S5E49🎙️ LIVE with Brand L. Elverston, USA (Vet.) (Multi Tracks Audio)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple, to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to Welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ. Shoplifters, if you're watching the news, if you like to watch the news, here's a warning for you. Your favorite crime is now a felony. The Sac County Sheriff even saying out of 1,000 people arrested this year on these shoplifting crimes, only 8 of them were homeless. So how much will this bill really help?

I think it goes a long way in putting consequence back to what, uh, frankly, since— what was it, 10 years ago— Proposition 47 came out, which really took the guidelines and the guardrails off of theft in the stores. So fast forward 10 years, it's obviously a problem. Even as you just said, 70% of the voting public is for this. So Yeah, it's time that, you know, retailers were allowed to put meat back on the bone and providing consequence to some of these instances of theft. As you see on the video, just walking in casually, taking what you like and walking out. So it'll take time, as you know, to let this bake in and see if it's really going to make a difference. But it's absolutely a move in the right direction.

And as we mentioned, just setting this up, there are mandatory mental health resources. But one thing that the DA in Sacramento County at least has said is that It's been so hard to get people to actually comply with some of those resources. They want to help people who are addicted, who they may be fueling their addiction with this theft, or at least financing the drugs with this theft. What does California need to do and what can be done to actually allow for more success instead of recidivism?

I think what's gonna matter is following through with the law. In other words, prosecuting, and I think it's up to 3 years now, the felony jail sentences have been extended. So sure, the, you know, whether you have it being actually deterring that or the rehabilitation through the drug component of this, it's gonna take time to see, but it's all up to the state of California and the local municipalities, the district attorneys you just mentioned, to actually push this through. And make it visibly consequential in the stores to see if it's actually going to make a difference or not. So I think the jury is kind of still out. Retailers that I've talked to about this are kind of like, okay, let's wait and see. It's certainly a move in the right direction, but we're going to have to wait and see. I don't think we're going to see a stampede of retailers rushing back to California that may have left due to the surge in theft, and more importantly, I know theft's a problem, but is the violence.

Yeah, well, we're seeing some of the videos of that violence now, and you actually already answered my next question.

Okay, welcome to another special edition of the Leadership and Success Podcast. We have a very special guest with us right here waiting in the green room, and before I introduce him, as is our tradition here, we want to spend just a moment to be grateful. We are grateful every single time that we meet here. So if you would maybe close your eyes, take a deep breath, and think about one thing you are grateful for right now. And today I am really grateful for second chances, right? I am so grateful that in life we don't always do the right thing, but when you fall, you almost always have an opportunity to get back up again, right? Your past doesn't have to determine your future. So I am so grateful for that. So if you would type in the comment and let me know where you are joining us from, what city, what state, and if you are outside of the US, which country, and also what you are grateful for. And if you have a question for my guest, please type it in the comment and we will answer. Your question live. So let me see if I can properly introduce my guest today. Today I am really honored and privileged, overjoyed to be speaking to Major Brand Elverson, US Army veteran, retail innovation strategist. That's why I showed you the picture, sought after. Sometimes I even speak on newscasts like News Nation about what happened in the world of retail. He's a global speaker, a best-selling author, and spent over 20 years at Walmart Technology Integration, driving asset protection strategy, technology integration, and operational execution at scale. All right, so he's now the founder and principal of Elverson Consulting, where he helps senior leaders navigate the complex intersection of risk mitigation, retail innovation, and disruptive technology. So Brand also serves in advisory role with industry organization, universities, and technology innovator, helping shape the future of retail operation and security. And I just found out we We actually have the same alma mater, the University of Alabama. Roll Tide, roll! All right, without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Major Brent Elverson.

Hey guys, thank you.

Fantastic. I'm so, so, so glad you are here. And again, I apologize to everyone. The reason why we went a little bit, uh, started a little bit late today is because of me, but I am so glad you are still here and you are again, to talk to us. I guess to get started, Major, as you know, part of the reason why I always start with a moment of gratitude, as you know, in the military, it's about 21, 22 service members and veterans who commit suicide in this country every single day. And I think it's not possible to be suicidal and be grateful at the same time. So just to get started, Major, what is one thing you are grateful for today?

Being grateful also, in addition to being the most proud professional thing I've ever done, was having the privilege of serving in uniform and being an Army officer. And, you know, I've had that question sometimes in corporate, 22 years in corporate, 12, so I actually had twice the number of years in a suit than boots. And my answer is always the same. I'm like, look, I'm not sorry. I'm most proud of having the privilege of serving in the US Army.

So thank you. It is, it is really amazing. And I know some service members, sometimes they don't like to be called a hero. I completely understand that. But in my mind, right, just serving your country even for a day in uniform, in my mind, that makes you an American patriot and really a hero because you are willing to put your life on the line for all of your fellow Americans. It's less than 1% of us that do that. So I am so grateful for your service, sir. If I was to ask you, what is maybe something about you that most people may not know when they first meet you?

Oh, well, started my professional career as a police officer, actually, at the ripe age of 18 in Albemarle County, Virginia.

Really?

Charlottesville, essentially. And did that for about 18 months. And as most mothers do, they have a different plan. And that was over. And that's when she went to Auburn, interestingly, and I wound up at University of Alabama. And she said, look, you can, you can be a police officer, honorable profession, but you're going to do it after you have a 4-year degree. Wow. So, um, yeah, that's, that's one thing I don't share, but you know, I'm It obviously helped make me who I am. So it was a great ride.

I thought that there was an age limit in becoming a police officer. I didn't know you could be a police officer so young. That's pretty incredible.

Well, keep in mind that was, uh, 1979. So, wow, uh, a little bit different rules, I'm sure, than today.

Yes, man, to protect and to serve. And how did you end up joining the U.S. Army?

ROTC scholarship competition. So my mom worked at the Judge Advocate General's School in Charlottesville. So from as long as I can remember, I had exposure to military, even though it's JAG. I was, you know, when she would babysit me or, you know, she couldn't get a babysitter, I would go and, you know, spend time with her at the office. So I was exposed to it. But then when the time came to go to college, as you may know from my first book, single-parent household, and money was tight. So being realistic about going to college, the ROTC scholarship was my path. The interesting twist is I went to basic training at Fort Knox. You showed that picture. And then went to the University of Alabama. And I was 2 months into the ROTC program at Bama before I was informed I did not get the scholarship. And I was already in love with college, ROTC. And I can hear my mom's voice clear as a bell right now. She said, baby— because she was from Alabama— she's like, baby, don't worry about it. You stay, you study hard, and we'll make it work. Wow. So, huh.

But I thought once you were a part of the ROTC program, scholarship was guaranteed, because I know at UA we had both the Army and the Air Force ROTC program there.

No, it's not a guarantee.

Wow, interesting, because my story, I was a student at UE, I was 17 years old, and I tried to join the Army ROTC back then, and they're like, no, you can't join, you're not a US citizen, absolutely not. And then what was strange is because of the assessment I took as a freshman, the very first math class I took was Math 125, which was calculus, which is usually the last class most people take, but it was the first one I did. Very, very easy actually. It was just a reminder of everything I did in high school. Anyway, about half of my class, they were all ROTC students and they had to have at least a B in the class and they were struggling so much. So I mentored quite a few of them and helped them pass it. But anyway, Uh, just thinking, thinking back, quite an interesting, uh, story. And then in the Army, did you actually choose field artillery or did the Army choose that for you?

The latter. The Army chose it for me. And you know, when I got it, I wanted to be MP. When we filled out our dream sheets as, I guess, MS-4 cadets, I wanted to be an MP only because that's what I knew at that point in time. I'd been a police officer. I thought, okay, Yeah, that makes sense. The rationale was you're very good in math and you've been selected to be regular Army field artillery. And I didn't know what regular Army versus reserve meant.

