Brain Fitness with Arnold Beekes

This is the Chris Project, where we discuss mental wellness, self-awareness, and mindset with entrepreneurs and experts. Set your perceived ideas and biases aside and let's go on our journey for yourself, for your family, for the world.

Welcome to another episode of The Chris Project. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is Arnold Bakus with braingym.fitness. Welcome to the show, Arnold.

Thank you very much. Happy to be here.

So why don't you tell the audience a little bit about Arnold and what he does at braingym.fitness?

Well, that's a lot in two questions. Uh, it's, uh, I'm, I'm care— well, I would label myself as an innovator and a trainer coach, which means that I create things myself and then I enable other people to apply it.

Okay.

Um, and a few years ago, I had personal experiences with both my sister and my mother with mental health problems. Mm-hmm. Um, at, at the same day, it was in 2019, at the same day I was accompanying my sister who was diagnosed with depression for the mental illness institution to discuss the program, which they try to force on her, where it's like, you have to do these classes and you have to do them again. And then, and actually those classes made things worse rather than better. Uh, and, but they had, I would say, economic considerations and say, oh, we still got a couple of spots in that course. Well, I already did it and I didn't like it. Well, it's good if you do it again. You see, right? Um, that created obviously a lot of stress with my sister. To make a long story short, I went with her to that institution to discuss with the management that this was not the right direction. And right while we were waiting outside, I'm painting a picture because I think it's very relevant and you will relate to it. Uh, she, we had to wait outside and then she saw a couple of other people who she knew from other classes. So she went over and had the discussion and I kept my distance. Then she came back and she said, Arnold, two of the people who were in my class committed suicide last week. Wow. So, and then we got our meeting. Right. And these people were, they were psychologists. They didn't care at all about the person. They didn't care at all about the story. They only cared about the utilization. And their main thing was, well, medicine, which is psychiatrist, not a psychologist, which didn't work because my sister is epileptic. And then they were pushing just their existing program. I said, why can't you do something new like psychedelics or anything else, or a new approach, whatever? And they looked at me like I was a total alien because they had no clue what I was talking about. Right. So that gave me a clear impression that these folks, they had a 4 or 5-year study at the university, but after that they didn't learn anything. You know, so, and, uh, so that was one part. Then I got back on my bike. So we had that meeting and I managed to get my sister out of that program. Then I went back on the bike, but back to the home of my mother where I was living because I was taking care of her. My mother has dementia and Parkinson's. Okay. So that was the situation where I'm like, everything, if you are getting into these situations, either from my mother's point of view or from my sister's point of view, you're totally screwed because there's nothing which, well, till this very day, what you can do for dementia and Parkinson's. So that's my mother's side. And my sister's side was like, no, you gotta do this. And it made things worse. So I was like, you really need to be working on prevention. You really need to prevent that you come in this unfortunate situation. And that is where my idea for Brain Fitness was born. I love that.

Did you have any, uh, education or training or experience around the brain, neurology, psychology, anything? Yes. Was this just a response to the situation? Yes.

I'm a certified coach for 50 years, so I have a lot of experience in working with people and helping them with their change and transformation process. And I've been studying for 25 years, the last 25 years, self-help, psychology, neuroscience, and now into consciousness. And that's all self-study. Yeah. Um, but huge. Yeah. Reading books, podcasts, articles, you name it. Yeah. So, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's totally self-taught on all these topics.

Okay. But this wasn't something where you were coming to the table with nothing to build Brain Gym. I mean, you had your experience and your knowledge to apply.

Yes. That is why I was surprised to come at it, I call it intentionally a mental illness institution. It's got nothing to do with mental health. That they, yeah, they really knew nothing what was happening in that area. Yeah. And they were just completing a program. That's it.

Yeah. And there's kind of an analogy you can run. I don't know about Romania where you live, but in the States—

This was in the Netherlands, by the way. I'm Dutch, but I'm living in Romania.

