S5E78🎙️ LIVE with Elinor Stutz

¡Hola! Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple, to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard. Welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

Are you about to go out on an interview but you're wracked with nerves? Have no fear, help is here. Many years ago, it was an embarrassment to the salesmen that I had an inherent knack for corporate sales. And so I won the bonuses and all the awards. And given the industry I was in and the time that it was, I was motivated, shall we say, to go find a new job year after year. And I quickly noticed that interviewing follows the sales cycle 100%. No doubt about it. So fast forward to my entrepreneurship, community service was always part of the business plan, and I chose to help groups of job seekers year after year understand how to implement sales techniques into their interviewing style. And year after year, I received wonderful handwritten notes saying thank you due to the sales techniques you taught us, I was able to land the job that I desired. Made me feel great. So when the economy took a deep dive, I waited till everybody caught their breath, and in 2010 wrote the book, "Hired: How to Use Sales Techniques to Sell Yourself on Interviews." It instantly became a bestseller. You may find it on Amazon in paperback and digital formats. In the meantime, I wrote this book as if I were having a cup of coffee with you in my kitchen. I told you my own horror stories, what worked well, what didn't work well.

All right. Welcome to another edition of the Leadership and Success Podcast. We have a very special guest for you today. I am so excited. And I really truly believe every successful people should really learn how to do sales. I think it is just, you know, part of success. Like you just heard, you may be able to use your sales technique even when you are looking for a job. When you go through an interview, you become the product, you become the service, and you sell yourself to your prospective employer. So, more to go about that. I'm reminded, let's start with our moment of gratitude. Yesterday during the show, This is our tradition, right? I really couldn't be grateful yesterday because there was a great fear that America was going to turn into a terrorist state and become a country that commits war crimes and start a genocide in the Middle East. And thank God that didn't happen. So today I am so grateful. I am so grateful that we didn't do that and we are respecting international laws, that we are a country with core values of honor, human rights, right? And the fair treatment of all. And I think that is important. That's our nature. That is our soul. And I am really, really glad today and so grateful that our better angels prevailed. And I think it is very important what we believe, who we are, and what we stand for, both at home and on the world stage. So I am really, really grateful for that. So, If you would let us know where are you joining us from, what city, what state, and since we are now global, which country if outside of the US. Let us know what you are grateful for today. And if you have a question for my guest, please type it in the comments. So let me see if I can properly introduce our guest today. Today, I am really honored to welcome Eleanor Sturtz. International best-selling author, CEO of SmoothSell, top sales influencer, and global thought leader on relationship-based leadership and trust-driven business growth. Known as the "Walking Miracle," Elinor has transformed adversity into impact, pioneering a sales and leadership philosophy rooted in empathy, authenticity, and long-term relationship building. She is the author of Nice Girl, Do Get the Sale! Using the Power of Empathy to Build Relationships and Get Results, and also Hired: How to Use Sales Techniques to Sell Yourself on Interviews. Her work has helped entrepreneurs, executives, transitioning military leaders, and rising professionals learn how to lead, sell, and serve with integrity. So without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Elinor Sturt.

Thank you for the wonderful introduction. It was remarkable. I've never seen anything like it.

Thank you so much, Eleanor. Now, I cannot see you. Your screen is black, but I can hear you very well. Can you double-check?

It's showing on my end. Is there something I'm supposed to do? Let's just check.

Hold on. Try to come back. It should only take a second. All right, she's going to be back in just a moment. We did test that in the green room a moment ago. Hmm, Eleanor, your screen— yeah, I can hear you, but your screen is black again.

I didn't touch anything.

Can you make sure that below your screen there should be like a microphone and then a camera? Make sure the camera is not disabled. And then if you click on the—

It shows it's on because the sign says Disable Camera. Should I disable it and then click it again?

Yes, let's try that. And also sometimes you may have more than one camera, like I have 4 cameras on my computer. And then if you can make sure you are selecting the correct camera. This almost never happens, but I definitely want my audience to see you.

Just view camera.

Okay, there is only one camera.

Oh, now let me do it. Okay, I clicked it again. I don't know what happened. Okay, go out and come back in.

How many cameras do you, do you see when you click on the top arrow next to the camera icon? Just one?

Yeah, plus yours.

Huh, I just, uh, we tested this just like 20 minutes ago, it was working just fine.

Uh, I guess I'm not technically competent.

Hold on, uh, let me see if there is something I can do on my end. Okay, looks like your camera is the iPhone. Let me change it to your web webcam.

I don't— that's weird. Why would it be— oh, oh, so I disconnected from my phone?

Yeah, it, it looks like your phone is connected to your, to your computer, so it is using your, your iPhone as your camera. Right, right.

I disconnected. Did that help?

Uh, let me see.

Uh, oh, accept.

Let me Okay, here we go. Yay, you are back now. I can see you. Thank you. All right, I am going to edit this before I put it on all of the podcast platforms. So this is going to remind me to do that. Perfect. Okay. All right. Now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Eleanor Stubbs. Yay. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, Eleanor. Such a great, great pleasure to be talking to you this morning.

Likewise, it's wonderful to meet with you, and the effort you've gone to is remarkable.

Thank you. And to get started, is there something you are grateful for today?

Yes, I've had an extra 24 years of life. I'm one who experienced a near-death experience, and it's a long story, but I am grateful every day that I can wake up and do what you want.

