S5:E61🎙️ LIVE with Delisha Hodo

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor Dr. John C. Maxwell reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

Hey y'all, in case you missed it, I'm actually featured and a cybersecurity guide by the wonderful Ryan Williams Sr. called The Other Side of the Firewall. And honestly, it's real-life stories of movers and shakers and glass ceiling breakers in cybersecurity, um, like a lot of you all are. And it's really just a real talk guide to maneuvering your way through cybersecurity and being your best self. So it's not all about the technical side of cybersecurity, it's more of getting to the heart of why people join cybersecurity, how people actually pivoted into the cybersecurity careers, um, and then just kind of dropping gems and giving you some ways to, to pour back into yourself. Because as we all know, our life is not all about work, it's not all about our careers. It doesn't define us. We define us by who we are as human beings, what we do for other people, and how we pour back into those who pour back into us. So in case you would like to preorder it, presales are happening right now. I'm actually going to drop a link to it in the comments and in the posting. So if you would love to support, please do. Please purchase your book or also just share this posting. So shout out to Ryan, shout out to all the other individuals who are featured in the book. I can't wait to get mine. Mine is already ordered. So if you want to join and support, then I ask you to do so. Happy Monday, y'all. Have a great rest of your week.

All right. We are really delighted to have Delisha right here on the Leadership and Success podcast. And as you know, as is our custom, we always start with a moment of gratitude. And today I had a podcast earlier. So my gratitude for today was really the impact of women in my life. I am very grateful for— I guess it is Women's History Month here in the US, especially my mother, but all of the leaders, the women I have met throughout my life who have really helped me be the man I have become today. So let us know in the chat what you are grateful for today, where you are joining us from, what city, what state, and which country if outside of the US. And if you do have a question for my guest, please type it in the comments as well. We will be answering your questions live. All right, let me see if I can properly introduce our guest today. Today I am really honored and privileged to be speaking with Delicia Odo. She's a trailblazer at the intersection of education, technology, and civic leadership. She currently serves as Assistant Director of Academy Advising at the Sand Technology Institute, one of the world's premier cybersecurity training organizations, where she has helped expand programs that prepare the next generation of cyber professionals. Her impact goes far beyond the classroom. Delicia helped launch the SANS HBCU and Cyber Academy, creating cybersecurity training opportunities for students from historically underrepresented communities and helping diversify the cyber workforce. She also made history as the youngest person ever elected to the city council in Manchester, Georgia, bringing her passion for access, equity, and opportunity into public service. From first-generation college graduate to education leader, cyber workforce advocate, and city councilwoman, Delicia's story is a powerful reminder that leadership is about opening doors for others. So without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Delicia Oro. All right, good afternoon, Delicia. How are you doing?

Good afternoon, thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, such a pleasure to, uh, have you here. Just to get started, what is one thing you are grateful for today?

Today I'm definitely grateful for my team, just their support with me being a city council member while I'm just balancing my work in cybersecurity advocacy and workforce. I'm just definitely grateful for them and, and all they do to encourage me and push me to to, to do better and be better for them.

That's really amazing. And this was pretty recent, right? Why did you want to become a city councilor? What was your motivation?

Yes, um, a lot of the time I was behind the scenes, so I've always supported my community, different organizations, different initiatives behind the scene, and I'm perfectly fine being behind the scenes supporting. Um, but I saw a need there. I saw a gap. And I felt like it was up to me to fill that gap, to step in and be a voice for my community, for my district to say, hey, we see some of the same things going on, we see some of the same issues, but we need someone to step up and speak to those issues and to see what's going on and how we can address them. So I kind of took it upon myself to say, okay, let me step forward, let me talk to the people, let me see what they need and be that voice instead of just coming up with solutions without understanding what the actual problem is.

Wow, that is really, really inspirational. And also you work for SANS, which is a great organization that impacted me quite a lot, especially when it comes to cybersecurity training. I remember when I first started doing cybersecurity, maybe 28, 27 years ago, I used to use a lot of the SANS training and curriculum. It's just awesome. So glad you are here. Is there maybe something about you that most people may not know when they first meet you?

What people may not know, they may pick up on it, they may not, um, is that I'm a very introverted person, but I'm also a very creative person. So I actually used to write poetry and do a little, not too much spoken word, but I performed some of my poetry before, um, in front of crowds. Um, but yeah, I'm naturally very reserved, very introverted.

Um, wow.

But when I need to, I can kind of step to the forefront and and speak and do what I need to do to make sure that I connect with people and kind of speak truth to power.

That is really powerful. And by the way, we want to say hi to Stalin Gonzalez coming to us from South Florida. And Stalin, let us also know what you are grateful for and if you have a question for Adélesha. I guess one of the first questions I wanted to ask you, if you could maybe take us back to the beginning, Where did your passion for education equity start and what experiences in your early life kind of shaped your commitment in helping students access opportunity?

