S5:E65🎙️ LIVE with SSgt Jo Peterson, USAF (Vet.) (Multi Tracks Audio)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell.

When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership.

Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today.

I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach B.

Hey, thanks so much for joining. I'm Jo Pedersen. I am the Chief Analyst at ClearTech Research, and I'm here on behalf of 843 Big Tech Report. Tech Byte, news you can use. Today we're talking XDR. What is it? XDR is extended detection and response, and it collects threat data from previously siloed security tools across an organization's technology stack for easier and faster investigation, threat hunting, and response. An XDR platform can collect security telemetry from endpoints, cloud workloads, network, email, and more. Gartner defines XDR as a unified security incident detection and response response platform that automatically collects and correlates data from multiple proprietary security components. With all this enriched threat data filtered and condensed into a single console, XDR enables security teams to rapidly and efficiently hunt and eliminate security threats across multiple domains from one unified solution. The global XDR market is projected to grow from $1.7 billion this year, 2023, to $8.8 billion by 2028. That's a 38.4% increase during the forecast period. XDR connects data from siloed security solutions so that they can work together to improve threat visibility and reduce the length of time required to identify and respond to an attack. XDR enables advanced forensic investigation and threat hunting capabilities across multiple domains from a single console. So here's a simple step-by-step of how XDR works. Number 1, it ingest, it ingest and normalizes volumes of data from the endpoints, cloud workloads, identity, email, network traffic, virtual containers, and more. Number 2, it detects, it parses and correlates data to automatically detect stealthy threats. With advanced artificial intelligence and machine learning. 3, it responds. Prioritize threat data by severity so that the threat hunters can quickly analyze and triage new events and automate investigation and response activities. So what are 3 benefits of XDR security? First, consolidated threat visibility. Second, hassle-free detections and investigation. Third, end-to-end orchestration and response. Thanks so much for joining.

All right, everyone, welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success podcast. We have a very special guest for you in the green room, but before I bring her on, let's do as is our custom, a moment of gratitude. This is where we take just a moment every time we meet to be grateful for something. So if you would maybe close your eyes, take your place in your happy place and think about one thing you are grateful for right now. And I think today I am really grateful for the weather. Now, technically it's still winter, but in the Bay Area we're going to have temperature up to like 80 degrees. That's just unbelievable. I know on the East Coast sometimes it It's very, very, very cold and the weather isn't so nice, but I am just so grateful to live in a place where it's pretty much good weather throughout the entire year. So let us know where you are joining us from, what city, what state, and if you are outside of the US, which country. And also let us know what you are grateful for. And if you have a question for my guest, type it in the comment. Alright, let me see if I can properly introduce our guest today. Again, it's really a great honor and privilege to be speaking to Staff Sergeant Jo Peterson, US Air Force veteran. She's the CIO at Clarify360, founder and chief analyst at ClearTech Research, and she has deep expertise in cloud, cybersecurity, cybersecurity and AI security. With over 3 decades of experience, Drew has worked alongside CIOs and CISOs across industries, helping organizations simplify complexity, strengthening security, and aligning technology with mission outcome. She's also a globally recognized top voice in tech, advisor to major tech leaders like AWS, Microsoft, Google, IBM, and, uh, she's a member of the Forbes Technology Council. Advisory board and Cloud Security Alliance AI Safety Leadership Council. She's the co-founder of Cloud Girls, Advancing Women in Cloud and Emerging Tech. Jo is not just a technologist, but she is a translator of complexity into clarity. So ladies and gentlemen, without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, Jo Pedersen.

Hi.

Good morning, Jo. How are you doing today?

Thank you so much for having me visit with you today.

Absolutely, absolutely. We are really thrilled and honored and privileged to have you today. It is really incredible. I am seeing more and more women in cybersecurity now than I've ever seen in my entire career. When I first started doing cybersecurity full-time, what, 21 years ago, not many women were in this wonderful, wonderful workforce. I think it's about 25% now, so we are getting better. In America, there are more women than men, but eventually, we will get there. But you are just such a great inspiration. So, to get started, what is maybe one thing you are grateful for today?

Oh my gosh. I am grateful for good health.

Yes.

It just, foundationally, it is what helps you move along. You kind of take your health for granted. And then something goes sideways and you realize how much it matters in your daily life. So that's what I'd say.

That is so true. Health doesn't mean anything until you are no longer healthy.

That's true.

That's for sure.

Then that's the only thing you can think about. What about something about you that most people may not know?

Oh my gosh. What they might not know. I love interior design. I am inspired by it, and I think that a beautiful room is a reflection. You, you know, like our office, we spend so many hours a day in our office. Why not make it beautiful? Why not make it a place with flowers and pictures of your family and The books that you love and admire, right? Surround yourself with the things that fill you. So, yeah.

That is so, so powerful. Now, most people may not know, I mentioned in the intro, so you were a tech sergeant in the most powerful United States Air Force. How did you get to join the military?

You know, I felt like I had a scholarship to college and I had a really important person in my family pass, and I thought, I need, I need to do something that has a purpose. I need to do something that matters. And so I turned 18 and I joined the military. Yeah, that's what happened.

And the other thing we have in common is you were part of the intelligence community while in the Air Force. I am in information warfare community now, which includes intel. So we're part of the IC as well. So how did you go from the military to becoming a tech CIO?

Well, you know, just probably like you, with many years of seasoning. It's a journey, right? Um, it is a journey, but if I could first say thank you to the men and women in our armed services, right? Many of them are very young and serving far away from their families and friends, and I think it takes bravery and courage to do that.

Yes.

Um, so thank you all for your service.

