An Unexpected Journey: Keren Gonen

This is the Chris Project, where we discuss mental wellness, self-awareness, and mindset with entrepreneurs and experts. Set your perceived ideas and biases aside and let's go on our journey for yourself, for your family, for the world.

Welcome to another episode of The Chris Project. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today, Karen Gonan of Real Estate Executives. Karen, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it, Christian.

Absolutely. I'm excited to hear your experience and your angle on this. So let's start with the CV. You know, who's Karen? What does Karen do?

So I am a real estate broker with Realty Executives in Vernon, New Jersey, which is Sussex County. So we are in the northwest corner of the state. We butt with Pennsylvania, and on the other side we have Warwick, New York. I'm originally from Israel. I came to the US when I was 13 years old. And moved to Connecticut, lived there for 3 years, moved to Jersey. I would like to disclose I've moved 29 times in my life.

So real estate's a good profession for you.

It really is. But you'd be surprised, Christian, to learn that I've never thought of real estate before, ever in my entire life. It was never something that I wanted to do. And it's by chance or by the universe or by God, whatever you believe in, that I made it to real estate. Definitely where I'm supposed to be because that's where I can do the most good, in my opinion.

Well, now that's interesting. I— so we, we've talked about on this show a little bit, probably not as much as we should have, uh, around purpose. Um, and, and you mentioned a, a purpose in being in real estate that wasn't really your design. Right? Like, you didn't set out to be in this industry. Talk a little bit more about that from your personal understanding and belief.

Sure. So I was always in customer service and managerial positions prior to becoming a real estate agent. I had worked with my family at shipping import import and export for almost 20 years. We had our own company and we were actually the third largest exporter from the US to West Africa. So we had always been at the top. That's how I was raised. I was raised in an entrepreneurial home and we were always taught to do our best and our best better be good because that's just how we were raised. There's no other option. And so I got into real estate because I was in between jobs at the time. I had just left my job as a CEO for a beauty company out in Queens, New York, because it was just, it was too much traffic. My kids were young. My nanny was getting paid more than I was. You know, all these things.

Never a good sign.

Right, it was all these things and it was time to move on. And so I had quit that job and I was at home and my then boyfriend wanted to flip houses. In Vernon, New Jersey. We were living in Ringwood, which is a different county, it's Passaic County, um, and he wanted to flip in Vernon, New Jersey because in Vernon you could get bank-owned properties for $30,000, $40,000, $50,000, and that's what his budget was. But he wasn't getting any answers from any real estate agents. No one was calling him back, texting him back, none of that. So he came home one day and he was very frustrated, and I said, look, I'm between jobs, so why don't I do this for you? I had always been in business, and therefore I'm really good on follow-up. So I figured this would be the perfect opportunity. Again, wasn't doing anything, wasn't even thinking of getting another job at this point. I just, I needed some rest from all the driving and all the drama at my prior job. And so I said to him, listen, why don't I take over? Because I'm attached to my phone like everybody else these days, and I've always done 'Customer service always been in business, let me do it.' So after 2 weeks of me trying to get a human on the phone in order for him to go and see a house, I was getting frustrated because day in and day out I'm calling, texting, emailing, no one's responding to me. And one night, it was a Thursday night, he came home, we were sitting down at dinner, and all I'm doing is complaining about how all these real estate agents, no one was calling me back. And I'm sitting there and I'm going at it and don't these people need to make money by selling a house? Don't they not get paid unless they sell? Why wouldn't they want to sell a house? You know, not knowing all the background story, because it's not an industry I was ever interested in. Didn't even cross my mind ever in my entire life. And so he looked at me and he said, why don't you just become an agent? And that night I was signed up for class and the following Monday I started class and a month later I had my license. And that's how it all began. This is why I say it was some other force that brought me to real estate. It was not my idea under any circumstances.

I found that most of my ideas are bad ones. I don't know if you have that experience. Like, I have this idea that this is what I should do, and then it's like, eh. Okay, so was that your first entrepreneurial endeavor? Or had you dabbled before?

No. So like I said, my family owned a company for shipping. My dad and I had actually started it years prior where, again, I was in between jobs.

Okay. So you weren't just an employee there. You were a partner with your dad.