Okay. All right. So Europe, let's say, or the States in healthcare, not mental health, but healthcare, everything is based upon treatment. Nothing is based upon prevention. I mean, there's lip service, but there's— it's all about treating symptoms. And/or diseases, but really not the root causes of the diseases. Right?

Totally agree.

Yeah. And I can see that one of my colleagues who was an entrepreneur and had an exit went back and got his doctorate in psychology because of his experience with therapy as an entrepreneur, he thought it was— his experience was very bad. So he wanted to obtain the education and licensing so that he could do a clinic for entrepreneurs. But he and I were discussing that, how the model of treatment is not designed to really cure or solve anything. Like, the business model behind it is that you keep coming, right? And, and there— so, so there's really no incentive economically. There might be with the provider that they, they, you know, they really want to help this person get out of this situation, but there's— if they do, they're out of a job, right? Um, and, and so the model is, is, is in a lot of ways broken.

I don't try to catch you on semantics, but if it is broken, it means that at some point in time it was whole. But I think it was never whole. It was fair enough. It is set up like that by Big Pharma and Rockefeller and all those guys is like, well, we want you. Well, basically their money is we by selling medicine. That's, that's how they make money. And preferably not only once, but that you keep using them the rest of your life. Yeah. So that is their model. So, and they love it. So it's, it's a very good model for them. And so indeed, like you said, there is no incentive is like, hey, we won't pay you money if it doesn't get better. No, it's like, Yeah, right.

Well, and you said you were a coach. In what context? Like, who did you coach? What? Because I want to, I want to discuss coaching versus psychology. So what was your experience coaching?

Initially, when I started out as a coach, I was a field hockey trainer coach. So in sports, right?

Okay.

I got my diploma when I was 17 years old. Okay. Uh, that's what I did. Um, then I applied, then I got later on, I got to work in, in corporate world. I got leadership positions and I naturally, and, um, have a coaching style in my leadership style. That was a response to my father while we were growing up. I would say, well, most of my other— my father and my mother and my siblings would have now be qualified as mental illnesses, but my father was extremely authoritarian. He was a military officer. So I was like, I'm going to lead people and I don't want to do it like my father do this. So I was really going to the opposite, and the opposite of an authoritarian thing is a coaching style. So that is what I applied. I was very successful in, in the corporate world in doing that, and then that ended. And then soon after, I, uh, I decided to, uh, follow a training to become a life coach. So that, that, that is what, uh Yeah, well, so that is kind of my baggage. Your question is like, who's the target group? Mostly, well, people from their 30s until their 60s, something like that. And a lot of people are like, well, losing their job or not knowing what to do. Yeah, that is a bit of context.

So one of the things that having experienced both coaching and therapy, my therapy was never individual. It was in marriage therapy. So couples therapy. But then I hired a business coach about 3 years ago. And to me, the distinction between the models is, is the— at least the way I've experienced it, the intentionality of coaching is outcome-driven. So, I mean, I guess some people don't coach that way. I'm just talking about my experience. But, but coaching has a lot of similarities to therapy sometimes in, you know, self-reflection, self-understanding, self-awareness, you know, understanding why you behave the way you do, why you believe what you do, what you— why you think what you do. But rather than being trying to solve those things, like, okay, I was abandoned by my mother, and therefore I have emotional attachment issues. Okay. Coaching is not necessarily about going back and reliving those experiences, those traumas, and healing and those things. It's more about, okay, acknowledging that and understanding how that drives your behavior now and focusing on, you know, doing— I hate to use the word better, but like, you know, not allowing that to influence who you want to become or who you want to be. What are your thoughts on that distinction?

Well, I can recall in my coach training program,, that was discussed and it said, and, and you perfectly phrased it, is that therapy is most of the time focused on a problem in the past and, and how to— some kind of trauma. Well, we all have trauma, but it's like how it no longer blocks you today.

Right, right.

