E18: Getting Over People Pleasing with Casey Zeman

Welcome to Trust Yourself, the podcast where we learn that trust is earned and not given. Even with yourself, we get to hear from all sorts of people sharing exactly how they learned to trust their intuition. They share stories of what happens when they did trust it and when they didn't. I'm really glad you're here. Stick around.

I was talking to James Wedmore, like, a couple days ago, and he was, you know, he said, like, the minute I started, like, growing is like, I. When I stopped trying to be liked so much. And I thought it was really a great. That was great revelation because, like, I am obsessed with being liked.

All right, people, you are in for a treat. We have an amazing interview with my friend Casey Zieman. He is an actor, a singer, a podcast host, but perhaps he's best well known for being the founder of Easy Webinar, a way to automate your growth in your business. I am a fan of webinars. I use webinars in my business, and I'm also a fan and friend of Casey. You know, pretty much every time we get together, we lose track of time, so therefore, you know, the conversation's good. This is going to be a great show. If you are having trouble with people pleasing, and as I mentioned later in the episode, Casey is a phenomenal human being, has two adopted boys from Haiti, an amazing wife, and you'll hear him share his struggles and how he moves through his difficulty with people pleasing and, as he said, his obsession with being liked. So if you consider yourself a recovering people pleaser or you desire to be a recovering people pleaser, you're going to enjoy this episode.

I think it stems from my childhood of, like, this desire to be liked. And so therefore, like, I hold. I get there's so much that comes with not being able to show up. Like, I wasn't able to do that podcast. Like, that. Like, I put so much emphasis on it. Instead of like, yeah, instead of being able to say, I'm gonna come back to it, or, you know, like. And so being that desire to be liked is also, like, why you can't fire someone who's not working out for you, whether why you can't. You know, like, it can stem in all sorts of ways. I'm not going to say get out of a relationship that I want to be in, because that's not the case for me.

I want to just interject, what was the topic of my therapy session three hours ago?

What was it? Oh, really? Yes.

Letting go of what other people think. Yeah. 100%, literally.

Yeah. That's, I mean, when he said that, I thought it was really interesting. Cause like I'm. Yeah, that's my. I'm obsessed. I have that same. I have that fundamentally. It's, it's a big problem for me. And so I have to just like stop giving a fuck. Is giving.

Yeah, well, that's so. So for me, I'm very proud of this. My therapist is proud to. I was like, if I can go back and live with my mother as a 41 year old self actualized person who is one of the most sensitive, empathic people on the planet, gets paid to be that way.

Right?

Yeah.

And if I can say my own energy, even when she's suffering, I think I broke through the matrix. And she was like, yeah. And I felt like that for me, it's not 100% foolproof, but I am able to do it. And it has powerful healing effects obviously on her and on our relationship. And I feel and felt like if I could do that with her, especially even while living with her.

Yeah.

That I can kind of do that anywhere. I have other. I have other like totem moments in my life. Like walking on fire, for instance.

Yeah.

But it's interesting that you're talking about that because what I was talking about with my therapist today is in the span of one week, two women that I was am following on social media. I don't technically follow anyone, but I check people out.

Yeah.

Both of them had this topic in the span of one week in conjunction with pictures of themselves naked on Instagram.

Wow.

And two separate areas. Like they don't know each other. Like I just really kind of found out who they were. Amazing, powerful women. I love them both. And they both kind of had similar things about like, I wouldn't have post this before because I would have cared about what other people thought, but I, I like this. This feels good, right? So like leave your hate at home and thanks for the encouragement. And the one woman, she said, you know, she kind of went through these two, like shedding of skins of like what other people thought. And the first time was in an ayahuasca ceremony. She shed it and her Instagram doubled and so did her income. And I didn't, I didn't actually take a look at your numbers recently, but I would say she's similar to where you are, which makes me think with both of you, if you both were shedding this skin, what that doubling would look like and how fantastic that would be. I would support both of you doubling. I love quantum shifts. I Am a fan of. Of. Squared. Squared. Squared. Squared.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It really. I did. I do. I mean, it's, it all that, that being able to scale your stuff up, scale your business up. I feel like it comes from a lot of internal stuff that you have to deal with, you know? Yeah. It's like, it's mindset, it's, it's letting go. It's. And letting go comes to live from, you know, being the only person that's working in your business versus hiring 10 to 15 people to do the work and being able to let go on perfection and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. All those things when you talk about.

