A, B, or C Players? How Smart Leaders Build Teams Without Destroying Culture

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Every single one of us has a business that is built 100% on a players. Just the. The. This is what I love about when I do the hook. Is the things up. Well, yeah, not only that, but it's. It's. It's. I feel bad for the people that just listen to the podcast instead of watching it because the look on Chrissy's face right now of WTF is there's no. There's no way around it. We are going to talk, though. A, B and C players all have a good place, correct?

Yes.

Yeah, there's. There is a place for them in every business. You just have to figure out what it is and how to do it. Stay tuned. She's the CEO.

He's the marketing and operations guy.

If it's broken, you need the business fix.

We are navigating the holidays. Yay. We.

We are navigating the last holiday before we get that long stretch of ha.

I love that you think it's ha. It's travel season after that. For me. I am out of town like every week. I January to March.

See, this is where our industries are so different because, like, everything changes for you in December. We get busy. October, November, December, Like, October, November. There's always some big projects. We're doing December. People are like, I still have some marketing budget left that I have to spend. Who can I give this to? And I'm over here like, us.

Oh, yeah. Nobody wants to do anything with. They have to talk to us on the insurance side in December.

Sure.

They don't want to. They don't have a choice.

Yeah, we can help them spend their money. But like a bunch of us video producers talk and January, a couple of us are like, hey, we should just go to Florida because the phone is not there. No one is in the studio. Nothing. It's like so like going into January here, is that like, I don't want to say we're coasting through it, but it's that it for us. It's that rebuild like, what did we screw up last year? How can we fix things this year? Okay, this is when we plan. Because October, November, December are so busy.

And see, January for us is really the apology tour because the carriers haven't done the things they were supposed to do because they were backlogged because of the holidays. And so our clients are upset and they're mad at us and we're like, oh no, no, this is who you need to be mad at. So we're demanding apologies from all the major insurance carriers on behalf of our clients for the things that they didn't do when we submitted their enrollments in November. And we haven't gotten their ID cards since January 15th. It hasn't. I mean it only happens every year for the last 10 years since the Affordable Care Act. But you know, someday they'll, they'll perform.

Would you say that those are C players?

Oh, beyond C players.

We've had this discussion and one of our number one podcast is still termination. I know people and like looking at that. So that there, that is the, the DF players that you terminate.

Yes.

We always talk like we category whether you want to or not. You categorize your people like, this is an A player, this is a B player. You may not give them that name.

No.

But industry, most people, you can kind of generally come to that.

Yeah.

The true sign of great leadership isn't. I mean, we all just want to hire A players, but we also realize that that is a bad idea too. And an example I want to give of that is meta. Yes, they recently went out and they poached a bunch of other like super high level AI people and they poached a bunch of like super high level, super arrogant, super like leader people. And it is that very much like there was the, the mass hiring and the mass exit is corral it properly.

You have to hire the leadership that can corral those personalities. Otherwise you're going to be miserable.

Correct. And they were because they had nothing but A players. And those, all of those A players were looking around at each other like, well, screw this. If I can't be the star, I am going to get the heck out of here. And I think, I mean like team sports, I played soccer. There's always that a player on the team. There's always the, the, the high level player that needs that spotlight and they, they deserve it in many cases. In the same sense, you've got to have those other players on your team.

Yeah.

Because if you just have the one person on the field, it's probably not going to go well.

Yeah. Depending on what you're doing.

Even if, Even if they're the superstar. I mean, if it's bowling, yeah. You need, you need all eight players. But if it's, if it's soccer, if it's football, if it's baseball, there's, there's. Everyone has their role in that from, I mean, your people first perspective.

Yeah.

How does a leader. And I love this.

Ethically. Yes.

Because you're going to be better suited to talk about that than I will ethically and efficiently figure out who the A, B and C players are. And then additionally, like, how does your approach differ between those ones? So that way you can build a good culture rather than this toxic, like, going around screaming at C players, being like, you should be more like a player.

Okay. So few things. We're gonna, we're gonna.

I figured there's gonna be a few.

We're gonna lay a foundation first.

Otherwise, this is a very short podcast.

You just do it. So I wanna start by saying out loud, A, B and C are not value judgments about people. They're descriptions of fit and contribution, each in a specific seat.

Yes.

Right.