I was the operations manager of the company. And just to give you a little bit of background question, I knew nothing about shipping. My dad came to me and said, hey, listen, I want to start a new shipping company. How about you come and work with me. And I said, "Abba, I'm going to kill you." We're very similar, and so being very similar is not a good thing. You know, I am my father, just in female form. And so I said, "I'll kill you within a week." And he said, "Let's just try for a week. If it doesn't work, you go your way, I'll go mine, everything will be fine." And so he took me to his prior office and had one of the ladies there train me. And then he took my mother on a 2-week vacation to Florida and left me in the office. Perfect.

Yeah, and I was like, a brilliant indoctrination.

Yeah, exactly. And I called him up and I said, Abba, how could you have left me? I barely know anything about shipping. Do you know what his response was, Christian?

You'll figure it out.

Sink or swim, baby.

Same thing.

And that's just the type of mentality that was in my family. There was no other option. You had to succeed, and nobody was going to hold your hand, and nobody was going to tell you exactly what to do. You were going to figure it out on and that's exactly what happened.

Yeah, I find that most new entrepreneurs are shocked. You know, some people come to entrepreneurship reluctantly or situationally, as opposed to like those of us that it's really kind of innate in who we are. And, and, and approach it more boldly, maybe. But this idea that everything's your responsibility is one that's really hard for a lot of people to get over. And it's kind of like, well, what about this? And what about that? And I didn't know about that. And it's like, it doesn't matter. It's on your plate now. So figure it out.

And then you do. You do.

Or you don't. You know, I mean, there's a there's a lot of, uh, entrepreneurs that, that don't make the cut. I mean, you know, they think they want to be entrepreneurs until they have to do entrepreneur shit, and then it's like, I, yeah, I can't do this.

And you know, it's funny because I have— so I have a networking group, a few of them actually, but the specific one, we have a lot of younger entrepreneurs that come into the group and they have no clue what they're doing, but we're happy to help. And so I had what we call a sit down with this member. And she said, what, I don't know how to do this, and I don't know how to do that. And I said, it's okay, we're here, we are going to help you. There was another young lady with me, she does financial advising, but she's also very spiritual. And this young entrepreneur needed help in many different levels of her life. And so by the time we left, she had a new set of habits, got rid of her old habits. Hopefully she will stick to that. But that's one of the things that I think entrepreneurs always need, someone else who's been there, done that, and can help you, maybe not in your business specifically, but can help you with the good habits that you need to have as an entrepreneur so that you don't crash and burn.

Yeah, I think entrepreneurs in general need support. Like, they don't know how much support they need. I don't even know whether I would call it prescience or maybe it was God's provision, but I bought a franchise out of the gate. And so, like, I had that support. Of course, I was paying for it, but I had a support network built in that absolutely allowed me to accelerate my entrepreneurial journey. Like, had I had to learn all those things myself that the franchisee, the franchisor had already figured out and put into a process in the system, I probably wouldn't have succeeded. Yeah, I probably would have, but it would have been a lot uglier.

But you would have gotten it done, right?

Yes. And, you know, that's interesting you say that, because that is the— one of the most fascinating things I've learned over the last 3 years is this idea I call it perseverance. My wife calls it stubbornness. I think they're two sides of the same coin.

Exactly the same.

Right? It's just who you are as an entrepreneur is you're very persistent. But it can in situations show up negatively. Right? And it's like, There was a speaker, and I cannot remember his name. I know he wears all pink. And I went to an EO event, Entrepreneurs Organization event, and he talked about personality traits. And it was a family event. So he was speaking to kids as well. And he was talking about how, you know, the things that we label characteristics certain ways, like I said, you can call it persistence. Or perseverance, and you can also call it stubbornness. But he challenged us to think about those things not in, in terms of labels, but just as who you are, right? And, and not trying to fix it, but just have an understanding of, you know, this is who you are. Um, because in labeling it, we, we can, can amplify certain characteristics of it. Like, so if someone calls you stubborn As a stubborn person, you're like, well, I'm not stubborn. I'm going to show you stubborn, right? Like, right. So, so anyway, what, what I've come to find is that that characteristic that defined me for a lot of my entrepreneurial journey actually became more of a liability. Not, not that I still didn't need it. I did. But it kept me from letting go of the wheel to allow others to do their job. And so specifically in developing leadership for my company, I had to get over this belief that I had— if something was going to happen, it had to have me as a driving force behind it, and that regardless of whether I knew what I was doing, I had to hang on and figure it out. And that was a real—

I call that being a control freak. And I am a control freak. I don't see it in balance.