Yes, great question, Coach. Um, honestly, growing up in rural Georgia, I saw firsthand just how your zip code could determine your destiny, especially when it came to college access. So I was the first in my family to attend and graduate from college.. And I literally had to kind of learn the whole process on my own. In my family, I didn't have anyone who could, you know, work through the FAFSA with me or say, am I making the right decision with the college that I'm choosing or truly understand the cost of attending college, especially coming from where I come from. So I really took that personal also because my grandparents, they barely had a 3rd grade education. So I feel like it was really important for me to kind of pass— well, honestly, build a new foundation to say, okay, let me take the torch and take us further. So when I went to City Year San Jose, where I served as a— pretty much as a tutor to 7th graders, and I also co-led an after-school program for 8th graders, it allowed me to understand what it means to show up for others. Yes. And to show for students who've been ignored for most of their lives. And then when I came back home to serve with Georgia College Advising Corps as a college advisor for Best Academy and Coretta Scott King Women's Leadership Academy in Atlanta, it just stopped being a job for me and became more of a calling because it was something that I connected to. I saw myself in a lot of these students and their families, and I wanted to make sure that I was that bridge. To get them to a better opportunity, into a better future.

Wow, that is so inspiring. But then you are also in cybersecurity. Now, I've been doing cybersecurity full-time since what, 2005? 21 years now. I can't believe time is really flying. But almost always, right, I was the one and only Black person in the room. Now I'm seeing more and more women, more people of color, not as much as I think we should, but at least it is getting a little bit better. How has it been for you. So I guess the first question is, how did you find cybersecurity? How did you get into this, uh, field?

So the funny thing is I actually stumbled upon SANS and cybersecurity at the same time. Um, and one of the ways that I stumbled upon it is I was working in the nonprofit sector and I know that I wanted to pivot into higher education. So I was searching for roles in higher ed and I discovered SANS. I had never heard of SANS Institute or SANS Technology Institute Um, but I knew that I wanted to, to pivot into making a difference and learn something new because I had never heard of cybersecurity. That was my opportunity to really lean in and say, oh, I've never heard of this before, it's interesting. I've always been a person who's loved and very tech savvy, so I feel like it could have went hand in hand. So I just really just took that leap of faith and trusted that I was where I needed to be and 6 going on, going to be 7 years in December. I'm in the right place with the right people.

Now, you said you took a leap of faith. For most people, they would be very, very afraid. Where do you think that courage comes from?

Um, I would say from being afraid for too long. Naturally, I'll speak for myself, um, it's really easy to get comfortable Yes. And to stay comfortable. And I think for me, it's really important that I always challenge myself in different ways. A good example of that is when I was in California, I literally moved cross-country. I had never lived out of the state of Georgia before in my life, so I literally moved to California. Yeah, I'm away from my family. And that was me taking a leap of faith, me committing to saying, okay, I'm going to make friends, I'm going to put myself out there, let people see who I am. Was a leap of faith. So I just pretty much learned from that and seen the success of that and carried that on in everything that I've done since then, and it's continued to pay it off.

That is really powerful because I did move my family from Tuscaloosa, Alabama, not far away from where you are in Atlanta, I think 3-hour drive, all the way to crazy San Francisco, California. Yeah, that was quite a move. But prior to that, I guess I moved from where I was born in Pointe-Noire, Republic of the Congo. So from Africa to Alabama. That was much more terrifying. But yeah, I did that successfully. So I was like, ah, California is kind of scary, but not as scary, right? We can do this. But wow, that is really remarkable because you've worked from middle school to cybersecurity academy programs. What do you think is kind of like the common thread? How do those experiences connect in your mission to expand opportunity, you think?

That's another great question. I would probably say—

but wait, you're gonna be saying that over and over again, so we can just skip. Just kidding.

No, that was funny. I would, I would honestly say it has to be the connection of just opening doors for other people, whether it's a student, whether you're a teenager or an adult, or you're middle-aged and you're making a leap to change your career completely from a nurse to moving into cybersecurity. It's all the same because at the end of the day, I'm always making sure that people believe in themselves and that they can walk themselves through it with me alongside them, um, and that they can also, like something I've did, take that leap of faith confidently and succeed and get it to where they need to be. And the other thing that I've noticed that's kind of like a correlation there too, it's just that imposter syndrome or that belief that they don't belong and preaching and leading by example of my own insecurities and saying, hey, regardless of your age, regardless of where you're coming from, we all have something special to offer—

wow—

the world. And you need to find out what your gift is and don't be afraid to share that gift with others, because someone always needs someone's special gift to keep moving, to keep going. Yes. And to get better in life.

That is so powerful. Wow. I really love that you are mission-focused and people-centric. That is so, so very important, right? You've helped hundreds of students secure scholarships and pursue college opportunities. Is there a student story that still kind of stays with you today?

One, one story that— so it's a couple stories, but I'll give you one that kind of goes back to when I was a college advisor, um, in Atlanta. And there was a particular student where they were going to be the first in their family not to just go to college, but to graduate from high school.

Wow.

So they had experienced generations in their household of people who dropped out before they even got a tassel or that cap and gown to put it on. And this student struggled the whole year with fighting that belief that they didn't belong and that they weren't going to make it and that they weren't good enough. And myself and the counselor at the time, we really just poured into the student and I stayed on top of them. I said, hey, here are the different opportunities. Even if you don't decide to go to college, let's try to set you up for a career. So they were able to graduate high school, and even though they didn't go to college, they were able to land a career with UPS.

