Caroline Cavanagh talks to sleep expert Alan Levi about how exam stress effects sleep

Hi there, it's Caroline Cavanagh and I am here today with the very lovely Alan Levi. Now Alan is a personal trainer and you might be thinking, what on earth has personal training got to do with exam stress? Now I came across Alan because I know myself when you're training it puts your body under stress and if you're not sleeping well you can't get your body to perform well. So, one of the things that Alan has as part of his program is hormonal optimization. So, it's all about the chemistry that's inside your body, and when the chemistry is not performing as it should do, the output, the behaviors that you have, aren't going to be working to their optimum as well. So, that's why I really wanted to bring Alan into the group today to share his experience, his thoughts on sleep. Now, sleep is so intrinsic to good performance, whether it's physically and also mentally. So with our adolescents that are facing these exams, the chances are their sleeping behaviour is going to be diminishing, and it starts to get into that downward spiral. They sleep less, chemistry gets imbalanced, they sleep even less, and down, down, down you go. And possibly even for yourself, you're worrying about how your children are doing, and that's affecting your sleep as well. So Alan, tell us a little bit more about what is this hormonal optimization thing? How does body chemistry impact on sleep?

Well, that's a brilliant question. At the end of the day, it's one of the aspects of training that I think is sometimes so badly overlooked, because if you're getting inadequate sleep, if your hormones are disrupted, for example, you're producing too little dopamine, which is your kind of get up and go neurotransmitter, or acetylcholine, which is focus and drive. Or serotonin, which is your kind of feel-good, now I can relax hormone, things fall out of kilter. So you're never going to get the kind of ideal responses to training that you want. If, for example, you're sleeping 3 hours a night, you're going to have real problems with fat loss, for example, because you're going to be in a pro-inflammatory state. Your body's not going to be producing enough melatonin, which is the counterpoint to cortisol. It's all about balance, basically. All the hormones need to be balanced. You know, we talk about stress hormone as a negative. It's not. It's what gets us out of bed and gets us going and helps us in fight-or-flight situations. But more often than not, we get into a situation where there's hyperarousal, where we're always triggered. It's, you know, 9 o'clock at night, somebody said something nasty on Facebook, and suddenly you're like, oh, you know, and you can't sleep. So suddenly the whole system is tipped on its head. And yeah, sleep is critical. It is the most important recovery mechanism. You know, we talk about yoga, Pilates, tai chi, EFT. Yeah, sleep is the most important. If you're getting inadequate sleep, you're going to have real issues with everything— inflammation, disruptions to your thyroid, disruptions to stomach function. Everything will go out of kilter.

So they're all very physical things. How does it also impact— I mean, it sounds a bit like a stupid question because, you know, if you're tired, you don't think as clearly. But what is genuinely happening on that chemical level?

Another good question. There's the HPA axis, the hypothalamus, the pituitary gland, and the adrenals. When they get out of kilter, then obviously we've got lots of brain dysfunction. So not least of all, the neurotransmitters will fall out of sync. So it's all about once again being in balance, and the 2 that will probably suffer the most will be serotonin pools will reduce, so your ability to sleep will become impaired. And also, obviously, like you said, you're not getting up out of bed and just sort of saying, right, let's get on with the day. You're slamming your hand on the alarm clock 16 times, dragging yourself out of bed. So that tells me straight away that your dopamine levels are reduced and your acetylcholine, which is concentration, which obviously is going to be key for students, is going to be impaired as well. So all of them, you know, The basic take-home fact is that poor sleep, you know, when we talk about someone like Margaret Thatcher who, you know, was held up as the poster girl— She got Alzheimer's, didn't she? Really? And to be fair, now this is correlation rather than causation. My position would be, could that have been partially responsible for her Alzheimer's later on? Brain rusting, literally that is what it is, you know, buildup of amyloid plaque in the brain Lack of sleep, it would not surprise me if that was a key mitigating factor. So yeah, sleep, key. 8 to 9 hours a night, definitely.

And is that the same for, you know, if we're talking of teenagers, 16, 18, 20, do they need the same as someone of your age?

Mums and dads might hate me for saying this, but more forward-thinking schools in the States have a program for kids starting later. And there's research coming through that does suggest that Teenagers particularly, and they're all going to be applauding at this stage, will do better with lying in because they're—

Is that going to bed later and staying in later, or is it just more hours?

Yeah, actually as many hours, so we're still looking at 8 to 9 hours, going to bed later and waking up later because they just naturally are adjusting. It's part and parcel of the kind of changes in hormonal you know, all my normal adaptations at that age. So it's normal. So when you've got teenagers, oh, I can't go to sleep, you know, and, you know, for people of Caroline and my maturity, we're looking at—

So yourself!