Yes.

So because we get into ethical trouble when we turn performance labels into character labels, as you. Yes. By your laugh, you know, this is a problem.

They're not an idiot. They're just in the wrong seat.

They're just in the wrong seat. Good leaders can separate who someone is from where they're positioned. So everyone. A, B and C is a culture fit. They have to be. Whether they're an A player. You have to know, regardless of whether they're labeled A, B or C, they fit in the culture, they fit in the mission. They understand the values. They're a purpose fit. We don't grade people, we place them.

Ooh.

Yeah.

So this is not like beef.

No. This is not the usda. We are not grading.

Well, if only I would come up with that analogy.

No, it's okay. I think it makes perfect sense. Because what I want to kind of talk about is like, I label A, B and C and I give them names because, you know, we've got A, make it easy. So here's my A, B and C.

I would expect nothing less.

I know you wouldn't. I know you wouldn't. And I'm going to describe all of them. But architects design the future. So those are A's builders, execute the plan B, and then contributors make it all work day in and day out. So that is C. So how do you ethically Define them. Okay, let's talk about architects. They're the A players. High complexity, high ambiguity. So architects can design direction and solve problems that they don't have a playbook for. So they're the best at strategy, innovation, client retention roles. Where there isn't a clear playbook, they're helping write the rules. So here's the trap though, for A players and where we get a mistake, especially as entrepreneurs, when we think, I have to have all A players. Right? Not every role needs an A player brain.

No.

And you don't need A players all the time. They'll break things when they're bored, which is a couple podcasts ago. A lot of times architects break things when they're bored if they don't have self awareness. That's the other part is architects have to make sure that you have to work on training to make sure that they have self awareness, because most of them do not. Raising my hand is someone who's an architect who had to work a lot on her self awareness. So it's not because I'm labeling, because not only am I a client, only of the company, I'm also a client. All right, so and the other thing too about A players, you put an A player in a routine, heavy role, it's a really fast way to burn them out and confuse the team because they're going to start breaking things, they're going to start trying to do things a different way. And if they don't have the self awareness or the skills that have been developed in professional development to lead a team, they're going to cause some challenges for you or opportunities for growth, depending on how you want to phrase it.

Both of those were much more polite than I would have put them.

So, any Questions, comments on 8 players Arcade games, architects right now?

No, I, I, I, I love how you phrase that. And to me, the architect piece, yeah, they, they're the designers. There's the ones that, they're the dreamers.

They are.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Okay, so then let's go to, let's go to B players, the builders. They are the engine room. So they turn vision into something real and repeatable. So B players are kind of the backbone in most organizations. They execute, they stabilize. They're the people that you really, you're like, oh, I'm so glad that person's here. So they lead projects, they lead teams, they keep the trains running. High consistency, high reliability. I love teams that have solid leadership that would be considered B players. And I will say this, B players can turn into A players with the right type of development. So these things are not, you're not just labeled and stuck somewhere. Okay? So you got to think about what they like. They want clarity, they want consistency, they want direction. Those three Cs of leadership we keep talking about clarity, consistency and care. B players love them, builders love them. And when they get it, they're incredibly reliable. So. And culturally, B players matter, I would say, even more than your architects because they model what good looks like every day, day in, day out.

Totally agree with that one. Yeah, that's like the, the Chiefs, Indians thing.

Yes. Yeah, it is. And then here's what I will say about B players. If you neglect them A players, when you neglect them, sometimes they'll get a little moody or they'll go and you're.

Like, oh crap, I have to untie.

This, I have to untie this. What did you do? Sometimes you run without permission. But I will say this. If you neglect your B players because you're constantly searching for that A player unicorn, your culture is going to collapse. And so that's where these individuals are so stabilizing to your organization because they can help you continue to move in the right direction. And they're really good at corralling those C players which are your contributors. So before I go to contributors, anything you want to say about B?

No.

Okay.

No. I have my, my own structure that I've got.

I'm excited to hear about yours too.

I didn't like, I didn't give the cool names to them. You didn't expect that?

