
Caroline Cavanagh explains imposter syndrome as a shadow self you can face and reframe. She offers practical tools: identify the stories behind your feelings, use mantras like "I'm enough," practice gratitude and self-care, and seek help when needed.
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This morning, in fact there's a few familiar faces that were here this morning, but I'm thinking that most of you, this is the first time you've come here to talk to— to hear me, yeah? Yeah. Cool, okay. So this morning's talk was all about anxiety and how you can change the relationship with anxiety so that rather than it leading you and telling you what you can and can't do, you give it leadership. So you can do— you can still be anxious, but anxiety is there to keep you safe and to help you grow. So that's what this morning was all about. This afternoon we're talking about something a bit more specific, imposter syndrome, which is like a specific form of anxiety. So I'm going to be dipping into a couple of the things from this morning. So for those of you that were here this morning, just call it a revision session. But for those of you that it's the first time, it means that you're not playing catch-up the whole time. There may well be questions that come out of this because this is a relatively new concept. Imposter syndrome is something that I didn't hear much about 5 years ago. Certainly 10 years ago, it was hardly a thing at all. Questions may come up. If you want to ask questions, I'm going to be hanging around at the end. Anyone that wants to come and talk to me one-to-one, I'm not going to shoot off at all. Or obviously, if you want to put your hand up, everyone else might go, oh, thank God they answered that— they asked that question because I was feeling exactly the same. For those of you lovely people who are on Teams, if you wish to answer a question— sorry, ask a question even— if you can send your question directly to Annika, she will collate all of those and then ask the question on your behalf at the end. So please don't feel left out. Your questions are just as valid. Cool, okay. Who has anxiety? Right, everyone get your hands up. We all have anxiety, yeah? As I just mentioned, anxiety's role is to keep you safe. It's what stops you driving through red traffic lights. It's what stops you from getting too close to the end of a cliff. Anxiety keeps you safe. But we often say, I have anxiety. It's like something that's beside you, that's outside of you. People say, I have depression. Outside of them. We never say, I have happiness. We say, I am happy. Happiness, positive feelings, are inside of ourselves. But we can take this one step further. We say, I have anxiety. I've never in the 12 or so years I've been a therapist never had someone say to me, I have fear. Why is that? Maybe because fear is a 4-lettered F word and it's not socially very acceptable. But by moving from fear to anxiety, it's taking us even further away from what is that real Primitive survival instinct, fear. So what does all of this have to do with imposter syndrome? Imposter syndrome still comes from fear. And as I mentioned, I didn't really hear imposter syndrome as a thing 5 years ago, 10 years ago. The first time I actually came across it, I didn't even know what it was. It was about 30 years ago, and I can remember the scenario as if it was yesterday. I was working for a big American chemical company, and it was a little bit after a really sad incident where someone called Suzy Lamplugh— she was an estate agent at the time— who disappeared. And there was this big reaction thereafter to keep females especially safe when they're out and about. So the American company that I worked with went, we're going to provide some health and safety for all of our female employees. So I was standing there in this massive great boardroom. It was one of these boardrooms that had this huge oval oak table that had been polished within an inch of its life so it was reflecting the ceiling. Big leather chairs, the carpet was dark blue, and there was a group of us standing at the top of the room under the projector with— A projector. the course leader in front of us. He was a black belt in jiu-jitsu, I think it was. But he was there because he worked with people who had been attacked and often raped. And he started his lecture with words that I will never forget. He said, without fail, without fail, Without fail, every single woman that I've interviewed that's been attacked or raped said that they knew that there was something wrong, but they thought they would be silly to turn around. Just sit with that for a minute. Without fail, they knew that there was something wrong, but they ignored it. Wow. His core message to all of us Is if you get that feeling that something is wrong, turn around and look. And it comes right the way back to where we started. We have this inbuilt instinct of survival. So if that radar is pinging and going, whoa, something's wrong, don't override it. Listen to it. And turn around and face and see what's coming up behind you. The course leader went on to say, when you do that, you're walking along, something weird is happening beside you, turn around and face it, because one of 3 things is going to happen. One, your radar's malfunctioning and the person behind you is completely friendly and they'll just walk on by. You might look a bit of a Muppet, But you're safe. 2, most attackers are looking for vulnerable people. You turn around and face that attacker, he's most likely to think, one, she's seen me, 2, she's a