That, it's so true. It's so true. And we're both living it while teaching it at the same time. That my body is like, I'm on the roller coaster as he's talking, feeling it all at once. But this is a really good dovetail into when and how did you learn to trust your intuition and then tell us a time when you didn't trust it and what happened and a time when you did trust it in what happened. And what I would love for us is maybe take it out of order. We're just talking about people pleasing.

Yeah.

So if you could tell us about maybe a specific time where you didn't listen and what the results were, if you felt like that was a good place to start for you.

You know, I, I. And this goes back to the, as I said, the pleasing, pleasing people. I had, I had. I went to a voice teacher at one point because I'm a singer as well. So I went to my voice teacher one time and I was like, telling her about my business because she's like, also, like, big in business and stuff like that, and she's. It was, it was pretty cool. But so she and I were talking and I was explaining things to her and she was like, you know, it sounds like there's somebody on your team that's not serving you right now. Like, this person on your team is not serving you. Like, you keep talking about that person and not letting that person go. And my advice to you is let that person go, even if you're only slightly sure or have feelings around that you should do something about it. And I didn't let that person go for a long, long time. And because of that, I noticed that my business started to get affected more. Like I was having to make excuses up for him. I was having to juggle him around. I was having to do all sorts of stuff to try to get him into where I thought he would, would fit in when probably the most most important thing to do at the time was to get rid of him. So we, we did, we ended up getting rid of him. But before all that happened, you know, I, we had lost probably so much of momentum in the business growth before I like got rid of this person. But I've done that a few times. I will hold somebody around longer than then their value dictates. And sometimes I feel that internal thing and I start to say, should I ignore it? Because I've also been also I've dealt with this need for perfection too and realizing that there is no need. There's never going to be perfection and there's never going to be. Yes, I want someone to live up to a level of expectation I have, but, but they're never going to be perfect. And so I always feel like I have to balance this idea of what I perceive as this perfection or need to get to this point and balance like how someone is going to grow to get there. Right. And I think that it falls back on me more than the other person. But that intuition that I have, it really, it's a, it's a self reflection because like if I have an intuition about someone not working out, I have to, I have to look at two things. Is it the person or is it the process? And if it's the process, that's, that's me. Right. But if they can't do the process after I give them the process, that's the person. And so like my instincts, it's so hard because like if you're always, I can't just always rely on, on my instincts because I can't sometimes tell my instincts are coming at it from the right perspective or not. And so I need to almost add this layer of, of, of, of, of sort of process to it. Right. That if I have someone go through certain steps and they still can't meet those criteria. So I have to kind of put myself in a little box, put my instincts around something in a little box that helps me to now make decisions quicker and faster. Yeah. Part instinct, but also part structure. Right. And if I can do that, then I can make decisions quicker. But there have been many moments in my life, I mean, when, you know, I, I didn't follow my instincts or moments where I did follow my instincts and it worked out as well.

Yeah, yeah. I want to get to one of those examples. But first I want to say thank you for sharing all of that even just on a friend level. I appreciate the vulnerability and we're on a podcast, so.

Yeah.

So thank you for that. It's so refreshing. You know, that's why the statement is higher, slow fire, fast. But the conclusion that you just came to is actually the formula that works. Because there is a way to definitively always know if your gut is right. However, the people pleasing will always get in the way.

Yeah.

And this is like literally what I spend my life exploring and solving for us. Because the. As you described, the problem is that triggers from the past are using the exact same receptors in our body that our intuition uses to tell us that something's wrong.

Right.

And so this is. I just want to share one more sentence and say this is why it's so important. Because if you go to rewire yourself in attachment from anxious of like I need to please to more secure, in the end they're going to tell you you need to trust your intuition. Then if you go to try to trust your intuition and you're not wired from, you're not rewired from anxious to secure, then you'll never be able to get back to that trust.

Right.

And that's why I was born to.

Help people in the catch 22. Yeah.

Yeah. You got. You literally have a solution right there. You do. It's amazing. I always like to see it from, you know, your problem is because of your huge heart, which is the reason why I and so many other people like you and watch you and learn from you. Right. And allow you into our space to help us. Right, Right. That's also like why it's a double edged sword, you know?

