Construction and Corruption: Roy Coughlan

I know I had conversations with people, 'cause it was never that I was embarrassed to say these things, you know? Like, so I was, I mean, I've had over 100 court cases, so I'd say as it was, I remember having a conversation one evening with one guy who used to train Navy SEALs. It was him and another girl. And when I told him all the stuff that I went through, he started crying and he said he's never witnessed anything like that. It was like so much, because I had so many different things that I'd witnessed. So that was one of the things, 'cause sometimes you think you're like a failure because of what's happened. And when different people are kind of telling you that, 'Wow, you're strong for standing up for this.' And, you know, even like I screamed at a judge 'cause different things that I've witnessed, I could see corruption and I kind of, it was like standing in my own feet. I was like, I'm not gonna tolerate this anymore where people think they can control me. I was born free, so why do they think they can just pull me left, right, and center and kind of scare tactics into, oh, we'll publish, like say in Ireland, we'll publish it in the newspaper unless you sort us out. Like, you're broke.

This is The Chris Project. Where we discuss mental wellness, self-awareness, and mindset with entrepreneurs and experts. Set your perceived ideas and biases aside and let's go on our journey for yourself, for your family, for the world.

Welcome to another episode of The Chris Project. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is Roy Cullen. Roy, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much, Christian, for having me. I look forward to the conversation.

So I got a little pre-sneak here. Roy is Irish. I couldn't tell where his accent was, so I just asked. So now you know. But he is coming to us from Poland. So the world traveler, Roy, tell us who Roy Cullen is and what brought you here.

Brought me here to Poland or brought me where I am today?

Wherever.

Wherever. I'm from Cork in Ireland, and I studied construction economics, worked for mechanical contractor, two companies for about 13 years. Met a Polish girl, kind of saw property was okay, and moved out here and done a lot of developments, built 30 apartments, was building houses and things like that. Got completely wiped out when the crash happened. I was doing okay. I had about 14 people working for me. But I started funding the other projects thinking things would get right. They didn't. And through that saw loads of corruption and everything. Because I was the president of the company, I was personally liable. Fast forward, got through all that, went to an event and the event was What's Your Quest? And it was kind of my mission then was to kind of expose fraud and corruption. And I kind of got into the podcasting journey. I have 6 podcasts. I'm a podcast coach. I do virtual assistance. I've got a va.world company. And also Brain Gym. So, kind of watching people go to the gym for their fitness, but they don't work on the brain and the mental side of things. So, that's another thing I've got a partner from Holland with that one.

Beautiful. So, what crash were you referring to? Was that the 2008?

Yeah, but it took later. I think it was around '11, '12 by the time it hit me. Okay.

Yeah. And you were doing your business in Poland at the time?

Yeah. And I had a few properties in Ireland and basically I was after making a million. I had a lot of assets and basically was personally liable for $5 million. About dollars, euros, it was in Polish lattes, it was a lot. And through that then saw so much corruption with bailiffs, with courts, with banks, the whole lot.

So you mentioned an event. Tell us about that event again.

It was Mindvalley, it was called A-Fest, and it was basically, "What's your quest?" And it was in Cancún in Mexico, met a lot of great people there. It was kind of, "What's my mission in life?" That was my kind of, that's what I kind of felt like, 'cause sometimes we're chugging through life. So, the previous me was kind of building all these assets, building a project. I already had plans for the next project, the next project, everything was never expected to happen happened. But at the same time, kind of grateful even though not at the time I would've thought it because now I live in the present and I'm totally present with everything I do.

As opposed to then you were in the future?

