Flexible or Inconsistent? The Leadership Mistake That’s Costing You Trust

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There's a lot of business owners that say, hey, I'm flexible. I'm assuming you've experienced that, where you're like, no, we like to go with the flow.

We don't like rules.

Yeah. We want to make sure that we've got the flexibility to do things how we need to, when we need to. And those typically have the employees that are bald. And it's not usually, like, male pattern hair loss.

No.

It's ripped out.

Or they don't know why they don't have people. Stay.

Correct. Correct. Those are also the. No, no one wants to work here anymore. People.

Yes.

Imagine that it's expensive. Yes.

It is.

Amazing what some SOPs can do. And I don't want to say I'm not inflexible.

No. Consistent.

Consistent, yes. That's the word I was looking for. That is what we're talking about this week. Stay tuned. She's the CEO.

He's the marketing and operations guy.

If it's broken, you need the business fix. Since we're talking about consistency, you're gonna. You're gonna like this.

Yeah.

And this is not gonna surprise you.

Okay.

My. I had a big shift recently. My dog stopped liking egg yolks as much.

Oh.

Still loves breakfast. Just later in the morning doesn't like egg yolks as much. So that caused me to shift from going from four egg whites and two whole eggs to. To just four whole eggs in the morning.

Okay.

That has been my breakfast for the past, like, 12 years.

Yeah.

Believe. We're talking about consistency.

Yes, we are.

I have worn out pans.

Yes.

That's consistency. What is the freakish thing that you do that's consistent?

Everything

I was about to say. I mean, like, I know there's certain things I have.

There's so many things in order. I know as a child, I had, like, there were certain things. My mom would always say, if you didn't brush your teeth in the right order, her day was ruined. So, I mean, like, I am freakishly Consistent when it comes to, like, getting ready, doing things I need to do.

Oh, wow, that sounds like a therapy session.

I probably. Maybe a little bit of ocd. Maybe I've gotten a lot better. Kids. Kids will humble and mellow you. So I can. I can believe that pets will do the same thing.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because there's times where. Yeah. Irving, like I said, he caused the big shift for me because we had to go from.

Yeah.

So. But yeah, I figured it out. It's been like a couple of thousand eggs. Like 10 or 12,000 eggs. So. Yeah. Interesting. And I'll make sure I brush my teeth in the right order tonight.

You have to brush your teeth in the right order. And I have to have like, silence, usually in the morning for a few minutes. Like just. If you talk to me too early. That's just wrong. Can't.

Oh, okay, quiet. I'll keep that in mind.

Why are you mad, Mom? Because you talk to me too soon.

Okay, that in mind. I will not Text Chrissy before 9:00am it's okay.

No, early is fine. It's just like, I need like five minutes of silence before I, like, do anything.

Okay. Yeah, that's consistent. Yeah. You need stuff to wake up my brain.

Yeah. I have to wake up and I have to just be in the right. Yeah. Pick my. Pick my mindset.

Okay, duly noted. Duly noted. That being said, every business owner we want. Every business owner besides us wants to be flexible.

Yeah, I like flexibility.

I do too. Because there are certain things and there's certain, like, I mean, lunch used to be at 1 o' clock for me every day for years, and now owning the business.

And that didn't happen.

No, I'm like, lunch on Tuesday. Next week it'll be Wednesday. It depends on when people want to schedule a studio. Stuff like that. So there's all sorts of those other inconsistencies. It's inconsistencies. This is gonna be a really long episode if I have a time saying that. But flexibility, I mean, to me it's a framework that allows for choice. And inconsistency is when you, when you move the goalposts. When, like, is the boss in what mood is the boss in that? It's so funny. I still remember, like, in fact, I just talked with a. Another executive that I worked with, the owner of a company that I worked at before. You had no clue what he was going to say, when he was going to say it. I mean, you could, you could try and predict his mood and be like, he's in a Good mood. I'm going to ask for this today, but now. And he would scream you right out of the office. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah. He was not a pleasant individual. But so, yeah, that inconsistency makes it. I mean, it's, it's stressful as hell.

It is. Absolutely. It's, it's a guessing game and people don't like to guess.

No. And it's, it's. To me, I mean, we're like, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to dive into my favorite saying here. I'm walking into a shit storm.

Yes.

I want to know which way the wind is blowing and if it is the poop tornado. What are you.

What are you going to do?

What do you do? So from an HR and like the CEO perspective, I mean, why is unstructured flexibility, and I like that term there, unstructured flexibility, like seat of the pants, actually dangerous. I mean, for a company, rather like a company as a whole and its culture.

