#H2HChat The Power of Niche Marketing with Sue B. Zimmerman

Hey, everybody, how are you doing? This is Bryan Kramer. Welcome back for another H2H Chat. Really excited to be here with my good friend Sue Zimmerman. Sue, how are you doing today?

I am awesome. Thanks for having me, buddy.

Thank you so much. Really appreciate you being on. I know we just got this together last week, but the good thing is that we both love to just riff and this is going to be a lot of fun doing that. So give me a— give me a— give everybody— I know who you are, but give everybody an idea as to who Sue is.

Yeah. So Subi is a passionate entrepreneur who has turned into an online educator. Prior to teaching Instagram marketing, I have had 18 different businesses, primarily in the consumer product space. I had my very first million-dollar business out of college when I was just 22, selling silkscreened boxer shorts. I don't know if you even know that, Bryan. Did you know that? No.

No. Yeah,

I got to walk around in boxer shorts all day that said Harvard and Yale. And so, you know, we sold to Disney and we— it was during— I spotted this trend and I knew it was going to be huge. And I knew if we could customize boxer shorts and make them like a Hallmark card, like reason to purchase and really niche down on what I was selling off of my pushcart, which at the time was t-shirts and hats and sneakers. But I focused, I got laser-focused in that business, and boxer shorts became a really big thing. And I can bet you that a lot of people have some kind of custom boxer shorts with either their college or their camp on it, right?

Right, right. Oh, that's funny. It's funny, my, um, my 12-year-old just switched over to boxer shorts. They are the, they are the biggest thing at that age now. I didn't realize that. So, so, so you've, you've had 18 businesses. That's, that's fantastic. How— today's topic is about niche marketing. And I'm curious now, let's go back into your past. We'll go into the present and then we'll talk about the future. Sure. So let's talk about the past. Your, your 18 businesses, was that within the same genre of niche marketing? Would you say that That you've, you've always been that way?

Yeah, I think I have a knack for knowing trends and opportunity and knowing when to punt and knowing when to morph and change and, and go with what the market is dictating. And I think a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs have a hard time with transitioning into change, or being open to completely new opportunities or vertical markets. because they just know what they know and they think they're good at what they know. And they're not responding to the marketplace. And, you know, case in point, look what's happening to all the retailers now. So yeah, I've had that knack. I've had, you know, that small, you know, I've been playing small as an entrepreneur, meaning small and often, other than that first business, Boxer Rebellion, it was geographically had businesses either teaching art classes or teaching social media or selling t-shirts from pushcarts or creating consumer products. They weren't huge market reach like we have today, Bryan, the way that you and I do business.

So you're okay. So you're— you then moved into and you've owned a— you've owned a store last, last year and you refocused your life and your business. Tell us about that.

Yeah, so the reason I started a store is because I was like, um, traveling all over the place. I was what you call a direct-to-consumer vendor, and I would sell at temples and the craft shows and the boat show and the tall ships. And I would schlep. I was like a professional schlepper. I would pack up my stuff, set up a tent, set up a table, and sell at colleges and universities and all these places. And then the opportunity to have a little retail store on Cape Cod became available. And the beautiful thing about this store, uh, Sooby Doo, is that it was seasonal. So I did not have to pay rent all year. I only paid rent during the high season. And my parents at the— lived on the Cape, and they still do. And I stayed with them in the summer, and I— my daughters all went to summer camp, and I worked out of my store. And then my husband and I, 4 years ago, actually bought property on the Cape. So now I have a home there. But I was able to Again, in my store, my focus, my market niche was selling preppy and oh-so like Nantucket-y, Martha's Vineyard products that were jewelry, clothing, and accessories. And a lot of the products that I sold, I was able to design with artists and get exclusive representation of certain things that I created and designed, which was great. So let's, you know, take it back to the topic here. My niche was really making people feel like if they bought anything from my store, it made you I love that.

So the experience is what you're, you're always digging into.

Yeah, I think, you know, as a retailer, it's not just selling something and have them leave the store. The experience for me was doing feathers in the kids' hairs or chalking them or doing nails or painting shells, or as of late, taking an Instagram photo if they purchase something and making it fun. fun and making it memorable and making it something that people would want to share on social, on Instagram, online, or talk to their friends about the really cool little shop Subidoo at the Pompanoessent Marketplace. And so much of my business came from Instagram, came from online activity.

That's awesome. So you learned how to integrate social to do that. And, and you, you went after a certain area, a certain niche. How did you pick your niche?

Because that's how I dress. And that's how I live. It's kind of my life. If you were to say like, that's my lifestyle branding. Like I, I wear bright, vibrant clothing with a classical Cape Cod, New England look and vibe. That's my fashion preference. And I love being near the water. And I love everything about the Cape. So it's woven into my branding even today. But Picking and choosing products to sell for the store was really fun, but it became, you know, a huge time suck. I mean, traveling to trade shows, meeting with buyers, buying the goods, merchandising the goods, and selling the goods. It's hard. It's hard work being an owner of a retail store. And I love that you can do so much of that online, especially on Instagram now.

Okay. So you, you, you had this, this, this store, you had, you had a niche, you've had 18 of them. How, how would you suggest people find their niche?