I think planning the future and just not enjoying life as such, whereas now I'm extremely mindful because when I went through all of this, meditation helped me and I kind of done a guided meditation and one of them was— because 'Cause so many people go through turmoil internationally and not just in business as well. And it was kind of, what are you grateful for? 'Cause we're always looking at the lack, we're always thinking of what I don't have. So what I kind of started concentrating on is what I'm grateful for, what I've got. Oh, I've got my child giving me a hug, I've got food on the table, a roof over my head. And the other one was the act of forgiveness because that's the one that eats up a lot of people. And I mean, because there was so many people had attacked me and I had experienced so much stuff, it was a hard one. And I started saying, I need to forgive these people. And some was easy, but there was others that were very hard. And what I did is I brought them back to the child. I said, we've unconditional love for a child. How did that person become the— how they did? It was either a parent that was abusive alcoholic, drugs, or the parents were working so hard they took their eye off the ball, child started hanging around with the wrong people. And by doing that, I was able to forgive everybody. But what it did is it freed it from me, because when you have pain and you're hating on someone, it's your thinking of it. They're not thinking of you. So by doing that, you actually release everything, and then you start enjoying your life.

I am, uh, releasing The next episode of this podcast is with Catherine Giovanni, and she is a forgiveness coach. And I was re-listening to it this morning after I got the edits back, and she said, you know, to her, forgiveness is, I want you out of my head. That's the definition. Like, I don't want to be thinking about you anymore. I don't want to be spending any energy disliking you. And I, I'd never really thought of it that way, but, you know, I, I, I, I had a similar view as you, which is when you hate someone, you're giving them the control. It only affects you. It doesn't affect them. But hearing that idea that, you know, I just, I don't want you in my head anymore. I'm like, yeah, that's the— yes, not going to occupy real estate anymore. Was there— was now— were this, this, uh, woman, uh, was she with you during this time of collapse? Okay, this is before her. Okay. How did you process that initially? Like, I'm thinking of the financial pickles I've gotten myself in. It was a very dark space, like, because I, I, I, at the time, well, I still am, I was married and it was something I was ashamed of, fearful of sharing with anybody else. So, I couldn't talk to my wife, couldn't talk to anybody, I felt at the time. So, how did you deal with that?

So, I was married to another Polish girl at that stage. I had a new baby and the child was maybe 1, And even before that, as I was going through it, I was— I would definitely was depressed from it. It was kind of like shock. I've never done anything bad. Why, why is all this happening? And understanding that there was fraud at a bigger level happening, whereas they were throwing— if you had a pulse, you were getting a mortgage. And then they went to even if you had 50% of the money, you couldn't get a mortgage, you know, they just turned off the tap. So like, you know, we had a lot of kind of pre-sales and we get caught cases which stopped that. And then the market dropped and nobody could get money. They were all just bailing. They were like, yeah, everything was grinding and the banks said, no, we're not giving you the money. So me then was like kind of beating myself up going, why did this happen? And sometimes it was hard to get out of bed, you know, and it was like just kind of not seeing light at the end of the tunnel. And then it was like just talking to one of the investors that I had, like one project that was actually okay, and he was just saying like, money solves every problem. Not to be concentrating on the lack of it, but to be looking, okay, what can I be doing to start bringing in the money? And that helped a bit as well, but as well as fighting the different battles.

Yeah, I was just having this conversation with one of my employees and she was negotiating with a vendor and she just felt like she was at loggerheads and she said, I feel like he's desperate. And I'm like, yeah, so why are you feeling that way? If he's desperate, like, why are you upset about this? And she started to give me an answer, and I said, no, I said, you're desperate. You're both desperate, and you're in a mindset of scarcity because you don't know what the alternative is. You're desperate to close this deal with this guy, and he's desperate to close the deal because he needs the money. So you're both coming from this space of, well, like, this is my only option, right? And so it gets, it gets real hard to see that it's not the only option. There, there are other options. So shift it to an abundance mindset. If this doesn't work, that's fine. What's next? Have you ever experienced a transition like that where you realize that you were in a scarcity mindset and then have to shift out of it?

No, absolutely. It was like, because the more you think you're going to lose it, then you're losing it, or you think something's going to happen, you know, like a check come in and then something's going to happen to make this go out, and straight away it goes up. You're like, see, I told myself, and then you start telling yourself a story based on that.

And it's, yeah. Yes. So how did, okay, this Quest event. Quest, to me, I have visions of knights. On Grand Journeys, which I think is a great word. How did you find it?

It was a meditation that I came across by Vishen Lakhiani of Mindvalley. And so, I started just kind of following him and then the event. So, I was after doing okay then with a few projects, so that's why I was able to move on to that.