Yeah.

But I do feel like with your heart, you. It's this kind of thing where as time goes on, you're gonna be able to see that intuition quicker and faster. Like you said, you're already moving faster. You know, trust, trust takes time to develop. And so you're tuning in with both and over time you're gonna be like, oh, I kind of knew that, but I wanted to be safely sure. And then the next time it'll be shaved by like another day or another month, you know, until where you're gonna be like spidey sense. Everything says great except this Princess and the pea. There's one little thing and I know in the end it's gonna come back and bite us.

Yeah. And what's interesting. Yeah. And I think you're right. It's like every. I mean I have to go through so many like evolutions of experience to be able to even tell what that may Be, you know, like. So I. That's my thing is like, I'm. I consistently am going through. If I see writing on the wall, I have to figure out how am I going to prevent it, you know, and again, a lot of this stuff comes down to, you know, I'm realizing that it's a lot of internal things that I have to sort of fix, whether internally from, you know, my own. My own dealings with obviously people pleasing and like, you know, I get really hyped. Like, if we hire a new person, I get super hyped about that person. Like, person's gonna change my life, change the world. Oh, she's gonna just do wonders for my business. It's gonna be so good. And then the realization that I. They weren't maybe supported enough or didn't have the right clarity and things like, you know, and knew the directive. And so that falls back on me as a leader. Right. And so. So it is. It is interesting because I. I'm in this space where I like to give. I want to give ownership and control because I'm. That was one thing I was. I was working on for a long time. Right.

I was perfectionism. You can't give over control. Of course. Yeah.

And I was holding that in so much perf. I was just like, no, no, no, I'm going to do the work. I'm going to do the work. And so I have been in practice of giving everybody else the work instead of me. Yeah. And that is so difficult because you. That. That requires. If you're doing that, and then they have to create a level of output that allows you to be chill and like, you know, and relax and settle.

Because I care about you. Can we modify that statement to say it's getting easier?

Yeah. When. What you mean?

Because it's not difficult for everybody all the time. And it's actually the natural flow.

Yeah. Oh, you mean, like, giving up control and like, letting other people do has gotten. Wait, wait. Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, my team has grown, you know, a lot since I started. So it has gotten tremendously a lot easier, you know, having kids and being distracted by like, especially Covid and stuff like that. Where. And you know, when I went through the adoption process with our two sons, you know, I was back and forth to Haiti like 20 times, like, a lot. Right.

Yeah.

And. And in all that, you had your.

Daughter too, so you weren't just too.

Oh, yeah. Well, we had our daughter while the process was happening, so my wife would be with her while I was going to see the Boys in Haiti. And there was. I was so distracted at that time that I couldn't even. I wasn't able to. I wasn't there. I wasn't able to be in the business so much. So I had to. I had to rely on my teammates and members to basically hold things up. And it was because I was forced into this. You know, I had to do it right. Like, you know, I talk to people that don't have kids and they, you know, they're not going through some of these things and, you know, they're working so many hours, so many tireless hours. And I think partially because they're still in that perfective state, they just want to make sure it's done right and they haven't started to hire out. When I force myself, we basically forced myself to, by making some decisions like this, where we're going to sort of, you know, take these big actions of having kids and starting this process and visiting. I had to get things in place to be able to even step away. And it wasn't perfect, not near perfect at all. At all. At all. But it was the stepping stone for creating that ability to sort of step back and give ownership and responsibilities and growth metrics to my team at that point. Right. And I mean, it was really great. They really held. Held things up. You know, we didn't. Maybe we did. I don't know. I don't think we grew like, we grew maybe a little bit during that time, but we didn't lose anything either. And I think that you have to be able to sort of do that. You have to sort of make the transition. If you are the sole person and you're generating this right, and you bring a team in, you know, that it might not shoot up this way like everybody assumes, oh, I'm going to bring this person on, then, boom, massive growth. But. But oftentimes there has to be this change, this, this, you know, passing. Passing the ball, so to speak, and then this may be here, maybe here, right. Before it goes up. Right. And so there's. So I had to deal with that, that, those. That. That sort of time period that, that learning, you know, that adjusting, that transitioning for myself, that giving up control a lot to where we grew. And I still didn't have to necessarily be on as much. Right. So I get to be now in a position more where I'm fueling my team, giving them energy and trying to continue to give them energy and things like that. And so anyway, you're right.