For me, it's always been intuition. And I think it's because I have the DNA of, of an entrepreneur. My father was a business owner and it's something, you know, Gary Vee talks about this a lot, but I believe it. Like I, I'm, I was born this way. I had my very first business when I was 13 and, and I was selling things ever since I was a little girl. And yeah, I was the kid that sold the most Girl Scout cookies because there was a prize. So I always wanted the prize. I always wanted to sell the most. It's just, it's just who I am. I love selling things that I believe in and things that I feel good about. So everything I do comes from the heart. And I always, I just have my, I have a pulse, you know, Malcolm Gladwell in The Tipping Point. If anyone hasn't read that book, you should. It's a great book. You know, I have the light bulb moments frequently. by just simply observing people's behaviors and the way that they act. And I have a knack for it.

You, you certainly do. You are. And real quickly, I just want to remind everybody who is on Twitter right now or anyone that's new that you can use the hashtag #H2HChat to start asking questions, because in the second half, I'm going to turn your questions into questions that we're going to ask of Sue. So please go ahead and use #H2H, throw out your questions, and we'll all pick those up for you and, and make sure that they get asked. The second thing is anytime the word human gets used in this H2H chat, this happens. So let's not forget. And, and we're here talking with Sue B. Zimmerman about niche marketing. Sue, you've done a phenomenal job this last couple of years Or more in working on Instagram. Now you've come to be— I mean, look at the sign behind you, Insta Happy, and I've got a sign actually right there. How do we like that? So my H2H sign that I have up normally travels with me, and I really appreciate that, by the way. Yeah. You've done a great job actually building a really solid methodology using Instagram. But not only that, but also looking at how niche marketing can be used on Instagram. Why don't you explain that a little bit?

Sure. Well, I think it's, first of all, it's a very noisy world out there, folks. Let's, let's, let's start with that. And how are you going to get someone's attention? It's hard. It's really hard. And so I'm always thinking about and staying true to who I am and my brand. How can I stand out from all the noise? And these signs that are now floating all over the internet actually were my store and they didn't sell. I was before my times because in my retail store, InstaCapeCod, people are like, what is #CapeCod? And so I, I knew that if and when I went to conferences, and by the way, you guys, I met Bryan in 2014 at Social Media Marketing World. I had no idea who he was, but I will tell you this, I am the person that schleps my hashtag signs wherever I go. And there was a step-and-repeat banner that I would just park and stay at. And someone said to me, oh, that's Bryan Kramer and he's really famous.

He's a

great—

And you said, whatever.

No, I said, like, the first thing I did was like, I smiled at you and I'm like, can we take a picture? And there you have it. Bryan wraps his leg around me and we, we have this really fun—

Does he have a wife?

We're both happily married, right? So I loved your personality from the very first moment you and I met. And I believe, you know, talking about niche, like what can you do to stand out from the noise? And I am someone who is passionately taking photos because I love to make people feel inclusive. And I know that when I put a hashtag sign or an Instagram pillow in somebody's hand, there's one over there. right there. That people are more apt to feel like they're included and part of the party as opposed to just taking a photo. So my props are a part of that niche marketing when it comes to Instagram. And like, yeah, I even have Instagram cookies. So how's that? So it's like, how can you stand out? How can people remember you? And when it's so noisy out there, That's what I'm always thinking about. And it even goes down, like, down to, like, wearing bright clothes that, that I wear because I like them, not to stand out, but it's truly who I am. And it just helps to stand out because Bryan's, like, rocking the black all the time. Right?

It's true. That's my costume. So, OK, so, so let's talk about how, how to really use Instagram in, in creating Yeah, I mean, you really aren't creating a niche. You're rising out of the noise within a niche. How do you do that?

Yeah, so there's a lot of people that claim or say they teach Instagram marketing, some better than others. I'm like, so I'm competing for all of that state, all that space, that same stage, I guess. And so the way that I do that, and I know that you do that, is I show up, I stay top of mind every day, I say yes to any opportunity where I can amplify, broadcast, and promote who I am and what I do so that other people start talking about me and I don't have to talk about myself as much anymore. And so whether it's speaking on stage or being, you know, contributing to a blog post or a chapter in a book, like showing that I really walk the talk. I don't just pull stats and random quotes and information from the internet that everyone else does about how to use Instagram for business. I literally teach tactics that business owners can actually implement and do. And I am so passionate about helping other business owners, small business owners, have true success in their business. And to me, success is honestly attracting those that you're meant to be doing business with and making more money doing what you love. Because Bryan, you probably know this as well, so many people suffer Uh, and making money. And I don't— I think people overthink it. I think people overcomplicate how, how easy it can be if you just are— be yourself and, and give value. Everyone hears this over and over again, give value. Well, what is value? Like, like, that's a whole nother conversation. But giving value that actually helps somebody with their struggles and their pain points so that they can get to the next step. in their journey and say, wow, that really did work. Those hashtags that she talks about in our hashtag handbook actually attracted the followers that I want to attract on Instagram and not the ones that unfollow me a day later.

Right. Totally. And just to throw this out, Jason Martin just said— and you're getting all kinds of great tweets right now— but Jason Martin said, Sue B. Zimmerman may just be the person to convince me to use Instagram. We'll see. So he's, he's And so we're going to, we're going to, we're going to have a, we're going to try and have a convert here by the, by the end of the session. And, and so, Sue, why not? Could, could I coax you into just sharing maybe a couple of those? Like, you don't have to share all your secret sauces, but maybe, maybe like a couple of things. You mentioned you get 250 people to sign up for your newsletter every week just off of an opt-in off of Instagram.

