Failure Happens... Here’s What to Expect and What Great Leaders Do Next

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Before we turn the cameras on here, Chrissy just said failure gives her hives. So I feel like this is an excellent topic for us to talk. Don't you think?

So I'm so excited. I'm gonna start itching now.

Wonderful. So while Chrissy goes and gets some ointment, watch the intro. Stay tuned. She's the CEO.

He's the marketing and operations guy.

If it's broken, you need the business.

F.

How is the ointment working?

Yes, I'm good.

Are you sure?

I'm gonna be okay. Should I have take my Benadryl?

So Chrissy nods off halfway through the podcast. You know, the Benadryl has finally panicked.

It's all good.

Yeah, It's a combination of panic. I'm pretty sure there's no alcohol in that.

No.

Okay.

So.

No, it's just if she passes out halfway through the episode, realize the Benadryl kicked in. Yeah.

Yeah.

Benadryl says. Yeah, it says may cause drowsiness. It should say, don't make any plans. No, do not oper heavy machinery. I wouldn't even. I mean, I wouldn't even know if I was operating heavy machinery if I took Benadryl. Thankfully, like, this time of year, allergies are finally starting to subside a little bit. And there's some. But, yeah, it's not as bad. Yeah, I can. I. I can deal with this. Football's still going, so I'm assuming you're.

I'm happy. I'll be happy until February. I'll be depressed after, like, middle of February. I'm like, there's nothing.

See what I do?

I mean, there's basketball, but there's really.

Nothing because I'm typically out riding during the summer. I save a lot of the motorcycle, like, full races. Oh. To watch during the winter. So I know how they all work.

I can watch old football games.

Right. So I. I will put those on. And there's one or two series that isn't that public that I watch.

Yeah.

So I'll watch those throughout the. The winter when I'm pining to be. When I'm looking out of the window, depressed like you. We'll. Yeah, yeah, I'll text you and let you know.

Okay. Yeah, we'll record more podcasts. We'll go to two a week. Yes.

Don't say that. Don't say that. You will find a jaw shaped hole in that wall right behind you if you say that. Because that will be a giant failure. See? See how I'm saying?

Way to segue out of our banter, chop.

I've always felt like failure is an option. Some people say failure is not an option.

It's not.

It is an option.

It is.

If you don't mess up at some point, you're not trying hard enough. Now, there's varying degrees. There's messing up and there's. Oh, right, the oh, we messed this up is one thing for a business owner, though, how you respond to failure. And we're not going to talk about how to fail. I think all of us know how to.

We can all do that on our own, so.

Well, we're pretty good on this. That failure can become either a lesson or a liability. And how you react to that. We talk a lot about. I mean, last episode too, we talked a lot about how you react to things in leadership. I mean, same thing. How you manage the human side of disappointment. Um, I feel like Kim would be better to talk about. She's with me. She's used to disappointment is.

Self deprecation.

Correct. And then how you create an operational system that turns setbacks into forward momentum.

Oh, okay.

Ooh, Yeah. I mean, look, it's. You got to learn from something.

Yes.

You specifically brought up the employee expectations of leadership.

Yep. Our pre. Discussion. Yep.

Yeah. When things don't work out, when a leader admits that a project fails or oops, boo, boo. What do you think employees are expecting? And how does your demeanor when you handle this? How does that dictate the culture and how you do things moving forward?

Yeah. Because your response to failure teaches your team how they're allowed to respond to theirs.

Ooh, Yeah, I like that.

