How to Hire the Right Employee Without Wrecking Your Hiring Process

So our last episode, we talked about getting rid of people. I know you guys help hire people too, right?

We do.

And you have never hired the wrong person?

Never.

Me neither.

Ever. In our lives.

If you believe that we both have bridges that we would like to sell you. Maybe some oceanfront property in Arizona or wherever. Yes, yes. I've learned from some of my mistakes.

Absolutely.

I've learned some big ones.

Right.

If you would like to learn from some of our mistakes, stay tuned. She's the CEO.

He's the marketing and operations guy.

If it's broken, you need the business fix. Today we are talking about a universal challenge for business owners. Hiring.

Yeah. Finding the right people.

Yeah, Finding the right people. But what's interesting going on? Is there anything good, great or exciting this week or.

I say the last episode, when you asked me what's going on, I'm like, I'm just glad it's going to be over. Just outdated. Terrible.

Just let it be. I will share that. This morning I woke up and we discussed this right before we hit record. But my dog is older. Wonderful dog. He hides in the basement when there's thunder or lightning and he just sees the flash of light and he's like, nope, I am out. I usually wake up at 4 o' clock in the morning. I go downstairs, I'm usually in the gym lifting. And this morning all I was lifting was paper towels and disinfectant spray because the my dog had a little bit of an upset stomach. So that is how my morning started. So the day can only get better, right?

My day's been stellar. It's freaking great. I'm just happy.

So when I say I had a shitty start to the day, I 100% did.

You did? Yeah. My day's fine. Yeah. Good.

Glad to hear that. So, hiring.

Yes.

Stats. I got 74% of employers admit to making wrong hiring decisions. I feel like that number' low.

26% of people are lying.

80% of employee turnover is actually attributed to poor hiring choices.

Oh, heck. Yeah. That's. Yes. Agree.

I think early on. 100%. I agree with that. You've got reduced. I mean the cost that you're getting with this reduced productivity, delayed projects, team morale takes a hit when you hire the wrong person and when you have to say goodbye. We talked about goodbye.

Yes. Or if it's a constant revolving door.

Oh, that's even worse. That is even worse. So I mean, look, you guys, you help people hire.

Yeah.

You have to hire for your own company.

We do.

Like, what are some bits of strategy that you have that like you say, look, I mean these are the guidelines that we have to use.

Yeah. I think some of it, especially as a business leader is you have to go from being reactive to strategic and stop looking at hiring and operating in constant urgency. Because I think oftentimes like we gotta have somebody now. Now, now, now, now. And that means that oftentimes you're gonna hire the wrong person. You're not gonna hire the right fit. So you have to think of yourself as a visionary and not a firefighter. You gotta build systems and solve problems.

Yeah, I actually, so in a previous role I found a way to help solve some of that. And the story I'd like to give with that real quick is like, let's say you've got someone in your shipping department, someone in your shipping department leaves. So now the shipping manager, who's already probably working 50 hour weeks is now taking over that person's job.

Yes.

And so many companies are like, by the way, go find a great person.

Uh huh.

So you've already got the.

Do all the things, on top of the things.

Do all the things. So we've only taken you up to like 6570 hours a week. And, and on top of that we want you to find high quality people. We developed a top down, like we go to the middle managers and say, here's four resumes, we have already vetted them, we have talked with them, we have had one, we've had a round of interviews. You have to spend two hours picking the right person for you. We have picked the right person for the culture, we have picked the right person for the role. You just have to pick who you want working for you.

Yes. And that's the role of, I mean outsourced hr. That's the majority of what we do. On the recruiting and helping, helping staff side, it's getting through. We have that initial job description we've posted for the position we are screening and now we're like, okay, here's, here's 2, 3, 4, pick which one you like. Because they're all, they're all saying they're in range. They're all, they all seem to be a culture fit. They all seem to have all the criterion that they need to do the job. So let's make it easier as opposed to somebody who's just trying to sift through 200 resumes on top of everything else. So it's about efficiency.

So here's the question that I'm going to ask from the recruiting side for you guys. Then you said culture fit.

Yeah.

Is that a question?

So, yes, it is. It's usually a question that happens within the initial screening of, you know, talking about, you know, how do you approach work? What are some of your values and what you're looking for in a position so you can screen quickly for culture and then you deep screen as you go through the interview process.

Yeah, I'm going to go further back than that.

Yeah.

Like, I know a lot of recruiters.