Wow.

And work there and kind of pretty much start their own trajectory of success and be that new foundation for that family and to break that cycle. So that was really important for me to do because that's low-hanging fruit. And sometimes people just need that love and that push and that consistency to get over the hump. So I wanted to be all that for them.

That's really incredible because for each child that you've helped, you are really changing an entire family tree. It's really amazing. Now you said two, uh, examples came to mind. You want to share the second example too?

Yes. Um, another example was actually early on in my time at SANS. I had a particular student who actually was a, um, a clergy member, which is really interesting. So, so coming from that aspect and pivoting into cybersecurity, and they really had a challenge with kind of changing their mindset of kind of speaking to imposter syndrome again and wondering, okay, am I going to make it through this program? And the funny thing was they were really good at the course content. So it wasn't that they didn't understand the course content or they didn't know what they were doing. It was just a matter of that second-guessing themselves when things just got a little bit hard or trying to convince themselves that it was worth making the sacrifices because life is busy. So when you're juggling our program, work, life, family, it gets pretty crazy. And sometimes you have to make the tough decision of, is it family? Is it this program? Like, what am I going to do? So we sat down and we kind of carved out what a new timeline looked like for them. It's like, hey, let's throw this original timeline out the window. Realistically, what does that look like and how are we going to get you to the finish line? And us just being transparent and them feeling comfortable to talk to me about it allowed them to finish our program with flying colors. And now they're officially working in cybersecurity to this day. So I always love seeing people make the pivot, make the jump in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s.

Wow.

And, and go into a new career. And like you said, change the trajectory of their family for generations. Because you go from making $30,000, $40,000 to essentially making $80,000, $90,000, $100,000. $100,000 in a year or two.

That is amazing. From clergy to cybersecurity. I've never quite heard of that before. That's, that is amazing.

We need, need all the different people.

So that's, that's, that is why, because I feel like when I first started cybersecurity, what, 21 years ago, it seems like we had a huge, huge focus on STEM, right? Science, technology, engineering, and math. Now myself, I had a bachelor in chemistry and biology and almost got a PhD in microbiology. But the thing is, cybersecurity is such a wonderful field and it's, it's a big tent. It doesn't really matter even if you are in art, music, or it doesn't really matter what, there is something for you to do in this field. Do you agree with that?

No, I definitely agree. We, we've had nurses, law enforcement, wow, you name it, we've had people come through and make that Pivot because like you said, we need people with different perspectives.

Yes.

With diverse mindsets because you, you don't want everyone who thinks the same, has the same background.

Okay.

They're trying to fix or beat adversaries because the adversaries don't look the same. They look different.

Yeah.

So we need defenders to look different as well. They gotta match that.

That is powerful. And I really love the work you are doing in to helping this, uh, industry be more diverse. This, this is just awesome. Now when we talk about education work though, it can be incredibly rewarding. That is true. You just gave two examples, I think, that would give you a lot of satisfaction and fulfillment better than any paycheck. However, it can be very exhausting as well. So how did you deal with burnout and staying motivated when the system felt frustrating or slow to change?

The first word that comes to mind is intentional. A lot of people notice this a lot lately. I've used the word intentional a lot in my writing, and I have to be intentional about protecting my peace. And that's something that I'm still learning. I'm still working at. And what's kept me anchored was going back to the data and saying, okay, I've impacted these people's lives. I've taken care of them. Now it's time to take care of myself and protect my weekends and do something new, do something different. Rest. It's okay to rest. I know sometimes for a lot of us, we're so used to working, working, working that when we finally get to that short weekend that we have, we feel like if we lay, lay around and do nothing, wow, we've just wasted our weekend. But that's not true. You've actually conquered your weekend because you used it intentionally to, to relax and recharge and re-energize. Because you can never pour from an empty cup, so you have to find ways to to fill yourself up in order to let others fill you as well.

That is powerful.

Wow.

So tell us about the work you do with SANS and HBCU Cyber Academy. That is so fascinating. Why, uh, did it matter so much to you?

The HBCU, uh, Cyber Academy was really important primarily because, as you know, Cybersecurity has a diversity problem. Yes, it is not a pipeline problem. It is a door problem. People are not opening doors. And a lot of people didn't realize— so a lot of people have never heard of historically Black colleges and universities, depending on where you're from, or they're not very familiar with them. But they are graduating brilliant students, and the cyber world wasn't reaching them. And I wanted to change that. So with me co-founding the Academy, it allowed us to create a direct on-ramp to really build real relationships with these HBCU campuses, with the talent, and kind of merge and be that bridge for HBCU talent in the cyber industry. Because without that, then we're just leaving a lot of talent unseen, ignored. On the side. And we need all the talent that we can get to fill these gaps because we have— we don't have a talent gap, we have the talent. You just need to open the door and be willing to invest in the talent that exists.