Yeah, I don't— maybe I was. Maybe other people called me that behind my back. I didn't really feel that way. But to me, it was like I couldn't quit. Like that was something that was deeply ingrained in me. And I don't think it was my parents. I don't— I just think that's who I was. Like, you can't quit. I remember distinctly a coach in high school making the statement, you know, quitting is a habit, right? Like, so if you quit once, it's easier to quit the second time, right? And so that was my attitude. But the reality in my business was that I needed to quit doing what I was doing. And it was— I said I had held on to that rope until I'd burned my hand down to the bone. I mean, it wasn't just flesh that had flayed. It was down to the bone because I was hanging on. But it wasn't working, right? And that characteristic that had made me successful, that I had relied on, actually was an impediment. For me to move forward. Have you had a similar experience?

I have. So like I said, I am a control freak. But the funny thing is, my, my now husband says to me all the time, because I love to help people all the time. Doesn't matter what you need. I'm happy to help. I'm always here. And I needed help in my business and I couldn't make it to a showing. I don't remember the exact situation, but I needed help. And there was only me because at the time I was the only agent. And he said to me, he said, you know, if you don't let people help you when you need it, they're going to stop asking you for help. And then a light bulb went off because I want to give all the time, but I don't want to ask for help. I don't want to delegate. I want to hold on to everything because it's mine, mine, mine. And I can handle it all by myself because I'm a very independent woman. But as I grew older, I realized that's not the case. And sometimes letting go of that control is much better for me and my business. So when I'm in a tizzy, as we say, and I have 300 things to do but I only have time for 2, I very often turn to my husband and say, hey, look, these are all the things I need to do. Because I'm so deep in it, I can't see outside, I can't see the big picture. Then I'll say, these are all the things I have to do, do you have any ideas? So he's my sounding board where he says, well, is this really necessary? Do you absolutely have to do this yourself, or can you delegate it to someone else? And sometimes That's what I need because in my head I can do everything at the same time and everything will be fine. But it won't be because I'll try, I'll stretch myself too thin and at some point I'm going to crash and burn and I don't want that to happen. So I have had that happen many times and sometimes it's on a very small scale, like it's just a day where I have an appraisal, a showing, and a new client, a listing appointment at the same time. Who can I give what to. So I'm not good with the giving away things. I should be able to do everything. So that's, that's something that happens on a regular basis. And sometimes it's a lot bigger. Sometimes it's, uh, hey, you have to officiate a wedding on a Saturday, and on Sunday you have to be in Arizona, and on Wednesday you have another event. So sometimes it's on a much bigger scale.

Yes, I think my experience with that resonates with yours. When you said, you know, I can do it all, I had the hubris to say I can do it all better than anybody else. And I actually said those words. I can't believe that I said it, but I said to somebody in my organization, it wasn't even like I said it to myself. It was an actual outside voice. To someone in my organization that I can do any job in this company better than anybody else here. Okay, maybe. I, I don't even at this point stipulate that that's true. But even if it is true, even if you're the most brilliant genius and a polymath and you can do all kinds of things, you still have the limitation of time. You still have the limitation of yourself. And it's the getting over yourself part that's, I think, a stumbling block for a lot of entrepreneurs.

I agree. I think it's the idea of us not needing anyone else. And I think that's especially for someone who's very independent. I'm a Leo. So, you know, I want to do everything by myself and I can do everything, but I think it comes with years. And practice and wisdom that you get as a result of your life experiences that makes you realize that it's okay to let someone else do it. I'm not a micromanager. So if I have to tell you what to do step by step, we're not going to be working together. I'm the type of person that says, look, this is what needs to get done. If you need my help, let me know, but you do it. I'm not going to double-check on you. I'm not going to check in with you. In fact, when I worked with my family, my sister used to try and micromanage me, and that would make me flip out on a regular basis because who are you to micromanage me? I know what I'm doing. I don't need anybody to micromanage me. And I'm the older sister. So, there.

Yeah, I was at another EO event and there were about 100 entrepreneurs in this room. And right before the speaker started to talk, it was Jeff Smart. He and his dad came up with StrengthFinders, and he wrote the book— Jeff wrote the book Who?, which is a brilliant book. And before we started, like, everybody was calming down a little bit. And he looked at one of the people in the front rows, he said, go get me some coffee. And you could see the guy Christian Brissell. Right? But he used it as a teaching point. And he said, entrepreneurs are very self-sufficient. And at the core of that, they don't like to be told what to do.