Yeah.

And let's go even further because I said hr, their legal standing, because. Yes. This can legally bite you in the behind.

Yes, it can.

Yeah. I'm assuming you've seen that.

Oh, absolutely. Several times. Yeah. Happens a lot. So I want to start by stating clearly. I am pro flexibility. Yes. And I like flexibility. I want people and myself to have autonomy, balance, and agency. It's really important. But what I've learned, sometimes, painfully sometimes by watching our clients do things painfully, is that flexibility without consistency doesn't feel freeing. It's really stressful.

Yes.

And so the biggest leadership lie we tell ourselves is that consistency is rigid. And in reality, consistency is what creates freedom for leaders and for teams. So I would say that as we talk about consistency, because that's really what I think we need to talk about when we talk about flexibility, is that there are three Fs for consistency. So consistency.

I was excited to figure out what, what the letter of the day was.

I know it's F and it's not the word you think it is. So consistency creates freedom. So that's one F word. But it's by reducing friction, fatigue and fracture. And so, yeah, you're all the good one. All the.

This is. Yeah, that's to me, just right off the rip.

Yeah.

I mean, the freedom piece is what everyone's going for.

Yes. When they get flexibility, they think flexibility gives them freedom. It doesn't. Consistency is what gives you freedom. Yeah.

No, that's awesome. So friction.

Friction, yeah. So that's when rules feel personal. Work becomes political. So let's talk about friction. Friction shows up when employees don't know what the real rules are because the rules change depending on who's asking. You have separate roles for your kids. You have separate rules for your employees. Or this set of employees. Or this set of kids. Don't do that. So this is where leaders think they're being kind by saying, yes, but what the team really feels is another F word, and that's favoritism, and they don't like it.

And from there, the other F word.

Oh, yes. It becomes really bad. So here's what friction looks like in real life. Okay? Side conversations. How did they get that approved? How did they get that approved? I mean, like, that's just side conversations. Hesitation to ask for flexibility. Quiet resentment. Employees spending more energy interpreting leadership moods. You know, the weather pattern. Which way is the wind blowing when you're walking into your storm? They're worrying more about those moods than doing their jobs, reading moods like the weather. And so I've been that leader. I have done this wrong. I have made those off decisions thinking I was helping. I'm being flexible. I'm helping everyone. And because of that, I am their favorite leader. Not really. Because. What?

I still hated you.

They still hated me. And that's because I was creating comparison and confusion. So it's like you're giving this person, you're treating this person special. You're being favorites. No, I'm not. So, I mean, and at. At clarity, you know, we see this constantly. I mean, and leaders don't have a culture problem here. They really have a consistency gap. And so that friction is the first symptom. So, you know, if employees have to read your mood to know the rules, that's not flexibility, that's friction. So we want to eliminate friction. Second one, you ready? Is fatigue.

I think we've both been there.

We have. We have. And I would say this decision exhaustion is a leadership tax that you don't need to pay. No, you don't have to pay it. This one hits leaders hard because it sneaks up on you. When everything is flexible, every request becomes a decision. There is no autonomy. There is no way. You gotta make a decision on everything because, you know, well, there's the exception. There's always an exception.

Right? They shouldn't have to ask.

Exactly. So here's what fatigue looks like. Leaders defaulting to sure, fine, sure, it's fine.

You say that with a different tone than I do. Yeah, sure, fine, whatever.

Either way or avoiding decisions altogether, you just kind of, you know what Let me think about that. Oh, yeah, I should have thought about that. Oh, yeah, you'd asked me to think about that. So you just. You'd never make that decision. I'll get back to you Tuesday. I didn't say which Tuesday it was. So managers feeling drained and resentful, like, oh, my gosh, why are they always asking me questions? Don't they know the answer? Why are they asking me if they can do this? Well, because sometimes you've said yes and sometimes you've said no. Or if you're like this, the rule is that we don't do this. Well, you've said yes three times to this person, so somebody else is going to ask you too. Why is everybody asking me to approve their PTO when Janet's supposed to approve their pto? Because you did it and you're not supposed to. So. And then there's that. That inconsistent answer simply because you're tired. Those of us that are parents kind of deal with this too. Sometimes our kids, our teenagers are really good at knowing when to ask us questions because they know we're tired. Like, yeah, fine, go ahead and do it.

So I don't want to deal with this.