That's really powerful because I've been in Silicon Valley for what, about 12 years now? And there are some companies here, they only hire students from Berkeley or from Stanford or from specific schools, which, you know, they all look the same, usually white, male. And like, I remember when I came here in 2014, there was an ad about a woman software engineer, a software developer, and a lot of white folks here just went crazy. They're like, no, these people do not exist. I'm like, what? I'm like, wow, this is crazy. Now there's been a lot of changes since then, but again, not as much change as I was hoping for, but it is getting better. And I think the work that you do definitely makes a big, big difference. So from your perspective, working at SANS Technology Institute, what skills should the next generation of cybersecurity professionals be developing right now, especially knowing that artificial intelligence is pretty much disrupting every industry out there? What, what do you think is going to be important?

Especially because AI has come into the fold and kind of taken over, one of the first things I would say is having that technical fluency as your foundation. So just understanding baseline networks, threat analysis, how to think like an attacker, because you have to put yourself in that mindset, kind of like an actor put themselves inside of the character that they're portraying. Um, but I also argue that communication is also a skill that actually separates a good cyber professional, um, from great ones. Because you need to have the ability to translate complex risk into language that I can understand. I'm executive policymakers, everyday people can understand, which I feel like is very rare, but it's really valuable in this field. And then also be very curious. Like, don't ever stop wanting to learn because the people who thrive are the ones who are genuinely fascinated by the problem and also committed to staying a student always. Another thing I'll leave them with is to get involved in the community, whether that's conferences, yes. Organizations, mentorship networks, whole nine, because cybersecurity is a team sport. It's like basketball. You need everybody.

That is so powerful. Normally, I reserve this toward the end. But somebody watching right now, Stalin is asking, What is the best way to contact you about scholarship opportunity at the SANS Institute?

I would say you can reach out to me on LinkedIn. I also encourage you all to, to go to sans.org/cyber-academy, and that will also show you all the different academy programs that we have that are scholarship-based. And then if you're more interested going the college route, then we have sans.edu. So we have undergraduate programs and graduate programs. And so there's a lot of different options and avenues for those who are interested in opportunities at SANS to go, whether they are looking for the free route, which I don't blame you, or you're looking for the educational route where you can earn some credit, uh, and a degree with it.

Wow, that is really, really powerful. Yeah, it's the other thing I see in cybersecurity sometimes. We have a lot of resources, but people just don't know where to access those resources. So thank you again for being on this podcast. I have potentially 65,000 people who will be listening to you. And again, my focus here is really on the next generation of leaders, both in cyber technology and then in the military as well. So I am so glad you are one of our master teachers today. So let me ask you this. You were elected, uh, as the youngest council member in your city's history.

Wow.

How does public service connect to everything you've done before?

I would say it's honestly the same work, it's just on a different scale, um, to me, honestly. As an advisor, I could change the trajectory of one student's life. And as a council member, I can change the policies and systems that affect hundreds, if not thousands of lives. So serving my community isn't a departure from my career. It's more of a fuller expression of who I am as a whole person. So it's like taking different aspects of who I am and putting it into to one package.

That is really quite powerful. And I also like the agency because most people, what they would do, they would just complain, complain, complain, complain, complain. But you actually did something about those complaints and you are positively changing things for people in your community. That is so inspirational. Now, I can tell that leadership in government can be quite different from leadership in education or industry. I guess we have that in common. I've been in the Navy for 21 years now, but I've also started my career at University of Alabama, higher ed, and then the last 12 years in Silicon Valley, I take. But what lesson from your work with student and cybersecurity program do you think you're going to be able to bring into this new public service that's going to be relevant in your leadership?

I would say the biggest lesson is how, um, pulling from education in a sense of, so people don't care how much you know until they know that you care.

Yes.

And how much you care. So that's something that I learned early on, not only in education, but I learn every day in public service.

Maya Angelou. Yeah.

Yes. Because, you know, in advising, you can have every resource. We just talked about resources, right? So you have every resource in the world available to a student. But like you said, But if they don't trust you, it'll never land. And government is the exact same. Like, the most important, like, infrastructure a public servant could have is to build trust. And that's something that I actually ran on, is transparency, consistency, and trust and communication. Because people want to know not only that they can trust you, but that you have their best interests at heart. And the best way to do that is to be consistent with your words, consistent with your actions, and to always ask questions and to be on the same page with what their needs are while also kind of juggling the, the policies and rules and laws around what you can and can't do. So being very strategic and trying to marry both worlds. And then I also bring in a systems mindset where You know, education has always taught me to look upstream, to ask not just why is the student struggling, but what about the system that produced this outcome in the first place? So that's the lens that I look at, and I feel like local governments is missing.

Yes.

And what's needed, you have to look at the bigger picture, but also the details, like what systems were put in place unintentionally or intentionally to create this outcome in the first place, and how can we reverse it or fix it or dismantle it?

That's really powerful because you are looking at the tree but you don't want to overlook the forest too. So let's think about young people who might be listening to you right now, and I am really quite concerned about the next generation of leaders in cybersecurity and the military, tech in general, but really across any industry. When young people look at politics today, they may feel disconnected, right? What would you say to a young leader who wants to serve their community but they don't know where to start?