Yeah. And we're going to give that away at the very end of this interview. So don't leave us, you guys. Those of you that multitask, stay with us. Yeah, so I believe that on Instagram, you know, people, people try all kinds of gimmicky things. And I know for a fact that, that— let me use this analogy. I'm gonna use this analogy, Bryan. I know it's gonna help. So if you think of Instagram as your favorite magazine, and this is a really good magazine, Where Women Create Business, and I had the pleasure of being on the COVID of this awesome magazine right next to Oprah and Vogue magazine in Barnes& Noble. Wow. Yeah. So this is a great magazine.

That deserves a special

applause. Thank you.

Oh yeah.

And it was like, it's all about the artists and the crafters and the creators in the world, and they deserve applause. Absolutely. So when people purchase a certain magazine, they purchase it because they know that they're going to get the content that they paid for in that magazine. They're going to get the look and the feel and the vibe of the theme of that topic, whether Success Magazine or Newsweek or People or whatever it is that you want to look at. And if you view Instagram as your digital magazine with content that aligns with who you are in your market niche, you show up for your business, not your personal life, not your dogs and your kids and your vacations. Yes, I have a personal Instagram account. @subiezimmerman for all of that. But my business account, The Instagram Expert, literally teaches you tips, tools, tactics, and tells you Instagram updates. And that's how I show up. And when you show up that way, you do attract people that you're meant to be serving. Now, with that said, you have to be set up for success. So I will tell you some of those things that you need to be cognizant of as you create your business profile. And I have on my blog, subizimmerman.com/blog, about 4 or 5 weeks ago, I did a post all about business profiles that you guys can definitely check out after, after you listen to this interview. But it's all about the business, the business of what you do and how do you humanize who you are and what you do in your business. Because at the end of the day, People do not want to do business with logos. They want to do business with people. And so if your avatar is your logo and you're not GoPro or Starbucks or Lexus and you're a small business or social media agency, people want to see smiling faces. People want to see the person, not the logo on Instagram. Can you show your logo? Absolutely. Show it creatively in some of your posts. The other, the other thing about Instagram is that I always teach is that you want to emotionally pull people into your visual content. So whether it's your video or it's your photo, you want to pull them in emotionally so they feel like they are actually with you experiencing what you're experiencing. So the most successful accounts on Instagram, sometimes you see their body parts like their arms in, their arms in with a mug or their hands are holding something or Maybe they're putting on makeup and they're looking up. They're not looking at the camera. They're looking down at a device or they're reading something. They're pulling you in. So the photo first and foremost is fabulous. I, I say this, your photo has to be the North Star photo, or in Bryan's case, the full friggin moon. Okay. Because let's face it, you guys, this month we are in for a treat. With what we're gonna be looking up at the sky with. And Bryan captured the moon in a beautiful way on Instagram.

Now I cheated, by the way. I took that with my Nikon really nice camera.

Okay, well, you did a really good job. Yeah, I was, I was checking you out. You did a great job. But thank you. The point is you want, you want to have a fabulous photo first and foremost that aligns with your business and your brand and your core values and all the things that you do. So those of you that literally go and check out what everyone else is doing, who does what you do, or all your competitors, you don't do what they do. You look at what they do, you get maybe some inspiration from what they do and some ideas, and then you say, how can I be different? How can I be me? How can I stand out and give even more value and show up in a way that they're going to be attracted to my business and services? And I think especially in this social media online marketing space, people just look at other people who deem to be successful, like they maybe they have a lot of followers, and they think, okay, well, they have a lot of followers, they're clearly doing something right. And it's not always the case. Because if you start creating an account with just quotes and text overlay, that's not Instagrammable. A quote every now and again is fabulous if it aligns with your business, and your brand. And it's not Seth Godin's quote or Tony Robbins or Gary Vaynerchuk, because maybe they have nothing to do with your business. You're just simply trying to get followers and likes, but you're attracting the wrong followers and likes. So strategically, because I'm super strategic, strategically you need to think long and hard about who is your avatar, who are you trying to serve, and you need to find out where Are they hanging out? And what do they love? What brands do they love? Do they travel? Where do they shop? Do they have a dog? Like, who are they? Because once you know who they are, then you can start attracting them. And I could talk about this for hours, so I'll just shut it down right now so you can ask me the next question.

That's all right. I'm— at the same time I'm listening, I'm also fielding lots of great questions that are coming in. Keep those questions coming. I'm right— I've got them All down, so we're gonna get to them. Um, and, and then also I wanted to congratulate you, Sue, and everyone out there because we're now trending number 48 in the United States on Twitter. So congrats to everybody for trending yet again, and we love, love it that the fact that you guys are all participating so much. And Sue, your content is obviously going crazy, so we love everything that's going on. Thank you guys. Um, so, so, um, so let's, um Let's talk about how can— I know we're going to get to conversion, but how do we get to a place where people want to follow you? They don't know who you are.

Right.

And you just want to convert them to a follower just so you can get them into your world. How do you get a follower?

