S5:E81🎙️Live with Christopher Stitt (Multi Tracks Audio)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple, to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to Welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

Meet Christopher Stitt, a voice that inspires action, challenges perspectives, and transforms the way people think.

Thank you all for joining me here today, both in the room and online around the world.

Chris is a globally recognized thought leader with dozens of published articles, podcast appearances, and speaking engagements.

When you're in a crisis, be it government or the business world, what you do and what you say are just as important. And in fact, what you say may be even more important than what you do.

His influence extends across some of the most respected stages in security, risk, and resilience.

Is every emergency a crisis? I'm hearing some nos.

That's true.

So here you have You have two very similar incidents with very different outcomes. One of the reasons crisis is so different than emergency is the difference between logic and emotion.

His insights on crisis management, security, and leadership are highly valued by both government organizations and corporations. Christopher has spoken at leading global forums including ASUS GSX 2024 and 2025, the Life Safety Alliance 2025, the 3rd Annual Cyber-Physical Convergence Forum in Washington, D.C., the Airbus 2025 Global Security Symposium, the Security Journal Americas 2025 Leaders in Security Conference, the OSAC 2025 Annual Briefing, and many others, with more engagements Alright everyone, welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success podcast.

We have a very special guest for you. And hello to Michael Gibbs, he's here from Bethesda, Maryland. And thank you for being here. Let us know what you guys are grateful for and also where you are coming from. As is our custom here, we like to start with what we call the moment of gratitude. So we just want to take a moment and be grateful. And I think today I am really grateful for peace, right? It's kind of strange. I am a US Navy information warfare commander, so I am a warrior, but there is nothing I like more than peace. I always feel like, you know, sometimes we do have to have wars, which is unfortunate, but it absolutely war has to be the last resort. And then when we do it, it really has to be for just war, right? It has to be legal, moral, and ethical, right? Unfortunately, that is what you have to do at times. But I believe you have to have such a strong navy or powerful military that war is just not necessary. But anyway, I am grateful for global peace right now. All right. If you would, again, let me know where you are coming from in the comment. And if you do have a question for my guest, please go ahead and type it in the comment. We will be answering live. All right, let me see if I can properly introduce our guest today. We're gonna be speaking to Christopher Steed. He's a crisis-tested leader, global security expert, and influence-driven strategist with more than 25 years of experience leading in high-stakes environments across the world. From serving as a supervisory special agent with the US Department of State to advising US ambassadors and overseeing security operations across more than 50 embassies and consulates, Chris has built a career on leading through complexity, uncertainty, and pressure. So Without any further ado, would you please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Chris Stait. All right. Good morning, Chris. How are you doing today?

I'm great, Coach BZ. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here with you and to talk with you and the audience that we have on this really fantastic podcast and following that you've built here.

Thank you. Really appreciate that. You might know Michael. I did interview him. Looks like you guys use the same publisher. CRC.

But indeed, Mike is one of my good mentors and good friends.

That is really amazing how we live in such a big world, but then at the same time, technology makes it feel so much smaller. So just to get started, Chris, what is one thing you are grateful for today?

One thing I'm grateful for today, I think, is the relationships that I've built, the community, that I'm continuing to grow and the opportunity to reach and influence people through forums like this and my book and other speaking engagements.

Which, by the way, today we are going to be mainly talking about this book, Scaling Pyramids: Leadership Lessons from a Mid-Level Bureaucrat. But you also wrote two other books, or at least some chapters, The Kindness Game: How a Single Post Changed Our Mindset About Community. And also this most recent Organizational Risk Culture Standard, which is pretty amazing.

Yeah, no, thank you. I was honored to be able to be part of the Kindness Games and spread kindness to people who especially, you know, had shown kindness to me in the past or others that I was trying to show kindness to. And then for the Organizational Risk Culture Standard that was spearheaded by Dr. Gab Schneider, and I was one of the 5 co-authors on that. And our goal there is to really help organizations embed in their culture high-performance risk management processes and policies and make sure that it's fully embedded in their culture so they can be fully successful.

Yes, in the age of AI, I think that is quite critical. And what is something about you most people may not know when they first meet you?

Um, I think one thing that people may not know is just the breadth of things that I'm actually doing. Um, you know, it's, it's kind of funny, a lot of people put— try to put you in a box, right? Where do you fit in their schema? But, you know, I'm a former special agent but also a diplomat. I'm also a, you know, in leadership development. I teach as adjunct faculty at George Mason University. I run a security consulting firm. Wow. I am working on getting into more keynote speaking. There's, you know, there was a TEDx talk several years ago that really struck a chord with me about being a multipotentialite.

Wow.

You're not just one thing. You've got the potential to do lots of things. And there's people out there that really enjoy, you know, finding the different paths and, you know, following what interests them now. And I think that, you know, like I said, it really struck a chord with me because that is one of the things that I do.

That is really amazing. Some people feel like they only have one purpose. I think that might be true, but maybe it expresses itself in different ways. And that is really, really, really cool. Maybe we're going to get into a little bit of that too. So I know you have more than 25 years experience career. If you could tell us, you know, if you could take us back, what specific experiences or what comes to mind that kind of shaped your leadership philosophy?

The most?

So one of the advantages to my career being a special agent with the Diplomatic Security Service was that we rotated every 1 to 3 years.

Wow.

But not only did I rotate every 1 to 3 years, everyone around me rotated every 1 to 3 years, which means that I was constantly encountering new leadership principles, new leadership mechanisms, new, you know, styles and modes of leadership that I often had to adjust to, or that I had to adjust, you know, my leadership style to suit the new people that were coming in, you know, around me. So it really gives you a, you know, broad base of different styles and, you know, principles and things like that. So I think that's one of the things that really makes it different.

That is really something. So very similar to the military. Uh, I, yes, I guess I kind of like that because in many ways it forces you to really have a very great— no, a whole lot of experience, right? But the only thing I don't like about it is you usually don't really get into depth in what you're doing. Basically, by the time you learn your job, it's time for you to move and go to something else.

It's, it's very true. You know, and, you know, I know we'll talk in a little bit, a little bit more about this. But yeah, when you're rotating that frequently, you are constantly needing to, you know, lead yourself in order to adjust.

Yeah. So operating in some of the most complex environments in the world, what did those environments teach you about leadership that you couldn't learn anywhere else?

So there's A couple of major points there. I think the first is that not only was I simply rotating my positions here in the United States, in a particular city, in a particular, you know, organization, but, you know, I was also rotating around the world. So there was a lot to understand about leadership in different cultural settings as well. So, and when you talk about culture, you have workplace culture, right? The, you know, the people who are around you, you have your office culture, the, your people that are kind of immediately there that you're working with day to day. But then you've also got your organizational culture for, you know, in my case, the new embassy that I was coming into and different ambassadors had different styles, different deputy chiefs of mission had different styles, you know, things like that.. But then layer on top of that, you know, national cultures and how you interact with people in, you know, the local environment also gave me a lot of insights into, you know, building my own leadership philosophies.

Yeah, especially places you've been, it's not just the culture, but the language also. Yes.