Coaching is more future-oriented, is like, okay, Where do you want to go? Make that clear and then help you take the steps to get there.

Right. Okay. So we're in agreement on that. Now I'm curious how like Brain Gym fits into that model. Like where in that paradigm is it? Is it coaching-based?

Well, that is why— but that is partly also a marketing thing. I call it training. I call myself a brain fitness trainer. Although I am also a coach, but I call myself a trainer, um, in order not to get into that discussion. And I, I give people tools to basically prevent their brain from degrading and optimizing their brain, because I'm convinced that all people have much more potential than what they're using.

I would 100% agree with that. 100%. And, you know, you, you, you touch on something that I think is interesting to me, which is this definition of a coach and the perception by the public or the purchasers of coaching services there is a little bit of resistance there, right? Like, I don't need a coach. I don't want a coach. And there are a lot of bad coaches, right? And like, there are a lot of bad therapists. There are a lot of bad accountants, whatever. But there's not a clear definition. Like, if you're going to ask the general public, you know, what does a coach do? There's not a— there's not a clear understanding of what a coach does. I think a lot of people's experience with coaching is one where they teach them. They're more of a teacher than a coach in the sense that they're, you know, like sports where you're, you're learning a skill or you're trying to improve a skill and the coach is giving you instruction and feedback. But there's more of a student-teacher paradigm than, you know, like, say, a professional sports— professional athletes that have coaches, they're not teaching them a skill. They're not giving them feedback on like, oh, your, your golf swing is bad. They're, they're, they're more into what I would consider a traditional coaching where it is like, okay, what are the What are the impediments that are keeping you from obtaining what you want?

Where are the blocks?

All of that to say, I understand why you would take up the moniker of trainer, because that is a distinction and it gets past that block that people might have around hiring a coach.

Yes. And what doesn't help is that it's not an official profession, I would say, is like where you need to get a governmental body, say, just like with a doctor or anything else. Like, yeah, anyone on the street you encounter today, like, can say tomorrow, I'm a coach. Yeah.

And there are, there are a lot of people that hold themselves out as coaches that really shouldn't be.

I mean, like, You know, yeah, but it's also— I can still recall, let's say, 20 years ago when, at least in Europe— well, in the US coaching was already starting, but in Europe it was emerging. And then there were a lot of trainers who didn't have any assignments, so they scratched their name trainer and say, now I'm a coach.

Right, right. Yeah. And, and I think, I mean, one of the, the, the coach that I have, I've had for 3 years, he and I have had this discussion about like how he has coaches. And, and I think that, you know, you, you, you don't want to hire a coach that doesn't have a coach. Would you agree with that?

Well, at least in my coach training, it's a prerequisite that I first went through the program as a coachee. Yes. So that you get your experience how it is to be coached. I'm a Sun Coach. That's just a name. It's like how it feels that you're being coached by a Sun Coach. Right. Yeah. And that was the first part of the program. And then the second part is like, okay, now we're going to teach you How to do that.

Right. So at Brain Gym, are there self-help tools where people can, you know, train their brain, whatever that looks like?

I don't know what that looks like. I have a 15-week training program where each week I have a 90-minute session where I share around a lot of different topics. I give some basics, I give resources. I share, and then it's up to the participants to, well, start thinking about it, researching, applying it, testing, changing their habits in their own life.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, not unlike a sports coach, the coach can only do so much. I mean, the work has to be done by the athlete. The work has to be done by the participant. And I think if you come to the table thinking that the coach is going to wave a wand and make you better, that's not the way that works. I can tell you that the work that I've done in the last 5 years, you know, most of that with the coach was some of the hardest work I've ever done. Not like physically, but, but emotionally and mentally, it's been the hardest work I've, I've done. It was harder than starting a business and, and having the stamina and fortitude to endure all the things that you do in business as an entrepreneur, it was harder than that by far.