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You're a successful entrepreneur with an amazing team and a wife and two boys adopted and a daughter in la doing all the things with a huge heart, teaching other people how to make teams and step away from their business so that they can live balanced lives.

Yeah.

And if you can do this, Casey, if we can see Casey do it, it doesn't matter. And don't think, well, I'm living on grandma's couch and don't have any kids. And so Casey's different than me. And that's the thing. It's like energetically. I've seen that everybody's blocks have the same weight to them. No matter how they show up in other people's eyes, it goes back to that. Like people pleasing. No matter if someone else thinks your burden is light, it's heavy to you. And if you can see us do it, then you can do it. And I don't believe it's actually success in life in general. If you're not able to take care of yourself, if you're not able to be present with your family, if you're so busy that you can't do those things. And that is the internal process that needs to change. It's not the external. So thank you for illustrating all of that.

Yeah, well, I think that I, before all of this, you know, I was a screwed up 20 year old. I, I always felt victimized. You know, I, I tell a story one time where I, I, I broke into my friend's house when I was a kid and like, because he had this, this is a weird story, but he had this like tanning cream and, and I, I remember going into like his house. I don't know why, I was like 10 or something, but I drove up to his house, you know, knocked on the door, he wasn't there. I opened the door, walked in, went upstairs to his bathroom. I knew he kept his tanning cream. And I was like putting this tanning cream on and I, I swear, like the thought process was my, my friend, he, he looks, he's like, he's. Everybody sees him, but I feel like no one sees me. And I felt like this, like the tanning cream was a symbol for like, like, you know, like removing the innov invisibility that I had. Yeah, I know it's really weird, but what was really interesting is that his mom came home with his two dog, their two daughters. This is such an incriminating story. And I had to go hide in, in a bedroom with this like streak of tanning cream stuff on my face as a 10 year old. And, and I was hiding in like the daughter's room. And the daughters came in and they dropped something down and they went into their mom's room and they were getting ready for a birthday party that my friend was having later that I was invited to. And so the awkwardness of the moment, I was like, this is, what am I doing? What am I doing at 10 years old? I was like, what am I doing? What are you doing? And so they were in the other room. It was like literally across the hall. So here's the mom's room, the girl's room. The bathroom was right here. I was here. I ran into the girls room. Yeah. Anyway, they went into this room.

Wow.

I came out and the steps downstairs was right here. So I came out and I was looking right at them. I was frozen. They didn't see me. Which goes back to my. Am I invisible? Right. They couldn't see me at all. They didn't notice that I was there. And I just slowly walked down the steps and out the front door and back on my bike. And so no one noticed. And that kind of led this concept that it created this notion in my mind that I, that my actions didn't really matter because no one saw me anyway. And I think when you put emphasis on that, it can create you. You, you can become destructive, very destructive for yourself, for others. And I've done, I did other things in my 20s that I wasn't proud of, which led me to wanting to do more things that I was proud of. So everything I do now in my goal is to work at, at gaining a. I need, I want to gain a bigger perspective of life. Not just my own, because when I look at my own, that's when I go deep and into my problems and my anxieties and that invisibility problem. So to be able to go against that, I start now. I made a mission to try to do things that created a good ripple effect in life instead of a negative ripple effect. So what does that mean? That means doing. Being in service. You know, when we, my wife and I, were going through the adoption process, it wasn't like it was not on my radar. It was on my wife's radar. Right? She's always. It was her thing that she's always wanted to do. She had more. She had adopted, you know, family members and things like that. So when we adopted from Haiti, we. We. I was the one that went. And I. I followed her because I had my heart open to it, because I knew that I wanted to do things that were scary and do things that would change my perspective, right. And there was inherent levels of what I perceived as good in this. And so going to Haiti was a game changer in terms of creating a different perspective in life and understanding that there's bigger things than me. And so I still go into my own little bubble of anxiety and blah, blah, blah. But I also try to actively rise out of that and understand that, that. That you have to stretch what you're potentially good at or what you. You have to stretch what you can do, right? If you don't think you can have kids, you know, or, you know that, then you have the kids, and then, you know, can you have a fourth kid, a fifth kid? The anxiety is, no, we can't. How am I going to do this? What are the pieces and foundations that I need? But eventually, the thing is, we stretch into those things. Like, we can stretch into whatever we need to stretch into. And I think that oftentimes when we're not stretched and we're just sat on front of a couch watching tv, we are not challenged to be able to see the threshold that we can of our potential growth. And because there is no threshold, it just needs. There's no challenge to get to the next level. Next level. Next. Next level. And so doing what I did has. Was a great challenge to be able to hit certain thresholds so that I could say, okay, I did that, and now it helps. It's helped to understand that. It's helped to give me a different perspective so that I'm not so negative. I'm not so, you know, just like, all about me, me, me and being. Being able to not be all about me, me, me has helped me to sort of move quicker with things. Right. Not sit so much or harbor so much or hold so much in, you know, wow. If that makes sense.