I didn't expect that. That's, that's, that's what I do. That's what I do. I love to label. So contributors see players. So right seed opportunity, not a failure. So contributors make sure the work actually gets done every single time. They're the ones that are perfectly happy with a repeatable task. I want to come to work, I want to do my job. I go home. They are extremely consistent, like another, another C word for C players. They're contributors. They're also consistent. So here's where I think kind of leaders get this wrong. They look at a C player as being a low capability person. And that is not even close to what it is. Often with those types of players, they're in the wrong seat or they haven't been given enough clarification, clarity, consistency, and kind of talking about what they do. Because most people are phenomenal and they can be in high routine, low risk, detail driven work. That's what those consistent contributors are for. So compliance, administrative, follow up, data accuracy. Those roles don't need constant innovation. They really need consistency. They need people who are just willing to show up every day and do the contribution. And so I will tell you too, around a C player, I mean if the role is clearly defined, that contributor, if we are going to grade them, they're going to do A level work all of the time in the right seat, correct? Yeah.

What's interesting, and I'll get into this some in mine is they will do A level work, but not a style work.

Yes, that's a good way to put.

It because it's a different thing.

It is. Completely agree. So let's shift. Since I've labeled them architects, builders and not that we're labeling contributors, I'm labeling the roles. Not grading. Not grading.

I'm, I'm going to just, I'm going to stay on that issue just because that's what I do. I'm like a dog when I get a hold of it. I'm not letting go. I may growl later.

That's totally fine. How do we practically ensure we're putting those A, B, C players in the right seats? So let's talk. I want you to talk about concrete steps leaders take. Matching strengths, routine dependable skills. How do you do this?

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I'll give you a few seconds to go to the website while we get ready to get back to the show. You said it. And I say this too. Role clarity. What is your job? What are you trying to accomplish? That is the, that is the biggest thing where people get off track. With A, B and C players. What is their job and what are they trying to accomplish? Because each one of those needs something different. The way that gets off track is people don't like audit the skills that people have. They give it this gut feeling like, oh, they're not good at the thing. Well, they not may not be good at the thing the way you have it set up.

Did you explain the thing correct? Yeah.

And I've seen so many times where it's someone's like, hey, they aren't good with Excel. No, no, no. They didn't do Excel the way you would do it. They put, they, they switched five columns around. So when you looked at the sheet, it looked totally foreign to you. That, that's not an issue. That's the. And that's one of those things. So it's not a skill issue. That's probably a clarity issue. I'd like it done this specific way or just work with it the other way. The other thing is, is that, like, I try and look at if there is a C player that is becoming a C minus or D plus player is I try and look at a three move rule.

Okay.

Are they in the wrong spot? And what are two or three other places that I could put them in where they may be a better fit? Now?

Yes.

I don't move someone three times.

Okay. But because often will you move someone, Josh?

Like, there's been times where I've brought someone in and I've realized, oh, hey, this isn't the right role. Yeah, but you have to be honest about it and not just be like, oh, well, they're not good in accounting, so I'll put them in sales because we've got an opening in sales. No, that's not like, when they're not good in accounting, you have to look at like, what skills do they have and what role can you develop for them? What. I mean, because once again, I've had C players turn in straight to A players right away because those covers were kind of pulled back and just because they were in the wrong spot. When you move them to the right spot, the champagne rains down from the heavens the angels sing. All the amazing stuff happens.

Yes.

To me, like, the way that I look at it is like, with A's. For me, it's. I tell them the what, let them kind of figure out the how. Just go do the thing, micromanage, Let me know when it's done.

Yep.

The other thing is, is I try and make sure that they've got some free time. If there's 20%, that's amazing. But if you give them some free time to let them think through things, you're going to get some great problem solving out of them rather than just, hey, here's how we've always done it.

Yeah. They're generally curious.

Right. And they want, they want to find a better way to do it because they're like, in Many cases your A player is like, I want to get onto something else.

Exactly. So can I fix this so I can move on?

You've done it this way for so long and I realize it can take half the time if I do it this other way. Yeah, go. Go right ahead.

Do it.

Yeah. Please do that for us.

Yeah.

The thing with them is removing those bottlenecks and making sure. You know what, you know what? One of my favorite bottlenecks to remove is?

Which one?

Meetings.

That's true. I know.

Did we talk about a podcast?

You talked about how your hatred of meetings.

If I had a meeting today, that literally. It was a half an hour meeting, we had 15 minutes left. Because I sent everything that they needed ahead of time.

Yes.