I deal with this. Or like, you know, if you are. If you are worthless between than two, that's when your employees are coming and asking you the questions. So as a survivor of decision fatigue, I've had moments where I realized I wasn't making better decisions. I was making faster ones just to clear my plate. Yep, go. Go do that. Yep. You can do that. Yep. You can do that. Because I just want to get to the next thing, and that's a moment to reset. So that for me, was a clear. Like, I've gotten much better at realizing when I'm not in the right space. So. And decision fatigue doesn't make you a bad leader. I think sometimes people think like, oh, I'm just exhausted making decisions. I must be a bad leader. That's not tr. It just makes you human. Yeah.

And in some cases, to me, would you make that analogy to kicking the can down the road?

Yeah.

Yeah. Sometimes I'll say yes now and deal with it later.

Yes. Yeah. So it's delayed. It's not delayed gratification, if you remember. It's not. It's bad. Systems are what protect humans from burnout.

Yes.

So when everything is flexible, leadership becomes exhausting. And the difference between authoritarian and authoritative. So they're guardrails. There are standards. They're documented and clarified values. You need to be as a leader Authoritative. You don't need to be authoritarian, but authoritative.

This is what it is.

That's what it is. Yep. And then that third F is fracture.

That just sounds bad, doesn't it?

I know. Because this is where inconsistency quietly breaks trust and creates risk. And I would say that out of all of the Fs that we've talked about, this is the most expensive. Because fracture happens when inconsistency erodes trust.

Sure.

And then this is what fracture looks like. Employees stop asking for flexibility. They stop giving feedback. They protect themselves instead of the mission. They're worried about themselves. And then culture becomes transactional instead of relational. And so you'd ask from an HR lens what this potentially does. Inconsistency is also where the legal risk lives.

Sure.

Because uneven application of policies is one of the most common factors in employee disputes. Because you applied this to this person, but you didn't apply the same standard and policy to this person. Great one. Relationships in the workplace. Well, these people were allowed to date. You didn't say anything. Well, because it was the head of sales and the head of marketing. Well, but I want to date this other person. Well, no, you can't. I mean, don't do that. Trust.

The way you say, don't do that always cracks me up.

Don't do that, don't do that. It's just. We just don't. So trust isn't build on perks or promises. It's built on that predictability. And so people don't need to agree with every rule that you have. They do need to trust, though, that the rules apply evenly. And I think that's something that often, as leaders, we think like, well, I want consensus. No, you don't. You want to be able to make sure that you can move the ball forward for your organization. Consensus does not always mean that everyone agrees. It's okay.

You're the consensus.

You are the consensus.

It's you. Like, as a leader, you have to make tough decisions sometimes.

Yes. And I don't. I want you to hear me in the context of someone who always wants to be a people pleaser. Okay. There were times when I was being coached by other individuals and saying, you need to remind yourself that you are the supreme leader of your business. Not because you're going to be an authoritarian dictator, but because you need to be authoritative in how you make this decision. Right. Yes. Now, I know there are some people that would hear that, like, I am the supreme leader of my. But no, we need to talk a little bit more. You need to listen to a couple of other episodes that. That comment was not for you.

When someone says that, do you picture yourself with a bunch of medals on your chest like some others? Like dictators?

Exactly. If you've got the medals on your. Or you got a scepter and a crown or like a fancy uniform. No. If that's where you are when you're thinking about that, that comment was not for you. But if you are the person who is like, I just. I want everyone to like me. We talked about the nice leader trap. If you're that person, then you need to think about, you are the supreme leader of your business. Your business is your baby. Got to take care of that baby. So the people that are in your organization, your employees, are the caretaker. So you've got to make sure that you're giving them the right consistency and the framework to be able to move forward. So let's take the reframe of consistency and freedom because we've talked about. Well, I don't want to be completely inflexible. I don't want to. Consistency doesn't remove flexibility. It really makes it possible.

100%.

Yes. And here's why it matters. We talk about being clear is to be kind. Clear rules remove fear. Clear processes remove politics. And those clear boundaries remove guilt. So that when employees know the guardrails, they're not anxious about asking. And when leaders know the framework, they're not drained by deciding. So policy isn't a cage, it's a container. And the container is what allows flexibility without chaos. It's why we have handbooks. It's why we have SOPs. Clear mission, vision and values. It's why we do those things and build that foundation. So I got a little bit more. That's okay. Clear policies.

I knew you were gonna like this one.

I do. I really like this one because I love. Well, we talked about, you know, the three Cs of leadership. I mean, consistency.

Yeah.