They'Re salespeople, they're not recruiters.

And that's what I'm trying to get at is because to me, I see so many of them that say, okay, send me the job description and I'll find you someone.

No.

Yeah. That, to me sounds like a great way to get the wrong person.

It does. So inbound versus outbound. So oftentimes on the recruiting side, you're doing outbound, you're calling people that are already employed, that already have. That aren't actively looking, and that can be. That's a different type of approach. When we're talking about getting people into the organization. Screening for culture, it's a lot easier when they are inbound. So if you create something that is attractive as a job posting and people want to click on it, you can screen through and kind of see where those people are, are wanting to be. So I am a bigger proponent of inbound and inbound recruiting than I am outbound recruiting.

Interesting.

I'm going to get hate mail from all the recruiters because that's what we do. And I'm like, yeah, but most people don't do it well. You need to do it well.

No, I. I get. And I get that so much of it turns into that just grind, and there's a bit of the race to the bottom. Who can do this least expensive for the easiest position. And it's just. Yeah, I get how it happens. I'd like to ask people to be better than that.

Well, and some of it's a conversation and listening. So if you're doing recruiting, if you're the HR person or you're using an outsourced hr, like we are at Clarity, we're having a conversation with you about what is the ideal client like, what does that fit look like for you? We talk about ideal client. We also talk about ideal team member. What does that characteristic look like? What are the core values? But then what are the traits that you need specifically in a role? Because there's some roles where you're like, this can be a very introverted position. Position. They're going to be staring at a wall most of the time while they're doing the work that they're doing. I need someone who can do tedious work and not feel burnt out. So that's going to be a different screening than I need someone who's customer facing and can talk to everybody. So you can't have an extreme introvert work your front desk. If they're going to greet 250 people every day, that's gonna be really awkward. So it's, how do you fix it? How do you meet the right person?

Where's the receptionist in the bathroom again?

She's hiding and crying cause she has to talk to people. Like, that's not gonna work. And also as the person that's doing the initial screening, you're asking questions that can kind of give you the idea of do they even understand what they're doing. So like there's some things that we'll screen for where they're working out in oil fields and it's like, okay, we've got a couple questions where we're gonna ask about, well, tell us how this works and they've got to explain it. If they don't answer the question with some se of they know what they're talking about and we know what those things are, then we're not going to move them forward.

I love that. So there was a. I'm going to bust out the hiring story here. My dad in the mid-60s was trying to get hired by a company. He was trying to be sales position.

Yeah.

And it was four one hour long interviews, like a Thursday afternoon. Just brutal.

Yeah.

And my dad goes, I went through the first four or first three interviews and felt pretty good. He goes, I get to the fourth interview, guys door isn't open very far. He's in on the phone, kind of sounds upset, kind of. My dad's like, I made myself somewhat visible. The guy weighs me in, kind of on the phone for another minute. Finally he's upset, slams down the phone, what do you want? Dad's like, I'm here for my interview. I was like, you got a resume? My dad's like, yeah, kind of all excited, pulls it out like maybe there's still a chance. Gives it to the guy. Guy's like, yeah. He goes, I saw this. I don't know why you're here. My dad's like, oh, am I being punked, right? My dad's like, 45 minutes. The guy goes on, just kind of like everything I say is just completely Uninterested in. And he goes. 45 minutes later, the guy just totally changes his attitude. And it's like, you've done pretty well. My dad's like, what do you mean? And he goes, I'm hiring you for a sales position. I am sending you out there to talk to people all day long that want absolutely nothing to do with you. So I got to see how you're going to handle that, because you did pretty well. Now, I don't want to take things that far, especially in today's day and age. Like, I walk into an office like that. See ya.

Yeah, that's a lot.

Two minutes. I do not want to work here in the same sense. Like, I see it all the time. Like, everyone has a weird perception of. The example I love to give is Excel.

Okay?

Everyone's good at Excel because they don't know what it does beyond what they can do with it.

Exactly. I'm really good at Excel. You're good at data entry.

Correct. I've met so many people. I put numbers in the squares.

No.

Oh, that's not Excel. That's so not Excel. So I still remember when we hired my assistant as I literally had an Excel test up on my computer, and we were sitting there and I said, do you feel. And I didn't say, are you good at Excel? I said, do you feel proficient with basic formulas, finding mean. Mean averages? Do you feel Pivot table, stuff like that? She was like, yeah. And I said, great, turn my computer around. Said, here you go. We'll be back in 10 minutes.

