Say Goodbye to Toxic Employees Before They Destroy Your Team Dynamics

Neither one of us does long goodbyes, but sometimes it is difficult to get to the point of saying goodbye. Is that an accurate statement?

Yeah, I think it can be. The Midwest goodbye, Is that what you're talking about? Where nobody ever leaves?

The problem is, is a lot of business owners do that in their business with their people. With their people.

Oh, yeah.

You and I are not known for that. So today I think it is a good topic for us to talk about to be like, how to get to the point where you're like, you out.

Yes.

That's what we're gonna talk about this week. Stay tuned. She's the CEO.

He's the marketing and operations guy.

If it's broken, you need the business fix. So we're gonna talk about goodbyes. But before that, let's say hello.

What are you excited about?

What am I excited about? So I have to go first this time. So this is really going to throw things off to me. First off, I'm excited. This is episode 11 for us. So we've made it past that 10. That.

Is that where most podcasts die?

No, most podcasts died at episode 15. So we've got like. So we've got a little ways to go yet, but I do not as much fun as we're having with this and the response that everyone out in the audience has given us.

We have a couple fans, like two or three.

Yeah, Correct.

That aren't ourselves.

The text message that you sent to me the other day was amazing because I sent you the thing saying, hey, we've reached a certain level of downloads and you're like, awesome. Our cousins are listening too, to me. That's what I'm excited about. That's what I'm excited about. Now that I have taken that away from you, what are you excited about?

I'm excited about the weekending. Been one of those, like, dumpster fire weeks when people are like, you look like you have everything together. I'm like, oh, if you only knew.

Yeah, no, I. I look like it.

Uhhuh. Between, like, flat tires and, you know, we talking about goodbyes, Goodbyes we've had to deal with and hellos we're trying to happen that are not. And you know, all the things I think people forget when you run an HR company, you still have to do HR too, for your organization. And so, yeah, they think, like, everything's perfect in your organ. Like, not today.

Sure. Because we have to make it look that way.

Absolutely.

Yeah. So we're going to talk about when it's time to Say goodbye.

Yeah, okay.

I've got some stats here that as soon as you looked at him, you're like, I call bullshit. Like, one toxic employee could cost your business an estimated $12,000 in annual turnover is 1,000 at that. We saw that. I think first off, it's crap, right? I mean, that's low. I mean that's, that's just the base. And like, if you figure this out quickly and get rid of them quickly.

Do you only have one employee? That's my other question. Like you're only. That's, that's, that's it.

Oh, sure, sure. The next one that I saw too was one. One toxic client can do just as much damage. We're going to focus on the employee side of it. But yes, toxic customers can do the same thing. I think we're going to. We may do toxic custom. A separate episode, please. So, yeah, there's that. And then Hogan. Hogan assessments.

Okay.

They estimated US corporations could save a staggering 292 billion in 2025 by avoiding toxic hires.

That's a stat. I agree with.

Same. I agree with that one too. About 6% of the global workforce can be categorized as toxic.

I think that's low.

I was about to say, I think they just have the decimal point wrong there.

It's possible. I mean, it's not. And sometimes it's not. The. It's the person. It's. They're not in the right spot. Sometimes it's not the right seat.

100% and 100. What's. What's interesting to me about this is when. And this is why I kind of want to talk about when it's time to say goodbye. Because to me, if someone ever left any place where I met. I don't want to say I took it personally, but I always looked at it as is my fault. Either A, I didn't hire the right person or B, we moved them into a position that wasn't right for them. I mean, there's sometimes where people just don't show up or whatever their life situation changes, where you're like, okay, maybe you get a mulligan every once in a while. But overall. So for. From your perspective, because you see the hirings and firings and I see the SM smile come up on your face as they start to get into this. You're like, oh, yeah, talk about this.

Yes.

What's the biggest blind spot you see that businesses have?

Well, I think it's. There's several. But I said biggest. You said biggest. They're all big.

So when, when it comes time to say goodbye.

Yeah.

What is that top blind spot that is just like this is the glaring. Because there's one that's, that's gotta be bigger.