Care. All the things. So this is. This. This is. This is in the three Cs of leadership. It is about consistency. So clear policies create boundaries. Boundaries do not kill freedom. We've had this conversation a couple of other episodes, too. They create freedom. Yes. So how are we consistent avoiding FR and failure? There are four steps to avoiding the three Fs. All right? I know you're going to talk about more operation stuff, but this is. This is how we avoid the three Fs. We define what's flexible and what's not. We standardize how flexibility is requested. We communicate decisions transparently. And we apply criteria evenly even when it's uncomfortable. So in those four things, we get clear rules that lead to calm teams that have confident leaders. So you have to think about like improv comedy. I know that like people think like improv comedy is just absolute chaos. It is organized chaos because there are rules, there are yeses and there are no's. And without rules, it's not improv, it's chaos. But with those rules, it makes it really fun and interesting. And flexibility works the same way. Without consistency, it's not freedom, it's just no

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I'll give you a few seconds to go to the website while we get ready to get back to the show. It's interesting because what it reminds me back to is that consistency. Jimmy Carr was his. A comedian. He was talking to someone about something and he said, hard decisions now make easy decisions later.

Yes.

And that's. That exactly feeds into that. It really does.

Yeah. So, Josh, how does this lack of consistency impact the actual machine of the business? The workflows, marketing and the scaling.

Ah, yes. The. What I like to call the death of repeatability.

Yes.

If something is different every time you do it, there's a problem.

We've never done it the same way.

No. And I mean, I get like people like, well, all buildings are different. Correct. But they're all assembled the same way. So that's the big piece about that. I mean, you have to have systems that work the same way every time. Here's how you put the screw in the joist. Here's how you lay the concrete. Here's how you do the thing.

Starts with the foundation.

Exactly. Once you introduce. Well, I'm only going to put one screw in this instead of four. Like I'm supposed to.

There's a reason why we have building codes. Correct.

That's. And, well, this one's tough to get to. So I'm only going to put One in here. I mean, what happens with that is you, you force the team to stop and then now we've got to rebuild a custom process for one task.

Yeah.

To me it's, we've, I've said this all the time. Once is not a pattern. If you get something that has an outlier from what you normally do, one time is not a pattern. If it's below one time and above the next, that's. Those aren't patterns either. It has to be a pattern of. Look, we've, we've had this come up three times. Okay. That's when you start to look at it. And once again, you don't make an exception. You look at, do we need to rewrite the process to fit this type of thing? So that way, once again, those guardrails are there so people know, oh, hey, I can do three or four screws in this thing. Not one. But so because the problem is if you're making multiple exceptions on projects, you have to go back and look at that.

Yeah.

And so many people do that. The problem is, is if you don't have, if you don't have a process for it.

Yeah.

You don't know when you've got exceptions.

No. Because everything's an exception.

Everything's an exception. If you build a building different every single time, you first off, you never learn anything. Second off, you never get any better at it. And third off, you're just like winging it. The who time.

So.

No, the other thing that I found with this is we find like when you look at like project deadlines, there's. I worked at one place where deadlines were inflexible or deadlines were flexible until they weren't.

Yeah.

You don't know what capacity is first off. So if you're constantly pushing back deadlines, like are you over capacity or is it just people are doing things differently?

Yeah.

If there's rushed deadlines all the time, you're doing this wrong. The one. I worked at a video company for a short period of time where, I mean, we were working 50, 60 hours a week. And they're like, just squeeze this in.

Yeah.

No, it doesn't fit. Yeah, this, this is a big thing. This is a 20 hour thing that does not fit in the already 60 hour week that we have. When I would go to people and be like, what do we want to delay so we can get this done, they're like, nothing. Right. No, just, just find a way. No, that's not how this works. If you have processes, you can document you can look at your capacity. If you don't look at your capacity, you have no idea what you're up against. And then you run into problems. When, like, I Love your saying PTO shouldn't be panic.

Yes.

If you are running at 120% capacity and someone says, hey, gotta take that vacation time, you have no idea what you're looking for. And once again, if you aren't consistent about stuff, you have no idea what capacity is. There's an ebb and a flow to many businesses in terms of what, how much work they can do, being able to tell your client, yes, we'll get to that next month.

Yes.

Rather than saying, yeah, yeah, it's good because you have no idea what your capacity is, because you have no idea what the process is. It's just get it done. How long does it take? Yes, that's. That's not an answer. The other big thing is, is you cannot calculate the return on investment when the investment, AKA time and resources, is constantly shifting because of special requirements or moving goalposts. Oh, yeah, the look on your face. I said that. And I, I've seen it so many times. I just do the, Just add the one thing in. Well, that's like six hours.

Is it really that big of a deal? I've sat in meetings where I've had someone look at me and go, is it really that big of a deal? And you're like, yeah, it actually is.