Um, especially those who are serving in a combat zone, it's special courage to do so.

Special courage, right? So I am so grateful for my time in the Air Force. My time in the Air Force taught me so many foundational lessons that have served me later in life, like really disciplined work ethic, leadership skills, um, the ability to adapt quickly. Um, I had early access to tech, which I obviously fell in love with. And after the military, I was lucky enough to to get in with a telco as a pre-sales engineer. So I held various roles across two large telcos for over half of my career, and then I stepped into a consulting role to build a business unit for colocation and cloud in 2009. Um, yeah, so that landed me a director role, and then I moved into a VP role, and I got really focused on because I was focused on cloud, I got super focused on cloud security. Back in the early days, we were building cloud workloads without any security around them. And I'm like, wait, this doesn't make sense. What are we doing, right? So I kind of dug in and learned security and I kind of fell in love with security. So, you know, the universe is sometimes a strange place. And the first company that I was at We broke off in 2016 to form Clarify, and then the gentleman that owns Clarify bought the original company. Wow. So he granted me the title of CIO in December of '25, and I'm so honored. And it's been just a really amazing ride.

And it's really quite an outstanding career you have had so far. So, how has your leadership style kind of evolved from your early engineering days to advising CIOs and CISOs today?

You know, I think that I was really lucky as a pre-sales engineer to have a chance to meet all kinds of different customers. It was very, it was very broad. We didn't have any vertical specialization at that time. We were rolling old school. And I, you know, I got to see the good and the kind of the bad, and I got to see how forward leaders thought, and I got to see how maybe not so forward leaders thought. And that really shaped the way I approach, you know, leading a team.

Yeah, and for the Ford leaders you really had the privilege to be working with, what do you think are some of the characteristics that really separates them from the rest?

They have vision. I think that vision is that thing, right? And they're able to see forward. And I know that, look, budget is a constraint. I know that sometimes the board is a constraint. I know that other leadership is sometimes a constraint. But what I find is that the people that have vision and are forward-thinking don't stay in situations where they're stagnant for very long. They move on. Because these people are what I aspire to be and what I hope to be, a lifelong learner.

Hmm, powerful.

Yeah, so that's what I think.

Yeah, I guess times have truly changed. You know, I guess when my parents were around, if you get to college, you feel yourself lucky and you never have to open another book in your life, really. You could be working for a single company for, I don't know, 20, 25 years, get the gold watch and retire, but those days are long gone and they're gone. And you have to keep learning.

We're not only just doing our clients a service, but keeping on learning, I think we're doing ourselves a service.

Yes, yes. Wow, powerful. And that's really another benefit I really love in the military, if you can take advantage of it. It's just the opportunities you have to learn, to get degrees, certification and all of that, the military would pay for if you just take the time. Incredible. Now, in cybersecurity and cloud, credibility matters, right? It's critical. It's quite important. How do leaders earn trust in highly technical environments like you are in?

I love that question. I think we earn trust by demonstrating competence, by maintaining transparency, by showing vulnerability and by prioritizing psychological safety. So trust in these environments is an operational requirement, not a soft skill. And what happens is you get faster collaboration if folks trust you. You get better productivity. You get increased innovation. I think that when a new leader comes in, especially, Everybody's not sure of his or her skill set, right? And I think the technical teams in particular— engineers are tough. They're smart and they're tough. Come on. Particularly the young ones. I don't know. And they're skeptical of leaders who lack technical depth. They will write you off quick if you can't keep up with them. So I think that you need to show your work. You need to prove to them that you have a place, you know, on their team and that you understand the fundamentals and you can work through complex problems rather than just giving orders. And I think that, you know, if you earn trust early, it's because you're focused on tangible technical wins that everybody can be a part of, such as maybe fixing some longtime tool issue, right? And then I think that technical teams operate on data and provable systems. So leaders build trust by aligning decisions with data rather than intuition.

Wow, powerful. Now, we kind of said earlier, we talked in the green room as well, it looks like especially in cybersecurity, it's not as diverse as it should be, but it's definitely more diverse than it used to be. 20 years ago. For the women who are listening now, it's Women's History Month anyway. If you had their ears, let's say, for the next 1 to 2 minutes, what would you tell them, especially young women who are thinking about getting into the cybersecurity field? What would you tell them they kind of need to focus on or really start doing, let's say, tomorrow?

Well, I'm going to say something a little controversial here.

That's right.

And, you know, Ladies, tech pays, okay? That's what I'm going to tell you. Like, other careers are great, they're great, but tech pays, and it is your responsibility to create your own financial freedom. That said, it's interesting and it's always changing. So yes, You know, you're not going to be bored. You're never going to be bored. You think it's going to be boring. It's not. It's just the opposite of boring, right? It's exciting. It's the thing I would tell you is every company, if you're coming into a technology role, spend the time. I don't care what your job is. To get a hyperscaler certification, a basic one, right? There's things that people won't tell you. There's a very large consulting firm. I won't say who they are. I'm friends with one of their vice presidents. And she said, when we look at candidates from college and they haven't taken the time to get a, whether it be AWS or Azure or Google cert, a basic cert, we don't even consider them for the role. Wow, we don't even consider them. So these companies expect you to come to the table with a basic knowledge, no matter your area of expertise in tech, because, because the cloud is powerful, and you need to understand how it basically works. So that's my advice.

Powerful, powerful. Yeah, I guess it also shows, you know, when you spend extra time and a little bit of money pursuing, you know, And the third, it shows that you are really willing to learn and you can learn that, that motivation, that reliance. And yeah, some employers like to see that for sure. But now, what, what about maybe young ladies who are serving in the military right now, enlisted or officer, transitioning into the civilian world? That could be quite daunting for a lot of service members, right? And look, looking back at your own service, what mindset or maybe skill would you say translates best and what gaps should they prepare for?