They looked at it. They're like, oh, yeah. As soon as I said, what are your thoughts? They're like, this is wonderful. And I'm like, great, great. How was your holiday?

Yeah, I'm going to give. Do you want time back or do you want us to just bs because we can do either.

Either one. Yeah, either one. When it comes to the bees, to me, it's. It's looking at. I do, I do have some more meetings with them, but it is typically just as quick scheduled, one on one. In many cases it's a message. Hey, what are. What are some issues you're having? What are some ways that I can help?

Yep.

Those types of thing do amazing for keeping bees on track. And we use Google chat for communication. It's like Slack. It's like any others to send a message like that. It's personal. It's directed to them. They know, hey, this is for me and. And they feel free to answer whenever they get to it. I don't want to interrupt what they're doing. It appears it's there. It's slightly more important than an email, but it's not going to get buried. It's not time consuming. Nope. Good. Great. Awesome. Thanks. Have a great week. The other thing with them is I make sure that we look at the data from B players to make sure that they're on track. Because sometimes you will realize a B player is off track before they will.

Yes.

And to approach that B player to say, hey, I'm seeing something here. Let's talk about this once again. They're not always going to see it right up front.

No.

They don't have that broad vision. Now, once again, I like what you said. They can develop that as they start to move through an organization.

Absolutely.

And you can work with them on that. There are some people that come out of the womb as visionaries. There are other people where that needs developed, where that idea thing needs developed. So. And plus, I typically like bringing in people as a bit more of a B player. And there's the old Henry Ford example of the steak. You know which one I think you knew. Henry Ford took two engineers. This is a story. Don't know if it's true. Henry Ford took two engineers out to dinner and he ordered both of them steaks. And the one guy salted his steak and the guy. And the other guy tasted his steak and then salted it and the guy that tasted his steak first, that's the one that Henry Ford hired because he said you tasted it before, you, before you just dumped salt on it, whereas the other guy just changed it before he knew what it actually was. Because that thing could have been jerky for all he knew.

Yeah, exactly.

Right. Suddenly it's got a salt lick. The sea people. Now these are ones that like, to me, like, like you said, high structure, frequent, like similar tasks. And if you get the right C players, those are the ones that, I mean, to me can be. So those are the engines of my business.

Yeah.

They're going to show up, they're going to. It's repeatable. The thing that I love about this and kind of as we talk through this is the C players have the SOPs. So that way they know exactly what they're doing. There's no ambiguity to it. There are areas where we have Cs that are Bs and As depending on what they're doing and what they're working on.

Yeah.

And to me, so many people just say, oh, Bob doesn't do this. So therefore Bob's a C. No. Because in some areas Bob's probably an A. In some areas Bob's probably a B. If. And the, there's, and I don't want to say there's ambiguity to that. It's task and it's, it's process and it's thought specific.

Yeah.

What are they working on? Because if you just tell C players to do the thing and, and just shut up, you're losing out on some of your best ideas.

Yeah.

So I always warn people about like taking the C player and just shoving them in the dark corner like Milton and do that. I, I told them I, I did not want to move my office. Right. So if you just shove Milton in the basement, you're going to lose out on a lot of great ideas. You're going to lose out on a lot of the great process things. So don't. The. The difference is, is how they perform in, I guess I would say kind of the overall round numbers thing. Those a's, you know, 90% of the time, just let them run.

Yeah.

The bees, you know, give them guardrails, but once again, running still a little bit. The C's should have a lane, but make sure that they know that there's intersections up ahead that they should look at that they should be paying attention to. That, to me, is the thing where so many people, I feel, drop the ball on their A, B and C players.

Yes. Because they forget that they have to manage people.

Correct. They just like, go to your end of the building. I'm going to be crying under my desk, leave me alone.

Or, I want to work on my projects. You go work on the things that I don't want to work on. But I'm not going to tell you how to do them. So good luck.

No, not that we've ever done that before.

Never.

It's so funny because like so many of these things we've seen in other businesses, we've also seen in our own business.

We can identify it because we have lived experience.

Correct. That's. I'm not. It's funny. I talk about stuff like this all the time and I'm like, we've seen. And then sometimes I'm like, yeah, I was the idiot.

I screwed up.

Right? It's so. Yes.

Yeah.

That's. That's why we feel smart enough to have a podcast, is because we have screwed this up.