Yeah, it's like 14 man hours.

Yeah.

And we're already at capacity, so you don't know what that, what that's like for me. I know what each podcast costs us to do when special requests are made and someone's like, can you just do the clips? Yeah, but that's your charge, right? Yeah, not only that, but here's gonna be another couple of days because we are scheduled on a tight schedule in terms of what's going where. Yes, I know when projects are due. I know when other people are expecting your stuff. I want everyone to feel like they are our only customer. They are not.

No. Here's your production schedule. Here's when it's coming.

And it all starts with, could you just. Like you said, it's just the big operational debt of that, of that flexibility of just. I'll just go ahead and do the things and screw the SOPs. We're going to throw this in here. Or like when the boss comes in, just add this into the project. And there's four people, People working on a project. They tell it to one per yeah.

No.

So, first off, time is not free. Your time is not free. Your employees time is not free.

No.

Every exception creates a debt that the team has to pay back later through cleanup, confusion, or rework.

Yes.

They threw something in the middle of a project and it didn't get done quite right because it didn't fit the process. And now it's not up to your standards. And now it's really expensive because they get to do it twice.

Yeah. Yes.

Once again, this is a hit for you. And who the hell wants to pay for that?

No.

As a business owner, I typically only like to pay for things once.

Yes.

Buy once, cry once, spend the time up front saying, this is what we do. This is how we do it. It's got to be true for both you and your employees. If you tolerate it or you tell your employees to go outside of the lines, guess what? You're going to notice your quality is going to start to suffer because they're going to be like, well, we just got to. They're going to make that decision of what are we going to do? Are we going to do quality or quantity?

Yeah.

Every time they have to pivot to. I don't know about you. Like, there's people that talk like, I can multitask. I'm like, no, you can't.

No. Your brain cannot, scientifically proven, Cannot multitask.

And for me, like, it takes me a while to wind back up into something.

Yes.

And you distract me with something and, oh, gosh, like, the next 20 minutes, I'm useless.

Yeah. Who can task switch now? There are studies about, like, how people can task switch and the speed within task switching, but you cannot hold two things at the same time.

No. And there's. There are some people that are very good at it. The. The example I. I like to give is an automotive shop.

Yep.

The manager of an automotive shop, he's managing the people. He's working on an estimate. And then the phone rings.

Yep.

And you can go like, hey, I'm going to talk on the phone. Okay, great. I'm right back into the estimate. I'm like, where the hell was I?

Yeah.

It takes me a minute to kind of figure that out. Where some people can put it down and pick it back up. I'm not one of those people. I guarantee that you have a mix of that in your employees. Don't think everyone can do it, or

the ability to manage several projects at a time. You have some team members who are going to be good at handling one project or two or three. Clients at a time. And then you may have some employees that can handle multiple projects or can. I mean, like, I know my capacity to project manage is way higher than most people's, but I don't expect people to do the same thing that I do.

No. And for me, I can do it, but I'm going to do it in chunks.

Yeah.

I can chunk this, I can chunk that, and I can chunk that, but I've got it tracked someplace. And once again, it all fits into a process. So I know, hey, I need to have this chunk of this project done by this date. Great. I'll work on this to get it up to date, and then I can go work on the other one to get it up to date, and then I can go work on the other one to do that. But once again, I can see. And it's all listed out. It's not just. I'm going to float around and work on whatever I feel. Whatever tickles my fancy.

Exactly. Well, I think a great, like, visual example would be kind of like an orchestra. So there are some people that can play one instrument. There's some people that can play two or three instruments. Some people are built for percussion, and they can move in different directions. And then there's the person that conducts the symphony, and they're able to see all of it and move all of it in the direction it needs to be. And I think that you have to look at your employees in some ways as, like, you know, how many things can they handle? Because if they're just a piccolo player, but they're like the best piccolo player, that's great. Sometimes you just need a piccolo player. Other times you need someone who can.

Don't give them a tuba.

Yes, don't give them a tuba. Or if they play, they play the viola and the violin, and they can play. Like, maybe they're good at some things, but they're not good at all of them. But they're kind of a jack of some of the trades, not all of them. But like, with percussion, a lot of times you have people that can play a whole bunch of different types of things.

Timpani, woodblock, drums, all of the. Yeah.

And then you get your conductor who's like, okay, we're gonna put this together and put this together. So look at it that way, too, as you're assembling things, you know, knowing what your team is capable of is really important.

Yeah, I like that. The other thing that I see, too, is when you ask people to switch and so many cases you end up with that burnout.

Yeah.