Wow. Yeah. No, that's, you know, learning some of the, you know, turns of language. And I spent a lot of time in Spanish-speaking countries in Latin America, but I was also in West Africa and Burkina Faso, and I spent a year in Iraq. But it was always funny to pick up some of the little idioms and things like that, and that really influenced how people think and how they see the world.

So when everything is uncertain and stakes are high, especially when you were in the State Department, what separates effective leaders from those who struggle, you think?

I think the big thing is the effective leaders are the ones who didn't try to go it alone. They really leveraged the team that they have and the skill sets of those team members, making sure that everybody was involved, could play their part, and that actually listened to the input from those team members.

Wow, that is, I really like that. The imagery I get is kind of like being the one who leads an orchestra. Well, you don't have to play all of the instruments, but you know who needs to play what and when, and you just orchestrate that, which is pretty awesome. Can you walk us through maybe a moment where you had to make a high-stake decision with incomplete information and what was your framework?

Yeah, so, um, you know, one of them— there was one of my overseas posts, there was a bomb threat against one of the schools that a lot of our kids went to, and the school was going to, you know, evacuate all the students, send them all home, um, call in the local police to have the canines go through the school and make sure that there was no danger and things like that. Um, one of the problems this caused though was chaos. Yes, because you you suddenly had all of these parents being alerted by their kids via cell phone that— and a lot of this came not from the school but from the kids. Hey, we're not sure what's going on, but we're being evacuated and things like that. You then have all the parents suddenly, you know, in a panic about what's going to happen to my kid. And what we needed to do for the embassy, because we had probably about two dozen embassy kids at this particular school. We needed to find a way to reduce that chaos, make sure that we were taking care of our kids, making sure that we were helping, you know, guide the school through what they were doing. And it was very fast that we needed to be able to react to this and number one, get in touch with the parents. Number two, send somebody down to collect, to get all the kids collectively so that we could make a quick reunification plan between the parents and the kids. We also had to, you know, message up what was going on to the embassy front office, right? And we also had to make sure that we were actually going to be able to get to the school because of all the traffic that was suddenly converging on it. So it was just kind of a All right, here's where we're at. What are the ideas? What else are we missing? And that's an important point, you know. I think very successful leaders, uh, in crisis are willing to ask the question, what are we missing?

Yeah.

Um, and then it was a matter of, okay, who can we divvy up these tasks to most effectively? So yeah.

So I, I assume everything went well, you were able to retrieve all of the kids and there was no Yep, we were able to retrieve all the kids.

I think there was one parent who ignored our advice and went to get their kid and ended up being stuck in traffic. The rest of the kids ended up in a couple of embassy vans being guided by one of my, you know, special agents. And then we had a reunification in the embassy. And one of the other things we did with that too is a debrief with the kids. Right, and thanking the older kids for making sure that they were taking care of the younger kids and making sure that they understood, um, you know, the role that they had played in the success of this as well.

Yeah, I guess there is always that one guy. But, uh, now if it comes to your children, maybe I can understand some people get quite emotional. What, what did you learn through that experience?

You know, it reinforced my reliance on, on the team reinforced the, you know, concept of, you know, I'm not the only one involved here. But it also reinforced the, you know, understanding of chaos.

Yes.

And, you know, how, you know, we're in, you know, this era of permacrisis right now, this era of, you know, the the VUCA world. A lot of people understand VUCA, right? Volatile, uncertain, complex, um, ambiguous. And then you add on to that digitized. Like I said, you had kids calling their parents from their cell phones.

Wow.

Giving additional information to, um, you know, their parents that they weren't getting from the school. And, uh, you know, we really needed to, um, work through that as well. So it really kind of reinforced that concept and that ability to operate in that environment.

No, I am really grateful for technology. I know it can be used in a bad way, but for the most part, it's really increased a lot of the safety because I remember back in the day we didn't have cell phones. You have to find an AT&T payphone if there was one close by. But now if there is really a danger, your kids need you, they can call you anytime. And also with this new phone, you pretty much have GPS built in. You can know exactly where they are. So that really makes a parent feel so much better. But how do leaders build trust quickly in crisis environment like you've been where there is really no time to earn it slowly? And I'm assuming just like in the military, even when you just change job, you get a new billet. Yeah, you might be in charge and you have an idea of what the mission is, but you don't really know the way it's implemented within your team, your unit. And also, you don't really know who even is the second in charge and your new people. So how do you build that trust as quickly as you can?

So particularly in the State Department, and I'm sure it's the same in the military, you got to understand that your reputation precedes you. In the State Department, it's literally called the hallway reputation, how people talk about you as they're walking down the hall.

Yeah.

So you need to understand that partially trust is even built before you walk in that room, built or destroyed before you work in that— walk in that room, because people have a sense generally of who you are, Some may have worked with you directly previously, some may have not, but they talk to each other and, hey, who is this person coming in? Who is, you know, what do you know about them? How do they operate? You know, what are their goods and bads? You know, different things like that. So it's really important to understand that this doesn't just happen, you know, in the crisis situation or the military or the government, right? Especially now with social media and things like that, the amount of information that you can discover about somebody before you actually meet them is vast. So, um, that's a big part of it. But then the next part of it, you know, for me is instead of walking in and throwing your weight around and, you know, things like that, you know, you need to build trust. Others need to trust you but you need to be able to trust them. So being open to taking a few minutes just, just to get a sense of people, to listen, you know, I mentioned listening earlier, uh, to listen to their thoughts, their ideas, their opinions, um, to get a better understanding of what's going on in the situation, especially in a very volatile situation, chaotic situation, um, you know, because you may walk in with certain assumptions that could be completely wrong. And if you refuse to listen, that's going to undermine trust from the get-go.

That, that is so powerful. I know in the Navy we are very much a hierarchy organization, but when you have the boss— like, I was a commanding officer for the Global Network Operations Security Center for the Navy in Suffolk, especially for the first 30 days. I feel like you should not make any decision to change anything. Just let things the way they are, observe, ask a lot of questions, and like you say, listen, listen, listen. And then once you get a very good idea of what they're doing, then as a boss you can say, okay, I think we can improve this, improve that, or do this differently. But I've seen some people, first day they just came, they don't even know what's going on, they already start giving orders and changing everything, and then it ends up into a very, very big mess. So listening is really a critical skill for a leader, isn't it?

Yeah. And in the crisis situation, when you're in an even more compressed timeline, it becomes so much more critical. One of the things we did as part of our high-threat training for our high-threat deployments was they actually gave us some training on when you are a person of authority, a person in charge, and you walk into an operations center, in the midst of a crisis. The first thing you do is actually stand still, look around the room, listen, wait to be briefed. And the reason be— before be— the reason for that is, number one, everybody's in the middle of this crisis. They're doing a whole lot of stuff at once, right? And if you interrupt what they're doing immediately, it can impact how things are going. Number 2, look around because what's up on the screens? What's up on the whiteboards? What can you learn before anything? And then, number 3, listen for them to tell you, give you that briefing and tell you what are the things that are actually going on right now.

Yes, yes.

You know, and again, that's one of those things that helps build trust and confidence in you as the manager, supervisor, leader because they understand that you value their input.

Yes, I think for me, it comes down to two things, right? I care about my people and you really have to show it because if you're just pretending, they're going to know right away. And then number two, I am humble enough to learn from them. That is quite powerful. So, What do you think is one of the biggest mistakes leaders make in crisis situations specifically?