Well, because leaders often rationalize and ignore toxic behavior. So they get to that point where it's, they, they hope it's gonna resolve itself. And then that biggest blind spot is when it's, it's saying goodbye is last resort. And it's not, you need to look at saying goodbye with people in your organization as a strategic intervention. It's, they look at it as, oh, but we really wanna save them. We really think that they can do it. And it's like, guys, every day, every minute a toxic employee stays, it's eroding morale and it's eroding productivity. And that means that you're losing money. So if you look at it instead of being just like feelings but look at it as dollars, I mean, that cost of inaction far outweighs the discomfort of a difficult conversation. And that's where I'm like amazed. Like people were burn. I feel like they're literally lighting cash on fire because they just don't want to have a sweaty 10 minute conversation.

It's like, come on, I love how you describe that.

Well, they will. And then what frustrates me too is you're lighting money on fire. But then if you do not move that toxic employee out of your organization, you are going to lose the people that you really care about and that drive your organization forward. And they're going to leave because of toxicity. They're not going to leave because of money. They're not going to leave because they don't like the work. They're going to go to your competitors and love their job because they're not having to deal with this jerk that you won't fire and it's all your fault.

I want to address the resolve itself thing.

Yes.

It doesn't happen.

No.

It's like that rattle in your car. You can turn the radio up for a little while, but eventually that rattle is going to get louder than your radio.

It is. And praying that Mary gets hit by a bus so she doesn't come to work tomorrow is not okay. That's not an acceptive employee development strategy. It's not okay.

And you know what? The thing is, is we've all been there. None of us wish any harm upon anyone.

Yes, but.

You could be hopeful for that bus too.

You can. But if you're the, if you are the, if you are the owner of the organization. And you are getting ready to walk into your office and you're like, you know, I really hope that George is sick today. That should be a red flag warning to you that you really don't think George is doing a good job. And you. Unless George is absolutely amazing and he overwhelms you and you just don't have energy, that's different. But if you're saying, I really hope this person isn't here today because I don't want to deal with them because they drain my energy, they're not the right person, and it's time to say goodbye.

I love that. And it's funny because there's always that tipping point.

Yeah.

And the problem is, for so many people, that tipping point comes way too late. I think we were having a discussion about a client that we decided not to pick up. And there was a point where I was just like, I am dreading this phone call now. If I am dreading for a phone call for a client that we haven't even started with, I should not be working with them.

No red flag.

Oh, there was a lot of them in the ground. And I mean, this is just a couple of weeks ago where, I mean, lots and lots of red flags. But I'm like, forge onwards. We do it the same with our employees. We do it with internal stuff because we're like, look, we're fine. We can handle this.

Yes.

No, I.

Especially as small business owners. And I have said this before, and I mean, and it is not. It is not to poke at religion, but there are times where I've looked at people and said, you are not Jesus and you cannot save everyone. You can't do it. So if it's not working, it's time to say goodbye because, well, what if I coach them this way? Have you given them all the expectations? Have you communicated effectively? Well, yes. Okay. Have you documented? You've got six pages of documentation that they just do not care. They are giving you the middle finger with their attitude, or they're not listening, or they're not retaining, or sometimes they're just not the right person. Say goodbye. Give them the exit. Because sometimes the best thing that you can do for somebody is to give them an opportunity somewhere else. You don't need to hold them as a hostage. Stop trying to save them and stop trying to keep them as a hostage. Let them go so everybody else in the organization can continue to thrive and grow. And you're going to. Your organization will be better as a result. There was.

There was a time I was on the receiving end of a goodbye that was far overdue. It was an organization that I went to work at that we shared very different values. Just different core values.

Yeah.

And when they. They, at least when they let me go, they said, look, we're going to give you a month and a half's worth of severance. So that way, I mean, that was their way to say goodbye. Like, hey, this. It's not you, it's me. Whatever. It doesn't matter. They said goodbye, and we don't want to just shove you off the cliff. You can do that in a way that's not just goodbye. Punt.

Yes.

And in giving someone severance, that's not admitting anything.

No.

It's not saying there's any wrongdoing. There's not that. That's not doing anything like that. It is just saying goodbye and letting you feel okay about it.

Yes. If you're going to have guilt, then you can always work with severance. We do work with clients where there are times where, like, we want to pay them severance, we're like, absolutely not. But if you really, really need it to make yourself sleep at night, fine. That doesn't mean that it's deserved.

Sure.