So what insight at that event led you to realize that your new purpose of rooting out fraud and corruption?

I know I had conversations with people because it was never that I was embarrassed to say these things. I mean, I've had over 100 court cases, so I'd say as it was, I remember having a conversation one evening with one guy who used to train Navy SEALs. It was him and another girl.. And when I told him all the stuff that I went through, he started crying and he said he's never witnessed anything like that. It was like so much because I had so many different things that I'd witnessed. So that was one of the things because sometimes you think you're like a failure because of what's happened. And when different people are kind of telling you that, wow, you're strong for standing up for this. And, you know, even like I screamed at a judge because just different things that I've witnessed, I could see corruption and I kind of— it was like standing in my own feet. I was like, I'm not going to tolerate this anymore. Where people think they can control me. I was born free, so why do they think they can just pull me left, right, and center? And kind of scare tactics into, oh, we'll publish— like saying, we'll publish you in the newspaper unless you sort this out. Like, you're broke and then they're threatening to put you in the newspaper. I mean, no wonder so many people unfortunately throwing the towel because of this disgusting tactics that they do. And it was just kind of listening to different speakers and everything, it was— I don't know, it was kind of empowering and just meeting like-minded people, really good people. That it inspired me. And it was like, what's my mission? And I was just kind of asking myself, what, what, what am I here for? What, you know, am I doing good? And I think as soon as you have a mission that's bigger than yourself, life becomes a lot nicer and you have more to live for than just chugging through the day.

And to be clear, when you were building a bunch of buildings, you didn't have that larger thing?

No, it was like I always had respect for people, whether you were a cleaner or you were a multi-millionaire. I treated people the exact same. But I think being kind of, I suppose, looking in and just being totally present, because what I've noticed now is like if I go outside and I'm— and say when the weather gets better, just reading a book, I'm watching, I'm looking at, you know, like The bee landing on the flower, bending and just looking at the ants eating something. I'm just taking a walk and just totally present with everything. I don't believe I was like that before.

Yeah, I don't think a lot of us. I struggle with being present because of, frankly, all of the distractions on that computer in my pocket that you can always be looking at emails or you can always be looking at your bank account or reading news. It's hard to be present. And I, I had a pastor say this a couple of weeks ago, and, and I— he didn't cite a source, but I believe it to be true. He said human beings are more alone now than in any point in history. And I don't know if that is true, but it certainly felt true. And it's kind of a scary time, honestly, to live in, where, you know, you, you just got people that are going through the motions.

And the problem is so many people think they have so many friends because they're on social media, but they don't have human connection. And that is, that's so dangerous.

Yes. I mean, I love virtual things. We're virtual. We're not in a studio. You know, there's a lot of things you can do that you couldn't do without technology, but there is nothing that replaces your physical presence and your mental presence in a situation. I was just having lunch with a woman that— she has a company that essentially builds communities around business. But just the idea that you're going to invest your time to go, even if it's across town or across the country, whatever, your intent is entirely different than if you just hop on a screen and you can check emails while you're having the conversation, right?

And I, I think— I mean Even this, this is very good to be able to see someone and talk. And like, I have a lot of friends that I'd be talking on the phone and everything, but most people, they won't even pick up the phone. They're just writing.

Oh no, yeah, yes.

They don't like even say with WhatsApp or Messenger, I leave voice message because I prefer when somebody does that because one is time-consuming and I'm just like, I'm constantly trying to, you know, use my time as best as possible. But most people, that's it. It's like the Snapchat with the picture or they're just doing the thing. They're not talking.

So I'm curious. I am trained as an accountant and part of what we get trained in is fraud, usually detecting it. Forensic accounting is not my specialty, but it is an interesting subject to me. And I went to an event with the former CFO of Enron. And he was telling his story. And I'm telling you, I can't remember the guy's name off the top of my head, but it was the most fascinating thing to hear his story because he was convicted for fraud.

Right.