Yes.

So I was selected for active duty and again, zero regrets. Very— a great career field, field artillery. I always say it's typically the smarter guys that go to field artillery.

Yes.

Wow.

That is quite amazing. Now, in my path, I knew I wanted to do something with computers, which I ended up doing both enlisted and officers. But now, for those who are listening to us now, there are many veterans who transition into business leadership after they leave the service or retire. But what were some of the biggest leadership lessons you carried from the military into the corporate world? And you've gone all the way up now to the highest level of the corporate world, especially in the retail industry? What lesson you carried with you?

I think it's those directly transferable skills, and I know a previous guest of yours, Lieutenant General Beagle, in his book recently published, When the Map Runs Out.

Yeah.

To me, it's character, the discipline of execution, and I got to tell you, I never struggled with understanding priorities in military service. As a field artillery officer, understood my most critical number one was safe delivery of nuclear weapons. Second to that, conventional weapons. And we clearly understood the difference between critical, important, and routine. And my time in suits— and again, you know, I'm very open about this with them— we never figured that out. Everything was important, therefore nothing's important in my time as civilian sector. And, you know, the old saying, you're probably familiar with it in the Navy, you have a choice. You can do 100 things half, you know what, or you can do 10 things really well.

Yes.

You pick. And so that my, my, my learnings are the discipline around execution is really a strength that when you put on a suit that you take for granted, so many things we veterans take for granted when we hang up our BDUs and put on a suit.

Yes.

That discipline around execution, figuring things out with very little guidance. Um, those types of skills. And of course, the character. Yes, characters. You— that's got to be your balance being—

it is really amazing. But definitely, as an officer, regardless of a branch of the military, leadership is an emphasis. But I've seen since I started as an E-1, right, lowest rank in the entire military, even as a seaman recruit, I felt like the Navy was preparing me to lead, if nobody else. Influence myself. And, uh, it's, uh, definitely— I guess JFK is the one who said there is nothing more rewarding than serving in uniform. He definitely mentioned the US Navy, but I think any— absolutely any branch of the military, for sure. Even if you just do it for like a couple of years and then you, you go back into your civilian life. So what, what I'd like to, to know then, Major, is as a field artillery officer You were responsible for very complex operation and mission execution. I believe you were deployed to Afghanistan as well. What leadership principles from that environment still guide your decisions today?

That, that's an easy one. Look over your left shoulder. Yes, General Colin Powell, his 13 principles of leadership, I think initially published in '89-ish, but I really became familiar with those after I had finished both my commands. I had two battery artillery commands in Germany, and I— my last assignment was Fort Sill as an instructor in the gunnery department. And that's when the intensity slowed down a bit. No longer troop-driven, you know, alerts and all that, but I was an instructor. And that's when I first became familiar with General Powell's 13 Principles of Leadership. Wow. And that guides me to this day. And the one that I really put my arms around initially was the first one that I'm going to paraphrase, but basically, don't panic, sleep on it, it's always better in the morning. Yes, yes. And I have to laugh, that would have been great advice for me to have as a young battery commander in Germany. Yes. Colin Powell, you know, all of his books, My American Journey, those 13 principles of leadership really did sink in when I was, you know, wow, in my transition at Fort Sill. Awesome leader, incredible leader.

That is really, really amazing. My American Journey, that's the first book I read from the general, and I was so fortunate to have met him. I think it was in 2015. I would never forget that. It was in Atlanta. And he was the kind of person, even when he just enters the room, it's almost as if the molecular configuration of the room just changes. He doesn't have to open his mouth or say a word. It's just the charisma. It was just incredible. And it was so unbelievable when you met him in person with everything he had achieved at the time. He had already been Secretary of State, of course, chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, 4-star general and all of that, but he would just treat you like you are the most important person in the room when he was there. It's just incredible. Really, really miss him so much. But that's another reason why we really love books here at Leadership Success Podcast. And I'm so glad you've already written 2 books and we're going to be talking about them, Proclivity, and also your latest one, which is quite interesting, Instrument of Ignorance: What Got Us Here Will Not Get Us There. We're definitely going to talk about it. But let me ask you, Major, so in the military, we do often talk about clarity of mission and unity of effort, right? I believe the Navy stole it from the Army, I'm pretty sure. One of our leadership maxims is mission first, people always. I'm pretty sure we got it from the Army. But anyway, how can corporate leaders apply those same principles inside large organizations? For example, you were an executive at Walmart. How would you be able to apply similar leadership principle in a non-military environment?

Yeah, one of the things that I— a skill, I guess you could call it a skill— that I developed early on is I always got my energy and motivation from the soldiers I led. And I know a lot of people would disagree with that statement. You know, you, you have to have energy with your boss and the boss's boss because they're your senior leaders.. And I get that. But, you know, in tough times, my litmus test was always the performance of my soldiers. That gave me direct, as you well know, and any veteran knows this, that's unfiltered feedback. Soldiers don't PC a lot of what they say. So, you know, I think that authenticity and that open door, again, comparing the two professions, you know, suits to boots. It's a bit more of a challenge in the civilian world. You can tell, I can tell a veteran from a mile away. Just the way they carry themselves, their discipline, the specificity, the brevity.

And don't forget the haircut, but yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that specificity in being able to have clarity. And again, I'll mention General Beagle again. He's very— I had lunch with him, I don't know, 2, 3 weeks ago, went up to Kansas City to actually meet him. And it's the first time in my life, I'll have to tell you, that I was ever comfortable sitting there for any time with a general officer. Because as you know, as a subordinate, you want to minimize the time you spend with a general officer. You're there to take notes and execute.

Yes.

And I could talk to him all day long. And so that authenticity has got to be the headline.

I am thinking him now. I hope he's watching us live. He often does. Now, I just met him for the very first time, I guess maybe it was November, I believe, of last year, but it's as if I've known him my entire life. They are just people like that. The way they lead, they carry themselves, it's like, wow, when I grow up, I want to be just like him. It's incredible. And I know I still see from time to time, no, now that I'm a commander, some flag officer, they kind of want me to call them by their first name, but I just cannot do it.

I just can't. Thank you for saying that. He's like, 'Brandon, call me Biggs.' And I'm like, 'Sir, I cannot do that.' Yes, yes, always gonna be very, very general.

It's, it's really, uh, incredible. Like, if even O-6s— no, I remember because I, I was in, uh, and E-4, so Petty Officer Third Class, when I first met my first O-6 mentor. So, you know, he stayed my mentor until now, and then he eventually retired. So now I am able to call him by his first name, but it was difficult, very, very difficult to me to always be Captain because it really means something.

It's a measure of respect the way I look at it. I just like, I'm just not going to be comfortable with that, and I'm okay with it.

But now let's talk about all of the great work you've done in corporate leadership, especially at Walmart, right? More than 20 years. And you have said after the clip I played, even things happening in California and across the country that has to do with retail, journalists and TV stations seek you out because you are such an expert. Can you maybe tell us over the last 20 years you spent at Walmart, helping shape asset protection strategy and technology integration. What were some of the biggest operational challenges you had to solve at that scale?

I think you just said it, solving challenges at that scale. You know, it's not new, you know, from military service when, you know, as a battery commander or a battalion S3 or, you know, higher, it's the ability to ferret out the so what and get to the meat of what you're trying to solve. Because in the corporate world, you know, you're surrounded, at least in my experience, with a lot of really smart engineers and, you know, statisticians and legal and HR and everybody. If you allow it, the narrative can be hijacked. And before you know it, you're walking out of a meeting like, what are we doing?

