Chic Spaces, Smart Strategies | Amy Barrickman

Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Cannonsburg, Pennsylvania. Never heard of it. Sounds cool though. It's got cannons in it. Joining me today, Amy Barickman, author of the The Living Room Design Formula. Welcome, Amy.

Hi, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.

Did I say the title of the book correct?

You sure did. The Living Room Design Formula.

I love it. Okay, so tell us a little bit about Amy.

All right.

Oh gosh.

Well, where do we begin? It was a cold rainy day in 1982. No, I'm just kidding.

I prefer the line from The Jerk. Where Steve Martin says, "I was born a poor Black child," but that's not politically correct now. So, go ahead.

That is a great movie though. Yes. Not all of it aged well, but it's a good one.

No.

I, let's see, I'm an interior designer. I started my business about 15 years ago. And in doing that, I started to realize pretty early on that there is a big gap in the interior design market. There are people who hire interior designers like me, and then there are people who want to do it themselves. But then there's this huge in-between where people want to have that look of professionally designed room, but they don't want to hire a designer. It's sometimes it's because of money, but not always. There are a lot of reasons why they wouldn't. So I realized that kind of early on and wanted to put together ideas about what if there was a blueprint, a formula someone could follow to get that professionally designed look, but not have to hire someone and work with them on a regular basis if they could still kind of do it themselves. So that's how I came up with the book, The Living Room Design Formula.

Okay. Uh, I have lots of thoughts.

So good. Share them all.

Well, uh, I have a question first. So did you create this book as, uh, a marketing tool for your interior design business?

I actually did not.

Okay.

That is a common practice, as you know, for profitable creatives and a great one. I found myself in kind of the opposite situation. I had a very successful— still have a very successful interior design business, but I also started branching out on social media. My sister challenged me to post one thing every day and I something went viral and then all of a sudden I have this following, but I really had nothing to offer them because they're all over the world and I'm just here outside of Philadelphia. So, um, there was no way to do a podcast call. I actually do— embarrassingly, I don't.

Okay.

All right. I feel that I should know that. Okay. My guess is it's near Gettysburg, right?

Yeah, there are a lot of birds.

Beautiful part of the state.

Lots of birds. Beautiful.

But hi, someone in Cannonsburg. I would like to come visit you and I will look where it is on Google Maps.

Okay. So stipulating that you did not write this book to drive business to your current business. And an aside, I, it's funny. I started to write the book, The Profit First for Creatives, with the intent to gain authority in the space. But as I wrote it, I realized that I didn't want it to be one of those business card books. And I've had people, you know, reach out to me and like, I didn't even realize even after reading the book that you owned an accounting business. And I'm like, good. That was the intent. So I, what immediately came to mind was a book called Save the Cat. Are you familiar with it? I'm not. Okay. So I haven't read Save the Cat. I read a derivative book called Save the Cat for Novelists, but it was written by a screenwriter about essentially how to write a script that sells. And it was— he didn't call it a formula. They kind of strayed away from calling it formulaic, but he said these, these elements are common. Like every great script has these elements. And so formula gives you this impression that it's like an equation. Like if I put A and B together, I'm going to get C. So how, how would you respond to that about your book?

Well, that is really partially the goal. I had a lot of people that were coming to me and wanted my help, and I simply couldn't service them. I simply didn't have the ability. So I thought if I just gave people a path that they could follow, they could get a great result. And in design, there are no right answers, just like in writing a screenplay, of course. But what I hope to do is really help people focus. So there were points when I was writing this book that I thought, okay, if I'm working on a professional design, I might take it this direction or this direction, but I had to choose one. I had to choose one that makes sense for most people. And I think that that worked because I've had a lot of people reach out to me and say, this really changed the way I feel about my house. It changed the way I feel about what I do, because a lot of times people are just living in spaces that are 85% finished. This gives them the ability to take it to not quite 100% because design is never really complete, but get them pretty close.

It— that, that just reminded me, um, our, our head of client service, her husband has been living in Nebraska, uh, doing his nurse anesthetist school for 3 years. And she's been commuting up to see him and he's been coming back to see her. They have a young child. Very difficult, you know, thing to do.

That would be hard.

She sometimes does meetings from his place and where she does it, there's this plant hanging in the background. And I'm like, is that a real plant? And she goes, no, Trevor, Trevor couldn't keep a real plant alive. He just bought this plant thinking that he was going to decorate his space, but that was where it ended. And so I'm like, well, you've got to bring that plant back. I mean, it's iconic now. I mean, it's just this sad little plastic plant hanging from— Right. Yeah. Sorry.

