Build Assets, Not Just Projects | Stewart Cohen

Hey creative, are you ready to discuss profits? The money, the ways to make it happen? The Profitable Creative Podcast is for you, the creative, how you define it. Videographers, photographers, entrepreneurs, marketing agencies, you get it. CEO of Core Group and author Christian Brim interviews industry experts, creative entrepreneurs, and professionals alike who strive to be creative and make money at the same time. Sound like you? Tune in now. It's time for profit.

Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. A special shout out to our one listener in Monticello or Monticello, Kentucky. I'm not sure if either is correct. I don't know if they robbed Jefferson's mansion and moved it to Kentucky. I don't know. But thank you for listening. Joining me today, Stuart Stuart Cohen of Stuart Cohen Productions and superstock.com. Welcome to the show, Stuart.

Thanks very much, Christian. I'm thrilled to be here. I'm excited.

We were just— and I'm excited too, although I got to tell you, I, I— this is the third of four episodes I'm recording today, so this is kind of a marathon sprint. Um, but I am excited. Uh, we were discussing in the green room your, your, uh, history, and I, I think we should start there. So why don't you give us the brief history of how you came to where you are?

Well, I will give you the brief history. I'm actually— I'm Canadian. I moved, I moved to the States. I went to University of Texas undergrad, worked as a photo assistant back in the days of apprenticeships, the way it used to go, and then I went back to film school in California. And after that, started my own business just as being a freelance photographer. And that was even before being a filmmaker because it was still back in the days of film when it was a lot harder to, to muster everything together. Um, started doing that, and basically I have been doing that my whole career. We started doing, uh, uh, commercials in the late '90s. So at that point, I was trying to get ad agencies and marketing firms to allow me to do the commercials and the still photography, at which point they weren't really feeling that back in those days. And so, and then, and so, so I had like a film career. And then on the other side, I had a still photography career. And one thing I did learn as, as an apprentice through one of the guys I worked for was about the value of licensing content. Mm-hmm. So early on, I started licensing my content as well through what was the predecessor of Getty Images. And when Getty came in and rolled up the industry, I was kind of in the perfect spot to benefit from that. And so I learned about licensing early on. But again, what I was licensing was my photography, that any photography that was not owned by a client. And Getty Images started doing footage, you know, live action stock, they called me to help kind of help organize it because they hadn't done it before. So I started licensing that content early on too. Now we're talking about, this is like, oh, I hate to say how long it is, but it's right around the turn of the century.

In the aughts, as they say.

Exactly. So 2020-ish. And Uh, so I continued to do that and had a really good run of doing that for— since, since then. I mean, there have been up years, there have been down years, trends change, you know. Of course, around 2005, we switched to digital in the still world, which was a big tumultuous change in that world. Um, and then right around 2010-ish we switched to digital, or 2012, switched to digital in the live-action world. And really, you know, we did— I've been around to have, you know, lived through the recession of 2008 and '09 in my business. And quite honestly, coming out of that when everything was digital, I've had the best run of my career. And so here we are with the advent of AI.

New dawn. Okay, I love that. I love I think one of the things that I try to talk about on this show, and I talk about in my book extensively, is this idea of not approaching the business, your business, through the lens of your skills and not trying to force whatever your creative passion is into a, a business model, but rather look at the, the what you see and find problems to solve, not necessarily through the lens of your skill set, right? So like if you're a videographer, you're looking at the world as a videographer as opposed to saying I'm an entrepreneur What problems do I see and how can I solve it? But then also this mindset of not looking at the paradigm of your creativity as, well, I can't do what I want and make money at it. You repurpose your creativity into that problem solving. And so I love the fact that you've You've done that. What were some of the challenges in doing that?

Well, one thing I will say is, and I've learned from your show as well, that I did not think it through. I will just say that. You know, when I sit back today or sit here today and read more and understand more about the business world, I will look back on earlier in my career and say that was not a smart business decision. You know, I was putting it all on black, so to speak. I was putting it all— I love to take pictures. I love to make visuals.

Right.

