435: How to Create High-Converting Webinars with Casey Zeman of EasyWebinar

This episode is proudly brought to you by Easy Webinar, an easy to use platform that makes high converting webinars a reality. Hey, Founder fam. Before we dive into another incredible conversation, I want to share something really special with you. Whether you're just joining us or you've been following us since the beginning, you've been a critical part of our community working to change entrepreneurial education. I started Founder almost a decade ago with the mission to provide entrepreneurs access to the world's greatest, greatest business leaders. Our goal was to break down barriers to entrepreneurial education and that's taken us on a journey from Founder Magazine to this podcast and beyond. And today marks the next step in that journey. Founder Plus. I'm proud to introduce you to Founder plus, which is an all access pass to each of our online courses and programs and their proven frameworks for success. It puts every strategy we've compiled from world class instructors at your fingertips, while connecting you to a global network of like minded entrepreneurs. Founder plus will take your business to the next level for today and tomorrow. So whether you've just joined our family or you've watched us grow from humble beginnings, we're really thrilled to have you join us in this exciting new phase of making the Founder brand and this company the world's best entrepreneurial community to launch and grow your business. So finally, before we get into today's episode, I'm inviting you to come back and check out founder plus and go to founder.com membership. I'm really excited guys. This is an incredible new evolution of entrepreneurial education and our mission is really to get as many of these founders that we interviewed to teach and also give back on the Founder plus platform and really go more in depth with the knowledge and the experiences and the lessons learned that they're sharing all in Founder Plus. So guys, please go check it out if you're enjoying these interviews. That's it from me. I hope you enjoy this episode. Now let's jump in.

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Hey Founder Fam. Welcome back to another Founder Podcast Today we're speaking with Casey Zman, the founder and CEO of Easy Webinar, a software platform that combines webinar technology with marketing strategy through automated and live webinars. Today we're really going to dig deep on the processes and learnings of developing a software platform, how you can utilize webinars for your business and really the fundamentals to creating a high performing webinar. Please welcome to the podcast Casey Zman. Hey founder fam. Before we jump into today's conversation, I'd love to take a minute to tell you about this episode Sponsor Sales Master AI We when iOS 14 hit, a lot of us didn't really know how to respond. And at founder, part of our response has been turning to trusted experts like SMAI to lead the way forward. SMAI has really helped us drive the performance of our cost per acquisition to really acquire customers on Facebook. So do you want your ads to work better then? If so, SalesMaster AI can help your business engage more buyers automatically using AI that places your ads in real time in front of audiences most likely to convert. So you can really increase the performance post iOS 15 and take the guesswork out of growth. Head to the link in our show notes to learn more now. Okay, now onto today's episode. So Casey, the first question that I ask everyone that comes on is how did you get your job AKA how did you find yourself doing the work you're doing today?