Not maturity, but, you know, we're looking at something like getting to bed pretty early at 10 o'clock. Can you guys do that? But yeah, and then, you know, ideally being asleep by 10:30, teenagers later, won't do them any harm. But we're going to talk about sleep hygiene as well, because that doesn't mean, oh great, I'm on Facebook till 1 in the morning and, you know, playing PlayStation till midnight. That is not a productive segue into sleep, no.

So for us adults, we have some control over the stress in our lives, but obviously with the children, they have got this horizon of exams coming closer and closer, which is Causing these changes in the dopamine and serotonin and things like that. So we have to accept that this is a phase, and a child that may have been sleeping very well, now it's gone wrong. It will come back.

Yeah.

So we have to deal with this period of X amount of weeks until end of June-ish for most people. So if you notice that your child, or even if yourself, is starting to struggle with this, patterns are changing, What are the remedial factors, accepting that turning everything on its head at this time of their lives is not the right way to go? It's kind of like, if you're here, if you can get there, that's an improvement. If you're here, get a little bit further. Going from there to there, not the right time.

No, no. And having 2 kids of my own, I know that applies to negative distance. My daughter, once you get past 2, she's like, all right, already, I'm done, don't want any more. Um, I would say the— there are sort of— if we're looking at mind, body, and spirit, and you know that's very much where my training focuses. It's kind of like looking at the holistic— it's an overused word, but that is what I do look at—

approach.

It is— I'd say there are just 3 key factors that I would look at, and all the other stuff can just be adapted and implemented gradually. Because you're absolutely right, trying to chuck it all in, it's a nightmare. And also, you know, I think we touched on this earlier, I think Amy said in her last talk that that sort of thing is going to engender more stress. I completely agree. You know, if you start saying, right, another thing now, all we need to do is we're having a sleep hygiene—

They're going to be like, Yeah.

So what I would suggest is the first thing to really recognize— and you touched on brilliantly there— is that this is a passing phase. This is a— this is just a period, a transitional period in their life. So we've got 2 aspects. Depression is sadness and negative belief about things of the past. Anxiety is fear for the future. Both of them are— what, they're not mindful of the now. So we're not present. When you're not present, you're not going to be revising as effectively, you're not going to be engaging in your studies. So it's very much, what can we do right now, right this second, that you could do as we're talking that can remedy that issue? And that would be, in my opinion, the simplest thing is a gratitude diary.

Okay.

Very, very straightforward. You get a nice diary, don't get just something plain. You know, I've got a very ornate one, it kind of looks very, very Like ancient art. Every day you write down 10 things that were great, and it's that simple. Why? What? You know, for those amongst you a bit more woo-woo, you know that, you know, what my personal belief is, your thoughts create your reality. Um, some people might be just going, what? But on that, coming from maybe a neurolinguistic programming side or hypnosis side, what you're doing is having a reframe. So now you're thinking, oh my God, I've got all these things I've got to do, you know. Then you think, well, it's been a really productive day actually. I've got a lot of the work done. to do done. Actually, you know, Charlie said something really nice about me in the lecture. And it's a reframe. What does that do? It drops your cortisol level. So that's what this is all about.

Back to the chemicals.

Back to the chemicals. It will reduce that 20-25% in clinical studies. It's not bad for just writing down in a notebook 10 things that you're grateful for. And if you do want to, you know, and then you can expand on that, maybe what you would like in your life I can imagine some sort of teenager going, yeah, well, even just going through that thought process.

Yes, you know, something that I, I often do this when I'm brushing my teeth. Yeah, it's a 2-minute thing where you've got nothing else to do. Yeah, just, just the thought process. Is that as good, or does it need to be something tangible?

Something magic happens when you write it down. Something magic happens when you write it down, which is going to take me on to the next point, that people have kind of got that chattering monkey mind, which I think we all I think mine's a winner, actually.

Mine's a winner, please.

But one of the things that you'll find is that, yeah, it's when you put it on paper, it becomes reality. We have this thing where it works in our brain, it's an intangible, maybe it's an aesthetic, but when we've written it down, it's concrete. It seems the brain interprets it more as a real thing. But you're right, I would say, look, if writing it down isn't practical, I'd much rather somebody was doing it just brushing their teeth.

Yeah.