That is so, so wonderful. Actually, we do have that in common because my doctors told me I wouldn't live beyond 17 years old. So every single year I've had since then, I really see it as the grace of God. And I'm so grateful to still be in the land of the living. It's such a wonderful feeling to have. Thank you so much for sharing that. Is there something else about you that most people may not know? When they first meet you? I don't know.

Well, I tell them my smile's my disguise because I'm listening to every word.

That's so powerful. We definitely need to be a better listener, especially if you are going to get in sales, for sure. I guess you have such an outstanding background and resume. It's really a great honor to be talking to you today. For those meeting you for the first time, who is Eleanor Studs beyond your bio?

Beyond my bio? Well, obviously childhood changes us or trains us, and I was always bullied, never fit in. So my mirror became my best friend, and I didn't know it was training me for sales and for relationships.

Wow.

I would weigh all the pros and cons of every nasty remark I heard to see if there was any element of truth. I watched my facial expressions. My hand gestures. And then I would set goals. By 6th grade, I was an active goal setter and never stopped. And it was the differentiating moment for me to be successful in business.

I like what you said. So you would hear the criticism and then you would decide if there was an element of truth. So let me ask you this. What if you concluded there was no element of truth in what was nasty people told you, what would your response be?

Well, it would be a relief, and then I'd focus on my goals and keep going.

Wow, that is so powerful. And how old were you back then?

Maybe 8 or 9.

Wow, such wisdom at such a young, young age. I think I was maybe 15 when I started thinking that way. Okay, what if what they told you, they may not have told you that in loving way or caring way, but there is an element of truth in what they are saying, then what would your response be?

I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

Oh, when people would criticize you, not in a loving way, but what they said, even though it hurt you, there was an element of truth in it, what would your response be then?

I would just quietly ask, "Why do you say that?" And most of the time they'd stammer. Occasionally I'd hear something positive that, you know, take note about.

Wow. That is— wow. That is really, really impressive at 8 years old, being able to think like that. Where, where, where do you think you got that wisdom or that instinct from?

I definitely have my father's genetics. And every night at the dinner table from a very young age, he would talk about athletic games, all different types. And tell a short story about how this team was way behind, and in the last few minutes, suddenly they got smart, strategic, and won. And his message always, never give up. And it was just embedded in me.

That is so powerful. Thank you, thank you for sharing that. Wow, that's really insightful. Now, your story begins with childhood bullying and being underestimated. You kind of mentioned that. How did those early experiences shape your leadership voice today?

Well, fast forward to my first sales job. The manager didn't want to hire me, and this is funny, he said, if only I knew somebody that would— that knows you, would I hire you. What are the chances of that? So my— I We were friends with another couple, had them over on Saturday night. They loved my stories. They thought they were funny. So I told them that one. I didn't find them funny at all. Anyways, I told them that one, and the gentleman almost fell off his chair laughing. He said, you're not going to believe this, that guy once worked for my dad. Wow. So I called the guy, uh, on Monday morning, and I said, do you remember telling me XYZ? He said yes. I said, well, does this name ring a bell? And then I quickly added, should I come to work next Monday at 8:00, 9:00 AM? Wow. I had nowhere to go.

That is quite amazing. What did that experience teach you?

I'm sorry?

What did that experience teach you? What did you learn from it?

Oh, was that— well, I always used questions. I always felt I never knew enough because everybody was continually calling me stupid. So questions were my number one strategy. And he hired me, but then he said, we're not going to train you. You're just a stupid female. You're going to fail, be a waste of company money.

What?

So it gave me a green light to do things my way. I said, great.

Wow.

I went out. It was the old days of cold calling territories, and I made friends with everybody I encountered at each company. And what, by the fourth month, I was the top producer not knowing anything about what I was selling. Wow.

That is—

They all called me a breath of fresh air.

That is really exciting. A couple of questions come to mind. First, why do you think people were so mean to you? Where would they bully you, you think? Was it maybe something they were intimidated by because of your superpower or just, uh, the way you carried yourself, or what?

Oh, I— people would be in those days outside the company smoking, and I go up and say hello, ask them who I should speak to. I went in, saw the receptionist, asked how they liked working there, and I told them why I was there. And they said, oh, just a minute, I'll get somebody to walk you down to the executive office, because no one would ever talk to them. They couldn't get over it. And then I didn't know what to say, so I asked the person when I sat down how they liked their job, you know, and working there, and just start asking all kinds of personal-related questions, and they just bought in.

Wow, that is, that is quite amazing. And the, the follow-on question is, when people would say this nasty things mean things to you. Why do you— because you were very resilient, basically you would say pass through it and still focus on your goal and move forward. What I found kind of insightful in life is sometimes people go through very similar situation, one person would just fall apart and just give up and somebody else like you, you will still keep moving forward and keep your mind positive even though you face a lot of challenges and negativity. Where do you think that came from? Just your mindset and the internal strength and fortitude you had to keep, to keep going no matter what?

Well, two components: all the bullying that got me past, and the stories about never give up, how you can succeed no matter what's going on. And I would mentally tell myself, say to myself, Per the other person, just watch me. Wow.

So you still hear the voice of your father telling you, yes, you can do it.

Wow.

That is so, so powerful. Thank you for sharing that. Because you have said that adversity can become our greatest gift. When did that mindset really shift occur for you?