Well, if you want to get results, you need to go inside and not only reflect but reassess and change things, which is not easy. Yeah. And apply them and then Well, it doesn't mean that everything is like within 5 minutes, oh, now I know it's changed. No. Some things take months and months and months before it's there.

Yeah, I think the way it was explained to me, and this is not by my coach, but another coach, that I thought was the best explanation was that our brain works primarily at a subconscious level. I mean, we think everything's conscious and reason, but there's so much going on in the background that we are largely unaware of. And taking those things, bringing them— I think it was Jung that said you had to bring them into consciousness to analyze them, like your beliefs, your habits, any of these subconscious, your feelings, any of these subconscious things that are going on. Requires one intentionality, like you have to do it, you want— have to want to do it. And then you have to do the work to change or replace those feelings, emotions, beliefs, habits. And, you know, it doesn't— things that are hardwired into your brain, you can't change, like fear, you can't do any amount of coaching to not have fear. That's an automatic brain reflex that is going to be there. When you feel in danger mentally, you're going to be afraid. That's just— you can't undo that. But there are a lot of things that sit on top of that, that trigger that fear response that you can work on. And I don't I don't know that you necessarily, at least for me, and I'm curious your experience, I don't know that sometimes those things ever go away. It's just how you learn to adapt to them. You know, it's, it's, it's how you process them, process them and then either work around them, work through them, whatever. So what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, a few years ago, I listen a lot to podcasts. There is a professor about emotion, but she was talking about, because people talk about unlearning And she said it's much better to talk about relearning because you cannot unlearn. It's like, yeah, there is something which has had an impact. You cannot undo that.

Yes.

Right. It, you, you cannot like, well, yeah, if you, if you do step 1, 2, 3, it's like it never happened. Yeah. So it's like, no, that's impossible. So it's still there, but it's like, how do you deal with it?

Yes. Yes, yes. I mean, I think about my own experience. My experience was that my mother did leave me and that I did have emotional attachment issues. And I had no conscious awareness of how that was affecting my behavior, my relationships, how I see the world. Once I gained that understanding, I cannot undo what happened and how that's in my brain. But what I can do is I can acknowledge it as a trait, a personality trait. It is who I am, right? And then I can modify my understanding of the world and my response to the world with that understanding. For example, I had an argument with my wife over this over the weekend. And it's the first time we've argued, like argued, not, you know, we've been married 32 years, but I'm like, arguing is like emotionally engaged and not happy. And we hadn't had an argument like this in probably a year. And I realized through, you know, and it took me a couple of days to sit with these feelings and process it with the understanding. And what I came to understand was why I was emotionally upset why I was unhappy about it was at the root, I was looking for something from her that she could not give me. And it all goes back to that, you know, trauma in my childhood, like, I— and so I couldn't do anything. I still had the emotional response, right? Like, I couldn't, I couldn't unlearn it, as you said. But what I could do is, is sit with it. And that's the, I think, the part that is most difficult, like sitting with those emotions that you're uncomfortable with, and really processing it, not trying to suppress it, not trying to distract yourself. But like, okay, I'm not happy. Why am I not happy? What, why? And that's It's not comfortable, it's not fun, but it can get easier for sure. I mean, it has in my case.

Yeah, well, that is the main thing about— I would call it suffering— is that you cannot make it go away. You cannot circumvent it. That is not there. The only way to suffering is go through it. And it's just fully experience it and try to understand where it's coming from and feel it, feel it. Really don't like, well, I shouldn't be feeling lousy. No, you are feeling lousy. That's okay.

Yes. Yes. Because, well, I mean, for men, you sound like you had— you grew up in an environment where probably where men were not supposed to feel— well, they could feel emotions.

For nobody, there were emotions.