Sometimes you just have to think through what is the right way. And sometimes severance is a way to strategically get that business owner to let go, too. We're like, okay, if you don't. If you're afraid that they're not going to be able to move forward and find a job quickly, then let's do this. But at the same time, Josh, there are times where people forget that unemployment is a thing. When you let people go, they do have the ability to file for unemployment. So it's like, no, I'm kicking them out and they're going to be homeless. I'm like, first of all, they're adults. Most of them, because you're employed, most of most people are employing adults. If you're employing children, we can talk about that in a different way. But you've just got to give them an opportunity to be adults, and that's okay. You hired them with the expectation that they were going to do the job, they didn't do the job, or it's just not working, and that's okay, too. So let's just move on.

There's always the times where, look, you've done everything that you can. And it's funny because we've already talked about. Because this week is goodbye.

Yes. And I struggled with this because you sent this goodbye. This is what we're gonna talk about. I'm like, we already talked about terminations. Because I equate. When I wanna say goodbye to somebody, it's quick. It's like, they're gone.

It's worth four minutes. The ink is not even dry.

No.

And they are the door.

But that's because I, I used to be so, like, I can save everybody. And I agree. I am not that person anymore. Because it has hurt. I've watched it hurt our organization. I've watched it hurt other organizations. I've watched it hurt me. And now I know. Learn from my experience and my trauma.

Yeah. It's what. And what's so funny about it is, is that people, we Both went through 10,000 small businesses. And when they have you do that, that exercise where there's the disciplinarian piece and then there's the, hey, you have to let someone go.

Yes.

In watching that disciplinarian piece, I watch so many people like, hey, you're a great person. We really love you here, but we just need you to tune things up a little bit. And I'm like, oh, my God, everyone else in the company is hating you and that person.

Yeah.

And they're going to give it. I mean, if they see this person is not doing well and yet they're still there, I mean, I'm just going to live up to the expectation you have for them.

Exactly. Exactly. You are going to get poor performance from more people because you're breeding mediocrity and you're telling everybody else you are. That you don't matter. I appreciate all the work that you do and that you go above and beyond and you live in our core values. But I'm also keeping this person that says our core values don't matter and they don't care about our organization. So what message does that send to the individuals that are actually doing good work? Like, well, I'll just pay them more. I'll give them the bonus. But no, no, no, no, no, no. You can. But how about you just get rid of the person that they don't want to come to work with either? Because think about it. If you don't want to go to work because someone is in your organization and they are a drain on you, can you think about the fact that as the entrepreneur or the business leader, you may not be in the organization nearly as much time as your employees are spending with that other person sitting.

Next to that person that is loudly chomping or what?

You're a hostage. There's no comparison to the person that has to share a cubicle with them. So the other thing that I would say, too, that can be a really great warning is if your employees are brave enough or feel comfortable enough to tell you, hey, I've got an issue. I've tried to work it out with this person, or I don't think this person's performing. Could you listen to them? Don't tell them that they're crazy. Don't say, eh, I'll talk to them, or it's not a big deal. Or look at them as being complainers. Like, actually think about, is this person giving me feedback that I really need to consider. Especially if you're talking about people that have been with your organization for a long time and there's a major shift and they feel comfortable talking to you, it doesn't mean that you're going to have a revolving door of people because Joe just doesn't like anybody and nobody can sit in his cubicle because they touch a stapler. There's got to be a difference. But you got to trust them. Actually listen to the people that you work with because they will give you good feedback.

I have, I have a stapler.

Yes.

At the Boston. And they. Yeah, right, exactly. Nonetheless. So what I. Here's the question that I really want to get into with this, because this is where as a business owner, you have to make that gray line, that fuzzy line. I guess I say you have to, you have to sharpen that line up.

Yes.

So many people, like everyone is because of Instagram now everyone thinks that they are a mental health Expert. They're not 100% agree with you. I mean, it's. I, I. We've had people approach us to say, hey, I want to do a mental health podcast because I've been in therapy for seven years. Well, maybe that's not the best idea, but backtracking here. So many people are so quick to call other people toxic. They are so quick to call someone else a narcissist.

Yes.

And it's like, okay, you don't like them. That doesn't mean that they're toxic. That doesn't mean that they're a narcissist. What, what are some of the things that you look at to say, okay, this person is toxic for my organization? And when I say toxic, I mean, like I said, some people throw the term toxic around without really a definition to it.

Yes. That means I don't like them.

Right.

Toxic means I just don't like you.