I think the biggest mistake they make is coming in with preconceived notions and driving forward with incomplete information. Now, you're never going to have, especially in a crisis situation, complete information. But if they try to drive forward on their own, right, versus leveraging the team that they have around them. And you have that team for a reason, right? They want to sit there and say, I'm the leader, I'm in charge, this is how we're going to do things. But the reality is you may not know of a certain facet of this thing that somebody else does, and you need to understand it before you act.

That is, that is so important. Again, in the Navy, we have a chain of command is so important. It's also important to be able to listen and receive feedback from the least, the most junior people on your team, because wisdom doesn't respect rank, I found out. And sometimes they may just have the key to help you solve whatever critical issues you are going through. I really like what you're talking about. Let's talk about scaling influence for just a moment. Your book, Scaling Pyramids: Leadership Lessons from a Mid-Level Bureaucrat— I love the title, it's kind of funny— but it really challenges a major assumption. Why? Why do most people believe leadership belongs at the top?

So if you think about it, most leadership books are actually written for either the person at the top or here's how you get to the top. Right. But the reality is that, you know, there are leaders at every single level in an organization. I have not yet been the U.S. Secretary of State. Right. Who knows if it someday would happen. That would be kind of a weird series of coincidences to make that go. But I've never— I was never at the top of my organization. Quite frankly, I retired as an FS-01, which in military parlance is like an 06, colonel, captain, you know, things like that, right? So I never technically even made it into the senior foreign service, but from lower levels of my organization, I was able to drive transformational change that impacted not just the Department of State, but every single federal agency operating in an embassy overseas.

Wow.

So, you know, the fact that— and it wasn't just once, right? There were multiple projects that I was involved in and that I took the lead on that had massive transformational change for how, you know, we operated.

Yes.

And that is all about, you know, understanding how to navigate the complex organization that is your organizational pyramid.

That is really fascinating. Basically, you're talking about leading from the middle in a large, complex organization. Why did this book have to be written?

Why?

Why did you write it?

So I originally wrote it because I was frustrated with some of my managers and they thought themselves leaders, but more people fled them than were attracted to them. And, you know, as I— I didn't, you know, publish it immediately. Instead, I decided to sit on it for a while, kind of like you never send the angry email, right, right away. You sleep on it overnight. But, you know, as I looked back on it, and people through the years had encouraged me to go ahead and publish it, but as I looked back on it, one of the things I did was I went through and I took a lot of the anger out, and I rewrote it with a lot more positive examples. And then, you know, I mentioned Gav Schneider earlier. He actually encouraged me to, you know, connect it also to contemporary research in leadership and contemporary voices in leadership. So I went through and I did that. And, you know, I really think it needs to be written, needed to be written, because there's a lot of people out there that are feeling stuck. They've entered this, you know, huge organization, they don't understand how to navigate it. They don't understand really how it works and where, you know, you may have a notion of the lines of authority and, you know, who the CEO is or who the, you know, secretary is or who the commanding general is. But, you know, how do you actually navigate to get your ideas from just, hey, here's something that I think would improve things to let's go ahead and implement that.

Yes, right.

Wow.

So yeah, it really is important because again, there's leaders at every levels, and my, my goal is to help them, help them scale influence, expand capacity, and lead at every level.

I, I really love that there is leaders at every level. I think that's one of the secrets of the military. It doesn't matter where you are, whether you are a senior officer, junior officer, enlisted there is really leadership requirement. It's really built-in leadership development at every level. Even when I joined the Navy 21 years ago, I was at the very bottom back then, you know, seaman recruit. But even as an E-1, I was expected to lead, which really makes a big difference when you have an organization made up of leaders. Because if there is a crisis, everybody knows exactly what to do. They don't have to wait for somebody to give them orders, right? And they just, they just lead and do what needs to be done, which is quite amazing when that happens.

And that's one of the unique things actually about the military, because many corporations, many other government agencies, you know, don't have that focus on leader development that the military has. So there's a whole range of people out there that, you know, have that urge in them to make things better, to lead others, to gain influence. Right. But they don't really know how. So, you know, I think it's, I think it's the U.S. Department of State. It wasn't until Secretary of State Colin Powell, you know, came in and I see his book behind you there.

Yeah.

That they actually established formal leadership training. Wow. You know, and that was in the early 2000s.

Yeah, it doesn't surprise me coming from a 4-star general, but yes.

Yeah, yeah. And even then, you know, you got leadership training 3 times in your career if you were lucky.

Wow, that is, that's really something. Yeah, because it's really something to be said, because I think one thing that distinguishes us from all of the other militaries out there is many militaries, if you get rid of all of the generals, all of the admirals, all of the commanding officers, pretty much they're going to be completely lost. They're not going to know what to do, where to go, and how to fight. But in the US military, you could do that and our people will still know exactly what to do, which is quite, quite amazing.

And a big part of leadership is empowering your people.

Yes, yes.

Right?

Wow.

It's not doing it all yourself, it's empowering others.

So when we talk about leadership at every level, in actuality, what does it look like to actually lead from the middle?

So there's a couple of things there. Number one is if you've achieved kind of that mid-level, right, then hopefully what you've done is you've started to build the relationships across the network. One of the things you got to understand about organizations is, you know, as I say in my book, they're, they're built like pyramids. You know, they're narrow at the top, they're wide at the bottom. But more than that, they're actually built like pyramids within pyramids, right? If you think about it from a corporate sense, right, you've got your sales division, your marketing division, your engineering division, your product development division, you know, and then you've got your, you know, kind of business divisions like finance and, you know, things like that, right? Each one of those forms its own pyramid as well.

Yes.

Well, it's at that middle where if you do it right and if you can bridge those pyramids, right, and build relationships across those different verticals, that you can really have some influence and have a much better understanding of how the organization works.

Wow.

It's also at the middle where, you know, at the top you've got the top giving the vision and the instructions and here's how we're going to do it. At the bottom, you've got the people that are actually trying to implement that.

Yes.

Well, it's at that middle where you start to see that disconnect of the reality on the ground versus the vision at the top.

Yes.

And it's at that point also that you can influence both ends. You can give feedback to the top about, you know, what's working, what's not working with their vision. You can influence the bottom to, you know, really focus on what it is they need to be doing.

So that is really powerful. And you made me think of something, especially when you come to a new organization. It's so much better before there is a crisis to actually build those relationships. People know who you are, kind of make a deposit before you have to ask for a withdrawal, isn't it? Wow. So, In your book, if you can maybe break down your framework for us, what it means to— you talked about leading yourself, leading others, and then leading the organization.

Yeah. So, you know, the first part of leadership in my experience in estimation is you've got to be able to lead yourself. You know, it really helps to understand who your influences are. Why do you do what you do?

Right?

Who are your influences? What are your values? But it's also important to be able to understand what are your strengths and weaknesses?

Hmm.

What are your breaking points? What are your recovery strategies so that you can be effective on multiple levels?

Wow.

Once you've really learned how to lead yourself, develop some good followership skills as well.

So basically what you're saying is you don't need a title at all.