I was doing mortgages and before I was doing mortgages, I was an actor here in Los Angeles, right. And I hated being a broke actor. So, so I went and I started real estate and, and you know, it was one of those jobs that did the bills. I was able to buy a house and, and just make money. But then when the market crashed, this dates me, but back in like 2008, 2009, I had to like figure out how I was going to make more money. I went from a job where I was 250,000 a year to basically 15,000 the next year. So I almost went into foreclosure. It was a crazy time with me and my wife. And at that time I was like, I got to figure out how to bring leads in for this, this mortgage company that I'm still trying to hold on to. And so I started learning about online marketing at the time and, and it was like just so much stuff online. You know, there's so much spam and scam and just all the things and I was just trying to really phase find out what was real and what wasn't and that's when I realized one of my, one of my close, one of my friends actually is my wife's friend's husband was what they call an Internet marketer. I was like, what is that? And so I met up with this guy and his name is, his name is Chris Farrell. And at the time, you know, he was, he was doing this stuff and he was doing awesome ad. I was like, is this real? Can you, can you actually, you know, get leads online and build a business? He's like, yes. And so I, I decided I'm not going to do real estate anymore. And he said, the thing you need to figure out though is you need to focus on one thing and get extremely good at it. And so at the time that became YouTube and I basically became a video marketing consultant before video marketing consultants were even a thing. And I did work with Estee Lauder Dell and Harper Collins doing sort of video advertisement and things like that on YouTube. And I had this nagging thing in the back of my mind that I wanted to create a course online and sell it online, right? And so I, I took six months to build this massive YouTube course. I wrote a 250 page book on YouTube marketing. And, and by the time I was ready to launch it, no one was buying it. It was crickets. I couldn't get it off the ground until, you know, until my same friend said, what about, hey, Ben, you know, there's this platform called Go. You could use it and you could do these live streams and actually, you know, try to, try to, you know, build an audience and sell your stuff. And I said, are you sure about that? This seems a little iffy, but I tried it and I was terrible at it. But it was the very first way I was able, ever able to sell my stuff online. You know, I first started doing these live no pitch webinars where I would just do free stuff. And I built my email list and eventually people were dming me saying, casey, can I give something to buy? You know, you give me great value and I'm an over sharer. So I was just like vomiting stuff out to them. And eventually I was, I said, yes, here's my product. And they started to buy it. And then I started to form an actual proper sales webinar and I put a video on YouTube, inviting people into my webinars. And that actually did the trick. I was able to actually get people registering for webinars through YouTube and selling my YouTube course. So finally in, basically in 2012, 2013, I finally did what I used to make in real estate about $250,000 selling my YouTube course online. And it was all because of webinars. And that's what got me into the role of loving live video loving webinars. So you're asking me what my job is, I guess, or how I got my job. This is the evolution that I, that, that, that transpired for me to then at that point meet up with some developers who said, I said to them, I'd love to create something new. I want to create something that, that is like video, but it's not. And I had a friend of mine who said, you know Casey, there's another platform out here that they do this thing called automated webinars. And I said, automated webinars, that's interesting. And so I said, well, where are they at right now? What are they doing right now? And I learned about it and checked it out and I felt like I could do better, I could create a better product. So we found developers and I used my money, my YouTube money that I made and I paid for developers to build out a WordPress plugin that was an automated webinar. So software that was built that could be plugged right into your WordPress page. And at that point that's when things started to take off and we, we grew that, that product people were buying. We did, you know, a couple million dollar launches in like 2015 and, and at the time it was still, you know, a product that was a license based product. You just sell it outright. But I, I realized I wanted to create something that had, that was more a subscription model. And so at the time I started to pivot the product to being less YouTube and more. So we moved it from YouTube or less. I'm sorry, it was, we moved it from being a WordPress plugin to becoming its own SaaS platform software service. And then we added, you know, the subscription model and basically the rest is history. The product Easy Webinar was born at that point, so it was no longer Easy Webinar Plugin. That's what it used to be called. So and then we moved it into just Easy Webinar. And, and that's how the, that's how the, the product was created. So I guess I got my entrepreneur job from own, you know, self discoveries, desires of what I want out of life, the hopes to create a bit more value in the market. Obviously having a course is awesome and being able to have people learn my skill set, to be able to then apply it for themselves is great. But I also Wanted to have a tool as well. I wanted something like tangible tool. And that's why Easy Webinar is born at that point. So.

Yeah.

Wow, that answers the question.

Yeah, it does, it does a lot. I want to unpack. So talk to me around the early challenges with starting Easy Webinar.

