Agency Ignite: Supporting Women Creatives | Marian Saint

People don't love processes because it holds them accountable to actually having something repeatable. And if you think about, if you don't, if you're not repeating the same exact thing, you can't measure it. You can't see how effectively it's working. You can't delegate. And so you're really so in the business, you haven't stepped out of it to be that manager. But it's also a little bit scary because you also have to pick something. And I'm only saying this too, whenever I say stuff, it's always from like, well, I've experienced that and I've experienced that. No judgment here.

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Welcome to another edition of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in San Marcos, California. Thank you. Have an awesome day. Joining me today is Marian Saint of Agency Ignite. Welcome, Marian.

Thank you, Christian. Super excited to be here and talk a little bit more about business and all those things.

Well, yes, I had the benefit of doing some research before the show and went to your website, learned a little bit more about what you do. But why don't you tell the audience the, the brief version of what Marian Staint does and what Agency Ignite does? Absolutely.

So I, I'll go back a little tiny bit. So I went back to school, got my MBA. I started working in the corporate consulting area. I was doing consulting with insurance agency owners, really enjoyed it, but also felt like, you know, these people are all a little older than me. They have more experience. I mean, I went to school, I know what they need to do to make their business better, but I really feel like I need something on the side to kind of bring more value to these agent, to these insurance agents. So I started getting into photography during that time, started working on building my studio up around that. Um, obviously different industry from insurance, but it did give me some hands-on experience that I was able to bring back to the insurance agency owners, really around sales and marketing type of stuff.

So you were a hobbyist photographer, or, or was that just something you— a new skill to learn?

Part— so originally I started photography just for the creative aspect. I just wanted to take better pictures. I'd always wanted to do it, never took the time time to learn, wanted to take better pictures of my family. I was lucky and I got connected with some other really business-minded photographers. They're like, you can do this, but don't burn yourself out being a shoot-and-burn photographer. Um, you, if you're, if you're going to do anything and accept money, you probably should give people a better experience. And that's when I saw the opportunity, like, oh, I could, I could test some ideas out. I could work some nights and weekends and I could kind of explore this. But I didn't really imagine that it was going to be my full-time position or anything. I always said, I'm never going to be an entrepreneur. I always want to work corporate. And surprise, surprise, here we are.

Interesting. Why, why, why did you say that to yourself?

Because it's scary. It's scary to go out on your own. You know, you have all the freedom and you also have all the responsibility. And I didn't really want that initially until I was like, you know what, I can actually do it. So maybe I should try.

And now would you go back and work for a corporate job?

Only if they gave me a lot of freedom and I could pick my projects. So I don't know, maybe not. Yeah. Like, I think the idea of, of somebody telling you what you need to work on and how you want to spend your time, that's where I kind of, and even during my corporate time, I worked remotely. I set my own schedule. I was just very independent. And so I think that's what a lot of people are drawn to with entrepreneurship is that they want to choose how they spend their time and their life. With that comes different responsibilities.

Yeah, but there certainly is that fear factor. I think we all experience it when we, when we make that decision to do it. But then on the other side of it, it's like you see things differently and you understand that Being in, in a corporate environment where you're an employee or a contractor, it doesn't really matter, but there are risks there of getting downsized, uh, fired, not being able to do what you want to do, uh, constricted by the job. But you don't necessarily see that until you're on the other side of it and you're like, oh, correct. Yeah. So anyway, you're doing consulting with insurance agents and, uh, you decide to get into photography. Then what happened?

Then, um, so I still working on the leadership track, doing really well with State Farm, and then eventually Allstate recruited me over, moved into even a bigger leadership role. Definitely, you know, had the company car, was having a lot of different successes in that. Um, but ultimately I felt like I was really splitting my time and I was still really beholden to doing the right thing by the company, trying to grow my business. I, it felt a little split ethically. So in 2020, Allstate did a big restructuring and my position was changing a lot and I was going to have to move. And so I decided, you know what, it's time to take photography full-time. I think, and I always say too, I'm sure you, you hear this also, running your own business is like the biggest personal growth and development journey you can take because you're really working on building your confidence. And so finally built my confidence, went full-time with photography at the end of 2020.