Yes, that's a great question. So there are people on Instagram that aren't very nice sometimes. They simply follow you and hope that you follow them back. And if you don't follow them back, they unfollow you. follow you. And people always say to me, oh my gosh, Sue, I'm at the same number. I haven't been able to get any new followers. And I said, you know what? Pay attention to the followers that you have. Nurture those followers, engage with them, and continue to give them great value. Because guess what? They will start talking about you and tagging their friends on your content, and you'll start attracting more people who you're meant to be serving. I have a hashtag Shit ton of followers on my Instagram accounts, but most of them don't even engage, write a comment, or double tap and like my post. But the ones who do, I acknowledge, I answer every question, I nurture those relationships, and I hope that everyone clicks the link in my bio that takes them to my opt-in, which people say they would pay for because it's so good. But that's That's free. And then Bryan, like you, I'm sure, we nurture them over a 2-week period before we even start sending them our recent blog posts. We try to get to know them and we want them to know me because there are so many people saying that they teach Instagram marketing. And for me, it's more important to gain their trust than to make a sale out of the gate. So yes, we get 200— I get 100 new followers on Sue B. Zimmerman every day and 100 new on the Instagram Accelerator. Wow. Want me to tell you one of my ninja tips?

Yes, please.

So on Instagram, you guys, direct messages are amazing, especially now with the Instagram stories. I get so many amazing comments from my stories and on Subi Zimmerman today, I actually talked about Bryan and I linked to Bryan on my stories. Bryan, I bet you got some new followers today because of it from my story. So I gave a shout out to Bryan, which now on Instagram stories, OMG is a hyperlink. You just click it and you go right to Bryan. That just happened 4 days ago or 5 days ago. And so in an Instagram story, what I started doing when new people follow me, I like video, I'm comfortable on video. You might not be, you might wanna send a photo or a quote, but I literally created a video talking to the camera saying, thanks so much for following me on Instagram. Make sure that you click the link in my bio, which gives you my Instagram strategy guide. It's 13 pages long. It will help set you up for success. success on Instagram, especially if you're a beginner. And then, you know, I think I started the video with, hey, I'm Sue B. Zimmerman. So I did this very comfortable, not professional video that's so perfect and polished. I'm outside with the foliage and I'm welcoming my new followers. And some of those followers might not have clicked the link in my bio yet, which is always my goal. To either drive traffic to my webinar opt-in or my blog so I can retarget on Facebook or my opt-in to grow my list. Because Bryan and I both know that our email lists are gold and it's the way that we get to stay connected to each and every one of you that has showed up here today. So does that help you kind of understand how you can keep the follower, gain the follower, have the follower?

Yes, absolutely. That is absolutely brilliant. As I, as I, as I knew you would use stuff like that. But how did— in a direct message, how do you not come across as spammy?

Honestly, like, if you hear my Boston accent and see my smile and look at my eyes, there is nothing I do that's spammy. I mean, I'm not like, you know, hardcore internet marketer reading a script. Mm-hmm. Telling people what to do, watching eyes get scrolled on a screen. I'm like walking outside talking to you. And I think that if people could just get used to the idea that your phone is literally the customer that you want to be doing business with on the other end, and you are talking to one person, that's how you rock a video. And I think I do a really good job at that. I've had a lot of practice from being active on Periscope, Snapchat, and Instagram Stories. Let's just say that.

Oh man, you know, we're getting some, some really awesome feedback here from everyone and some great questions. Again, keep the questions coming. We're gonna be taking those questions here in just a few minutes at #H2HChat. We're on with Sue B. Zimmerman and we're talking about niche marketing, even more specifically how she grew over 18 businesses in an entrepreneurial spirit. Just before Before we start to dive into those questions, Sue, maybe you can talk about how to build a non-ego-driven Instagram account because a lot of people post, and while we do want pictures of ourselves, we don't want to see just pictures of ourselves. So how do you grow something that is authentic, that is human, that doesn't grow the ego?

Yeah, that's such a good question, Bryan. No one's ever asked me that. So if you look at my Instagram account, I actually am looking at it while I'm talking so I can, I can go to that ego place. So again, remember I said photos need to be the North Star photo. Well, people also need to see your face. And if you're, if you're like, you have to be walking the talk because anyone on Instagram can look beautiful and perfect and grab photos from anywhere. So I want people to know that every one of my photos is like a photo I've done in my photo shoot or my photo. And if it's not my photo, giving attribution to the content creator. But I live, eat, and breathe teaching Instagram marketing every single day. And if you go through this and you look at it, it gives you a sense of not just being connected to me, the human side of Sue B, but also it gives you the vibe of the new Instagram logo. And that goes back to the theme that I was talking about. Yeah. With having like a digital magazine, I know that my feed feels happy. It feels authentic. There's a lot of color and the color is all inspired by the colors of the Instagram logo. I'm so lucky that Instagram changed their logo, you know, from their— I have it right here— from this brown one, which we all love, right? To this really colorful one that just gives me an opportunity to

Right?

Yeah, bright, bright clothes that I love wearing. So, so I, you kind of have to play to your ego a little bit in that you need to rock your greatness and be confident that what you're sharing is, is good stuff. And if you don't, nobody else is going to at first. But once you prove your tactics work, other people talk about you, like I said. And that, I think, to me, that is success. Real success is when you don't have to be talking about how good you are at doing something, but your tribe, your fans, your followers, your friends, you know, I call them hivers because I'm Sue B. So they're in my hive. I'm building a colony.