It was all about development. It was all about the mvp, getting a product out there and hoping, you know, getting, getting something to the marketplace that was sellable and launching it and then the realization of, okay, we're making money, but this is not necessarily the longevity of, of, of a business that we want to create. So I went, you know, basically I went from being an Internet marketer to a business owner, right? And the early challenges were basically having to make that transition from a software that people were buying. But I was have. I was getting mostly sales through affiliate marketing to where I knew I wanted a subscription model, people paying on a monthly basis. And I didn't want to rely on affiliates so much. Right. I didn't want to rely on other people selling my product and them collecting 50%. It was working great, but I just felt like that model was going to collapse on me one day and I would be suffocated. So I chose to change the business model. And when we changed the business model, we made less money because we had to start fresh. We had to go from, you know, selling one time to now selling on a yearly basis to then selling on a monthly basis. And that took some time and it also took faith and it also required that I find people that can actually create the business that I wanted. Most of it was just me doing my thing with maybe one, one integrator, you know, while we were kind of building that up and then a handful of developers. So the challenges were scalability were completely stifled by the existing product that was there from the early stages. And we needed to build a scalable product, a scalable. Also a scalable, you know, a scalable revenue model as well, so that we could, you know, venture into this new world. But the problems were I had to deal with, you know, I had to deal with having to re. Completely build the product over again, you know, and again, when we started, we didn't have processes in place. We didn't have processes in place for like, here's the, here's what we're going to build out. You know, we, it's not like a planned thing. Like when we, when I was, when we just did this, I was like building out a WordPress plugin. I said, hey, developer. I just Want to do this? And they were like, okay, we'll see what we can do. And so it was just like this, you know, it was like tape and rubber bands. You know, we had this stuff put together. It was not, it was not like, you know, you plan it, you get it on Figma and you build it out after you had such a deep dive analysis of what you want, functionality wise, solution wise. And the early state challenges were that I didn't know what the hell I was doing and, and you know, and we just went with it and you know, you can, you can get far, you can get far with determination, grit and stamina, but at the end of the day, you have to have a process for being able to scale up. And that's, that's one of the biggest things I learned so early. Early challenges were, you know, we had to, we had to change the platform so many times, you know, and, and if I knew what I know now about creating an actual product or creating not, not a product, but a, but a software, you know, so much is in the planning phase that I would have put together and it would have been built in a much shorter period of time and it would have been something that can go through iterations at scale. That's one of the most important things with software is that we, we, we build it with, you know, with, with a, with a particular architecture and it may not get to where we want it to go, it may not be able to scale up. If we start getting customers, a flood of customers in, you're going to have that problem. And that's what we had early on and we had to really figure out that scalability factor.

And when you say we, who's we?

Well, the guys on my team, from the developers that, that matured. My CTO who matured with me to my integrator, who eventually became my COO while we were hiring, you know, bringing in other people, you know, marketing director, you know, a whole customer support or customer success team, you know, you know, not only the marketing director, but then marketing implementers and the marketing team, from content writers to copywriters, to add people to all sorts of team members that we rolled in as we started to grow. And that's what I mean by we. We just had to sort of, at first it was just like three or four of me, four of us, four guys and M2 developers. And that's how we ran it for several years, you know, until, until about 2018. To be honest with you. 2018 is really when things started to change and we added more people, we changed the business model and we started to grow 30% year over year, which was, which was pretty cool.

What was the change?

So many little things, but it was process, it was the correct revenue model, it was product market fit, it was messaging, it was branding and it was knowing that we could solve so many people's problems. We had done it before, but really putting it out there and letting everybody know about it. And so it was, it was all the little things that you adjust and find. But, but moreover, I guess if you're wondering what was the thing that allowed it to happen was you have to invest in your business at one, at some point you have to bring in people because you can't do it yourself. And you have to, they have to understand and love and respect and go along with your mission and feel so pumped about it that they're going to, you know, help you reach your mission and goal. And I guess that's the fundamental thing about it is that, you know, all the little things were, because added the right people in to be able to get here and you know, many days it was like, are we going to get there? It was a slow process and you know, you're hoping that you, you put faith in people and meanwhile you're, you're spending more money. You're not necessarily making the money yet. Right. But you know, if you, if you feel the energy in from your team and everybody's motivated and working towards that same goal, eventually you start to see little, little bits of, of the results of, of actually doing the work and getting a solid team. So that's what we just started seeing, that the team started to actually, you know, really get the results we were looking for.

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And you said Something interesting. You said that in 2018 you hit product market fit. I find that very interesting because you said before that you did like million dollar launches and all sorts of stuff with webinar software, I assume the plugin, easy webinar plugin. So yeah, what, what, what, what can people learn from that experience?