Um, I want to pause. I'm sorry, I interrupt a lot. You said the confidence. So was that a confidence in skills, or was it a confidence in like, they're going to be people that actually pay me for this, or confidence of the additional skills you'd need? Like, so what, what specifically was the confidence that, that you, you obtained?

A little bit of both. So at that point in time, I had gotten my systems into place. I felt, I had felt for a while that my photography was up to speed, but I had the systems in place. I had one team member that was working for me on a part-time basis, booking clients in. I was able to a little bit more show up and do the work that I needed to, and I had more space to manage the business. So really coming, that was what I felt. And then I also had the confidence. I knew what I was doing. I knew how to get a, obtain clients. I knew how to nurture them and take care of them and give them a good experience. And so a lot of those pieces were set into place. I had some money in savings. It felt safe to do.

Right. Okay. All right.

Proceed. So then, thank you. Thank you, Sarah. Did still in 2022, I moved my studio out of Hawaii where I was born and raised, and then I moved to Dallas, Texas, where I am now. So that was a really, really big shift and change.

It's a slight culture shock.

It's been good. So Texas is so business friendly and Hawaii is beautiful, but it's, it's very different. And so it was time for a change. Um, and I thought more opportunity, you know, more, I can do more road trips. I can travel a little bit more time to go, but it was, I had to rebuild the business up from scratch. And one of the things that I did too, when I got here is I moved from doing primarily family and pet photography into doing a lot of women's boudoir photography. So that was a giant shift.

My personal favorite.

I'm shocked. Yeah, it's been really cool though, because I have so many women that cry when they see their pictures. They want to have a fun time, they want to feel beautiful, they, they want to feel empowered, and I get to be able to work with them and give all that to them. And be a small part of their journey to just becoming the best version of themself that they want to be.

I've been married 31 years and I have two adult daughters, and it's given me an interesting perspective on women that I didn't have because I grew up with, uh, all boys, uh, and all male cousins. And my dad had two brothers and my grandfather had two brothers. So my sister who's 11 years younger than I am, was the first woman, first girl born in 3 generations. So I didn't know anything about women before I had daughters. Um, all that to say that body image, confidence in their own beauty, uh, is, is something that I see every woman struggle with regardless of how beautiful they are objectively or not. Like, they still don't feel beautiful. And I was thinking when I was looking at your portfolio, like, these are just average women, right? These are not models.

These are not— 100%, no.

But they look beautiful, right? I think the most beautiful thing is, is that they feel beautiful. If they don't feel beautiful, it's, it's like, I don't know, that, that real beauty can't shine through. What do you think?

I'm 100 million percent. And I want to commend you too, because obviously, even though you weren't raised with girls, if you've been married for 31 years, you're doing something right. You got a crash course in how to take care of women with your two daughters, right? But that's amazing that that's— because we don't see marriages that last that long nowadays. People are fast to jump. So, yes, really huge. But no, you're right about women. So, and what I tell my clients is this too, um, if you feel good about yourself, you're going to take it into every single aspect of your life. If you see a beautiful picture of yourself, you're able to go back to those feelings of like, oh, I am beautiful, I am worthy, And there are so many things in life that pull us away. I primarily work, um, 100%, you're right, not with models. I work usually with women 35 plus. Um, they've gone through some different life transitions, life changes, and this is where they're coming in. And it's actually funny you say that too. I'm personally, I work out a lot. I'm definitely very into the bodybuilding world. I have a lot of friends in the industry. I have, um, different people, like, really close to me that are professional. And I actually don't prefer to photograph, um, people with perfect bodies because I— we all need these type of pictures, but I feel like people that don't ever see themselves in a certain light appreciate it more when they actually see these beautiful pictures of themselves. It's very different for them. So it's got to start in our head. Before it can show up in our daily life.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. So I'm thinking just as an idea, I would think that a great use of boudoir photography is as a wedding gift. Do you, do you get that often?

I do get that often. But then I also get people that are getting married for the second time because again, I'm a little bit older clientele, I'd say. Only about 30% of my people are like new brides or a little bit younger getting married for the first time. A lot of people maybe go, they lost a lot of weight, right? They started the health journey, they got divorced, they want to reignite their marriage and, you know, have a special gift for their husband. They've been married for a while, so it's really a wide— or they literally just are doing it for themselves and they just want to feel pretty. They're getting a little older, they're not so confident in how their body is changing. And they think this would help.