Right?

You can ask me to do something. And I'm absolutely willing to help, love to help, right? But don't tell me to do it.

Right?

And I found, because that's the way I want to be treated, that that was my expectation with others. Right. And to your point, like, I can't hire somebody that needs constant attention, right? Because that's not the way I function. However, I had to realize that all of my employees, especially my leadership team, are not entrepreneurs. They're not me. They don't think the way that I do, and they need more than I would in that situation, right? And, and learning how to manage people, uh, was a challenge because I, I wanted to be managed the way I would want to be managed. And some people need a little more, a little different. Like, it may show up as coaching, it may show up as mentoring, it may show up as educating, but, you know, you can't just take an employee and treat them like an entrepreneur and say, go figure this out. Right. Most of the time that won't work.

And I think that's part of the problem. So as a real estate agent, and I teach this to my agents all the time, when you walk into a house or when you first meet a client, you need to assess who they are very quickly. For instance, if I go on a listing appointment and I meet a husband and a wife and the wife is naturally more emotional than the husband, but the husband is very analytical. He's about numbers. I'm not going to sit down and be my emotional nurturing self. I'm gonna spew out numbers and statistics about the value of their home, sales in our area, those type of things, because clearly he's very pragmatic and this is what he needs in order to work with me. Whereas if it's someone who's more emotional, then we take a totally different route. And that's something that also comes with time. So I think the same is true for employees where if someone is more independent and they prefer to work on their own and they prefer for you to see the finished product, if you want the best production out of them, you need to meet them where they are. You need to treat them in the way that they can produce to the best of their ability. Otherwise, if you treat them in a different way, they're not going to produce, you're going to be miserable, and so are they. So, it's bad on both ends. And I think that just comes with experience and life wisdom.

Yeah, it's definitely a skill that most entrepreneurs don't have. They don't bring to the table. Right. And, but to your point, it can be learned. And what we adopted pre-COVID, so 8 or 9 years ago, this model called ROWE, Results Only Work Environment. And I can't remember the author's name, but the author of the book was two women. It was called Work Sucks and How to Change It. But they were speaking to more managers rather than entrepreneurs. But I think it really encapsulates the— I think the best way for an entrepreneur to adapt to management, because it's really not— I don't really care how you do things. I have certain expectations, outcomes that have to happen within a certain time frame. With a certain quality standard, for instance, but how and when and where you do that, I don't care. And that really resonates with entrepreneurs, right? Like, so that— well, yeah, that's, that's the way I'd like to be managed. However, it gives you the framework to work with others that, like, not everybody can work in a ROW environment. Like, there are a lot of people that just need that handholding, micromanagement, right? Yeah. And so you have to be careful what employees you hire for that. They have to have a little bit of that entrepreneurial spirit of figuring things out themselves. But to me, it marries the entrepreneurial mindset with management quite lovely. Quite lovely.

Right. And I think that's the strength of a manager. And that's the strength of an entrepreneur. For instance, if someone says to me, "Well, you can't do that," that just lights a fire. And then not only will I show you that I could do it, I'll do it better than anybody else, and I'll do it twice, run around you in circles to show you that I can. So that's— and again, I'm going to bring up my husband because obviously that's the most experience. We've been together for a very long time, but when we first started dating, he would say stuff like, 'You can't do that.' And then I would look at him and I would say, 'Are you challenging me?' And he would say, 'Yeah,' in the beginning, you know, before he knew who he was dealing with. He would say, 'Yeah, that's a challenge. I'm challenging you.' Well, years later he learned that when I say, 'Are you challenging me?' the response is, 'Absolutely not. I'm just suggesting what you should or shouldn't do. Decision is totally yours.' And the difference in the words is what's going to make the difference in my reaction. Because maybe it's a bad idea, but if you tell me I can't do that, watch me do it.