Right. 90% of the time. 90% of the time. That means that. So when. What is. What are the things that you're looking at where you realize that this person is causing damage to my organization? Because when we're talking business, they have to be damaging the organization as a whole to be kind of like, I mean, let's face it, there's poison in the pool here.

Yeah.

What are some of the things that make that person poison to the pool?

Okay, the first one's easy. It's performance. Are they doing the things that you need them to do? Are they meeting expectations? Are they following the SOPs? Are they following procedure? Doing all the things? Are they working in the org? So performance is the first. The second is, are they aligning with your values? So we have. At AUI and Clarity, we have four values. Service, excellence, community, and teamwork. When someone says, I don't see any value in anything that we could possibly do in the community, that's a red flag. When they start saying, I don't see any value in anything that we would do in the community. And I don't want to volunteer my time. And I really don't want to spend time with that person doing that thing. We're like danger. Will Robinson, you are now the red.

Flag is halfway up the pole.

Yes, you are an assault to our culture. And so it's those things. And if they're starting to say things in a way that they don't align with other people, and those other people are starting to. To get prickly, it's not about this person calls. They do their outbound outreach this way, and this person does it this way. Like, they do it at 5 o' clock and this person does it at 8 o'. Clock. It's like, it doesn't matter some of those things. So it's really about performance. Then it's about perception and how they align with your culture. And then after that, then it becomes the series of behaviors. Are they doing the things and showing up? If they're not performing and they're not aligned in culture, then chances are they're going to be toxic and they're going to be that. Those are the two things that I think, to me, really make them that way. Or if they're thinking about, how can I create drama? There's sometimes, there's always those people in organizations that like drama. So you've got to kind of see, like, are they a feeder? Or are like, are they an amplifier? Are they a creator? And see if there are things that they are doing that can be coachable. Because the other Part is that oftentimes we're very quick to label somebody as toxic and a non performer. But if we didn't clarify it expectations for them, if we didn't explain what the job is, if we didn't explain this is how our organization works and this is how we, we live our core values, then it may just be misunderstanding. So you can't label somebody until you've got true proof, which is why documenting is important.

You, you've mentioned documentation a few times throughout the first 11 episodes here.

Yes. And mental documentation too. It doesn't have to be on a piece of paper every time or like on a stone tablet. It can just be the mental like, okay, I've checked in with this person. They seem to be retaining information, but they seem to really not like the word teamwork. And so we're going to dig into that. Why is that? Because I didn't explain it or is that because they just don't like to work in teams, which for us is a problem?

Sure, I get that. No one and no one uses teams. Oh, you mean working with other people.

Working with other people, not just the Microsoft thing.

Yeah. Okay, good. What I, what I find so interesting with it too is I found a, a very easy tool to distinguish between the person that is, I guess I would say the toxic complain. Yeah. And the person that's just trying to fix things is asking for the specific instance. What is so good? What, what is the one specific? When they say, well, they're just difficult to work with. Okay, well can you, can you give me some specific examples of why they've been difficult to work with? Well, they just are. Okay, well guess who's the toxic one here?

And some of that may be coaching too. If the person doesn't, if you are working with individuals that it's their first time managing, oftentimes it's easy for them to go, they're toxic or they're difficult. And it's not necessarily because that person is, it's because they don't know how to coach them.

Correct.

And part of what you're doing as the business leader or as the leader of leaders is teaching those middle level managers how to lead and how to ask questions and how to train and develop. So oftentimes I feel like there's miscommunication. And so to me, 50% of toxicity that we define as toxicity can be alleviated by clarifying expectations and creating a roadmap and building relationships and just teaching people how to talk to one another.

I wholeheartedly agree with that because you get so many times where. When you really dive into that stuff, so much of it is miscommunication. And the last thing that you want to do is say, okay, this person's difficult to work with when really you're just talking to them in a language that they don't understand or it's different, it's needs different clarification or whatever. When you. I know it's 30 seconds from the time you say, I think this person needs to go from the time that that happens to the time that they are out the door. What are. I mean, I know you talked the values. Those other pieces. There's usually a straw that breaks the camel's back, though. There's. There's not. You don't. You. You hear something once and you think maybe the spidey sense has tingled a little bit.

Yeah.

But for the most part, there's typically just one thing where you're like, oh, crap. What is the most common one thing that makes you say, oh, yep, this is. This is it.