bit feisty, I'll go and find someone else, and will walk on by. Third option, you are going to be attacked. But isn't it better to be attacked when you can see what's coming than being grabbed from behind? Yeah? The key message that stuck with me and stays with me is if that radar is pinging that something is wrong, turn around and face it. And that is the principle of the approach that I now take with people who are struggling with the impostor syndrome. So let's now talk about what specifically is imposter syndrome. Largely, it is defined as people saying, I don't feel good enough. Yeah, I'm not worthy to be here. They have low self-esteem. Find me a person that doesn't have low self-esteem at some point, but we don't all have a syndrome. Imposter syndrome is becoming a label, an umbrella term that's being attached to a wide spectrum of things, a bit like depression. Depression can be attached to someone that's just having a bit of a rough time through to someone who has lost all hope and is about to take their life. That is one heck of a spectrum. But people all along that spectrum will say they have depression. And imposter syndrome is starting to go down that same path. Yes, just as there is clinical depression, absolutely, people do have imposter syndrome. It is a clinical situation. But there's a lot of people up this end of the spectrum that have just got low self-esteem, lacking confidence, they don't have a syndrome. And so what we're going to be doing today is helping you to understand in your specific situation, where are you on that spectrum? Do you need, or does that label actually apply to you? You have an imposter syndrome, some people do, but actually a relatively small amount. Or are you struggling a little bit with your self-confidence, your self-esteem? Everyone does at some point. But when you have those feelings, there are things that you can do to help move you away from them, and that's the focus of today. Learning the tips and techniques that allow you to recognize, I'm just feeling a lack of confidence. I don't have a syndrome. Everyone with me so far? Cool. It's quite lonely up here. Is everyone with me so far? Yes. Cool, thank you. So I prefer to call impostor syndrome the shadow self. I'd like to take credit for the term, but that wouldn't be fair. The term shadow self was first created by someone called Carl Jung. He was kicking around in the late 1800s, was an Austrian psychoanalyst, and he did some work with Sigmund Freud, and together the two of them created what we now know today as psychoanalysis. And they were the ones that created this term shadow self, and it was based on 2 principles. One, the shadow is always with you. You can't always see it, but your shadow is part of you. And 2, you only get to see the shadow when you shine a light on it. They're important concepts. Shadow is always with you, but you only get to see it when you shine a light on it. Carl and Sigmund also created a concept of duality, which is still, even though it's way over 100 years old now, is still a very commonly used therapeutic technique. So I'm not going to turn you all into psychoanalysts, but I'm going to help you understand what duality is all about, because it's actually very easy. So in a sec, I'm going to put a slide up on here. And I want you instinctively to give me the opposite to that word. Yeah? Cool. Go. Whoa! Easy, yeah? So duality— what's it all about? Everything has an opposite. But the principle of duality is you only know one because you've experienced the other. Yeah? You only know you're cold because you felt hot. You only know you're sad because you know how it feels to be happy. Yeah? Lots of nods. It's not difficult, is it? That's the world of duality, and that's the world we largely live in. This world of duality. Every front has its back. So now let's take it to the next step. You can't have both of them at the same time. One of the things we touched on this morning is what you focus on creates your reality. So if I focus on this lovely group of people over here, I can see all the smiley faces. Prompt smiley faces. Yes! I can see what you are wearing. I know what you are doing, but I've got no idea what Annika's doing behind me. I know she's there, but she's not part of my reality at the moment. Whereas if I turn around and face her, I can see her beautiful dress and her smiley face, but I've got no idea what that crowd's doing. You can't have both of them in place at the same time. You still with me? Yes. Cool. Excellent. Okay. So bringing this into the shadow self, we have our good selves and our bad selves. We have the things about ourselves that we like. Our strengths. But based on duality, that must mean we have bits about ourselves we don't like, our weaknesses. And then what we tend to do is detach them. And that's what then becomes the shadow self, that part of us that we like to put outside, but it's still attached. But we don't see it because we're constantly running away from that. Don't focus on your weaknesses. Don't look at those. But when you turn around and face it and you shine the light on it, you are taking back the power. And that's another theme for this morning. When you feel out of control, you feel highly anxious. When you get back in control, Anxiety reduces. So when you turn and face your weaknesses, you've got control. You can do something about them. I have no idea what Annika's doing. I can't do anything about it. Now I can. I know she's smiling. I can smile back. I'm in control. There's no point in me smiling now because I've got no idea