Yes.

And so I think veterans bring, well, I know veterans bring that, that so what, if you will, to the table that after a meeting, all right, so what?

Yes.

What are we doing? Here was our problem when we walked in the room. What are the actions we're taking? Forget all this other ancillary stuff.

Yes.

What addresses the problem? So that was a challenge more so after about 2005, '06. Early days at Walmart, I was very comfortable because it was very intense, not a whole lot of bureaucracy, very precise directive from what we called our Norman Schwarzkopf, was our chairman back then. He was very much like that, language and all, and I was comfortable with that. I knew what he meant. I didn't need, you know, a 38-page PowerPoint in 42 meetings. I knew But, you know, things get more complicated. Technology introduces sometimes complexity. So that was always the headwind, bureaucracy and staying true to the specific mission that you're trying to accomplish. That's the challenge.

That is really key. You know, I speak about 8 to 12 times every year, usually security conferences and many times when I talk and I ask people from Fortune 500 companies from all across an industry, I ask them, okay, who can tell me what the core values of their organization is? Less than 1% know what those values are. Whereas not like you, I'm sure I can wake you up at 3 o'clock in the morning and ask you, hey soldier, what are the core values of a US soldier? You will recite it just like that. Same thing for me in the Navy, I don't know, courage, commitment. I guess you guys in the army, It's more like 7. Always do extra, right? You soldiers, you always do a little bit extra. But anyway, it's just amazing to me how in the corporate world, even Silicon Valley, they have those posters about what their values are supposed to be. But in reality, the people don't know what those values are and they don't live by them. They don't hire and fire by those values. They end up just promoting people who bring more money, even though they are they are not aligned with the corporate value whatsoever, even though they may not be ethical or have character or any of those things because they're bringing the money, those other people, they kind of pay attention to, which again, I believe it's really bad for the people in the organization who actually align with those values and who really prioritize character. So I feel like in the military and in the industry, that's a very, very big difference. And talking about Walmart, isn't it strange? My understanding in Arkansas, right, Sam Walton started with one original store and eventually pretty much took over the world. Isn't that just amazing?

Well, Sam Walton, the founder, was a veteran, and I think that often is forgotten in the halls of Walmart that, you know, when you start talking about veterans and veteran preference and the qualities you get when you hire a veteran day one, We're like, wait a minute, this company was founded by a veteran, Sam Walton.

Wow.

I believe he was a military intelligence officer in World War II.

Amazing.

So he brought discipline, execution from day one, from his first store. And of course now it's the world's biggest retailer. It's a powerhouse.

Amazing. I didn't even know that. I don't think many people know that he was a That one. Wow, so powerful. So what do you believe separates the leaders who can successfully execute strategy from those who kind of struggle to move ideas into the real world?

I think it's as simple as leadership quality. Again, comparing military to civilian, if I were ever asked, where did you find the better quality of leadership, and it was in uniform. And you speak to culture. Culture is not a slogan. It's what you do every day, all day, even when people aren't looking. And we never had a problem defining our culture on active duty.

Yes.

And then in the civilian sector. So I think it's the authenticity of leadership. On some podcasts, I've often said, you know, the challenge I think, in the civilian world is not the quality of the new hires and the college students and those mid-level ranks.

Yes.

The crisis is leadership quality at the top, meaning the full circle. And you and I are both familiar with this. Accountability is full circle. Yes. It's not mid-level managers down. It's top down. All too often we see where military senior leadership are relieved for cause, a loss of confidence, and that happens more than it should, but that's where the accountability starts, is at the top. So I think the pressure is on for authentic leadership, not technical expertise, not somebody that we hired from wickedywomp.com that you know, can accelerate e-commerce and all this stuff. But at every level, the tenets of leadership are going to be tested. And in times of crisis, that's when you find out, do you really have a leader or do you have a careerist that is looking for survival tactics and the right lever to pull to survive what's going on? So I think Well, yeah, it's a challenge. I've worked for a lot of great leaders. Most of them were military, a couple of them civilians. But it's very different. You would think leadership's leadership, and it should be, but it's defined differently in a suit.

Wow, that is quite fascinating. But I think most people, most employees, they really know if their immediate supervisor or their bosses are true leaders or not. They really truly care about them, or just the bottom line. You really cannot hide it for very long. But one thing that's quite remarkable with your career story is you've really been known for embracing non-traditional technology solutions. So how can leaders kind of encourage innovation while still managing risk? How did you do it?

Again, going back to what is your specific problem to solve, because let's take artificial intelligence, AI. So even a year ago, I mean, it's cool, everybody was doing it whether they were doing it or not, and you go to a conference and 90% of the courses and the exhibitors are AI something. Number one, staying true to what specific business problem you're trying to solve, because what I find is too often We are chasing cool, not, you know, something specific to solve a certain pressure point. So once you strip away the coolness and the shiny thing in the room, that's when it distills down to the reality of AI in this specific case. And leaders that can do that more effectively and without a lot of chaos and noise in the background of, wow, he must be doing something great because he's doing 400 different things.

Yes.

Go back to execution. What are you actually executing that matters? So it's again, you know, I love General Beagle. It's back to his, you know, specificity and clarity of communication. What is it you're trying to do? And too many people struggle with that.

Well, it looks like you— I asked General Beagle, he needs to pay me to be one of his spokespersons because every chance I I have a talk about it. It looks like, uh, you're gonna be the second spokesperson for the general. It's incredible. But no, just, uh, no, great, fine leaders. You don't see them every day, even in uniform. But again, from my experience, 21 years now in the Navy, most of the skippers I've had have been excellent. But there is always that kind of 1%, and you kind of wonder how in the world did they get promoted to be commanding officers. But for the most part, though, my experience has been extremely positive. And it's really amazing how in the military we have a way of forging those leaders and really have people who care about their soldiers, their sailors, their people, and, you know, focus on the execution of the mission. Another leadership mantra I like, and I believe we stole that from the Army too, is one team, one fight. So that's very important, especially when it comes to this joint world. No, it's not just the Navy, but it's the Navy working with the Army, with the Air Force, with everybody else. And sometimes we tend to, you know, protect our own territory. It's kind of us versus them. But the reality is we have one mission under DOD and we're going to work together to get it done. And I really, really love that. There is no greater lesson, I think, in leadership than putting your ego on the side and really focusing on the, on the mission and working together to make it happen.

It's a great, great example of that is Afghanistan.

Yes.

So we worked alongside the Germans, the British, the Italians, the French, and you know, when we would hear all the static in the news coming across, again, that was 2003, and all of the division among nationalities, who's doing what and all that, and we're all sitting there, you know, on the hood of the Humvee in 110-degree heat, we could not be closer. We understood that together, I don't care that you're French, I don't care that you're German. We capitalized on everybody's strengths. And it just really punctuated the chasm for me between reality on the ground and that back home, if you will. That's a gross distortion. We know what we're doing here on the ground, and we don't care what uniform you wear. It's combined arms and focus.

That is so true and such a powerful, powerful leadership principle. Let's talk about your latest book for a moment, Instrument of Ignorance. Why did you believe you had to write this book? Why did this book have to be written?

Current affairs. As you may know, I'm on the leadership board at the University of Alabama, and actually I'm going down there Friday for the board meeting, and then I spend a week on campus speaking to various classes. And about careers and, you know, the realities of the professional world. Not, you know, you're awesome, you can be anything you want to be, but look guys, you better saddle up because it can be tough. And I immerse myself in the principles of critical thinking and really how in the world have we gotten to where we are today as a society that me being a boomer, I've seen the pre-internet life. And I've seen, you know, the blurring now between what's real, what's not. And then when I was growing up, you know, if you were in line at the grocery store and mom was checking out the groceries, you saw the tabloids, but somehow instinctively you knew it was garbage.