I think, you know, when it was, when it was just that, that the, the plug in and it was just me building the website, you know, I, I'm, I'm a good mark, I'm a decent marketer and I'm, I'm decent, I'm a decent writer. I, I write, you know, from a very authentic perspective and I write from my perspective. And so my audience was me, my audience was basically course creators who needed to scale and grow and sell their products, you know, at scale leveraging the power of you know, a high impact presentation, you know, where you know the actions where you know what people are doing and you know, while they're watching your, your, your presentation and you can act accordingly based on that. But yeah, back in the day, you know, we didn't really have all that um, we, we, we had a full market form because we had the notifications and we had a platform that could be integrated with WordPress. But you know, I, again as I said I was doing most of the work and, and you know, I think that we can, with that, that can, you can make it happen with just you, you know, for a while you can make it happen with just you, but you're going to hit roadblocks. You know, when, when we, when I say we did million dollar launch, we had the product on ClickBank and you know, 50% of that went straight to affiliates. Right. But, but we started to make way more than that when we actually started to, well first we didn't, as I said, we, we actually scaled back because our net profit was more. Because now it was all coming into offer. Right. But then it took time to build that back up. But then the growth started kicking in on a much, on a much higher level. So your product is going to change, even your ideal client is going to change. So I think that's one of the things that changed as I was focusing on Internet marketers at the time and you know, and that was the people that I was really talking to. And then eventually we started to change the branding and who we were attracting to talk to more of the marketers, but also the course creators and the marketers who maybe work with the course creators. So we started to kind of tweak things and change things around. And then we of course changed our model to a subscription based model, which also helped us to really hit home. But it is when we did lean in, into the course creator, not so much the Internet marketer, but the course creator, we saw much more momentum. And I think that's what we, what happened in 2018 love to dive deep.

On webinars because obviously you've seen so many. You know, what works, you know, what sells, what do you believe? Some of the key fundamentals of a high converting webinar.