When I realize that they don't want to be coachable. That's to me, it just like. Because you're like, just one. You're telling me, pick one. I'm like, well, there's one, someone's lied. There's one, someone's done this. There's one. But it's really when I realized that they are not. They don't have the capacity to be coached, to make change. That's it.

It's funny about you. My. Mine is almost identical.

Yeah.

Mine is. As soon as I say, let's sit down and talk about this and the conversation sounds like you're arguing with someone, that just doesn't. I guess I would say they don't listen at all in the argument and they want to be right. They don't want to be constructive. So when I get to that point where I'm like, look, let's talk through this. And there's times where I mean, look, you know me well enough that I'm going to. If I'm going to show up to.

An argument, I will bring my best self.

Not only that, we'll throw down, bring numbers, bring instances, bring. I mean, bring everything.

Yeah.

Because I'm going to. I'm going to do my research. I'm going to have stuff to back up every single thing that I'm saying. And I'm not going to speculate on stuff. Here's what happened. This is what I exactly know. And if someone isn't willing to listen to that then I'm like, okay, well, this is the time for me where I got to say, well, okay, we're not. We can't have the discussion. Yeah, I'm out.

I have one that is. I would say it's a straw of if somebody does this, it's not a, you need to let them go. It's something I think leaders have a misperception about. If somebody tells you, no, no, I'm not going to do that, or no, I don't feel comfortable with that, that is not a, I need to get rid of you immediately. Right. And I think sometimes for like, for leaders that sometimes don't have a level of maturity or a higher level of emotional intelligence, you should be able to understand that in the military we call it redlining. There's someone who is supposed to be there that is going to be the reason. Like, this is why this won't work. This is why this won't work. This is why this person can be very valuable in your organization. Especially if they're willing to tell you, I don't know that this is going to work and here's why. Or they may say, you want to do this as the visionary, but that's against the general core values and the purpose and the mission of what we've been doing. That's gonna take us in a completely different direction. Do you wanna go that way right now? Like, no. Like there's a right way to say it. So not looking at that person as just being obstinate and not being willing to move forward in the organization, I would say, you know, when somebody tells you no as the leader, my question is, why? Cause there's been times where Julie's come to me and she's like, chrissy, we're not doing this. And I'm like, why? And then she explains, and I'm like, yeah, we can't do that.

Right.

That's the other thing. You can't be the expert all the time. And if you're going to be a know it all, then nobody should work for you.

Contrarian is good willingness to discuss, has to be included with. That is when you don't get that is. I mean, we. I've had numerous employees in other capacities where I would say, look, this needs to happen this way because of other things going on in the company. They'd be like, no. And I'd be like, well, okay, why do you see it that way? When I would say that, they would come back with, well, no, this is just what I'm doing.

That's different.

You can do that someplace else.

Yes, that's different.

You cannot do that here.

We're not talking about discussion here. We're talking about. We've had the discussion. We've all made the decision. There's been the nos and then it's still the. You're not gonna make me do it. That's when we're like, oh, goodbye now. We're not coachable.

Now we don't have to. We don't have to worry about that. So here's a piece that I was kind of excited to get to because I think this is gonna be awkward as hell for both of us.

Okay.

There's the emotional hurdles. Being completely unemotional as we are. And when we get to a point, we realize that. And it's funny because, I mean, both of us are caring people.

Very.

We realize that you have to be harsh in some cases. You have to be direct. Direct is kind.

Yes. To be clear is kind.

Yeah. Direct is kind of. Some people that they. I mean, you're spending some years. You're spending time with these people.

Yes.

These people work for you.

Yes.

Oftentimes you're spending more time with them than you are your spouse.

Absolutely.

You probably want to spend more time with them than you do your kids, even though they're the toxic depend how.

Old your kids are.

So let's talk about some of these emotional hurdles.

Yeah.

Like the first piece of advice that I had was just suck it up, buttercup.

That's exactly right.

You, you will. Once you get. Once you get past this and realize that, yes, you do it once and you realize, okay, this just needs done. I'm going to do this.

Yes.

Now don't go bananas firing everyone in your company.

No. Don't over empower yourself. Right.

That's a whole nother set of problems. But to me, it's that, look, just suck it up, be clear, be kind. Done.

Yes.