Something that I've learned along the way, and that's really critical, especially here in Georgia, is start local. Start right now. Um, you don't need a title to serve, and the most consequential leadership, um, often happens before you even get a title. So you're pretty much building your foundation before anyone gives you a title or you earn a title. So it's always important that you show up to your city council meetings, that you join the board, that you volunteer for a campaign or nonprofit that's doing the work that you actually believe in in your community, so that you can understand the behind the scenes, the foundation of it, and really get a good grasp on, okay, what is it we need? What are we doing currently to get what we need? Where are the gaps? And then you can pretty much build yourself up from there, but also learn how decisions actually get made at your neighborhood level. So understanding how the government works, who the gatekeepers are, because we do have gatekeepers.

Yes.

What the processes look like, uh, where the leverage points are, who can you leverage, and finding a mentor who's doing the work that you want to do in the future. And not just someone who has a fancy, you know, job title, because you can learn really quick that it's not always the person with the fanciest job title that you learn the most from. So always respect everyone regardless of their perceived work levels, whether that's the janitor, the janitor may have more gems to drop than the CEO. So wow, just be—

say that again. I love that.

Yes, the janitor will always have— they may have more gems than the CEO. So don't, you know, push anyone aside based off society's perceived notion of value based on title.

That's something my mother taught me. I started the show by saying I was really grateful for all of the women who've impacted my life, because many times even when people go for job interviews, especially at the senior leadership executive level, they treat everybody who's a director above so well, but then they kind of mistreat the lady at the desk, the secretary, the janitor, and all of that. But the truth is a lot of those people could actually have a huge impact on their future in that company. And that's why I like, I think that show has been so successful. What was it called? Where a billionaire or someone who's the owner of the company pretends to be an employee to see how people treat them.

Oh yeah, when they switch.

Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember the name of the show, but anyway, very, very popular show. So you really have to treat everybody with respect and with dignity, and that is so crucial for success. All right. Let me get into the final segment of our show where I try to get into your mindset and your head to kind of figure out the principles that have helped you be as successful as you are today. So one of the first questions I want to ask is what do you believe is one of the greatest lessons you have ever learned, whether it's in leadership, in life, or just in general?

I would say that, that access and excellence are not in competition.

Wow.

And I don't know if people caught that. So I'm going to repeat it one more time, then we're going to go into why I said that, that access and excellence are not in competition. They're partners. When you invest in people who have historically been locked out, you don't lower the bar. You raise the ceiling for everyone else.

Wow.

I learned that. I really learned that lesson that with every student who ever told me, you know, I don't think college is for me, or— but then they ended up walking across the stage.

Yes.

4 years later.

Wow.

Or that student who I told you about earlier, who was the first in their family to graduate from high school, and they didn't think they could do it, but they did it. And that leadership opens doors that compromise— that doesn't necessarily compromise standards. What it does is it reveals the capacity that was always there, but never given a real chance. That's why I like to say that access and excellence are, are not in competition, they're partners, because you have to marry the two to get the most out of anyone.

That is so powerful. Now you've been quite successful in many different verticals, right? Higher education, cybersecurity, and now in public governance. You've also been featured in a book which you didn't write, but The Other Side of the Firewall by Ryan Williams, which again, I want everybody to get a copy of that. The question I have for you then, Delisha, is Why do you think you've been so successful, especially based on your background? And let's face it, this world was really meant for white male, right? Not even white women were included at the beginning of this country. So why are you able to really go against all the odds and still succeed, you think? What's your secret?

I would say because I, I dare to do so. Like, I don't wait for permission to do anything. Um, I don't wait for permission for anyone to tell me who I am. I know who I am and I know whose I am. That's really important. Um, to me. And then also being true to myself. One of the easiest ways you can go off the rails is to stop being true to yourself and to do things that other people want you to do, or the things that you think other people want you to do. I've been there before. It is not a great route to go down.

Um, wow.

So always stay true to yourself, and what's for you is always going to be for you. And something that I love to say, um, to a lot of people, especially when they get rejection, because no one likes to be rejected, is I like to say, it is delayed but not denied.

Wow, that's powerful.

Yes, because you— just because you were denied doesn't mean that it's over. There's going to be another better door that's going to open for you. And I feel like me kind of taking that in and sticking to that has led to my success and led to me becoming better and avoiding the burnout that I subjected myself to early on in my career.

That is so powerful. And talking about burnout, because you are doing a lot, what kinds of things do you do to kind of recharge?

One of the things I love to do is I try to protect my weekends, like I said earlier. So I'll go watch, catch up on aimless reality TV. I'm a reality TV junkie, so that's like a way to kind of take a break from reality reality. But I also love to, to travel, to try new things, whether that's new cooking. I love cooking and baking. So if I find a recipe, then I'll try to go bake or make macaroons or cake or something. One thing that I plan on doing that you all can kind of hold me to is I plan on doing something new each month. And one of the first things that I want to do is go to a DJing class. So you all can hold me to that. So each month I want to continue learning and just do something different and have something to look forward to on the weekends.

Powerful. Now I know leaders are learners. What are you learning these days?

Oh, the city council stuff, like all the ordinances.

Yes.

Laws, the rules, the people. Um, and they also have a lot of the learning.

Yeah. They also have a specific protocol of how they start the meetings, how they call it. Yes.

Robert's Rule of Order. Yeah. All that fancy stuff. Training.

Wonderful. Wow. Yeah. You've got your hands full for sure. Now we've talked a lot about your successes. What about failure? How has failure shaped your life?