Yes. Don't make the same mistakes or make them faster.

And I guess that, to me, that's the other thing with the people is if you see that you have put a C player into a B seat overall.

Yeah.

That's a mistake.

It is.

Own that and realize that and have that awkward conversation like, hey, this wasn't the right move if you moved a B player into an A role too soon. Or maybe they just don't have that vision or that ability to solve problems. Realize it and realize that's not on them, that's on you.

Exactly.

I've seen so many times where people promote someone mistakenly and the person either A, they leave them there to flounder. The Peter Principle.

Yes.

Oh, well, the. I mean, we've promoted that. I love the wording of the. That I use in the Peter Principle. Promote someone to their level of incompetence.

Yes.

So you promote them until they can't do the job anymore. Once they can't do the job well, that's where you have to leave them.

Mm.

To me it's, it's making sure that you say, oh, maybe this isn't a fit. And you have to figure out how to have that sweaty 10 minute conversation. It may not be going back to their previous role.

No.

But finds if you've felt highly enough of them to think that they could move to an a role in that space, realize that there's probably something parallel that they will be able to do.

Yeah. And when you're migrating someone, I think it's important to understand that there is a time component that you have to have in managing or leading them. It's not going to be the same ease of, well, they were great at this job. Well, yeah. But now you have to train them to do a new job. It's like you just assume, oh, they know what to do. No, they don't. No, they don't.

It's a new hire.

It is a new hire.

They know your company.

Absolutely unfair for you to think like, oh, I'm just going to promote this person and they're just going to get it. That is less than 1%. So stop thinking that it's just going to happen and be magic. Just do the work. If you're a small business owner navigating the world of marketing or looking to establish yourself as an industry expert, you already know the power of a great podcast.

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Back to the show.

The best like you and I, I think, are the best examples of this because in some ways it was just get there and figure it out.

Yes.

The problem is, is most people don't want to do that. If they did, they would start their own business.

That's why they're on. That's why we're entrepreneurs. Most people are intrapreneurs, but they're intrapreneurs. Because they want to be led within an organization by someone else. So just suck it up. If you want to grow and have employees, this is part of what you have to do.

Yeah.

I'm not going to apologize for it. You just suck it up, buttercup, and train your people. Don't be a jerk and don't leave them to flounder and then go, I don't understand why they're not doing the work. Because you didn't explain it. Yeah.

You didn't train them.

No.

Speaking of which. Excellent segue.

Thank you.

That just like when it is a values mismatch or when is it a skills mismatch? Because there are two very, very different results from this. And unfortunately, many, many, many people handle these the same.

They do. And that's a problem.

That's a big problem.

I would say it's such an important distinction. You know, values mismatch is almost always, for me, a fire. It's 99.9%, in part because there's this tiny little percentage where I could say, maybe you didn't clarify what your organizational values are. But if you are. If you've got someone and they're like, I don't believe in your core values. We're not gonna. You're not gonna work here. And I don't think moving them to another department is going to help, because that's. That's something that I've seen a lot, and I made that mistake early in my career, too. It's like, oh, this person doesn't believe in our values. Let's just move them. No, let's just exit them. That's the kind thing to do. I mean, because it's really important that you know that your values are. You're going to show up when no one's looking, and they're going to show up when no one's looking. But your customers are going to be looking. When I say no one's looking, it's you. You're not paying attention to them. And you can train for skills, but we cannot train values. I cannot force you. I cannot coach integrity. I can't coach respect. I can coach a little bit of vulnerability, but you can't coach the love for your values. So if you're orienting someone into the organization, they're like, I don't believe in service and excellence. Those are two of our core values. I go, oh, today will be your last day. Thank you for being here. We're done. It's funny you say that, and you can leave.

When there was a Place that I exited. And it was. I had an altercation with another employee. Second time it had happened where this employee literally is like screaming at me in the corner.

Oh, no, no, no, no.

And the thing that I said to the CEO was, I said, I can't work. He, what he presented to me is he goes, what happens if we fire this person? He goes, we've moved this person four times and it hasn't worked out. And without hesitation.

No.

I looked at him square in the eyes and I said, I can't work for you. That's it.