It does. So let's start with what employees actually expect when something doesn't work. How about that? Okay. Employees don't want spin. They don't want perfection. They want honesty, accountability, and a clear next step. So if you mess up and pretend nothing happened, or worse, you blame someone else, like the team member that's sitting next to you, that's a fast track to a culture of silence. People are gonna shut down. Trust drops, innovation dies. But if you show up and you say something like, that didn't go how we planned it. Here's what we learned, here's what we're gonna do about it. Now you're modeling ownership and safety. So again, we talk about psychological safety. I know people cringe whenever we say anything that's psychological. But I mean, psychological safety isn't soft. It's really strategic. And it's what lets your team take smart risks, speak up early, and stay engaged even when that road gets messy. And as a CEO, I mean, I get it, you want to be strong. You want everybody to think that you're bulletproof. You're not. But strength isn't pretending that you have it all figured out. Strength is saying, I'll own this and we'll figure it out together.

When you said the that didn't go as planned.

Didn't go as planned.

The way you said that, the way.

You say that, does it sound like I've dealt with it before?

Not only that, but it's very different because you're like, oh, that didn't go as planned. And you say it nice and pleasant. I'm like, oh, that didn't work. Yeah, we present slightly differently on some things.

And I think there's been some times where I've done it the same way as you. I think it just kind of depends. And so, I mean, you've really got to work on. And I've spent a lot of time as a recovering perfectionist and how to reframe failure because, oh, I mean, to me before failure, it was just awful. Like it was soul crushing, career ending. I'm going to be homeless. Why am I even like, why did I do this? Why did I do this?

Why does anyone listen to me?

So, I mean, we've worked on this at AUI and ClarityHR and we've adopted the mindset that failure equals data. It's nothing more I like that than data. It's not disaster, it's not shame. It's just feedback, which is a good word. I mean, if something flops, it means we're trying, we're testing, we're iterating. That's the work. That's how things grow. So instead of asking, did we fail? I'm asking, what did we learn and what's next?

I like that.

Yeah. Because a team that knows it's safe to learn out loud is a team that's going to continue to get better together.

The thing that I want to point out with that is the other thing with that is it's not a spin.

No, it's not.

It is very direct. It's not pointing fingers, it's not making anyone feel bad. It's very direct. But it's still. Let's get this on the road.

It is. And I would say it's like final thought in CEO perspective of failure is that if you want a culture that takes ownership, moves fast and learns as it goes, you have to lead that way first. So your tone in failure is the culture.

Ooh, yeah. And trying to think of the way to word this, but to me it's like everyone's going to react the same way that you do under pressure and that's going to dictate the thing that moves forward your day to day.

Yeah.

Is a big piece, but it's that 80, 20 rule. It is the 20% that you screwed up. Hopefully it's not 20%, but the hoping.

It'S closer to five.

Right. Or two. But how you react in that is the. That's the full culture. Because it is if you're fine 98% of the time, but when stuff goes sideways, you're a monster. You're always a monster. That's it.

Exactly. Exactly. So you want a culture that's honest, that's resilient, that's forward facing, and that's what you need to model as well. And so if you don't know, we have this great program at clarity called Resilient Operating System that kind of helps you deal with disruption. So. Love it. Yeah. Shameless plug.

No, that's. I get it. Because it fits right in there with how to act in that way.

It is. And it's building those skills. I mean, and we talked about emotional intelligence, we've talked about eq. It's really important that you build those soft skills around how you're going to communicate and couch failure.

Yeah, no, that makes 100% sense. Love that. Absolutely love it.

Yeah. So, I mean, from an operational standpoint, the emotional part of failure is tough, but the most important thing is really learning. So what are the key operational steps a business must take immediately after a failure to ensure they extract the necessary lessons and don't make the same mistakes again. Keep thinking Star Trek and like damage report. That's kind of how, when I, like, I read this in our notes, I'm like, it's like, damage report.

Yes. There is a reason why they still did that in year 3000 or whatever the heck that is.

All the episodes.

Yeah, I. I mean, really, to me, it first off, we've got to triage this thing. Okay? If, if someone comes in with a stab wound, you don't be like, huh, well, that went sideways.

Yeah.