Yes.

And you would read it and it would say, you know, an elephant gave birth to a human baby and all this stuff. But it was in that moment. Yes. And then when you left, it was gone. It was not ubiquitous. Today it is. And so really, the more I thought about it, I'm like, what is it? What are the underpinnings of this slide of our inability? We've lost our way in terms of— and my first chapter in there, by design, is education. What does that mean? And the importance of critical thinking. And being taught how to think, not what to think.

Yes.

So spent a lot of time on campus at Bama doing that, and thankfully we've got a great dean, Dean Messina. So when people read that, it's like, how in the world in this tumultuous time did you pull off making it apolitical? Yes. I'm like, dude, there's enough of that garbage out there. If you want to listen to all that static, you got the wrong book. I wanted to talk about, and you mentioned it earlier, military service. I am a firm believer that after high school, 2 or 3 years in uniform or some public higher service, Peace Corps, you name it. I think that would go a long way because as we all know, the maturity equality of a young man that serves or a young lady that serves and they get out when they're 22, the emotional maturity more times than not is going to be far beyond that of the one that didn't. So I think it's a win-win. And General Petraeus, when I did him on a podcast, I don't know, a couple years ago, um, he agreed. Yes, sure, sure. It's not a draft, it's just like the Germans are coming back to. I just got back from Germany, what's a couple of days ago, the Germans are going back to a version of conscription, as you may know, for that reason.

Wow, that is so true. And I think really also when you get to serve again, it doesn't have to be in uniform, but that's what I know, you really put others ahead of yourself. It's okay to have personal ambition, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but when you think about how you can be of service to others. I think it was Zig Ziglar, right? Who said if you help enough people get what they want, you pretty much don't have to worry about a thing because you will get absolutely everything you want and more. Just that notion of service. Oh, it looks like the general is here. He says, this is awesome that you are on with Brent. All right. So we're going to need the general to increase his budget for you and me. As a spokesperson. But good to see you, sir. Yeah, it is. And by the way, I may seem a little distracted at times, but I'm always monitoring what comes on the chat, especially YouTube and LinkedIn. Because I remember when I started this about 5 years ago, I was talking to myself and that's it. Nobody was listening. And now I actually get a chance to speak to people all around the world. If they have something to say, I definitely want to I like that. Now, before I talk briefly about your second book, which message do you believe leaders, as they read this book, what is the main message of the book? What do you want them to go away with?

A sense of perspective. And after I just spent those 10 days in Germany, I went to Dachau. Of course, I was there back in the '90s when I was stationed there. And my perspective Really, my experience in Afghanistan absolutely shattered my sense of perspective of life in a good way.

Yes.

And I think the message is, and the tagline is, "What got us here will not get us there." I think there is a huge deficit in leadership that understanding the broader picture, so specific to our conversation, 1945 forward. How did we get to be the most powerful nation on the planet? How did we get to be the leaders of democracy after World War II in a world order we designed? And the more I see of activities, and not just in this last, you know, couple of years, but over the last 10 or 12 years, really an absence of those same elements of history coming back. Yes. Different form, different names, different dates, but very similar. And I'm like, how can you not see that? I mean, it's evident. So the sense of perspective to me more holistically defines leadership. If you don't have a sense of perspective, Yeah, I think that's managing, that's not leading. Wow. So I don't suggest everybody go to a combat zone to have your sense of perspective dramatically changed. Yes, but it sure did for me in a good way. It changed who I am as a— it changed everything about me, that experience in Afghanistan.

Wow, that is really something. And definitely I can say without doubt in my experience, the military is probably the most diverse organization in the world. You get kids from all over the place, from different towns, backgrounds, skills, gender, and everything else. And you learn to work together. In my case, as sailors, in your case, as soldiers. And we pretty much become one team, right? Regardless of our differences. And also the other thing that I said, in the military we do so well, the industry doesn't do very well, is we are pretty much an apolitical organization. I actually know a few senior leaders in the military, they even refuse to vote as a citizen because they just don't want to mess with politics. It is really amazing to me how different people from different backgrounds, even political persuasion, again, can come together, focus on the mission, and care for one another. You care for the soldier, the Say hello to your right and to your left. And it is just, there is really nothing in the world like it. Like even now, it's been 20 years now, 20 and a half years I went to boot camp. I still have friends from that time in the service today. It's just incredible. Was your experience similar?

Yes. Yeah. And we knew there were two taboo topics, religion and politics. But in the intensity, in my years of service, you never had to be reminded of that. It just didn't fit the fabric of the mission. I got out in 1995. And so I experienced, when I was in command, the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy. Soldiers are going to say stuff and everybody gets it off their chest. You work it into the cadence on the morning run the next morning. But what I so happily took away from that, it was a thing for a minute.

Yes.

And no soldier cared. They're like, you know what, I don't care who's beside me in the cockpit of the MLRS launcher when we're firing at Grafenwoehr. I don't care.

Yes.

Honestly, I don't care if you're Jewish. I don't care if you're Black. I don't care if you are Latin.

Yes.

But it was fundamental, BZ. It was not— you didn't need a conscious reminder, "Okay guys, that's the wrong thing to think." You just didn't care.

Yes.

You absolutely didn't care. It was like if it was raining before PT, you didn't care. You went out and ran. It just wasn't a thing. So I hope our ranks retain that resiliency and objectivity. And I think never more than now. And when I addressed the cadets at Bama during the commencement ceremony, I made a point of that.

Yes.

That you got to remember your oath of office and your responsibility is to your soldiers.

Yes.

And mission accomplishment. And it has nothing to do with politics, religion, or any other distraction.

True.

You're there to perform a mission. So I hope, I hope that doesn't fade.

No, that is, that is so powerful. It's really who we are as, uh, service members. So let me at least briefly, uh, speak about, uh, your first book, Proclivity: It's More Intuitive Than You Think. Resist Making It Hard. So in the book, you really explore the role of intuition in decision-making. How do you think leaders should balance data analytics and intuition when making difficult decisions?

Yeah, that— the book Proclivity, as many will know what the word means, is your natural tendency. It's already who you are. And, you know, the more I talk to the students at Alabama, that's the reason I wrote that book, was one of my mentees said, you're so powerful, but you're saying the same thing in every class. So you have a message you're trying to get across, and what is it? And my message is Yeah, crappy things happen to people when they're childhoods, and we've all got, you know, stories. But at the end of the day, it's who you are that's going to propel you, and it's going to be those things that are fundamental. The way I was raised, carry a good name. Now today we call it what's your brand and all this. It's reputation. And the message is, is that perseverance and discipline, you can pretty much overcome anything. But again, it's back to that authenticity of a leader. And I challenge the students, what is one characteristic that you cannot be taught of a leader? And it's to care. You can learn business metrics, how to read a P&L, you can learn formations, tactics, battle books, but you can't be taught how to care. And soldiers know that, as you well know. They can pick that up in a leader in a nanosecond, whether this guy really cares about me, or if he's just here. And so that authenticity of empathy, and I know it's a squishy term, and people are like, oh my gosh, here we go. Like, no, dude, you call it what you want. But if you don't care about your people, you're gonna fail. At some point, you got to write the check.

So that is so powerful, so simple, but so powerful. And It seems to me like the biggest difference with those leaders who are quite effective and those who are not, they all understand this simple principle, but it's really in the execution, I think. Do you agree?

100%.