What's the oldest woman that you've done? 67.

67.

Very nice.

And I'd love to, I'd love to make that number even higher. Because boudoir can look like so many different things. It's whatever makes you feel beautiful, and a little spicy, you know, so it can be a dress, it can be glam, like more beauty type, it can look like a lot of different things.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. Have you worked with women that have had breast reconstruction? So like cancer survivors?

I have, yeah, a huge range of different people, um, people that have had breast cancer, people that have had like full hysterectomies, and like even some different— I photographed some trans, like crossdressers, all sorts of different people. 'Cause we all have this, and sometimes guys come in too and they do their dudeoir sort of thing, but to be honest, it's mostly women and—

I've never seen that.

I mean, it looks really good.

Well, I mean, I, if what I'm thinking is like, who wants to look at that? Like, I, I'm, that's me and, and my bias. Uh, it's like, I don't know, this conversation is going completely what I didn't think it would go to. So I'm just thinking about, like, if you see a beautiful woman, pretty much a man and a woman can agree that that woman is beautiful.

True.

But, uh, the, the male beauty doesn't translate like that. That's not as captivating as— and, and I don't even think it's a, a sexual thing at all. I think it's, it's just the— I don't know.

I think a good way I describe it is feeling confident and comfortable. And so sometimes as a photographer, if you can help somebody see themselves through a different pair of eyes, then that helps them gain a little bit of that confidence and feel a little bit more comfortable with who they are and how they show up in the world. And that's really where it— so that's where it can go for both men and women. Does this help me feel a little more comfortable and confident?

Okay, then, then I know why you don't see a lot of males doing boudoir photography is because they're already confident. They think they're beautiful, right?

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think my wife tells me that all the time.

It's like, you look at yourself in the mirror and say you're beautiful, and I'm like, oh yeah, I think I'm a good looking guy, right? But am I gonna go, uh, do photography? No, because I, I'm thinking like underwear model, and I'm like, I don't fit the bill. So I, I This is, this is very interesting. You've, you've unwrapped something for me.

Something to think about.

Yeah, something to think about.

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You've done photography and now you've done this, uh, Agency Ignite. Talk about that.

Yes. So earlier this year I redid a bunch of my systems and processes. I tend to nerd out a little bit. I know it's boring, but because I have such a strong business background as opposed to just the creative side, I really know this is how you need to run a business. This is what you need to do. It doesn't mean I'm always perfect at actually getting it done, but I definitely have all those different things because I've studied them and also put them into place both for myself and other people. So I was rewriting a bunch of my systems and processes. I moved my, all my, my CRM, my marketing funnel, a bunch of my website design over onto a new platform. And as I'm writing this whole platform out for myself, I'm like, you know what? Other people need this. I need to do, I need to get back into a little bit more of the coaching and consulting that I had done before. And I've kind of done a little tiny bit on the side, just as people have come to me for help with things. But I'm like, I really would love to help more creatives, specifically women, help get their business set up and into place. So I started Agency Ignite and I'm now working with women creatives who want— they've already been in business for a little bit of time, but they really want to scale their business. They know they need either some help just logistically with their systems and processes, their platform, or some mindset coaching work. And that's where I'm— that's— I'm really— I couldn't be happier to be able to go back to what I, what I originally started with, what I really— my original expertise is in.

I love that. One of the things that I say, uh, on this show frequently is that it's important to consider yourself and think of yourself as an entrepreneur first with skills second, because I think a lot of people get into business with a certain set of skills. You know, it could be plumbing, it could be photography, it doesn't matter. And that's, that's what they focus on. But I think the, the problem with that is that you inherently limit your, uh, potential because you're focusing on your skills first, right?

Yes.

And you are focusing on the business first, and then you're pulling in your skills. So I've got these skills, I can— yeah. And, and that all of a sudden, you're not just in the photography business, you're also in the coaching, consulting, and an agency building business, right?

Exactly.

Yes. So who do you typically work with with Agency Ignite?