Obstinate defiance. That's what my daughter calls it. And, you know, it's funny, she was using that term with me. Oh no. But like you and your dad, she's just like me in a lot of ways. And I'm like, yeah, pot kettle, you know, whatever. But no, it is something that you have to be careful of as an entrepreneur of not being reactive. Like, if someone tells you to do something, you're going to bristle. But that doesn't mean it has to proceed to that. Like that guy that he asked for coffee, he didn't tell him to go fuck himself. I mean, you know, that would be the inappropriate response, right? And clearly, if It's, you know, it's almost like a child, like that reverse psychology. If I really want the one thing, I ask for the opposite. And we as entrepreneurs can be easily manipulated. Like someone tells you to do something or not do something, your reaction is visceral. It's like, well, no, no, I can do that. Right. And you can be manipulated by your feelings if you're not careful. Like you don't want to be reactionary.

And I think that's part of the problem. And again, it's, it's also part of age because as we age, we have different life experiences and we learn what to do and what not to do. But when we're young and we're petulant and we're just going to react automatically, whereas when you're older, you understand you need to take a step back, take a breath, look at the whole picture, and then make a decision, not just shoot from the hip because you can and because you're smart and because fast, fast, fast, that's the way to go because it's It's really not, not at all, right?

Yeah, not at all. So tell me a little bit more about your networking groups. Is that a business model? Or is that just something you participate in, volunteer in?

So that's a funny story. I, when I first came into real estate, we had moved to Vernon, we did find a house to rent that we actually ended up buying later on. I didn't know anyone. I knew, I don't know, my landlady and somebody else in town that I had known from before, and that's it. And so I was a brand new real estate agent. I didn't know, I had no network, I had no sphere. So I wasn't like every other agent that says, oh, I know tons of people, I'm going to reach out to all my sphere, let them know I'm an agent, get the business. I didn't have anyone. And so I had gone to a BNI meeting, Business Network International meeting in a town over, which was Sparta. And I just fell in love with the idea. And I said, "Oh my God, I have to make this happen in Vernon." Because, you know, that meeting already had a real estate agent, so I couldn't join it, but I could start a new chapter. And so I had reached out to BNI and I said, "I'd like to start a chapter." And they said, "Well, you need 13 people." I didn't even know more than 3, but I tried. So I got the electrician and the plumber and the attorney, and that was it. 3 people. That's all I had, and there was me, so we were 4. And BNI said, you know, we're really sorry, we don't start chapters with less than 13 people, or 17, I don't even remember. And I said, okay, then I'll just wait, because I believe things happen for a reason. And if it's— when it's the right time, it's going to happen. I'm not going to kill myself trying to find people that'll make no commitment to me because they don't know me and they don't see the value in what I bring to to the table. You know, I had no delusions of what my abilities are, but I also didn't have any delusions about who I know and who I don't know. And so I put that on the back burner, and a year later, a gentleman called me and said, "Hi, I got your number from BNI. They said you wanted to start a chapter in Vernon. I'm in Vernon. Let's meet up and talk." And we had chatted, and he had been in Vernon for decades, so we decided to start a Vernon BNI chapter. We met in my office. We had enough people, and so we met a couple of times, then finally we were ready. So I reached out to BNI and I said, we would like to have our meetings on Thursday mornings, because since I was divorced with children, that was the only day that I could do a 7 AM meeting, a Thursday, because my kids were with their dad. And so they told me at BNI, they said, You can't do Thursday because the group in Sparta meets on Thursday, and on the off chance that one of the higher-ups will have to stop by yours, and Sparta needs us too, you can't have it on the same day. So I went back to the group and I said, listen guys, I'm really sorry, the only day I am physically able and available to have a meeting is Thursday. BNI says we can't do it. I'm happy to find you another real estate agent that could do it. I can't, physically can't. And so they said, absolutely not. You started this chapter. We'll just start our own networking group. And I was hesitant because BNI already had a structure. They already had everything figured out. And yes, they were very expensive, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel if I don't have to. And so they said, no, we're not doing it. We'll just start our own. And there were people that were older than me with much more experience in being entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs. And they said, we can all figure it out. Don't even worry about it. We started the group. 6 years later, we have over 40 members. Last year we did $1.2 million in business. And in Sussex County where everything is a lot cheaper, $1.2 million is a lot of money in business. A ton. Nice. Yeah. Nice. That's just one of my networking groups. I'm very big on networking. Very, very big advocate for specifically women, but obviously men also. So I also have BW NICE. I'm the president of their Sussex chapter, and that's a women's only networking group that supports DASI, which is a charity. It stands for Domestic Abuse and Sexual Intervention. So they have the shelters. They also accept men and women, but the group itself that fundraises specifically for DASI, that's women's only group. And I took over that chapter a year ago. We had 5 people, and now we have 21. So we're doing better.