Yeah. It's, wow, incredible. Because I do a lot of leadership development classes and training. And many times when I speak, people are like, I already know that. I mean, just know I don't have to be. I'm like, well, if you knew it, you wouldn't be— if you knew it, you would be doing it. So until you show it to me that you actually do it, then you really do not know it. Yeah, maybe you may know it like intellectually, or say, yeah, that's a good idea, I've heard it before. But until you actually put it in practice every day, uh, I, I feel like, no, you, you, you really don't. Uh, let's see, uh, the General says, uh, busy people don't care what you know until they know how much Amen. And I think I've heard Oprah say that, and also her mentor Maya Angelou. Actually, my primary mentor, John Maxwell, says that too. And that is so, so true. But really, when it comes to leadership, really at its essence, it seems to me like it's really about people, the way they feel, the way you make them feel, and how you lead them. And then everything else is just kind of extra, isn't it?

My definition of leadership— so my journey as a second lieutenant as all of us go through, we mature over time. Your perspective grows, you settle down, you're not the overcaffeinated, you know, screaming every time your mouth opens, you're screaming. That was pretty much me up until I got to Fort Sill. So as a battery commander, you know, and Desert Storm I was going on during my first command, we transitioned to MLRS. One of the most powerful lessons, and he's a friend to this day, my battalion commander, Lieutenant Colonel Mark Gay, West Point officer, razor sharp. We were out in the motor pool or something, he came up and said, "Hey, Captain Overston, how is Private So-and-So's wife doing?" I had 167 soldiers, so I'm thinking to myself, first of all, who the hell is Private So-and-So? I didn't know anything about this, but I stumbled through it. He knew I didn't know, but the point— and I remember, what was this, 30-some-odd years ago?

Yes.

He taught me something in that brief passing in the motor pool. You're missing it, Captain Elverson. It is, yes, it's about readiness. Yes, it's about mission accomplishment. Yes, it's discipline. All those things I was doing really well.

Yes.

But clearly, I didn't have my arms around the the, the real metric of leadership, which is what is going on with those soldiers. So I remember that, and I've talked to him about it. He's in my first book, uh, because he was so powerful in my early development.

Um, wow.

So I wasn't always that person, you know.

That is powerful.

Yeah.

And it reminds me of something General Bagel did, uh, teach me, and it is so true, and I believe so essential, right? When it says rank is rented but trust is earned. And, uh, if we could do that, understand that whatever rank we have, whether you're vice president, an executive, a C-level executive, or whatever it might be, you're not going to be that for the rest of your life. It's just going to be for a very short period of time.

Well, remember Colin Powell when he was on the platform and one person asked him quickly Something to the effect of what makes a great leader. And he didn't hesitate a nanosecond.

Yes.

Trust.

Yes.

I mean, it was boom. Wow. And then he goes into the narrative, but you know, it gives me goosebumps right now listening to that guy say that. And he's of course precisely right. If your troops don't trust you, dude, you're in trouble.

Yes.

You may think you're going to get promoted, but it ain't happening.

Yes.

Soldiers decide your career path.

Wow. And sometimes it takes quite a long time to earn that trust, but then you can do something silly and lose it just like that. What do you think, especially in high-impact environment, not just in the military, but sometimes even in the industry, when you have to build that trust in a short amount of time, what do you recommend leaders do?

To build trust?

Yes. In a short period of time.

Predictability and behavior. So I don't need you good Monday and Tuesday, and then you can come in Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and be somebody different. And sure, that's discipline. But to me, trust is one of those absolutes that if it's violated, it's like a, you know, it takes you your lifetime to create a good reputation and 3 seconds to destroy it.

Wow.

And one of my, well, not one of, probably the leading discriminator for me in any business to this day is trust. If I suspect something's not 100% or somebody gives me reason to not trust them, I am out. I, I never had that challenge in the Army. I had leaders that, you know, made you get out of bed in the morning and you just would walk through fire for them. And then you had other leaders that didn't. But I never questioned trust or character in uniform. Wow. The world's different. So it's what you do every day.

Yes.

To earn that trust.

That is really, really, really powerful. And one thing I would add with predictability, in my experience, the senior leaders that you would follow, I would say, to the end of hell and back, are people, they may have very high standards and they are tougher, which is perfectly fine. But like you say, they are predictable. And part of their predictability, I think, is fairness, right? It doesn't matter who you are, they treat everybody exactly the same, whether you're a man, woman, black, white, they don't care. These are the standards, you're gonna meet and exceed those. And if you do, you get rewarded. And if you don't, you get punished. Because when somebody else looks in the unit, in the command, yeah, this person means business and they are always consistent with their values and what they say matters. Because there are a few leaders in my life, when they speak, it's like, we're just wasting time. I don't believe a word they say, because what they say and what they do, two completely different things. I interviewed a couple of people, mostly senior enlisted, they tell me about the— it's like I'm playing a tape and the track doesn't match what I am watching on the screen. So I think really that character integrity and being aligned with what you say and what you do will go a very long way to building that trust.

It changes your culture. So in my first command, I was given that command for a reason. My battalion commander told me, "You got to clean it up." And so that was my mission first 90 days. And we outprocessed, I don't know, probably a dozen soldiers that just were not designed to be there. But more importantly, it only took that small subset for the rest of them to say, "Okay." This is different and I don't want to go home. So I need to drink one less beer on a Friday night or whatever. But that establishes the culture. So the soldiers, you know, 6 months into it, my battalion commander is like, wow, the energy with those guys, just watching them run PT in the morning with you when it's snowing and going to the range and calling alerts and all of those hard things we did routinely, that was the culture. And a culture, in my mind, a culture is no different than a reputation. You can screw it up with a bad leader.

Yes.

You can contaminate 170 soldiers with choosing the wrong leader. But if you have the right leader, somebody like a General Beagle or a Powell or, you know, a Petraeus or McChrystal, Schwarzkopf, you name it, it's infectious.

Yes.

And I was really lucky in my active duty years. I had some superb senior leaders that— what do we call it now? Imposter syndrome. I'm like, there is no way in hell I will ever aspire to that.

Yes, yes.

But you come into your own and— yeah, culture absolutely matters. And it is not a slogan on the wall, as we know.

Man, leadership does matter. Wonderful. Okay, I see that we have about 4 minutes left, but you said you can give me a little bit more time.

Yeah, sure.

Okay. So let's get into the final, the last segment of the show. I try to get into your head and really understand the leadership principle that have helped you be successful. To get started, maybe can you tell us what is the greatest lesson you have ever learned, whether it's in leadership, in life, or in general?

As I tell the cadets at Alabama, don't make the mistake I did in not getting into role immediately when I pinned on 2LT bars. I didn't really professionalize and get into role until I pinned on railroad tracks or captain. And I regret that. I, you know, I would pass the PT test. Yeah, I did everything, but I wasn't a standout. And I was looking back on that, I was much better than that. I could have been a much better junior officer. And the Army has a long memory, as we all know. So, and I changed when I pinned on those railroad tracks at Fort Lee, Virginia. I was on TDY before going to Germany, and I had a talk with myself in the mirror. I'm like, party's over, dude. You have to grow the hell up. Stop trying to be people's friends. You are a captain. You're probably going to be a commander. And when you walk out of this building, you're going to be saluted by other officers. And When I made the decision to get out after I got my MBA and go to Walmart, I did not repeat that mistake. I went after it like a wild man. Wow. Learning everything I could, taking, you know, training manuals home on the weekends and typing my own notes and mastering that. So my biggest mistake, I didn't get into roles soon enough because I, I didn't think it was going to be a career and it could have been. Wow. But that's what I tell the cadets. Look, go after this like it's your life. Yes, soldiers deserve it, so they deserve solid leadership.