You are the queen bee.

They start buzzing about it. Did you get that?

I did. Okay, I did. Um, okay, so, so let's dive into some questions. Of course, we're gonna weave in some more as we go. You can keep your questions coming at #H2HChat. We're on with Subi Zimmerman. Oh, I see another question just came in from Patricia, so we will take that down. Um, but I'm gonna get going on the questions here, and we'll, um, We'll hit them as we go. Okay, here's the first one. And, uh, believe it or not, I had my glasses— uh, I went, went to a race car, a little go-kart place with my 12-year-old son this weekend, put my glasses into the cubby, and they were taken. And I can't read right now. So if you see me squinting and getting very close, that's why.

That's why. Okay, no problem.

Here we go. Thanks. Shirley Plant said, learning from Sue in her hive. How cool is that? I'm hoping to find my niche in wellness, how food heals and active sitting with a core chair. I think her question is, how would I— how would she dig in deeper into this sort of niche in the wellness? Yeah. So Shirley's— Active sitting.

Yeah. So Shirley's awesome. She is amazing at healthy recipes and actually healed herself from eating healthy and she's also affiliated with the most comfortable chair you could possibly want to sit in called CoreChair that works your core and I have it at my house on the Cape and everyone should definitely check that out. So it's hard. So what her struggle is and Bryan, maybe I'd love to hear your input on this and I've been trying to help her. Her struggle is she kind of healed herself with her food, eating healthy and she's really passionate about wellness and health and self-care. And part of that self-care comes from this physical chair that she's able to sell and make commission on. Obviously, everyone needs to make money and pay the bills. So that helps her pay the bills. That's something she really believes in, but she can't be pitching and selling a chair all day. It's just, no, no one likes that. So, so for Shirley, I think bringing that core chair into her visuals as intrigue and interest. around her health and wellness recipes and cookbooks is the best way to do it. And I'm curious if you, at the top of your mind, now knowing what her challenge is, have any advice for her?

Yeah, well, I think that's great. I totally agree with you. My take is that sometimes when you— sometimes you need to show, not tell. And so by living a healthy lifestyle and showing what a healthy lifestyle looks like, then people will want to mirror that. And, and, and I think healthy lifestyle can bring about— I mean, just think about the images in life that, that, that prove that you can live healthy and still, you know, still, you know, market in a certain way. And so I think that that would be my answer. What motivating words would you give to a business, to business people who want to use Instagram but are camera shy or a bit introvert?

Good question. So there's always a thing called #deskies where, I mean, you don't have to physically be in the photo. And you heard me say earlier, sometimes it's body parts. It can be you holding a mug that has a message on it, or it can be like you're from the, you know, maybe you wear hats. I wear a lot of hats. So maybe it's a photo from the hat down, from the top down, bird's eye views on Instagram and from the ground up. Angles do really well. So looking straight on at the camera is not necessarily Instagram-worthy in my opinion. It's more conversational. So maybe it's the back of you facing somebody else having a conversation and you're talking about networking and the power of networking at a conference. So you don't have to be in the photo every time. If it is your business, Yes. I definitely know for a fact that people want to get to know, like, and trust you. So maybe having some strategies how you can overcome your, you know, being an introvert or being camera shy. There's, there's ways to work at that. Let me just tell you guys something. Before I was on QVC, and that was one of my businesses on TV, I was nervous as cray-cray being in front of a camera. Okay. Yeah, I'm like, wait, what camera am I looking at? And she's like, oh, I'm like, there's 7. Which one do I stare at? Like, I was so crazy nervous. So you just, the more you do anything in your life, the better you get. So start on Snapchat. You can always delete those snaps.

Let's just give it, give me a minute or less on Snapchat versus Instagram Stories. I know you've probably been asked this a million times, but, but, but what is— where do you see the difference?

Yeah, I love this question. I was an avid Snapchatter for a good 6 to 9 months. I had a good following. I got about 500 views per snap and people followed me everywhere. I think Snapchat is a great photojournalism app for someone like me. I take you with me. I talk to you about what I'm doing. I share the people I'm with and I talk about my life. It's, it's basically the day in the life of Subi and what she's doing, what she's eating, what she's drinking, and the life of a busy entrepreneur versus Instagram Stories where I'm extremely intentional about bringing value. Because here's the thing, Bryan, I had thousands and thousands and thousands of people following me on Instagram already who knew me versus Snapchat, random people. I have no idea who's following me because I don't even know what their names are because they don't— they have numbers in them and there's just no, like, I don't know who half the people are that follow me on Snapchat. So my relationship with them is not quite as intimate as it is on Instagram. And so I knew showing up on Instagram with an Instagram story was going to be— I had to uplevel the content and the content on a story, because it's a story. There's a beginning, middle, and end. It's not random clips of your life throughout the day. So if you're going to use Instagram stories, and I do have an amazing little mini class that we can talk about if you want, where I taught for an hour how to use Instagram Stories. You need to understand the, the different tactics and the different ways that you can get super creative from the tools to the filters and all of that, because Instagram Stories, I, I am so conscious of, of giving great value on both of my accounts and making it really short, under a minute. No one's gonna watch all of your clips. If you treat, treat it like Snapchat, that's the biggest difference is the duration of the story.