What you need to have a webinar that converts is first you need an exuberant person to do the actual presentation. You have to have a level of engagement that makes it feel energetic and semi personal and connected. You have to grab someone's attention within the first five seconds. I always kind of say that like, you know, when I was a kid, I went to the musical Cats, you know, where they come. And in the musical Cats, you've probably seen the cat. The. Well, cats. Right. Well, when I went to the Broadway show of Cats, all the cat characters came out before the show started. They all, all the feline people came out and they started walking around, crawling around the audience and like licking their paw and sitting in people's laps. I was like, what the hell is going on? Here is the show started. What's happening? The show had not started. They built up this, this anticipation of the show that kept me my ass in the seat because, wow, I'm already seeing what's going to happen. I'm excited right before it starts. So in a webinar, it's kind of the same process. You know, you really want to build up an expectation, expectation and anticipation of what's going to happen in the webinar. Maybe what results they're going to be able to achieve. You know, what, what aha. Moments they're going to have, you know, and that can, that really can be in the first moment of the webinar, you know, and a lot of people, they don't necessarily do that. So I think you have to have strong energy to, to jump in so and, and create that expectation of what's going to happen in the webinar. You know, you have to, you have to have a good story because I think storytelling is, is at the, at the, is the most pinnacle thing. And how, what I kind of say is, you know, story that you're telling in a webinar, you know, a lot of times people will stumble and they'll say, you know, I was featured in Ink and entrepreneur and da da da and da da, da, da, da. And that's there to go to. That's their lead in when. The storytelling should be your story, but it should relate to your audience, so it should relate to what your audience's experiences are. And you always have to go call back your audience, like, does this make sense? Tell me if you've ever dealt with this, you know, in your life, have you ever felt like this, put your hand up or say me or put a 1 in the chat, or, you know, there's. There's every. With every point of storytelling you're giving you, you need to have an affirmation from your audience, because the more they affirm, the more you push forward. I. I hate when I'm on a webinar and I say, you guys with you, you know, does that resonate with you? And no one does anything. No one does anything. And you're like, well, that just took the wind out of my sails. But probably because they're not to your story like your story. The cringe factor of your story is not cringy enough to where it relates to them. So it has to be. You have to have enough cringe for them to say, oh, my God, yes, I have been there. And when you do that, you keep people there. So when you're transitioning from storytelling, you also start to transition from the problem. Your problem, their problem, though, you're positioning it as yours, but it's actually theirs. And then that's where you start to go through that process and start to reveal the solution. And the solution is your product, your services, whatever. A lot of times in a webinar, the best thing to do is, if you're a course creator, take your framework of your five pillars in your framework and have those five pillars as the solution to the biggest pains that you've ever experienced or that your audience ever experienced, right? So you teach them. You get into the content after you tell the story and how, you're going to solve the problem, and you're going to teach them five things, and each one of those things is each pillar in your course or program. By the end, you're like, you know, you give them a taste of it. You give the highlighted, you know, the overarching version of it. Just the, you know, the big part of it. And then you say, you know, this is the what and the why and the how is inside the course. So once you come in, you're going to learn every bit of these steps on a much deeper level. And we're going to hold your hand while we do it. And if you could do that in a really good flow and also answer questions and objections and stay on until you answer all the questions and objections, you're going to make money. Some of my best webinars were 4 hour long QAs question answers where I was tired and exhausted and I had my Jew fro out to hear because I was rubbing my head so much. I was just looking at the audience and talking to what their pain points were and their questions were. And I'd say, hey, thank you so much, Jane, for that question. Let me go in and answer that. And oftentimes once I answered it, I say, who's in? Who's already bought, who's come in. You know, people will raise their hand and then what I'll also do, and I've done this before with bigger webinars like this, like that, longer webinars is I'll show my screen of all the people that are purchasing. At the end I'll show so many like, okay, who's in? Okay, I see, wait a minute, I'm going to go to the screen here and I pull, I literally, I just pull up my Gmail and I filter out all the people that have bought, you know, just filter out the, the, you know, the credit card, you know, number or top, you know, the name at the top and all you'll get all your buyers, right? And you're just going through and say, thanks, Tricia, thanks, Rebecca, thanks, Sam, thanks Frodrich, thanks, you know, whatever. And you go through the list and you get people excited and more people start to buy, you know, so you have this social sort of snowball effect that also can occur. And you know, that's really, again, that's some of the things I used to do in my early days. Like, that's like the energy, the vibrance in a live webinar is something that it's hard to replicate. But then when you get good at it, you can take that and turn it into an automated version of that. You know, once you find a webinar that has, you know, where you get buyers and you're aware of what it does, then you try now to replicate that entire experience in an automated version of it. Conversions aren't as good in an automated webinar necessarily, although we've had companies like, like Teachable, who's actually told us that they had higher conversions from their easy webinar automated webinars than their actual sales webinar, which means that their live webinars needed to be amped up. They just didn't do the job enough on those live webinars. Also, maybe they had tech experience problems. You know, automated webinars. The cool thing about those is that lower tech issues, you can craft your experience, you know, in a. And take time to build, to craft it and measure the data, see who's coming in, see who's, how many people are buying, how many people aren't buying, where are they falling off? You know, like there's a lot more that you can measure. Very first thing you want to do is, is get good at, at selling on a live webinar. You know, maybe do a, I kind of call it a webinar sprint, you know, five, do five to 10 live webinars and see where your data is and then take that, take that session and then turn it into an automated webinar session. But you're going to have to make sure that, you know, that you can't replicate the experience completely. You're going to have to take out any conversation where you're talking about time, you know, can you still have a Q and A? Well, what you should do is, is just look at all your past live sessions and, and, and write down all those Q&As and say here's a question that we oftentimes get da, da, da, da da. And you answer those, you answer like 5 to 10, maybe 20 you know, FAQs that you commonly get, you know, frequently asked questions. And you, and you, you know, and you set it up that way to, to then sell off of your automated webinar. And then of course you segment. I mean, I could go on, Nathan, you know, I could talk about this forever. So I don't want to bore everybody with like, you know, here, here's the, you know, the, the, the download on, on, on webinar funnels. But like, you know, segmentation is, is half the battle too. Once you know what people's actions are. Send emails out for the people that registered that no showed that clicked a buy now button or a call to action button that. But didn't buy. You know, there are these opportunities to meet people where their experience, you know, meet them at their experience where they are in their, in their, in their, you know, buyer's journey, basically.

Hey guys, hope you're loving today's episode with Casey. It's proudly brought to you and sponsored by Easy Webinar at founder. We've actually been using Easy Webinar for over three years and because it's the most Stable platform in the market to run webinars to sell and profit at scale. It integrates well with our tech stack, allows us to customize the automated webinar experience. And I'd recommend it to any company or individual that sells SaaS products, service based businesses, or online courses and education. To learn more about easy webinar and how you can use it to scale your business and head to the link in the show notes. All right, let's get back to it.