No, you figure out what the hell went wrong. And so you look at, is this a fixable mistake? Like, is it a tactical error or is it something we just did? Like it. Did someone stumble? Did someone drop the ball accidentally? Did we, did someone click a wrong button? Okay, that's, that's fixable. Is it structural? Is this a thing where we were just headed in the exact wrong direction where we needed to be going? From a marketing perspective, you can be going one direction and all of a sudden the market goes another direction. You'd be like, oh, hey, we're marketing the no. 1 because everyone's over here. Something to keep track of the other thing. Document, document, document. Go back. And this is why I love having stuff in processes. This is why I love having stuff in like on or other task managers. When you look at stuff like that, there's two things with that. What went wrong?

Yeah.

And you can say, did we skip a step? Did we miss a step? Did we. How did that work?

Yeah.

Or is this, is this something that we need to change for? Is this something that we're going to start to see more often? Because sometimes when you fail at something, it's maybe an external reason that caused that failure. It's not because you're a failure. Even though the recovering perfectionist thinks so.

They always, yeah, we always blame ourselves 100%.

100%. So you have to look at that process from that to be like, okay, is this an outlier that okay, we just didn't click the right thing? We didn't do whatever, a problem that won't be happening again? Or is this, do we need to change to adapt for future trends, future issues? Did a supplier change what they do? Like, did an algorithm change from what we do from a marketing standpoint? Did. There's all sorts of external changes that can cause you to fail. So figuring out why that is, do you need to change your process or did you just. Is this a one off thing? The other thing that I always look at too is performance. On it is like I said, if someone didn't click the mouse button, if someone didn't do the thing, is, is this that one off, one off thing?

Yeah.

I believe it or not, I have missed clicking a box. Yeah. Imagine that. I have missed typing the thing. I have missed a step on things before. Holy cow. It happens to the best of us. It happens to those of us that love operations and live and die by this stuff. So is this a one off thing? Oops. Yep. Okay. Do we need to change, like the other thing is, is if this is a newer project or something you're trying, do we need to change the role or the person performing that task? That we've all, we've all done projects where we've had a person on it where we thought they'll be able to handle that. And suddenly we realize, you know what, this isn't an area that they're comfortable in. But we've got someone else that may be more comfortable next time we do this. Someone else is doing this instead of that person. Additionally, do we need to coach this person? Do we need to say, look, can we upskill you? Can we do the things to give you this thing? That, that to me, is it last. I believe you've mentioned clarity in communication.

Yes. That seems consistent, clear and showing care. Yes.

Okay, that, that seems. I forget where I've heard that before. Have you ever said that before?

Probably like episode 21 and then probably like the last episode we just did, episode 28.

Clarity seems to be a theme with you.

I know I name companies clarity, all the things really important. Right.

It seems, it seems to be a thing that seems to be a thing for you. For me, clear communication. Is it. Now the big piece that people forget is this has to be done internally and externally.

Oh, yes.

So many people don't realize that, like, if you have an issue, you need, like, who could this affect outside of your company?

Yes.

IT Clients. Is it suppliers?

Yes.

Who can this have an effect on? Because you need to address that.

Who are those stakeholders? Absolutely.

Immediately. And to me, it is okay to go to them and say, hey, look, there's an issue with. We're figuring this out. I will let you know what's happening. But it is so much better for them to hear that from you.

Yes.

Than it is from them to hear that from their shipping manager or than it is for them to hear it from someone outside the organization.

Yes.

Tell them upfront, hey, there's an issue, nine times out of 10, that honesty will go so much further in the relationship than anything else. Additionally, if that honesty doesn't work in that relationship, it's probably not the right relationship, whether it's a client or a supplier.

Oh, completely agree. And there's so much there to kind of unpack in value chain. So creating what that value chain is, who's responsible for what and then also who is ultimately responsible for communication in the relationship. Because if the shipping manager or the service delivery person doesn't do the service, the relationship manager who's maintaining the relationship and saying, is everything great? And they're like, no, it sucks. And then so it's. Make sure that you're pulling in the right people in your organization who need to have those conversations.

