S5:E52🎙️ LIVE with Gaëlle Koanda

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

Hello, this is Gaelle Cordell reporting live from Denver, Colorado with some She Lead Tech updates. We have so much coming up soon. First of all, we have a 2-day CDS boot camp happening on September 6th and 7th, 2 days designed to help more women get certified and step confidently into risk and leadership roles. We are also taking a group of women to a Women in Technology event event. If you know me, you know that my network is my net worth, because visibility and access change everything. We'll be also taking women to some other networking events. And none of this, none of it, will be possible without our incredible sponsor Advance360. Advance360 is not just a supporter, they are a true partner in this mission. From day one, They backed my vision of getting more women into cybersecurity leadership and certification. They invest in people. They believe in representation. Yes, representation does matter. And they have helped us make real lasting impact. So thank you so much, Advent360, for standing by beside us as we climb. And speaking of climbing, January 23, 2026. Save the date for our Shillitek signature event, and we'll be climbing and carrying others with us because we rise higher together. Stay tuned, more coming up soon. That was Gael Kwanda signing off from Denver, Colorado.

All right, we have a special guest here on the Leadership and Success Podcast today, Saturday. And, um, before I introduce her, as you guys know, we are going to do what is our tradition. We spent a moment of gratitude. This is where we just take a moment to be grateful. So you already know the drill. If you would maybe close your eyes, take a deep breath, and slow down your nervous system and think about one thing that you are grateful for right now. And today I am so grateful. It looks like, you know, spring is just around the corner. I believe it's this Sunday across America we are going to be changing our clocks. Right, spring ahead. And I am just grateful for the change of season. And sometimes, you know, it doesn't take very, very much to be grateful for just knowing that you are alive and that you can just observe this beauty and nature and just know everything that is happening around you. I know there is a lot of chaos and a lot of things we could be worried about, but if you can just spend a moment to be grateful for something, I think it really makes a big difference. So let us know in the comments what are you grateful for today? And also let us know where you are joining us from. And then if you have a question for my guest, please type it in the comments as well. We will answer live. Okay, let me see if I can properly introduce our guest today. So today I am really honored and privileged to be speaking to a cybersecurity expert. Her name is Gaelle Kohonda. She's certified with CISSP, CISM, and PMP. She's a cybersecurity professional, community builder, and a global advocate for leadership development in cybersecurity. She serves as the vice president of education at ISACA Denver chapter. She's the founder of She Leads Tech Colorado, Founder of Women in Cybersecurity Côte d'Ivoire and Burkina Faso, those two countries, uh, in Africa. So French-speaking Africa. So Gaelle is passionate about building cybersecurity ecosystems that expand opportunity, strengthen digital trust, and empower the next generation of leaders across continents. That's why she is here. Her leadership bridges North America and Africa, helping develop the future of cyber workforce while advancing governance. Risk and Compliance Excellence. All right. Without any further ado, please help me welcome the one and only Gaelle Kouanda. Good morning, Gaelle. How are you doing today?

Good morning. I'm doing good. Thank you so much for having you, having me today. And how are you doing yourself?

Great, great. And I know you speak French. I'm being originally from Burkina Faso. As you know, I am originally from the Congo, French Congo. So let me ask you this, uh, what is, uh, one thing you are grateful for today?

One thing that I'm grateful today, I'm grateful for my son. I have an 8-year-old. I'm grateful for him.

That's beautiful. Wow, it's really amazing how these kids just grow up so quickly.

Fast.

Yeah, my, uh, our first child, she's 24 years old now, but it looks like she was born yesterday.

Yesterday, yeah.

You will always, always be my baby. But anyway, what is something about you that most people may not know when they first meet you?

Um, when they meet— when someone— when people meet me, because I'm very chatty and extrovert, Um, people that know me very, very, very well know that sometimes I can be very shy.

Wow.

But this is something people don't know about me.

Yeah, because I've seen you on LinkedIn, you are on a lot of stages speaking.

It's funny, I was speaking with a friend, um, last year at Rocky Mountain, and he came and he tells me that he told me that, um, there's a woman that came to me and said, oh, I did not know that girl can talk. I am glad. She's very shy. And then he's like, in his head, he was like, I don't know if we're talking about the same guy. I'm like, depending on the setting. So this is something that people don't know about me. And the other thing, as for one, um, my goal is to move back for Africa. In the next 5 years.

Wow, thank you for sharing that. But I am really impressed in the work you are doing in both Africa and your country of origin, Burkina Faso. I know cybersecurity is definitely growing there. And by the way, before we get started, I want to say big congratulations. You got the APEX Award, right? The Emerging Leader of the Year. That is a big deal.

So thank you so much.

Merci beaucoup. Très, très bien. So maybe the first Question I want to ask, um, every leader tend to have like a defining origin story. What first inspired you to pursue a career in cybersecurity?

You know, I did not start in cybersecurity. My background was in business management, actual science and finance. And what drew me into cybersecurity was, um, first of all, I was not making enough money. Like, let's be transparent. And then I did not want to go back to school for medical school or pharmacy because, um, medic— when you go to medical school is more secure, you know. Let's add that. And then, um, did some research and I heard about IT auditing. Since I had a finance, um, background, I had my bachelor's in finance and I also work with a CPA firm. I was like, okay, let's do IT auditing. So I did my research and I heard that there was— I was in Atlanta, there was a— the school where I got my bachelor was offering a 1-year program for Master in Information Systems Audit and Control. Wow. And then I just went. And then cybersecurity is not just about technology, it is about protecting people, businesses, and society. And then I get bored easily. And cybersecurity is so— I mean, technology in general is so innovative that I also fell in love with something that's changed all the time. So you have to be learning, you don't get bored. So this is cybersecurity.