You just really dove deep into something that I don't think I had a full understanding of. I understood that there were people in your position. I've, I've helped many of them who. And I was like, I was formulating the sentences and you spoke them from my brain about you're sitting on the couch and there's no external challenge or stimulus or something that's causing you to rise to the occasion. And that is actually the problem. And so therefore of course the solution is from within. And it's so fascinating that the majority of people living in, you know, let's just say our country, that's the state that they would need to internalize and agitate themselves to.

I mean it's the whole, you know, you have to live uncomfortably to be able to. Now where uncomfortable is, is not so uncomfortable. You know, there's new thresholds of uncomfortability. So.

Yeah.

And that's challenging you as a person. And eventually, you know, things that you saw as walls don't become. They're not walls anymore because, because you've, you're completely. Your perspective is different. I mean 20 years ago my perspective was very different than it is now. And that's. And because I've had to. Because there were walls where I didn't. Where now there aren't.

A hurdle to a five year old is not a hurdle to a 20 year old. Yeah, I love that. I really love that. Can you tell us about a time? Because I love how we're like you hit, you hit the nail on the head. You use your logic and boundaries and structure and your intuition and your trust takes time to build and you feel it out. Can you tell us about a time where you feel like you knew something intuition wise, you just knew it with no logic and you followed it maybe with the absence of logic. And what happened?

I think that I had an intuition about my wife maybe and, and I followed it without logic.

So what that means special someone, if you're listening.

Yeah. So, you know, my, my wife was like, you know, like she, like I. She was not necessarily like the typical type of person that I would normally date, but she had this energy, the smile, this energy that I thought was like just so unique and different and captivating and I. And you know, there were like, people were like, you know, like are you sure you're going to you want to date her and think, you know, like there were. There was like, you know, like the external, like things that were like, lending itself to like, you know, trying to break up, us being together. But the, but with all that, like, I, I kept. I kept on with like, no, this is the one. And it was like this intuition because it was like she didn't, it didn't. She didn't necessarily check off boxes, you know. You know, should a person check off boxes? I don't know. I guess that's. That's there. There's something to be said about that. Yeah. So. So. So anyway, like, I followed that and I think I followed it blindly in, in the sense that like, you know, we had a breakup and I, I worked super hard to get her back and you know, and then, you know, said like, you know, planned. Planned a wedding, got married, you know, like that I would say instinctually, that decision being an in, you know, that I led that from. From instinct. And, you know, yes, that was, you know, you use your instincts around love more than you would say, you know, make a good and bad category and like, you know, really go like, okay, she snores or okay, he, you know, he has this problem or he's great. You know, you don't make a good. I mean, some people do, but. But I think intuitively for especially around love, there has to be some more intuition that we've. What we use when we're. When we're seeking love. Right. And finding somebody. And in she, again, she was. That. That's what was very interesting is like, she. She wasn't what I normally would. The box that I would normally. I would have normally fit in. So it was really interesting that I was just leading with my heart, with my, you know, my decision to try to win her and try to, you know, have her as my life partner. And so, so I'd say that's probably the biggest one where I follow that intuition. I think.

I think all the romances in the room are all sighing. And I've never met her, but I know you and I, you have, you have talked about her and you can tell even when you know one half, you can feel the gold between two people when, when. When the person speaks about. About them and family and to. To do what you all have done and continue to do, right? And to be like, I didn't have this dream of going to Haiti and adopting boys, but like, she. And I followed her blindly in it and I knew it was the right path for me. I mean, that Is.