Because that relationship manager, they have officially, at that point. You know where I'm going with this.

Yeah.

They have walked into the shitstorm and you have not told them which direction the wind is coming from.

No. And chances are that relationship manager deals with that a lot just because of the nature of their job. So you do not, as an organization, need to create any more storms for those people.

No, no, no. No more poop storms. No, no more poop storms. The other thing is, to me, is to address it internally. And there's two ways to address it internally is, first off, there is the, like, we have an issue. The. You need to react quickly to saying, we have an issue. You need to react quickly to saying, we are addressing the issue. You don't need to necessarily react quickly to. Here's a solution. Take your time. Take that two minutes to breathe.

Yeah.

Because if the people know you're working on something, they're okay with that. I mean, if you've got someone hanging by their belt, strapped by the ceiling, okay, that. That needs immediate addressing. But for the most part, most of these things, whether you address it in 10 seconds or 10 minutes is not going to be the difference in, like that. Adding that speed is not going to make a difference. If anything, it's going to make a difference for the worse.

Yeah.

Because now you've probably reacted emotionally to this.

Yeah.

You're going to change a project or a product based on an emotional decision, based on an emotional reaction. It's the same thing we talk like in podcasting, I tell people all the time, if someone gives you a comment about your podcast that says, you should do this, don't do that, because that's one person's opinion. It's not. If you get 200 people saying that, then, yeah, you should probably change it. But don't react emotionally to that one comment when they say, change your podcast to this. Because you've got 200 other listeners that were perfectly happy with how it was, and you're changing it because of that one thing, because they emotionally drove you to that. Change it. When failure happens, it's the same thing. Slow your roll. Say, yes, we know there's an issue. Yes, we are working on it. Gather information, Figure out, go through that earlier process where I talked about, like, look, I mean, document it. Is this fixable? Is it structural? The postmortem, all those things. Go through those before you really start having that conversation about it. How do you handle the blame game? Do you like how I did that in the game show voice?

Thanks.

Welcome to the blame game, where all your employees hate you.

Yeah. Oh, gosh.

So Chrissy's loving this. It is.

I mean, blame's easy.

It is.

It is. Leadership says, what's next? And what did we learn? So, I mean, finger pointing is reactive. It's a defense mechanism. It's not a solution.

No.

So if you don't address it quickly, it spreads. It damages trust, it slows momentum, it erodes culture. So there are a couple of things I would say. The Blue Angels, every time they go out, they do their show, they come back, or anytime they practice, they come back and they do a postmortem of everything. What went right, what went wrong. And every one of them, every time they're giving feedback, says, happy to be here. So part of that is, you know, creating the culture of where, you know, let's figure out where the process. Process failed, but not who failed. It's not. It's not the person we're talking about the process. So shifting that language changes everything. Having a culture of appreciation. I know for the Blue Angels. Happy to be here every time. And they will literally rip each other apart like you were three. Three inches from killing me. But, you know, I'm still happy to be here. I mean, it's really interesting to watch kind of how they communicate with each other. And so it's been something that we've tried to foster at AUI and clarity. It's like, how can we create that culture of, you know, not a blame game. You didn't do this. So because of that, I have to do this. It's. What was the breakdown in the value chain here? How can we have a conversation? What was. What was the issue with the process? How can we make this better?

I. The thing that I want to add to that, that I look at it slightly differently. I'm okay with saying if someone failed, but then it's like, look, what can we do to make sure that that doesn't happen to you again in the future? Because, yes, if that person feels even a little bit bad about it and you step in to say, look, how can we make sure that this doesn't happen in an. In a genuine way?

Yes.