Yeah, I think that's a great question. So the tech industry values the mission-first mindset that military folks bring, and that translates well to cybersecurity, IT ops, cloud management, and project management, um, because that person that is coming from having just served is more than likely leveraging a combination of really high-pressure problem-solving skills, rapid adaptability, and disciplined teamwork. So I'm interviewing somebody from the military and I know they know how to take orders. I know they know how to fit into a team, right? I know those things. But, you know, back to the certs thing, get your certs, go get your certs. It matters, right? Something, show me that you care and that you're trying. And then I think that the other thing is on your resume, transfer— translate military to civilian speak because people that are not— haven't come from a military background don't know what a platoon commander is. Better to say something like, oh, I managed a 30-person team delivering ops. They'll get that, but they're not going to know what a platoon commander is. So, make it easy for them to like you and hire you.

Wow, I love that. Very, very great advice. Let's talk a little about cloud cybersecurity and AI leadership. So, if we are trying to kind of cut through the noise, there is a lot of hype about AI and cloud, especially AI these last couple of days. How do leaders kind of separate signal from noise?

I think that's a great question. I think that to separate—

oh, by the way, you're going to be saying that over and over again, so we can just skip it so I can have more time talking to you.

Okay, do you want me to tackle this question?

No, yeah, no, I was just kidding, but it worked, you laughed. So yeah, how do you separate the signal from the noise, especially with AI?

I think that Leaders have to focus on tangible business value always, forever, right? As an engineer, and you know this is true, we love shiny things. We love them.

We love them.

We love tools. We love to play with tools. We love to solve problems. We love shiny things. But you've got to go, wait a second. What value is this giving me? You know, can I get some measurable ROI?

Out of this.

The signal is defined by solutions that embed into daily workflows, that solve specific problems, that improve over time. The noise consists of, you know, something performative and unintegrated, right? So that's the thing we have to stay away from. And I know that it's like catnip.

Yes, yes. That is quite powerful. What about maybe one cybersecurity or AI risk that most organizations tend to underestimate right now?

Yeah, I think AI enters the front door of most organizations as an agent or bot of some sort. That's kind of what everybody's playing with right now. Now, don't get me wrong, there's folks that are way more advanced than that.. But for folks just sort of kicking the tires, that's what they're doing. So what I think the thing that can bite you is that you're going to fail to secure agentic AI because your focus is on, you know, chatbot-style data leaks rather than the risks of high-speed decision-making agents. So, you know, oversights happen with a lack of visibility into the agent's action. They happen with overprivileged machine identities. They happen with ineffective security controls. I think, you know, I mean, a little bit of data here. Non-human identities, agents, bots, outnumber human identities by up to 80 to 1. Oftentimes they have excessive read-all permissions that traditional IAM tools cannot manage, right? So they're playing, they're playing in a different field. And I think the other thing is, y'all, if you don't have DLP, get it. Data loss prevention relies on human-like actions like emailing a file, but agents bypass this by using APIs to exfiltrate data. And it doesn't trigger standard alerts. So I think that's what's happening too, right? So yeah, I think, I think Agentic AI is gonna bite you if you're not prepared for it, man.

And one thing with AI is it changes so quickly, right? Uh, it's really kind of tough sometimes to just keep up, but, uh, that is so important. Thank you for for sharing that. Uh, when you are advising CIOs and CISOs, what are kind of some of the top 2 to 3 conversations happening in boardrooms today?

You know, it's so interesting. It's really changed and matured. So if I had to think about a 2026 CISO's agenda, I'm going to do 3 things. I'm going to protect, I'm going to withstand, and I'm going to prove. And what I mean by that is I'm going to protect by reducing the likelihood of material incidents. I'm going to withstand by ensuring operational continuity through resilience. And I'm going to prove by providing continuous evidence of control effectiveness. That's— those are the things that I am going to be talking to my board about. Like, like, It's ransomware, it might just happen. Okay, but what happens right afterwards? Can we still communicate? Do we have AD resilience? Oh no, we don't have any AD resilience. That's a problem. And you need to tell your, your, your board, listen, this might happen to us. But we have to make sure that we have to all agree What are the critical things that we need to bring up after this happens and how do we make that work?

Wow.

So I think the conversation has shifted from technical tactical updates to strategic business resilience.

Hmm. I like that she says that strategic business resilience because it looks like, you know, for 21 years or so I've been doing cybersecurity full-time, things have changed quite a bit, right? Security, we used to be known as the department of no, no, in our own silo doing our own thing. But now I see security being really aligned with the business more and more, enabling the business. Now there's always a little bit of a friction, right, between innovation and security. So how can organization maintain innovation velocity without compromising on their security, you think?

So I think that Secure by design is really important. It's an approach that embeds security into the dev lifecycle. It automates compliance. It fosters this culture of shared responsibility. I think the idea is to shift security from a late-stage roadblock, like you said, the department of no, to an early-stage enabler. And I think we need to think about guardrails instead of gates. And if we think about, well, what does that look like practically? We start with asset inventory and vulnerability management. You really can't see what you can't— you can't manage what you can't see.

Yes.

I think you need to implement centralized secrets management before your sprawl becomes really unmanageable. Right? I mean, how many agents do you have?

Yes.

What are their names? Um, you need to build automation workflows, right? And then you need to create feedback loops. So between security outcomes and business metrics, are you aligning those things? If you think about it, you know, AI is really the wild card. And as organizations rush to implement AI capabilities, the stakes become even higher.