Wow, thank you so much for, uh, sharing that, because like you said, you've studied finance before transitioning into cyber Governance and Audit. What lessons from finance kind of shaped the way you think about risk and digital trust today?

Okay. I mean, finance teaches you how to think about risk, what is risk, accountability, and decision-making. And in GRC, I mean, governance risk, yeah, in GRC, We do the same thing. Governance is in compliance. We do the same thing. We evaluate the risk, we prioritize investment, and we protect, um, organizational value. So my finance background helped me translate cybersecurity risk into business language executives understand. I believe so, yes.

Wow, that is quite fascinating. But looking back at the early days of your career, what were some of the biggest challenges you faced breaking into cybersecurity? And also, to be frank, especially in America, the cybersecurity space wasn't really meant for people who look like us, right? You are one of them. You are Black and you are an immigrant. So, um, what did you have to overcome to become an expert in this field in the US?

You know, my first cybersecurity job was a disaster. I was an IT consultant and they put me on big project. I was flying to, um, Seattle to work with AWS, stuff like that. It was very hard. The men, I mean, they were all men. I was pregnant with my child and they will, they will just throw acronyms that I don't know. And at that time I did not know that I can Google. You know, I thought that I was dummy, you know, that I will never understand. But it's not— it was not, um, it was not, um, it was not easy. For example, after coming back from maternity leave— and while I was in maternity leave, I lost my brother.

Oh no.

Coming back and they knew that I was new in Colorado because I moved from Georgia to Colorado. And I did not have a family. I'm a first-generation immigrant. They were flying me to Seattle with a 6-week-old. So that was one of the challenges. Yes. And then I had to work hard to prove credibility and certification, build trust, you know. I used to say that I'm not technical. I would never say that anymore, you know. Anything You can Google, you can learn, and we have AI now. You can go and learn. No one— like, it's just working harder. And then also cybersecurity is also who you know. Like, uh, like, if you— I like to say that my network is my net worth.

Yes.

And I learned it by going to events. I will like I will go to some networking event and I will not see any Black, and sometimes no Black woman. But like, I know I don't let my color define me. I like to say that even if I'm Black, white, or Latina, I don't really know.

Yes.

And then, uh, I start observing networking, and then I was like, okay, I start joining boards and I'm like, okay, let's try to give others what I wish someone had offered me when I first started. Wow. You know, and I think like the challenge I went through built the resilience and shaped the leader I am today.

Wow.

So I'm just giving back what I wish someone had given to me to make my life easier.

Wow.

That is so wonderful and inspiring. And if you want, you can get a cup of water if that's going to help.

Thank you.

But I really love our conversation.

Wow.

I mean, you can go ahead and get water while I—

Sure. Okay.

Thank you.

—keep the people here. But yes, I am just so inspired by people like Gael, an immigrant like I am, coming to completely different country. So her original language is French, and now she has to learn English with the American accent, which again, it changes depending on where you live in America, having so many challenges ahead of her, but still, you know, moving forward and not making excuses. And really, in her own way, achieving the American dream. That is really quite amazing. So it is really a great honor to be speaking with you, Gael. And another thing I would like to ask, kind of asking you about your experience across multiple global organizations, I think you can offer us some valuable lessons. So you've worked across organizations like BAE Systems, I believe you are, Sylvain, as a cybersecurity expert, Ball Aerospace, and Western Union, those are pretty big global organizations. What leadership lesson did each environment kind of teach you about cybersecurity governance?

All right, um, Western Union taught me about cybersecurity in global financial system, you know. Um, I don't know if you know, but Bola Aerospace is now BAE. BAE acquired Bola Aerospace, and Bola Aerospace is one of the newer sectors. So I work for BAE Space and Mission Systems. Wow. Um, almost. I'm going to my fourth year now. And then, um, I did not know that I was going to last there even two years because anybody knows that in aerospace is only— we call it the white men club, right? And me with an accent, African, and then, uh, um, I was talking about acronyms earlier. I thought that cybersecurity was a world of acronyms, you know. Aerospace is worse. Yes. Oh my God, aerospace is worse. Like, um, and then for example, we don't use the same— like, like, like, for example, in IT compliance, I used to ask evidence to my, um, my, uh, control owner or like asset owner over there we say artifacts. So I have to relearn, you know. And then, and also, it taught me something. I'm grateful for my organization. I landed in a great department. They taught me that cybersecurity is— there's nothing perfect. Yes, it's, it's progress. Progress of, of perfection. And then they also showed me the importance of the security in a mission-critical environment. And they also showed me that the most important that we think like that we are protecting other human Yes, you know, we work with, um, we do work with, um, now that we are a defense contractor, we send people into space, we send like stuff into space, and sometimes there are people in it. So we are protecting people first.

Wow, that is, that is quite a, uh, a great way of looking at cyber because I think many times people focus too much on the technology and they forget about the people and the processes and governance.

It's, uh, wow. And then I would like to add that, um, BAE really, um, invests in, in their employees. I'm grateful for them. They paid for my certificates. Um, right now I'm in school. They are getting, um, to— I would like to get a better understanding of CMMC, so I'm about to become certified. CMMC assessor. So they put people first, and this is something that my, my current organization taught me, and I'm also applying that outside my organization.

That is so beautiful. So many cybersecurity professionals, they want to transition, right, from just being a technical person into some type of leadership role. What skills have helped you make that transition?

You know what, the ability to influence without a title. Yes, you know, first, um, understand the business, um, and then communication. I'm still working on that. I'm doing Toastmasters right now. And you are quite busy. Yeah, I hate reading, but reading Reading is very important. And also, I mean, leadership in cybersecurity is aligning security with business goals. Yeah, you know, if you want to go transition into leadership in cybersecurity, don't talk like, like with acronyms, you know. We know that, you know. Try to explain stuff. The board is not technical. The people that have the money, they are not technical. Yes, you know what I mean? So try to talk like a business person.