That's— but you just described what I hear all the time, which is, you know, maybe Trevor's not interested in design, But for someone who wants a great looking space, they do this and I've done it. We all, it's human nature. You're kind of like, okay, I'm gonna do this and you go out and you get something and then you get home and you're like, well wait, now what? And where does it go? What goes with it? I wanted to give people a way to check, use checks and balances to make sure that when they are buying things, they're kind of going in the right, they're in the right lane. They know where they're going. So that they can gather it and that it's not stressful and it's not annoying to them. It should be a fun process.

Well, the, the, what you said about writing the book where you had, you know, as a professional designer, I would, I could go this way, I could go that way, but you needed one for the book. I equate that to what I tell people, uh, about Profit First, uh, you know, is kind of like a, um, a chef. Like, chefs don't necessarily use recipes, right? But that's because they've used the recipes, and then now they understand what they can change and what the change does. And, and so it's like, if, if you're going to do Profit First, or if you're going to do, uh, design, you know, follow the recipe until at least you have some understanding of, of what those elements do.

Such a good comparison. So accurate for designing a room, designing a home, and of course starting a business.

Yes. So let's talk about that for a minute. Uh, how, uh, tell us about your interior design business. How did you get into that?

Well, it wasn't a choice. I was forced into it.

No.

Okay. Uh, that's not—

non-consensual interior design.

Non-consensual interior design. It felt that way. No, um, this is what happened is I, well, I wanted to be an actress. I moved to New York and I did not love the lifestyle of being an artist, so I got into sales. I did pharmaceutical sales, and that was a really great career path for someone. I mean, it has a nice, you know, I had expenses, I had budget and car and all these things. But I really didn't like that. I didn't like selling something that wasn't mine and I didn't love it. So despite the fact that, um, I had this great setup, I felt like I wanted to do something else. We moved outside of Philadelphia and I had this house that I had to decorate and I really didn't know what I was doing. I went back to design school and, or I went to back to school. I had already been to school. I went back to school to study design and I fell in love with it. I thought, I wonder if I could make money doing this. I know that's a question you sometimes address. So I thought, I wonder if this— if I could actually make money doing this. Now, remember, I'm starting from a pretty good salary, so it was not easy to just say, oh, let's just give that all up and then I will start doing this and see if I can make money.

Go from making money to spending money.

I mean, exactly. Yeah. And with no prospects. So I— but this is the interesting part, is I just felt I had to. I was doing this job that I didn't love. I really had a great setup and I still wasn't happy. And I felt that I really had no other choice. So I had reluctant support from my husband. He supported me, but, you know, obviously he wasn't thrilled about it.

My wife, my wife cried when I told her that we were starting a business. So you're ahead of the game if, if he was supportive.

So she gets it. Yeah, she gets it, right? Um, so I went, I started from square one. I started by working for someone else, and I did that for about a year, and then I was like, I really want to do this. So I went out on my own. I felt like I really had to kind of claw my way to learn all the things and do all the things. But it blossomed pretty quickly, and suddenly I found myself having a lot of clients and not a lot of support staff to get it all done.

You know, I, I— this is from an outsider's perspective from interior design, because when I think initially about interior design, I think like at, at even an architectural level and like high, very high end, right? Um, and I, I think that, that obviously is a limited market, right? To be able to pay for that. But then I've even seen like furniture stores that offer design services, right? To help sell their— so there seems to be, like you mentioning this gap. I see a lot of people that would want interior design service of some kind, but not at the full-blown level. Is that accurate?

Absolutely. And really the process of hiring an interior designer and working with an interior designer is a very intimate one. You're working on such a regular basis. I know everything about my clients. I know how many pairs of underwear they own. You know, it's like a ridiculous thing. Pause.

Why?

Well, if I'm renovating their closet, I have to know how much space they need.

You count their underwear?

Okay, I'm exaggerating.

Are you taking hyperbole? Are you taking their word for it? You're not auditing their underwear?

I'm not auditing it, but I'm looking in a drawer.

Okay.

All right.

I'm sorry.

The point is, it's—

Unpause. You're good.