what she's doing. No control. Yeah? Yeah. So, thank you. So, duality. What do we do about it? So the first thing to understand is that to move away from duality, we need to shine a light on the shadow. You need to turn round and look at what those negative thoughts are actually about. What are they actually saying? Because when you give them your attention, you are taking back control, and they are not controlling you. So we shine a light on our shadow selves. We shine a light on those negative thoughts so we can see what they actually are. But this is not a new concept. To know your enemy, you must become your enemy. Any ideas where that quote comes from? Anyone want to hazard a guess? No? Not surprised. I didn't know. It's a guy called Sun Tzu. Who was a Chinese warrior kicking around 1 century BC. I only know about it because my husband's an army officer, and they still teach Sun Tzu's practices in the military in Sandhurst today. The principle of this, to know your enemy, you must become your enemy, is that to know what your enemy's thinking, you need— or sorry, to be able to react to your enemy, you need to know what they're thinking. Shine the light on their thoughts, understand them, because then you can counteract, you can take a different approach. Make sense? Yes. Here's another one. This is a bit more modern day. Anyone want to hazard a guess who may have said that darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can? Any guesses? I'll take that as a no. Martin Luther King. Yeah? And it came from— he had a number of really high-quality speeches, but the principle behind this was you can't use violence to eradicate violence. You have to shine a light on the root of the violence and take a different approach. So let's come back to Carl Jung. He defined the best way to approach working with the shadow is to treat it as a sparring partner. Now, when you fight something, there is naturally a winner and a loser. We're back to— Duality. Duality. Yeah, back to duality. If we go all the way back to my boardroom scenario in that course, the principle being when there is a victim, there must therefore be an attacker. One wins, one loses. So the way that the shadow self can become this really negative influence is when you treat that as the attacker and you're running away from it. But because it's a shadow, it's still attached with you. And when you fight something, there is always a winner and a loser. So a better way, from a therapeutic approach, is to stop fighting and work with it. And that's what a sparring partner Actually does in a boxing ring. They're not there to beat you to a pulp. The sparring partner's role is to expose your weaknesses and to extend your strengths. That's what they're there to do. So what I propose is the way to address the shadow is to embrace it. Stop it from being something that's outside of you And bring it inside of you as something that's there to help you to expose your weaknesses, because when you know what they are, you can do something to address them. You are back in control. And what you've also done by bringing them inside and partnering with them is you've moved away from duality. Shadow is the teacher, the trainer, the guide that supports us in uncovering our true selves. Shadow isn't a problem to be solved or an enemy to be conquered, but a fertile field to be cultivated. This quote is from a lady called Debbie Ford. She is perceived to be the current leader In the imposter syndrome discussion. So she is very much endorsing what I'm proposing to you today. It's a teacher. The shadow is there to help you. It's a guide. It's not a problem to be solved or something to be conquered, but it's something to be cultivated. And that is quite a spin on where we started. Yeah, it's something that's there to attack you. So the $100 million question, how? First thing, turn and face it. You might not like what you see, but when you know what you're looking at, it gives you a control to then do something different if you don't like what you see. But what you're not seeing means you are completely disempowered from. Second thing you can do is to understand the story behind the feelings that you have got. Feelings are words that we give to chemical reactions going on in the body. So if you're feeling really up, really bouncy, really happy, you've got a lot of dopamine flowing around in your system. If you're feeling down, depressed, it means that your dopamine levels are very low. If you're in love, you've got oxytocin flowing around your system. If you're scared, you've got adrenaline floating around your system. But we give these labels to these chemical reactions because again we've got duality. You know you're happy, you know you're sad, the fact that you now know it's dopamine almost is irrelevant. You have those feelings because of the chemicals that are there. And we tell ourselves stories all of the time. There's one particular client of mine, That I always smile when I think of her. She had a particular issue, and she kept saying to me, I'm not going to open that can of worms, I'm not going to open that can of worms. The main therapeutic tool I use is hypnosis. So under hypnosis, I said to her, right, here's a can opener, do you want to open your can of worms? Okay. And she just started giggling. Okay, what do you notice? And she went, pardon my language, it's a— Pink bunny, and it's just bounced off. She had created this story in her head that the way she was feeling must be to do something terrible that had gone on in her past. But when she actually turned