Wow, that is really insightful. Actually, that is so true because when I, uh, I left Monterey, I came to Silicon Valley 2014, so that's 12 years ago. Uh, that's when I decided to actually get a Master of Business Administration for that very same reason, because just being technical doesn't work with the board, doesn't work with senior management, because the CFO wants to know, what are you going to do for me? Why do I spend so much money? Exactly. And you have to be able to explain it in a way that makes sense to a business person.

Because what's the ROI of me buying this system?

You know, what's the ROI? That's right, return on investment. So you have to know the business of your company and then, uh, figure out how to align your cybersecurity program to those objectives. That is, that is so, so key. So, uh, when we talk about governance, risk, and compliance, but it's sometimes underestimated compared to engineering role. Yes. Why is GRC actually one of the most strategic function in cybersecurity, you think?

You know, GRC, governance and compliance, um, you know Before, when I started in GRC, I'm like, no, I want to become a network engineer. To me, I feel like over there there were more— like, I thought that I was not contributing, that I was just like no one wanted to meet and talk to me because, um, they, they don't understand why I'm telling them to do this, do this, you know, why I'm asking for evidence. But now I'm, I'm glad I stayed in GRC. Governance with some compliance. Connect cybersecurity with business strategy. Okay. Yes. Engineers, they build the tools, which is also important, right? But GRC, I mean, ensure organization— that organization make the right security decision. So without governance, security become reactive instead of strategic. Makes sense.

Wow, that is quite Powerful. Let me ask you this: what motivates you to really try to develop especially women cybersecurity professionals, not just in America but in Africa as well? Global impact.

There are something that they did not teach me in school, you know. I mean, I was a student in high school and also in college You know, and I thought that life was getting— is what you go get a, you go get a certificate or get a diploma and then you get a job. No, they did not teach me confidence in school. They did not teach me, like, like I said, confidence to believe in myself. They did not teach me to say no, to have boundaries. You know, yes, they did not teach those stuff. They don't teach. And these are things that will help you be a great leader either in cyber security or elsewhere. So my philosophy is climb, carry, connect, network. Like I said, my network is my net worth. Yeah, carry, bring order with you. Build strong community because we are stronger together.

That is, that is quite powerful because this leads me then to the, uh, uh, question, especially the, the, the work you are doing in, in Africa, right? So you founded She Leads Tech in Colorado and you are the first Women in Cybersecurity chapter in Francophone Africa. We said Burkina Faso and never been done. Well, it's Côte d'Ivoire, it's not Ivory Coast, but anyway, yeah. Uh, so what, what, what inspired you to create this initiative? That is, that is quite impressive.

Um, because like I said, like, because why did I, um, create it in Africa? Or why do I create like everything like in America, in Africa? Yes, it's because I said I wish— I'm just giving what I wish someone had given to me. You know, we do have, you know, this is what motivates me. And also, we are stronger together. Yes, yes. You know, um, and there is no, like, there is, um, there is no loss. Like, um, what is his name, Magic Johnson, said last year at RSA, he said, you know, don't worry about the money, make the impact, and the money will follow. And I truly believe it, you know, and I can already start seeing that. So I'm giving and I'm also investing in myself at the same time. You know, you cannot pour from an empty cup. You know, the thing about me, I'm very authentic. I'm very straight. Yes. I mean, yeah.

Yeah. Wow. That is really powerful. And I think I thought I took a picture of it. I can't find it now, but you even wrote also, right, in in, uh, in, in, in French about cyber security. I think it was the African magazine, was it?

Yes, they featured me. The Afrique, yeah, they asked for me, they interviewed me.

So I think they're gonna publish a video or something. Cyberattack on Air Côte d'Ivoire. That is, that is pretty.

Yes, I wrote an article about it, you know. And then, uh, something that is in the pipeline Am I, am I, am I helping you to ask for advice? I want to start doing a weekly, um, video where I'm talking in French and talking to organizations in Africa. Wow, that is powerful.

So what are some of the biggest barriers you still see women still face entering cybersecurity leadership roles today?

You know, I always said it, And I will say it again, I even wrote an article I haven't published. I might publish it tomorrow or Monday, International Women's Day. We have to stop making noise. We like, we never hear that men in cybersecurity, you know, women were the first in cybersecurity before men. I don't know if you know that.

No, I didn't know that.

Now for the past 5 years, we like 25% globally with all the money invest. One of the challenge that I'm seeing is that women don't help women. I don't know why. When a woman get to a certain level, you will see that the people below her are men. I don't know if she's scared that if she start bringing woman, she'll get fired or something. I don't know what's going on. And then, yeah, this is one of the biggest challenge I see. Yeah, this is one of the biggest challenge that I see.

And you see that pretty much across the board, everywhere. Yeah. Okay. So what can organizations then do, or even male allies, to kind of help build more inclusive cybersecurity teams?

Advocate more for them and also show them that we are stronger together. Not because you mentor that person, and even if you mentor her and she become better, then you should be proud. You know, I have one of my mentors that said something that really hurt and stayed with me. And after that, I'm like, I would never look for a mentorship from a young woman. I will always look for mentorship from someone that is— who is in her 50s or 60s. She's like, oh, you made it now, you don't need me, you know. And it really hurt me. I don't know if she listened to this one day. I mean, it really hurt me because the point was not to make it or something. The point was to get better. Yes, you know, wow, become better, you know. And you should be proud. We are not competitors.

Yeah, because actually when it comes to leadership, you learn both ways. Now the mentor learn from the mentee and the mentee learns from the mentor. Um, and if you're gonna lead, you have to lead with an open Mentorship is not a one-way, it's a two-way.