Go ahead. Unpause. The point is, it's so— I know everything about them. I know, you know, whose son drags mud in the house. I know, like, it's such an intimate relationship and it's one that really you could not replicate on this widespread basis for people who, you know, you have to work with someone who can afford to pay you for all that. And they do get a great result. But the cool thing about this is the only person who knows their house better than their interior designer is the person who lives in the house and owns it. So for people reading this book, they know already all the things they need to know. They just don't know how to put them together. And make the best design product because how would they? I mean, how often does someone design a space in their life? Maybe 10 times depending on, you know, how often they move. It's not a skill that you're doing every day. It's impossible for someone who is not a professional to know all of the tricks and the trends and the ways to put things together.

So do you see this maybe evolving into some type of microservice offering where Maybe you consult ad hoc, like they send you pictures and you, I'm just asking.

Just, yeah, no, that's a really, it's definitely on the radar because I have been thinking what other ways can I provide services? So right now, obviously I have the book, The Living Room Design Formula on Amazon, but I also am producing YouTube videos. And trying to get a lot of information out there for people. And then yes, I would like to maybe set up a cohort and see how it works. I was thinking maybe it's a group of 10 people and we meet via— Skype's going away— one of those services. Um, we meet one of those services. I did.

How old are you? You don't look old enough to use the word Skype.

Oh, you're so sweet. Tell me more things like that.

I'm just saying, although you did work for some pharmaceutical company, so, you know, right?

So yeah, no, I am 42, turning 43. All right, I'm certainly familiar with Skype. But yeah, you're right. Oh my gosh, that really does, David.

Um, so anyway, it gets worse, I promise.

So I hear. Yeah.

Like The Jerk. I mentioned The Jerk. I mean, how many in the audience are even going to know what that is? Or even Steve Martin.

Like, oh, sorry. Well, if there's anyone listening who has not seen The Jerk or doesn't know Steve Martin, this is a gift.

It is.

This is a gift for you to look up Steve Martin, particularly The Jerk. Really any Steve Martin movie. You just opened up a whole world to yourself of humor.

Did you know that he wrote a book of poetry?

I did. I haven't read it.

Cruel Shoes.

I've heard, I've heard of it. My aunt is a huge Steve Martin fan.

She told me about— yeah, it's, it's that, that poem, uh, in, in itself is actually hilarious. Um, you need to, you need to go read the poem Cruel Shoes.

I'm— I need to get the book. Yes, it's because we all need a little more humor in our life.

Yes. Well, there's another, and this is me being politically incorrect, there's another poem in there called She Had the Jugs. So pick it up, you'll love it.

I love it.

Okay, so you've been in interior design how long? 15 years. Okay, and you decided to write this book. So 15 years you've, you've seen some shit. And you—

That's for sure.

Yeah. And like you have the chops and you've experienced enough. What was the light bulb moment to write the book? Like, I'm sure this wasn't just an impulse thing.

Right. People have been asking, how long did you work on it? And The answer is anywhere between 14 years and 1 year, because I have been— I have had this idea. I've started gathering these thoughts early on. Really, it happened quite quickly because I had some clients I was working with that they'd be like, oh, can you help my sister? Can you go to my mother's house? Can you do this? And next thing I knew, I was really quite overwhelmed, and I felt like I wasn't able to help anyone. Really thoroughly because it is— in order to do a really good job, you have to know so much about a person. So that's when I thought, I just wish I could direct them to something. Just today, my cousin sent me a text message like, I am renovating my master bedroom. I'm over my head. And I was like, go to chapter 3 and you'll see the section about this. And that applies to this part of your situation. So yeah, so I've been working on it for a long time, seriously for a year. But, um, before that I had been gathering, I had been putting lists together because there are a lot of checks and balances that I kind of refined over the past 15 years that are really useful to someone who's just a homeowner and wants their space to look great.

Yeah, so I, the there's a time and a financial commitment to writing a book. Um, what are your expectations around that? Like, you've already invested the time, but you've got to spend time marketing it as well, right? Uh, what are your— what are your— what were your expectations when you decided to write the book, and have they changed?

That's such a good question. I know, I ask really good questions. There you do, you do. I think there are a lot of people out there who either have written a book or are, or want to write a book. And I liken it to having a baby because at first you're like so excited, this is going to be great. And yes, I will do all those things. I can't wait to market my book. That is going to be so much fun. And then you're, you know, you're pregnant and you're like, oh, this is kind of the pits. As I'm writing the book, I'm like, "Ugh." It's up and down. I'm so excited. This is going great. And then I'm like, "Oh my gosh, what am I doing?" Then the editor gets their hands on it. You're like, "Oh, there are only 4,357 edits.