Yes.

So I think that that's what we should be thinking about.

Thank you. Thanks so much for sharing. Quite insightful. We really live in a very exciting world right now. So much is happening. And also, I think that what that means is for people who are just starting into this wonderful career, you said tech pays, it really, really does. And I would like to see more minority people of color and women to get into this because it's really, you know, one of the jobs of the future. Even with AI, with all of the changes happening, we have some level of job security because they will always need people with our skill sets to kind of be there and help the organization move forward in a safe and secure way. So I guess one question I have for you is, For someone who's kind of on the fence, they may feel like, I don't feel like I have what it takes, I don't see myself as a technical person. Is there still room for them, you think, in cybersecurity?

Oh, absolutely, because, you know, you don't have to be particularly technical to do every job in cybersecurity. Right? You, you could be a project manager that maybe is keeping the team aligned with the goals that they've set out for, for the year. Maybe helping onboard new vendors. Like, there's all kinds of things that you can do that require basic soft skills, basic project management skills that you don't have to know a lot about the tech or be deeply rooted in the tech. And the nice thing is what I found in this community is they're so inclusive. Everybody's willing to help you. It's such a nice thing, right? If you knock on someone's door and say, you know, I can't figure this out, can you spend 15 minutes with me and help me connect the dots? They generally will. It's really a warm community.

I like that you said connect the dots because my next question is, you know, you describe yourself as someone who does connect the dots. What does that look like in practice?

Oh man. So a lot of the work that I do is with the holdings of private equity post-M&A. And these are people that their company is getting bought because maybe they have a really cool product and they need an infusion of cash. There's some value that they have that the private equity sees right in them. But they may not have had a lot of money or a lot of, um, the, you know, the talent to get things done. And so it's really important for me to be able to map business outcomes and, and understand business pain points.

Yes.

And not just try to get a solution in place. I've got to understand what's going on, right? I've got to be able to Because if you know anything about private equity, you know that the folks that run it are not tech people, they're money people.

Yes. Yes.

So they really, they really want to understand, why do I need to spend this money?

What's this?

What's this?

And so I had to really change my language and change how I— because we tend to, as a community, talk tech. We have acronyms for everything, you know, it won't mean anything to anybody else. And we all understand it. And so we all, you know, have our own little happy language. Forget, you know, we leave other people in the dust because we talk tech. And the trick is to just talk business, right? So if a business goal is to increase customer retention, you want to think about that and help them translate it to a tech project, like maybe implementing a CRM.

Yes.

With AI-powered personalization, right? And then from that, say, okay, now here's how we can develop a roadmap. And here's some of the short-term wins. And here's some of the long-term modernization gains. But you're not going to do that and get their attention unless you speak to what they want to do, which is increase customer retention. Yes, that would be right. I think that's something.

That is really powerful because my last job as a CISO, I would spend about 25% of my time on sales call because I was trying to really add value, right? Because most of the senior executive in the organization, yeah, cybersecurity is like a cost center. You guys cost us a lot of money. You do a bunch of things we think is important, but we don't really see the value, right? But when you can say, hey, I actually helped you close on these big logos and with 10 customers and all of that, that they really get very, very excited about that. So that's really great advice. Thank you for sharing. Now let's talk about your influence, thought leadership, and personal brand, because you've built a very strong voice across LinkedIn, YouTube, and the industry. How did you intentionally, or maybe it was intentional, grow your influence to such a point?

You know, here's the thing. I got really lucky and I met some folks. I'm going to call out two people that I really admire, Evan Kirstel and Tamara McCleary. Over 10 years ago on Twitter, I had no idea what I was doing. None. And these powerhouses taught me the power of finding a niche you're passionate about and focusing on that. And that, you know, and they taught me about the power of consistency, the power of valuable content, and then engaging authentically with your network. So I think that, gosh, I think that we all arrive in some sort of package. And, you know, I used to try to not be who I am, which is a nerdy girl. And I decided that I just needed to be who I was, which was a nerdy girl. And, and my tribe would find me. Yes, that's what's happened.

Well, that's tough, because the next question I was going to ask you is, how do you stay authentic? But I guess you just answered that, especially when you operate at such a high level. Of visibility and influence like you do.

You've just got to be who you are. You know that, Bizzy. Yes, you just, you know, either folks, folks are going to have an opinion about you, and the fact is that, you know, you're not going to change that. Yes, whether they like you or they don't like you, whether they receive what you're saying or don't receive what you're saying, you just have to try to be authentic and kind.

Wow, powerful. Because you have over like 20,000 people, for example, following you on LinkedIn. That's a lot of people. So if you are just thinking about getting in this field, maybe just getting out of college and you want to eventually become a thought leader, maybe you only have, I don't know, a couple of hundred people following you for now. What would you advise them to do? Where should they start?

Pick a niche that you like, pick something that you like. Like, I really got into cloud security, I really found that interesting, and now I'm finding AI security so interesting. People are smart, they can feel your passion, they can feel if you like something and you, you're enjoying talking about it. Um, you know, and I, I mean, I don't know if you've ever looked at my LinkedIn feed or not, but I post cat videos with a cybersecurity twist. And so I try to use humor to teach what is a really— can be a really dry, hard, boring subject, right?

Yes.

Because I want people to be able to relate to it. I would tell them, be consistent, post daily. And people— I think that people worry about So between LinkedIn and Twitter, I have about 100,000 followers and they worry about what to say. I think that the people who, you know, they're nervous and, and the thing is that it does take a level of bravery to stick yourself out there.

Yes.