That is, um, quite insightful, man. And for those who are not in the military, so going from second lieutenant to captain, that's about 4 years on average for most people. Second lieutenant, first lieutenant, and then captain. So you are still a junior officer but definitely adding the double track on your collar or your shoulder, it really means something. And wow, powerful. So what do you think is the secret of your success? Not just in the US Army, you know, coming out as a major, and then also, you know, what you did at Walmart as an executive, which is, I guess, a Fortune 100 company. And then now you have your own consulting firm. Why are you so successful in life and business, you think?

One word: my mom. You know, I— so she, you know, we had very difficult circumstances, single-parent household. I won't get into the details, but it shaped who I am in terms of perseverance. And I'm a baby boomer, so there was no such thing as a PowerPoint presentation at dinner that night of here are the things you need to do to excel tomorrow. My mom carried herself, I don't know how she did it.

Wow.

I honestly have no idea. And I consider myself a very strong-willed person. But my mom hardcoded in me, number one, we called it back in the day, have a good name. And when we were teenagers, if we tapped the guardrails, she might have been a Southern belle, but dude, she would light you up. Yes. And get us back on. So the values of You know, the character, integrity, having a good name, and discipline. She hard-coded that in me. And so I have her number one to thank. And I've had great leaders over the years and influential people and mentors, sure. But it started hard coding when I was a child, like most people. That's the proclivity. You are who you are when you, you know, you grow up. So yeah, thanks to Mom, uh, you know, they don't make them like that anymore. And she epitomized decency and perseverance. She was one hell of a woman.

Wow, that is true legacy. Because sometimes if you just leave money or wealth to your kids, you know, you may actually make their life much more difficult. But when you have a sense of duty, character, and integrity, you really set them up for life. Wow, thank you for sharing that. So I know that leaders are learners. What type of things are you learning these days?

Geopolitics is my refreshed entrance— interest. Triangle of Power by the Finnish President Alexander Stubb. About halfway through that on the flight over to Germany, visited— every time I go to Germany, I go there 2 times a year, I always do something World War II. And I measure against my impressions as a young, motivated battery commander captain right after the Wall came down. I have very different feelings today, and my sense of curiosity is much stronger. So I like to read about the complexities of the global landscape because, you know, for many years we took a lot— I hate to say it, but— for granted. We were the big cat in town. We had the Russians in check. China really wasn't a thing, and the world order was democracy, if you will. And much like the theme of my second book, How in the World Did We Get Here? I find a lot of solitude and self-reflection in works like from President Scobb. So yeah, geopolitics is my refreshed passion of the last 10 years or so.

So powerful. When you are in Germany, if you have time to go to Paris, France, I would highly, highly recommend you go to the Suresnes American Cemetery. It's really crazy because I am originally French Congolese. I've gone to France so many times, but I've never thought about going to the American cemetery. You're gonna see not just World War II, but World War I veterans too. I mean, it's going to make you cry and really make you reflect so deeply about the role of America in the world and just the sacrifice and the goodness of all of those great American patriots and heroes.

It's a very different feeling now as a— at my age than a 30-year-old battery commander at the end of the Cold War. I was amped. I thought, hot dog, you know, I played one little sliver in this whole 80-year journey.

Yes.

To bring in the, you know, an end to communism, blah blah blah.

Yes.

And then here we are. And when I stand, when I stand at Brandenburg Gate, for example, or last week or this weekend at Dachau, I'm like, I just pause and think, how, number one, did this happen? And what path are we on today? So, yes, I love that stuff. Great, great comment.

Insightful. Now, uh, we talked a lot about your successes. What about failure? How has failure shaped your life?

Um, well, one already mentioned— not being enrolled soon enough, not being professional and giving it my all. That was a huge mistake professionally for me, but I corrected it going to Walmart. Um, I would— you know, failure is such a harsh word. Sure, I've got, as all of us do, plenty of things that I'm like, what a dumbass, why did I do that? You know, and I take pride in this, but I've had other people ask, how did you never make vice president at Walmart? And I'm like, number one, I didn't care. That to me is not a goal. That's shallow if you ask me. And it mattered more to me the quality of the leadership I worked for and the job I had. Did I make a difference? And the answer to that for 22 years with few exceptions was yes.

Yes.

Great leaders and I had a broad reach of all the United States and strategy development and stuff. So in that scope, of course, there were mistakes. But I think it was Colin Powell, you know, to paraphrase, you know, once is a mistake, twice is a problem.

Yes.

And, you know, I never repeated the second thing twice. And I cover a lot of that biz in my first book because that's more of a personal accounting of overcoming. It's not as corny as overcome adversity, but it is. But it's a true life of me being transparent and willing to share my— you know, it's like General McChrystal. I mean, come on, how do you get any better than that? And he openly shares he was damn near thrown out of West Point. Yes, because he was not an academic performer. And I'm like, yeah, wow, that is a refreshing humility.

Also, uh, pretty much publicly fired, but now look at everything he's done. Now he's really changing.

Exactly. Well, same thing with Petraeus. Yeah, yeah, you know, um, legendary failures, but I take more pride in— yeah, there they are, Petraeus and McChrystal.

Yes, my heroes. It's— wow, that, that is, that is really, really, uh, quite powerful because the truth is we are all human and at some point we are going to fail, but can you learn from your mistakes, stand back up and make a difference? And, uh, these two I call them living legends. I don't care what people say. They have shown us the way and it's really powerful. Wow. Okay. So if you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, who would you choose and why? They could be alive, dead, or even fictitious characters.

Well, I've mentioned him 100 times already, I think, Colin Powell. And dude, I was genuinely sad when the announcement came of his passing because somewhere in my head I thought, you know, My in-laws live up there in McLean, Virginia. Maybe I'll run into him somewhere and just, it'll be like, oh my God.

Yeah.

So yeah, uh, uh, Colin Powell, uh, Ronald Reagan. Have a chance to sit down with Ronald Reagan.

He really was a great communicator, wasn't he, President Reagan?

Oh yeah. Well, he's, he mattered to me. You know, I came on board when Reagan took office. I commissioned in, uh, '84.

Amazing.

And then the honorable John McCain.

Yes, John McCain, American hero.

Yeah. And everybody says, well, okay, those are, you know, 3 other guys, but that's my answer. I would stand to be profoundly a better person spending an hour talking to those guys.

That is really powerful. I know President Reagan, I wasn't in the US yet, but I knew, no, President Carter was president at the time, and really the morale in the country was extremely low, you know, the price of gas, long, long line everywhere. Iran had a bunch of hostages, and people just didn't feel good about being American. But with his language, his poetry, President Reagan was able to just raise, uh, the, uh, morale of an entire country. Think of America like the city on that hill. And going back to our aspiration, it was very, very, very powerful. And of course, I believe he's really one of the few people who ended the Cold War, but for some reason, I don't think he got all of the recognition for what he did. But I think Gorbachev, right, he got the Nobel Peace Prize, but they forgot about Reagan. I wonder why. So anyway, maybe that's just politics, but he definitely had a huge, huge impact on our life, America, and history.

It's courageous leadership. Yes, he had all the reasons in the world not to do it, and I admire courage when he says—

yeah, uh, yeah, I think was talking to President Gorbachev, right? Uh, uh, tear down that wall. That, that, that really changed history. It's incredible. And then you, you, you mentioned McCain, who was, I believe, a lieutenant in the US Navy and prisoner of war, even when he ran for president. One thing I really miss about him and the moment we are in today in America, he says, you know, country before party. And that is so powerful. First and foremost, we are American and American first, and then everything else, our disagreement and all of that, is secondary to that. And I just feel like our country right now, we are more tribal, more politics, and, and it's, it's really, uh, hurting us in the long, long run. But yeah, People like that, I think people need to study them. And it's who we are, I believe, at our core as American.