When it comes to companies, what kinds of companies can use webinars live or automated? There's obviously course creators. What about SaaS? What about service providers? What about E Commerce?

Yeah, I'd love to hear a hundred percent.

Yeah, you know, what we've discovered with webinars is that it's not just selling your stuff or marketing your stuff or you know, building your email list. You can keep your customers happy with webinars. So there's, we have, you know, so, so people will use our platform for customer success. So any like a SaaS company who really wants to leverage a better way to communicate with their customers and, or create a process around touch points with their, with their, with their customers and build a better relationship, that's one of the, probably one of the best things you could do with webinars. You know, larger companies that don't have a problem with acquisition may have a problem with churn and they need something that will, that will be something that their customer can anchor in on. You know, so maybe in the onboarding experience of a customer, they're going through some, some webinar training or, or show up to some live webinars where they can talk to the customer success team and feel connected and engaged and feel like they're being supported in such a massive way. And so, you know, yeah, they could be used for service providers. We have people that, you know, like, you know, we have a lot of coaches, consultants, service providers who will use them to basically qualify their, their potential clients and then get them on a call. You know, so we see that a lot that they, they'll use a high impact, pithy, so not long, 15, 20 minute webinar experience that then just drives them to a book a call, you know, get on with a trusted advisor, get on, let's, let's do a. And they're basically sales calls. So we see that a lot. And of course, you know, yes, course creators can take advantage of it, but basically anyone who needs to build a relationship online should be having webinars somewhere in their funnel somewhere. Whether it's on the front end as an acquisition cycle or on the back end as a customer retention platform. Webinars can be used to, to basically run the gamut of relationship building with your audience.

And what are the biggest mistakes you see people make with webinars?

You know, I'd say that one of the biggest things I see is that they, they do one webinar and they, they, they, they, they feel like they look like an idiot, and then they stop. That's the. Probably one of the biggest things I see. People that always tell me, I don't know, webinars aren't going to work in my industry or, you know, you know, I, every time I get on with a webinar, I feel like I'm completely naked and it damages my brand. But then it helps. And I mean, frankly, I think that's all bullshit because, you know, we, you know, this is, this is. We got so used to Covid. So used to people doing live streams out of their homes and they're, you know, like their TV personalities, you know, having to literally, you know, do a live stream while their kid runs naked behind them. You know, I think people are very forgiving, but I think one of the biggest problems I see with webinars is that people stop. People start and then they stop right away. They feel like it won't work in their business. They don't take the time to, to test out and allow themselves to fail, allow themselves to have tech issues, allow themselves to kind of, you know, potentially look foolish. As, you know, the only person that finds them foolish is themselves. Like, people are very forgiving because we're all doing this, you know, we're all attempting to do it. So I'd say that's, that's one of the biggest things around webinars, you know, or maybe they'll, they'll not, they'll hide themselves. You know, I think there's something to be said about putting yourself in front of the camera and talking directly to your audience. You don't always need a presentation. You know, the other things that I think stop people from doing webinars is they think the tech is going to be overwhelming. It's too many processes, too many things to think about. I have to create a whole presentation to be able to run a webinar. But to be honest with you, all you need to do is tell a story as to why your software, why your product works to solve a problem, you know, and you don't need a presentation. I think a lot of people think they have so much prep that they need to do. You know, they have to be perfect at it. And it's, it's so not true. I had a, one of our, one of my clients and coaching clients. She, her best webinar was, was literally her just talking straight into her audience. It was unscripted, it was, it was real. It's authentic and people resonated with it and that's why they bought. And oftentimes that's all it takes. People just don't see that webinars can be a full stack marketing tool. As an example, with our tool, you can stream your live stream to Facebook Live and YouTube Live at the same time, similar to Zoom. But the power of that is now you can build a social audience. All you have to do is go live and you in front of the camera and talk about how you can solve a problem. You know, it doesn't have to be long, could be 5 minutes, 10 minutes. And there are ways to leverage quote unquote. You know, webinars are an old name, right? But if you break down what a webinar is, it's just when you're using it like this, it's like a live stream experience, right? Where you have a chance to build a relationship and connection with your audience. When you're doing it as an automated webinar, it's the same kind of thing. But maybe you have something more prepared, right? So, you know, we find that people say the tech is a problem. I see, you know, the, the, the gurus doing webinars and they can do that because they have the audience. And that's, that's crap because when I started out, I only had 30. I was, I had like, first I had like maybe two people showing up to my live webinar per week. And then eventually I got, you know, people like 30 people showing up. And then eventually I got actually good at selling. And I realized that for me, to actually make money selling a course, I needed 30 people on a webinar every single week. Just 30. Because I could sell three of those people into my $1,000 course and at the end of the month, that's 12 grand. And that's what I started doing. Basically. I started to say, I started realizing, first off, I knew that a good webinar should convert at 10%, right? And you just have to keep doing it and doing it and doing it and doing it and you'll get, and you'll get better with it. And I was able to do it. Sometimes I would, I would maybe have 30 people on, you know and sell two. But sometimes I would have you know, 20 people on and sell three, you know, so it like all balanced out and eventually I got more and more people showing up to my webinar so I think that's a misconception. People think you have to have a massive audience to be successful with webinars as well and it's just not true.