No, for, for, for— especially for none of these levels do you actually need a title, right? And, um, and especially when it comes to leading yourself, you are the boss of yourself.

You don't even need any direct report at all?

No, no, generally not. So then when you get into leading others, once you've understood, you know, leading yourself and adjusting your followership style and adjusting your leadership style, things like that, when you get into leading others Again, it can be completely informal. How many, you know, groups out there where the formal leader is somebody, but the alpha, the informal leader, is somebody else completely?

Yes.

Right. That alpha has influence. So it's about building relationships. You know, I talk in the book, one of the things that I often did was especially at my overseas posts, I got in the habit of never eating office— eating lunch in my office. I always either went down to the cafeteria or out with different groups of people, and I almost never had lunch with somebody from my own office. I actually actively worked to bridge, you know, the pyramids within pyramids and build those relationships so I could understand what they were working on that I might be able to help them with. Or what they are working on that's going to affect what I'm doing, right? And building those relationships and leading others. And then that also led to when I had ideas, you know, you get into leading organizations. Now, if I've got an idea that I want to see enacted, do I have the relationships or relationships of relationships to actually get to the point that the decision makers learn about my idea and are willing to implement it, right?

Well, that is really powerful because it reminds me of a book I read, Never Eat Alone. And I feel like as a leader, you really need to be intentional into building those relationships. Wow, that is really something. But what about leading the organization?

So leading the organization, like I said, I have not yet been Secretary of State. But for instance, you know, one of my bigger ones that more people know about me for is I was faced with updating the emergency action plan at one of our embassies overseas early in my career, literally my first overseas tour. I didn't know a whole lot about emergency management at that time. But I knew that there were better ways to do this.

Yes.

So I started looking at it, I started working on it, and, you know, I came up with a different way to lay out the plan and to put the information together. And my boss was very supportive of me because she recognized, you know, that how we were doing things was based on a manual from 1988, and it was intended to be done on a manual typewriter. We're now in the late '90s and we have computers, right? She's like, yep, we need to figure out a way to do this better. When we sent in the plan, Washington rejected it. They said you didn't follow the format and things like that. My boss went back and said, you know what, Chris has an idea here that actually is useful.

Hmm.

We should really take a look at how we're doing. Over the next couple of years, I continue to build on that. And continued to work with other embassies. And, you know, at that point I rotated to Burkina Faso and was working across, you know, some of the embassies in West Africa with these ideas. And when I was ready to rotate again and I was headed back to Washington, they actually called me and said, Chris, we'd like to— like you to come and work in emergency planning.

Wow.

And I was the first special agent that had been assigned to emergency planning since 1994, and I got there in 2003.

Wow.

So, and when I asked them, so you want me to just kind of, you know, kind of do what I was doing and tinker around the edges to make it better? And they said, you're the one with the ideas, you figure it out. I ended up rewriting the entire emergency planning handbook that every single embassy and consulate around the world uses.

That's pretty amazing.

Completely reconfigured it, learned emergency management around the way. And, you know, also oversaw the development of ended up being both generations of software that every embassy and consulate uses to take that enterprise guidance and convert it into usable plans for their operating environment.

So that is pretty amazing. Wow.

But yeah, and I did that, you know, again, I came in the first time as the chief of emergency planning, which was a title they gave, gave me but didn't actually exist in the hierarchical structure. Yes. Right. And, you know, was able to build relationships way above my pay grade. Because when you think about this, you know, when you're doing this kind of policy, I was working across the interagency. I was working across the rest of the Department of State. I was working— everybody else that I was working with was at least 2 to 3 grades higher than me.

Wow.

Sometimes 4 or 5.

That is really, really amazing. What you're really talking about is being able to lead even if you have a title, but you don't have any formal authority or budget.

Correct.

So for the people who are listening right now who feel like, you know, they may be kind of stuck in the middle, what does influence look like when they don't have authority, they don't have a budget, or they may not have the title.

So the first thing, you know, I myself experienced periods of, you know, real frustration, right? And that comes back to, again, leading yourself. When you're frustrated like that, sometimes the only thing you can control is yourself. Sometimes that's a matter of finding a way out of that situation and into a new one. Or sometimes it is, you know, accepting the situation that you're in and trying to make the best of it and going through that process to really understand why you're reacting that way. But then also working to, you know, lead others by coming up with ideas work, building those relationships, building that network, you know, understanding the power dynamics of where you are so that you can really feel like you're starting to contribute more.

Yes.

And then that grows and snowballs.

Hmm.

One of the things towards the end of my career, as I was, you know, in a formal position of supervision, there were a number of people that were given to me because they were the hard cases. Right. They were people that other supervisors just could not work with. And I ended up writing an article for Wild Leaders, Whole and Intentional Leader Development, for their blog entitled "Tell Me Your Story." You know, recovering the unmanaged and misled. And one of the things that I found is that those people who were so intensely frustrated that they had become problem employees, A lot of it was because they felt nobody was listening to them.

Yes. Wow.

That they had had some sort of trauma in their career or their life, that they were just ignored, overlooked. Nobody cared about— nobody was there to support them. And what I found was I could start the conversation with, hey, I'm Chris, you know, we're going to be working together. Tell me your story.

Wow, such a powerful question.

Yeah, because they knew, you know, they had a reputation out there, but many of them had never actually had to explain how that reputation had come to be.

Wow.

And then it was a matter of understanding, okay, now that we understand your story, how are we going to work together? Understanding what motivates them, right? That's going back to my leading others. Because it's different for everybody. And how can we get you back engaged and get your mojo back and start to recover your reputation?

Wow.

And for almost all of them, we were successful in doing that.

That is really powerful. So really, it comes from a sense of caring, but also taking the time as the leader, right, to speak to your direct report. Because it's true that when you're at the top, you kind of very busy and everybody understands that. But no, in most organizations they say our people are our greatest asset. That's what they say, but that's not how they spend their time, their budget, or their energy. And it shows. Wow. So let's talk about bridging silos and organizational risk. You have worked across embassies, government, and large organizations. Why do silos exist and why are they so dangerous?

So silos exist because you have certain functions that need expertise, right? Also, you have like-minded people working on individual projects. I talked about earlier, you know, you've got sales, you've got marketing, you've got, you know, engineering, product development, you know, different things like that, or in an embassy, you have Economic Affairs, you know, the management office, the security office, the military offices, other, you know, agencies that are there, right? And you're all there to work on that thing, right? That individual thing. And you have a tendency in your day-to-day operations to focus on that. And you have some leaders out there, more like managers, who, you know, for various reasons, maybe it's budget, you're, because you're competing for budget against other, you know, organizations, other depart— excuse me, departments in the same organization, or maybe it's for prestige, or maybe it's for whatever else, you know, they have a tendency to wall themselves off and focus on just the performance of what they're doing.

Mm.

Okay. So that's why they exist. But that's why they become dangerous.

Yes.