No, exactly. Because you're, you're. That's your A players were exit. When you have toxic, it doesn't matter what they're A, B or C players. When you have toxicity around values, it doesn't matter where you move that person. They are going to be a cancer to your culture and your organization. Now, I will say on the mistake side, family businesses do this all the time because they can't fire the family member. For those of you who may have a family member that you need to fire, call me, we'll talk through it. Because I've dealt with that. I've had to personally fire family members.

Sure. No, I get it. It's difficult.

Well, it is. And then you're like, oh, but they're so sweet at home. Or they're so. We just, we just want them to succeed.

Thanksgiving's gonna suck.

Yeah, it is. Too bad.

No.

Do you want a business? Yes.

It's so funny because like I said, it's that and that company had a very toxic culture. And when you look at the people that stayed there, they had some very good operators.

Yes.

But These people were Bs and Cs. They had no A players because they just, I mean every A player was like, I'm not dealing with this.

Yeah.

So once again, all B's or C's, they had some, they had some extremely high performing. What I would label as C players. Like people that. I mean. Execute, execute, execute, execute, execute. Zero ideas, zero. Anything else?

Don't ask me to have any because you're going to be threatening to me. No way.

Correct. And when you see that in that culture, that, that to me was the. What's difficult is in this labeling of people as, as the USDA comes along and says, this is grade A, this.

Is, this is not beef. But okay, I'm going to give Chrissy, take your analogy.

The problem is you can't label those on just KPIs. No, there's pieces to that. Like that, a player, like that visionary idea thing.

Yeah.

That's not something that you're going to get a chart on at the end of the month.

No.

That specifically says like they had 10 ideas.

No.

So, like, how does transparency and performance metrics, like, how does that work for you when it comes to that type of thing?

Yeah. So I'd say one of the best ways to stay ethical as a leader is to make performance visible. So when you've got metrics that are clear and that are shared, when you've got values that are clear and shared, it removes a lot of the emotion and the subjectivity. There's still going to be some subjectivity in some of these things, especially as we deal with graduating into upper level management, how they handle things that may be a little bit more squishy. But when you have those clear definitions, as opposed to it being a label, people don't feel labeled, they feel measured. And measurement feels fair. Right. It protects the leader from favoritism, it protects the organization potentially from litigation. It protects the employee, and it really protects the employee from guessing games.

Yes.

So, and I will say this, as a leader, you also need to measure your own performance.

Yes.

And that is something where I think a lot of small businesses, you're like, I'm going to performance manage all my people. We've got all of these things. You know, 360 feedback can be really uncomfortable. It can be really powerful in helping you see where your gaps are. This is why I am a huge proponent of professional development. Getting yourself a business coach, getting someone who's able to say, hey, there's your blind spots. Here's what's going on. Because your team members, your employees are not always going to say those things to you. So you've got to be able to have people that are able to do that. So measuring your own performance is just as important as being transparent in the performance of measurement for other people. And I will say, share your performance with your team. Let them see it as well.

Yes. And don't just be like, hey, I'm Rockstar.

I'm amazing.

I know I am, but I'm amazing.

Here's where I screwed up this year.

That's why all you peasants are sitting down there.

No, we don't do that. We don't walk in with a, with a crown and a cape. No.

Yeah. No, no, no. Kind of. Last one to touch on with this. When you say, hey, for like a C player, this is turning into a C minus or D plus and it's.

Time to I mean, it's really easy. And it doesn't. It doesn't matter whether it's an A player, B player, or a C player. I mean, for me, it's. You cut ties when you've done the hard leadership work, which is you've clarified the expectations, you've tried repositioning if it's not a values issue, and then you've offered support. So if you've done those three things, you've been clear, you've retrained, and they're still not meeting that standard or owning their role. I mean, it's not just a contributor seat issue. I mean, you just. You let things go.

Yeah, I. That. That's when I'm just full agreement with that.

It.

It really. If it's. If it's not a fit, it's not a fit.

No. Because you're hostages, Both of you.

Correct. You're both hostages. And then, like, nothing's more awkward than being in the room with a bunch of hostages.

Exactly.

So all the rest of your employees are looking around like, those two ever gonna finally just like, kill each other or.

Exactly.

Right.

Or can we just fire this person and move on? And I will say it's just you exit them with dignity. And I think exiting someone, letting them go with dignity is the most honest thing you can do for them.

Yep.

