Yeah, I've read that one too. Yeah, yeah.

He talks about that. And I think, and, you know, excuse me, I think in any book where, where business is taught and it's taught the right way, there's always that focus on providing more in value.

Wow. Well, I must tell you, Bob, I could be talking to you for hours and hours. So we are technically already out of time. So give me just 5 more minutes. I wanted to talk about—

Commander, you take as long as you want.

Thank you, thank you. Let's finish with this. I think the Go-Giver Influencer, this one is very, very special to me. A little story about the most persuasive idea, especially because of the times we live in now, even now in the United States. One of the most important questions I think I would ask you today is, you said that the problem today isn't disagreement, and I believe our country is is absolutely divided right now. 9/11 is part of the reason why I joined the US Navy. 9/11 was bad for people of my generation, but 9/12 was one of the best days I've ever lived as a resident of the United States of America. I don't think our country could have been more united. But you said it's not that we can't disagree agreeably or persuasively, right? So what is going wrong in modern leadership communication? How can we fix that?

Yeah, well, so I, and I think what it really is and whether you're talking about, you know, political parties, whether you're talking about whatever it is, it used to be that, you know, it used to be that it was like, I'm right, you're wrong. Now, that's not a good way to approach things, but it's doable because if you feel you're right and the other's wrong, you're going to engage them because you want them to be right. Debate. It's moved from I'm right, you're wrong to I'm right, you're evil. That's a problem because if you believe the other side is evil, what, you're not going to even bother. Yes, that you don't want to listen to them, you don't want to engage them, you don't want to do anything with them, you don't want to touch them. They're, they're incorrigible, they're evil, right? And so we've got to get back to a place, I believe, in our country where we see that most people, and not all, and there's evil out there, okay, but I'm saying, but most people regardless of what politics they have, generally want to see the country go well, and they want to be able to thrive, and they want it right. But they have different ways of going about it. That's okay. Yes, that's where persuasion comes— that's where influence and persuasion comes in, and we need to be able to do that. But first, you've got to be able to engage another person, and you've got to be able to communicate respect to them and be able to listen to them. And understand their point of view. Doesn't mean you agree with it. Understanding a point of view is not the same as agreeing with it. But you've got to be able to understand them. Otherwise, you're going probably from a false premise, trying it, right? And so I think it's the same even when we talk about any kind of leadership. You know, we've got to look at the people we're leading as people we are hoping to build. You know, and John, John Maxwell, Dr. Maxwell talks about that. He talks about, you know, great leaders develop other leaders.

Yes, yes.

Right. Uh, in, um, in, um, oh, what is that great book? Uh, uh, Jim Collins, Good to Great.

Yes.

Between level 4 leaders and level 5 leaders, the talent is basically the same, but with level 4 leaders, it's about me. With level 5 leaders, it's about you.

Yes.

Right. There's a big, a big difference. And so, yeah, I think that's where we really— and that's why I think in the Go-Giver Influencer, what we talk about there are people skills.

Yes.

And especially in today's day of AI.

Yeah.

The whole thing. Okay. What's the big differentiator?

We are losing our humanity. It seems like.

Exactly. Who can, you know, who can— now it's the big differentiator is who can relate to people, who can connect with people on an emotional level. And that's, you know, and that's why I think It's a topic that's so important, so dear to my heart.

Yes.

And yeah.

Well, thank you for writing that book because it definitely needed to be written, especially for this day and age. So, to finish with this, can you maybe walk us through the 5 secrets of genuine influence? I believe you talk about master your emotion.

Yeah. It starts there, right? We've got to— the sages said, "Who is mighty?" And the answer, "That person who can control their own emotions." Can you tell us about the seatbelt principle? Yeah, well, you know, it's, it's, it's so hard sometimes to master our emotions, right? And we're not— even though we know that the person who can do that is really 9 steps ahead of the game in a 10-step game. And yet it can be so difficult. And we find ourselves saying and doing things that are so counterproductive. Why? Because we're human beings, right? And as human beings, we are emotional creatures. Now, We're not saying you should forego your emotions or lose your emotions. Emotions are a beautiful part of life. But, but no, we need to make sure we're the master of our emotions as opposed to our emotions being the master of us. Let me go back to something that my dear friend Dandi Scumaci says. I brought her up earlier, right? And Dandi says, by all means, take your emotions along for the ride. Make sure you are driving the car. The key.

That's powerful. Simple but powerful. Yeah.

Wow.

And then it's under— then it's, you know, step into the other person's shoes or what we like to say, understand the clash of belief systems.

Yes.

This is recognizing we all come from our own set of beliefs, unconscious beliefs. You know, we're run by an unconscious operating system that was basically handed to us before we were old enough to be able to. Right. And so when we realize that this other person maybe sees the world a lot differently than we do, Now we know that what we have to do is ask questions.

What did you mean then by listening with the back of your neck?

That's another term that John came up with. And it's when you listen, you listen so intently. And I don't mean on a physical thing. No, I don't mean like that. But you're really listening so intently that you're listening with every part of your body, right? Including the back of your neck. I mean, that's how, you know, and that's really what allows us to be able to to understand a different people and approach from there.

Wow, that is quite powerful. And then you talk about empathy, right?