Because if you don't understand how what your department is doing and how it affects the rest of the organization or other departments in it, right, then you can really run into problems. I was on a webinar with the Good Governance Academy a couple of months ago. Where I talked pretty extensively about this. And, you know, if you have, for instance, you know, your sales are starting to spike on a new product that you've got, but you're not talking to supply chain so they don't know, and manufacturing, so they don't know that, hey, we're about to sell out of this and how can we adjust this? Or, hey, this marketing strategy that went out is not working at all. And here's the customer feedback that we're getting. Right, to ensure that we can tweak this marketing using this customer feedback or tweak the product design based on this customer feedback. But if all you're concerned about is sales and your sales silo, you'll be in big trouble as an organization.

Absolutely. Now, I'm going to bring in just one of the chapters you wrote in Organizational Risk and Culture Standard. Can you tell us what does a strong risk culture actually look like in practice?

Alignment. In one word, alignment. So when you think about an organization and how it handles risk, you've got your policies and your procedures, right? You've got your mechanisms for evaluating risk and for making risk-based decisions. Yes, right. But, you know, culture eats strategy for breakfast every day.

Yeah, Peter Drucker. Yeah, yeah.

And the truth is, if your culture on how you manage risk is not aligned with your policies, your procedures, etc., then no matter what you have on paper really isn't going to matter. If people are punished for engaging in decisions that, you know, don't even violate the risk tolerance and risk appetite of the organization, but they're punished simply because they made that decision, even though it was appropriate for their level, they're going to know, why are we going to bother, you know, doing this I'll just, you know, not engage in it.

Hmm.

So, but at the same time, if you have alignment where, you know, ORCS, the Organizational Risk Culture Standard, allows organizations to measure how well risk management is embedded into their organizations on 10 different dimensions— leadership, training, communications, you know, etc. Right. If you actually have alignment then decisions get made faster, better decisions are made, more opportunities are able to be seized, more downsides are able to be mitigated or avoided.

So powerful. Earlier you mentioned we were talking about leaders and you did this for managers. I want to get back to that. What do you think is the difference between a manager and a leader? And I do believe we need both leaders and managers sometimes. The moment may ask you to, you know, step up and lead. But what's, what's the difference?

So first of all, programs need managers, right? You need to manage all of the different aspects of the budget, of the operations, of, you know, how everything is being done. Right? You need management for that. People need leaders.

Mm-hmm.

They need to be inspired. They need to be brought along. They need to be empowered to actually engage in those operations. There are too many people out there that think that they are leading people, but they're really just managing them. They're just putting using a person as a widget and putting it in a place and assuming that it's going to perform like the widgets do. But what they really need is leadership to empower them.

Yeah, I know he was Secretary of State, you mentioned him earlier, Colin Powell, but to me, he will always be the general. But one thing he taught us is with management, technically, you can get people up to 100% efficiency. Almost nobody does, but that's, that's, that's what you're supposed to go get an MBA and, and learn how to manage resources and things. However, he says leadership is different because with leadership you can actually get people to 110%. So it really goes above and beyond the theoretical limit. And that's really what you see, especially in the military, especially during times of crisis and war. You will see people, even again at a very junior level, they will just step up and they will go above and beyond. That's why you see those crazy people who get Medal of Honor, where there's fire, they're shooting on them, and they go back and they get their teammate. It's like they are living in a mental state where they are pretty much invincible, and they believe they can do the impossible. But they're just ordinary people, but it's just the moment calls on them, and they accept the challenge, and they just step up, and they— that just go above and beyond. It's really amazing to see.

Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, again, when I talked earlier about Tell Me Your Story and seeing some of those people really get back and become empowered instead of frustrated, it was, it was really so powerful.

Wow.

So how should leaders then think about risk today? In a world of artificial intelligence, cyber threats, and global instability?

You know, I don't know that risk has changed much. You got to understand, a lot of people misunderstand risk. So risk is uncertainty upon objectives. That can be either good or bad. A lot of people, especially in, you know, my background, in the security background, risk is always bad, right? We only look at the downsides of risk. We don't look at the, you know, potential upsides to making a risky decision, right?

Wow.

Um, but the fact is, risk is simply that uncertainty upon objectives.

Yes.

So what can you do, and what are the tools that you have to learn more to eliminate or reduce some of that uncertainty? So that you can then make better decisions. And these days, information is moving so fast, but we're also getting more and more tools to deal with that flood of information. You know, I use AI pretty regularly now to, you know, honestly, on a daily basis, to say not just Google searches, but to, you know, some of the AI platforms that are out there to get a better understanding and distill a lot of that information so that I can, you know, get a better sense of whatever topic I happen to be looking at. Right. Again, it's minimizing that uncertainty so that you can make better decisions, but also understanding you're never going to be able to eliminate that uncertainty.

Yes.

And there's too many people out there that hesitate to make decisions because they're uncomfortable with that uncertainty.

That is quite powerful. I was at a conference, I think it was 2 days ago, and someone said something like, the best computer is the computer that's not being used by anyone, because then there is absolutely no risk. And the best data is the data that's not being accessed by anybody. But the truth is, if you're going to be in business, you do have to turn on those computers and you do have to access data. So it's about manage it. Absolutely. But can't you also sometimes just accept the risk or even use, um, tools like insurance and transfer it to somebody else?

Absolutely. You know, and again, that's why you have insurance. You know, it's funny, working in the government, I had never heard of the concept of risk transference until I moved into the private sector. You know, the government is self-insured. Yes, it simply either accepts the risk or it doesn't do the you know, doesn't move on the objective, right? There is always, like I said before, there is always going to be some amount of residual risk, some factor that may either pop up or factors that you know about that you just can't, you know, eliminate and mitigate that uncertainty or that potential downside.

True.

Um, so yeah.

So then what's the difference then between organizations that treat risk as compliance? And I've seen so many of those versus those that actually embed risk into decision-making.

So when you treat risk as simply a compliance factor, you're not, you know, you just go through and you're checking off the boxes. A couple of things happen. Number one, there's a much actually increased chance that you'll miss something because, all right, we're just kind of going through, we're checking our boxes, we're, you know, half looking at it, etc.

Yes.

Now, what's important to understand here is that it's not just that you might miss something bad, right? You might miss something good. You might fail to recognize, hey, this is what we're trying to do. Here is our objective. But, you know, we've got some uncertainty on getting there. You know what, as we look across a broader field, there might be another path to that objective that's better and faster, or more certain than what you're looking at already. So yeah, when you look at that in that context, by treating it as compliance, you're really just undermining your overall efforts.

That is really insightful. We have our first question from the audience. Colin says, Christopher is right. One of the most underrated leadership mistakes is not listening. If you are in a place where a leader is on the verge of making the mistake of not listening, how do you approach them without sounding arrogant or being punished? Interesting question.

So number one, part of it is understanding the person you're engaged with. Who is that leader who is engaging in that behavior? Um, are they one that is willing to be approached and be reproached like that, right? If not, is there somebody else that, you know, I talked earlier about building your, building your relationships. Yes, right. Is there somebody else that that person has a relationship with that they might be more willing to listen to, that you can go to, maybe a deputy or somebody else like that, and say, hey, I have an issue with this, here's what it is, here's where it's a problem, can you put in a word for me?

I like that, you know.

Um, that's probably your best bet. Um, there may be times where you need to even go above that leader's head, and that is always dangerous.

Yes, right.

Um, because yeah, if there's something that is literally going to be dangerous for people, yes, proceed at your own risk. Yeah, proceed, proceed at your own risk and decide whether or not that particular issue is worth it for you.