And he was the only one that didn't take a plea deal. He actually went to trial, lost trial, got sentenced to federal penitentiary, and he relayed his story that he was Jewish. He was in a penitentiary in Louisiana. And he was the only Jewish prisoner there. But they brought in a rabbi once a month to counsel him, spiritual counseling. And through this conversation with the rabbi, he came to understand that what he did was wrong. And the story was there, you know, that I don't want to go down a rabbit hole, but the Talmud is basically a book of legal opinions of rabbis over the years that they've compiled. So like, you know, 'How do you interpret this law? How do you apply this law?' Very dull reading. Sorry. In any case, there was only one case in all of the Talmud where all of the rabbis agreed. And it was a question of— I don't remember however many commands there are in the Old Testament, you know, 600-some. If I obeyed all of these commandments, but I did not obey the last one, which is be holy as, as God is holy, would I fulfill the law? And all of the rabbis said no. And what he realized about his own actions was that he'd followed all of the law. I mean, he'd— he told me, you know, he would go to internal counsel and get their blessing. He'd go to the board and get their blessing. They'd go run it by external lawyers and external auditors, and everybody would sign off on his plan. Right. And so he checked all the boxes. But at the end of the day, he didn't have the right intent.

His—

his intent was to deceive. And that was his revelation in prison. He was in prison, convicted, and still didn't think he'd done anything wrong. Like, you know, he he had been on the COVID of CFO Magazine the month before he was indicted as CFO of the Year. And he's like, I don't understand how what I do could be praised on one hand by people as brilliant, and then on the other hand, it's illegal. You need to go to jail. So with that, how do you see fraud? What, what is a good definition to you?

I think knowing something is wrong and still doing it. So very similar to what you've said, but yeah.

And so it's the intent behind it, like, not necessarily the action. The action could be agnostic, it could be interpreted either way, but like what you meant to do with it. Yeah. So So what kind of fraud, corruption? Give us an extreme example. What did you see?

I saw bailiffs working with a valuer. So with a commercial property we had, and it was worth about $1.25 million, and the valuation basically was destroying the property, saying how bad it was. I mean, you never hear a valuation doing that. That's not what a valuation is for. So straight away they were— and the way that the auctions work, it's 75% for the first auction and 50% for the second auction. And what they do is they do a screenshot. So they put it up, they have proof that they have advertised it, and they take it down. So they put— they can actually put it up for a second, have a screenshot of it, go, oh, nobody turned up. And then they get their own cronies to come along and buy it. So they would have been buying a property.

At distressed value.

Yeah. Because they valued it at half a million, so they would've been buying it at a million. And what happened is a guy who was looking at another property of the housing one came in and asked me for documentation. And usually most people would say, "Go away from me. I don't want to do nothing." But that's not my style. I just said, "Yeah, come." Came over to me, took out the drawings, told him everything. And he had went through a similar thing with a business he had, and he told me exactly what to do. And he was 10 times better than any accountant, any solicitors. So he ended up buying it. So I got nothing back, but it took a debt off me. It took a big debt off me. Another project with the housing, he went there with a friend. He told me not to go because if I go there, they'll be asking, is there somebody from the company here? And they bribed everybody in the room. They gave everybody close to $1,000 and they had their own cronies buy it.

And so this was supposedly a public auction where there wasn't any tilting of the scales.