What's one of your. What's one of your go to suggestions on, like, how to get past the emotional piece? Because you talked about it years ago. There was that emotional. Are they going to be okay?

Yeah. And there's that part. But then as you, as you season yourself in business, I think part of it is you start to realize how much it actually costs you. So it's a series of questions for me that tend to be more direct, especially when I'm working with a business owner who's got that emotional tie of like. But you don't understand. I'm like, no, I do understand. But do you like pain and losing money?

Not exactly. I mean, well, I'm a business owner, so yes.

I mean, but do you like, do you like it when somebody else does it as opposed to it being your dumb idea?

No, that's a different conversation.

Exactly. Do you like putting your business at risk? People that are not living in your culture and values, that aren't treating your organization and the people in your organization with mutual respect. You're creating a hostile work environment. You're creating a space where your, your business is subject to, to legal liability. So do you like putting your business at risk and do you like. I mean, I would say it's a pretty easy. Like you say, suck it up, buttercup. And I'm like, do you like spraying that can of hairspray next to an open flame? Because that's what you're doing when you're refusing to deal with an employee that is truly toxic and causing problems. Because their toxicity is going to breed to your fellow coworkers, it's gonna breed to the team, it's gonna breed to your clients, it's gonna breed out, and then that's gonna be your brand. Do you want that toxicity to be your brand? You've probably spent a good amount of time trying to figure out who you are as a business leader. They're taking it and they're throwing all sorts of nasty things on it. I just, I don't wanna swear, trying not to. This is one of those moments. Don't do it, Chrissy.

Well, it's the other piece that we talk about is you present the refined side of things. Maybe slightly less so to me. The thing that I find interesting too is what some people have a difficult time getting over is the short staffed.

Oh, shut up. Piece of that, like, stop it.

Well, and what I find so interesting about it is oftentimes when that toxic person gets booted, everyone else is willing to step up to the plate.

They're excited, right?

They're like, hell yes, let's get to work, let's get some stuff done. The other thing that I say is too, is why are you running your entire organization so lean that getting rid of one person would cripple it.

Exactly.

If that is your worry, you've got other problems that you need to look at and you should look at them while you're saying goodbye to this person.

It is, and I think it's also understanding your metrics. So for example, if you've got someone who, like this, we'll just keep round numbers, $100,000. But they cost you $80,000 in employee costs, and they're painful to deal with, but you're only generating $100,000 worth of revenue. Look at that as a $20,000 problem that you can go out and fix with business development. So you could lose it, but you're not going. It's addition by subtraction. So it's really important that you're looking at the whole picture, because I think oftentimes we look at it as vein of work. Well, do you actually know what that person is doing and with what they're doing because they're being so toxic, you're probably getting 20% of the work value that you should be. I can't tell you, Josh. I would love to say that it was like, it's been long past in my history as a CEO, but there have been times where we've terminated someone. And I'm walking back in there and somebody's like, I'm really glad you did that finally. And I'm like, well, why didn't you tell me? Why didn't you tell me that person wasn't doing. Yeah, it's like all the things. It happens all the time in hr. Like, all the things filter up of like, well, did you know that this person was doing this on their breaks and was running this business and was doing this, and they weren't listening and they weren't like. It's like, could you just. Can we create a culture where everybody tells everybody things? Like, can we talk about when we have non performers? Same thing with managers. I think it's really important that you empower your managers to be able to say goodbye to people, but you also encourage them to understand that it's okay to make that decision, and they don't have to make that decision with you and they don't need your approval all the time. Because I think there are times where they will hang on to people longer than they should simply because, you know, God forbid.

You brought up one more thing that I want to touch on before we start summarizing some of this stuff here.

Okay.

When you fire that person. Yes, you may. You made just a great point. Because typically when you fire the toxic person. I know. I mean, for me personally, I know every single thing that goes on in my business every day, all the time, 100%. Because, you know I'm perfect.

Yes. I'm not.

When that person leaves, you find out that, okay, the. The 20% ding in productivity thought you were getting out of them is actually a 60 or 70% ding.

Yeah.

It's just one of those things where you don't realize all the stuff that was going sideways because of them, that they weren't doing, et cetera. Because you think, oh, well, if I lose them, I lose 20% of my productivity. But you're probably gonna gain 40% out of the rest of the people. Because they aren't. Like the computer system isn't constantly being fed stuff from eBay and YouTube or they're not presenteeism.