Well, you could probably— you were— you were probably allowed to feel anger, right? That was okay. But all the other emotions were off the table, right? Like, you're not supposed to feel sad. You're not, you know, and so as men, I think we come to this collectively of like, we're not supposed to feel feelings. I know for a long time, I really disliked myself because I had feelings. Like I had all these feelings and all this emotion. And I'm like, there's something wrong with me. And it took me a long time to get— and that, I think, was just society programming me. Like, that was not— you know, I felt like my emotions were a flaw. Right. But then the idea of sitting in something that we're not comfortable with, that is not what our society is driven by. Our society is driven by largely hedonism. It is, you know, the pursuit of pleasure. And, and the idea that you would engage in something uncomfortable, that's nonsense.

No, at least you gotta escape it, evade it, distract yourself from it. Yes, yes, that is— I, I can totally relate to what you're saying. He said, well, it already starts with, with the phrase, boys don't cry. Yeah. So from a very young age, we're, we're used to ignore, and if it's not ignore, it's suppress emotions. And that is why at the later stage, so many men have heart attacks, ulcers, and all of these things, because all of your life you've been suppressing your emotions, and at some point in time, it's gonna erupt.

Right. That, that energy, if you will, does not go away.

It's still there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you still— yeah, yeah, yeah.

We think that— and that goes back to what I was saying, is that we think our conscious mind is in control. Like, oh, well, I can just be stoic and suppress this. I, I don't feel feelings. No, that's not the way your brain works. It doesn't.

Yeah, and, and, and that is extremely dangerous. And, uh, yeah, but that is the way our society is, uh, is set up. It's even in, yeah, in, in the— I call it corporate environment or the business environment, idem dito, is like you're supposed not to talk about your emotions, right? But what is any organization more than a group of people working together for a common purpose. They'd be like, why shouldn't there be emotions?

Of course there's going to be emotions. You're dealing with other people.

Everybody's surprising.

Right. Yeah. No, that's a very good point. And it is, that's, I mean, if you think about it, that's, and maybe this is your thesis is that The suppression of emotions, the ignoring of emotions is detrimental to just not just your mental health, but your physical health. And, you know, the— you're— that's why you have all of these mental health issues, depression, anxiety, that it's because you're not feeling the feelings. And you're on overload. Like, you can only get so much distraction, so much dopamine. But at the end, whether that's alcohol or sex or drugs or work or social media, whatever it is you're doing as a panacea, eventually it will run out. And you will not get the return on your effort and you're going to break. You're going to break and it's not going to be pretty.

Absolutely. And that is why I keep saying it's like you're in the swimming pool and you have a football and you press the ball on the water. For the first minute or so, you can do it. But if I say do it for 5 or 10 minutes, you call because yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then what will happen? Boom, the bull will come out.

Yeah, yeah. For our American listeners, he's talking about a soccer ball, but it works with any ball. It doesn't matter what the analogy works.

Yeah. So it's like that is what happening to many people. Yeah. And not only men because women is the same. I, I've been a guest on podcasts from India, whatever, and the same thing there's with women, like they're supposed not to show their emotions and everything else. So they can totally relate to what we are discussing. Yes. So it's, uh, I think it's a very dangerous thing and it's, it's, it's, uh, at the same time is like, well, I don't want to get into politics, but how can people watch it either TV or pictures of what's happening in Gaza and just like just continue with their meal and doing it. Like, doesn't impact me. Is it like— yeah, so if we—

there's— go ahead, go.

Yeah, more in touch with their own feelings and emotion. That also means love and compassion and peace and, and whatever. If we would exhibit more of those feelings, it would much more help society make it into a better place.

Yeah. And I think that— I think the reason why is that you can't selectively numb your emotions, right? You can't say, well, I'm going to numb the bad ones and I'm going to let the good ones you know, flow. I don't think it works that way either. I think you just numb yourself entirely and you can't feel either good or bad. You know, I, I think that to your point, talking about your sister, that's the pharmacology to deal with it is we're going to give you this serotonin reuptake inhibitor. That's what a lot of the antidepressants are. And what that does is it just suppresses your feelings entirely. It doesn't allow you to feel good or bad.