Yeah. So basically the way that it would work is you have an auction, you have to put in 5% to be at the auction and whoever bids the highest for each house that they were bidding the houses. So that was a corruption in Ireland. I went to the High Court, so they took my 3 properties, including my personal belongings and everything in Ireland. And they sold one of the properties I had. It was worth €400,000, and then it dropped to €125,000. That's the way the market went, which should be impossible, but that's the way it is. So I had a mortgage of €220,000, and I kind of was able to keep it going for a while. And I gave him an offer of €200,000. I said, full and final settlement. And they wouldn't accept it, and they sold it for less and came after me for the excess. Yeah. And when I was in the, like, the High Court, like, you're fighting a barrister, which is high level, very expensive. And it's not like, you know, plaintiff, defendant, and you have a representative in either side. This is a room with one judge and you've got 100, 150 people in there. Usually just barristers there. Most people don't even turn up. And I was in there just listening to this, and like one person said, um, KPMG checked my accounts and we were overcharged €15,000. And the judge said, when was that? Uh, 2 or 3 years ago. Ah, you should have took it up with them then. Bang, rule in favor of the bank, plus interest, plus penalty. Everybody, not one was getting wins. So with my information, they gave an affidavit, and all lawyers, this stuff Honestly, I didn't even know what an affidavit was. I had to find out what it was. Then I responded. And there was a billionaire in Ireland, a really fraudulent guy who's involved with a lot of different things. He got a €300 million write-off. So one of my points was like, how come you can give a billionaire a write-off and you can't give me €20,000? There was a program on about the bank doing fraud and insurance fraud. So I said, this bank is doing fraud. I had signatures. They had 20 signatures. Of— they had 2 banks because they had bought up one at one stage. And they had 20 different names with the exact same signature. I had proof of all that. I brought that. So they could never respond to my affidavit because they were fraudulent. I had 46 points. So they kept getting me back, getting me back. And it was costing me a lot. I mean, each time I was coming from Poland and then I'm living in Cork. So then I'd have to get the train up and have the case. And to be honest, I was so nervous because, you know, when you're going through this, especially at the High Court, around the 7th time there was a judge and he said, why have you not responded to his affidavit? Offered €1,400 for my transport to me. I never got that. But, and he said, if you don't get it within 3 weeks, there'll be serious consequences. And I went away thinking, I'm going to win this. I was just, felt confident. And even another, at another point during the, the the case, the bailiff came up to me— or not the bailiff, the barrister— and he said, oh, it's not in this place at all, you have to go to another place. I just don't trust this guy. And I went up and I asked the kind of reception area or whatever, and he was lying. Because if I didn't turn up, I'd have lost. So when I went the next time, it started— I used to be there before 10, like 9 o'clock or something like that. And same thing, a room full of people, different judge. That's the He's just picking up a file. So how— like my life is on the books here and he just picks up a file. So he hasn't a clue really. And they start and then the barrister says, "Oh, I have another case I have to leave." "Grand, no problem for him. He can go away." So I have to wait around because I don't know when he's coming back. And he comes back, they call it, and I'm not there. So I have to stay the whole time, but I'm also learning, listening, and see what I can pick up, making notes. After dinner, he starts doing it. 15 minutes, he was letting the barrister read away. And he goes, "Nah, this is going to take too long. We do it later." It was nearly 6 o'clock when he started doing it. So barrister stands up, says everything, and he's kind of saying my points as well. And then I go to say my points, and the judge kept stopping me. He didn't allow me to speak. And a guy, some guy just stood up and he said, "Why are you doing that?" He said, "Are you related to him?" He said, "No." He said, "If you don't shut up, you're going out." And so I knew straight away, this is complete fraud. And in the end, he says, "No, ruling in favor of the bank." So then he tried to apply interest and costs. I'm fighting this for over 2 years. I said, they've never responded to my affidavit. He goes, fair enough. So I won on the cost, which would have been massive for the thing, and interest. So €65,000 was the difference for what they came after. And I said, all right, I want to go to the EU about this because I had so much information. I logged everything. And I was told that I had to appeal. And the problem is, in Ireland, if you appeal, you're opening it up again. Some countries, it's only just the 65,000 and that would be it. But you would open up that plus the additional cost. So you're talking 65 versus maybe half a million. And I was like, mm-mm, I'm not doing that. So I just kind of— but they never got it off me. But there was one guy, I've had him on my show twice. They'd done thousands of checks on the people, the interest. They were all overcharged interest. So with mine, that was kind of behind. I was potentially after being way ahead with the 3 mortgages and the other 2, they took them off me. I never got information of when they were sold, how much they were sold for, when they went to auction. The whole lot was just pure fraud.

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How do you fight fraud now?