So like I said, women creatives, and I also work with guys too. But, you know, you got to have your niche and specifically focus on that. And I'm uniquely positioned to help women who started their business because they had a passion. They wanted to do something creative. They already went out on a limb to go make this jump, do something big. Um, and at some point in time, their business has just become really overwhelming. They don't have the work-life balance that they wanted. It's becoming more stressful. And ultimately they need to make the next jump into the next level of profit. They want to reach that certain income level. They need to be able to hire either their first team or more staff even. And they need to know how to manage people and delegate tasks, and they need to have repeatable processes into place so that they can actually scale. And, um, that's who I really, really like to work with.

Yeah, I think every professional, uh, again, it could be a cabinetmaker to an accountant, reaches that point where they can't physically do all the work and they're the, they're the limit to the growth of the business, right? And so, uh, Talk about why processes are so important.

Yeah. So, um, a couple of things that I've really seen. One, people don't love processes because it holds them accountable to actually having something repeatable. And if you think about, if you don't, if you're not repeating the same exact thing, you can't measure it. You can't see how effectively it's working. You can't delegate. And so you're really so in the business. You haven't stepped out of it to be that manager, but it's also a little bit scary because you also have to pick something. And I'm only saying this too, whenever I say stuff, it's always from like, well, I've experienced that and I've experienced that. No judgment here, but you gotta pick something and then you gotta move forward and then you gotta reevaluate and make a very conscious decision to shift. So you can't just wing it and you can't just say, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna choose this today and that tomorrow because that's no way to run a team. Your team's gonna get irritated and people stop working for you. But it's scary sometimes to commit to one thing and keep moving forward, to not bend the rules because a client maybe gave you some pushback. But processes and systems are the foundation of any lasting business. So you really don't have a business if you don't put that into place.

No, I couldn't agree more. I think that without processes, you're self-employed. With processes, you're actually creating a business.

Exactly.

Which is fine to be self-employed. That's not what I'm saying here. But In order for it to be a business, it has to in some way function without you, and that can't happen without processes. I see, and I wonder if you've seen, and I experienced this myself to a large degree, that one of the problems people have in delegating, you know, hiring employees to do work, is, is this thought that, well, no one can do it like I do it, right? Like there's some special sauce that I've got. Um, but what in reality I think it is, is it's, it's, it's a fear of losing control. Like if, if I have somebody doing this for me, um, and they screw it up, I'm still responsible for it. Exactly. And, and that's a scary place. Is that what you've experienced?

100%. And it— you think about the type of person that got into working for themselves or being self-employed or wanting to start their own business. There is like a very strong amount of nonconformity, wanting to choose and blaze our own path, wanting to do things our own way. And you have to be so careful to like, okay, those are all really amazing qualities, but at one point is Is it going to hold you back from achieving ultimate, like, what is your goal? What do you really want to achieve? Do you want to be beholden to your business? Do you want to like literally just be a sole employee of your business? Or do you want to have a better life? Do you want to build more? Because when you build more, you can benefit not only your clients, but your employees' lives. You can benefit so much more by growing it in whatever way that looks like to you.

But to your point, you said several minutes ago about like entrepreneurship being a personal growth story. And that's something you don't come into the business with, that, that how to make processes or, or how to manage people and delegate. And it requires you to personally grow. You have to change the way you're thinking. And a lot of people are just resistant to that.

I've definitely seen that. You know, I deal with that with my coaching clients too, where if you're not taking radical accountability, then it's going to be hard if somebody starts pushing on some different aspects that you're like, oh, I don't. So for me personally, I have this year I've hired and fired a couple different times. And ultimately what I realized and what I've like, okay, I need to really work on this is like my leadership styles are not very effective. They're effective with people that are very similar to me. But if you're not the same as I, if I can't manage you the same way that I personally like it, I'm not a great leader to you. So, it's on me. Like, I'll take accountability. And now I have to start working. Okay, I'm going to listen to more leadership podcasts. I'm going to start to delve into that more. Because it's one thing to be like, well, I'm a good leader of myself. Okay, cool. Like, you know yourself. Like, that's nice. Can you actually manage other people who have a different personality than you? And it shows up in so many other aspects, how you parent your kid, how you interact with your spouse. Like, it's so valuable that it's worth taking that time. To really dedicate and focus on it. And I've totally sucked at it in the past. I'm going to work on it better. I'm doing better.