And by gosh, I was going to do that and I was going to— and it was a good time for advertising. And people— I found people that would pay me and pay us well to travel, shoot, and be happy. And the margins in that world were pretty good earlier on. I mean, they've gotten skinnier since. But so it was less of a business. And I didn't even know the word, like, what is it, like a service industry. We actually are, we are at the whims of our client. I've never really put that into context, but I've always been that way. And I enjoyed it because I enjoy the craft. Sure. Even though 85% or 90% of our time is spent finding jobs, pre-production or post-production, or finding the next job. And the only, you know, the other 10 to 15% is really playtime when we're shooting. Right. And, but, you know, once you're involved in a project, it's just fun. So that's not a business. That's great. We do not live by spreadsheets. We do not talk about projections. It's like we're a one-phone-call shop, you know. Granted, you hope to be busy and stack them up, but it was never really in, in, in, in the definition of what business schools today would call it. It was not a business.

Well, yeah, and I think that the technology— and this is not just current AIs, but really the last 25 years with the advent of the internet is technology has enabled this boom of solopreneurs, if you will. And I think AI is going to do it again. It's going to disrupt some existing solopreneurs' models, but it's going to create a lot more. That didn't exist. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the solopreneur model. But it's important in my mind to distinguish between that and a business that is not dependent upon you personally doing something for money to come in the door. Right. That's, that's a very different animal.

Right. So we're going to touch on both of those things because, like, I was never really a solopreneur. So the one thing— I live in Dallas, Texas, and I chose this because of the airport. Or actually, we— I ended up in Texas, but the airport was great. You could live well, as opposed to my friends that were living in Los Angeles and had a hard time making it, or in New York and having a hard time making it. So the one thing I said, I said my sacrifice was I lived in Texas, but what I could have here was a great loft with space and employees. So, you know, I think it was 18 months after I started my, my, my business, I've had an employee and I've had as many as 15 and, you know, down to 5. So that's less of a solopreneur. Yes. Although, on the production company, it's still dependent on me. Correct. To make the— bring in the bacon, so to speak. And I've tried to scale it with other people, and I didn't want to manage other people's creative careers.

Yeah, I mean, I think you're— you point out an important distinction because solopreneurs is not the only category there is the entrepreneur that has employees, but it still hasn't reached that threshold where it's not dependent upon the owner. And this is not to pick on you or creatives or—

It should be, though, because it's a really good point you're making.

Well, but it's true in 90% of the small businesses out there. Like, plumber is the same thing, right? Like he might have a couple of tradesmen that work for him, but he's still the one that if he gets knocked out by a bus, the business is gone in 6 months.

Right?

Right. And that is when the business can operate completely independently. This is not saying you're passive income. I'm not talking about that bullshit. What I'm saying is, is that the day-to-day operations are not dependent upon you, the, the founder-owner. That's when you have a business. And I'd say that it is a fraction— I, I would say less than 1% of the businesses that actually get to that point. And it's not really a size thing so much. I do think you have to have a certain size to, to support the people that are going to be doing the work. But it's really more of a mentality thing. And I say, I've said this on the show a few times, that like the entrepreneur's job ultimately is to figure out how to make money off of other people or other assets, not their own labor.

Right. Well, in that case, you know, I have not been successful because, and I would, that's where we from where I'm coming from, you put yourself back in the artist's— like, I'm an artist, then I'm not an entrepreneur. Now, back to your, your, your point about the plumbers. You know, a plumber could hire a multitude of other plumbers. Once they hire a head of operations, yes, they can manage it. That's a business. Yes. Then the plumber could go on vacation and he's still making money. So You know, to me, being an artist, the only way I could figure that out was to create the passive income opportunities.

That's, that's interesting you say that, and I want to talk about the passive income too. But I, I was having this conversation in my mastermind a couple of months ago with an agency owner that primarily did Google Ads. Strangely, they, they still exist. And he had just hired his first person, first employee. And his conundrum, his problem that he was presenting on was like, how do I get out of my head what I know, how I do things so that someone else can do it?

Right?