Yeah.

And we. We left it for. And she actually Googled a couple of things, which I loved, because she went out, was resourceful, and found the answers and stuff like that. But to me, it was, you have to find ways to put people in. I don't want to say uncomfortable situations, but let's say demanding situations that are relevant to the job. Otherwise, it's just you sitting down, pouring them a cup of coffee and being like, hey, do I have a new buddy?

Yeah. Is it capable? Are they capable of doing it? One thing that I found fascinating is we have a couple of organizations on the manufacturing side. It's basic manufacturing that they're doing, and in order to make sure that someone can follow instructions, they have them put together Legos.

Oh, I love that.

So I don't necessarily need to know what you're. Because these. We're talking, like, very basic entry level. I don't necessarily need you to have a strong reading background, but I need to make sure that you can follow instructions and if something isn't working, I need you to be able to figure it out. So that's a great like, so thinking about what are some tests that you can do. I mean we've got assessments like salespeople, they do something called OMG. There's all kinds of different things. There's StrengthsFinder, there's, there's stuff that, that you can look at on the culture fit side disc. But when you're talking about the basics of how to do a job and you're like, well, I can't make them do the job today, but I can kind of see like how would they would maneuver, have that type of like Legos are a great one, I think.

Oh, that's a, I've never thought of that. And to me, just to have that base, like spatial awareness.

Yeah.

How well does this person put this stuff together?

Exactly. How long did it take? Did they follow the instructions? How do they follow the instructions? And then time it? I mean you can just be like, look, this is what I want you to do. I want you to put this together and then you can check back in five minutes and if it's done great, you come back in 10 minutes. And then you kind of got a gauge as to this is how this person approaches work. And then after that say, what'd you think about that? And if they're like, can I take it home? Like, sure, no, it's ours. I mean, it's going to cost you, what, 10 bucks to give them a set of like a tiny set of Legos with some instructions. It doesn't have to be hard.

The other thing I like about that too is like the Lego instructions are very clear because they're meant to be done by toddlers.

Exactly.

So yeah. No, and it, to me it is, it is finding those ways to really connect on the skill level of things.

Yes.

To ask them things. So many people. And what, what's difficult is, is so many managers don't know the, the, the intricacies of some of the base skill levels. Yes, they, they've got the bigger picture, but not necessarily some of those low level skills, so to say, or some of those low level terms. So doing that research to find those items to make sure that you can ask intelligently, like, hey, how do you view this? What's your, those are all key things that people miss instead of so many times I see it. So, like tell me your five strengths and five weaknesses.

I mean that's a good question, but is it a question that's really going to be. No. Is it going to be valuable to help you do the job? No, it's good. If you're talking about training for leadership. If I'm hiring somebody who's a manager, I do wanna know. Tell me the five things that you really love doing at work. Tell me the five things that you absolutely don't. And if somebody says, I don't ever wanna do dishes or ever have to clean up after anyone, ever. That's not a servant leader to me. So if they're like, I don't ever wanna have to clean up about something, that's what an assistant is for. Red flag. Don't say that. So if anybody's listening that wants a job with Chrissy, don't say, I don't wanna ever have to clean up after myself. It's just not. Okay. That's not. You're right. You're hired.

It's interesting cause I don't like the five questions, but I see, I mean, you've given me five or the two things.

Like five is a lot. Like give me two. Yeah, give me two.

The only other thing that I, that I. The. The reason why I like the. Tell me things that you're not good at and everyone's going to give you the Michael Scott answer. I care too much and I try too hard.

Yeah. And after that, what else?

Right.

Tell me more.

Right. Is to me, the, the thing that I like to see with those at least is some self awareness. That is the value there. I mean, when people, when I say, what are your strengths? I feel like, okay, do they get to brag?

No. And for us, we do an assessment of that. So tell us what we do. Strengthsfinder with part of Gallup. So I don't need you to tell me what your strengths are. I want you to tell me what you like doing. Because there is the I like it and I'm good at it. But there's. I'm good at it and I hate it. And there's some things that people be like, we wanna hire you. If I was being interviewed, God help them if I'm ever. I'm not employable.

Neither one of us. That's why we're doing this podcast.