It took decades, in all honesty. But I, looking back over time as I became a blogger and started writing a lot, I began to put all the pieces together and realized all that adversity taught me a lot.

Wow.

And I came quite a ways from the days where I didn't fit in.

That is really, really amazing. So inspirational. So what lessons from your early life still guide you? Today, how you lead, how you sell, and how you serve?

First of all, always have a vision for what you want to accomplish. Obviously, through life, that vision is going to change, but you need to keep it in your head daily. Remind yourself each night and always set goals. In fact, I created a goal-setting system long ago where you start, you have that vision, but then you set a yearly goal and January 1, if not before, what you're going to accomplish the end of the year related to that vision, and then work backwards monthly, weekly, daily, and check everything that's on that list each morning and have a set list of must-dos and then what will work extra to achieve those goals. And it saves a lot of wasted time. You are just so focused.

That's really amazing. And, uh, who were some of your mentors, thought leaders, or teachers who kind of showed you how to do that?

Well, nobody showed me how to do that. I showed myself.

Wow.

And in 7th grade, there was a teacher who made a statement that I'll never forget. It was survival of the fittest. That was 7th grade, and I kept it in mind always.

So you were like about 11, 12 years old back then?

Yeah.

That's amazing, man. You are the wisest little child I've ever met. Wow.

That's kind of you. Everybody was calling me stupid, so I never thought I was smart. I was on my date with my husband, and then the third date he said, you're the smartest woman I ever met. Guess what I said?

That's amazing.

You must have met an awful lot of stupid people.

This is really incredible because for me it really happened when I was about 15, 16, 17 years old. I started thinking the way you did when you were much, much younger. That is really amazing. You don't find a lot of kids that think that way because to me that's really kind of like the science of success. Anybody can be successful if you put those things into place. For example, every year I read the book Think and Grow Rich It talks about that, but it goes through time, and everybody who's ever been successful from Gail Carnagie to today, they do exactly the same things. But usually children don't know how to do that. So I am really amazed that you really figured it out on your own at such a young, young age. That's impressive.

I need to tell you something. I never knew why nobody ever understood what I was saying. Oh, it was just this year I got the answer, believe it or not, at my older age. I read the WebMD newsletter and there was an article there. I almost fell off my chair. It said left-handed green-eyed people only represent 2% of the global, uh, the global population because they think differently. That's me.

Yes.

And I finally had my answer after years.

Wow, that is really, really powerful about just knowing who you are and building that confidence. It's amazing. So we already have quite a few people who are watching us live. We have Muhammad, he says, right? So Muhammad, let us know where you are joining us from, what city, state, or country. Daniel is a very active member of my tribe. Good morning from Maitland, Florida. And Daniel has a question for you. So our first question from our live audience. He says, Elinor, in your experience, how do you begin to patch trust once it's been broken in a very transactional, numbers-driven environment? So how do you patch trust once it's broken?

Truthfully, I don't know that it's possible. When people are not honest with me, I walk away.

Yes.

I mean, I ask them why they did what they did, try to get a reasonable answer. If it's a misunderstanding, I will talk it out and see if it's possible. Yes. But if they're not willing to talk it out, I walk away.

Wow, that's powerful. It reminds me of what Oprah said, which I believe she learned from her mentor Maya Angelou: when people show you who they truly are, believe them. That is so, so powerful. Wow. So for those listening right now, how can they do like you, transform pain into purpose rather than paralysis?

Well, I would say like I used to do, weigh what they're saying is wrong, determine if there's something you can change. None of us are perfect. So there's always a way to improve. Improve. But if they continually put you down, walk away and make different collaborative partners or friends. And just keep setting new goals. And as you achieve them, realize you are capable, you are smart, and you can do anything you have in your mind.

Wow, that is so, so, so insightful. So let's talk about, uh, sales, which again, I believe everybody, even if that's not your profession, should really be Be good at selling, it's going to help you no matter what you do. So you did Intersell at a time when women faced significant bias, right? Definitely a lot of discrimination against women. It seems like most men felt like you guys didn't belong in the workplace back then. What resistance did you encounter early on and how did you respond to it?

It was nastiness in the corporate sales environment, and I was always alone. But when we had meetings, my insights were never requested or wanted.

Hmm.

But whenever there was an opportunity, the main sales question— I have a friend in England who uses the same question— why? And it puts people on their heels. They can't explain it and they know they're being prejudiced.

Hmm.

Why? And then if they do attempt to answer, ask why again, or ask deeper questions and be relentless until they change their mind.

Wow, that is, uh, powerful. I think I learned that from my mother because to be honest, this world wasn't created for women, uh, and, uh, It was just, I think she's probably the first feminist I have ever known. She's like, no, I am going to make room for me at the top and nothing is going to stop me. And I really love that determination. I think I got that from my mom. It's, wow, that is really powerful. So you were once told you wouldn't even be trained, yet you became top producer.

Wow.

What fueled that determination, you think?

What made me successful?

Mm-hmm. And determined to succeed.