Tony Robbins said recently in a podcast, which I thought was great, you can't be stressed and grateful simultaneously. It's brake pedal accelerator. Okay, so as long as you are working on gratitude— and I know it seems like a really trite thing to say, but it's so important— if you're working on that and really, really trying to focus on that in your mind, that will reduce your cortisol. So if nothing else, just take that away and just think, right, if I can just be grateful for the 10 things around me today— and it doesn't have to be anything massive. People always People kind of go, oh, you know, but it's not like having a palace or a 10 grand payout. It could be that, you know, somebody just offered you a kindness, gave you their parking space, said, oh, you know, you were short on change in the shop, they gave you the extra money. You know, it's just start with the small things, the big things will come. That's definitely a sleep love vibe stuff.

So moving on to some of the more hygiene factors, you know, we hear a lot of things if you Google sleep hygiene, all sorts Don't be on your gizmo within an hour and don't watch TV and blah blah blah. However, if you've got a teenager saying, I've got to be on the laptop because I'm revising, how do we balance that out? What's the real impact of something like a screen with all that, whatever light it's called, going into the mind?

Blue light, you're absolutely right, and it is a tough one. There has to be a balance. There's got to be a time frame whereby you're safe. I'm putting down my work. You sit down and maybe dim the lights in the living room or in your bedroom if you're watching TV, and I would definitely recommend a comedy. Not drama, not factual, nothing related to work at all. Um, not news, just something that's funny, that's light, maybe a 20-minute show, whatever suits. Once again, drops cortisol. This is coming back to the biochemistry of the body. Everything to, you know, outside of supplementation, which we might get on to, is It is the key, you know, there's simple things that we can do every day to change our chemistry. You know, once again, Tony Robbins, Pretty Ideal Mind, it's all about getting in state. What you do physically, how you stand and sit, has a massive impact on your state. So I would say blue light has a very negative effect on sleep. Light will stop when you're asleep. If I shine a torch on your space of your foot, which would be a bit weird, would you— What are you doing in my bedroom? Yeah, that's all. No, it was spring water. No, but the point is, one of the things that comes out of that is it will trigger cortisol, okay? Because we're caving, we're caving with cell phones. That's as simple as it gets. We wake up, um, and then you might think, yeah, I'll get back to sleep. It's not that simple. You produce cortisol, you disrupt your melatonin cycle. Once again, body chemistry is, is Disruptive. Long-term, big problems. Like, you know, I think we were getting on to that in the pre-chat that we had, where you get into such a chronic state of stress that your ability to sleep is impaired, which means an increase in stress, which means an increase in your— So suddenly you're just thinking to yourself, oh my God, you know, hyperarousal, hypervigilance. So hyperarousal is more the kind of, I can't switch off. Hypervigilance is, is it time to get up yet? Is it time to get up yet? You know, it's that kind of— sometimes when you've got an early flight or something like that, you just, you know, constantly jerked awake. So I would say basic simple thing is away, lights out. If you've got a blackout blind— we had this discussion— blackout blind's ideal because it will just shut out all light. If you're thinking to yourself, I'm not renovating my house, Yeah. then just nightlights. So all the teenagers out there are going to look like Noel Coward in their dressing gowns and eye masks, but it's really recommended. It will reduce the amount of light that filters in.

So in terms of helping the teenagers, so yeah, I'm just trying to think, how can you communicate this to a teenager? It may be restructuring their revision. So if they need to do something on the computer, do that earlier in the evening. Then if they still want to do another hour or so, it's just looking at notes, reading books that doesn't have the light. But always end the day perhaps with some time that's well away from the screen, even if it's the TV. but make it a comedy. So get into nice box sets, Netflix, whatever it is, and get something that's going to change the chemistry. That's what we're on to, isn't it?

That's absolutely it, because it is, it is really that simple, is that, you know, whether it's anxiety, whether it is— I mean, there was a great quote from Dr. Robert Brown a few years ago, which he said, depression, Prozac— depression isn't a Prozac deficiency, which I think just sums it up. So all these things, you know, having to take chemicals to offset brain chemistry is not the answer. These things are latent in the body. They've built up to a critical state. We go into these, you know, kind of embrace it in a way. Your body— you're not anxious, you're not afraid, you're not, um, you know, all these things are your body's biochemistry saying, we're getting ready to do this, to be a success. The problem is we're mistaking it. We're saying this is fear. You know, you talk to any martial artist who's ever gone into the ring, you're not thinking to yourself, oh, this is going to be fun. You know, if somebody— look, your feet, your legs are shaking, all of this. But somebody who has ever done that will know that it's something to welcome because it's just telling you your body is ready, that you're in state. If you were there very blah later and go, oh, I'm up now, you'll get knocked out in 3 seconds. So the fact that you're feeling these sensations is not to be disparaged or to be, you know, you don't want to get necessarily rid of them. It's channeling them, focusing them into the correct portion of the day.