Because so many People will be like, how can we make sure this doesn't happen in the future? Because they say it in this blame thing, like, put it all on, you know, it is the, what can we do? How can we work together? Is it, can, can we give someone else a tat? Would it help if someone checked in with you? Do we need to, do we need another tool? What do we need to make suggestions and ask them like, hey, how can we help if you're genuine in that.

Well, and it's shifting the language and that shift changes everything because, you know, blame looks backward, accountability looks forward.

Yep, yep. How, how can we get better? That's the big thing. That. When do you think? Like, when do you say, Bob screwed this up four times? I don't know why I keep picking on Bob.

Bob.

It'S my fault for hiring him. See, accountability. When do you say, hey, look, it's been real, it's been fun. HR I'll call you about COBRA soon.

Yeah, well, because not every failure is a firing offense, right? Sometimes it's leadership myth. So when something goes wrong, we gotta pause before reacting as a leader. So I would say, as you're thinking about these, as a leader, you've gotta ask yourself three primary questions. And that is, you know, were the expectations clear? A lot of times the answer was no.

Correct.

Did we train well? Second one, you. If you didn't do one, then number two is a no. And then did we give them the right tools and support? If all of those things happened, I mean, if that's not the answer, then it's a process failure and that's on leadership to fix. So, I mean, but if you've done all that, the person still can't perform. We're not talking about innovation here where we're trying a whole bunch of different new things and it may fail, but if they still can't perform, or this is the one, that is the red flag that they're not willing to grow, I'm not going to change that. Then that's a competency failure. In which case we're going to be looking at knowing the difference between the process failure and a competency failure. That difference matters. One requires better systems. The other requires hard decisions so that clear expectations, frequent feedback, those early check ins help to spot which one you're dealing with before you end up stuck in resentment. Because if, if you have repeated failure as a leader, then oftentimes we get to resentment, we get to burnout, we get to culture damage, we get to frustration, we get to labeling somebody Toxic. But before you label that person as toxic and resistant to change or resistant to success, ask those questions about clarity of expectations, training and tools and support.

The other thing is I, I've always liked to ask, like, what part of this doesn't seem to work for. For you?

Yeah, that's a good one.

When you ask that to people, like, what. What are you finding difficult in this? Because it's. To me, once again, you have to present it in a way like, look, I am trying to remove barriers for you.

Yes.

As long as you approach it in like, hey, how can I help with like, what are you finding the most difficult in this?

Yeah.

When you approach it that way, that is, that is giving people the chance to voice and say, like, look, I'm. I'm having a problem with this. Is this something, once again, can we adapt for. Can we bring. Maybe they can take someone else part of someone else's job and we can switch some roles around. It's about making sure that you're putting people in the right places.

Yes. And ensuring that you're not seeing a pattern of failure. We talk about, like, in our household, we say, like, once is a tragedy, twice as a pattern. So. So how do we eliminate the pattern?

And there's some people that I like to say that, I mean, and I've experienced and I always like to say this, they may have the Midas touch. It does not turn to gold. No, there are some. I mean, I've hired people where I'm like, good culture, fit. And you're like, okay. And everything they touch turns straight to poop. And you're like, okay, let's. I like how they fit. Let's see how they work on this and then let's see how they work on this. And suddenly you realize it is just a charismatic person where you're like, damn, they don't fit.

And they don't.

They're that were not in their skill set.

No. And there's a difference too. You've got, you've got that adage of right person, right seat. Sometimes at the right person, you don't have a seat for them. Or they have to get it, want it and have the capacity for it. And if they don't have all three, then they're not the right person.

And then you've both failed.

You have, you have.

Leadership. When we're going to say it this way, when shit goes sideways, how can you project confidence and stability? Because once again, when, when the fan needs a pressure washing because a giant bucket of poo Just somehow got dumped in the fan.

Yeah.

It's tough to be like, ah, guys, be confident. We're good.

I know. Well, here's what. Here's something that I will say for emerging leaders or people that are still trying to figure out how to lead through uncertainty or lead when they want to vomit. Okay. Because I've had those. I mean, I had to deal with a company dealing with receivership that I took. That was in Texas. So your team reads your energy before they hear your words.