Great." The editing process is brutal.

It's brutal. And then you go through cover design. You're so excited to see it and then you're like, "Oh, but I want this." So anyway, the reason I answer that way is because, yes, I went into this with open eyes knowing it's not just about putting the book out there. It's about getting it out there and letting people know about it. And that's really what my goal is now. But definitely I went in thinking, oh yeah, this will be so much fun. And now I'm like, oh wow, okay, I need to stay focused on the marketing part. Like, I kind of almost taken a break in a way that I'm just letting things go for a little bit and refocusing my efforts.

You said having a baby. I've never had one, so I can't compare that. I would say it's more like raising a child. Like, you know, it is in the truest sense some of the best in the world, best in your life. And the worst in your life. Right. As I tell all of the new parents, you know, children ruin your life. And that's true because your old life is done.

It's gone.

It's gone. It doesn't exist anymore. But, you know, I say that tongue in cheek.

I agree completely. And I love my life with kids. But you're right, that, that other person is gone.

Yeah. My, my, I, I remember when we had our first child, it was the weekend. My wife was somewhere and I decided that I needed to run up to the office. Uh, and I was in the car before I realized that my daughter was asleep in her crib. And I'm like, oh, I can't go anywhere. Yeah.

Yeah, I remember that feeling, especially when you're a new mother and you're like, you wake up and for maybe a few minutes, if the baby— let's say you're in the hospital and the baby's in the nursery, and then you're like, oh, wait, I'm a mom. Yeah, I have a child.

Yeah, I remember, right? They— we get discharged from the hospital and they're helping us put the car seat and then we'd bought the wrong car seat. And so it was way too big. And we're putting this tiny human in here. And, uh, and we get in the car and we just had this overwhelming feeling of like, now what? Like, wait a second. Aren't you gonna give us some instructions? Uh, yeah.

Yeah. Like, are you really just gonna let me take this baby?

Yeah. Like, I don't know what I'm doing.

And really, writing a book, in so many ways, it's the same. The writing was like pregnancy for me. It's like, you're excited, you feel great. You're like, oh my gosh, what have I done? How am I going to get to the end of this? And then now you're right. It's like having this child. Like, really, people are like, that's so exciting. I'm like, it's really weird. It's really weird. But occasionally I'll get a message from someone who I don't know, because everyone you know, they're like, the book is great. Oh, it's awesome. And I'm like, well, you did— you probably didn't read it. And that's Okay.

My wife still hasn't read mine, so.

Right. And that's fine. But you just love me, so you're going to say that. And occasionally I'll get a message from someone who either I don't know or it's someone that doesn't have to tell me this. Right. Like, it was one of my friends' mothers gave this to her daughter. So my friend's sister, but it came through the mother is the point. And she is not someone that I have her cell phone number, but I know who she is. And she texted me and told me how great it was. And I was like, oh my gosh, this was worth it. Like, it really is helping people. And, you know, we don't feel that way that much with our kids. Just kidding. We do. My kids are great. I love them. No, but, you know, there are a lot of moments where you're like, did I do this right? Are they good people? And then they do things and you're like, like, oh, they are good people. This was worth it.

Yeah. I had a similar moment when somebody reached out to me from that I didn't know that had read the book. I put my actual email in the book and a phone number. And— Oh, wow. Not my cell phone number. It was a separate number. So, but I still get texts and stuff. And Um, one person reached out and I ended up talking to him. And, um, the, the, there's a, um, chapter in the book, it's actually the last chapter of the book, it's called the Ham chapter. And he was listening in on audio and, um, his daughter was listening in the car and she said What does ham mean? And, and he's like, I don't know if this is age-appropriate to share, but I'm going to go ahead. And he said, well, it stands for hard as a motherfucker. And she was going to softball practice and she's like, oh, I love that. I'm going to go ham. I'm like, I'm shaping the minds of America's youth.

Thank you. You've really— you're leaving your mark. Yes.

That is not necessarily a good one, but. Maybe a skateboard.

Same thing we do with our kids. I mean, I said a word the other day that I was like, oh, people don't say that anymore. I probably shouldn't say that in front of my children.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So back to the slip. Back to the interior design business. What? Yes. 15 years. You've seen some shit, as I said. What are some of the biggest challenges looking back that you had to overcome in starting a business? Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now.