Once again you keep throwing tasks on top of tasks. Just handle this. And once again it doesn't go in the task system. No, done. The other thing is too, is like to me, consistency allows you to market things correctly.

Yeah, it does.

McDonald's, they've always said they do not have the best tasting burger in the world. No, they, they, but once again, they always used to have the best operations. You know exactly what you were getting in every single location. It didn't matter. You go here, you go California, you go Maine, Florida. Doesn't matter where you're at, you are getting the same exact product delivered the same exact way, the same exact time. And those employees are able to make the decisions when within those parameters to allow them to do that.

Yeah.

The other thing is too is like McDonald's is a big, big proof that great operations allow people who aren't necessarily invested to produce repeatable global product. I don't know, many like fast food workers typically, I mean, let's face it, they're typically there for a short term job. They're, they're not. Like there's some that make great careers out of it.

Yeah.

A majority of them are there for short term job and, but McDonald's has operationalized things well enough that even those people can come in and execute on a high level.

Yeah.

And create that consistency.

Yeah.

You cannot do that with flexibility.

No, no.

Because what happens when the top bun is on the bottom and the bottom bun is. And there's, I mean, I still remember the McDonald's move movie, two pickles. Every burger gets two pickles. Not one, two, two. It's that exact thing. When your internal operations are consistent, people know what to expect.

Yes.

That predictability you can market. If I know every single time I go into McDonald's, I, I know what I'm gonna get. Now, I'm not a big McDonald's fan, but I still know what I'm going to get when I'm going to go there. I know exactly what's going to happen there. The other piece to that is between 7 and 15 times is how many times people need to see and, or hear your stuff in order to remember it. If you're inconsistent with that message. People have no idea that they've heard you seven other times or 15 other times if you say one thing one time and something completely different the next time. No, it's why slogans are so common.

Yes.

Because they can do their commercial. They can talk about, let's, let's use a car Dealership, they can talk. Hey, we've got this kind of car on sale this month. But then they've got their slogan. And that is the thing that triggers that. Oh, this is recognizable. I have heard this 14 times before. Next time I'm going to go buy the car.

Yes.

The last thing that I want to talk about real quickly is scaling.

Yeah.

If you've built your business on one offs, if your processes are inconsistent, you are essentially building a house on a bad foundation. Everyone wants to scale their business. Everyone wants to build their business. It may look fine. You're like, hey, look, look at this brick foundation that I have. And then you realize, oh, it's built on a swamp, and I didn't use any mortar between the joints. And all this other stuff, as soon as you start to put any weight on that foundation is gone. And it doesn't take much before the whole thing starts to collapse. I don't know about you, but I have actually helped rebuild a footer wall in a house before.

Oh, wow.

It's much easier to do it before the house is on top of it.

Oh, I would think so. I would think so.

So, yeah. There is my analogy for the day. Build the foundation, right? And then as you scale, you're going to need to change. And I tell you what, you're going to need to put additions onto that basement and those other things. But as you scale, you have the ability to do that once again, it's that repeatability. And the other thing is, too, is as you invite new people in, they're going to. It's going to be the same thing, what to expect. Because I guarantee, like, whenever you hire someone, you're like, this is the most wonderful person ever. Ever. That's exactly why I hired them. They're amazing. They're awesome. Because you don't know how much of a pain in the ass they are yet.

It's fair. Everyone's on their best behavior when they're getting hired.

Oh, my gosh, yes.

And if you're mortified, then just don't hire them.

Right. And you, you think the world of them because they have, they.

They're always special. They have no flaws. It's like the first date, 100%.

You come, they come walking through the door, you're hoping, oh, champagne rains down from the heavens Angels are singing. The light seems to. The lighting seems to be amazing on them. It's like there's an Instagram filter in front of them. Yeah. The problem is if you don't have these operations in place, when that person comes walking through the door, you're automatically going to treat them different.

Yeah.

Suddenly you've set them up with a different expectation. Six months later, when they've disappointed you three times, and now you treat them the same as the rest of their employees, they're like, boy, they've really turned. Yeah, it. It was you, and you are the problem. That being said, how often does inconsistency come down to being, you know, the cool boss? Do you like how I said that?

Yeah, that's nice.

You're looking down, but did you see the jacket pop?

Nice job.

That's nice job. Because, you know you're the cool boss. Yeah, Yeah.

I would say, you know, no. Teams don't need a cool boss. They need a consistent one. Oh, gosh, they really do. I mean, leaders say yes often because they want to be liked. But being liked doesn't build trust. Clarity does.