This is not a fit. We appreciate the work that you've done. It's just not working out. And we're gonna separate. Right? That's okay.

That's all it takes.

Yes.

Actionable stuff.

Yes.

Oh, yeah. So to me, audit the roles. Define every single job in your company. Give it some measurable outputs. There's a scorecard. Instead of just do the things.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. I would say the next one is using that ABC lens. You know, what are they for the role? Determine what the task needs and then placing people accordingly. Having a good job description is really important in this area because it can clarify expectations before someone even walks in the door. Are we even hiring the right type of person?

Yeah. Do you have these skills?

Do you have these skills?

Yep. If you don't, there's the three move rule.

Yeah.

What are three other spots in the company that they me may be an asset in? And the big thing to me is, is first off, you've already changed this person's life. You've brought them into your company. Find like, they, you know, you've spent a month, two months, four months, six months, a year knowing this person. You should have an idea of what they're good at and what they're not good at. Find a spot for them. If you don't have that spot, make that spot or make the door open.

Yeah. And I would say the next one is, you know, documenting those wins. So when a C player succeeds in something that's routine, you need to celebrate that and document why? Because it's just as important to celebrate those, those mid level work, that C level work, the contributory work, as it is to celebrate the A level work. The architect work.

Yes. The last one, and this one. I. It's funny. Coach. Coach. The upside.

Yes.

Coaching your B players will get you far more than spending all day kissing your A player's ass.

Yeah.

Sports. Any sport I have ever played, there's like the best coaches work with the B players because they realize that out of these 10 people bringing them up, 5% each is going to be huge. Yeah. To take the A player and to get 1% out of them is a lot of work, but the A player is the cool guy in the room, so they're going to hang out with them. And once again, you get nothing out of it. You get barely anything out of it. Spend the time with the B players, working on them, working on developing them, working on growing them. Don't neglect either end, either of the other ends. If I had to put a label to it, I'd say probably 50, 30, 20. 50% on your B's, 30% on your C's, 20% on your A's. In terms of where you're going to spend your time?

Yeah.

What's one question a leader should ask themselves before they tell a C player? Hey, the door is open for you. We've packed your stuff.

So it's really simple. It's. Have I truly put this person in the right seat with clear expectations and support? Did I do my job?

Yep.

Because if I haven't clarified the role to find success, giving them a fair chance, firing's premature. I screwed up. But if I've done that work, I can't or they won't meet the standard, then it's really easy. But you've got to clarify expectations.

Yeah. Have you said clarify a lot?

Clarify and consistent.

That's what we should have called this, the clarifying podcast.

Podcast. All right, so what's the single biggest risk an operations leader takes when they try to put an A player into a highly routine, predictable role?

They're just like, nope, I'm out.

Yep. They're just.

And I mean, once again, you. You've seen this more than I have. Where they're like, oh, we're going to turn this knob. We're going to flip this switch. We're going to adjust this because they're like, hey, I can tinker here. No, no, no, no. This is not the tinkering spot. No, this is not. The things that you play with. These are not like, no. No switches, no buttons, no knobs. Stop turning things.

Yes.

And so yeah, you either a. They either exit because they're like snooze fest.

Yes.

You find them sleeping at their desk in between looking on. Indeed. Or they start turning knobs and you're like, why is my business imploding? And then all of a sudden you look over and every SOP is written totally different. The thing to me and like, you have to have each player someone that wants to build an A team. It's just not going to work. No, definitely just not going to work. That all being said, we know you want to build a high performing team. Clarity. HR helps with that.

We do. Yes.

Yeah, I figured. I figured you guys would do something like that. You know HR in the title scene, Turn the title. Yeah, it was my first clue.

Human Human resource.

Yes, yes. Seem.

Seem.

Aren't you proud of me for making that connection? Thank you. Thank you. If you want more information. Other resources past episodes businessfix podcast.com make sure to follow us on all of the social medias. Our Instagram's still killing it.

It is. It's great.

Yeah. It really is. Still killing it on Instagram. I'd love that. It's funny. I get notifications all day long, new followers and they're like, Kim sits there and she's like, why is your phone dinging? And I'm like, that's just my ego getting bigger.

People love us. I'm a big deal on Instagram. That's what I keep thinking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're influence.

No, no, no, no, not even close.

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