Because it's, it's, we've got a strong bias built in, like it's, this is the way I am. Everyone should be like me, even though we don't put those words out there. But that's, that's the way our brain's wired, right? Because it's like the information should come in the way I want it to come in. And, you know, we, we at Core have spent a lot of time and money on working on just our communication styles and done a lot of work with DiSC. And I don't know, are you familiar with DiSC?

I am. It's been a while. I'd have to look up what I am, but I've taken it before.

But what's fascinating is, and we have an external educator and facilitator that does this work for us. And what's fascinating is that our team, and we're small, there's only like 16 of us, that we have a variety of styles, which the facilitator said that that was a credit to me, not that I'm self-promoting here, but because it was unintentional. But she said that usually what she sees in organizations is there's a predominant style, and it's the style of the leader. And when you're trying to communicate, just the basic of communication with someone that communicates differently than you do, it's a challenge. It's hard. I think about my head of our marketing, and she's a full-on creative. There's not a linear line in her brain. I mean, like, Right? Nothing. I remember one time I asked her to do a spreadsheet for me and she gave it to me and I said, please don't ever send me a spreadsheet again because I don't even know what this is. It is not a spreadsheet, but it, you know, makes sense to her. It did. And I'm like, how, how can two people look at something like that and it, and it just lands so differently. But that's, that's the reality of people is We don't all think the same way. We don't all communicate the same way. And working on that— and I want to applaud you because you took ownership of it. You said it's not the people that I hired were the wrong people. There's something I need to learn. And that's, that's not an easy thing to say.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. But nothing's going to change if you try to blame other people or say, like, I was them. It was like, what does that do for you? Cool. Now you put the blame on somebody else.

Yeah.

You're going to make the same mistake.

Yes. Or you'll just hire people that tell you what you want to hear.

That too. So good for you with getting the diversity across, even though probably it's super annoying to be like, dude, I want a spreadsheet.

Yeah. Give me a spreadsheet.

Yes.

Yes.

But it enhances the organization with that kind of diversity of thought.

Yes. Well, let's shift over to the coaching side of it because you talk about mindset and I talk about that a lot in Matter of fact, it's a whole chapter, uh, in Profit First for Creatives where I talk about creative, creative struggling with money specifically and the mindset around it. I'm curious what your experience, not necessarily in money, but just the, the, the mindset of these creative entrepreneurs, what your, what your experience has been.

Yeah, definitely. Um, definitely a lot of self-doubt. Can I do it? Is it going to work? Am I worth it? Can I charge this amount? Are people going to pay these prices? What I like to always go back to is everything has to start in your mind first. So you think of every single, single invention, um, leap forward that we've done. The first airplane, it exists in somebody's mind first. They saw a bird and they're like, oh, wish humans could do that. We should be like that too. And that's how airplanes were made. So we always have to work so hard on our mindset and make sure that we're really, really strengthening that so that we can bring these ideas actually into fruition. So that's one thing that I really like to focus on with people. You can achieve it. If you think you can, you can. If you don't think you can, that's true too. So what are you going to choose?

Yeah, well, I think I could be an NBA player, but I don't think I could be, you know, well, I'm not even going to go down that road.

We can go down that road. I'm down for it because of that delusion. So that's what you're talking about too. And we have a lot of delusion in society. So I completely understand with that too. I think that comes down to who do you surround yourself with? Are you speaking truth and reality into yourself, into your own mind also? Because you don't want to be delusional. Yeah. If you're 5'6", you're probably not going to the NBA. Like, sorry, you can try as hard, but you're going to waste your time and energy. So I think it is a delicate balance of Speaking truth and positivity into your mind while also being realistic. And I think some people have a, based on a lot of different dynamics, maybe family history, different people that have spoken into their life, they do have a hard time with that. And so that's where I think, can you get the right group of people around you, the right influences to help give that good balance of reality with, okay, but what's the opportunity also? It's a balance. It's tricky.

Yeah. And I can see where, you know, some people end up— myself— is that you kind of like, you limit yourself on one hand and then are delusional about what you can do on the other hand, and you hold those two things at the same time, right?