But you're really good at that. We want you to do it. I'm like, but I hate it. I think it's really important to see that because then you can see the growth too on somebody's resume where they're like, yeah, I used to be in. I used to manage a sales team that was really hard. And I don't like doing that. I'm good at it. We grew by X amount, but I don't want to do that anymore. That's why I'm looking for another job. This is really what I would like to do, and I'm good at it. Those are qualifying questions. Tell me a situation where you handled X. So those types of situational, but make them very quick and don't allow them to just think for five minutes. Like, if they can't figure it out, pivot and ask something else. Because that's telling you that they're just gonna like. If somebody can give you an answer immediately, they're probably lying to you. And if it takes them more than 30 seconds to come up with a situation, they're glitching and you just gotta move them on because it's just not gonna work.

So it's often said that people don't leave jobs. What do they leave?

They leave people.

They leave managers.

Managers.

Yep. When someone's looking for a job and that's the case, you're pretty sure that's the case, but they won't say it. What are your thoughts on that?

What opportunities are you looking for for someone who leads you?

Interesting.

That's a question that I would ask. And here's the other thing that I will say. There are people who will tell you why they left every job, and they will have something negative to say about every job that they left. That is that. I mean, we talk about red flags. If they cannot say something nice about any of the organizations that they've worked in before, they're going to say the same thing about you in the next interview. And I would just say move on from that person.

That brings me to something else that I always find interesting is I find so many parallels between work and dating or relationships, and that's one of them. It's the same thing when, from a male perspective, if she says all of her exes were crazy, it was not all of her exes.

I've always been underappreciated. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Right? No one has ever truly valued me.

Correct.

If they're saying that in the interview. Move. No.

Yeah.

Move on. Move on.

Yeah. No, thank you. There's. And I mean, it's so funny. What I have found, too, is from people that are looking for jobs, most of them are not always salesmen. They're not salespeople.

No.

And this is the one time that they're trying to sell themselves.

Correct.

And what I feel like the problem is Is so many people have this expectation. It is the same as a relationship. If I don't get this, I failed. No, the problem is, is you may be the most qualified candidate. You may not be a good fit.

Correct.

And I see it so many cases where people hire off of the resume alone. And I am like, ugh. I mean, my assistant. Once again, we had someone that was unbelievably qualified woman, had a resume that, I mean, just read like a dream team. And we ended up not hiring her because the woman that we ended up hiring, I mean, I still talk with her to this day. Just a phenomenal human being. Got an amazing amount of stuff done. There were times where I'd be halfway through a sentence, and she's like, already working on it. What else do you want? Someone else may have a better resume, but, boy, let's go for that fit.

Exactly.

And she never said anything bad about any of her former employers.

That's always a good sign.

And she worked in fast food most of the time.

Okay.

So, yeah, it's. It's funny you say that, because I make a lot of those parallels. And the. When people talk about, like, probationary periods and stuff like that, it's tough because you are literally trying to figure out how, like, you're going to spend the rest of your life with this person.

Yeah. Theoretically. Not really. It's more like two years. Two to four.

Two to four. You should plan on spending the rest of your life with that person.

Okay, fine.

I mean, there's no. There's less paperwork involved, ideally. Right, right, right. As long as you do this correctly, there's less paperwork involved when there's a separation is. But to me, people don't spend enough time on looking at that. And they aren't intentional about looking at that.

No.

Like, hey, we need someone. You're someone. Come on aboard.

Yeah. So there's. There's two different aspects to it part, and I think we've talked about this before. I get frustrated with business owners that treat hiring like last call at the bar.

Oh, 100%.

Not going home lonely. So we're going to hire whoever has a pulse.

Yep.

Even you're there. You look. Do you want to. You want to work. You want to work here? Like, we're just going to hire you and then they're a hostage, and you're a hostage, and it doesn't work. The other thing is when people are so slow to hire and they are the slow boat to nowhere, and people are like. I keep. There's an example in Some of the things that when I'm teaching and doing things for business owners and kind of. I've done a couple of talks in the last couple of weeks. We talk about how you need to be a speedboat and not a cruise ship.

Ooh, I like that.