Right. And I think that's very common for entrepreneurs to be in that situation. Where there's this like, I can't replicate myself, the way I do things. And you proudly claim the moniker artist. As an accountant, I had the same problem. I didn't call myself an artist, but it was like, I'm going to let other people do things differently than I would. But I'm still going to be responsible for the end result. Good or bad.

You still have to touch it.

Yeah, correct. And that's a hard inflection point for a lot of people. Like, they just really can't get over getting out of it themselves, right? Like, I want— I still want to be an artist. I still want to participate. And that's totally fine. But understand, you're limited to you. And that's what I put back to this agency owner was like, You got to decide whether you want to be an artist or not. Like, if you're going to be an artist, then you're going to go a different path.

Right. And now the beautiful thing about, say, I mean, I'll say commercial art is I've been able to hire some really great people throughout the years that have really helped. So I don't do everything myself, but I do when we go on shoots. Of course, I'm directing and I'm shooting and that's my thing. But I have an amazing support staff. Right. I couldn't do it all alone. No. And, and, um, but yes, yes, like the— like you as an accountant, you still have to touch it. I still have to touch it, you know. You still have to put your mark on it, make sure it's right, you know. Um, can, you know, can you say if you were an accountant and you had, you know, a junior person and you got a really simple, you know, say tax return or whatever, could they knock it out themselves? And I have done that in terms of sending the guys that work for me out on something that's super simple, low budge. And I do it and I check it, of course. And that to me is really trying to help them go on their way as well, because we still have people that come up kind of through the apprentice world.

Yeah. And I assume that you're going to find a lot of people, you know, anytime you've got a professional skill, be it accounting or photography, you're going to find the majority of people with that skill don't want the headaches of being a business owner. You talked about like there's 80% of the stuff you have to do to do the fun stuff. They just want to do the fun stuff, right? Like they don't want to worry about that other stuff. And so there's always people that will fill that gap. But I want to make the distinction. I don't touch anything regarding client service, and that was not always the case. We're starting our 29th year in January of 2026. It was only after doing it 25 years, 4 years ago, that I hired a head of client service. And it's still remarkable to me how some clients that have been with us a long time, they're like, well, I need to talk to Christian. And I'm like, I don't make those decisions anymore. That's Chelsea's decision. And what Chelsea says goes. And that's a hard thing for me to get over to that point of letting that go. And some people adapting to that reality.

Well, ironically enough, I have a relationship with an accountant similar who— this guy was a junior at a big firm and I've stayed with him like we're talking forever. And I've always talked to him and he kind of joined a bigger firm and it's a similar situation to what you're describing. But quite honestly, at this point, yeah, I have a phone number I could call. There's a guy I'm talking to, but there's no— my loyalty is gone.

Yes.

Well, and I mean, as long as they do a good job, I'll stay with them.

Yeah, that's fascinating. How do you know if they're doing a good job? I mean, that is a question that I would ask.

Well, I do. And I do. And I am. But one, I mean, the other thing is customer service in terms of responsiveness, answers that make sense. Yes.

Yes. And the reason why I pick on you on that is because, like, I mean, I use the analogy of going to the doctor. How do I know if my doctor is doing a good job? Well, there's no way I can know.

Right?

Right. So it boils down to that service element. Like, do they respond to me? Are they timely? Do they listen to my questions? Do they, you know, act interested? Right. My doctor may not give a shit, but she acts like she cares. So I'm, you know, and I'll tell you, I'll tell you something even to extend that analogy, you know, I wonder if, like, as a professional, whatever your profession is, where you're doing service for others, if you really don't have to be that competent. If you could just take care of people where they felt cared for, that seems to be more important than your technical competence.

And I will tell you that there— and I remember somebody telling me this early, early in my career, Christian, there are plenty of people that are— and speaking in photography— that are not average photographers that have great businesses. And then there were great photographers that have really poor businesses. They couldn't manage it. So the one thing, and I think this— and I will say it's just luck, but a gift— is that I have a pretty good right brain, left brain split. So even though I'm doing quote unquote the creative, I could pretty much tell you at any second throughout a production where we are in terms of spend and profit. Right. And that's where I think a lot of, at least in the creative fields, a lot of the people struggle with understanding the business aspect of it. And a lot of people turn it over to— I mean, that's why you always hear about these Shyster situations.