Yes. 100%, yes.

And so when things go sideways, and they will, your demeanor becomes message. And you don't need to pretend everything's fine because they know it's not.

Correct.

Don't lie. You have to stay steady, grounded, and solution focused. So one that I have used, I used it in 2020. I've used it. I used it when I was dealing with the company in Texas. I've used it when we've had pivots at AUI and clarity. I'll go, here's what we know, here's what we're doing, and here's where we're going. And if I have uncertainty, I'm going to say that too. But at least with the calm and the competence and the confidence to say, here's what we know, here's what we're doing, here's where we're going. And I'm not gonna lie if I don't know the answer. Like, do not make stuff up in that moment. Right. Because your tone creates psychological safety, and that safety is what keeps the team thinking clearly instead of bracing for fallout and updating their resume while you're sitting in the middle of the meeting. You've gotta be able to project calm. So, like with clients, we're talking about, you know, being proactive, owning that issue, communicating early and with your team. Don't be a disappearing leader.

Oh, gosh, I've seen that.

Or don't sugarcoat it, because it's one or the other. We're Pollyanna and it's all sunshine and rainbows or you don't exist. And they're like, where is this person? I will say this. If you have to deliver really bad information, there's a major change in your industry. There's a major change in your company. You may have had that vacation scheduled for months. You better not go on it. You better stay and you better talk to your team.

Yeah. Let's be honest. You did not start your business so you could spend your days buried in HR paperwork or Googling how to handle Employee drama.

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Strategy and finally get some peace of mind, head over to clarity hr.com that's clarity hr.com simple, clear, and here to help.

I'll give you a few seconds to go to the website while we get ready to get back to the show. It's interesting. I've addressed things a little bit differently. I have gone to my team before and as Flat said, this has me worried. When you address it that way, you're like, they're like, oh, okay. They're human. They're worried also. But I typically have a tendency to follow that up with something of like, okay, because this is worrisome. We could work on this. Yes, There's. There's a. I. Once again, anyone that knows me knows that I am not going to blow any sunshine where the sun normally does not shine.

Correct. That is very correct.

Is that understatement of the week? But to me, it is that. That directness to say, look, there's an opportunity in here somewhere. We need to sit down and look for that.

Yeah.

To figure out what we can do to get through this.

Yeah.

It's okay to be worried and it's okay to tell your people that you're worried. Don't tell them. Pack your bags.

Not if you want them to help you problem solve.

Right.

But you want them to help.

Being a little bit vulnerable.

Yes.

Goes a tremendous distance in not only them believing the things that you're going to say, but. But also them being like, oh, they're worried too. I gotta get behind. They want to work for someone that can be worried also.

Yeah.

Because they think all of us as business owners have golden parachutes. You may not be able to make payroll next week, but they still think you have a golden parachute.

They absolutely do. Unless you share your numbers with them. And they're like, oh, really? That's what we do. So I encourage you when you get to that point where you're working with buy in and you've gotten to a larger scale, that you share some of those numbers with your employees so they understand how the business works. But the other thing I will say too, Josh, about, you know, we talked about, like, not disappearing and not sugarcoating. I think it's really important when you've got uncertainty and you're working on solving problems together, that you speak clearly and you speak often.

Yes.

You cannot disappear because in the absence of information. I know this is just. This is me. I probably. You probably don't ever do this. I will create the worst, worst case scenarios if someone is not giving me all the information. Yeah.

And so straight there.

It's. It's your. It's important for you to fill that silence with truth, especially as the leader. That is your. If you have one responsibility in leading during uncertainty or leading through failure, it's being able to fill in the silence with truth.

Would that be clarity?

That would be clarity and consistency and care. All three.

Once again, please get Chrissy this T shirt.

No.

You would. You would wear that.