I started learning sovereignty, UCC, common law, and kind of realizing I'm giving them, like, thinking that they've got power over me. And I realized the power of the signature. So even if you're stopped, like in America and in Poland, is like jaywalking. I get it if you're going to run across the street and you cause an accident or you get somebody to jam on the brakes. But when there's no car coming, why do you have to wait 5 minutes to cross the road? And you just say, who's the injured party? Because for a crime to be committed, there must be an injured party. And then it's like, say, even speeding or whatever. There's kind of hairy way to this because I like to have safe driving because you can't have it that people just do what they want because you get a guy doing 100 in a 50 zone, which isn't good for anybody. Sometimes doing 5 or 10 above and they're coming to you and it's the same thing. They always give you the piece of paper to sign and that piece of paper is basically saying you're just agreeing to what they've just said and you have to pay it in. So when you don't sign anything— so even with commercial property, or it was, um, tenement buildings we had, we, we ended up selling that and this, the city came after me for rubbish and we never used them.. But they claimed that it was 28,000 zlotys, so that's about, say, $7,000. I was like, I never used it. And then they called me in and they usually have the nice cop, good cop, bad cop, same in the— and one was like a Rottweiler and it was always about hairs. And I was like, I'm not signing that. And they're looking at me stupid. And I just got up and walked out. And they kept coming after me with letters and I'd respond telling them You're writing to the corporate entity with all capital letters. And I just kept going back. And each time I'd go for the individual, and then they'd change a different person, a different part. In the end, they settled for 4,000, which I never agreed to. So I went from 28 down to 4. So I realized the power of that. I got called into court. They took a criminal case against me as well. And they were trying to give me 3 years in jail. I fought it, won thankfully. Then they appealed it, and I won again. But that was a scary time because it's like, You just don't know what's going to go on. And every single thing that happens, I kind of go, how did they do this to me? So the next time they're asking me to come into court for some, and I just throw it back, like, who's going to pay for the last time? Because I had to pay a solicitor and they give like a measly sum. I was like 8 times or more, I think in this one about 12 times, and I wouldn't go. And there were a detective looking for me. I had plenty of times detectives coming to come in for witness. And they're the same, they're horrible people. Like, for example, I had got divorced after going through all the things. I went in for one of the cases with a tenement building, and they called me in, and they were saying, "Oh, there's a claim against you." Went an hour and a half. Two days later, they went down to her parents' house and said they couldn't find me. So, like, they were thinking then that I'm a criminal and everything. So the next time I went in, I said it to the 'Why did you do that? I was here.' And he apologized. I said, 'You need to go down there and apologize to him.' He said, 'Okay, okay.' A year later, I call in again and he said, 'They're being horrible. They're just aggressive towards you like you're vermin. They just treat you like you're nothing.' And I said straight away, I was after finding out, I was after asking, 'He never apologized.' And I said it to him, he said, 'I never said that.' And my solicitor was next to me, he says, 'You did.' And I just abused him after that. I was just like, I'm not tolerating these people, and they get you to— what they usually do, and I advise other people, they'll get you to come in and they'll get you to write stuff and say things as if it's nothing, and they use every single thing that you say against you. So if you are not guilty of anything, just be very careful. And it's all about the signature, because when you sign something, it's like saying, I agree to just what you've just said, or whatever's written on this piece of paper.

Have you studied law formally?

A small bit. I done construction economics and management, so there was a bit of law on that. But it was like, look, I started reading tort books, Black Laws. There's a load of different ones, and there's all trickery with the words. And you're like, because there's people, there's decent people with their children being taken off, and you have to refer to them in the court as property because it's not your children. There's people helping people to get their children back, but everything is trickery with language. So all I'd say is, like, even sometimes with, with the legal system, unfortunately, most of them are looking at billable hours. They don't care about you, so you have to care. Every case, like, as I said, I've had over 100 cases. Even when I had legal representatives next to me Every time I won, it was always because I was paying attention and I'd write a piece of paper and I'd say, "No," and I'd catch them out. I'd catch them out for their lies that they were doing, and eventually that would be the case. There was one, they said a signature was done, and I said, "That's a scan. That's not an original." Nobody copped it, but then the judge was looking at me going, "Oh yeah." Another time, they forged my signature and they had a date, but I put a line through my zeros. And I said, that's not mine. And I was able to open up a few pages before. I said, that's mine. That's not mine. Just simple thing. Because most people, they just sit back and think your man is looking after you. And that's not the way it is. You have to watch your own back. And just, I do a load of interviews on this. And like say in the UK as well, GDPR, because your information, and I believe there's something similar in the US. It's like, you can't just pass on information, you know, after sending stuff to bailiffs and everything. You can get out of a load of stuff. And because they're nasty, they send the heavies in, the phone calls and even the credit card companies. People are unfortunately really depressed because these companies are— I don't know, is it as bad? No. But if I had recorded the conversations I had from either banks or credit card companies when I went through all of this, they should all be in jail because it was just so nasty, the conversations. And you're just trying to— get air because everything's just been whipped away from you. So somebody ringing you up, just screaming at you, trying to get money that you don't have, and that's what they're doing.