Like I said, um, I made friends with everybody I encountered. And then when I had conversations with prospects, not knowing what to say in the first job, I'd ask about their experiences and what they wish would work better at work and how they're handling it. And they were so surprised that I wanted to know about them. I was called a breath of of fresh air. And as I became more knowledgeable about sales, the same treatment prevailed, but I knew precisely what would work, and I always did the same. It was simple. It isn't any fancy sales technique. It's getting to know the person that you hope to sell to. Oh, and I have a story to share. Um, a few years later, I was at a business conference, and I was telling people what happened at that, uh, first job. Out of the corner of my eye, I could hear somebody turn— well, I could hear people talking. I turned around and I saw somebody be red, and then suddenly he got up out of his chair and went into the building. So after my conversation finished, I went over to that table And I said, I couldn't help but notice this guy. Was he listening to my conversation? Because he seemed really upset. He said, Eleanor, you were selling an unknown brand of copier against his well-known brand, most admired. He was the director of the sales team you were selling against, and nobody could make a sale, and he got fired.

Wow, that is incredible. I think You call that relationship-first sales methodology. That's very different because for most people, they don't like to do sales because they think of a used car salesman, someone who was just wanna push the product on you. You don't even want, but they just wanna make a sales and they don't care about you at all. But you also, I guess you don't call it really a technique, but you really focus a lot on building that relationship. How did you develop that idea of selling by first building relationship with your prospective client or customer?

My dad gave stories every night about not giving up. My mother every day told me, be nice to everybody. My qualifier is, though, they have to return that. Yes, I, I just automatically tried to be nice to everybody I encountered. Didn't always work out, but with those that did, things blossomed. Especially in business. Wow.

Because I think it really goes beyond sales because relationship selling, I think, very, very different from transactional selling. And even today, even in politics and many other areas of life, some people are just transactional. They don't really want to build a relationship. They just want to make money or focus on what's in it for me, which is very different than what you are doing. So What differentiates that focusing on relationship or simply being transactional?

Okay. One differentiator for me was when I did get a sale, if it was a big one and the person was obviously nearby, I would take them out for lunch to thank them. And then we'd have a personal conversation.

That's amazing.

And I got repeat business for the long term until my job ended.

Wow.

For those who live far away, I would buy a fancy food basket for them to share with their staff.

Get out of here, nobody does that.

No, no, I was the only one. And so the definition of smooth sale is to earn a returning and referring clientele.

That is amazing. Uh, no, my wife and I, we've bought quite a few homes in Alabama and California. I must tell you The first real estate agent who actually sent us, it was not too expensive, but a gift from Amazon delivered to us like 2 or 3 days after closing. Nobody has ever done that for us before. She was the one who helped us close the next 3 houses we bought because again, nobody has ever done that. It really touched us. We're like, I'm not going to work with anybody else. All of the commission, they're going to go to you. Even if she's in another state now, it doesn't matter. You're going to help us. Close on this house. And I'm sure my daughter is what, 22, 23 years old now? Whenever she's ready to buy her house, I'm going to send her to this woman too. But it's just amazing how something so— it doesn't have to be expensive, but it's meaningful, right? It could really make a huge, huge difference, can't it?

Absolutely. People remember you. Wow.

That is really amazing. So for the leaders who are listening right now, how can they build trust quickly, especially in high-pressure environments?

Well, first you ask what's on your mind, why did you want to talk and take the time, listen carefully. Truthfully, you're not going to understand everything, so you need to ask questions about what they said, not just rush into what you want to say, and take the time to understand them. People are amazed that you take the time to understand them first. And then what happens is once you do understand, you know exactly how to position what it is you have to sell that will most likely increase attention.

Wow, that is really, really powerful. Now, uh, if you are, uh, open to it, you kind of mentioned that in the intro, and I said you were a walking miracle. It's about the near-death experience you had, I think. That's probably one of the sources of your purpose today and in everything you do and how you touch and bless the world. So as a walking miracle, can you share what happened and how it changed your life? You willing to do that?

Yes. Well, very briefly, a gold light encased my entire body. The brilliance of the gold was beyond belief. And then Magically, somehow I was on a gurney waiting at vision, and a first vision came up and showed I was to become a speaker. And in my mind I said, yes, that's what I always wanted to do. And I saw a blink of a gold light, that vision faded, and a second vision came up. It was my life report card. On the left-hand side I had high life marks, but the right-hand side was deeply embarrassing. It was entitled Community Service, and it was completely blank. So in the moment, I promised to begin giving back to communities any way I might. Being the salesperson, I added, but to give my best, I have to be able to walk out of this hospital on my own. I saw another blink of a gold light, and, uh, it dissipated. My family was in consulting and they were deep sobs. They come over to me just as that vision disappears and the gold light disappears. And I said to them, "Go home, get a good night's sleep. I'm going to be fine." They probably thought I was delirious. The next morning, I'm heavily medicated, have a minute to meet with a surgeon, and I expect words of encouragement. Instead, he says, Mrs. Stutz, when you wake up, most likely you'll be paralyzed.

What?

I knew from his words he didn't expect me to survive. So I shot back, Doctor, when I wake up, I fully expect to be well, given what happened the night before. He jumped backwards before cutting me open. And then 4 hours after surgery, he said, there's no rhyme or reason for what happened, but in 4 days you will walk out of this hospital. Wow! And then the entire staff came to visit me, calling me a walking miracle. It took me years, actually over a decade, to figure out everything that happened. There's much more to the story.

Yes.

And it's shared in the latest book, um, Mission Hope: Every Heart Holds a Miracle. And, um, wow, the entire story's there. It's— more stunning things happened afterward.

That is really inspirational. Wow, that's incredible.

Thank you. Never give up.