And you can get started by posting an article from a respected industry publication, for example, and just commenting on it.

Yes.

Give your ideas. As you feel more comfortable, you start to share your own practical insights. So you don't have to have all the answers right away. You can develop a unique point of view. My friend Dave Linthicum does this really well. He's pithy. He's pithy as all get out, right? He just calls a spade a shovel. And so he has his own and he's done incredibly well. He has hundreds of thousands of followers.

So back to being authentic again. Don't try to be something you're not.

Back to being authentic, back to being who you are, but have a point of view. You don't have to have a point of view right away when you start, but eventually have a point of view.

Yes. Wow. Powerful. Powerful. Now, uh, let's talk about something that is very dear to my heart. Mentorship, diversity, and legacy. Like I said in the introduction, You co-founded Cloud Girls. So I would like to know what inspired you to do so? And why is this mission so important to you personally?

Yeah, so Cloud Girls was about educating ourselves on cloud technology in a vendor-neutral way. And it was invite-only because we wanted to only have women that were serious about cloud, learning about cloud. They were in a role in in somehow, some way, engineering, sales, channel, whatever, but in the cloud. And what ended up happening is we became this community. And some of the things that we valued came forward, like giving back, like mentoring. We found out that was really important to all of us. And so we created this Cloud Girls Rising Award and a Trailblazer Award and a Visionary Award because we really wanted to honor women in cloud at a time when so few of the folks in the cloud space were women. And what we found was that so many women were making so many wonderful contributions. And so fast forward 15 years, we have our first daughter of one of the original members that were— wow, right? So legacy. Um, so I would tell you that You know, I didn't know anything about running a nonprofit and I learned, right? I had no idea what a 503 was. I had no idea what, you know, I had no idea what went into it and having a board and all that stuff. I would encourage everyone to find something they are passionate about and to use that passion and give back because I've really learned some lessons along the way about growth and leadership.

Yes, that is really powerful. And it is Women's History Month in the US. And yesterday I was speaking to Ati Gadea. I don't know if you know her, but very, very powerful, inspirational woman. And there is this documentary, it took them, I think, 5 years to make, but the Women in Security documentary. I want everybody to support that project. I believe it will be on Amazon Prime by the end of the month, but next week is going to be a premiere. And for those going to RSA, which is in San Francisco Bay Area, they're going to be showing that on Tuesday and Wednesday. And you can get your ticket. I will definitely support that. Like I said, when I first started in this industry, there were hardly any women. I was almost always the only Black person in the room. But now again, we are seeing more and more people of color and women. And I think that is so, so powerful. And by the way, one of my friend, Maman, is joining us all the way from London, the United Kingdom. So Maman, let us know if you have a question for Joe. And another plug, I did interview him, I think it was season 4, episode 99. Really, really good guy. He's into cybersecurity as well. Again, it's really wonderful for me to see this global workforce, right? People from different backgrounds getting into this very, very lucrative and really fulfilling field. One thing I love about cybersecurity, no two days are exactly alike. Always something new and always learning. And that is so, so powerful. Now we have about 20 minutes left or so. For the time we have left, I want to get into the last segment where I try to get into your mindset and the way you think and the leadership principles that have helped you become as successful as you are today. So one question I like to ask is, what do you think is one of the greatest lessons you have ever learned, whether it's in life, in leadership or just in general?

Well, you know, I think it's a piece of advice. And, and as it relates to leadership, and it's, you can't teach urgency.

Hmm.

That proactive innate drive to act quickly and prioritize important tasks. That's a personality trait, or mindset that can be hired, that has to be hired for. It can't be a skill that you You can train. You can teach an employee how to do a job, but you can't teach them to care about doing it immediately. I will teach someone all day long if they want to learn, but I can't teach them to care and to want to learn.

Powerful. Wow. Now, looking back through your career in the US military, the Air Force, and tech, no, becoming CIO, CISO, and also the work you do in the nonprofit. Why do you think you have been so successful, especially again, in a world that was really not meant for women? And you are out there doing your thing and having a huge impact. Why do you think that's the case?

I honestly had to get outside of my own head and just keep my head down and keep doing what I was doing, because I figured that if I kept my head down, that the brush would clear eventually.

Yes.

And, and I'm not advocating, you know, not having a voice. I'm not advocating hoping that someone's going to recognize your talents, although I was lucky enough to have— and this may sound funny to the audience— I had a couple wonderful male advocates. I believe that, that men can help women move in their careers just as much as other women can. Yes, it's about the quality of the person and their heart. Um, and so, but just keep your head down and keep doing what you like to do, and eventually someone's going to realize that you're good at what you do.

That's really powerful. How do you think, because now as of today, still the great majority of the movers and shakers in our industries are male, specifically white, white male. How do you think they can be a good ally and support women in this growing industry?

I think things are changing. I think that, um, even though, as you say, it's, it's many white males, you know, the thing— a lot of them are our parents with daughters, and the thing is to just try to relate to them. And most people are kind and reasonable, and I think that's the thing.

So true. We have our first question from the audience today. So Maman, who is again an expert in AI and cybersecurity, says, Joe, my first question: What happens when nothing happens? When no incident hits, no alarm rings, no crisis breaks, but the organization is quietly drifting into exposure? Wow, that's a good question.

Yeah, that's a really great question. It's a deeply thought-out question, Maman. I think you've been thinking about this one. I think it is your job as the leader, particularly in the security space, to continually assess.

Yes.

Right?

It is your job to be— we were talking about it a little bit earlier, BZ, like that conversation with the board is changing. We're not just spewing facts anymore. We're talking about things like, hey kids, what happens if we can't be— what happens if we need to be operational tomorrow? What does that really mean? What does that look like? Those are the hard conversations to have and you gotta have them.