Yeah, there's a lot of those.

Solid.

Yeah, absolutely.

I imagine, I can only imagine there's a lot of them.

I mean, it's the same thing as like, you know, like I, you know, the reason I even started to, you know, make money in a career was, you know, for her. Not. She never asked for and she never, she's not the type of person that cares about stuff like that at all. But I know, I knew I wanted to be able to support her. So, you know, I got a house and during hard times, you know, she was, she's just always been the motivator. Like, she's, she's like, you can do anything, you know, you can make this happen. Right? She talks me down, she builds me up, you know, and, and one day. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, we, and we're complete. I mean, we're a lot different.

I could tell. I've seen some of the videos, like where she's like training you and stuff.

Oh, yeah. God.

Training people. And I'm just like, oh, this is great.

Yeah, yeah, she's, she's hardcore because like, she'll be like, come on, dude, let's get. Now you're, now you're pissing me off. What are you, what are you doing? What are you doing with your back? And so like, that's how she did. I mean, she's, she's, she's, she's just, you know, she's, she's awesome. Like, she's hardcore. She's got the biggest heart in the world though. And, and I've known her through this evolution of being this like, you know, this like fun spirited softy to being this like really strong woman who's also like, you know, dealing with her internal battles and, and being a good mother and her in the perfectionist thing that she's always had, trying to shed that and just being able to juggle, having to try to juggle all these things. Like, like we, like, I do. So we do it basically together because, you know, we, we don't have support here. We don't have like family who is here to like, help us with the kids. So we're basically raising the kids on our own. And, and we even, we don't have a nanny. We don't have like, you know, anybody at the moment. Our two boys finally went back to school, you know, but before then they were, they were doing school in this house.

You talk a lot about instinct. You're using the word instinct a lot. What was it a process? Did somebody say something to You, I kind of got the feeling of what you shared a little bit before, it wasn't through your parents, but I don't know what was the road to trusting your instinct or knowing that it was a thing that you needed to strongly pay attention to.

Okay. Yeah. You know, actually, now that I think about, there's a lot of moments where I trust in my instinct. As an example, like, I bought, when I bought my first house, my dad was like, do not buy that house. Don't buy that house. You know, it's. First off, it's, you know, you can. $900,000 you're going to pay for a house. Like, so I remember the first that. That was. There were those moments where I had to trust my own instincts as like I'm, you know, like. Cause we all rely on our parents, you know, we all think of to go back to our parents and say, tell me what I should be doing. Because you told me what I should be doing for, for a long time in my life. So, you know, naturally we have that, that feeling. And so I had that feeling too, for such a long time. But it's when I started doing things that, you know, where maybe my parents didn't necessarily agree with me. They, you know, they, they, they weren't quite sure what, you know, what the benefit was. And so, so I had to start trusting that I, I knew what I was doing, that I felt like I could, I'm going to do this. I'm going to make these decisions. So the road was, yeah, being able to. Now, you know, I think one at one big milestone is where you, you know, where, you know, if you are trying to get out of like a pattern, like I, you know, I always went back to my mom or my dad, and that only got me so far. Right. And they are going to work within a framework that works for them, that they've worked in. Right. But to be able to, for you to change where you're going, you have to work in an entirely different framework. And so it starts to, you start. Have. You have to start listening to people who are saying, you know, trust yourself, trust your instincts, which then will lead you to finally making big scary decisions without your parents saying, you know, you should or shouldn't do this. Now when someone says, like, if my family or, you know, even starting a business, people are like, what is this thing you're doing? I don't understand what you're doing. Is it like, you know, what, what, what is this thing? Like? They like, when I was starting my business and People didn't even understand what I was up to. They're like, that's never going to take off and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, it's like people that it's. If it's unfamiliar and they haven't done the research and they haven't gone deep and they're not you, then they don't actually know. Right. You know, so in that regard, I've had many moments where I've had to. I've trusted my instincts and said, you know what? Screw that, I'm going to go and build an online business. Even though people are like, I don't even know what that is and I don't even understand what are you selling? You selling? Is this mlm? Is this network marketing? Yeah, okay, whatever. So like all those things, like, that's the type of stuff that I would always hear. And then years later, like, one of my best friend was like, so I was like, there's no way this weird thing you're doing is gonna ever pay off. And he's like, but then now look at you. So he's like, he's like, I don't know how you do that. You did that stuff. And for me, I'm like, for me, I feel like, well, man, I'm only here when I should be here, right? But from the perspective of my friends and the people I was hanging out with and the perspective that they were in the limited perspective, they feel like I'm much farther along. And so I feel like there's so many. You have to find different people. You have to be hang out in spheres of people that are at different. Obviously, clearly this is what everybody says, different levels, because they have different perspectives and they'll challenge you to grow and grow and grow. Right? And that's why. But yeah, my journey was listening to people that have already been to where I'm at and trusting in that a bit more. That again, a lot of people don't trust those. A lot of people only see the negative and they're like, oh, can this person looks like they can do it? So, but, but I, but I doubt it's real. You know, they're, that's what they're, they're. They're always saying, right? They're doubting it. They, they have doubt. They have their, their base putting negative on it. And I like to try to think in a positive way, like, oh, well, maybe this is possible. Maybe this is doable, you know, like, I don't shame people that are in mlm. I think, hey, more Power to them for being, you know, like. And, and so I think that there's always going to be someone who's going to have a negative response and someone who's going to have a sort of always looking at the, you know, at the, at the. What would you call that? Like, the positive thing or like the truth behind it or like, the possibilities of it? Yeah, like, yeah, like. Like that. It's. That. That it is doable. It is possible, you know, like. And so I've always had that. And I think that me being curious about. About things that. That are getting you there. Right, that's probably also helped me to create, you know, to, to think on my own and be able to follow my instincts as I ascend, you know.