Yeah, that's what I feel like the best leaders I've ever had, they really provide top cover for the people under them. Like, I really truly have your back.

Yeah, it's funny you mentioned because one of the— especially towards the end of my career as I was supervising more people, one of the things that I always talked to them about in the in-briefing was part of my job is to get you top cover to do what you need to get done. To make us successful.

Yes. Yes.

You know, to make sure that you get the credit that you deserve when, you know, something goes right, but make sure that I'm providing the top cover and accepting the blame when something goes wrong.

Yes. Because I think in the military you do see it quite a lot. Some commanding officer would put their own credibility on the line for their sailors. And when you see somebody like that, you're going to be willing to follow them to the end of the earth and even to hell if you have to, because you know that they really mean what they say. They really truly have your back. Whereas many other people, they're like, oh no, I'm going to cover my own back. Good luck. And okay, we are already running out of time. I can't believe this. One more question from the audience. This is from Daniel Young, a very active member of our tribe here. He says, scaling pyramids, Blueprint for the messy middle. How can siloed leaders align pyramids and surface truth across levels while still protecting their credibility and promotability before systemic breach? Very good question.

So yeah, as I understand the question, you know, if you're sitting there in a silo, right, and, you know, you need to be able to reach across them, Again, the first thing is build relationships, build understanding, you know, spend some time, drop by somebody's desk. Hey, help me understand what you guys are working on. And, you know, let's maybe— what I can— what can I do to, you know, help you out? There's other forms for that too, though. The dreaded C-word: committees. Who loves to be on a committee?

No one.

Instead, let's call them working groups. Or let's call them, you know, cross-functional, you know, project teams, right? Building the relationships within those forums to establish trust and credibility can really help you then when you want to branch out of that particular forum and build it on a more personal basis.

Yes.

Right. So that you can then reach out of your silo and help others understand how their silo affects the other silos in the organization and, you know, work it through.

That is really insightful because I think sometimes with the silos, we get to only focus on the trees and we lose sight of the forest, how everything comes together.

Absolutely.

Because I kind of have two leadership mantras. One is mission first, because the mission does need to be accomplished. That's the reason why we are on the payroll, but then people always, right? Always, always take care of your people. They will take care of the mission. But then my second mantra is one team, one fight, because you're right, many times in organization, instead of collaborating, you start to compete against the other business function across the organization and you end up pointing fingers, blaming everybody, and that really detracts the entire organization from their main and core mission, doesn't it?

You know, absolutely. And, you know, one of the— I think the two most dangerous phrases that you can have in an organization is, 'Not my problem, not my job.' Yes, yes. Right. When you get people who see a problem and have a potential solution, but they're like, 'You know what, not my problem, not my job.' Yeah, yeah.—

who leave work exactly at 5:00 because it is the end of the workday. But yes.

There's that, but there's also the question of what is it about your organizational culture that promotes that? How have you managed to reinforce your silos to the extent that they are willing to let the organization fail?

Wow.

Not my problem, not my job.

That is really, really insightful. We can be going on for another hour, but we need to end this podcast. Can I get maybe 5, 7 more minutes?

Yeah, no, absolutely.

Okay, thank you. So for this last segment of the podcast, I kind of want to get into your head and your mindset and see which leadership principle you follow to allow you to have as much success as as you have achieved so far. So one of the questions I will ask then is, what do you believe is one of the greatest leadership lessons you've— well, it doesn't have to be a leadership lesson, just one of the greatest lessons you have ever learned, whether it's in leadership, in life, or in general?

I think, you know, probably servant leadership is one of them. Understanding, you know, caring for others.

Yes.

Building those relationships, empowering people, helping them to get where they're trying to go. Um, is some of the strongest, you know, lessons that I've learned.

Yeah, I think it was Zig Ziglar who said something like, no, if you help enough people get what they want, then you will get everything you, you want. That is so powerful.

And let me be clear, I have not always been, you know, the best leader. I've been— had— went through times in my career where I was incredibly frustrated, right? Where I overreacted to being frustrated and not being, you know, a great leader. But luckily, I've had mentors and friends and coaches who have been willing to step into my life and say, you know, What is, you know, Chris, there's something going on here and you need to pay attention to it. And then that comes back to leading myself and doing that deep work necessary to improve again so I can then—

I like that.

Powerful.

What do you believe is the secret to your success?

I'll go again back to the relationships. You know, I see Mike Gibbs asking a question in there. You know, building my relationships, finding good mentors, being open-minded. I have a lot of, you know, I'm pretty widely read. You know, my dirty little, you know, passion is probably spy novels, but I do a lot of histories, biographies, things like that. I try to keep a very open mind. And really research different topics that I'm looking into.

I like that. Again, everyone, we want everybody to get a copy of the book Scaling Pyramids for sure. But you also wrote Kindness Game, and I think we definitely need to be kind. And also, we talked about the organizational risk and culture standard. But which book, like Michael is asking, what is your favorite book outside of your own book? If you could recommend one one book to my audience, which one would that be?

You know what, one of them that I really enjoyed is The Innovators by Walter Isaacson.

Hmm. Yes.

Yeah, it's— it really, you know how I'm trying to think exactly of the subtitle, but basically how a, you know, group of geeks, you know, changed the world.

Yes.

But one of the things it talks about in there is almost nobody did it on their own. These massive innovations that they had. Right? They were almost always working with or influenced by others, able to collaborate in ideas. But the other thing that I really like about it was how it talked about how the people who really made the Information Age revolution—

yes—

drew on ideas from different disciplines. It wasn't just computer science, it was music, it was art, It was, you know, different things like that that really helped rewire the brain in different ways to be able to see things in different lights. So really fantastic book.

Well, that is really powerful because, yeah, I have read that book. I probably need to read that again. I know Isaacson, he's written another book even on 'Elon Musk and Steve Jobs.' So this is a book you are talking about. Yeah. How a group of hackers, geniuses, and geeks created the digital revolution. So, so powerful. But now let me ask you this, like Bill Gates has been one of my heroes, founder, chairman of Microsoft. And lately we found out about some of his association definitely tarnished his reputation quite a bit. What do you think is the importance of character, especially when you think Nobody's watching.

Character is incredibly important. Again, I talked earlier about the hallway reputation. You know, your reputation precedes you. It is very, very hard to build and very easy to shatter. Yes, right. Um, and you know, character, really a lot of people define it as, you know, um what you do when you think nobody else is looking, you know, um, and does that character align to the public persona that you portray?

Yes.

So it is, you know, very important to, to keep that in mind and also to try to avoid putting yourself in situations where your character is going to be compromised.

True. True. Yeah, because I know there's a Bible verse that says anything that's done in the darkness will eventually be put to the light, and anybody who ever sent Jeffrey Epstein an email regrets that today. But yeah, and one thing my grandma told me, right? No, my mother. No, whenever you think nobody is watching or you're about to make a stupid decision, always think, no, what would my grandma think about this? Or what would happen if this was published in the paper tomorrow or something?

But And I'll throw this out too. Are you willing to give grace?

Hmm.