Yes, yes. Well, I guess that's why we get paid the big bucks, right?

Yeah, right.

Something like that. Yeah.

Okay. So what are you learning these days? I know leaders learners. What have you been getting into lately?

Well, I think I mentioned to you that I really am getting into AI security. I really, I think that that is just going to be something that stays with us. And the other thing that I'm really, really interesting is interested in is, so I came up the network side of the house. And I started rethinking the OSI model as an AI OSI model.

Huh.

So what, what would the OSI model look like at its 7 different layers as we're looking at AI workloads? Because AI workloads operate differently. So if we could reconstruct that, and I've been playing with that because very different. And so, and then how are we going to integrate traditional workloads with the AI workloads? Do they need to be, you know, are we going to segment them off? What's that going to look like? So it's interesting to me.

Quite interesting. I think that's going to be your next bestselling book right there. That's something we definitely need to hear more. It's something that's really, really funny for everybody who's been in the industry for long enough. Eventually, even everybody, when they first start, right, everybody is a novice. You don't know anything. You have to learn everything and it can be overwhelming. But after a while though, you start becoming a thought leader like you, an influencer going to conferences, not just listening to people speaking. You are the one who's actually speaking and people come to listen to you. It's like, what is going on? Right? It's just incredible. So I guess for those who are listening, you just have to take one step at a time, be passionate, Be authentic and really put your passion in things that you are really concerned about, things that excite you, and start, like you said earlier, don't be afraid to share your opinion. Not everybody may think like you, but some people are gonna start listening, and before you know it, you're gonna be so busy going from one conference to another because people want to know what do you think. And it is a wonderful feeling. Actually, looking back when I first started in cybersecurity, what, 21 years ago, and where I am now, it's like, wow, what happened? Yeah, what happened? And this field is just evolving. Now, we did talk a lot about your successes, which we should and we wanna celebrate that, but what about failure? How has failure shaped your life?

You know, I think that I'm reminded of a time when I told you I worked for Fortune 500s for a really long time. And I was moving along, grooving along. I was happy. We had a leader come in and the leader decided that they were going to save a bunch of money. And they took a bunch of accounts without really looking at the marketing. You know, big customers, maybe little spend. They didn't really. And they moved everything to a call center. Center. So they just looked at the bottom line. And why that impacted me is my job title across the entire country was cut. Wow. And I'd been with this firm for 8 years. And I didn't see it coming. And it made me— it wasn't so much about something I did wrong or a failure that I had personally. It was about a circumstance that changed. And I think about this great book that I read in the '90s called Who Moved My Cheese?

Yes. Ever read it? Yeah.

About the two little mice, you know, and they're fat and happy on their cheese.

Yes.

And then they wake up one day and their cheese is gone. Mm-hmm. And they have to go find cheese. And it's about this thick, you know, it's kind of super skinny little book. If you haven't read it, go read it. It's a parable about not getting fat and happy.

Hmm.

And I took a scary jump into consulting at that point.

Wow.

And it was, I was so, I was so afraid. And what I realized at that point was that you have a pair of ruby slippers, just like Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz, and nobody can take away your ruby slippers. And what I mean by that is you have your knowledge, you have your education, you you have your certifications, if the job goes away, someone's going to find those things valuable.

Hmm. Right.

And so don't get too comfortable, keep learning. And sometimes things happen outside of your control. So you have to think about what you can do to right side that.

Wow, that is really something. And yes, I really love the business. Parables that you mentioned, who moved my cheese. And back then we were talking about Y2K as well. Everybody was very afraid what would happen to the world. And today with cyber, this is even more relevant now, right? By Dr. Sponsor, uh, John Johnson. Uh, it is, uh, really, yeah, it's like an amazing way to deal with change in your work and in your life. Because the thing is The only thing constant in life these days is change.

That's right.

It's change.

Like even AI, when it first came, people say AI will never take away jobs. But now we've seen—

I've seen that.

—software engineers being laid off because AI is taking their job. I would have never imagined that being possible. But yeah, it is happening. So let's talk a little bit about fear then. If you are willing to share, is there maybe one of the greatest fears you were able to overcome?

Oh my gosh, I think honestly, I think it was perfection. I think it was, you know, I didn't want to make a mistake. And so I didn't take a chance. Right. And that chance looked like I didn't raise my hand and volunteer for a project. I didn't speak up. I didn't share my ideas because I was afraid that they weren't perfect and they weren't fully thought out and I hadn't completely vetted them. And what I realized is that everybody is trying to find their way and nobody has all the answers. And you've just got to start. You've got to put one foot in front of the other and you've got to try and you've got to look to others for help. You've got to look to your team to help you learn. You just got to try. You can't— but that fear of perfection makes you get stuck sometimes.

That's really powerful. I guess I'd like to ask you where you think you found that courage. One thing that came to mind when you were speaking is I've seen it happen in boardrooms where a woman would say something and everybody's going to ignore it. And then right after that, a man would say the same exact thing and they'd be like, "Oh, that's so great. What a wonderful idea." idea. So you just get ignored, just almost invisible, just because of your gender. How have you dealt with that in your own experience, or where do you find the courage to find your voice?