The managers of creative talents, that's, that's, you know, whether it's a recording artist or whatever, I mean, that's what they do. They take that off of their plate and it's like, well, you go do your thing, I'll handle the rest of it. But yeah, to your point, there's all kinds of disaster stories around that, right? Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now.

Hey creatives, Delaina Ely here. I have a question for you. If you could pay yourself more, why aren't you doing it? For real. S corp is an option for you, the creative entrepreneur, to move your business to the next level, to pay yourself more, and to cut your tax savings down. Yeah, less money to the IRS. We want that, right? So why haven't you done it yet? What's going on? The reality is you probably have 50,000 questions in your brain. You don't know which way is up and down, and you're still too busy to do all those things plus also create, right? Well, the good thing for you is that Core Group is actually the place to be to get that S-corp election rolling. Yeah, we have an assessment. Let's see if you qualify. Come chat with me. Core Group, turning passion into profit.

So let's move into this passive income. So, um, I, I'm, I'm very intrigued because it's, uh, you're the first person that's come on the show and, and raise their hand for that. We've, we've had— we have clients, um, say, that are in your space that, um, routinely rent equipment. Like, and that's a similar concept, uh, of, uh— but you're the first person that, that has raised their hand and said licensing of intellectual property. So I'm curious to hear about it.

Well, renting equipment also means that you have to be on the job. Mostly, or, or, or you have—

no, I'm, I'm saying like you, you've got enough equipment that you can rent it out to others as a separate income stream.

And you, of course, living in OKC, you should have oil wells.

That is a, that is a great definition of passive income.

That is indeed. And unfortunately, early in the days of licensing, uh, photography and video clips It was really good money. It was better money than it is today in the media space. And you used to equate it to the people that own oil wells, except oil continues to pump out and the price per license of digital media has gone down and down and down because of the volume and how easy it is to access it. Mm-hmm. So anyway, I could continue that story, though. Early on, you know, I was working with Getty and anything that was not job-related, I could give to them and they would try to license and I would see the sales. And I was started getting checks that were pretty large and to the point that my office manager at one point said, what are you even doing this other thing for? And then, but working with the people at the time, there was a great researcher at Getty Images early days and she would say, We've been getting requests for XYZ and we don't have that. I guarantee you, if you go out and shoot it on your own, you'll do well. And we would do that. And they were right. And it was, it was a really nice— so what I would be doing, again, going back to being an artist, I would be shooting whatever concept it was, call it an oil well, whatever, in my own style. So, you know, without any client supervision or oversight. And then I would just upload it or give it to them to try to license, and it would get licensed. So I would be making money from that. But then at the same time, I would use that in my quote unquote portfolio, right, to help me get additional projects. And I think it was a really good circle. And, and it allowed me to show my own personal vision in content that was necessary to get jobs.

Yeah. So you're going to have to create the content to do your marketing of your services anyway.

So why not? And I was getting paid for it. Yeah. And that went on for years. And to this day, I still do it.

So sidebar here on Getty, you might have some color to this. I have read that the way they were so successful was by automating searches for their images, and basically going to Christian and saying, "You're using a licensed image without paying us. Here's a bill." And that automated scraping of the internet to find their images was how they really blew up and made all their money. Do you have any insight into that?

I mean, that I don't know. I know they did chase down infringements and that, look, that is copyright infringement and artists make money from licensing, you know, and so you're basically stealing from, you know, creatives. I do think, I mean, Getty's a hard example now because it's a $900 million or $950 million company. And I was with them at the beginning when they were nothing. And they— but think about it. You're talking business. They got their product for nothing.

Right.