I really had to learn, um, to take failure on the chin. One of my greatest fears was failure. A little bit of it still exists, but I fight it every day. Um, I used to think that failure meant I was final. Yeah, I think failure was final. Um, that it meant it was something wrong with me as a person, as a human being.

Um, yes.

Or if I failed that one thing, that mean I failed at everything. So I was kind of having that all-or-nothing mindset, which is really good to have, which also can lead to burnout. Um, so I kind of had to rewire my brain, uh, and, and say, okay, Is it really that? Is the world ending? Did you die? Did you hurt anyone? So just kind of ask those realistic questions to kind of do a real check with yourself to be like, you didn't die, no one died, you didn't hurt anyone on purpose. Yes, everyone is okay. You live to fight another day. You always have the next day that you give your best. So I've kind of rewired that to say, did I give it my best. I didn't say that I give 100%. Yes, you can split 100% over the course of the week and get to 100%. Did I give it my best from the capabilities that I had and what I had to give, um, in that day and time? So that's how I've kind of approached failure. Like, it was once this finite, all or nothing, worst thing in the world for me. I was over— I'm the worst, I'm horrible— to changing my mindset and my mental to say No, that's not true. That's a lie.

Yes.

Wow, that is not true, you know. And speaking life into yourself, because it's really easy for us to criticize ourselves. We're our own worst critics, but it's even harder for us to love ourselves and say, no, you're the best. No, you're goofy. And not take ourselves too serious.

Yes. Wow. We have our first question from the live audience, and Daniel Young, who's a very active member of our tribe here, he says, for first generation and HBCU students who feel called to cyber and missing themselves as leaders. What practical move this semester, uh, what practical move this semester start architecting their own path beyond applying for another program? Uh, so I guess it is, is asking, uh, for the HBCU students. So these, these are Black students, uh, minority, they want to get into cyber, but they have what you mentioned earlier, right? It's like, uh I feel like an imposter, right? Imposter syndrome. What do you advise them to do in order to push forward to really get to achieve what they believe may not be achievable?

Yes. For Daniel, one of the first things that I ask you and challenge you to do is to, well, you're already taking the great step, which is you're watching this, you're already following Coach BZ. Um, and the next thing you need to do is continue to surround yourselves, build your network around people that look like you, that make you feel good, and who are already doing the things that you wish to see yourself doing. That's the first thing, because by doing that first, you then kind of tweak your own ecosystem to only show you things that are going to get you closer to making that pivot into cybersecurity. Once you do that, the next thing I'm going to challenge you to do, um, is to put your research hat on and start looking rather into one of our SANS college programs that you can, you know, transfer over to SANS. We'll welcome you, um, and get that hands-on training and certifications because we do take college credit. Um, or you can look into one of our academy programs, you know, you could take a break, come into one of our academy programs and learn cybersecurity. And then the third thing I'm going to challenge you to do is as you're building your ecosystem of support, look into different cybersecurity-focused organizations. You have Blacks in Cybersecurity, you have Black Girls Hack— it's open to men too and children. Uh, you have Professor Roger White's Cyber Lounge, him and Kevin over there, they're amazing, all on LinkedIn. So look into those different organizations, join them, become part of their mentorship plan or their study opportunities. And then also look into some cybersecurity certifications as well, and get your feet wet. So it's all about kind of creating your own learning plan for yourself. But definitely start with building your ecosystem with your network, and then researching and kind of building your, your exit plan into cybersecurity.

Wow, very, very great advice. Now, if You could choose 3 people. They could be anyone alive, dead, or even fictitious characters. Who would you choose to have dinner with and why?

Definitely Donna Staley. Um, she'll be at my table, um, primarily because, uh, so she wrote a book called In a Common Favor, which is one of my favorite books that I recommend that everyone checks out. Um, but she's pretty much—

what is the name of the book again?

It is called Uncommon Favor.

Uncommon Favor. Got it.

Don Staley. And pretty much her philosophy is the idea that excellence is not accidental. It's actually built through intentional work. So that word intentional again. Yeah, it's just, you know, work, discipline, um, and unwavering belief, um, that you're working towards— that what you're working towards is already yours, pretty much, if you're willing to earn it. Um, so I would love to sit with her and pick her brain and just kind of learn how she's kind of overcome all the different things to become— yes, just an amazing woman, but also amazing basketball coach for South Carolina.

Wow.

Another person would be Asia Wilson. So kind of keep with the theme here with South Carolina. Um, she represents something deeply personal to me because she speaks to the power of owning your story. So even the parts that feel like setbacks. So for example, she has dyslexia. She didn't hide the fact that she has dyslexia. She claimed it and she worked through it and became the most dominant GOAT. She's my GOAT basketball player, not only in women's basketball, but just in basketball, period. And she did it coming from a small town like me, which tells me that it's not where you start. It's where you can go.

That's powerful. Before you said the third person, since you are into basketball, okay, the true GOAT, LeBron James or MJ, who is it?

I'm gonna go with LeBron. I know a lot of people are MJ. Oh no, I think it's a generational thing.

I think, yeah, it is.

I think generationally some people say Mike. Yeah, just other generations say LeBron, but LeBron's broken a lot of Wow, just, just like, like you, my daughter mistakenly believe it's LeBron, but it's MJ.