And they also— I read somewhere that if there is a mentorship and the mentor is not benefiting from the mentee, this mentorship is a waste of time. And actually, the mentor should be benefiting 6 times more than the mentee.

Wow. Yeah, I believe that. Wow. Okay, so let's talk about kind of like your global impact global cybersecurity and what you're doing with Africa's digital future? Because you've worked to connect cybersecurity community between North America and West Africa. What opportunity do you see for Africa in the global cybersecurity ecosystem?

You know, Africa is— I mean, I'm not— you might think I'm biased because my heart is from Africa, is in Africa. I've been living in the US for 17 years now, But trust, Africa is one of the fastest growing digital markets. True. Number one, the population is very young. There is an opportunity to build a strong cybersecurity ecosystem, like I told you before, to start through education, innovation, and leadership. Yes, that's why, um, yeah, I mean, Africa is the future.

Yes.

Yeah, so, so many opportunities there. So how important is cybersecurity for economic development and digital trust in emerging markets? Like, in—

look at what happened with Côte d'Ivoire recently, you know, um, without cybersecurity there is no digital trust, and without digital trust there is no digital economy, and we are all going digital. Yes. You know, true. So cybersecurity, um, is very important and should be the heart of everything right now.

So let's talk a little bit about emerging threats and the future of cybersecurity. What cybersecurity risks should leaders be paying attention to over the next 5 years, you think?

You know, for example, most of the people are now they don't do on-premises anymore, is all cloud. So the first challenge will be the cloud security challenge. Yes, right. Let's look at what happened with AWS last week. I think some of the data centers in the Middle East were bombarded. Yes, you know. So cloud security challenge, critical infrastructure threats, And the rise of AI, the bad people are using AI. Yes, you know, so it's big. Like, look at, for example, like, before it was easy to, to recognize a phishing email, but with AI it takes a minute. Come on, you know.

Yes, yeah.

And then, um, So I will say AI-driven cyberattack also, supply chain attack too.

Yes, we live quite in a very fascinating world. So many challenges, things like that kind of excite me. For people like us who are in cybersecurity field, it means we're going to have pretty much a job security. There's always going to be need for people with our skill set. So how do you say, you mentioned AI, how do you say artificial intelligence reshaping cybersecurity, both in terms of threats and defensive capabilities as well?

Okay, AI should be our best friend. AI will empower the attacker and us, the defenders. You know, um, organizations that combine, um, human expectors and expectants with intelligent automation like AI will succeed. Like I read somewhere that organizations that are not using AI right now, they go out of business in the next 5 years. Wow. And then we've been to— we are— I mean, I was scared that AI was going to take my job. I'll admit that. But after reading and doing some research, I know that AI is not here to take my job. AI is here to take the job of the person who refuses to learn AI. True. Look, when you add AI on your resume or on LinkedIn, recruiters start reaching out to you right now. Yes, because they know that AI is important. So AI is here to empower all of them, all of us, us protecting the organization and also, um, empower the bad people.

Yes. And when it comes to AI, so still an emerging tech, what type of, um, control or safeguard do you think, uh, should be applied when an organization deploys AI?

You know, um, um, first of all, invest inside your organization. Like I was sharing last time, have they not, you know, this one-hour, um, cybersecurity awareness training that all employees have? Yes. Not— stop doing that, please. Using like 5-minute video to show people in the organization how AI can, um, can be a threat. Like how they can receive an email thinking that it is the boss that are emailing them, but it's not the boss. Show them real-world example. Make them excited to learn about AI. Don't make it boring security training for them to learn. Yes. This is one of the steps. Wow. I don't need to—

No, thank you so much for sharing that. I'm going to go into our last segment. We have about 25 minutes left where I kind of try to get into your head and kind of try to get the leadership principles that have helped you be as successful as you are today. But before I do, how many languages do you speak? I know you at least speak French and English. Anything else? Yes, I speak my African.

I speak Moore. I understand Bambara. And then, like you guys did, like, do Spanish in America. I did because I did all my— not my undergrad. I went to college in the US, but from preschool to high school, I went to school in Burkina Faso. So my, uh, second language was German. German.

Wow, so you speak 5 languages? That is—

I mean, not very, very fluent, but yeah.

But at least, at least you, you understand and you have spoken. If you go back to a region that speaks the language, it should come back. When my mother was alive, she used to make fun of me because my French was extremely poor. She still understood what I was saying. But if you don't speak French, you've lived in America for, I don't know, 20, 25 years, you kind of lose, uh, some of, some of the words. But eventually when you go back to France or a French-speaking country, it all— so that is, that is beautiful. Because the, the thing is, I don't know if you've experienced this, but when I came to America, I was like 17 years old. Of course, English wasn't my first language, and I, and I was just learning how to speak. So a lot of people made fun of me, my, my accent, pronunciation, and, and all of that. But the thing that always, I don't know, I thought was pretty interesting is most of them, they hardly, hardly spoke English. And that was the only language they knew. And I was speaking 5, 6 languages at the time. I mean, it is just funny to me.

I used to be ashamed of my accent. Now it's part of my identity. And what And what makes me unique is my identity, you know what I mean? You know, I mean, and, and then I will tell you, like, trust me, if you want me to repeat 5 times, I will repeat 5 times because, as you know, I was, you know, this is not my language. I learned it after I turned 19. So you know what, yes, for me, the ex— the accent will still be here, you know what?

And that's me, and that's what makes us different. That is, that is really beautiful. But especially in this country, in the US, everybody speaks with an accent. You know, you don't believe me, just go to London in England. That's where the English originally come from.

But anyway, you go to New York, it's different accent. Go to the South, different accent. You go to—

yeah, well, when I first came to the US, I went to South Tuscaloosa, Alabama. It was very, very difficult. To understand them with their accent there. But eventually I got used to it. And both of my kids, they were born there. They really had a very strong Southern accent. And then when we moved to California, they completely changed their accent. They sound all Valley California now. But anyway, it's interesting to see. So let me ask you this. What do you believe is the greatest lesson you have ever learned in life, in leadership, in general?