Oh, so, so important. You know, this is, this is really such a biggie because empathy, and we say, you know, tact and empathy. And, you know, my dad always defined tact as the language of strength. And sometimes, wow, does it take strength to be tactful when you really want to just let this person have it. But also it's the language of strength because it is so powerful.

Powerful.

Tact is really the ability to communicate an idea that someone normally would not be open to, but do so in such a way that not only are they not defensive toward you and resistant to your idea, but they're open to you and they're more accepting of your idea. Now, its cousin, empathy— empathy can be defined as the identification with or vicarious experiencing of another person's feelings. The challenge is we don't necessarily know how they feel. We're not them. The good news is that in order to communicate empathy, you don't necessarily have to understand exactly how they feel. You simply need to understand they're feeling something. And that this something is distressful to them, and that you are there to help them work through it. Wow.

And then the last secret of the Go-Giver Influencer is set the frame. What's that one last?

Yeah, so there's a couple. There's set the frame, which is— and basically a frame is simply the foundation from which everything else evolves. So when you set the proper frame, you're really 90% of the way to the result, you know, you want. So you've always got to understand that in any interaction, a frame will be set. The question is, is the other person setting it or are you setting it? Now, if the other person sets it, and they're probably setting it unconsciously because most people don't know about the concept, right? Then you don't really know, is this something that's going to be in everyone's benefit or just theirs? If you're setting the frame or resetting an already negatively set frame, then you can make it a win for everyone involved.

So many wisdom nuggets. Thank you. Thank you so much. I encourage everybody to get all 4 books, please. Could literally change your life. So we are definitely way, way out of, out of time. But before we We, and I wanted to ask you two quick questions. One is, what do you believe is the greatest lesson you have ever learned just in life, in leadership in general?

You know, I think it's observing how my dad was with others. And that is to do your best to make others feel genuinely good about themselves.

If that's not the secret of leadership, I don't know what is. Wow, powerful. And why do you believe you've been so successful? I mean, a wider keynote speaker. I mean, it's like, wow, what's the secret of your success, you think?

Well, of course, I've had a lot of failures too. So that's, you know, or as Dr. Maxwell would say, I failed forward. But, you know, I think it's once I got to a certain point where I was ready to learn, I was not teachable. I was not coachable when I was younger. And that was a real character flaw on my part. Okay, but once— and I'd say it was when I was about 25, 26— I became more coachable. That's when I started realizing that I didn't know half of what I thought I knew. And that is Mark Twain's— attributed to Mark Twain, I don't know if he ever said this, but to paraphrase him, most of the things I was absolutely positively certain I did know weren't so. Yes, it was at that point that I became a student.

Wow. All right. I know we are out of time, but I really do appreciate you so much. What can we do to add value back to you, sir? Thanks so much for giving us your time today.

Oh, my pleasure. I mean, I— you've added great value to me just by having me on your show and my having the opportunity to be able to speak with you and to everybody who's listened in. Anyone who'd like to visit my website, Berg b-u-r-g.com, is welcome to do so. And they can subscribe to my, um, uh, uh, Daily Impact, um, post on Substack. And, you know, that's pretty much it. Um, I thank you for having me. This has been a delightful conversation.

No, this, this has been, uh, so great. I always like to end on a positive note. Uh, what are you feeling optimistic about these days?

What am I feeling optimistic about? Gosh, I, you know, it's, it's hard for me not to be optimistic because it's kind of in my nature now. And by the way, that it wasn't growing, growing, you know, growing up and living, I'd say, till I was about 35 years old, I was not really an optimistic person. OK, despite, you know, things that I really should have been optimistic about, I wasn't. This is something I trained myself to be. And I, what I call Berg 2.0, 35 years old, I went into a full, you know, so I tend to be very optimistic. So, you know, I figure that what we put our mind to doing, and again, with partners I have in my business, like Kathy and Kim, and, you know, Jeff and John and all the different people, great people like Arlen, who you just, you know, I'm optimistic.

Fantastic. All right. Before I ask you the very last question, is there anything I should have asked you our time together that I didn't get a chance to ask?

Not at all. Not at all.

You're a wonderful host. Thank you. And very last question. Just one word that would express our time together on this podcast. Which one word comes to mind?

Gratitude.

Gratitude. Well, I am so, so grateful for your time. The one and only Bob Burke, everyone. Thank you, sir. I really appreciate it. All right. Thank you, everyone. So that was— we spent about 40 minutes with the one and only, the great Bob Burke. Again, please get a copy of his book, especially the classic, the original, The Go-Giver, if you can only get one. But really, you should get a copy of all of those. And what I really love about this is it helps you not just be good at sales or your business, but as an individual, even as a husband, and I think as a father, just as a human being. So I am so, so grateful for the time we had together. So in about 15 minutes, I'm going to be back and I'm going to be interviewing my friend, the one and only MK Palmer. He's a US Marine veteran and FBI veteran as well, and now is a cybersecurity strategist and executive here in the Bay Area, principal strategist, advisor, and the leader. We're gonna be talking about leadership under consequence. It's Experience Now: Lessons from the FBI to the Boardroom. So that's gonna be in about 15 minutes or so. And again, Follow Bob Burg on LinkedIn and get a copy of his book. And thank you again for watching. Until about 15 minutes, if you are, you're great. But if you are not, have a wonderful day. And I'm gonna be back here again tomorrow. Bye for now.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time. Stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.