That's, that's a fact in life, my goodness. Okay, now I will need to end the show. Okay, that's it, goodbye. All right, give us your, your third person. That's, that's done.

Non-basketball related, but more, um, related to me moving into public service, is Fannie Lou Hamer. Um, she, she would probably anchor the table for me just based off legacy and fearlessness. Like, she doesn't always get her flowers that she deserves, and when people talk about civil rights and women's rights movements, they always leave her out, but she's like a really critical piece of that. And she's always advocated loudly, boldly, without apology for people, um, when no one else was speaking for them. So That's the type of courage that you don't ask for permission for. And that's the type of energy that I need at my table to kind of balance things out. Wow.

That is powerful. Now we also like to focus on reading here, and hopefully you are going to write, uh, a book, but you were featured in this book. So tell us why our audience should purchase this one, The Other Side of the Firewall, the real life story of movers and shakers and glass ceiling Breakers in Cybersecurity, and you are one of them. So why should we read it?

Yes, shout out to Ryan Williams Sr. Um, this book is amazing primarily because we talked a little bit about diversity in the field. This book is the epitome of that because you literally get to hear from so many different people, women, men, young, old, in different areas of their career, pretty much giving you the game plan of where they were, how they were feeling, how they overcome failure, how they got to their success, but then also giving you some quick gems into how to make your pivot into cybersecurity and how to handle different challenges that you're going to encounter in the workforce. Um, so it's, it's a really well-rounded book with a lot of great gems. A lot of amazing people are also a part of the book, so I feel like it'd be a perfect way for you to kind of learn from other people in one area.

A lot of people, including Delicia Oro.

Yes. Congratulations. Thank you.

What about this one? Uh, New York Times bestseller, Uncommon Favor, Dawn Staley. Why should we read this one?

Yes. Um, so kind of how I said, spoke about earlier, is she talks about her journey from childhood to becoming a top-winning basketball coach. She talks a lot about, um, how your work ethic is really important into your success, and that talent alone won't always get you where you need to be. And I think that's really important for a lot of people. So anyone who's more sports-minded or a former athlete, you'll definitely connect with this but get what you need out of it from a leadership perspective.

Actually, since you are into sport, Why is sport, you think, kind of, uh, relatable to the work we do in cybersecurity? The things that you learn when you play sport, why, why does that matter, you think?

I would say the teamwork aspect. I mean, if you think about it from a basketball standpoint, just like in cybersecurity, you got to play defense. You're gonna have somebody on offense, right? You need somebody to rebound and catch the different you know, things that are going on. Um, so I think it kind of marries perfectly if you think about it from a sports mind, because you're gonna always— you're gonna need a coach, you need someone to do the play, you need the commentators who are your people who explain cybersecurity in plain terms. So it's just like a perfect ecosystem example of what cybersecurity is, and everyone is needed to function and to kind of push it forward.

So powerful. And also think you really learn a lot about leadership and influence with or without a title. So powerful. All right. Uh, we are almost running out of time. I can't believe this. Okay. Uh, let me ask you this. Is there maybe a song, a book, or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

Song, um, would be It's Working by William Murphy. It's a gospel song.

Yeah. Um, actually, he's in Atlanta, right? That's where, that's where you are. He has a church here.

Yes. Um, yeah, because the— so the song is about, uh, different seasons. So if you kind of listen to the lyrics, um, but it's, it just kind of declares that it's your season, uh, to shine, to grow, to be great in a sense. Um, and then another would be Al Green's Love and Happiness. Has to also be my soundtrack because joy is not a luxury in this work, it's a requirement. And you have to have a little bit of both to get through life. You need a little bit of love and a little bit of happiness.

Powerful.

Wow.

Yeah, I love that song by Pastor William Murphy. This is my season for grace, for favor. This is my season to reap what I have sown. And it says, y'all listen at this, see, I haven't been perfect, But I'm sure I've been faithful.

Wow.

That is powerful. Powerful. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. Okay. If you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

That I made people feel important and seen.

Wow. So if you had a magic wand and you could solve any problem in the world, what is the one problem you'd like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

That is so hard. Oh, there's a lot of things I would solve, but to choose one, um, which one is the most important, you think, problem that I want to solve for the world? Uh, I would say hunger, because it all kind of ties in together. And I feel like if you're hungry, you can't, can't do a lot. So if I could cure hunger where no one's hungry, they can at least get somewhere, you know, make it a little bit longer in life.

Yeah, I can't believe America, we have the wealthiest country that's ever been on the of the, of the world, but we still have children who sometimes go hungry every day. And if they don't get food at school, they're not going to be able to eat their next meal. And during the last government shutdown, we saw how many children in America were at risk of not eating at all. And I just cannot understand that. Wow. Okay, um, if you had the ear of every Black student in America from high school went to go to college and maybe get into the cybersecurity field, what would you tell them in 60 seconds what they should do? First thing they should do, let's say, tomorrow morning.

The first thing they should do tomorrow morning is look themselves in the mirror and say, I'm beautiful, I am loved, I'm amazing, and I'm gonna have the best day ever.

Ever. Yeah, that's reminding me of Jesse Jackson. I am somebody.