What is it that you want our listeners to know about you and what's going on with you?

Oh, I don't know. What do I. I don't know. I'm an entrepreneur who is, like, always trying to figure it out day by day, trying to grow my business, trying to grow my impact, trying to grow beautiful, you know, thoughtful, good humans in the world. Trying to create a legacy for myself, for my family. And, you know, so that's my, those are my, those are my goals. I don't got a, you know, I'm not a drive fast cars, Lambo guy. Not that I have a problem with, you know, fast cars necessarily, but. But my, my, my goal in right now is to just continue to serve people as I can, to give. To be someone who has tools and technology that people can use to help themselves and create more impact for themselves. And that's one thing I love. So obviously with our software platforms and new platforms that we have coming down the pipeline, those are kind of the things that we are always looking to do. We just want to continue to help. Help people, you know, you know, build. Create their own businesses, build up their businesses, create bigger impact in the world. And, and so I want to continue to help other people create impact while I personally am, you know, trying to, you know, kind of also foster, you know, creating a bigger impact in my home, you know, and things like that.

So you help people, help people. I know that.

Help people, help people.

Yeah, I know that.

That's. Yeah, that's true.

Yep.

That's what we. That's our continued goal is to try to help people. So we actually created a podcast that's going to be coming out called Impact Warrior. And the whole idea is like, we want to hear how other people have impacted their communities, the struggles they've gone through to get to where they're at. You know, the. You know, the warrior concept, like how. What if. What battles have you had to fight in order to get where you're at?

I love it. And especially because you're going to get. You're going to get the stories of my gut said yes and I had to fight tooth and nail against it. I can't wait. That's exciting. When is that coming out?

Well, we've already had. We're basically now queuing up, like, several interviews right now, so. So, yeah, so I'll be. I'll be reaching out to you as well.

Okay, fantastic. Well, I want to send people to your Twitter and Instagram and it's your name.

Yep, that's right.

Okay. And what you see is what you get. People may or may not know. I don't follow anyone, but I do check in on people and I check in on you.

I like that you say you don't follow. You check in. I think that's a really healthy way to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's my. My Instagram is just. It's just me. You know, sometimes my. My team is posting some videos that we've shot. I'll put stories up. I'm. No, I'm normally. Anything with the kids is normally me doing something right.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Great. Great family. Well, thank you for being here and we will speak soon.

Thank you very much. This was awesome.

I know it's true.

I know it's true. This episode of Trust Yourself, the podcast is created, written and produced by me, your host, Betsy Lefay. Music provided by the amazing and generous Ben Talmi. Thanks, Ben. If you'd like to find out more about me and my work and specifically how you can trust your intuition, head over to betsylithay.com. thanks again for being here. See you next time.

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