around and looked on it, it was the equivalent to her of a pink bunny, and she opened her eyes and felt completely different. That's a fairly extreme example, but I'm going to share with you a very personal example. I used to have a huge problem with guilt. I have a big brother. He's 10 years older than me, and at age 37, he had a massive stroke and became very, very disabled. My parents stuck their head in the sand, couldn't deal with it, so little sis stepped in to look after big brother. And for years, I felt a debilitating amount of guilt that I wasn't doing enough for him. Even though I had 2 young kids, working, I always felt I should be doing more for Mark, I should be doing more for Mark. And it got to the point where I ended up in hospital because I drained my energy so much in running away from this guilt. Do more, do more, you're not good enough. I ended up being seriously ill. On the recovery path from that, I was helped to look at this story. Why are you feeling so guilty? My husband, all my friends are saying, Caroline, you're doing loads. But no, my story was like, you're not good enough. You're not good enough. You're not doing enough. Be guilty. Bad person. And the story that came up for me was this memory that popped up. My mum was a real baker, and she used to make all these cookies. And she'd bake these cookies, put them on the windowsill in the kitchen, and said, Caroline, don't touch. They're for tea. She left the kitchen. Cookie Monster grabbed a handful, ran up the top to the garden. Nom, nom, nom. Yeah? But then felt really guilty because I'd been a naughty girl. I hadn't done what I knew I should be doing. And that guilt was still living with me 30 years later because the story was still running. So what I was helped to do was change the story. And that's the third thing we can do, is let go of the story. Let go of the feeling. And people often say, oh God, I hear that all the time, let go of the feeling. How? Well, you can do it in a number of ways. Firstly, become aware of the time frame. So I was a 4-year-old Cookie Monster. The story was in the past. It wasn't true now. I still eat cookies, I just ask for them before I nick them. Yeah? It's not the same story. The story has a different ending. And so by recognizing that the story is in the past often makes it irrelevant to now. Again, a theme from this morning: the only time frame you have control over Is the now. So the more you live in the now, the more you are dealing with reality. I was living in the past, and my guilt was keeping me trapped in the past. But as soon as I changed that story and recognized I'm not that little girl anymore, my present became very different. I still do as much as I can for my brother, But it's a balanced approach. I make sure I look after my husband and my kids and me as well as just him, and that keeps me healthy. Second thing you can do to let go is to forgive yourself. I could forgive little me, Cookie Monster. It was only cookies, the world hardly stopped spinning. We find it quite hard to forgive ourselves, but again, when you see the story, it makes it easier to do because the story of the past is not the story of the day. Forgive the person you were because it's not the person you are today. The next thing that you can do is to forgive others. And this can really be very challenging. But I was working with a gentleman recently who had very, very low self-esteem. His story was that as a child he had very emotionally detached parents. So even though he was loved, he didn't feel loved. He was never cuddled, he was never told, you're a good boy, I love you. So he'd grown up thinking he wasn't worthy of love. And the basis of the work that we did was to help him understand that his parents were doing the best job they knew how. And when we tracked it back, he recognized that his parents were also brought up by very Victorian parents where it was like children should be seen and not heard. Yeah. So it wasn't that his parents didn't love him. But his parents didn't have the skills to express that love in the way that he wanted. And in that recognition itself, he forgave his parents and recognized he was lovable. His story changed. And coming back to that boardroom situation, women that were being raped at Attacked. Again, it's quite a common approach now that those women are given the opportunity to go into the prisons and talk to the attackers and forgive them. I don't know if I could do that, in all honesty. But therapeutically, it works. And the reality is, those attackers, those men, 99 times out of 100— They're not going to change. Don't give a damn. They don't care. But they're not the ones feeling awful. The victims were. But when the victim says, I forgive you, they're releasing that anger. They're letting it go. They are forgiving the act and empowering themselves to move on. Thank you. It's a big deal, but when you forgive others, you are releasing yourselves from the story of the past, and that gives you the opportunity to write a new story. The next thing that you can do to help, again, release those feelings is to acknowledge that you have different resources now. Have you ever said, oh, if I knew then what I knew now? Yeah? Point is, you didn't. We have hindsight. We have the ability to look back in the past and go, gosh, if I knew then what I knew now. But the point is, you didn't know then, and then you made the best decisions you could with the resources you had at the time. So again, forgive yourselves. It may not have been a brilliant decision, but it was still the best you