Yes.

Wow, powerful, powerful. Thank you. Okay, we are coming to the end of the show. I could talk to you for hours and hours, but I do need to bring this plane down. So as we get toward the end, what can my audience do to give value back to you?

Honestly, share all the different resources that I push out, all the different opportunities Um, if you're— whether you're in Georgia or not, there's a Georgia, uh, STEM Day happening Friday. It's free, it's virtual. So if you see that on my page, register, join, check it out. I'll be moderating a panel.

Um, nice.

And then also feel free to connect. I'm not going to give you all the answers, I'm not going to do the work for you, but I will point you in the right direction.

Wow, powerful. All right, is there a question I should have asked you, Delicia, I didn't get a chance to ask?

I don't feel like you asked a lot of the good questions.

Um, all right, so the question I have for you then, um, if you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self, right, standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had in education, cybersecurity, and now in public government, what would you say to 17-year-old Delicia Oro?

I would tell her to speak loudly, speak boldly, speak confidently, and don't ever sell yourself short or hide. Wow, the greatness that's in you.

That's powerful. Wow, that is very, very powerful. Thank you for sharing that. So, uh, Now to end the show, this is going to take just a couple of minutes. We're going to do what I call the light lightning round. So don't take too long to think. First thing that comes out of your mind, I want to hear it. So rapid, rapid fire. What is one word that defines great leadership? One word.

One word that defines great leadership? Action.

Action. Okay. Morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

Say that again. Sorry.

Morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

Meditation.

All right. A book or a quote that changed your life?

Protecting My Peace by Trent Shelton.

Who inspires you most today?

Definitely my mom. Good.

What is a leadership habit you refuse to compromise on?

Honestly, it's going to be consistency.

And what is a question every leader should ask themselves frequently?

How can I be better?

Very good. So what did you want to be when you were a kid?

I wanted to play basketball but also produce music.

Wow, okay. Did you play basketball in school? Maybe?

Yes, I played basketball from from 8.

Okay, so I didn't play, but I did watch, especially the greatest of all time, and his name is— all right, but really, for, for me, it doesn't really matter which sport it is. If I see professional people who play it at a very high level, it becomes very enjoyable. Yeah, I would give LeBron James his— yeah, I guess he needs to get his flowers too, although I think he's a walker. I believe he is an absolute walker. LeBron James is. You may not believe me, but I have footage to prove it. But, uh, we're gonna have to argue another time. Okay, what are 3 adjectives describing you as a child?

As a child, creative. 2 more.

Free adjective.

Oh, 3. Uh, yeah, creative, loving.

One more.

And talented.

What about as an adult?

As an adult, respectful, consistent, um, dependable.

Mm. What is something you are feeling optimistic about?

I'm feeling optimistic about my South Carolina Gamecocks, the women's.

Yes.

Getting back to the championship and getting revenge.

Hopefully they're going to be making as much money as the men soon. I don't know why in sport men make so much more money than women.

Yeah, women work so much harder.

Yeah, I know, it doesn't make any sense. No, like, I, I kind of joke many times, people who listen to me now know that, but I am really the only male in my home, right? A wife and two daughters. If it wasn't for our, you know, our pet, I would be the only male here. But I don't see why women can't get the same exact opportunities as men. I mean, this is crazy. This is 2026. We're like in the 21st century, for crying out loud. Anyway, all right, the very last question I have for you then is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today.

Collaboration.

Well, thank you so much, Delicia Oro. Thank you for being one of our master teachers today. And for me, it's really gratefulness. I am so grateful you took the time to come and speak with us. Really appreciate that. Thank you.

No, thank you. It's been a pleasure.

All right, everybody, this is one for the book. And again, if you would get a copy of the book that does feature Delicia, The Other Side of the Firewall: The Real-Life Stories of Movers, Shakers, and Glass Ceiling Breakers in Cybersecurity by Ryan Williams Sr. And this is it for now. And for those who listened to the first podcast earlier today, We talked about Black History Year, so you can follow that on the podcast or just on my feed on LinkedIn. And also whenever we're going to have a chance, we are going to continue our study on the Book of Proverbs, ancient wisdom and leadership lesson. Chapter 20 is going to be next. Again, this is not a religious study, but it's about how ancient wisdom and leadership lesson from more than 2,000 years ago are still relevant today. All right, that is all I have for you today. Thank you so much for watching. And I see you tomorrow. And tomorrow I am actually gonna have a very important interview with a Navy Admiral, and hopefully you are going to be here. Let me find the— okay, here, here it is. It's Admiral Ken Cowdine, and he's retired now, U.S. Navy. And you really do not want to miss this. I think it's going to be at 6:30 in in the morning, so 9:30 Eastern Time. So that's going to be Rear Admiral Kenneth Carrodine. He's a data governance advocate, strategic leader, a best-selling author. He's written two books now, Nuclear Dragon and General Quarters, thrillers, and he has the third one, Panther, that's going to be released this year. So we're going to be talking about when Admiral writes thrillers, strategy, leadership, and storytelling. That's going to be tomorrow in So look forward to that. All right. See you tomorrow morning. And thanks again for watching. Bye for now.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, Leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.