Very nice. So then you do coaching or mentoring of real estate agents? What do you do there?

I do. So I'm the broker of my office, and when new agents— I actually prefer new agents because they come as a plain canvas. They don't have any bad habits. They don't have anything that I have to fix, and I just teach them the right way. I give them all the tools, but I do what is called bringing the horse to the water. I don't take you by the hand and tell you, today you're doing this, tomorrow you're doing this. I tell you what you have to get done, I give you all the tools, and then I throw you in the water and tell you to sink or swim, baby. And if you have questions, I'm always here. I was with an agent doing a contract at 11 o'clock last night. So I'm always available to my agents, but I don't handhold.

Right. Yeah.

No.

And that sounds— that model, real estate brokerage, sounds ideal for a ROW environment or results-only work environment. I was just reminded my daughter got to go to a dinner of one of the founders of Keller Williams recently. She's here in Oklahoma, and she's like in her 90s. Wow. Yeah, but it was a fascinating— what little bit she told me was fascinating. It was a women's group that was doing this interview, I guess. Whatever it was. But she was a fascinating woman. She was a fascinating woman of faith, too, in that, you know, she, she's Christian. But I kind of go back to— I want to circle back to this purpose. And I think that for me, you know, you reach a certain level of success, and a certain age. And, you know, you, you you start to look around, and I've seen this with a lot of entrepreneurs, uh, you know, that get into their 40s and, and start looking around, and they're like, is this it? Like, wait a second. Yeah. Uh, and I, I think that, uh, um, there, there, there is this real realization that there, there's a deeper purpose in what you do than just making money and providing for your family. I agree. So, you've touched on a little bit about it, but like, what does that look like in your life?

Oh, I already know. My ultimate goal in like, let's say, 10 years when I don't love selling and buying houses as much as I do now, my purpose is to create a business center in town that will allow entrepreneurs to meet with people such as an attorney, a bookkeeper, marketing, all of those different facets of being an entrepreneur that nobody teaches you. So I was very fortunate because I grew up in an entrepreneurial home, but most people are not. And so to open such a center, obviously would be a charity. I would have to get different people involved. But I already have those people, and they already know I'm gonna call on them in 10 years when I'm ready. And that's really a deeper calling for me because I always want to help. I'm always happy to help. I was just at the municipal building this morning because the mayor asked me to come to the 9/11 ceremony. Last night I was planting at the municipal building because it didn't look good, and so I had my Rotary Club sponsor purchasing plants at the local nursery. And then last night it was me and two other ladies, and all we were doing is planting. So help has always been part of my character, but now it's on a much deeper level because of my age, because of my experience, because I want to teach my kids the same. My kids will tell you if they've spent Saturdays picking up trash and planting on the side of the road and doing all these different things because that's the legacy I leave behind my children. And so it's important for me that they learn that doing charity and being kind is just part of our life. It's not something we do later on.

Yeah, I think, um, you know what, what that, what that speaks to me or sounds like is the love your neighbor as yourself. And that is one of the overarching laws of Judeo-Christian belief. Exactly, right. Of course, the other is loving God. But, you know, I don't think Personally, I don't think you can love others completely until you love God. I think, I think that the love of God that he shows to us is how you love others, right? Because you, you can't, you can't give something you don't have, right? And a lot of people don't love themselves, um, but when they understand the love of their father, then they have that to give to others.

Right, right, right. And I think that's what a lot of people are missing, I would say, in this country, but I think it's worldwide. I think we, we've forgotten how to come from a place of love. When I'm angry at someone, or someone calls me and curses me out or yells at me, my initial thought is, I'm gonna fight right back, you know. And then I sit back and I say, wait, This is not who I am. I come from a place of, a place of love, a place of godly love. What would he do in this case? And that's funny thing. I teach my agents the same. I tell them, if you're dealing with a really mean listing agent or a mean buyer's agent, or someone is pissing you off, like they're not being appropriate, they're not doing their job. Cuz there are two sides to every transaction, buyer and seller. They're not doing what they're doing. I said pity them, understand that they come from a bad place. Maybe their cat died, maybe God forbid they had an argument with a loved one, maybe someone in their family passed away, maybe someone's sick. Come from a place of understanding that if you want to succeed and you want the transaction to close, you get ready to do your job and theirs because otherwise you won't sell any houses, you won't make any money. So What that does to them is the understanding that we can do it all and it's okay to do all of it, but the other side who was mean or wasn't appropriate or whatnot will remember that you did not treat them the same way. You were better than them. So next time they come around, they will treat you differently because you didn't retort with the same mannerism. You were better, you were the bigger person, and that'll give you more success in the long run.