The greatest lesson I learned in life is that you cannot pour from an empty cup. Tell us more. Yes, and then you have to have boundary. You know, us coming from Africa, they don't teach us boundaries, you know. Yes, you didn't teach us no. Yeah, like how to say no to people. It doesn't mean that you don't like them or love them. You have to— it's you first, you know. Even when you love, you cannot— because if you pour, you keep pouring from it, from your cup without refilling it You are going to exhaust and become depressed. Yes. And also, a life lesson again is that what you give— don't ask— what you give to people, don't expect that they will give it back to you. Give and forget. You forget. Yes. Um, leadership lesson is, um, You need— you don't need a title, you know. You don't even start to start leading. Believe in your voice matters. Speak up. Yeah.

And then, uh, that's powerful.

Life is a— how do they say? Life is like a I mean, the road of success is, will be, is, and will always be under construction.

Yes, so always progress. But I like what you say is you cannot give from an empty cup. What kind of things do you do to refill your cup? Like, how do you recharge?

Take a mental day. Like, for example, 2 days ago I did not work. I went to the mountain with my son. I took him out of school. I have to— I'm going to post that on LinkedIn. And then I did not have connection, I recharge, you know, you know. And also, like I told you, I'm in school right now for CMMC. I'm a continuous learner. Wow. Yeah, I mean, but it was not like that. I learned it from my past mistake, you know, take care of myself. Um, I love to have fun, so everything I do, I will always have fun in it. Even when I host a boot camp, we learn for 3 days, but we are also going to have fun, you know. Yes, I try to enjoy as I can, enjoy life as I can, because tomorrow is not guaranteed. True. And then, yeah, so that's— this is how I refill my cup.

So let me ask you this: what do you believe is the secret to your success, right? You went from the world of finance into cybersecurity, a brand new endeavor, and then you got all of those certifications. Moving to the US, you learned a brand new language, you became a consultant. Now you are a cybersecurity expert at BAE Systems. And then on top of that, you are also giving back and reaching out to West Africa, developing organizations.

And I have my own business. Yes.

So how— what— what— why are you so successful? I don't think I'm—

okay, I will not be humble. I think I'm successful. Yes. But my bank account doesn't reflect that yet. But I believe I'm successful. It will. Um, you know, life, like I said, the road of success will be always under construction. In 2018, I slept in my car. I, I experienced housing insecurity, you know. I became a single mother. I lost my brother unexpectedly. So I think what really, um, helped me is that I did not give up. Yes, yes. So not giving up helped me succeed. Wow. Yeah, not giving up, and I'm proud of that.

Yes, yes. Wow, you are such an inspirational leader. Thank you for sharing that.

Never, never, never give up. Give up? Not never. You might be one step away. Yes, you know, the road of the success will always be under construction.

But for some people listening to us right now, uh, hope seems like it's so far away. It's almost like an abstraction. How do you keep hope alive when you are not sure where your next meal might be coming from and you really truly struggle? I am a believer.

I was born and raised Catholic. Um, so my faith keep me hopeful.

Yes.

What are you believing in? No, be just— if you— if even if you are not Christian, if you are Muslim, if you believe in a rock, you know. Yes.

You know, it would keep you hopeful. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. All right. And I know that leaders are learners. I think I know the answer to this. What are you learning these days? I believe you are Uh, taking courses, you said, for the CMMC, right?

And then I'm starting a climbing career leadership journey. Even if you're online, you want to join. And then quarterly, I will take a group of women, like, from executive to entry-level, to talk about the book. So more reading. And the first book we are reading is Nice Girl Don't Get the office corner. Wow. Um, so that, and then I'm adding, I'm working out now. I try to do my, at least my 5,000 to 10,000 steps a day and then go to the gym at least once a week. Adding that because, um, doing a lot of things make you stressful, and when you stress make you stress, and when you stress, you cannot produce. Yes. Yeah, so I do that, and then I'm, I'm in school for my CCP and my CCA. Hopefully I'll become a certified CMMC professional by end of April, and by end of June I'll become a— finger crossed— a certified CMMC assessor.

Wow, that is really awesome, man. You never stop learning, do you? You know what?

Cybersecurity also keeps changing, so we have to keep learning.

True, true, true. Wow, that is quite amazing. So what about failure? I have this coin which I like. One of my best skippers gave it to me. On one side it says success, and on the other side it says failure. So two sides of the same coin. And usually when we have interviews and podcasts, we always talk about your successes. What about failure? How has failure shaped your life?

I'm so grateful for all my failure. Success does not teach you anything. True. Failure does. So failure make you become successful. I like that. You know, it is proven, right?

Yeah, I believe it was JFK who said that success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. But yes, you learn so much more when you fail than when you succeed.

What do you learn from your success, Martin? What do you learn from your failure? That you should have done this instead of doing this.

Wow, that is quite amazing. Is there one failure you are willing to share?

Okay, my CISA. I took my CISA 3 times. Today I'm a CISA, right? I'm a Certified Information Systems Auditor. But I didn't just pass it at the first time. I took it 3 times. Wow. You know, and then I learned that, for example, the first time I sit— I sat for the Cesar was when I was mourning my brother. When your mind is not right, there's no way you can go and study and pass something. Don't— I learned that if you are studying for a certification or anything, you have to start with your mind, whether you're smart or not, you know. Yes. Um, the second time, I was just— it was like 2 years after I failed. I just wanted to pass. I was just learning by heart, learning by heart. You know, and I failed. And I'm like, you know what, no more learning by heart. Try to understand, even if it's gonna take me one year. Yes, I'm going to read, understand, take the practice exam until I score like 80 to 90%. So patience. Wow.