Celebrating.

Perfect. Yeah, perfect.

So we spoke a little bit about what the teenagers can do and the hygiene, so, and the kids have got some bonus ones all the parents hear about. I'm allowed to do this, I can get their legs there, I can sit in. Let's hit them a bit with the other side, mobile phones and social media. Putting that phone off of them and saying, right, I don't want Facebook, any of these, you know, Facebook's aging me, isn't it? They're all on Snapchat or Instagram or whatever it is now. It is again saying this is just for a finite period. This is very much what we were talking about with Amy, is you have got a goal, you want to do as well as you can in these exams, and to do that you might need to let go of something else for a period of time. Is the phone the best thing that they can let go of?

Yeah, that'll definitely be PlayStation, all of those sort of electronics. You know, I think that not going back to the blue light as well is a major disruptor. sleep. So just on that basis alone. Also, the thing is, if you're reading fiction, then obviously there's a big portion of the brain that is ingesting that as this is fiction.

Yeah.

But like I said to you, I never ever get— I never check Facebook, and I certainly never get into Facebook wars. And I only had one disagreement just a few weeks ago with somebody, and they were actually quite rude. And I remember getting into bed and thinking, you know, this guy's never met me, and I'm quite And something occurred to me. I always, always recommend— I never get into that sort of situation, so it's quite interesting to me that actually it didn't disrupt my sleep. Anybody who knows me knows I sleep quick, but, um, you know, still quite a tendency.

Cheeky.

You know, so there is a lot of negativity on social media. Um, certainly one of the things, you know, having young children myself and a young daughter, you do hear about, you know, cyberbullying and all of this sort of thing, and Somebody being vindictive or placing a malignant statement is disruptive at the very least, even if you've got very thick skin. I would avoid it. Once again, just something that's fictional, that, you know, maybe if you're somebody who's autistic, maybe drawing. So taking yourself away from things that are engaging that mindset. So many games as well, you know, computer games engage in the same kind of cognitive processes that revision are, so they might be more fun, but they're still—

It's something that I see with a lot of the teenagers that I work with. It's the constant comparison, and they go on social media like, oh well, I'm still revising, and there's that— it instills that panic. Oh well, they're doing more work than me, I'm not doing enough. Whereas what they might have achieved in 4 hours, you might have done in 2. And I think that's, again, it's another reason to say, okay, we're not taking your phone down, but this is the reason why. Because if you take that panic away, you can actually be more productive. It's positioning it in a way that, you know, it's not— I'm not punishing you, I'm helping you to help yourself.

Yeah, yeah.

Involving them in that decision. So we touched on this, um, a lot of people think about supplements. If I've got a problem, what pills can I put in? So are there particular things when the body's under stress, going back to the chemistry, that you become depleted in that perhaps taking Some sort of supplement may help you, again acknowledging that when the exams are over, you're going to stop, you review where you're at. So what would be something that may be worth looking at?

Number one by a country mile is magnesium. You know, no comparison with any other supplements.

What does magnesium do?

Magnesium is the mineral of calming, so it calms muscle tension, it calms the nervous system, it calms brain function, so it just increases things like serotonin and GABA pools. It calms not just the cognitive processes, but it also— what's very interesting is that when we're under stress, we excrete minerals. So for example, the more stress you're under, the more people get salt cravings. And you'll think, oh God, you know, I really need salt. That's usually indicative of somebody who's under a lot of adrenal dysfunction. So teenagers are kind of going, you know, salt. And what I would say is I wouldn't necessarily, um, be concerned about that. I would just make sure it's a good quality salt. So things like Celtic sea salt or Himalayan salt, because they need those minerals because they're obviously paid to be excreting them. The other thing is, so it will, it will boost that up. So we'll, you know, you are going to be excreting it through urine. And the beautiful counterpoint to magnesium is it's also, it's kind of slightly adaptogenic because It's getting complex. It's called the Krebs cycle, which is an energy production cycle in the body responsible for energy production. And so it flares that up, it enhances that, and it means that you will actually be more energetic in the morning and calmer in the evening. So, and it's also what will happen— and this is kind of going off a little bit on a tangent— but what will happen when people are under that stress is they will have more cravings for Yeah. And because it's— that's natural for bipolar, it's the body shouting for it. Yeah, and it's also because insulin is a kind of counterpoint to cortisol, so your body's saying, well, if I can just boost that up, then I'll push the cortisol down. But of course, the kind of sweets that you're having mean that there's a very quick release, and then the cortisol flows up again. So now you're on a seesaw of eating your body weight. And that— so one of the things that magnesium will do is it will help with those cravings, and it will also help with the sleep management. So you're actually— it's basically a sleeping device.