I think, you know, funny story, I was an engineer, I was the only female engineer in this group, and back in those days, all the gentlemen wore button-down shirts to work, blue or white. You know, you can sort of guess what year this was. But anyhow, and I forgot we were going to do a picture. And I came to work that day and I had a hot pink top on. Well, I'm the only girl in the sea of men with blue and white shirts. And they stick me in the center to take the picture. And literally and figuratively, I realized I was the sore thumb. Hmm. And when I realized that I was the sore thumb and I looked different and sounded different and thought a little bit different, I just owned that. Yeah. But it was owning that. It was like not trying to hide from that. Mm-hmm. And just realizing this is the case and you're either gonna accept me or you're not.

Yes. Wow.

You can't change the color of your skin. You can't change your female form. You can't change those things. So people are either willing to look past that and look to your ideas, the way you think, your knowledge, or they can't.

Wow. Incredible. Thank you for being a trailblazer and really being a shining example of what it is like to really be thriving at the highest level in cybersecurity, because I think it really does make a lot of difference when somebody can see someone who looks like, like them and they can say, okay, this is possible for me as well. Right? Like, uh, even someone I, I only met, met, met him, uh, once, but he is one of the few people who really changed my, my life, General Colin Powell. But just seeing him as a 4-star general in the, uh, US Army, in the military, I'm like, if he can do it, no, I can do it too. You just become a source of inspiration and, uh, whether you like it or not, you, you become a role model. Model, and that's really powerful. Wow. All right. So we are quickly running out of time here. Let me ask you, if you could choose 3 people, 3 people to have dinner with, they could be alive, dead, or even fictitious characters, who would you choose and why?

Oh, look at you. Okay. All right. Give me just a second to think about this. I would choose I would choose Oprah Winfrey, because she has always been an inspiration to me. She's always been one of those people that, you know, has just managed to take herself to another level, right? I would choose Eleanor Roosevelt. Because Eleanor Roosevelt was a woman of power and money and came from a great family, but yet she chose to use her platform to help people. And she was so far ahead of her time. Yes. Right? She just really reached back and helped people. And then, oh my gosh, I'd have to choose somebody fun like Robin Williams. Yes, because he brought so much joy to so many people. He could just light up a room. And those would be my three right off the top of my head.

Yeah, definitely. I miss the talent of Robin Williams. Really tragic the way he passed away, but he was extremely funny. Incredible. Okay, you've already mentioned this book, Who Moved My Cheese? Is there another book you would recommend to my audience? We do read a lot here.

Yeah. So since we're talking about women and we've— that's been a thread through the conversation. I really like the book Playing Big: Practical Wisdom for Women Who Want to Speak Up, Create, and Lead. It's written by a woman by the name of Tara Moore. And through her coaching and counseling, she saw how women were playing small in their lives and their careers and were really frustrated. And they wanted to play bigger. So she created a way for them, a playbook for them to achieve their dreams by playing big from the inside out, because that's where it starts, right?

So that's powerful. Powerful. Yeah. Playing Big by Tara Moore. Very good. I'm gonna make sure to add that to our digital library. Okay. Is there maybe a song, a book, or a movie that would be like your life theme or anthem? Don't Stop Believin'. I like that, I like that.

Okay, and that's Journey.

So I actually had a 32-year-old ask me who Journey was, so everybody might know who Journey is.

Yes, Don't Stop Believin', that is quite, uh, powerful. Wow. Okay, uh, man, we are running out of time, so I I wanted to ask you a couple more questions, if I may, before we end today. If you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Oh, I think it would be maybe, you know, you'd asked me another question and maybe I want to go back to that. Could. Please. You said at the end of your career, how would you want to be remembered as a leader? And I think that's maybe a fitting way to close. I think you need to be a table builder. When I was coming up as an engineer, there was often no space at a table for me. So I decided to build a table for women in tech to come and sit. And I really, with Cloud Girls, I really didn't care if you were a seasoned veteran, or a newcomer, if you were Black, white, or purple, if you were corporate or not. I was interested in your thinking and what you had to say. And I wanted to give you a place to say it. So I would tell everyone that's listening, go build a table.

Wow, that is so powerful. And then the follow-on question to this is, if you had a magic wand and you could solve any problem in the world, what is the one problem you'd like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

I think kindness. We just need to be kind to one another.

Yes, yes, we need more empathy in this world for sure. All right, we are getting to, uh, the end of the show. Good things eventually come to an end. So how can we add value back to you, Jo?

Oh my gosh, follow me on LinkedIn. I'd love to hear from you. And also, if you're into AI security like me, I started a podcast called Clear Tech Loop. It is on all the good places to find podcasts like Spotify and all the others. So I'd love it if you joined me and took a listen if that's a passion of yours as well.

Fantastic. AI security, cloud, and cybersecurity thought leadership with Jo Pedersen. Available on all of the major podcast platforms. That is so wonderful. Thanks so much for everything you do, all of the value you really add to our industry. And it's really interesting. Like we said, when you first started, nobody knew you, you were a novice, but now you are adding a lot of content back into the industry and helping shape the next leaders in cybersecurity, AI, and cloud. And that is just such a wonderful thing. The very last question I'm going to ask you I know we are out of time, but before I ask that one, it's going to be the last question. Is there something I should have asked you I haven't got a chance to ask yet? Anything else you wanted to share? I don't think so.

I think we were pretty thorough.

Yes. All right. So the very last question for you then is, if you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self, right? Standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had. What would you say to 17-year-old Joe?

Believe in yourself. Believe in yourself.

Wow, that is so inspirational. Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Joe, for spending time with us today, being one of our master teachers. And I guess the last, last question I like to ask every guest is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today. Lovely. Lovely. And I am so grateful you are here. And thanks again for all of the great work you do. Keep rocking it, and thank you so much for enlightening us and inspiring us today.

Thank you, Jo. Thank you.