You are. Yes. Because you're competing against the rest of the market. And oftentimes if you're a small business, you're competing against larger employers. And they move fast because they have a set process. You have to be able to understand, is this person a culture fit? Are they taking the assessment? Let's have three series of interviews, but let's make sure we ask the right questions and then we don't hem haw over it. If this person is a fit, we're going to offer them the position, they're going to accept it, they're going to start working here, and if it doesn't work out in the first 30 days, we can say, you know what, this isn't great. Thank you for your time. You're just not a fit. Let's move on. Do not wait. If you think you've got a good person, I'm going to wait three more weeks and see if we get any more resumes. That person is gone. And now you're trying to figure out who you're going to hire and nobody's applying. Now the job market's made some changes in the last two months. We've seen a tremendous shift with people entering the market actively. The other thing I would say is if you're hiring for an entry level position and you're trying to hire someone who's never worked in your field, there are certain things that you're probably going to want to look for. So for if you're in sales, one of the things that you look for is team sports. Did they have any experience in team sports? Because they're used to a lot of things coming at them and they like to win. So if you're trying to hire somebody who is a true hunter in sales and they're like, competitive, Competitive. They have to be competitive. What did you like to do? I draw. Do you draw and like enter an art show? No, I just draw. I draw like, okay, you're gonna be in hr? Yes, draw. I'm like, okay, well, what else do you. I mean, like. But there's got to something where they excel. Can they compete in some way? You have to have some level of a competitive bone to be able to do true sales. Now if we're talking about consultative relationship, that may Be a little bit different but at the same time they still have to want to kill things like oh, 100%. So winning is a big deal.

100%. And it's, it's interesting when you dive into that because you can see some of those. It's the reason why you ask for other hobbies and things of that nature. What are these other people going to do? The other thing that I, that I want to make sure that we touch on is in so many cases, whether it's someone gets fired, someone leaves, whatever in a company.

Yeah.

That is an opportunity for you to move pieces around the board. Please don't. I mean I always like to put out two or three different types of job descriptions.

Yes.

Because maybe we want to pull someone from over here or over here that could be a good fit for that.

Yes.

And then we hire for something that's maybe more entry level and more common or don't. Because the other thing is too is there's so many cases where I see someone is in a job that they do okay at and you know, they'd probably be a rock star over here.

Yes.

And then. But so many people won't move them.

No. Intra movement is okay. It's okay to move in the organization and in some ways it can help with longevity because then you're cross training and they're learning how to do different things. So when you have that it's agility within your organization, it enables everybody to be able to move in different directions. I completely agree.

The thing that I love about that too is the more people understand about the business as a whole, the better they typically interact. Especially if you have even halfway decent of a culture. Because then they can be like, oh, well, I know that this kind of works this way because of this. Yeah. It just makes really, really, really good sense as far as structured interviews.

Yes.

I'd like to hear your take on that. Like is there a sheet that is just. These are the 10 questions we're asking.

It depends, it depends on the organization, it depends on the role, and it depends on the level of understanding and maturity of the people that are doing the interviews.

Sure.

If it is your first time or you're a new manager, we're going to give you this is how you do it.

These are nine questions. Good luck.

These answer. And we're probably going to have somebody in there shadowing to make sure that you're asking things the right way. Because there are certain things you cannot ask. But the other is, you know, what is the right thing for the role and some of like what you said with the example with your dad, some of it's relational and it's consultative and it's just kind of how do you react in a situation? But if you want to be able to have a clear understanding of the people that you're comparing, it really helps if you ask them all the same set of questions. Because then you're like, well, I don't know how candidate A answered that question because we didn't ask them. Did you ask them if they know how to sell insurance? Did you ask them if they're licensed? No. Well, you asked all these other ones, but that's a really important question. So I think it's really a good idea to have some standardized space and kind of like, you know, what are we going to ask for? Sure, if it's a more managerial role or if it's a more leadership role. Those are going to be more questions like, how are you going to solve this problem? And so I think in that opportunity, especially if you're hiring for CEO, executive director type level roles, those are more situational. This is a challenge that we're dealing with in this organization. Tell us how you would handle this. And for any of those CEOs, executives who may be looking for a job, and they're like, well, I don't want to give free consulting. No, that's what you do in the interview process. Your whole entire point is to sell them on the fact that you have a wide body of knowledge and you're going to be the person that they want to work with. So my feedback to that is don't be afraid to ask them. Ask questions back as a clarifier. So, hey, we're dealing with a major change in disruption within our industry and we're looking at introducing AI, but we're trying to figure out how this is going to be a culture fit within our organization. How would you, as the new CEO, work on building that within team dynamics? You go, well, give me a little bit of context. Are we dealing with highly technical people who are developers, or are we dealing with everyone within the organization who's at an entry level? And so you ask that clarifying question, it gives you the ability to answer in a different direction. Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense.