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And a couple more questions and we have to work towards wrapping up because as we said we could talk about webinars all day. I want to get the real gold from you. Tell me what is the highest converting webinar you've ever seen and why?

Some of the best high converting webinars, I'm talking about webinars that probably have a 20, 30% conversion oftentimes will show how someone can be successful. Like it will literally turn around and show this is how you're going to be successful. Let me flip the screen and show you exactly what's gonna make you successful, right? And let me take you through the process. So they show a process and then they show a process and then said, by the way, that process is all done for you already. You know, like everything you need, this is what you need to be successful. I just showed you the exact process so you can go out and do it yourself. But I've actually done it all for you in this program, right? And I've seen people do massive, massive numbers, especially with, you know, a warm audience who they've communicated to before. Let's say they've had several touch points with that audience. They've, they, they've done a lot of value giving, value giving, value giving, value giving already, you know, over and over again. And then finally when they open up something like a cart and it's maybe a mid ticket or high ticket even, you know, because you can, you have more, there's more margin when you do that, you know, and there's, there's a limited time that you're gonna offer that, that said product. You know, people start to buy but you don't. It's not necessarily straight out of one webinar that I've seen the best conversions. I've seen it where, you know, it's more about the audience that you've built up and how you've communicated to them, how you've given them value to where by the time they're showing up for, you know, a webinar that you, they, they know is going to be a sales webinar because you've positioned it, this is going to be, I'm going to show you something and there's an opportunity to finally get something. You know, if you're doing that and you're setting up that expectation, this is, you're going to be able to spend, you know, you're going to be able to have this result, right? This transformational result, right? And that you do forward pacing to show them what exactly their life is going to be when they get these results, you know, but you've done the job already of, of, of getting them indoctrinated into, into you, into what you're doing. By the time you have a sale, you, you say, I'm going to do this where I'm going to make an offer to you. It's going to be life changing by the time you do that. If you can, if you can architect that in the right way and really show them, you know, what, what the process is for them to go through to be able to have results. But then say, I'm going to do it all for you. It's all done for you. You'll get huge, huge stuff. So I guess I'm telling you more of a roadmap. But I've seen webinars like that that have performed 20, 30% close, maybe even 40% close on the front end because they did such a good job of creating so much value already ahead of time, you know, it's hard to, to do traffic and then suddenly people buy, you know, and I don't normally see that. What I see is maybe I see an affiliate who promotes this person, but the affiliate does a great job of, of seeding the value of this person. And the affiliates already bringing in warm, a warm audience of buyers so that by the time those warm audience of buyers gets on your webinar where you are, you know, talking about a solution to, you know, their big problem, they're going to, they're going to take action. So that's when I see the highest converting webinars, you know, with warm traffic.

Basically, you know, and what's optimal length.