could do in the time. Now you have new resources enabling you to make better decisions, back in a place of more control. You are not the person you were before. You have different resources now. That gives you different options. And finally, In some situations, it's okay to get professional help, whether that's through your GP or whether you go to a therapist. The stigma of going into therapy is reducing, still got a way to go in my opinion, but if any one of us had, I don't know, a headache, you can self-medicate, you can take a paracetamol, or you can acknowledge, I've got a headache because I haven't drunk enough water today. and glug back a liter of water, you will feel better. No issue in that, no qualms. If you break your leg, there's no qualms in then going to an orthopedic surgeon and getting your leg pinned. No one thinks twice about it. Trauma is a mental injury. It's okay to go to a specialist to get help for that mental injury, because just like if you had a broken leg, and you carried on walking on it, it ain't gonna heal. So if you have got something that is quite acute, and that can be a whole range of things, acute can be something very specific like a trauma. Someone was speaking earlier about a very scary panic attack. That's a specific acute situation. It is easier to get help from a specialist to reduce that. Similarly, things can become very significant when they just compile. Little steps taken often takes you a long way from where you are. And so it is okay to seek professional help to get you back to a place where you feel in control. So 5 different ways that you can now let go of emotion and change your story. The next thing that you can do is to practice self-sympathy rather than self-judgment. When people are sitting opposite me in a therapeutic situation, I often listen to them and say to them, goodness, what you've just said about yourself, would you ever say that to your best friend? Oh my goodness, no! Why do you say it to yourself then? Typically, we are very, very harsh on ourselves, and we say things to ourselves, either out loud or internally, that we would never say to someone else, let alone a good friend. So start listening to your own internal dialogue, because your mind is— Your friend. Again, something we spoke about earlier is your mind can't tell the difference between reality and imagination. So if you are sitting there saying, I'm useless, I'm useless, I don't deserve to be here, your mind's going, okay, I believe it, so we're not worth being here, and it creates that feeling. Your self-talk creates your reality. So change what you say about yourself. Mantras are really powerful. So I've got 2 that I use quite regularly, and the one that I use most commonly is, this too shall pass. Yeah, this too shall pass. There's 3 rules about a good mantra. 1, it's got to be short. 2, it needs to be in the now. So if you're saying, this will, that's in the future, and your brain's going, yeah, But it ain't now. So it has to be in the present. And 3, it has to be believable, at least to you. This too shall pass. 4 words. It's short. It's current. It's in the now. And I believe it because nothing lasts forever. So when I fall in my own little personal dark holes, I remind myself, this too shall pass. By this evening, by tomorrow, by the end of the week, I'm not going to be feeling like this. And that's my little glimmer of hope that allows me to climb out the hole. One of my favorite ones, if someone hasn't got one of their own, is, I'm enough. It's true. You are always enough. You can always be a better version of yourselves. We can always grow, another theme from this morning. But right now, you are enough. And that is a mantra itself. You keep telling yourself that, you will start to believe it. I'm enough. Every belief that we have is because we've practiced it. Yeah. The most specific example of that being religions. Yeah. Some religions are saying you can't eat pork because they're dirty animals. That's a very strong belief that dictates a behavior. I don't support that religion. I enjoy a bacon butty. Our beliefs, our principles about what's right and wrong is because we've practiced them, we've indoctrinated them, we've internalized them. You can create new beliefs. You can eradicate ones by not practicing them anymore. By stop repeating negative things, that belief will reduce. By start repeating positive things, a new belief will emerge. Be in control of your self-talk. Does anyone like a kitten? Aww. And the last thing, the 5th thing, is to appreciate the beauty in the world. When— if you went out for a marathon run, the chances are you'd have an ice bath, you'd have a massage, you'd rest afterwards. You would do things to help recover the physical stress and strain that's on your body. But we don't do the same for our emotional self. So it's time to start practicing self-love, to look after yourself. And there's a number of ways that you can do this. The first, and the one that is my go-to, is to start practicing an attitude of gratitude. Gratitude is a phenomenally powerful emotion. And again, for those of you that are here this morning, and if you want to catch up on the recording, we did a little exercise about looking for blue things, looking for green things. What you focus on is what becomes your reality. If you train yourself to start looking for the positive things and appreciate them, you start to build a positive mindset. And the more you see that's positive, the more grateful you become, and the more grateful you become, The more positive you are, and