Yeah, in hindsight, I realized that my mother was also depressed already at a very young age when we grew up and she was taking medicine, but we didn't know it. And it's only recently that I was like, Oh, so my mother was depressed. She was given those medicines which you just mentioned. That's why my mother was always flat. Yeah, always totally flat. It looked like she cared about nothing. I have not seen my mother cry once in her life. And she became 92. I've never seen her cry. But she never gave me a hug or anything else. It was just totally flat. And that's when I saw it, like, that's what this medicine did.

You know, I have been on Lexapro for a long time. I've been off it, I've been on it. And I— it's interesting. Sometimes think that I can do life without it. I take 5 milligrams, take the lowest dosage they make. Because I don't— and maybe this is something I need to work on, but like, I still can't deal with the intensity of my emotions. I'll give you an example. The, the last time that I was off Lexapro, it was unintentional. I didn't get my prescription filled, I hadn't gone and picked it up, and I was off of it for a few days unintentionally. And I was driving my car and, uh, there was a song, an American singer by the name of Toby Keith. He's from Oklahoma. He's from my hometown. And he had died. And they were playing songs in tribute to him. And I'm driving along, and I'm listening to one of his songs, and I just start crying. I'm like, because I was sad, right? And I'm like, why am I feeling so sad? Like, I normally wouldn't do this. And then I'm like, oh, I forgot to take my medicine. But, you know, my daughter, who's going to be 28 very soon, she has opted— she raw dogs it, as she calls it. She just will— she doesn't do alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, any medication. And You know, watching her, it is beautiful because, you know, the thing I miss about life when I'm on Lexapro is the highs. Like, the emotional highs are just as low as the emotional deeps, right? And the dosage that I'm taking just kind of takes the edge off of it. I still feel happy, I still feel sad, but it's not as intense. So, you know, I don't know, that's the way God made me. I should— maybe I should just try it again and just, uh, work through it. I don't know, I'm kind of rambling.

Well, it might also be just a matter of getting used to your emotions and just experiencing them. And in the beginning, the experience might be more intense, and if you're more used to it over time They will also flatten because you're used to it. It's like, "Hey, I'm okay to cry." Yeah.

Yeah. And that doesn't— what concerns me is how irritable I get. So when I am anxious, that's how my— anxiety presents itself is I get very irritable and I don't like to be that way. I don't like to be that way around others and the ones that I love. Like, I don't want to be that person. And if I were going to say, you know, a fear of not being on medication, that's my biggest fear is I don't want to be— I don't want to be difficult to live with and deal with.

But if you think that way, that is the way you will behave. If you think, hey, I can be not irritable and not using the medicine, that's also a possibility.

It is. And it's an excuse. And at the end of the day, I think every person has to decide what is right with them. My children don't take any medication. And, you know, I think at the end of the day, it's, it's fine either way. But I don't, I don't think, like, I wouldn't take a higher dosage where I was before, where it was just no emotion. I'm not going to be there because that's not life. That's just being medicated. It's— to me, that's no different than trying to treat your, your, your mental health with alcohol. Like, there's no, there's no difference in my mind. You're just trying to suppress what's naturally there.

Yeah, absolutely.

Arnold, I have very much enjoyed this conversation. How do people, uh, find out more about working with you? And more about Brain Gym?

It's going to my website. It's called braingym.fitness, braingym.fitness. There are basically two products. One are called masterclasses. Those are videos, 90-minute videos where I, it's like I'm having a workshop with you, the client. And there are around specific topics like emotions, like aging, like your uniqueness, like curiosity, relationships. Those are the masterclasses. And my main training program, which is called From Fitting In to Flying Out, that's the 15-week training program. They can also find it on the website. And if they still have any questions or they want to work with me one-on-one, um, there's a link to my calendar. They can book a meeting with me and we can discuss with you want.

Excellent. Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Um, until then, remember, you are not alone.