Mhm.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. So specifically around the mindset, and you said self-worth, can I charge this? And I think this is a topic that is very important for creative entrepreneurs. I talk about in the book this three-pronged decision that creative entrepreneurs have to, to, to work through. And every business has a two-pronged decision is will the customer pay me for this? And the second is, can I make money at it? Like, it's can you get the business? Can you do the business? That's business in general. That's— and it's, it's overly simplified, but that's every problem goes into one of those two buckets. The creative entrepreneur adds the third element of, do I want to do it? This, this passion piece, right? Like, yeah, I can do it, uh, but I don't want to do it. And talking about how it's a, it's a factor of redeploying their creativity in a way that, that you can answer those other two questions rather than just, you know, be stuck in, well, this is not something that I want to do. But then this, this concept of pricing and am I worth it. And so many of them start out, uh, Kevin Rapp, uh, another guest on my show, he calls the— he says getting paid in experience bucks. And he's like, no, I don't, I don't want to get paid in experience bucks, I want real bucks. And so many people go into the business charging nothing because they don't feel like they're worth it. They're, they're afraid that they're not going to get the work. Um, how do you approach that with your, your clients?

Good question. So the first thing I do is, what, what have you done? Get a baseline of what have you done before. And then based on that, is it even— are there any, like, lies that you've told yourself? Because what I've seen too is that we tend to base our decisions on sometimes very faulty information. So, okay, you talked to 5 people and 5 people said no. Okay, well that's a very, very small sample size. So you're basing all that on that small amount of people. Like, that's probably not totally realistic. You probably needed to talk to 20 people or 50 people. Like, you just have to keep going. And because there's so much inner worth stuff that goes on with running our own business, you have to push so hard against that self-doubt and inner dialogue that's going to tell you, like, just stop. So like, for me, it's taken me so long to kind of be more in front of the camera and like being on video or being more on social media because I'm even for me, I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to. But if you don't put yourself out there, and which is what I see with a lot of entrepreneurs, you don't know what's going to happen. Like, you're purple. Like, we just hold ourselves back so much, or we, we do that faulty information. So that's the first thing I try to do, kind of level set. And that's where having good people around you that can speak some truth into your life, I think, is so important. Because it's like, you just, you need to have a bigger sample size. You need to keep pushing.

My auditor brain says that you need 25 to be statistically significant. I think I got taught that as an auditor 35 years ago. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but that's what I was told.

Ah, like I was just doing a little bit of back and forth consulting with another, a fellow photographer who's planning on starting her studio soon, getting back into it after taking a little break for some health-related issues. And she's like, well, I talked to one guy on the phone, I said my new prices, and he was like shocked with it. I'm like, I talked to like 20 people on the phone in one day and I booked one person out of all that. And I might follow up with another, I'm gonna follow up with all of them, but maybe another 5 more might be interested in booking. You have to look at like So that's where getting into some having the people around you, but then also listening to a lot of different business podcasts and realizing, okay, you're talking about a sales funnel, you need more people. So yes, we might have gotten a little bit away from your initial question.

No, I think that's, that's important because it kind of ties into what you've, you've talked about before. And what's been my experience is, is that you extract the most value from a customer when you provide the optimal solution to their problem. And, you know, we, we all are, are giving piecemeal solutions because we don't fully understand, because we're human beings and they're human beings and we're completely irrational and unpredictable. We don't really know the extent of the problem that we're solving. We just have an idea of the problem we're solving. So we're never going to get 100% value. But as you, as you perfect that solution to the problem, you're narrowing the number of people that you're, you're going to work with because fewer and fewer people are going to have that problem. Because it's kind of like if I want to, uh, market as, as a doctor, well Good luck. You're never going to get any traction with that. Well, okay, I'm gonna be, uh, I'm gonna market myself as a dermatologist. Yeah, maybe easier, but still not easy. If I say, well, I, I'm a dermatologist that specializes in teenage adolescent acne in this certain geographic area, you know, in, in Dallas, Okay, now you've got something that you can potentially market on, right? Exactly. And that allows you to raise your prices. And so I, I think what I've seen is, is that that lack of clarity, uh, for new business owners is what compounds that problem because they're not real sure what the value is that they're bringing. But once they get an idea of what that value is, they can extract more, more money.