you're in this wonderful upward spiral of positivity. And it's a very simple thing to train yourself to do. I used to call it the toothbrush exercise because in the 2 minutes when you're brushing your teeth, there isn't much else you can do. So in that 2 minutes, when you brush your teeth tonight, reflect on the day and pick out all of the things in that day that happened that were good. These are not the miracle wonderful things. Oh, I've got a wonderful husband, I've got 2 beautiful children. No, that day, it's that person that let me out the traffic jam this morning. I was grateful for that. Yeah, it's the fact that I managed to pour tea down my white linen trousers before I left the house this morning rather than once I got in the car. I'm grateful that if that was going to happen, it happened at a time that I could do something about it. The more you practice an attitude of gratitude, the more you start to look for things and notice them when they happen, and guess what happens? A little drop of dopamine comes in the system and changes that chemistry. You feel better. Put yourself in a situation of giving someone a gift. You're really, really proud of this gift. You know they're going to love it. And they take that gift and go, Oh, lovely, thanks. How do you feel? Pretty rubbish. Pretty rubbish, yeah? But if they turn around and go, wow, that's amazing, thank you! How do you feel then? Yeah, simple. When you express gratitude, not only do you feel good, you make the other person feel good too. What a wonderful way to make everyone feel better. There is a free downloadable resource on my website, the— give a link to it later— on practicing the attitude of gratitude. You've probably got it just by me explaining it, but if you want a bit of a backup, please download it and start practicing it. Attitude of gratitude is the first thing. Second thing is start being kind. To yourself. I know the things that for me make me feel better. They include spending time out in nature. They include exercise. They include meditation. I don't do all 3 every day, but I try and do at least one of them every day because I know by doing those it's helping me. Some people say, oh, the thing I love is lying in a hot bubble bath. I get in the bath and go, I'm supposed to feel wonderful, I'm clean now, why am I still here? We all have our different things that make ourselves feel good. So know what you do for you that makes you feel good and do more of it. It's not selfish to look after yourself. And again, this is a concept that I hear so much, especially from mums. It's like, I've got to look after everyone else. And you deplete and deplete and deplete and deplete because they're not looking after themselves. I can very confidently stand here and go, I am a massively selfish person. Because by looking after me and being the best version of me, I'm a better wife, I'm a better mum, I'm a better therapist, I'm a better friend, I'm a better sister. Who's losing? Mom. No one. No one. Yeah? So I'm happy to say I'm selfish because by looking after me everyone else gets the best version of me too. So what can you do for you that helps you be a better person? And bin that idea that it's selfish. It's not. And if you get right down to those base levels that I did when When my guilt put me on my back, literally in hospital, you go back to basics. Your body needs rest. It needs hydration. It needs food. Quality food. We're not talking McDonald's, Coca-Cola, and a packet of crisps every day. And if those basics are not in place, you don't have a very strong foundation to build on. You can't separate the physical body and the emotional body. The emotional body is energy. We get our energy from food and sleep. So make sure you look after those basics. Drink enough water, look after your health, get some good sleep. And again, if those 3 things are not in place, get some help from someone that can help you put them back in place. Insomnia is such a big source of mental health problems, but it can be resolved. So we've got attitude of gratitude, we've got Looking after yourself, being kind to yourself. And we got the kitten! Look for beauty. It's there. The more you look for the beauty, the more you will see it. Our last quote for the day: Turn the imposter into your friend and you'll have a best friend for I am going to take credit for that because it's a real strong belief of mine. When you turn that imposter, that shadow, into your friend by turning around and going, I know you're there, I know you're there to help me, come inside, work with me, and I've then got a best friend for life. I'm not wasting time running away from anything anymore. I've got someone helping me be the best version of me. I've got someone that's helping me see everything with a positive frame. Yeah, the negative's there, and I'll clock them sometimes, but I choose then to refocus on the positive. There's nothing special about me. I've just trained my mind to work in a different way, and every single one of you can do exactly the same. Thank you. The same thing. And when you do this, I genuinely believe it can lead to a competitive advantage for you as an individual and for you collectively as a company. When you're all able to then go, I'm not running away from this impostor, I don't have impostor syndrome, I have a best new mate who's going to help me be a stronger person. Who's going to help me put in all the place— in place all of the things that we've been speaking about today. You will be a phenomenal person.
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