Yeah, but it looks like it's really everything you've learned from your mom, from your dad, you know, being nice to people, never giving up, keeping that positive mindset. Because for most people, especially when somebody says, I am a doctor, I went to medical school for like 6 years, I have all of the degrees, and I'm telling you you are going to be paralyzed. No, no, no, no, that's not true. I am actually going to be well. Where do you think that conviction, that grit, that resilience came from? That's awesome.

Experience of being in corporate sales, no doubt. And all the bullying I grew up with. And then afterwards, someone who I thought was my good friend said I had no right to speak to the doctor that way. And I'm thinking she has no right to be my friend any longer.

It's what saved my life.

Yes.

Wow. That is amazing, man. I feel like for the leaders who are listening to us now, many people, they do have defining moments that kind of reshape their mission. Was this your moment?

Oh yeah. Wow.

So how did that experience kind of shift your definition of success? Did that change at all?

Oh, it changed tremendously. Meanwhile, someone told me she was a marketing person. She was going to teach me how to use social media. She said, but the only way you can join this group, you have to stop being so highly competitive, be collaborative. That was the scariest thing I ever heard. It was scarier than my broken neck. And I said, okay. But it was the differentiator for me. And then I got into the blogging and I gave away all my experiences, the lessons I learned from them and how people can improve their approaches. So the blog became very popular. I did end the blog a few months ago, but I'm posting regularly on LinkedIn now. That's my number one platform.

Well, that's one thing I see with most leaders. They are very, very generous and they lead what I call with open hands, right? But even like in the Navy, especially as you are a junior officer, you tend to compete against your peers, which, you know, it makes sense. Not everybody is going to get promoted. Only the best will. But I really have learned that you get better by sharing, not by hiding. So for some people it's like, no, this gives me competitive advantage. I know something that you do not know, so I'm not going to share it. I'm going to keep it to myself. But to me, the more you share, the better you are. And it's kind of like having a wave that raises all boats, meaning it's not to your disadvantage to actually share what you know. It actually, in the long term, is going to come back around and help you. Is that the way you feel about collaboration?

Yes. Well, I tell people, if you're working alone, you have one road of possibility. You have 3 people, you multiply 3 times 2 times 1, you have 6 possibilities. Now imagine helping 1,000 people or more. I mean, you can't count that high.

Yes, yes.

Wow. But I wanted to tell you that afterwards, um, I was introduced to Les Brown. He heard about my story and he trained me.

He's my mentor.

Inspirational talks, and every single time he taught me open with a question, it caught the audience's attention, and by the end the applause was thunderous.

It was incredible. Yeah, I love, uh, Les Brown. He's one of my mentors. He's the one who taught me to always reach for the moon. He says that if you don't reach it, maybe you cannot reach the stars, or at least, right, the the ceiling or the roof of your building. But if you don't have a goal, you're definitely not going to end where you want to be. And that is such powerful wisdom. That is really quite amazing. So you do speak often about service, community impact. Why is that so central to your leadership philosophy?

Today? What was the one word?

Uh, service and community impact. Why is that important to you today?

Well, again, it goes to the exponential factor. But when people read your writing or hear you speak, what— however you may be doing it, they tell— they talk about you, whether it's gossip or really meant to be good. And the word spreads. That's branding. That's marketing. I always said I was never a marketing person, but when word began to spread, it was like magic.

That is really, really amazing. So what would you say to leaders listening right now who are chasing success but they don't feel fulfilled?

All right, take time to figure out your communication skills, how you may need to improve the approach. Approach. And you mentioned Dale Carnegie up front. When I was refused training, I took his public speaking class.

Wow.

The first day, I was scared to death to announce my name. By the middle, I was sharing stories. That was the theme of the class— share your stories— and people were laughing. I didn't know if they were laughing at me for putting up what was going on in corporate, or they genuinely liked it. I got the answer last night, not to brag, but I was the grand prize winner. Wow. And it was sharing those stories that was the differentiator among everybody I met.

That's really powerful. Why is storytelling so important? And I think for the great salespeople, they are really, really good at telling stories. Why is that so critical?

Well, it reveals who you really are underneath your title and everything else. It's the genuineness that makes the difference. And that's what people relate to.

That is really amazing. You do have a website as well, SmoothSell. I think you've really built a movement around that.

Well, I have to, but I stopped it. It'll be up for a month or two and then it'll come down. I haven't been adding any blogs to it. I'm just using LinkedIn.

Definitely a movement around trust and referral, right? What does earning, returning, and referring clientele really mean?

What does journaling do?

No, earning, returning, and referring clientele. Oh, I'm sorry. Because all of your clients, right, they come back for more, and then they refer their friends and everybody they know.

Well, if you're a salesperson, that helps you grow. What you can do and earn the prizes that are awarded to you. And if you're an entrepreneur, you get additional business, and the referrals help tremendously. That helps the exponential component. And if, again, um, you attract a lot of interest, it's critical for continuing to be in business. The reason I stay, and I want this as word of advice of experience, you can tell I'm an older female or an older person. A lot of the conversations are pretty boring and mind-numbing. So staying active online keeps my brain active.

Wow. It looks like everything you are teaching really is based on trust because you've even said that trust really is the soul of sales. I've never heard it quite put that way before. How do leaders operationalize trust?

In my opinion, they don't. I stood out that way, and that's why everybody called me a breath of fresh air.

So how did you do it?

Just by being myself, admitting when I didn't know something, asking for a better definition of what they were saying. Yes, for their goals, etc. It just all built trust. Wow, they never met a salesperson like me.