Right. Their raw materials was zero. Right. So it was a great business for them, you know, contributors. And even to the point what I was just telling you about that story I told you about their creative researchers telling me what they needed. So they were telling me what they needed. I would create it on my own dime and they'd only have to pay me if they could license it. Right. So they got their product. Forget tariffs. Their product was free. Right. You know, and anyway, they've grown. And yes, I mean, the scraping of the internet and now they're into editorial. It's a totally different game. On a smaller note, though, I will tell you, and I touched on this in the green room, There was another company that was big before Getty called Superstock that started in the 1970s in New York. Okay. And the owners are still alive, or the first owners. And I talked to all of them and they said there was such a demand for photography, they, they would just, they couldn't get enough of it to try to license. These guys, when they got to be— when— and Getty, what Getty did, uh, to John, um, Jonathan— Mark Getty and Jonathan Klein came out of business school. They were investment bankers in the UK, and they put together some of the Getty fortune, and they saw the licensing industry as an industry ripe for roll-up. And they came to New York and they bought up all the big players. Like in 2 years, they just bought them up. And it was tumultuous and good and bad and whatever and ugly. I think these guys at Superstock turned them down because they said, why would we sell to Getty for all that money when we're doing so well? Well, 3 years later, they were on the skids. And, you know, aside from the competition from Getty, and these guys were getting old and they didn't evolve into the digital age. Company went through a couple iterations. Long story short, I ended up with it like about 6 years ago. Okay. And, and again, I'm a lover of imagery and they owned a lot of vintage archives and I ended up taking it on and, and vowing to invest in the technology and make it a world-class site. But again, we're small and it's artist-based. And it's run by artists and it's for the benefit of artists. So we still, we still pay the highest royalties in the industry. But so I'm still in the licensing world.

So did you, did you digitize all their archives?

Most of it was digitized, although we have a place right down the hall where we took on a couple of vintage collections that we have guys every day digitizing vintage assets.

See, I love vintage stuff. And I love vintage— I don't know why. There's some resonance when you start looking at something that's older than you. And it's just like, I didn't always feel this way, but at 56, I do. So what have been some of the challenges in, you know, you mentioned that it wasn't as profitable as the production company. What have been some of the challenges in profitability in that business?

Well, I think, I mean, one thing I touched on is that the licensing fees have dropped considerably because the Gettys are so big and they could just drop the fees and they, you know, and and they're trying to get market share as opposed to, you know, they don't, they don't need the cash. We do. Um, so, and the proliferation of photography and video in the world, but there's also a huge appetite for it. But then it becomes back to who you've talked to on some of your shows. You talk about search and you talk about SEO and you talk about how do people find your content. So that becomes the huge game. And it is a challenge because you could do a commercial that they have a $200,000 budget on and there's a set amount of profit in there. Granted, most of that's production costs, but there is profit. Whereas in the licensing world, you know, we might be licensing a picture for $100, of which $50 of it goes to the, to the content creator. So that's only $50 to the company, but we're running a company with 15 people, right? So you need to— with an expensive website, so you need to be licensing lots of content.

So has it worked out as you expected when you bought it 6 years ago?

Absolutely not.

Okay.

And back to the initial thing that we talked about, about thinking like a businessman and being like a businessman. Had I been to business school and did any kind of pro forma on the industry and/or that company, I would never have done it.

But you did.

And so you're here.

But you're— so that— okay. How would you go back 6 years knowing what you know now? How would you analyze the deal? How would you do it differently? Would you do the deal at all?

Here's my problem, Christian. I love pictures. I really do. I love video clips. And I felt like this was a really treasure trove of great content and nearly a piece of history. But again, that's thinking like an artist. As a business, somebody should have punched me in the head and said, dude, what are you doing? But again, you hear that story from a lot of entrepreneurs. They're like, how did I get into this? Why did I do it? And would I— yeah, 6 years ago, if you told me this is dumbest idea, maybe I would have listened and not done it, and I would have had more money in my pocket now. But at the same time, I have learned so much. I've been invited into so many new conversations, and it's opened so many different doors. So to me as an individual, it's really helped me grow and enjoy it. And I really feel like it's a community that I could be a part of for the rest of my career, you know? So I don't have any regrets. But again, that whole thing about, yeah, artists should go to business school, I will stand by that.

Well, so, so no, I'm just thinking, you know, I have no idea the terms of the price or anything like that. But I mean, like, is there a way that you could have either the initial purchase or what you did subsequently, done it differently knowing what you know now? Say you were going to do it because you were sold on it, but like, what would you have done differently?