It's so funny. The leaders that I can think back that I liked the most were the ones where I'd walk in and be like, hey, can we do this? And they'd be like, nope. They'd be like, oh, well, I see this. And they're like, still no.

Still no. And here's why.

Exactly. I mean, if they just were able to say, nope, that we can't do that, or whatever, I had no problem with that. When they'd be like, well, let's see what we can do with this, and let. Nope. Yes or no.

It's yes or no. Or, you know, that's a great idea. Tell me how you're going to accomplish it, and then you start asking questions. I mean, if you really want to train your people to think through processes, not just come up with an idea, but actually help solve the implementation piece, as a leader, ask them clarifying questions. Say yes or no, or say no, here's why. Or no. But I want you to tell me why you think I'm telling you no. It's like, that's those spaces where it can be really good. Yeah. You have to also know when everything's a yes. No one knows what actually matters. If you're a small business owner navigating the world of marketing or looking to establish yourself as an industry expert, you already know the power of a great podcast.

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and now back to the show.

100%. Yeah. How do you like. I like this topic. Documenting the flexibility.

Oh, yeah.

Like, as an HR person, like, I mean, you want to document everything we do.

We love it. Insurance, too. We love all the forms. All the forms, all the signatures.

I mean, just the sheer filing that you guys have to do.

I know. Thank God for the cloud. So you want, like, how to build a flexibility policy that's actually consistent.

Yeah. I mean, because, look, we need to adapt.

Yeah.

Business is changing. If you're still doing the same thing that you were in 1968, you probably have some problems now.

Yeah.

There's this new thing called the Internet. You may want to check it out.

You want to check it out. New thing called AI. You might want to check it out. You might want a policy about it. So just saying. You might. I would say, you know, flexibility only works when it is documented.

Yeah.

Because if people don't know how to ask who decides or what the criteria are, I mean, it's already broken.

Yep.

So simple policy turns flexibility from favoritism into fairness.

And to me, it's having a. Something that I've seen before that was effective was if you need flexibility with something, it needs to go through two people.

Yeah.

Because it. It shouldn't be just like, we've all had bad days where we're just like, just do it and get the hell out of my office.

Yes.

If it has to go through two people, you are far less likely to have the just do it and get the hell out of my office syndrome.

Yeah.

That way it really brings that together and makes sure that there's accountability to it. You can document it that way. The other thing that I see all the time is clients that break processes.

Yes.

And they're like, well, just do it this way. This would be so much easier.

I'm dealing with one right now.

I was about to say dealing with one right now. The look on your face said, this hits close to home to me. It's so funny because that is when stuff. Stuff starts to go sideways.

It is.

The top thing for me is, you know what you do?

Yes, do it.

Don't let the client tell you how to do it. Take their feedback, take their input, but do the thing.

Oh, and we're having this conversation right now because we have a client who we're walking through on an audit. And they're like, well, we think you can do it in half the time. And we're like, we think you're taking a gamble here, because we're pretty confident we can't. They're like, well, how about we do this, and then we'll pay you even more if it doesn't work. And I was like, that's fine, because it's not gonna work, because I already know what we do. Takes three months. You want to do it in one. And you like to talk a lot, so you're going to have a lot of conversations. And it's probably going to cost a lot more because it's going to take a lot longer. And you know what? This is one of those where I'm like, your inflexibility is going to cost you. But if you're willing to take that risk, fine. Just know this is not our standard work product. I think, especially when you've got customers that want to make an exception, and you are willing to make an exception because you've had a relationship for a long time and they are a good client, but occasionally they just don't want to listen to you. It happens. It does. It does. Because I think I can do this better. I'm like, you are not an HR expert. You do something else. But that's okay. We'll let you be an expert for now. It might be expensive. It's really important that you walk through and you document that with them, too, and say, you know what? We want to be flexible. Let's see if we can do it. But we're not going to. There is a line in where our integrity and our ability to deliver good work product is. And if we get to that line, we're going to tell you

it's interesting in our. Because we deliver different things. We set ours up that if someone says, hey, we'd like to do this, we will set it up as a different product.

Correct.

And then that way we can be flexible to them.

Yes.

But when it's setting up that different product, it's not just, oh, it's this thing with a tweak. It is a different product. And then I go through and say, okay, what's the cost on this? What is going to be their. Their cost?

Exactly.

Because I realize this is outside of what we normally do. And we're gonna. We're changing something here. So once again, it is a different product. It is not gonna have the same price.

Yes. And having the flexibility in your scope of work. So we have flexibility in this project.

Sure.