That is amazing. Okay, what about the introvert? I sometimes get that I am not an extrovert like, like you. I don't like speaking to people, or maybe I'm just, you know, a technical professional or whatever. How do you get them to succeed in a relationship bestselling. I am a geek. Yes.

You're not going to believe this because I had no friends. I was an introvert.

Wow.

I was just stepping up to ask those questions, you know, what is the meaning? And I'll give you an example of how it blossomed. Um, when I was about 8, I had no friends, and I, so I decided to play with a bug to see what see more closely what that life was like. And my mother comes running out, "What are you doing? You can't play with bugs." I said, "Why?" She said, "What do you mean why? You're supposed to." I said, "If I don't understand why, I'll continue. But if you give me understanding, I'll know not to do it." You know, she was shocked. Later, I was 10 years old, talked into selling Girl Scout cookies. I'm on the first client's porch, and she says, "Oh, honey, I can't buy cookies. The doctor told me I can't eat sugar." And she closes the door, and I stand there. I didn't know if my question would insult her or not, but she finally opens the door, and she said, "Do you have a question?" I said, "Yes, I'm just kind of curious. Do you have nieces, nephews, grandchildren?" She said, "Yes, why?" I said, "Don't you think they might visit more often if you had sweets in your pantry for them. They said, oh my God, she's good to my mother, and she bought 10 boxes.

Wow, that is amazing. I really like when you go back to asking the question why, because it really makes people think. But I guess when you ask that, you have to pause, right, and just let people be comfortable or uncomfortable with a question and come up with the reason behind their thinking, don't you?

Absolutely. And on the other hand, it shows you're willing to demonstrate that you don't have all the answers. You need help knowing the answers. And that builds trust.

Yes. And because you're really leading with humility, you don't pretend to know things that you don't know. That is so powerful. Wow. Okay. We only have about 15 minutes. I'm having such a great time speaking to you. We're going to be talking about your book, this one, uh, Nice Girls Do Get the Sale: Relationship Building That Gets Results. But before we do, I think I have another question from the audience. Uh, good morning from Glenn, Eastern North Carolina. And Glenn says, uh, selling is important, you need to be able to advocate for your team. That is so true. And, uh, Daniel comes back, says, love how you tie trust repair to the choice to work away. All right, and we have someone else, and Lindsay Murphy, she is so wise, love this convo. All right, lots of love and admiration from the live crowd. Uh, Eleanor, you are known as a walking miracle, and in emergency management we'd call that the red zone. Okay, okay, uh, and Lindsay gives you lots of heart and high fives. Okay, "We love Les Brown." All right, all right. Okay, lots and lots of comments in. I didn't see a question. All right, so let me ask you this. Why did this book have to be written? "Nice Girls Do Get the Sale." Why did you have to write it?

Oh, that's a wonderful question. I started my third entrepreneurship, Smooth Sale, where we lived, and I used to receive applause after every training session there too, Silicon Valley. And we moved further north. And I went to a new networking event, I was asked to introduce myself on stage, I went up, and I announced I was a sales trainer. The boos and the jeers automatically were worse than ever. And I jumped off the stage, I couldn't believe it. And a woman quickly came over to me and said, to establish credibility, you must write a book. Wow. So I thought I didn't have anything to lose. Why not? And it had never occurred to me before. So I wrote what I refer to as a corporate tell-all with names changed to protect the guilty. And story after story came to mind about clients and what happened in the corporate workspace. And it broke all records.

Wow.

Publishing house said yes. It quickly became an international bestseller. And then during COVID when people were stuck home, it became evergreen among the classics. And I always think Dale Carnegie would have been so proud.

Absolutely. But I feel like even in the title, you are trying to break a myth. You say nice, nice girls do get the sale. So what myth were you trying to disprove just with the title alone?

Well, I have to tell you, I was wrong. The publisher came up with that title, and I said, "That's a terrible title. Please say nice people." So they said, "No, just wait and see what happens." So I kept my mouth shut, and they were 100% right.

Man. So from your book, how does empathy translate into measurable business result?

Well, you have to keep a check on yourself when something bad happens at the office or outside. Um, each evening you have to weigh why it upset you. You can't show your reactions in person. You have to keep calm, but weigh the pros and cons and how you want to move forward. Often we do need to make changes in our approaches. And the strong do that. I'm thinking about the lyrics, "The strong shall survive." But anyways, it's important to weigh everything that happens at night to make improvements.

That is really powerful. You're talking about a life of introspection, meaning you are not always right. So you are humble enough to know you can make mistakes, and when you do, you learn from those. That's quite powerful. Have you always had that mindset of always improving and doing things better and learning?

Oh, absolutely. 100%. I think because I was always called stupid, from a young age, I wanted to know how I could do better.

Man, again, that is so inspirational and so amazing because again, Another child, you call them stupid. I have seen some of those kids when I was growing up. They really fall inward. They say, "I am dumb." They start believing it. They start acting that way and their life, they don't even take advantage of opportunities before them because they really internalize that. But you are like, "No, no, no, no, no. I am better than that." That's really remarkable.

Wow. Yeah. Just practice. I'm gonna prove myself.