I just went on a tangent, so sorry.

No, no, no, no, that's great. And it's funny because you led me to something else that is for me, a huge red flag in interviews when they don't have any questions. Yes, I, I was Told one time I asked someone a question and they gave me a very direct answer, which was kind of, kind of an ugly answer. And we hired them. And I said, you kind of went on a limb with that answer. And when they said, they're like, yeah. And I said, what made you feel confident enough in doing that? They're like, look, if you didn't like that answer, I didn't want to work for you. And at that point I was like, oh, we found the right person.

Yes.

If people don't ask you questions in the interview, this should be a two way street.

Yes.

I'm gonna. Can I make another dating analogy?

Yeah.

Dating shouldn't be just an interview. It should be both people dialogue. Right. Dialogue. And both people answering questions. I have been in far too many interviews where it is literally, I mean, just them answer, asking me questions. And they say, okay, well do you have any questions? And when you answer, when you ask a question, they won't have an answer or they cut you off after the first one.

That's not a question, that's not an interview. That's an interrogation.

Correct. So make sure the people. In fact, I have often, just to put people a little bit off balance. What question? The first question I would ask for.

People questions do you have? Yes.

What questions do you have for us?

Yes.

Let them set the tone.

Yeah.

Which is, I'll be frank, that's scary as hell. When you're sitting in the inter. Like when you've asked me some questions already, I have a pretty good idea what you're looking to, what you're looking to hear when you say, hey, what questions do you have right off the bat, I'm going to sit there and be like, oh God, I got nothing to go off of.

Yeah. And a great question, especially if you're hiring for sales or upper left, upper level management. It is. You know, I'm sure you've been on our website, I'm sure you've done this. Tell us what, tell me what we do on the sales side. Tell me what we do. Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, what we do here? And if you're like, well, I don't really know, then you haven't done any homework. And if you haven't done any homework, you are not going to be a fit for us. And you're sure as crap not going to be in front of anybody. That's a prospect because you're not going to be able to talk. Like, you can't talk about that. You didn't do any research. I mean, when someone comes into an interview and they're like, I've learned. I was on your website and I saw this, and I saw this, and I saw this. And can you tell me, when do Ziva and Rocco come to visit? Because I can see that they're the AUI mascots. And I'm like, oh, you. Even if you spent 30 seconds, you can tell. Okay, we're. We're an organization that has dogs in the office. So. Okay. Like, that it means something. And so allow the people that you are interviewing to talk. Because the other thing that I see.

I know where you're going.

I know you do. Is that instead of letting the candidate talk, you're selling them on why they need to work for you. And it's like, stop it. They have already applied for the position. They're here. They at least know that they want to be within the range. And they're trying to figure out, are they a culture fit for where do they want to put themselves through the same trauma of training that you're going to put them through? So don't talk the whole time. Like, that's the awful part, too. On the dating side, like, I'm just going to talk all about me.

I have been in those interviews where I got. Instead of being asked questions about myself, I was just told about the company and how great it was most of the time.

Yeah.

And I went to work for two places like that, and both of them were absolute nightmares.

Yeah.

Just terrible. I was like, oh, yeah. No, shouldn't. Shouldn't have done the check. If they just. Yep. No check. Go ahead and check that off.

No, let it go.

I honestly think, and especially looking at, like, some of the points that we have sterile still on the sheet, we may end up someday doing a part two.

We're probably going to have to.

On the hiring, because this is. I mean, And. And to me, the. The reason why. And I was excited about this, but in the same sense, why we've started to dive into this so deep is just because of the fact this is the one thing that can make or break you. And it's kind of subtle.

It's extremely subtle.

It's not like cash flow where you look at the number and you're like, yes or no?

Yes.

This can have. There's some subtleties to it that if you do it wrong, it can really kick you in the teeth.

Well, and it's risky. I mean, hiring people is a risk. Is this person going to take care of the organization? And we Talk about with a lot of other entrepreneurs, your business is your baby. Your employees that you're hiring are the caretakers of that baby. And so you have to know, are they going to be a caretaker of the work that we do and the mission and the purpose and everything else? And if you don't think, if you wouldn't trust them alone, then that's probably not a good hire. If you don't see them at some point in time being able to be independent and watching your kid while you're going to the store, don't hire them, don't do it.

They show up in a white van.