I think for how long however long it takes to get your point across and people aren't dropping off. If people are dropping off because you're boring, then shore up your webinar. But if people are dropping off because you're boring, you're just not doing that. You're not doing the job. You know what I mean? I've had a two hour webinar where most people stayed, but that's because they were so invested in sticking around, they didn't want to go. They, it was, there was a reason for them to stay. I'm going to say an hour to, an hour to, to 90 minutes is, is an appropriate time for a webinar. Right? But it depends on what you want to do. If you're doing a book, a call, you know, you're getting people on a, on a sales call at some point, you know, you only maybe need to do a 10, 15 minute webinar. You know, just something high impact short that really touches on the, the pain and the, and solves the problem of that pain. I had a, a real estate. He, he's a, he was a financial advisor and he wanted to find IBM employees to be able to help them with their 401k plan. I said, great, let's set up a, let's set up a webinar. He wanted to create an automated webinar. So, so we went through the process of creating an automated webinar. He had not gone live ever, by the way. He just wanted to do an automated webinar right out of the gate. And we said, all right, this is what the webinar needs to look like. Let's get it done. And he said, how long should it be? I said, well, let's just see what it looks like when you start to build it out and have all the pieces that you want. And the webinar turned out to be about 40 minutes. And I said, you know, when I went through it to audit it, I said, a lot can be taken out here. You know, you're repeating yourself. So let's, let's short back. By the time we edited it, it was 20 minutes long. And we sent Facebook traffic through that funnel. And once we did that, within the first week of driving traffic, he had five to six people ready to get first off booked into his calendar. And the second call that he did was with somebody who had a 401k plan, an IBM employee with a 401k plan of $2 million. And he then became that person's financial advisor for that 2 million. And then he also sold them into a 5K. He has this like, he had this other sort of indicator sort of platform and software and he was able to get them to buy that as well. So you know, when you ask me the question of how long does the webinar have to be? It depends on the outcome and it depends on, you know, where it's, where it is in your mark, in your, in your whole, you know, marketing funnel, basically in your marketing stack. And so I also think it depends on how long do you need to keep the audiences interest in place while at the same time making sure you're touching on all the things that they need to hear to be a buyer. Right. And for me, I, I don't know if that has a time. It's time sensitive. I think I just tell, I'll tell you. The 60 to 90 minute is, is probably the average that we see. Yep. When you sell on a webinar, have.

To work through the hot seat round rapid fire questions.

Okay, okay.

First one is when is work fulfilling?

Work is always fulfilling. You know, I mean sometimes I have to get up at 6am to do a meeting with developers overseas, but you know, that's, at least I get to do that, you know, you know, waking up in the morning and not having anything to do would be just a shit show. I think work is always fulfilling because it's the journey that we're focused on, you know, trying to get to where we need to get to.

What's something you've learned today that I.

Get excited about talking about webinars and I don't really teach this stuff anymore, but I do dig it. So thank you for pulling that out of me. I appreciate it.

If you could have dinner with any entrepreneur, dead or alive, who would it be and why?

It would be like Ryan Reynolds or the Rock. I honestly, I love those guys. I love what they're doing, the legacy they're building. And they're not just one thing. It's cool.

So finally, where's the best place people can find out more about yourself, your work and Easy Webinar?

Well, you can find out more about my personal life, I guess. Casey zieman on Instagram easy webinar.com to learn more about Easy Webinar. And you know, I'm on the, I'm on all the socials of Facebook, LinkedIn, et cetera, et cetera. But you know, I share a lot of my own story, passions, family on Instagram, Czman.

For everyone listening, watching, viewing easy webinars, the software that we use at Founder to do all of our free masterclasses. It's an incredible software. It's the go to for us and.

I can't recommend it enough.

So Casey's been amazing.

He's supported us a lot behind the scenes.

So thank you so much, Casey. This was an absolute pleasure, man.

It was awesome for me. Nathan, thank you so much.

Hey guys, I hope you enjoyed this interview. As you might already know, our mission at Founder is to help tens of millions of people every single week with our content either start or grow their business. Which is exactly why we're partnering with world class founders such as Daymond John, Alexa von Tobel, Grena Van Riel and so many more to teach crucial skills such as negotiation, finance and E commerce and so much more. So if you'd like to get access to these free exclusive trainings, please go to founder.com free. These are 100%. We go super in depth on teaching a particular topic and I know that you're going to love them if you enjoy this podcast. So just go to founder.com free. All right, guys, I'll see you in the next episode.