Man, that is quite inspirational. And especially again, being a woman in a world I believe that was really meant for men. It really reminds me of my mother. She's like, no, no, no, I am going to get my rightful place and nobody is going to be able to stop it. And that's really— so I guess that's partly what drives me too when I think about those who who came before me and all of the challenges they were able to overcome. I'm like, if my mom could do it, there is no way me being her son, I can't do the same. Now I have to find a way through it. And it's, wow, it is powerful. It gives me the chills just thinking about it now.

And I have a metaphor for those who encounter nastiness. Put mentally, put on your superpower cape Wow. Oil it well, fly up above, and when the darts are thrown at your back, they slide down to the ground.

Wow. So you are going to thrive in spite of it. I love it. I love it. So can you share maybe one story where empathy directly led to a major win?

Where empathy? I have so many stories. One's not coming to me. I'll think about it after we have the conversation.

Because one thing I am quite concerned about, I'm sure you've heard about the men, bros, brosphère.

Oh, I have a good one. I'm sorry.

Yes, please.

Okay, I was taught on my first job actually that on holidays to buy miniature candy bars at Costco or wherever and hand it out to everybody. Because sweets change the opinion, they let you in the door. So one day I go to a door, a very heavy door in Silicon Valley, open it up, and there's a guard with a gun. In those days I had never seen a gun before, and I was scared to death. And the guy said, "Don't you dare come back. I don't allow anybody in this building who doesn't work here." I left. Halloween was coming up and I had the candy bars. So, um, and it was a new job. I couldn't tell them I was scared to go back. I had to, and I thought it would be the last day of my life, actually. That's how scared I was. Wow. I grabbed a candy bar and I went to this brass door with all my might, pulled it open, and I wound my arm up like I was going to pitch a baseball and I threw the candy bar at him and I yelled, Happy Halloween! I didn't get shot, obviously.

Yes.

Tears started coming down his face. Wow. And I walked up to him and I heard him mutter, nobody ever gave me anything before. He said, I bet you want the directory of everybody in this company. I shook my head up and down. He said, here's my black book, don't tell anybody, go in the ladies' room, take all the names 'You want, but give me back the book.' I said, 'You've got it.' And then when I did go in for appointments, they said, 'It's amazing, we haven't seen anybody in years since that guard's been here. How'd you get in?' Wow, that is amazing.

What gave you the courage to do that, you think?

Well, because I didn't want to be fired. We had small kids. That was a good part of it.

That is amazing, amazing. Wow, okay. Looks like we only have about 5 minutes left. I wanted to talk at least a little bit about the other book, "Hired: How to Use Sales," because I think especially right now with the way the economy is going, I think we need to talk about this at least briefly. How to use sales technique to sell yourself to interviews. Again, why did you feel like this book needed to be written?

It was at a time when jobs were hard to get and I had a knack for getting hired. And, uh, but when salespeople go on interviews, they're asked stupid questions up front.

Yes.

And one lady asked me, if you could be any animal, which one could it be? So I just started laughing. We took, when my husband worked for an airline, a safari in Africa on the Serengeti Plains. We saw these gorgeous giraffes running on the plains with their fur shining in the light. They were beautiful, graceful. And I said, and besides all of that, people complain that salespeople go after low-hanging fruit. If I were a giraffe, I could get the fruit off the top of the tree. And she said, you're hired.

Wow, that is amazing. So how is interviewing similar to a sales conversation?

Well, you're trying to prove that you're the right person, but it isn't through proof. It's through conversation, understanding what they're seeking and how you may contribute to the benefit of their team and the company overall. So you have to ask questions as, you must receive so many resumes. What is it about mine that stood out? And then you know what to focus on.

That is really, really powerful. What mistakes do you think most candidates make when selling themselves during the interview?

Oh, well, they just go on bragging about all their accomplishments. It's not about them, it's about how you're going to assist the business and help it grow.

Yes, yes.

That's what people don't understand. Wow.

So like back then, today it's a very competitive competitive job market now. I see it's getting a little bit better, at least better than, than last year. But what are your top strategies, based on your book, for standing out in a competitive job market?

Well, first of all, people have to become knowledgeable about AI, cybersecurity, and all of that. And so if I were a candidate, I would upfront ask them how they're implementing AI and cybersecurity, preventing cybercrime, and are they gonna use robotics? I'd ask all those questions as soon as I possibly could so I know what's in store. And then how do they see it affecting the job that's open right now?

That is really amazing. I think the last question I'm gonna ask again because we, we're running, uh, out of time, but I think this is quite important, is about personal branding because you do touch about that too. So how should leaders prepare their personal brand before interviews. And I feel like LinkedIn has a lot to do with that too.

Yeah, standing out is your brand. So the fact that I was ridiculed for not fitting in, I was preparing for business unknowingly.

Wow, that is quite amazing. Okay, we only have a couple of minutes left. Let me ask you this. What is one of the greatest lessons you have ever learned? In life, in leadership in general?

When you're ridiculed, it points you to a better path. And I've learned that our worst lessons are gifts in disguise when we're willing to learn from them.

Wow, that is so, so insightful. Okay, is there a question I should have asked you? We didn't get a chance, uh, I didn't have a chance to ask.

I think it was a wonderful conversation and I appreciate it.

I think I could be speaking to you for like another hour or two. So before we let you go, I want to ask, how can we add value back to you? Thank you so much for being one of our master teachers today, but how can we add value back to you, Eleanor?