No, no. And here's the other thing. If you get excited about, here's what I will tell you too. Because this has come to bite us or it has been a learning curve and it's something that you only make the mistake once is that if you go to hire somebody and in the initial through the offer letter, through the onboarding process, there are some red flags that come up. Like oh, they've got questions, they don't like your non compete, they don't want like you know, I really don't think I want to sign that. Then go, you know what, we're just going to pull our offer because this is. Or tell us why you don't like it. Well, I want to be able to work for somebody that does the exact same thing that you do at the same time. No.

Right?

No. And the fact that you asked, I'm like, you know what, we didn't screen well.

Right.

So same thing for sales. If they have a non compete ask to see it. You need to know what you are getting into because oftentimes people like, oh well my non compete doesn't touch anything. It might.

Yeah, no, they, you have to be careful. They had lawyers write that. Yes, Typically there's some, there's some teeth to it.

Yeah. They're coming from a large corporation and you're a small business. You want to make sure that you are not going to cause a problem because if you get a CDC and desist from a publicly traded company, they are not going to care. They're going to own you at the end of the day and you do not like it's well, I'll just risk it and if they sue me I'll deal with it later. Why? No, just again, open flame aerosol can. Why? Why are you going to do that? Don't be dumb. Don't make the same mistakes that other people have made and are telling you.

Don't do it just the anger on your face with that just to me tells me that, wow, we really poked the bear here today. Let's talk some key takeaways and advantages here. Actionable stuff. So encourage active participation from relevant team members. Get other people on board. Have a process.

Yes.

Don't just be like, you don't got.

A pulse or you want to come interview with me today. Like, hey, Judy, I know you're working on this client work and I know you are. You're not going to talk to this person ever. But come in the interview with me. Don't do that.

What's a couple of other key takeaways?

Take notes, pay attention in the interview. Actually listen to what the person's saying and then follow up.

Been through it where they're texting.

Gosh, like, don't, like, be as interested. I mean, and solicit feedback. Evaluate effectiveness of your hiring process. Because sometimes, like, if you have somebody come in and they've been there for, hey, tell us how the hiring process went for you. And they're like, it was awful. And they're like, okay, tell us more. How can we fix it? I mean, and then just, I mean, follow up.

I was about to say follow up is biggest one.

If you, if you're gonna hire somebody, great. Extend the offer. If you're not gonna hire that person, let them know. Don't ghost them like a bad dating app. Talk to them. Let them know they're not a fit. It's okay. Because the other thing is, if they're calling you going, I think I'd like to work her. I think, like, there is the other way around. They can be a stalker. And we've had that happen, actually, that was this week. And we're like, you're not going to work for us because you're creepy. You have literally connected with every person on LinkedIn in this organization, and you've messaged everybody that you want to work here. And you're not following the process of just going through the hiring manager. No.

Yeah. No. I'm all about creativity, but I am, too.

But there is a fine line between creativity and stalking. And that's not okay.

No, it's not. So what's one common one? This is going to be a quick shot. One common misconception about hiring efficiency that you would like to debunk.

It's a speedboat, not a cruise ship.

I like that. But I will turn that on its head a little bit.

Yeah.

Don't spend two hours hiring them and spend the next two years Trying to fire them.

Oh, no.

Spend the time or you spend. Do it quickly.

You spend two months hiring them and then two days training them. Don't do that either.

Gosh, I love that. Yeah, no, we've. We've all seen that happen too.

Yep.

Yep.

All right. What's the most surprising positive change you've seen in a business after they've overhauled their hiring culture?

To me, it was. We just. It was at the truck dealership. We got so much better people.

Yeah.

Because my assistant and I went to the hiring manager and said, here's four candidates. Not you go post the ad on. Indeed. You go do all this. They don't need to do that. Not to mention when you get marketing and HR talking together to work on that. Oh, my gosh. Does that. It's a big unlock because HR does not do a good job of write. They write HR job descriptions, not marketable job descriptions. And we'll have to talk about that some other time because that's the job descriptions 1. Because I think that's another great one. That'll. Yes. That all being said, thank you for joining us. As always, more resources. All of the episodes@businessfix podcast.com find us on all the socials. The Business fix. Leave us a review like share with all of your business friends that you feel need to get beaten over the head with these items. And then. Yeah, we haven't. We haven't decided on the next topic yet. No, we'd love to hear your suggestions. That being said, do me a favor, take care of yourself. Can take care of someone else too. We will see you very, very soon.