Wow. Yeah, that's a big one. Well, it was a weird situation because I bought it out of being a mess. It was on a downward trajectory. So I ended up having to clean up a lot of stuff that I did not know I would have to clean up. Again, I did not do my due diligence. I had invested a little money in the company, so that's— but I hadn't done my due diligence. I didn't know in 2020 that an IRS agent was going to come knock on the door and say they didn't pay their, you know, whatever their taxes in 2014. Like, how would I have known that except if I had done a proper deep dive onto it like anybody purchasing a business should do, you know?

Or just doing an asset sale and not buying the company.

Again, again, again. And subsequently, I've purchased a lot of new collab— I've purchased a lot of companies like that, but they've all been asset sales because of that same thing. So we've acquired, we've acquired, um, I think 4 companies since I took over, also 4 other small agencies. So I'm trying to increase the scale.

Well, so, so, you know, the thing that intrigues me about that is that with the advent of AI, even before AI, uh, you know, all of the new content that's out there I would think there has to be real value in that OG authentic stuff that can't really be replicated.

I agree with you. And I think what we're actually, we're in the midst of doing, there's also a demand for, you know, AI stuff that's inexpensive and that fits a niche. A niche. So what we've done is we've taken all the AI off the site. And we want to be— this is true, you know, authentic photography. And we're going to take all that AI content and actually make a new site, different site, which will be low touch. Pop your credit card in, no account, you know, no billing. You know, it's going to be more of an e-com play where, say, for us, we're sometimes dealing with, you know, licensing video clips for feature films. So that has a longer lead time and you're dealing with more rights and clearances. So I love that though. It's when you see a movie and you see your name in the credits, I mean, it's cool. Or you watch a TV show and you see your clips in the opening credits. I love it every week. You know, that's why I love Parks and Rec because it had some of my clips in the opening sequence.

Well, Parks and Rec was brilliant anyway, but that's just icing on the cake. So, yeah, because essentially what you've done is you've learned And you've iterated. I comment, I'm at the point in my life where I don't really want to talk about any of my successes because I didn't learn anything in those successes. It's the parts where you made a decision. I don't even like to frame it as a mistake. You made a— no one decides to make a bad decision. Right. They make, they make a decision with the best information and the knowledge and skills that they have at the time. Right. And then, you know, obviously there are things you didn't know, things you couldn't know, things you hadn't experienced, and you learned. And now you're taking that knowledge and saying, okay, well, how can I leverage this in a different way and I can use that content to create AI images where I maintain the integrity of the original and use it in an alternative way. And I love that. That's entrepreneurial growth. That's how you figure shit out.

Well, absolutely it is. And the other thing, when you said that, it made me think, how did I get get so far in my career and have a really, really great career without knowing so much about business. And I just look back and think, you know what, I was really lucky. And I think it was just stubbornness and just moving forward. And it was a wonderful thing. And at the same time, as I'm, you know, at this point in my career, I'm happy to be learning these new things. And I wish I knew some of these skills back then, you know.

There's a, there's a great book, um, I don't remember the author, but it's actually on AI, but it was written back in the like '90s. And so this is really pre any of the algorithms that exist because of the, the internet. Um, it's called Why Greatness Can't Be Planned. And a computer scientist wrote it, which makes it a little dry. But it is, and it is kind of not entirely science. There's some meta science, metaphysics in it. But essentially, what he discovered in doing work with computer models is that he figured out that there's the process of achieving greatness is not linear. And of course, you know, you and I as entrepreneurs are like, well, yeah, no shit. I mean, that does not work that way. But he proved it in a way that his example was— one of his examples was the invention of the computer. And he said, well, in order for the first computer to come into existence, there had to be vacuum tubes. And vacuum tubes were invented as a tool in the laboratory to do experiments on electricity. It had nothing to do with creating a computer. But his point was, is that, like, as an entrepreneur, you see a vision of what's possible, and you see out there. You see the mountain that you're going to, but you only can see in the near distance a few things. There's not— you can't see the complete path, right? And that process is where you arrive at greatness. You can't sit back and say, this is exactly how I'm going to achieve this great thing. You can do incremental progress that way, but you can't achieve something unique and new.