Yes. Don't curse your enemies, bless them. And in doing so, heap burning coals on their head. Yes. Which I never really quite understood that analogy. I need to go back and understand the Hebrew behind that. But like, I'm sure that means something more than it sounds like.

But it always does. The Bible is just that way.

Yeah, I tried to learn Biblical Hebrew. That shit's hard.

It is hard. I agree.

I even went to a Messianic congregation that did intro Hebrew classes and took those. And like, I got through the alphabet. That was about it. But I couldn't tell you the alphabet now. And I mean, it's like, yeah, I took the Tanakh out in Hebrew, and I started looking at it. And I'm like, there's no way. Like, I And my pastor heard that I was trying to learn Hebrew. And he looked at me like, "You're nuts, dude." Like, why would— but to your point, like, language is unique. And, you know, you see this in the modern world where translations don't mean the same thing. And so I felt like if I were going to truly understand the word that I needed to read it in the original Hebrew and I haven't gotten there yet.

Well, Hebrew is the 7th hardest language in the world, and I can tell you it's true because when I try to explain to people one word in Hebrew, I need like 3, 4 sentences in order to get the precise meaning of the word.

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

I'm sorry. Can you excuse me for just a moment? We have a geriatric dog. I apologize, my dog is 13 and she forgets that she just went out and just came in and just went out and just came in. My apologies.

No, we had to put down our, our 14-year-old dachshund.

Oh no, that's awful.

Yeah, yeah, he ended up with an abscessed tooth and the doctor said, look, he ain't gonna go through surgery.

So yeah, that's really sad. I'm sorry to hear that.

Well, strangely, when I was a child, I had a dog, a German Shepherd, and I was in second grade, first grade, and I came home and my parents had taken the dog to the vet and put her down. And I'm like, why? Well, I guess she had a brain tumor, but I had no idea about this. Like, all this was going on without my knowledge. I just came home one day and my dog was gone. Yeah. And I've never had an emotional attachment to a dog since.

That's your defense mechanism.

It is like, I'm not going to love that damn dog. I'm not going to.

See, that's me in cars. When I got separated, I had to give up my Honda Pilot. And I loved that car. That car I got when my kids were just born. So I attached all the memories to the car. And when that happened, I said, that's it.

It.

Not loving any more cars ever again. I'm all done. And you know, it's funny now that I think of it, it happened to me with my chickens. I had chickens that I had gotten from a friend and there were 11 of them and I gave them all names and I was so excited because I love animals and I had one that I called—

So these were laying hens. These were not frying chickens.

No, no, I don't eat meat and I would never raise any animal that I'd have to kill and eat. I, I can't even fathom the thought. So one of the chickens was called Kwa, because anytime we would walk by, she would go, "Kwa!" So we named her Kwa. And then one day I was going to a showing, I came by to pick up my husband for the showing. He had the chickens out. We were rushing to get to the appointment on time. He left the chickens out, and when we came back, 7 of them were gone. And that was it. No more naming of any chickens. No more. We're all done. I can't do it anymore.

So do you still have chickens?

I do. I have 16.

But they're just like Chicken 1, 2, and 3. They're not—

they're just the brown one, the gray one, the bully. They have those type of nicknames, but there are no names anymore. I couldn't tell you.

I—

it's a defense mechanism. I was so hurt. I was torn. It was— and I know they're just chickens. I get it. But I loved them. So it was a problem.

My wife helped out on her family, her uncle's farm when she was growing up. And she tried to name a cow. And they're like, no, you can't name that cow because we're going to eat that cow. Aye yi yi. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You attach a name to it and it gets personal. Karen, how do people find out more about what you do and more about you?

They can always call me on my cell phone. That number is 551-262-4062. They can also find me on Facebook and Instagram under Karen Gonen Real Estate Broker, or they can just look up my hashtag, which is #KarenCares.

I love it. Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Until next time, remember, you are not alone.