Really good question.

We've already stipulated that I only ask good questions, so you don't have to— you don't have to say that anymore.

But that one is better. Oh, it's a higher level good question. Okay, on a good question scale, it's even higher than others. Okay. Um, and it buys me time to think about all the challenges.

What was the first one that came to mind?

Faced. The first one that came to mind was contractors, working with contractors.

Mm.

I don't want to scare people off, um, because we already know that it's challenging to work with contractors. Um, but really with that, I would say also is kind of scaling the business. And I don't just mean selling more to more people. In design, you start out— most people do at least, you know, I started out on smaller projects. Going in, working with someone by the hour, helping them rearrange a living room or a bedroom. And then you start working with these people, they like you, you have the trust, and then they want to renovate, and then we're moving walls, and then we're building additions, and then we're building houses. So the big hiccup for me was always figuring out how to work with these other contractors in a way that benefited the client, but still got, still gave us a really good product. Um, and it's something probably still working through.

Well, for those of you that aren't familiar with interior design, it's, it's a strange hybrid. It can be a strange hybrid business model because part of it is, uh, service and then part of it is, you know, essentially construction management. And those are two very different things, um, and, and, and two different ways to make money. And it can be— it can be hard to put those two together.

Absolutely. And I got into it thinking, okay, I'm— I had to try different business models. So first I'm just going to charge a flat fee per room. Well, first project, and I couldn't do that. Because even the most wonderful people who would never want to take advantage of you take so much advantage.

You should have asked me. You should have asked me. I should have told you 10 years ago. That was a bad idea.

So then I thought, I'll only charge by the hour. I'll just have an hourly rate, which is still essentially what I do. But as I learned more and got more into the industry, I realized a lot of this business is having access to products that people can't just order online. Now that's changed quite a bit even since I started. But as a designer, you really need to be a wholesaler. Well, that comes with a whole bunch of challenges because now you need a receiver. You need to have someone who's going to deliver the product for you. And you're not protected by a big company who will take back your return if it doesn't fit or, you know, if things come up. So that was a whole layer of business I had to unveil. And then getting into the construction contractors, at least in my area, probably most people listening can relate, it's a very expensive thing. So I wasn't looking to make money on the construction. I didn't want to. It was already so expensive. But you have to be compensated. Yes. So then I'm charging by the hour and, um, I had to try different models like At first, a contractor would say, well, hey, I'll give you like 10% of the thing. Well, I hated that feeling. Hated that. Even though a lot of designers operate that way. So what I'm trying to say is every business is different. And for creatives, a lot of time we're looking at these different facets. And I don't think anyone could have told me anything without me trying it that I would have really listened to unless I went through it because You know, you're bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. You're like, I'm going to make it work. I can do it. And then you're like, oh, actually that there's a reason why people do it that way. Yes.

I saw your, I saw your actor's chops there. I mean, you, you nailed it. Um, I, I'm curious. So like, I'm thinking about, uh, contractors and then I'm thinking about architects and the way they bill and, and. You know, like architects typically have a percentage of the contract, you know, they're 1 or 2%. Have you ever tried to do that on the whole thing? Like, so they're building or they're renovating and you're so like, well, just like you're paying the architect 1%, you're going to pay me 1% or half a percent. Have you ever tried that?

Right. I haven't. And I think it's interesting for an interior designer to try. I think that for the way my business has come up, I'm not doing a lot of like whole house builds.

Yeah.

Right. So if you're doing a whole house build, that makes a lot of sense.

Or even a full renovation. I mean, have you tried a full renovation?

Here's the other challenge with design specifically, and maybe architects also face this, but I think less so. What I do is like putting together a puzzle. So we get those first pieces in, but I have no idea what the center of that puzzle looks like in the beginning.

You don't have a picture? You don't have the picture on the box?

I have a— I have like, I saw the picture a few weeks ago. But you don't have it in front of you? So it's in my head.

Okay.