No, no, you can't. But I do feel like, at least just from reading a lot, if one goes through it like an MBA program, that's what they try to teach you to do, you know. And that wasn't the path I took. But yeah, to your point, you can't summit the mountain if you can't get to the base of it. And it's like, and so many years are spent, and they were good years, but just trying to get to the base of the mountain, you know, um, because everything's an adventure. It's, it's all been an adventure, and, and there have been some, some left turns, some right turns, and, you know, U-turns, U-turns. And in the end though, as long as you can keep your wits about you, you know, all progress is forward progress.

Yeah. And, and I, I had a guest on here, his, his, uh, business is called Gamifying Business. And, you know, we had this conversation and he's like, yeah, it is a game. There is no winning or losing. It's just, it's kind of like those Choose Your Own Adventure books that they had where you got to go a different route if you made the decision. Right. And that's what it is. You can't view it as I'm going to definitely achieve this and then I'll be successful. That's not what it's about. Like, it is the journey.

It is the journey. And here's the deal. And nobody cares if you win or not. No, nobody does. It's an internal thing. And but it is— there's no question. And the journey you need to enjoy.

Absolutely. Because it's too hard to do if you don't enjoy it.

Like, right.

Right. And that's why a lot of people don't choose the path. And I get it. I'm not— I I actually think that entrepreneurship is some type of yet-to-be-discovered mental disorder. But, you know—

You're probably right. And actually, just this morning on the way in, I was listening to somebody talking about— I think it was like on CNBC or something, you know, about the difference between working for the man or starting your own business. And so many people who, especially later in their careers, who say, oh, I'm going to start my own thing. They have no idea what all the little bullshit we have to put up with.

No, but like, I think it was Peter Thiel that— it was one of the founders of PayPal was being interviewed and they were talking about the bank fraud that they were having to deal with. And he was saying, when we started out, we had no idea what that was. It wasn't even on our radar. We were tech guys, like, right?

PayPal.

Oh, right, right. Yeah. And, and he said— this founder said, had we known, we probably wouldn't have started PayPal.

Wow.

Wow. And that's a fascinating thing. And, and so, you know, you, you talk about these decisions we make where we don't have the experience and the— and we, we don't have all the information. Well, that's a good thing because You know, if you knew it, you might not make that decision.

That's true. That's true. Okay. I got a funny story though. Speaking of just that, I still, I like to read a lot and I read a lot of news, see what's going on. And I feel like that really helps in business, just understanding what's going on in the bigger business world. But yesterday in Dallas, there was this guy who had a subprime car business, made a bunch of money in it. But evidently the feds just arrested him because it was totally corrupt. But I looked at his name and I'm like, I photographed that guy. He's been in my studio. So I went back and I'm like, sure enough. So the great thing about what I do too is the people that we meet along the way, whether it's a felon or a Jane Goodall or a Henry Kissinger, You know, it's, it's these adventures, and it goes back to the journey that I've had and that, and the people you get to meet. And just like the story you're, you're relaying there about, you know, PayPal, it's amazing. And, and that has been my education, really.

Absolutely. How do people find out, excuse me, more about Superstock or your production company or you?

Well, the easy way is One, my email is just stuart@stuartcohen.com. Easy breezy. I'm on LinkedIn, Stuart Cohen. Instagram, SC Pictures or Superstock Images. And if you need to license any pictures, superstock.com. And we actually have a great team of account service people. I'm happy to talk to everybody, but we have researchers that they'll do the research for you. And you know what's great? You like being an accountant. We could go back and find computer rooms from the 1980s, which I love those pictures.

No, that's what I'm saying. It's like you're looking in a different world. It's like they really did things that way. Like, it's crazy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So anyway, listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a message and I'll replace Stephen. Stuart, sorry. Good God, I'll replace Stuart.

And then the next time I'm in Oklahoma City, we'll go drive out to your oil well and crack a beer.

Absolutely. I would look forward— I look forward to it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold you to that. Okay, until then, ta-ta for now.