Oh, that's very kind of you. If any of the book titles appeal to you, they're available available on Amazon. And Nice Girls Do Get the Sale specifically teaches people how to speak up with questions, plus the stories will make you laugh out loud, as so many people told me. And I hope you find any of them helpful.

And of course, they can follow you on LinkedIn, Eleanor Stokes.

Absolutely. I welcome followers. If you have comments on the post, please do. And if you have content that you might like me to share, I will read it first, obviously.

Yes.

And if it's appropriate for what the messaging, I will repost it.

And you also have your website, which you're gonna be updating soon, but smoothsell.net is where they can find all about your work, right?

Well, they can for now, but it will go away soon.

Yes. Okay. Very, very good. Well, thank you so much for your time today. I am so grateful, so honored and privileged be speaking to you. You have so much wisdom, and I really feel like, again, you've really been really great at sales, but I think things that you've learned can be applied in cybersecurity, in technology, in all of the other industries as well, because I really do believe that leadership is leadership. And thank you so much for sharing your heart with us today. I am so, so honored. So I guess the last question I am going to ask you, if you could go back and ask yourself 17-year-old self, right? What would you tell her based on the incredible career you have had and all of the things you've been able to accomplish in spite of all of the challenges you faced? What would you say to 17-year-old Eleanor?

It would just be an add-on to what my dad kept telling me, "Never give up, find a better way." Find a better way.

Wow, that is so wise. So simple, but so, so deep. I love that. And to end the show, I'd like to end on an optimistic note. Things are going pretty crazy around there in the world, but is there one thing you are optimistic about this day or this year?

That's a very good question. We're in challenging times right now, Stéphane. Shall we say.

Yes.

But I think people are coming out and I hope we become more humanitarian. That's my wish for the future.

Yes. Because I normally ask my guests, if you had the magic wand and you could solve any problem in the world, what is the one problem you would like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

We each have different backgrounds. Everybody can share lessons from their experiences. Therefore, it's wise to listen to every person, no matter their culture, their skin color, where they come from. We need to learn from one another.

That is—

I meant to tell you that when I didn't fit in at age 16, I began traveling overseas and I never stopped. This year I will have been to about 85 countries.

That is amazing. That's why I love America so much, right? Our national E pluribus unum, out of many, one, that melting pot. It truly makes us stronger, I think, than all of the other nations there. It's really our diversity is our strength. Okay, we do have to end. I have more questions for you, but this has been really, really wonderful. The last question I'm going to ask you is, what one word would you use to describe our shared experience on this podcast today? One word.

Relationship.

I love it. And I am so, so grateful. Eleanor Studs, international best-selling author. And thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with my audience today. I am so grateful. Thank you.

It's been a privilege. This is one of the best podcasts. Thank you for having me as your guest.

Thank you so much. I'm really glad we made it happen because I think we had to schedule 2 or 3 times, but I am so glad we made this happen. This has been really, really insightful. Thank you so much, Eleanor.

I will send you a message.

Thank you. All right, everybody, this is definitely one for the books. And thank you so much for watching. And again, I want everybody to follow Eleanor on LinkedIn. So that's linkedin.com/eleanorstutz. And also get all of her books, but especially these two books we talked about today, Nice Girls Do Get the Sale and Hired. And I think no matter what you do, no matter your industry, these books can really help you. All right. And let's see, it looks like, yeah, I don't see any more question in the chat. So before we end the podcast, I want to let you guys know that tomorrow I am going to have a great privilege of speaking with Master Chief Petty Officer Jamie J. McCoy. He also has a PhD in theology. US Navy retired aviation and UAS safety innovator. He's a builder of people and a great strategist. We're gonna be talking about servant leadership at scale, from sailor to strategy. You do not want to miss that. That's going to be tomorrow. So as you guys know, I always, we celebrate Black History Year on the podcast because we felt like 28 days in February wasn't long enough. So just for, Today, actually, two things. One, we talked about the very first African American to serve as a governor, and that was Governor Pinkney Benton Stewart Pinchback from Louisiana. I have written a post about that on LinkedIn. You can read it. But then today, on April 8th, 1974, That was the night that Hank Aaron became history on April 8th, 1974. It was rewritten in the city of Atlanta because that's when he really broke the record from Babe Ruth. So I am going to play a short video about that. It's just a couple of minutes and we are going to end the show this way, celebrating the incredible career of Hank Aaron. All right, bye for now, and I hope to see you tomorrow.

Bye, thank you. 51 years ago, an all-time baseball moment occurred in Atlanta, Georgia. Let's relive that marvelous milestone in baseball history. And it doesn't take a mind reader to read the collective mind that's here in this ballpark tonight. They came to see him pass the bat. Once again, a standing ovation for Henry Aaron. To the confrontation for the second time. Aaron walked in the second inning. He means the tying run at the plate now, so we'll see what Downing does.

Down at the belt, delivers, and he's low. Ball one.

And that just adds to the pressure. He's sitting on 7-4 pace. Here's the pitch. By Downing. Swinging! There's a drive into left center field! That ball is going to be out of here!

It's gone!

It's 7-15! There's a new home run champion! Of all time, and it's Henry Aaron! The fireworks are going. Henry Aaron is coming around third. His teammates are at home plate, and listen to this crowd! What a marvelous moment for baseball. What a marvelous moment for Atlanta And the state of Georgia. What a marvelous moment for the country and the world. I think that people can look at me and say, you know, he was a Great baseball player, but he was even a greater human being.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.