Meaning when somebody does something that is out of character, are you willing to give them grace to say, you know, is this really who they are, or was this a mistake, or did they not really know what they— who were they were involved with, or, you know, what they were up to, right? Because the hope is that when you make a mistake, others will give you grace as well.

I like that. I like that. And what are you learning these days? I know leaders are learners.

Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting. When I left the State Department, and decided to open my security consulting firm, I knew a lot about running security operations, didn't know a whole lot about running a security business. So I went and I got an MBA. And that has really opened up a lot to me as well. Because it allows me to have conversations at that C-suite level more effectively, understand, you know, the goals, objectives, and operations for business.

I like that.

Currently, I'm looking at— I'm back to looking at some crisis management things as I prepare for a talk that I'm about to give for one of my clients. And I'm looking at learning their crisis management structure and looking at what are some of the major failures and successes in crisis management that would apply to their organization.

Correct.

So doing some research on that.

Wow.

Wonderful.

And is there maybe a book, a song, or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

That's tough. You know, at one point I had, you know, said, I think I had emailed you and said that Quite frankly, the Marvel Cinematic Universe is kind of my dirty pleasure, my guilty pleasure, because, you know, let's be honest, the world needs heroes.

Yes.

And the world needs to, you know, to understand that those heroes are fallible and imperfect, just like—

who's your number one hero?

You know, growing up, I was very into the X-Men comic books. And, you know, again, you've got a team working together and they're kind of the underdogs and the outcasts and things like that. Um, you know, Marvel Cinematic Universe, um, you know, I think Captain America, uh, be it Steve Rogers, um, you know, or, uh, Sam Wilson, um, are both excellent representations.

Yes, I, I like it. For me, it's always been, uh, Spider-Man and Superman growing up. But okay, yeah, so we are coming toward the, the end of the show, but let me ask you this: if you had one and only one one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Um, I would prob— I would actually say, you know, it's an interesting question because I've never really thought about it before. My final contribution would be to my family. Yes. To spend as much time as I could, you know, with those closest to me that I love the most.

I like that. Yeah, I know in Silicon Valley we get so busy, but one good thing I think that came out of COVID was people realized what was really important, and it's not work. Yeah, and anyway, and so if you had a magic wand, you could solve any problem in the world, what is the one problem you would like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

If I could solve one thing right away, um, it would probably be world hunger. Um, you know, the number of people around the world and even just, um, here in the United States that, you know, don't have the means to eat good nutritious food.

Yes.

To, you know, that it— hunger and nutrition affects so many things about, you know, mental development, social development, physical development, you know, etc. Um, and if you truly want people to be successful, first thing they got to be able to do is eat.

Yeah. And we have the most powerful and wealthiest country in the world. It is really, really sad. No, I am originally from Africa, and of course we are used to receiving USAID and all of that. But last December, when our government shut down and they were talking about completely getting rid of food stamps and so forth, and they said, what was it, 40 million kids in America would go hungry. I heard of some African kids saying, hey, we need to send some food to those American kids. They are going to die of hunger. That was insightful, but it also made me so sad. How in our own country with all of the wealth we have, we just cannot do something about that. But wow.

Yeah.

Okay. So if you had the ear of every middle manager across America right now, what is one thing you would tell them to do tomorrow morning to scale their influence?

Build relationships.

Again.

Build relationships across silos. Not just within your own. Understand how your organization actually works and understand how to navigate it.

Powerful. All right. We are coming to the end, Chris. What can we do to add value back to you? Thanks so much for giving us so much wisdom and insight today. How can we add value back to you?

So, you know, again, please, if you would do so, purchase a copy of my book. It's available on Amazon. It's available from Routledge. It's available from lots of different places because it was actually published by CRC Press, Routledge. Thanks to Dan Swanson, the series editor, for taking a chance on me for that. But also, you know, I'm trying to get this message out about scaling pyramids and about crisis management and, you know, things like that. So I'm definitely looking for speaking opportunities. You know, if your organization is looking for someone to help you with leadership development, especially at the, you know, entry and mid-levels, or if you're looking for somebody who can help guide your senior levels into developing the leaders below them, please reach out.

Fantastic. So as we get to end the show, is there a question I should have asked you, Chris? I didn't get a chance to ask anything else you wanted to share.

This was pretty broad-ranging. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I sincerely appreciate your interviewing style and the broad range of topics we were able to cover today.

Absolutely. So I think this is probably one of the most important questions I ask. If you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self, standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had, government, Fortune 500, and now your own business and consulting. What would you say to 17-year-old Christopher?

Probably it's not going to turn out how you envision it now. Make sure you take time to enjoy the ride.

Enjoy the ride. Wow, so powerful. I like that. I like that. Okay, if we can end, it's going to take less than a couple of minutes with rapid fire. So I'm going to ask you a question, give me the first thing that comes to your mind really, really quick. So what is one word that defines great leadership? One word.

One word. Listening.

Okay. Morning routine practice that keeps you grounded.

Uh, I often take time first thing in the morning to actually do a couple of the New York Times puzzles on their app, and I've shared the scores with my brother and a couple other people Pretty cool.

But it seems like—

in a different way.

Yes, that's probably why LinkedIn now has a bunch of puzzles and games too. I used to do them. I probably need to do that again. Is there maybe a book or a quote that changed your life?

A book or a quote that changed my life? You know, again, I like The Innovators a lot because it really gave me that viewpoint, but also that podcast or the TED Talk that I mentioned earlier on multipotentialites. That I'm not broken. I am just interested in lots of things.

Do you remember who was the TEDx speaker?

I do not recall, but if you look up—

Yeah, I should be able to find it. Yeah, I try to get them on my show as well. About 3 weeks ago, I had the number 1 TED and TEDx speaker in the world. I think more than 200 million views from England. Julian Treasure, he was on my podcast. It was just Fascinating. I couldn't believe he actually said yes. So when I see them, I just say, hey, come on the podcast. If they say no, no problem. But if they say yes, that could be life-changing because—

Well, hopefully someday I can do my own TED Talk and then come back on your podcast.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I almost had mine on November 2024, but then the Navy called me back on active duty. So I just couldn't make it. And that one was pretty special. I didn't know they had TEDxYouth. So that wasn't for the big guys, but I think it was a high school in the Bay Area. And I am so passionate about the next generation. But anyway, I'm sure I will have the opportunity again. Who inspires you most today, Chris?

Who inspires me most today? You know, number one, I'll say Mike Gips. He has been such an incredible friend and mentor as I've made this transition from government service into the private sector. But also, you know, I truly am inspired by my kids and, you know, the things that they're engaged in and how the relationships they're building and how they're approaching life.

What is a question every leader should ask themselves frequently?

What am I missing?

And is there a leadership habit you refuse to compromise on?

I think the leadership habit that I refuse to compromise on is, uh, probably servant leadership. Yes, right. The goal there is to make sure that I am helping and empowering others, because again, there's a difference between management and leadership.

Yes.

Um, and you know, I can manage others all day long, but if I want to truly want to lead them, I need to serve them.

Because it makes me— it reminds me of what Maya Angelou taught Oprah, right? People will forget everything you say, but they will never ever forget the way you made them feel. And there are those few leaders in your career, like I said, you would follow them to the end of the earth just because of how they made you feel and how they really cared for you. It's incredible. Okay, what did you want to be when you were a kid?