Yes. So it goes back to what you said earlier, 2018. My first trial to 2022. Wow, congratulations, and thank you so much for sharing that. I was just saying, it's like what you said earlier, right? Never, never give up. And it's really beautiful to see people like you, even though you have a lot of challenges ahead of you, but you keep moving forward, and that's very inspirational. Wow. So is— what, what do you think is one of the greatest fear you have had to overcome in life?

The greatest fear I had to overcome in life— being alone. Yeah, you know, I thought that I needed someone to be a better me, you know. I thought that I need like a— I mean, husband is important, you know what I mean. That I needed to have like a lot of friends. No. Yes, you had the fear of being alone, but now you have to be able to be happy alone, eat alone, learn alone, travel alone. You become a whole, and after that you become like a magnet. Yes, you will start attracting people, the right people, to you. Instead of chasing people. Yes. So I was— I never wanted to be alone. I used to have a lot of friends, but now I identify myself as a lion. The lion is always alone. Wow. And the lion is very strong.

Thank you for sharing that. I know in everybody's leadership journey, you do need to get to know yourself, and you can't really do that if you are always surrounded by a whole bunch of people. So you need to spend some time alone Meditate and get to know yourself, your skill, your weaknesses, what you like, what you don't, your core values, who you are as a person, and then kind of let that purpose guide you throughout all of your life. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. If you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, they could be alive, they could be dead, or even fictitious character, who would you choose and why?

My, my little brother, he died after he became a doctor. He died a month after. So he studied for 14 years in medical school. So I'd like to have dinner with him and tell him that he should have enjoyed his life instead of— he was just focusing on his studies, you know, like how he always said that he will start enjoying after he became a doctor. He will become a doctor. So I will have— I wanna him— and then, uh, and, you know, and tell him that I, I will try to make him proud. So my brother and, um Um, Michelle Obama. She's very smart. She doesn't let her color define her. Yes. And then, um, she's a hard worker. And then every time I listen to her, her on a show or on a podcast, something, you know. And I love when she said, when they, when they go low, you go high, you know. Yeah, it's something that when someone tried to diminish me, you know, before I used to fight, but I just tell myself, when they go low, you go high. Like, I remember I was going, not my current employer, but I was going to Burkina Faso one time, and one of my boss asked me, what is the, um, what did she say, what is the, um, the quarantine days for Ebola? And I said, what? I'm like, there's no Ebola in my country. She said she Googled, there's Ebola in I did not even know where was Kivu. Yeah, you know, and then, uh, you know, I went, man, that's so silly, you know, you know, it's how people are. And then after Michelle Obama, um, Gary Vee, Gary Vee, because I've I think that Gary Vee is very— is— he has a big— his vision is always right. He's a strategist, you know. For example, Gary Vee is all about social media, you know. Yes. And I learned it all from, from him. And I can see that by applying what Gary Vee teaches his audience, my LinkedIn, that's what I apply on my LinkedIn. So I would like to see him and, you know, keep getting tips. That's good.

Yeah, he's really good with marketing for sure. So what are some of the books you've read that we should read? You've already mentioned one, this one, Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office. Why should we read this book?

Because it teaches you that getting nice, excuse my French, kissing asses, It's not gonna get you where you want to go.

American need to stop saying that. Excuse my French, that's not French at all. That's American, that's English. Okay, French-speaking people get offended because that's not French. Yes.

Okay, so it teaches you that, uh, you don't have to be mean, but you have to have a personality. Yes. You know, not by saying yes boss, yes ma'am, we get to where you, where you want to go. Yes, you know, it teaches you stuff that you wish your younger self knew, but it's never late. Very good. And then I also, I also love Let Them Go from Mel Robbins.

Yes, I think I have that here. My wife gave it to me for Christmas.

Uh, I'm actually going to see her in April.

Anyway, it's serious. Somewhere. Uh, I like, I like that book too, Mel Robbins. I think it's already on the digital library for the leadership. And also, and I think she wrote that book with her daughter, right, if I remember? No, no, alone. Okay.

It's a green cover. Yeah. And also some of Dale Carnegie, uh, No, Simon Sinek.

Yeah, I guess one of his most famous book is, uh, How to Win Friends and Influence People.

But also, um, like Simon Sinek, um, the white book is White and Red. He has two. Yeah. And also there's this book that I read, um, it's from John Maxwell. I don't know the title.

I am pretty sure I, I have that. The one we're studying right now on my podcast is this one, 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. Let me— I have my book. And I guess the one from Simon Sinek, one is Start With Why. Is that one of them?

Yes, Start with Why. Yeah, Start with Why. And also, I think he's the one who said leader eat last.

Yes, that is, uh, Simon Sinek too. Leaders eat last. Now there is another book I saw on your LinkedIn page. Do you recommend this one, uh, Stronger Together: Women in Cybersecurity?

Yes, I recommend because I know the author. I haven't read it But I believe it's a good book. I know David Means, yeah, copy for my previous conference to give away.

So what is maybe a song or a book or even a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

Oh my God, what movie? Oh my goodness, I watched it not too long ago. Um, okay, I watched this movie many times. Um, The War Room.

The War Room, nice.

The War Room is all about faith. Yes, this is a movie that I watched maybe 6 times.

Yes, I believe it's available on Netflix now, right? Amazon. Yes, Amazon.

The War Room with, uh, Priscilla Chan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, no, all about faith. That's what keeps me faithful, like, hopeful, like I just told you guys. Yes. Um, you said song.

So, um, is there maybe a song that inspires you when you feel down or upset?

Or this is my fight song. You know this song? I love—

who's that by?

Oh my God, I know the song but I don't know the singer.

That's fine, I, I will, uh, find out.