We've given them the recommendation, They've said, we'd really like to do it this way. And we're like, you know what? We can customize this and we can do it this way. Here is where we still have the contract. We still are consistent in these are the regulations and these are the things we have to do. So there's still a scope of work that gets signed. There's still a master service agreement which has. When it doesn't work the right way, this is what's going to happen. If all goes well, this is what's going to happen. Here's where the potential is for an overrun. Here's how we're going to have conversations about it. So we are still consistent in our process, even though we are being flexible potentially in how we are delivering the project. So there's still. It's. Yes. So it saves you from heartburn. Some of it. You're still gonna have some of it, but.

Says the woman that had a childhood ulcer.

Yeah, it's all good. It's fine.

What are some key takeaways from this week? To me? One is audit the exceptions. Go back, look at the last month and be like, how many times did I take a step out? More than twice. You don't have rules.

Yeah. I say you need to name the non negotiables. Before you talk about flexibility, you have to be crystal clear about what isn't flexible. Because people need to know those guardrails. So if they know the guardrails, core hours, deadlines, client commitments, they experience freedom and not fear.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Especially like the core hours and deadlines.

Yeah. This is it.

Get it done before this.

Exactly.

That's all I care about.

Yes.

Standardize the ask. When people are going to request flexibility in something, make sure that there is a way that it's not just someone poking their head in someone's office going, hey, dude, can I do this?

Yeah, yeah. Standardized. I like that.

I just saw the ulcer, like, start to.

It's just pinged for a second. I say what you need to do too, is review flexibility. Like a system, not a favorite. So you're setting that quarterly rhythm to review flexibility and is it actually working? Are the exceptions increasing? Are managers burning out? You treat flexibility as a System you refine. Not a perk you're handing out.

Ooh, I like that. Yeah.

Remember, flexibility is consistency.

Yeah, it's not. Yeah, go ahead and take that extra PTO day. I told four other people they couldn't have Monday off, but you can.

Exactly. No, don't do that.

Last but not least, clear is kind. Have we ever talked about that?

Just a few times. My favorite sayings. To be clear is to be kind.

Oh, 100% is. And it's like, to me, it's not kicking the can down the road. Work from anywhere and core hours. What is harder to keep consistent?

Work from anywhere is harder because it requires extreme clarity. Without clear deliverables and communication norms, it can quickly turn into inequity, which can really. It can wreak havoc on your team. Core hours are rhythm, and rhythm builds trust. So I think it's much easier for core hours as opposed to work from anywhere.

I agree with that. To me, it's tough to not have. Can I. Can I send them a message now or can't I? What? Is this a good time? Is this not a good time? Yeah, no, totally makes sense. Should you ever make an exception for the star employee? I believe we kind of covered this one a couple of episodes ago, but it's good to revisit.

It is. And I would say only if you're willing to apply the same criteria to everyone else. So, yeah, you can make the exception, but you've got to be willing to give it to everyone. If the exception can't be explained transparently, you're trading short term performance for long term trust. There are times where you have to make exceptions.

Yes.

Or you can make exceptions. Like that's. That's part of the flexibility of what we are as organizations. But you have to be able to defend it. And you have to be able to be willing to say, well, no, I'm not going to give you that. And here's why. There have to be clear criterion.

You have to be willing to put your hand on the anvil and pass out sledgehammers.

Yes. Yes, you do. Yeah. That's not fun. Josh, what's the one tool that keeps a team consistent without feeling robotic?

It's interesting because to me, it's twofold in that it is the. Like, we use asana for planning and tasks. People know what they are to get done, and they just know get it done. If they have some. If they need to do it a different way, they have full freedom and autonomy to do that differently. They just know that there's the end result, and we just got to get there. So to me, it's that. It's that clear. Goal post.

Yeah.

That's what makes it so people have the freedom because they know I have to get there.

You can run a million different plays to get there.

Yep.

But you got to get there.

Bus, train, plane, car, bicycle, little red wagon. Take whatever you want. Just get there on time. That's all I care. That being said, we're going to have another episode next week because, you know, that's consistent.

Yes, it is. We love consistency.

Guess what I'm having for breakfast tomorrow morning?

Four eggs.

You got it. That being said, business fix podcast dot com. Go listen to all the podcasts. Visit us there, leave comments, leave us messages. You probably leave Chrissy messages there. Probably a better idea.

I like messages.

She does. She does. That being said, next week is the return on investment of culture. Because that's one of those things where you, like, feel like, hey, I'm making people feel good and what the hell am I getting from? We're going to talk about that because there is a big return on investment. With that, as always, do me a favor, take care of yourself. If you can, take care of someone else, too. We will see you very, very soon. Sam.