You're dealing with presenteeism because they're annoyed that that person's still there. So they're not even focused on their job. They're hiding in the bathroom because they don't want to deal with that person. Or they're in a meeting room talking about that person with somebody else and nobody's getting their work done. Productivity can soar. When you get rid of a toxic person, your team usually rallies and appreciation.

They rally. And like I said, you don't realize the fact that that person, the 20% of the stuff you thought they were doing might only be like 3 or 4%.

Correct.

Yeah. To wrap up a couple of key takeaways, prioritize your team's wellbeing.

Yeah.

Make sure that people make sure they still want to come back to work. I get to say this one.

Yay.

Documentation.

Yes.

But that's because it's the process side for me. It's the process side.

Ye.

You're not going to necessarily be able to calculate the hidden cost, but plan on calculating the hidden cost later. Don't delay. Act, act now. Don't act now. Don't delay. And seek support from first off mental health professionals. But should we plug Clarity HR in here?

Pick your HR person. If you're terrified of terminating people or learning how to say goodbye, an HR person will help you. All of my people are great at it. That's. I mean, honestly, Josh, 90% of our clients come to us because they don't know how to do that. And so we help them with it.

Sure.

It's okay.

You guys are pros.

Yes.

Do you walk around with an axe?

No. And I like people at times are like, are you guys like the grim reapers? It seems like every time somebody hires you, you fire a whole bunch of people. That is not true. It's just oftentimes when you clarify expectations, people, they will either rise to the level that they need to or they will walk out the door. And it's okay if they walk. So I've got four steps to confidently saying goodbye. Are you ready for Them.

I am.

All right, number one, and we talked about it, is to define what's toxic. And knowing that toxic, in my perception of toxic, may not actually be the real level of toxic. So define that again. I'm gonna say it is to act with intent and documentation.

Number two, did we mention documentation?

Documentation. It's really important. The third is to lead with the empathy of the many, not just the person that is causing the issue for you, but think about how it impacts the rest of your team. And that fourth is to really embrace the opportunity. Just do it. It's okay.

Just do it.

You're gonna be fine.

So what is, like, our quick shots that we're gonna end with? What's the most surprising positive change you've seen in a business after they finally let go of a toxic employee?

Productivity soars. Really? Yeah, doubles.

Interesting. Yeah, interesting.

Yeah. What about you? What's a common misconception about firing that.

Employee you'd like to debunk that it sucks? I don't want to say it's fun to do.

No.

But as soon as it's over, you're like, oh, my God, I feel amazing.

Yes.

You're like, this is going to suck for the next six months. No, it only sucks for the next six months if you keep them there, if you let them go. It's the. What is it? 10 minute sweaty conversation.

It's a 10 minute sweaty conversation you don't want to have. And for us, it's more like 10 seconds. But 10 minutes, like, it's. Just make the decision, figure it out, and get. And I'm not saying, like, as soon as, you know, I'm terminating this person, they're gone. Like, you need to actually put your ducks in a row. That's why HR is helpful. But let it go.

Yeah. No, that. To me, it's the. You feel so much better afterwards. You think it's gonna. You're just gonna spend the next week at your desk mourning this person? No. No. Typically, by the time their tail lights are outta sight, you're like, okay, let's move on.

Yeah. And then you look at things past in a couple weeks, and you're like, that person worked here. It feels like it's been forever.

Yeah, I remember them.

Yeah.

Maybe you set up a tombstone outback with all that being said. Thank you, everyone, for listening. Chrissy, always your insights. This is a tough but crucial topic. You guys obviously have the experience. You show up, you drop the ax. And yes, that's not all you do. I get that.

No, it's not, but it's a lot.

Make sure you find more recess, more wow, more resources. You can go get all the past episodes go to businessfix podcast.com all the socials at the Business Fix. Leave us a review. Subscribe all the stuff that every podcast guest is going to ask you for. Also make sure you go look at Clarity HR for all your HR questions next week. You said goodbye to someone?

Yes.

So we are talking about hiring and not just hiring. Hey you, can you do the thing? Hiring for culture, finding the right fit beyond, beyond the resume.

Nice.

You don't want to miss it. Do me a favor. Take care of yourself. If you can, take care of someone else too, we will see you very soon.

You're gone. Next person.