But I'm not looking at that specific picture. I have an idea. I know it's gonna look something like this. But what I'm doing is constantly changing every week that I'm meeting with the client. So while I can put out a budget, it's really going to fluctuate. People have ideas about how much a sofa should cost, and then they have ideas about how much a rug should cost. And the person who thinks that it's okay to spend a lot on a sofa may not necessarily spend a lot on a rug, Or they might think they're going to spend a lot on these things and then come to me and say, oh, look, I just found this one at Pottery Barn. So, and I want to be fine with that. I don't want to have to sell a certain amount of product. Yeah. Which is why I maintain an hourly rate no matter what. If I buy something for someone, they get a big chunk of my discount. I have to keep some to manage my business costs, but at the end of the day, I've gone by hour, and that was at the advice— actually, see, I do listen to some advice— that was at the advice of some industry professionals kind of early on. They saw this shift happening in design. Formerly, designers lived only on selling stuff, but now with the internet, you can really kind of get anything. Yeah, so that's how I came to this conclusion. But I think it's interesting, I've been doing less and less of the full projects. I just have a handful of clients I've been working with for most of them 10 years or more. And that's who I stay with.

And I haven't really taken on a new job since COVID Yeah, pricing is one of those things that fascinates me because it is, uh, it's very nebulous for most things. Uh, and there's so many different variables and trying to figure out like, how can, how can the business owner extract the most value that the customer or client is willing to pay. And it's not, you know, if you're selling a product, it's easier. But even that's not easy. I use the example in the book about water and how, you know, anybody that says that, oh, well, my business is just a commodity. I can't, I can't change my pricing. I use water as an example because you go through getting water out of the tap, what that actually costs versus bottled water from Sam's to Evian. You know, I mean, like, no, their pricing is not— it is an art. It is not— there is science behind it, but it is an art. For sure. Um, have you heard of the Pearl Collective?

It sounds familiar, but I can't place what it is.

I, I enter— and I don't— I apologize, I don't remember her name. I interviewed her for the book. Uh, she's out of Colorado, but she, she runs a collective of interior designers for like the business aspects of it. Um, yeah, so really smart.

Yeah, and that's a great avenue for someone who wants to build a design business is, you know, I don't necessarily recommend doing what I did, which was, uh, just kind of going it alone. And I tried, to be honest, I tried to find designers I could work for, and I did work in like kind of a showroom situation to, to learn the business. But what I really wanted to was to work under— I wanted to work under another designer's umbrella. I wanted to have my own clients, but kind of use their resources and give them a portion of what I made. And I couldn't find that. But what I did was with my own business, I started doing that for other people. So, I've had a number of designers who have worked under me, and I still work with one where she uses me as her resource, and I take a portion of everything she bills. And that's worked out really beautifully.

Is there any branding where, like, she's not acting in your name, or she is?

Yes, she is. So she is, you know, working under the Barrickman Design Group umbrella, and she loves that because, you know, unlike me where a client's like, can you do this, or what about this, she can go, oh, I don't know, I'm gonna have to ask. I'm gonna have to ask her, which she may or may not actually have to ask me. But, um, you know, it gives you sometimes some protection, whereas obviously people I work with know I make the final say. Yeah.

And I think that's not a bad business model for any creative business, uh, where you have some very talented people. Um, they don't necessarily want to work for somebody else. They want to be self-employed and have that flexibility, but they don't really want to build a business. Uh, and, and the distinction between that is a business A business functions without the owner's involvement. And it took me, oh, 27 years to build that. Shouldn't have, but it did. Like, if I don't show up, the wheels keep moving in all aspects. Like, that can't just be the work. It's got to be all the marketing and the finances. It's got, you know, you've got to have all of those bases covered. But creating a business is hard. And I made it harder, but it—

We all do.

Yeah.

I definitely made it harder than it needed to be.

But, you know, it's distinct from, I want to be a solopreneur. I want to be a self-employed, whatever you want to call that. And that's not denigrating those people that choose that path, but I think it's important to know up front what you want, because, you know, if you, if you want to build a business, understand it's going to take more time, more money, more blood, sweat, and tears, but it's, it's distinct. It has value in and of itself beyond you, uh, beyond you actually showing up and punching the clock, right?

And I would say that if you have a burning desire to build a business, absolutely. Go for it. But if you don't have a burning desire to build a business, don't. There's no reason to. I know there are so many great opportunities, so many more than when I started 15 years ago, where you can be that solopreneur and you can be creative and profitable, but you don't have to be running a big business. So I think that's such great advice that you're giving is know what you're getting into and decide, do you want to be the person who runs the business? If you do, Go for it. But if you're not sure, then find your other opportunities.