Fantastic. Thank you so much. You're welcome. OK, let's, let's keep this going. Here we go. We've got Wayne Kurtzman. He said, what is your favorite tool to manage and measure content for multiple IG accounts?

Oh, interesting. So I like looking at my business insights right inside the business profile account. If you're an agency or someone manage them, them, I would strongly suggest that you have a Pro Iconosquare account where you can measure data. And also another great one from our good friend Emmerich, Algoripulse, has great data that you can track. Those are 2 that I would recommend, or even Localwise if you're a bigger business. I think it's a little bit more expensive, but Ian, the owner of Localwise, just interviewed me recently and he's got an amazing piece of software to measure all of that.

Oh wow, that's great. Thank you for that. Um, Mitch Jackson said, is it a good idea to post and then tell people to click using the link in your bio, or is this an ineffective approach?

Hello, Mitch Jackson. I'm so glad that you're on with us. Um, so you need to be a little bit bossy and have a CTA, call to action, if you want people to take action. I always say you need to be talking to people as if they're 10 years old sometimes on Instagram and be very very direct with your messaging. Not every post, not every post should be click the link in my bio to download my strategy guide, click the link in my bio to do this, click the link. You want to just be chill sometimes. If you know, if you're just simply giving a nice quote or there's a little humor, humor that you could, you know, people love to laugh more than anything else. So to answer Mitch's question, having a call to action is really important, but it is not something I recommend in every post.

Fantastic. Thank you. Dawn Renshaw, great. Another great person. How do you convince a shy person to get their personality on the— on an Instagram account? You kind of talked about this a little bit.

Dawn, good to see you here as well. I know Dawn. She's great. So I would write down— I would open up a journal and I would write down a list. Of your top 10 or 20 character traits. And if you don't feel like you know them, do it in a focus group, in a Facebook group. Ask, just ask people. I've done this many times. What are the 5 top words that you think of when you think of me? And I want to know what they are so that I can use them in my messaging and I can use them in just everything that I do. Because if those are the words that people are thinking about you with, Yeah. Chances are those are character traits that you want to amplify on Instagram.

Fantastic. Thank you, Randy. I'm going to keep going through the list here.

We got—

you're pulling in the questions. Randy Theo, another, another great H2H community and person and friend. Is it just me or are traditional IG posts still getting more engagement compared to IG stories?

So I've switched to— you mean IG stories? Oh, meaning this. OK. post. No, I think that stories, I mean, here's what I want to say about stories. You all can be frontiers in your Instagram stories. My daughter Lila, 20 years old, @freshfitandfearless on Instagram, is making money every day on Instagram selling her ebook, which she's vegan. She went to a conference in Tampa. Rich Roll was there, in Miami, and it was the seed, the Wine and Seed Food Show, whatever. Every single speaker told her that you are frontiers. Get on Instagram Stories and start creating great stories and be known as the person in your niche. We're talking about niche marketing here today, folks. So that people say, oh my gosh, you have to watch Sue B. Zimmerman because she talks about Instagram Story, Instagram tips on her stories, and she's hysterical. Or, you know, you need to, you really need to watch Bryan because the word human, it's more important It's important to have the human aspect of your business. Yes. And then, you know, the, the people-to-people more than the brand. So you can be known as that person and get eyeballs on your stories if they're good. If your stories suck, no one's gonna click the link and follow you. Your story— don't do stories unless you feel like it's gonna give ad— think of it as the icing on a cake. It is, or the cherry on top. It is the opportunity to go deeper into something greater. So if you're starting at the top and you're not even giving the value, chances are you're going to lose people instead of gain people. So I say take your time and think about how can you add some more value. If you make something, show how you make it, show the behind the scenes, show like for Bryan, his whole setup of his pod— of his office right now. I bet you guys are all interested. He's probably got a kick-ass mic and all kinds of stuff, notes going on and 3 computers. And, you know, he's got a team. So it's like, I want to learn about that. So think of ways that you can become that frontier and that go-to person in your industry.

You just gave me a great idea.

I know I did.

All right. So, so we are getting so much awesomeness today. Thank you so much, Sue. Oh, you're welcome. This is fantastic. I'm going to keep going on the questions. Here we go. Patricia said, question, what is the greatest personal attribute a person should nurture

I think honesty.

Wow.

I think, you know, honesty and, and also, um, compassion and, and humanity. I mean, I, I think, you know, I truly know how fortunate I've been my whole life. I know that, uh, you know, just the successes I have had have, you know, a lot of people suffer. I didn't know how many people suffered until I, until I started teaching Instagram. I just didn't know that most of the world is challenged with making money, and I feel like I can help people. I can really help people. Let me help you. And I think the more honest I am with how I can help people, the more people I will be able to help. So for me, I mean, I'm curious what word you would pick. I mean, I know that you're not being interviewed, but, but I know that you and I align with a lot of our same values.

Mine's not that far from yours, Sue. My word would be, and it's not an— it's not a verb, but it's humanity. And very close to my own brand, it's not surprising that I would, I think, put the word human in there. But I think humanity, especially given right now what we're all facing on any level, on any side, no matter what your your political choices are, religion, or who you are, what you are in terms of business or personal life. I think we could all use a little more humanity in our lives. And that's, you know, that's coming to be even more important in just the next few years as things like chatbots and automation and AI and virtual reality and all those things start to come. I think humanity is going to be even more incredible and incredibly needed. So thank you for asking me that.