We're better, in my mind, after 10 days in Germany, and I love having those geopolitical conversations. And without getting political, all of the messages were the same about what is happening in America. And you know what, it almost brought tears to my eyes, an older German, He got very animated and we hadn't had but one beer, so it wasn't that. And he's like, you know, in his broken English, he said, "You Americans," and I thought, "Oh hell, here we go." He said, "You Americans came over here, kicked the Nazis' ass and gave us what we have today. And here we are. And I'm not comfortable with we gave them. I mean, the British were there, as we well know, and there are a lot of other players. Yes, you could distill it down. Had the US not, you know, actually manned up, it may have had a very dramatic different turnout.

Yes.

But I find that the Europeans have a better sense of history because he was very adamant. He was older and it's like, you guys gave us democracy. And I think you are trivializing that now today on the world stage. And I'm like, I don't disagree, buddy.

Wow. So powerful.

Yeah. Yeah.

When I think of that time, again, I am originally from French Congo, so I am Congolese, African by birth, French by culture, and American by choice. But when I look at France today, if it wasn't for the US, they'd be speaking German right now. But, uh, uh, it's just amazing how we went there. No, we pretty much literally saved Europe, but we didn't try to pillage their country, take their wealth or anything like that. All we asked for is just small piece of land. Like I said, the American cemetery in Paris, just to bury our dead. That's it. And, uh, that is really, uh, I believe what makes America great. That's, that is our greatness. The way we serve, we sacrifice, and, uh, we stand for our friends. And there's just nothing like it. And I refuse to believe we are anything but that.

So it's our proclivity. I mean, we go through good times and bad times, but at the end of the day, we were the architects of the world order after World War II. And I do not subscribe to when people tell me it's a different world today. It's not like that anymore. I'm like, really? Leadership has changed is what you're telling me.

It's really insightful because 80+ years of peace, prosperity, and yeah, what America has done for the world, it's just been beyond belief. But anyway, so I don't need to lend this time. I've already used too much of your time. But let me ask you, in addition to your own books, which book would you recommend my audience read?

Right now it's Triangle of Power. I say, let me give you two books. Triangle of Power for the broader geopolitical landscape from Alexander Stubb, eloquent speaker, smart as hell, deep roots in diplomacy and statehood. But I'm going to put right next to it, not because he's listening, but General Beagle's book, When the Map Runs Out. So for transitioning veterans, who too often tried to do a direct translation. I was an infantry platoon leader, or I was a surface warfare officer. It does not translate. What translates of what those skill sets you already take for granted, which is discipline, character, brevity, specificity, all these things that, I'm going to say it, Beegs talks about, General Beagle. I would say if you're looking at transitioning or you just want to be a better leader, it's a quick, fluent read. And so I would say those two different books, Finnish President and our friend General Beagle. Yep, there it is, Triangle of Power. Yeah, awesome read.

Since you've worked at Walmart for so long, I think people need to read Made in America.

They do.

Quite powerful. And of course, you also mention one of my primary mentors, General Colin Powell, American Journey. That would really make you think. And, uh, that's really what I love about books, right? Even though he is no longer with us, no, it yet speaks, it yet teaches through his books and everything he has taught while he was here and still can have an impact. No, that's really legacy. Okay, so, uh, is there maybe a song, a book, or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

Song, book, or movie? Well, my favorite movie is Full Metal Jacket.

Full Metal Jacket.

The first half, of course. A book? Gosh, dude, I read a lot. I would go by author and it would be any one of Powell's books.

Yes.

Because they shaped me at a very vulnerable time as a young battery commander when I, Lord knows, I needed shaping. Yes, so he is very influential in my life, uh, reading. And songs, dude, I listen everything from Pitbull to Pavarotti. It depends on my mood. If I'm going to the gym, it's more Pitbull. If I'm, you know, having a gin and tonic on a plane, it's Pavarotti.

Yes, powerful music.

No real songs, it just depends on my mood.

But, and I believe General has written two, two books only. It Worked for Me, both of them number one New York Times best bestselling book.

And his Leadership Secrets of Colin Powell, I don't know what year that came out. Yeah, but he, uh, about him, awesome guy.

Wow, powerful, powerful. Okay, uh, if you had one and only one day to live, Major, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Paying it forward. I, you know, people ask me, you know, career success, you know, and doing well in consulting. Yes, I get my thrills on campus talking to those young kiddos who I will say they are awesome. I've been doing this for 9 years now every semester. Wow. So, you know, I go back to my mom, her sacrifices for getting me through college when she didn't have two nickels to rub together, teaching me everything that made me a man. Wow. Um, that I carry today. So it's the opportunity to pay it forward. If I had one more day, if I could help one young person make a better decision and help change their life, dude, I'd take that over a $10 million check.

Wow. So let me ask you this. All of the work you do, especially with my alma mater, University of Alabama— go, roll Tide, roll— uh, Really, really great, great student there and very diverse campus. I was a student there from '96 and then I almost got a PhD in 2002. But anyway, great, great experience. If you had the ear of every student across the country right now for like 60 seconds, what would you tell students to do tomorrow morning?

Study critical thinking.

Powerful.

I think, you know, when I talk to the students, I'm like, your biggest challenge is not my biggest challenge. I didn't have to worry so much about mis- and disinformation and ubiquitous toxic media in your face 24/7. I think this generation and the one before, their biggest challenge is going to be managing information and understanding what's real and what's not. Wow. And I'm even trying to push to get critical thinking as a core requirement for a bachelor's in Arts and Sciences at Bama. But as I've learned, things move glacially slow in academia.

Yeah, yeah, it's painful.

Uh, but to me, that is going to be the cornerstone of a survival skill, to be able to think truly, think critically, uh, and read laterally, you know, not just vertical, you know, Fox News or True Social or CNN or whatever.

Absolutely.

No echo chambers. Challenge yourself like I do with The older Germans. I'd rather sit down and have a beer with an older German than the person I'm traveling with.

Yes.

Because I want to learn something. I want to hear their experience.

Powerful, powerful.

Critical thinking.

So if you had a magic wand and could solve any problem in the world, what is the one thing you'd like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

This is going to sound weird, but the capability of how evil humanity can be. And if you look at animals, dogs, for example, love dogs, not an evil thought in their heads. And the, you know, as I again, back to Dachau, it's like, how in God's name did a human being do this? It is to be able to change the tolerance for evil in humanity. And it's not this generation or any other particular generation. Its humanity and our capacity for evil.

Yes, wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. Now, all good things need to come to an end. I really enjoyed and got such a great pleasure and honor to talk to you, Major. What can my audience do to add value back to you? Thanks so much for your extra time today on the podcast. We appreciate that.

Thank you very much. Just follow me on LinkedIn. I am active, I engage, and I like civil discourse and disagreement. And, you know, it's just been a great conversation. I could do this for 2 more hours.

Keyword being civil, because I feel like we've lost our civility. Absolutely.

Yeah, everything now is a bar fight, and I'm like, come on.

Yeah. And what about for people who may want to hire you and your team?

Everything about me and my business is on LinkedIn profile, including the website you're scrolling through today. But I'm more in the non-traditional risk mitigation space in retail. And I say retail, I'm also working with Los Alamos National Labs. Obviously that's not retail. Looking at RFID implementation in nuclear weapons production. So— Wow. Several elements of expertise, but largely it's in risk mitigation in retail and for the non-traditional route. If you're looking for what's been out there already, plenty of people that do that, and it isn't me. Um, yeah, I like to push the envelope when it matters.