This is Rachel Platten, fight song. And then, um, there is a Burkinabe guy that just made a song not too long ago. The title is Success. His name is Smarty. Yeah, yeah, you know, there is like— I have season, like when I'll be listening to these and then I would go back and listen to this.

You know, yeah. All right, so let me ask you, if you had one and only one day to live— we have about 5 minutes left— uh, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Make Africa, Africa the hub of cybersecurity. You heard what I said? Hello, are you there? That I said, make a cyber security, make Africa the hub of cyber security. That is, that is like data center, all powered by solar energy, stuff like that.

You know, we get True. And I guess one big opportunity in African countries right now is because they were so behind, they can skip a lot of the progress that Western countries, Europe and America have done and just come to the emerging tech right away. Right. And I think that is a huge advantage, especially with AI. Yeah, yeah, true. Wow. Okay. So if you had a magic wand and you could solve any problem in the world, What is the one problem you'd like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

Racism. People are racist because they are ignorant.

Yes. Yes. Okay. If you had the ear of every young woman in America for the next 60 seconds, especially women of color, what would you tell them to do tomorrow morning?

No, repeat. What would I tell them to do? So what will happen to—

if, if every woman in America could listen to you for the next 60 seconds, what would you tell them to do?

This, this is our power. This color does not define us, it makes us different. We make us unique. We have to believe in ourselves. We have to be stronger together. We have to keep learning, um, educating ourselves, and make sure we invest in our kids because our kids are the future. Let's network harder together and invest in the younger generation because we are stronger together.

Wow, thank you so much for sharing that. Okay, all good things do come to an end, so we are coming toward the end of the podcast. What can we do to add value back to you?

Um, to add value back to me, you can join me in my movement whether it's SheleTech Colorado. I mean, SheleTech is not my trademark, like I told you. I founded it in Colorado, and then I'm working on my own trademark that will be called the Gail Initiative for Trade and for STEM and Trade. And then, so follow me on LinkedIn, join my initiative, whether it's SheleTech, which is West Africa And then all are going to be under one umbrella that will be called Get Again Initiative the next 2 years.

And what are you planning for January 2027?

You know, um, every year I have a yearly conference. I started with 50, 2 years ago now with 250. Is a day for us to uplift, start the year by uplifting, you know, each other. And then it's usually a 1-day conference from 8 to 6. We pamper you, we connect, we make sure that there are like the right leaders in the room. At my conference, there is no title on your badge, and then when you come, you stay. So we are going to have it again next year for the 4th time at the Inverness Resort and Spa. 8 AM to 6 PM. This year I had like 9 states were represented, and then someone even came from Canada.

Wow, that's amazing.

All are already asking me when is the next date, when is it, because it's always sold out. And it doesn't— it's like $35, but it's all sponsored, so you get like a $1,800 to $1,000 VIP treatment. Yes. Wow. Knowledge that you will apply in your life and at your organization.

And all they have to do is follow you on LinkedIn. On LinkedIn, yeah. Very good. Wow, that is so powerful. Okay, so is there a question I should have asked you, Gaelle, that I didn't get a chance to ask you today?

I don't think so. I think— oh yeah, do you think of any?

Okay, so in that case, let's end. It's going to take only a couple of minutes with a lightning round, so you're going to have to think fast. Okay, the first thing that comes to your mind, give it to us. Uh, what is one word that defines great leadership? One word. Okay, you're taking too long. Whatever comes to your mind first.

What word that define leadership? Put yourself—

I cannot Um, earlier when we're speaking, you talked about influence, not title. Would influence be that word? Maybe? No, responsibility. Responsibility, like that. Okay. What is the morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded? Praying. Okay. What is a book or a quote that changed your life?

When they go low, you go high.

Yeah, and that's by our First Lady forever, Michelle Obama.

All right, not fight anymore.

Who inspire you the most today? Me. Okay. All right, that's the first time I've heard, uh, someone being inspired by themselves. That's really great. Okay, what is a leadership habit that you refuse to compromise on? What's a leadership what? Habit you refuse to compromise on.

Cannot pour from an empty cup. Yes.

Okay. What is a question every leader should ask frequently?

Is everything okay?

And what did you want to be when you were a kid?

Engineer. Civil engineer.

Very good. I guess you got a Master of Science, right, in information systems. Not quite engineering, but it's pretty, pretty close. Okay, what are 3 adjectives describing you as a child?

Oh wow, chatty. Mhm. Two more. Um, smart. Mhm. Very generous.

Okay, what about as an adult? Generous. Mhm.

Um, creative.

Okay, one more. Hard worker. Very good. And, uh, I like to end on a, um, positive note, what is something you are feeling optimistic about?

I'm going somewhere and all of you are coming with me.

Wow, that's beautiful. All right, so to end, this is the very last question. What is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today? It was amazing. Amazing. Well, I am so grateful, Gaëlle Kouanda, you were our master teacher today. Thank you so much for sharing from your experience.

Please, I'm asking you the last question that you asked. What you just asked me, what is one word that will—