Yeah.

OK, so, so Mitch Jackson threw another question here. Sue, how are you integrating Instagram with their live streaming efforts on other platforms?

Yeah, so I have a whole system. I actually— this is part of my presentation when I do keynotes. It's called my 3-for-1 amplification strategy for social media, how to get more eyeballs on on your business so that you can actually get those opt-ins. So I have something where, and I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna say this quickly so we can get to more questions, but I always start my content with a YouTube video. From that video, it is transcribed and sent to the person that writes the blog, which is not Sue B. And we then have a blog with a YouTube embedded in it. When that gets published, it is my job to amplify and promote it across Social. So social for me is Periscope, Facebook Live, and Instagram. Am I on Twitter? Absolutely. Do I do Instagram Stories? That's part of Facebook, part of Instagram. So the more amplification I can give to the content that we spend so much time creating that lives on our website, the more success that we have. Mm-hmm. Facebook, any live streaming, I think, and I know that Mitch knows this well, is I have grown my business, my revenue in my business tremendously from— I have all the props, by the way— from Periscope. Periscope. I have made so much money from Periscope because let's go back to the human aspect of everything that we do and are. You cannot hide behind a camera. You can, you know, your accent, you know, like stumbling on words and maybe your camera drops and your dog pulls you on your, you know, my arm. People, people love the human aspect of the realness, the real raw authentic. Yeah. The real raw authentic aspects of live streaming, in my opinion, is so important in anyone's business. And I, I love that Live streaming has been such a part of my business and brand ever since Periscope/Meerkat started. And now, by the way, Bryan, I don't think you know this, but Instagram is going to be launching within the app the ability to do live streaming very soon.

Wow. So, um, do you, do you feel like that's going to compete with Facebook Live?

It might, but I'm super excited because I'm more comfortable on Instagram. I don't know about you, but getting ready for a Facebook Live, Facebook Live of everything I do is the most nerve-wracking thing I do because it lives on forever. I want the lighting to be perfect. I want my content to be really good. But when I get on Periscope, I can go on and on on my terms and it's fine. It's just like a different mental setup for Facebook Live. Yeah.

Right. No, I agree. I agree. Thank you. Okay, so I'm gonna keep going on the questions here. We've got just 10 more minutes here. And by the way, hang tight. Don't leave just yet because we have a— Sue has a surprise for you and it's going to be well worth the wait here. So we'll release that here in just another couple of minutes. But Jason Michael said, I'm always confused about Instagram stories. You know what? He asked about Snapchat stories versus Instagram. I think you answered that. Lisa Leffler said, question for Sue. Love Lisa. What are some great resources to put together an awesome Instagram paid strategy?

An awesome Instagram paid strategy for herself, for her client. I'm a little confused.

I'll bet it's for— why don't we go with, with herself?

A paid strategy. So before you start asking for any money from anybody, I always say Instagram, I am not selling on Instagram. I am building relationships. I am all about building a community and making people feel inclusive. And anyone that follows me on Instagram knows that I am constantly talking about the community. And back to Bryan, like the humanity, bringing us all together, because I believe the more that we stay connected in a positive light, the happier this world will be. And so I'm not selling and trying to sell things on Instagram. Ultimately, ultimately, Yes, we're all here to make money doing what we love. But first and foremost, you have to build a community of people who fall in love with your products, your services, your gifts, whatever it is that you do so that they talk about you. I keep saying this, but it's so true. It really is.

Fantastic. Fantastic. Okay. So Wendy Gentry or Gentry, I'm sorry, Wendy. She had a question. What is the most common example What's an example of poor etiquette you see on Instagram?

Oh, this— I could go ranting for miles. Okay, it's the people that, that use bots to comment, that, that aren't really commenting because there are hashtags, there are popular hashtags that people use that generate from random bots that drop random comments or emojis that make you feel like someone— oh my goodness, someone just commented on Instagram and And it's just a bot. Um, people say this to me all the time when they say, oh my God, this really famous person just commented. And I'm like, yeah, I know who you're talking about. And that's because you use this hashtag. Trust me. So, um, I hate when people use other third-party apps. I want Instagram to be organic. You can pay people in India and China to like your photos, but you cannot pay for those real human comments in the post, right? So that's number one. Number 2 are the people that they're only on Instagram to grow a following. They only care about being Instagram famous and follow— they think that following equals success and it doesn't. It's the quality of those followers. And if you all promise me that you will nurture the followers every single one of them. Maybe you just send them, thank you so much for following me. Please let me know what post was it that you liked, or what was it about my post that brought you in and made you decide to give me a follow? Maybe that's the direct message you send them. The more you can know why people are following you, the more you can keep doing that, right?

I love that. Yeah, so the, the two-way communication and opening a photo up into becoming a conversation It's really what you're talking about. And it's using all the great things that Instagram gives us, like direct messages and Insta Story replies and the comments within photos. What I hear you saying is that the best parts of it aren't just around the photo. It's about the interaction with people. Am I, am I right?