Yeah. And I can, I have said this many times, the business reached a point where it was limited by my, by me. Like every business reaches the potential, right? Uh, or, or is going to, is going to stall out at the level of the owner. Um, and For me, making the decision to grow myself to be able to grow the business beyond where it was, which actually initially meant shrinking it, but that's a different story. But I knew that I had to step backwards before I could go further forwards. That was harder than starting the business.

And interesting.

And, you know, I often kind of wonder maybe I shouldn't have done that journey. Like, I'm glad for the opportunity and I'm glad for where I ended up, but it was fucking hard. And that's, yeah, kind of like you were talking about with the book, you know, it's easy to get caught up in the euphoria of something new and that's all fun and games, but Right. Then you got to go do the work.

Of course I will do that. I can't wait. I'm so excited.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then famous last words. Reality hits you, but it's still good. It doesn't mean that you lose that drive. It just— there is a point of, you know, you get tired. And I've recently been just trying to be like, you know what, that's okay. I'm not on I don't need to be breaking whatever goal every day. It's okay to have a week where I'm kind of taking a back seat, and that makes me better when I get back to it.

Well, if you, if you haven't listened to the episode, uh, with Melinda Jackson, she's a PR professional.

I haven't listened to that one.

Uh, go back and listen to that. She's younger than you and I, uh, but she's already figured that out. She's like, I'm not gonna let other people define my success. Like, I'm not— Love that. Yeah. And it's not nefarious. It's not like people are trying to manipulate you with their expectations, but it's real easy to get caught up into doing something for somebody else or because you think that you have to, right?

And especially when you have clients.

Yeah. Oh, 100%. Um, I'm, I'm going to give, uh, you a resource and I'll connect you afterwards. Uh, Joshua, Joshua Schwartz with Pubvindo is an agency that, um, exclusively works with authors and, uh, promoting their books. And I've used him and, uh, been pleased with the results.

So, um, shout out Joshua Schwartz and Melinda Jackson.

Yes, Josh didn't have an interview. I don't think—

I know, I just am writing these things down.

Yes. Okay.

How do we find out there listening? Sorry for the delay.

How do we, how do we find your book? I mean, Amazon? Yeah. But do you, do you have a website? Do you want to say this?

Yes. Well, two things. First of all, I have a website. If you go to www.livingroom— I'm sorry, www.lrdesignformula.com. So LR for living room. www. Do I even need to say that?

No, no, we're going to put a link in the show notes.

So, so that will be there. But also, one of the resources that I'm providing to listeners is a free— it's really a taste of the book. It's how to create a gallery wall in your home. So it's an instant PDF that you can download if you go to www.gallerywalltips.com. Tips.com, gallerywalltips.com, um, you can download this PDF instantly and that will give you all the instructions to create a beautiful gallery wall. We all kind of have that lonely wall somewhere in our home that just needs some love, and a gallery wall is something that a designer usually will put together to showcase. It can be photos, it can be artwork, it can be a number of things. But I give you all the tips, frame sizes, frame recommendations, all those things based on your measurements are in this gallerywalltips.com. And also I am on YouTube and Instagram and TikTok @BarrickmanDesign, and my last name is quite unfortunately spelled with many letters, which is—

that was hard as a kindergartner. Well, no, you're married, so you didn't have that name.

I'm married, so actually my maiden name was probably worse. But still, why didn't I marry someone with last name of like Ford or Smith or, you know, because that handle may not have been available then. So Barrickman Design, B-A-R-R-I-C-K-M-A-N Design.

Well, I don't have that problem. My, my daughter, I will also recommend her episode. I interviewed her, Mackenzie Brim. Uh, she's a figurative oil painter, uh, and so I have a ton of her stuff in my house. And so I don't have any blank walls.

You don't have any blank walls?

No, but I will download the PDF to make sure that they are displayed appropriately.

Well, that's the thing, is it will give you the framework for how to make— to really honor her artwork. Because— and I, I'm sure your home is lovely, I'm not making a statement about it, but I notice sometimes people kind of just like splatter art all around. I would like to honor her artwork. She should have a gorgeous collection all on one wall. It makes a dramatic design effect, and it's great to really bring all the colors and depth of her work into one area. So download it.

I, I will download it, and thank you for the resources. Sure. Listeners will have all of those links in our show notes. If you like what you heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you heard, shoot us a message. Let us know what you want to hear and we'll replace Amy. Until then.

I knew that was coming.

Ta-ta for now.