And thank you for your service too. Air Force veteran, powerful. All right, everybody, this is one for the book. Again, follow Jo. She's just a terrific, terrific leader. If you want to get into cloud, cybersecurity, and AI, she is the person to follow. So really, really grateful she took the time to talk to us today. But as you guys know, we celebrate Black History— I guess it's Black History Year now. We did that during February, every day in February for Black History Month, but 28 days is not long enough. So we've decided to celebrate Black history for the remaining of the year because Black history is American history. And today The person we are going to honor, I did mention him throughout the podcast today, one of my dearest mentors, General Colin Powell. He's really affected my life in ways I couldn't even imagine. He was the very first, not only Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but even before that, the very first African American National Security Advisor. And then later on, as you know, he was the very first Secretary of State of the United States, African American. So just a great guy all around, a true American hero, and we want to celebrate him today. And I also want to remind you that tomorrow I will be back and I will be speaking— let me find her, here she is— with Aubrey Bergauer. She's the bestselling author of Run It Like a Business. She's going to be here tomorrow. I hope you can join us. And then On Friday, I will be speaking to, he's a veteran, Lieutenant Rick Gordon, US Navy. He's a submariner, if you can believe that. We're gonna be talking about from submarine to startup, leading in high-stakes environment. He's an ecosystem builder, a strategist, and a mission-driven leader. So Lieutenant Gordon will be here. And then on Sunday, I'm going to go back to the, Ancient wisdom and leadership lessons from the Book of Proverbs. This is not a religious broadcast. It's going to be about finding that wisdom and leadership lesson from more than 2,000 years ago, which is still relevant today. So now I am using artificial intelligence to give us like a 15-minute recap on the lesson we had on January 20th, 2026. We went through each one of those books in January, each chapter every day from January 1st to January 31st. Okay, that's all I have planned. Oh, also, I guess I need to mention this. Today, I'm actually going to be speaking at the CIU and CISO think tank in San Francisco. For those who have registered, I look forward to talking to you there. I am going to have a keynote presentation this morning and then a closing panel toward the end of the day. And during lunch, I felt like I absolutely had to help them out. I had to go talk to the UNCF, STEM Innovation Summit. So they are here, I guess it started yesterday, today until the 20th in South San Francisco, but I'm gonna be speaking to about 50 high school kids, most of them Black, African American minority going into HBCU, right? Historically Black College and University. I felt like I absolutely had to go there and show my support. I'm gonna be speaking about cybersecurity, the impact of AI on cybersecurity and talent recruitment. Basically a lot of the things we've talked about with Drew today. That's going to be from 12:00 to 12:30 today. And it's just a great, great honor and privilege to be adding value like that again, helping shape the future of cybersecurity and helping make our industry a lot more diverse as well. Okay, that's all I have for today. Thank you so much for watching. And hopefully you're going to be back on the podcast tomorrow. We're going to be listening to Aubrey, Gower live on the Leadership and Success Podcast. Okay, before I go, I'm gonna play a short video honoring, uh, my mentor, uh, General Colin Powell, and, uh, that's gonna be it for today. Thanks again for watching. Bye for now.

Colin Powell, former Secretary of State and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has died of complications from COVID-19. In a statement, his family said he was fully vaccinated.

I want to take just a second to express my deepest condolences to Alma, his wife, his son Michael, and the entire Powell family.

The 84-year-old repeatedly made history serving 3 Republican presidents. He was the first African American chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under President George H.W. Bush and the first Black Secretary of State under President George W. Bush.

The Army allowed me to climb on the shoulders of the Buffalo Soldiers and other African Americans who had blazed the trail for 300 years of American history. I hope the day will come soon when all parts of our society do for young minorities what the Army and the other armed services have been doing for young men and women of all color over the years.

Born in 1937, Powell was the son of Jamaican immigrants and grew up in New York City. He served two tours during the Vietnam War. He then served as military assistant to high-level government officials and a stint as national security advisor to President Ronald Reagan.

I've chosen a seasoned professional and Frank's right-hand man here at the White House, Lieutenant General Colin Powell.

He also became a four-star general. As President George H.W. Bush's Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Powell helped guide the U.S. military to victory in the 1991 Persian Gulf War. As the Pentagon's top officer, he began the reshaping of American forces after the end of the Cold War. His famous prescription for the use of force, dubbed the Powell Doctrine, called for applying military might only with overwhelming and decisive troop strength, a clear objective, and popular support. As Secretary of State under President George W. Bush, he had deep misgivings about the timing of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. But a key moment came at the United Nations when Powell asserted that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction.

Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction. He's determined to make more. The United States will not and cannot run that risk to the American people. Leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction —destruction for a few more months or years is not an option. Not in a post-September 11th world.

He later said he regretted giving the speech. But a lot of people counted on you.

I know. You changed the ballgame. I changed— I turned the dial. There's no question about it. And that's what the president wanted me to do and what I was supposed to do. You regret it. I regret it now because the information was wrong.

Although Powell served 3 Republican presidents, he endorsed President Obama in 2008. He also became more outspoken during President Trump's term in office.

We have a Constitution and we have to follow that Constitution, and the president has drifted away from it.

During the 2020 election, he endorsed Democratic candidate Joe Biden.

The values I learned growing up in the South Bronx and serving in uniform were the same values that Joe Biden's parents instilled in him in Scranton, Pennsylvania. I support Joe Biden for the presidency of the United States because those values still define him.

Powell tended to avoid racial activism and often downplayed the portrayal of him as a symbol of Black achievement. But his groundbreaking roles inspired others.

The world lost one of the greatest leaders that we have ever witnessed. Quite frankly, it is not possible to replace a Colin Powell.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.