Yeah. I mean, well, that's the, that's the juice. I mean, that's the endorphin. That's the drug that brings me back every single day. 5 times a day sometimes, so I don't miss any of these comments and questions. That's what makes you feel good. I mean, every one of us wants to feel loved and validated, right? I mean, that's what we're all looking for. And so when you have people like artists that actually draw me Periscoping live and create an Instagram post like this, to me, this makes me smile and this makes me feel proud and this makes me say— That's awesome. I'm doing something right and I'm changing this person's life. And so it's not always money first. It's time and patience. I know Bryan has been doing what he's doing for a long, long time. And, you know, people, there's no quick, you know, drug to success. You've got to show up, you've got to do the work, and you've got to be here for the long term. And as long as you have the mindset that you are literally here to help people with whatever their struggles are, giving them whatever it is that you can do to help solve that, your, your business will change. It really will.

I couldn't agree more. And so, Sue, just on a closing note, what is one question that we all didn't ask you that we should have?

Okay. So the link in your bio, let's talk about that. A lot of people, first of all, don't even have one. That's the whole point of Instagram is to drive traffic somewhere. A lot of people just have their website, which you can't track the clicks from Instagram. So having a UT— a UTM, like a designated link. We have 3 different Instagram accounts. I told you about Subi Zimmerman, the Instagram expert. The other one that everyone should go check out is SBZ Team. That's my team account. Rachel on the SBZ Team does all of that. But we have a unique UTM Bitly link so we can track our success from each account. And if you don't know how to set up a custom Bitly link, I've got you covered over on YouTube, how to set up a custom Bitly link on Instagram. Because you want to track your data, you need to look at your numbers, and you need to make sure that all the effort and time that you're putting into making The perfect Instagram post is actually getting some traction. Because if you're not getting traction, you need to kind of reevaluate what you're doing, right?

Amen. Amen. She just dropped a big content bomb on us. So I hope you guys pay attention to that. Final question from Angelica just came in. And I think it's worthy of asking before we sign off here. Angelica Whetstone, she said, is it wise to auto-post your Instagram content to Facebook or a Facebook page?

It is not. So I don't have any if this then that. A lot of people share it on Instagram and it's immediately over on Twitter. You can now, I think with the Instagram update, you can, when you share to Twitter, it does show as an actual image. In the past, it was just a link. If you use if this then that, you can get the visual from Instagram. So if you were gonna broadcast to amplify anything, if you felt like time was money and you just couldn't go back and do it, I would do that one. Although I've heard that you can now share from Instagram and it is an image. With that said, our strategy at the SBZ team is when I share something on Instagram and it's worthy of being shared on my Facebook page, Sue B Zimmerman Enterprise, then we share an image. That is Instagram-worthy. Typically a quote, or a quote that I took a photo of on a mug or a bus or something that pulls you in. Remember that, that emotional pull? There's all kinds of great— or it, or it was a mural on a wall and had quotes. So Rachel will take that visual from Instagram that I shared, but she'll have a completely different caption on Facebook. Because guess what? Our audiences are somewhat different and we don't want to look lazy. Like, let's just do what we did on Instagram and put it on Twitter and put it on Facebook. What's the point? No one's going to want to just come to Instagram. Make it, make it a place that people want to keep coming back to because it's exclusive. And that's what I like to teach.

Fantastic. That's a great place to end the show. Sue, why don't we go ahead and share the gift Uh, surprise gift that you guys wanted to share?

Thank you all for being here. I'm gonna just give a few shoutouts. I see a lot of faces, and Wendy and Lori, there's so many great people here on the Twitter. Uh, Jason, Angelica, Lisa, Lynn. I recognize so many of these people, Bryan. You and I circle the same people. It's so awesome.

And Lynn is even in, uh, she's in New Zealand right now, uh, calling. Yeah, so that's kind of cool.

And Katrina, I forget where she is, but she's in another country. So this is great. We have a global audience. We're trending. I love it all, you guys. So make sure you go to subiezimmerman.com /guide and get the guide. This is the guide that will set you up for your initial business success. Remember, everything I do is intentional with a business mindset. I want you to know that this guide is 13 pages long, and once you have consumed it and learned from it, let me know what your thoughts are and come over, come over and say hi on Instagram. Say the link.

Say the link one more time.

Sure. subiezimmerman.com/guide. G-U-I-D-E. And to everyone who is here, make sure that you come say hi @subiezimmerman on Instagram, @theinstagramexpert. You can— oh, here, I got something really fun for us, Bryan. You like fun.

I do. I love fun.

Yeah,

you guys,

this is gonna be good. So everyone, Bryan and I would love to see a photo of you guys like consuming this content. Maybe you're driving, maybe you're walking your kid, and if you were driving, do not do this. But like, take a photo of yourself consuming this podcast, and maybe you're sipping on tea or you're eating an Instagram cookie or something fun, and share it on Instagram. But make sure it's a really good photo. And Bryan is @bryan_kramer on Instagram, and I am @mentionus and use Bryan's hashtag #H2H. Like, then we can click into his hashtag hub and we can see all of you guys. My hashtag hub is #SueBMadeMeDoIt.

And yes, she did. Thank you so much, Sue. I really can't tell you how much I appreciate you jumping in Thank you so much. I think everybody knows where to find you at this point. We just shared the link out as well to the guide. So hopefully everybody— I would love for everyone to take advantage of that and share your— just, just like, like she said, take a picture and share that using the 2 hashtags she just talked about. So thank you guys again. We'll see you next week. We'll announce the guest here in just the next few days, and we will see Will you next week. Bye, everybody. Bye. see you soon. Thank you once again. Cheers.