Yeah, I think every time I do this, I am always so grateful, you know, people like you for taking the time to come and speak to my audience and sharing from your field cup. And hopefully we keep your cup full. And I know we had to reschedule 2 or 3 times. You are a very, very busy woman. Busy in Colorado, across America, and in Western Africa. You're doing a lot of good, good work. Now, anyway, we can support you, let us know. But very grateful that you took the time. Thank you so much for having me. Merci beaucoup. Yeah. Okay, everybody, so that was Gaelle Kouranda. Very, very glad and honored to be talking to her today. And I just love seeing people like that who really put everything on the line. And it is really, really beautiful to see. So before we go, as you guys know, we are celebrating Black History Year on the Leadership and Success Podcast, not just a month, no, 28 days is not long enough to talk about Black history, which is American history. So for today, let me share my screen. I want to— hold on a second. I am going to share my screen here. Just one moment. Ah, this technology. It's something. Okay, let me go back to this. Should be able to share. Just give it a minute. Okay, all right, uh, let me do it this way. All right, come on, computer. I don't know why my computer is a little bit slow right now, but, uh, as you guys know, I pretty much have like two vignettes for, um, I did for Black History Month, but now we're gonna do the same for Black History Year. So the very first one is, all right, uh, today Today in history, so today is March 7th, right? So on March 7th, 1994, women assigned to a US Navy combatant ship for the first time. So that only happens in 1994. On March 7th, the US Navy issued the first order assigning women to serve permanently aboard the commandant ship. That was the USS Dwight Eisenhower. Prior to that, women were not allowed. Okay, so this is quite a historic moment. And then the other thing in Black history I wanted to celebrate is the very first African American millionaire. His name was William Liddesdorf. I think I have a picture of him. That's what he looks like. It's pretty amazing. And he was born in 1841 in the San Francisco Bay Area. So pretty, pretty, pretty amazing. So to end with Black History Month, and I am— Venice, that's going to be the end of the show. I also want to talk about March 7th for Bloody Bloody Sunday, right? And I do have a quick video clip about that, and that's gonna end our show today.

They came with horses. They came with nightsticks. And I was standing and people were running because they were beating them. I did not run, so he hit me at the base of my neck. I became unconscious.

Photos of a woman teargassed and beaten unconscious by Alabama state troopers are among the most iconic images of the civil rights movement. The woman was Amelia Boynton Robinson, a leader of the campaign for Black voting rights in Selma, Alabama, and the first Black woman to seek a seat in the U.S. Congress from that state. She had helped organize a demonstration on March 7th, 1965, to protest the killing of a young African-American church deacon named Jimmie Lee Jackson by an Alabama state trooper and to continue the fight for voting rights. The Selma establishment establishment was known to be among the most egregious in barring Blacks from the polls. But what started as a peaceful protest ended with unspeakable violence. The veteran activist clearly recalls the events of that day, and she recently recounted them to middle school students in Los Angeles.

I'm the Dr. King came, we decided that what we need to do is to have a bill that would let Negroes become registered voters. We were gonna march from Selma, Alabama, which is on the river bridge, to Montgomery. I was near the front at the beginning. They came with horses. They came with nightsticks, and I was standing and people were running because they were beating me. And then he hit me me on my shoulder. I did not run, so he hit me at the base of my neck, and I became unconscious. They drug me off of the highway, and there I lay. I don't know how long, but somebody said to one of the state troopers, "She's dead." So they reported it to Jim Clark, who was the sheriff, and he said, "If she's dead, let her alone and let the buzzards eat her." Images of the atrocities that day sparked shock and outrage across the globe.

When Boynton Robinson became aware of the magnitude of the malfeasance that occurred on Bloody Sunday, it intensified her resolve.

So it made my determination to do better and go farther.

Boynton Robinson was present at the White House when President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act into law in August 1965. The episode became known as Bloody Sunday. It sparked worldwide outrage and helped garner support for the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. As the 50th anniversary of the event approaches on March 7th, Boycott Robinson is not bitter. Instead, she remains resolute in her belief that although she almost died fighting for freedom, the struggle was worthwhile.

After Bloody Sunday, people began to wake up, and those who have arisen because of our Bloody Sunday They have excelled.

Despite her age, Boynton Robinson's activism is far from done. The matriarch of the civil rights movement believes there is still a long way to go. She appealed to today's generation to embrace the lessons of the struggle and not take their vote for granted. For granted.

And I am still determined that these young people will realize that a voteless people is a hopeless people. If we don't register and don't fight for your rights, then we are less, whether it's an individual or a group of people. We are no citizen at all.

So that was Bloody Sunday, March 7th, 1965. In Selma, Alabama, and I used to live in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, not too far from Selma. But that's again one of the reasons why, as a U.S. citizen, especially as a Black man in America, I have to vote every single election, and I will vote in person every single election—local election, you know, county election, state election, and definitely federal election when we vote for president. It is a privilege It is a right. It was written in our Constitution, right? And in Alabama, in Selma, 1965, they didn't want Black people to exercise that right, and that's just not right. Anyway, so that's why I think it's important to remember this history. So I am going to end the show by recognizing a great leader of the civil rights movement. That's Reverend Dr. Jesse Jackson, who passed away last month, and I wrote an article about that leadership lesson from the Reverend, keeping hope alive. And without Jesse Jackson, right, there would not be Obama, that's for sure. So yes, yes, yes, yes, yesterday was the day of his memorial, and President Obama gave a pretty powerful eulogy. Again, you can read my post on LinkedIn and you can watch the entire thing, it's about 28 minutes long, but I'm just going to play you a very, very small clip of that, and that's gonna be the end of the show today. Here we go.

They came with horses. They came with nice sticks. And I was standing and people were running because they were beating me. I did not run, so he hit me at the base of my neck and I became unconscious.

Photos of a woman tear-gassed and beaten unconscious by Alabama State Troopers are among among the most iconic images of the civil rights movement. The woman—

So it may be tempting to get discouraged, to give in to cynicism. It may be tempting for some to compromise with power and grab what you can. Or even for good people to maybe just put your head down and wait for the storm to pass. But this man, Reverend Jesse Louis Jackson, inspires us to take a harder path. His voice calls on each of us to be heralds of change, to be messengers of hope, to step forward and say, "Send me!" Wherever we have a chance to make an impact—whether it's in our school, or our workplaces, or our neighborhoods, or our cities—not for fame, not for glory, or because success is guaranteed, but because it gives our life purpose; because it aligns with what our faith tells us God demands. And because if we don't step up, no one else will.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach Beezy. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.