So when I was about 5 years old, I told my parents that I wanted to be an FBI agent. And it's funny because I was following that course to apply to the FBI when suddenly somebody told me about the Diplomatic Security Service. And I said, oh man, I can do investigations like the FBI, I can do, uh, yeah, like the Secret Service, but my jurisdiction is the whole world.

Yes.

Where do I sign up for that? Absolutely.

I think being a special agent for the Department of State is pretty, pretty close.

Yeah, no, it's— and I worked a lot with the FBI. The medal over my shoulder is actually the FBI Medal for Meritorious Achievement.

Wow.

It's a longer story we don't have time for, but what is the shot of it working with other agencies? What was that?

What is the shot of it?

I was with a group that involved a couple of two FBI agents as well. And one of my local investigators at the post I was at that we ran across a kidnapping in progress and decided to intervene. We ended up rescuing the victim, arresting one of the perpetrators, and turning it over to local law enforcement.

That is really, really powerful. I think when you work for the government, you know, I'm probably going to be retiring this year. One thing I would definitely miss is the opportunity to impact the national security of the most powerful country in the world, but also to actually impact the lives of people, you know, sometimes life or death. There's just nothing like it. But, uh, wow. Okay, uh, uh, 3 adjectives describing you as a child.

Um, 3 adjectives describing me as a child. Um, precocious. Um, let me think.

Uh, energetic.

One more.

And I would say Annoying.

What about as an adult?

As an adult, hopefully thoughtful, reflective, and helpful.

I like that. Okay, so this is the very end, but I like to end on a very positive note. What is something you are feeling optimistic about?

I really am feeling optimistic about the potential for the future.

Yes.

You know, I really think that, you know, as I've managed to make this transition and I'm starting to grow the Crisis Lead business and as I'm starting to, you know, get more into the leadership speaking, I really do feel as though I'm connecting with people and that my message is able to get out there.

Powerful. Okay. The very, very last question, and this is it. One word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today.

I'd have to go with insightful.

Insightful. Well, I am always, always so, so grateful. Thank you so much, Chris. And you have a lot of people who love you in the audience. Lee Alton says, "C.D. is the man." You are the man. Thank you for your time and thank you for sharing your wisdom with us, sir. Really appreciate that.

Thank you so much. You know, the best thing about a good coach is how they ask questions that get you to really examine, you know, what you're doing inside. So, you know, what's actually going on inside. So, you're awesome at that. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Really appreciate that. All right. That's one for the book. Everyone, and again, I encourage everybody to, if you have to buy only one book, get this one, Scaling Pyramid: Leadership Lessons from a Mid-Level Bureaucrat. And you're going to learn so much about leadership, not just as an individual, but how you lead others and then how you lead an organization. And again, you don't have to have a title and you don't have to have a budget. You don't have to have formal authority. You can influence yourself and the people around you. And I also encourage you to also look into the Kindness Game, how a single post changed our mindset about community, because I think it really comes down to your community and of course organizational risk. And culture standard as well. And make sure to follow Chris. He's available on LinkedIn. Send him connection requests and watch all of his posts. That's linkedin.com/christopherstem. All right, so this is the end of our show today. And as you guys know, we always celebrate Black History Year is what I call it, because 28 days for Black History Month is just not enough. So the one thing, uh, I am going to celebrate today— I think I, for some reason, I am logged out of my LinkedIn. That is very strange. Let's see if we can fix this really, really quick. Uh, huh, I wonder if somebody is trying to get into my, uh, LinkedIn. Account. Okay. All right. Yes, yesterday. So as you guys know, I do this in two tiers, right? Number one, I think about today, what happened today in Black history. That's one. And then I also think about a first in African American history. So from the post I wrote yesterday, I believe we talked about Let me find that really quick. Okay, here we go. The first elected African American judge in US history. And you can go to my post and find out more about this, but it was this man right here, Miffin Gibbs, the very, very first judge in the US who was African American. And then on today's date, April 10th, It was really courage under fire. The legend, the celebrity Nat King Cole was attacked on stage in Birmingham, Alabama by members of the KKK. And Nat King Cole was a very, very big, big, big star. He was singing to, I think it was about 3,000, 4,000 white people, his concert, and some racists there from Alabama went and attacked him. I have a very short video to play to remember that, but this is going to be the end of the show. Later today, in a couple hours, I'm gonna be speaking to Coach Shanna Fuggerhaus. She's a heart-centered transformation coach, relationship architect, and healing guide. We're gonna be talking from survival to self-mastery, leading from the undivided heart. And I believe tomorrow, I'm gonna go back to the book of Proverbs. We're studying Proverbs chapter 22. This one is going to be all produced by artificial intelligence. We're gonna have about a 15-20 minute recap with AI. If you guys remember, on January 22nd, we went through the entire chapter of Proverbs 22. It took about an hour, and we talked about— it wasn't a religious broadcast, but ancient wisdom and leadership lesson from the book of Proverbs. So we're going to continue that tomorrow. And then on Sunday, I have also confirmed one more interview. Let me see if I can find her. I am gonna be speaking to a Maxwell Leadership Coach on Sunday. Let me find her. Dr. Knott. So I would like, like, it's gonna be Sunday afternoon. I would like you to join us live if you can. So her and I have been mentored by Dr. John C. Maxwell, the number one leadership coach in the world, really. And she's a transformational leadership coach, educator, and growth strategist. We're gonna be talking about leading on purpose, what that looks like, the power of intentional growth. So that's gonna be Dr. Rachel Nutt. So I hope you can join us for that. So I'm gonna play the short couple of minutes clip about Nutt King Cole, and that's gonna be the end for today. And I hope to see you in a couple of hours. When we speak live with Coach Shana Fuggerhaus later today. Okay, bye for now.

Well, I've been playing music for probably, I would say, like 40 years, I guess, as long as I can remember. I was a young a teenager. The older musicians that I played with, they were constantly worried about whether or not they would be harassed. It was always a lesson in, "This is what you do, this is what you don't do." I was getting rules that were handed down for generations. You take a break, you don't go into the vicinity of where the people are that you're playing for. You need to eat something, you go out and eat it, and then you come back in when it's time for you to play.

A superstar like Nat King Cole, who sold millions of records worldwide and had his own national TV show, still had to deal with the same restrictions. And even playing by the rules wasn't enough to overcome the threat of violence.

Nat King Cole was, first of all, an incredible musician. I look at him as is being the first true crossover artist. Nat King Cole was performing for an all-white audience right here in this very place, in the Boutwell Auditorium, in 1956, and he was attacked.

Cole was in the middle of performing when a group of white men from the audience, members of an offshoot of the KKK, rushed onstage and knocked him to the floor. The men were apprehended comprehended by security. Cole stopped his performance.

As I understand, the majority of them wanted to hear Nat play, and they begged him to come back on stage after he went off stage for a while to check himself out to see if he was okay. But Nat said he was in pain, and he did not come back out to perform. Very interesting to be a star on one hand and to just be 3/4 of a man, on the other hand, so to speak, he had to stay in his place. Can you imagine? He could have a white promoter, white manager, but he still had to deal with being Black.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach Bizi. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.