Outstanding. And I would also say get a copy of these two books for yourself, but also for your teenager or college student. I think absolutely could definitely make a big, big difference. Uh, like, uh, the major said, right, uh, critical thinking is so critical these days.

Yes, indeed.

Yeah, it's almost as if common sense is no longer common. And again, that's part of the reason why I do this podcast and I'm so grateful for people like you and being our master teacher today because I think the next generation definitely need to hear this and really get back into the right way, which is character, integrity, and service to people. That's really how you lead in my humble opinion. It's not just about me, myself, and I, and being ambitious and having the car, the houses and all Nothing wrong with it, but you need to learn how to serve, how to add value. That is so critical. All right. So we are definitely coming towards the end. If we can maybe just 2 minutes, sir, I will do a lightning round. So give me the first thing that comes to your mind. Don't take too long. Actually, before I do that, is there a question I should have asked you that I didn't get a chance to ask? Anything else you wanted to talk about today?

You're very thorough. No.

Thank you.

You're very thorough.

So before I get to the lightning round, I wanna ask you probably one of the most important questions. You were about, I think, 17, 20 over here. If you could go back in time and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self, standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had, not just in the Army, but Walmart, and now your own firm, what would you say to 17-year-old Brent?

I hate to rehash earlier comment, but get into role, get serious, commit, commit to what you're doing and do your best. And I didn't do that until I was about 25.

Wow.

That is powerful. Powerful. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if I had just known then what I know now, man, my life would be a completely different trajectory.

Oh yeah.

Amazing. Wow. Okay. All right. Lightning round. One word that defines great leadership?

Character.

Okay. Morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

Self-reflection.

A book or a quote that changed your life?

Colin Powell's 13 Rules of Leadership.

Okay. Who inspires you most today?

My mom. Good.

A leadership habit you refuse to compromise on?

Discipline.

And what is a question every leader should ask themselves frequently?

Am I doing what's right even when somebody's not looking?

Powerful, insightful. Okay, what did you want to be when you were a kid?

FBI agent.

Okay, FBI agent. I guess you joined the military, it's not quite the same, but yeah, I give you credit for that.

Bravo.

All right, what about 3 adjectives describing you as a child?

Ah, I know, well, it's not an adjective singular, but autonomous. I, you know, I didn't need a lot of static going on around me. Discipline was ingrained in me early. And integrity. And, you know, who was the senator that said, if you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, Nothing else matters.

That's right.

I think it was Simpson years ago.

Because it is, uh, the value that keeps all value, uh, uh, no, true, right? Because if you don't have it, then nothing matters. So what about as an adult? I have a feeling it's going to be the same thing. 3 adjectives as an adult.

Um, perseverance, empathy. I developed that trait later on, genuine empathy. Yes. And perspective. Again, Afghanistan just shattered my perspective in a good way.

Yes. And I always like to end on a very positive note. Now, sometimes we talk about some pretty heavy subjects on this podcast. So what is one thing you are feeling optimistic about, sir?

America's youth. Yes, I get all the negativity and all the boomers and everything we are screwing up. But I come back from the University of Alabama campus, and my wife says it, You just, you're in a better frame of mind. I'm like, honey, I spent, I take the kids to dinner. I mean, I spend time with them. It's not a PowerPoint, no question, get back on the jet. I immerse myself in their conversations. And I'm really encouraged by the quality of youngsters and their suspicion of what in the hell is going on.

Yes, yes.

So yeah, I'm very optimistic about younger Americans. I really am.

That is really a worthy investment into the youth of our country because they are going to be our next leaders, whether you like it or not.

Absolutely. That's right.

Very last question, and this is it. What is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today?

Veteran.

Yes.

Thank you so much. I am so, so grateful. Major Brent Ellison, you have been our master teacher today. Thank you so much for enlightening us about your leadership experience and example. I really appreciate your time.

Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks. Thanks. See you.

All right, everybody, this is it for today. Thank you so much for listening today, and I wanted to remind you to Tomorrow, let me see, today is Wednesday, right? Tomorrow, I think I will go back to what we were doing about leadership lessons from the book of Proverbs. Again, this has nothing to do with religion. We're gonna be talking about ancient wisdom and leadership lesson. We're gonna be studying Proverbs chapter 17. And then on Friday, I'm gonna have two great interviews. One with Dr. John P. Cordell, is a doctor of engineering, a prolific disruptive thinker, and we are going to be talking about his experience and leadership. And then right after him, I will have a great pleasure and honor of speaking with really, I believe, a living legend. She is Vice Admiral Joanna Noonan, United States Maritime Service, and also Rear Admiral from the Coast Guard, retired. Really credibility-driven leader, a freestyle-like leadership and strategies. We're going to be talking about command culture and Coastline: The Leadership Journey of Vice Admiral Nunan. You do not want to miss it. I really, really truly look forward to that. And again, I want to encourage everybody to get a copy of Proclivity and also Instrument of Ignorance. And of course, the general who owes me now and Brent too a whole bunch of money, for promoting his work, but it's just that good. When the Map Runs Out, please get a copy. It has the potential of changing your life. And finally, we are still celebrating Black History Month, so I'm calling it Black History Year now. I feel like 28 days is just not enough. So really quickly, and you can go to my LinkedIn page and you are going to learn more about that. But basically today, March 4th, on March 4th, it was 1921. You can't really read this. Let me make this a little bit bigger. A tragic case of racial terror and mistaken identity. Basically, a white mob lynched a Black man, and it was not the person they meant to lynch. Just oops. But of course, they didn't do in anything about it. That happened again, March 4th, 1921 in Bibb County, Georgia. A white mob lynched a Black man named William Anderson, and they were really looking to lynch somebody else. And the mob later claimed they had mistaken him for another man they were searching for. Okay, and then the second vignette, again, to celebrate Black History Month, and actually Women's History Month too, Today we are celebrating the first African American woman to command an Air Force flying squadron, and that would be General Stacey Harris. She is the very, very first African woman to do so in the United States Air Force. Actually, I think I have a quick video about that to end the show, and thanks again for watching today.

So I had Lieutenant General Stacey Harris. She's amazing. She's pretty great. She was a pilot in the reserves, Air Force Reserves. She was the first of many. She has a long list of firsts. So she was the first Black woman to serve as at the rank of Lieutenant General. She also was the first Black woman to command an operating flying squadron in an air expeditionary group. She also was the first woman to serve as Inspector General of the Air Force, Vice Chief of Staff, and Director of Air Staff. So she has a lot of firsts. So it was funny because I met Lieutenant General Harris when she was Brigadier General Harris. And to see a Black woman in the Air Force as a general officer was something really, really inspiring to me. She talked about how the Tuskegee Airmen were her role models. They were the shoulders that she stood upon. They came in— the Tuskegee Airmen and the WASP pinned on her first star. So she had, she always said she had big shoes to fill, and so it's come full circle in that, you know, those, her shoulders are the ones that we are standing on right now. They laid the foundation in which we are walking in right now. Big shoes to fill, and she always reminded me to no matter what you're doing, do your best. And that is how she got to become a 3-star general, whether it was being an augmentee as a reservist at many different levels, just being her best, being able to advocate for the total force, which includes the guards and the reserve. She, she, that was one thing that she she highlighted most is the total force. She is the definition of a civilian airman, a citizen airman. So when, if there is a crisis that happens, they're the ones that, you know, they put aside their everyday duty no matter what they are doing, maybe it being an airline pilot, it may be an engineer, they put that aside, put on their uniforms, and go and help. They serve. And so that was one thing that she brought up a lot, is that, you know, the Reserve and the Guard are there, and to use them wisely and to bring them in as much as possible. It's not just active duty.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership Leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.