Exactly. So here's a good test for it, and I love to do it in my little like sassy way. So I do a lot of networking and connecting in the business community. Um, love being able to do that. If you're meeting with somebody and you ask, who's your ideal client? And they're like, everyone. You're like, mm, that's awful. Ew, gross. You need to fix that. And that's a really good way to say, like, have you done the work to drill down to what you actually do, the value you actually provide, and who will most likely be the correct candidate? Because I also can't help you by referring people to you if you just work with everybody. Like, That's so boring. You gotta, you gotta pick a lane. Let's go for it.

Yeah, like, Marian does photography. Okay, well, that doesn't tell me much, right? If it's, hey, uh, you're getting married and you want to give an awesome gift to your husband, uh, and you're in the Dallas area, Marian's your gal. That is something you can hang your hat on, to use a Texas phrase. Although there are cowboys in, in Hawaii.

I've I've seen— yeah, different island. I grew up on the more crowded urban island, Oahu. So they were on different islands, kind of.

Yeah. So when you work through that with your boudoir photography or Ignite Agency, how did you work through that pricing? What did that look like for you?

I definitely did market research about what other people were charging and then got a better sense of that. And then I looked at my cost of goods and cost of doing business. And I ran a whole analysis on what I needed. I set some goals, both 6, 1 year, 3 years, and 5 years. And actually, speaking of which, at the end of year, I'm going to revisit the goals and make sure everything's in alignment because you got to go revisit them every so often. I'm on a every once a quarter check back on all my different numbers. And I know you're a numbers guy and you're awesome with it, but for some of us, we hate numbers. So it's been a journey to get to the point where I'm like, that too, you know? So everything's a journey or you hire people that can help you with it.

I don't know if you can see my sign. It says, this calls for a spreadsheet.

Yes. See, you are the numbers guy. I can't see that from here, but that's perfect. You're a perfect person for that. But yeah, and then I did that and that's how I set my prices.

I'm curious, was there— because I'm thinking, and I'm just making shit up at this point, but I'm thinking about your business and I'm thinking about, you know, you could do boudoir photography a lot of different ways, but from just looking at your website, it looked like it was all about the experience and the transformation. And that to me seems to— would command a much higher price than I just need some lingerie photos.

100%. Yes. So, and if you think about it too, I've been doing photography for 13 years now. And so I have one, worked with a large amount of mentors, different business models. They've all been specifically focused on in-person sales, which I really wanted to focus on for the photography, but I've tried different things, adapted it. The other thing I've done over the years is also tier my pricing. So I started out a little, definitely lower than what I am now. Still like higher than a lot of maybe shoot and burn type of photographers, but I have increased it. I've revisited prices, moved it up and down. Coming out to Dallas, I was able to change some, some things lowered, some things went up. And then even more recently, it's like, what do I want my multiples to be? And my, um, my margins.

Music to my ears.

Yes, it's been huge. And I would even now, I'm looking at it, I have a studio space now. In another year and a half, my lease will have expired. Do I want to move it to either a cheaper location, a different location? Do I want to have an in-home studio? That's going to change prices and that's going to, you know, move some things around. So all those different components. But no, I, I It's— we're definitely a full-service studio. I want all my marketing material to be a full-service, higher-priced, all everything comes from Italy. And that's all part of the marketing, how we speak to clients, the everything that goes out afterwards, our confirmation emails. So we are definitely a luxury photography studio, not a middle tier or a lower price.

Mm-hmm. I love it. So how do we learn more about either your photography or your agency consulting.

Absolutely. So themarianmethod.com is where I have links to everything, both photography, the agency. You can book a call with me and I can chat more about business. Love to get connected with people in your audience who just want to talk a little bit more. And themarianmethod.com.

Love it. Marian, thank you very much for your time, your experience share, your honesty and candor. Uh, listeners, if you like the show, please rate the show, uh, subscribe to the show, share the show. If you don't like Marian and me, you can always drop us a message and tell us what you'd like to hear. Until then, ta-ta for now.

And that's a wrap for today's episode of The Profitable Creative. Until next time, you money lovers, and don't forget Profit First for Creatives is live via Amazon.

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