So can you just go into a health food shop and say, can I have some magnesium, please? No.

If only it was that easy, he said with a shameless plug for his own supplement. But the point is, actually, the truth is there are To be perfectly blunt with you, there are some supplements which you can get pretty much anywhere and they are of the same quality. So I'd say off the top of my head, vitamin C is one of them, ascorbic acid, it's not really that much difference. Um, things like glutamine, there are a variety that there's— I'd argue that there's not a big discrepancy. However, magnesium, there is. Um, what I mean by that is if you're looking at magnesium that's traditionally sold health food stores that I've told you the name of, they're magnesium oxide. Why is that a big deal? It's just really, really poorly absorbed into the body, so you'd have to take massive doses, which would then lead to diarrhea. And, um, it would be the case that just a little bit of magnesium of a good quality brand would be much more efficacious. So I would say for those who are thinking along those lines, I'll keep it simple actually before— sorry, I'm going to go back a little bit. To make it so you're not popping pills and you feel like, well, I don't know, that's not something I'm interested in. There's a much simpler way and probably just as effective or even more effective is transdermal therapy. So there's a lot of research now saying that stuff that comes into the skin bypasses the GI tract, is more effective. So I would say get home as part of your unwinding session, hot bath in Epsom salts.

Brilliant.

Come out, put a bit of magnesium oil On the back of your knees, just here, the carotid artery here, and the little notch just here. Reason being that that will actually get into the bloodstream a lot quicker. It's very thin layers of skin, so actually— so it's just that portion behind the patella.

Yeah.

And just rub that in, 10 sprays, and I would say sometimes that will just do the job on its own. The little caveat is, because I get this question a lot, is people will then text me and go, I thought that made you warm. Oh man, it really burns. That is an absolute telltale sign of magnesium deficiency. So obviously I'm not explaining— that would stop your sleep if you're lying there going— I'm on fire! What I recommend then is just put it on as long as you can tolerate and then just dab it off with a little bit of cotton wool. And that will change. I get clients who, 4 to 6 weeks, that starts to change. So take-home points would be Epsom salt bath, That's easy enough. I mean, even if you wanted to revise while you're doing that, why not? It wouldn't necessarily be a problem. Magnesium oil afterwards. And if you're looking for a good all-round magnesium, sort of across the board, that everybody can benefit from, magnesium glycinate, because it's very well tolerated.

Fantastic. So, you know, just summing this all up, what would be your top 3 tips if someone said, right, I've got a teenager, I know they're not sleeping, I'm not sleeping? What are 3 things that you think, right, if you put these 3 things in place, it will happen?

Top 3 things are knowing when to call it a day and start your hygiene, your sleep hygiene practices. So, you know, that you have— that does need to be like an alarm on the watch to tell you, right, now's the time to put it away and I'm done. Second one would be more the mind-body kind of aspect, which is gratitude diary. So 10 points on that. And what you could counterpoint that with is what I call a brain dump. Write down everything that's in your mind, because when you do that, it just comes from that point of the brain, and the mind now says, oh, we covered that. We don't need to— because the law is that, oh my God, I must remember that. Oh my God, I must remember that.

It's like having that shopping list going into the supermarket, isn't it? You write down on the big whiteboard in our kitchen, I don't need to remember that I need to buy olive oil.

Done. Exactly. Yeah. And then the third one would be increasing. Okay. So I would say put those in practice. And, you know, those would be 3 very, very constructive approaches that you can take, and that would, you know, would not be expensive and very easy to adapt and put to doctoring and implement very quickly.

Fantastic, thank you so much, Alan. I've learned a lot myself today as well. So Alan is based at the Body Lounge in Salisbury, but he's also a member of the Exam Stress 101 group, and I know already if you have some questions. If you have more questions, perhaps this is throwing up things that you want to ask specifically, pop some posts in the group or PM Alan directly, and he's very kindly offered to help any queries that come through. So I hope you found this valuable. I hope you're not too upset that we suggested it's okay for your teenagers to stay up a bit longer and sleep in.

It's Mondays now!

Exactly. But remembering this is the phase, this is all about helping you And helping your adolescent, your teenager, get through this phase, and then you can look again. It's a reset once the exams are over. So it's not about this has changed for the rest of life. You might decide that it makes such a difference it does become a pattern of life, but let's get through this phase now and make it the best that it can possibly be. So thank you very much for sharing this interview with us, and we look forward to talking to you again another time.

Thank you.

Bye-bye for now. Bye.