I would. I would wear it on an episode.

Yeah.

No questions asked.

Should we move to key takeaways and like how they can make action out of this?

We probably should.

I. I want to. I. I want to start with the first one. Own it.

Yeah.

Own it. Internally, externally. Own that. And if it's someone in your team that screwed up, it's your team.

Yep.

You have to own it. The coach loses just as bad as the rest of the team. So. Yeah. That's my number one.

Yeah. Mine is conduct a blameless postmortem. The Navy SEALs do this really well. What went right? What went wrong? What can be better? It's those three questions every time.

Write it down. Don't turn it into crappy wall art.

Thank you.

Write it down. We haven't heard that yet today. I didn't think is to me. Write it down. If you do not write it down. If you do not make notes about it, it's may very well crop up again. Ask me how I know this one. Please don't.

I would say be a thermostat, not a thermometer. Right. Control the emotional temperature of the room. Stay calm. Project clarity and forward momentum.

I love that. But then all I can hear is my dad. Don't play with a thermostat. Last one. Like something. Something went sideways.

Yeah.

Don't run away from it.

No.

You need to. We're business owners. We're managers. We're leaders. You need to get. You need to make a risk at some point again.

Yeah.

Don't hide in a bubble, because that is a risk in itself that you don't want to take. What's one immediate phrase a leader should use when there's a major kablooey when the poop hits the Fan to reassure the team that, hey, we got this.

Yeah, it's. Here's what we know, here's what we've learned, and here's how we move forward together.

Ooh, yeah, Together.

Even together. Because it communicates three things your team needs to face in the face of failure. That's transparency, stability, and direction. Because you don't need to pretend that everything's fine, but you do need to help people feel anchored, even when things feel uncertain. So the key is to stay calm, be honest, show up in the conversation. It's not about blame, it's about learning and leading forward. I love that that phrase does all three.

Ooh, look at that. Nicely done.

Yeah. What's the single most important piece of documentation needed after a project fails?

Anything. That's communication. It all has to be communication. And the thing that I. That I love about the communication piece to this. If you can solve all the problems in the world, if you do not communicate that both internally and externally doesn't matter. All that work you did. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Additionally, you can't. I mean, you can give the initial, hey, something's messed up, but you can't really communicate until you've done all the other steps that we've talked about in terms of the post mortem. The other things you have to do all those other steps before. Before you can really officially communicate. So communications, kind of the. Is that the bread and the poop sandwich, like the thing you need to do on the front. I know. No, I know. That's, that's. I, I know that one irritates you, and that's why I was like, oh, yeah, let's, let's, let's. Let's serve up a nice steaming hot sandwich for Chrissy. But to me, you're like, no, thanks, I'll pass. I don't care how much ketchup and mustard's on it, but to me, it. It is. You communicate up front and then, I mean, that is how it starts and that is how it finishes. That's much. It's much like a podcast. Yeah, It's. It's all about communication and a bunch of other stuff happens in between. I think we've helped people turn some setbacks into successes, or at least not continued failure. For everyone that's joined us, thank you. Thank you for spending the time. Thank you, Chrissy, for being resilient enough to. Now we are 29 episodes in.

That's amazing.

Yeah. That's a true test to your fortitude. That's why I mean that's why the resilient operating system I believe is working. You've been able to do this and you haven't had to check in any place. If you're looking for past episodes or other information you want to book us as speakers because we are a lot of fun.

We are a ton of fun.

BusinessFixPodcast.com follow us on all the socials, the business fix, a review, a subscription comments. We love to see the comments. They go a long way and they help us reach other business owners. We're going to talk about resiliency in the ups and downs because there's many of them. Sometimes they happen in a five minute stretch. It's amazing how you can smile and cry at the same time. As a business I never thought it was possible. Oh yeah, as always, do me a favor, take care of yourself. If you can take care of someone else, we will see you very very soon.

It.