Yeah. There's a couple of different ways you can go at this. I'm not a populist in the sense that I don't think mob rule is wise, but I think about the, the tradition that was started in England with the Magna Carta. And, and of course, that was to protect the, the lords and the landholders. It wasn't to protect anybody else. But it, it started this idea that there are certain things that we in a, in a, in a free society should have as unalienable rights that are not up for discussion. However, the practical application of that is, one, people don't know their rights, right? Two, they don't know the system in which those rights are adjudicated. And, and three, which is probably the most important in what you're talking about, is that you have these people that have money and power that are going to use it for nefarious purposes and they don't care about what happens to you.

Yeah, it's like the main thing is that when you go, don't go into the court. There's a lot of people getting into trouble and they're going in saying, "What jurisdiction have you got on me?" or "I'm the living man in all this." And at the end of the day, you've got this guy, can be as corrupt as much and just laughs at them. And just, yeah, contempt the court or whatever. They just make their ruling. The trick is not to go in there. Look at how they're writing to you. Is it all capital letters? You know, like sometimes you think you have to go in. When you start looking at the wording, it's like a request to come in, and then you just deny the request. But one thing a lot of people do is they ignore a letter. When you get a letter, and sometimes it's like if it's sent twice, in Poland it's like if it's sent twice and I never got it, it means I got it. So you can't just ignore something. So make sure you respond. And even, I mean, there's so many different people giving different advice. I've read over 20 books on this and I'm kind of coming up with my own system than following somebody else because most people are trying to look for somebody that will do it for them and go, "Okay, tell me exactly what to do." And nobody wants to do that then because then they're liable if something goes wrong.

True. And you don't have to own own the result when you're relying on someone else. But what I think what you're saying is true is that you, you have to take responsibility for yourself whether you use professionals or not. It doesn't matter. You still have to take responsibility for yourself and the outcome that you want and participate in it. And, you know, as you're describing this, it makes me wonder why this type of system, this type of behavior is what drives people to be outlaws, which I make the distinction between an outlaw and a criminal. Like an outlaw is just like, you know, this system is fucked. I'm not dealing with it. Right. Versus, you know, a criminal is like someone that's got criminal intent. They're trying to do wrong. And that's not a world we want to live in where there's people that just say, you know what, these rules don't work. I'm just going to ignore them.

Absolutely. And I mean, I mean, we're looking even at the political system and you look at, say, Pelosi, you look at all of them and buying shares insider trading. And every single country's got something. You look at all of them, you look at UK, stammer, it's like nothing is just— just maybe two different leaders in the world that you think, yeah, they've got the people's. And I don't even vote. I believe that if I vote, you're an outlaw.

That's, that's what I'm saying, is you've decided this system's not working.

Yeah, because— and it's strange because like I just came to this conclusion myself. It wasn't anybody saying it, but once I started saying it, a lot of people said the same. It's like, if I vote for Party A or whatever, I'm giving him my right to represent me, whereas I don't. I don't give anybody the right to represent me. I'm representing myself. I know what's right and what's wrong.

Yes. And in the right system, that you as an individual should still be protected regardless of whether you're with Party A or Party B. And You know, I went down to Nicaragua recently, and it's the second communist country that I, I've visited, and I had not been paying attention to what had been going on in that country in the last few years with their civil war. But, uh, I was talking to some of the locals, and it got to the point where they were shooting up churches and imprisoning priests for rebellion activity. And, you know, people in America would say, well, that can't happen here. And I'm like, it's a very slippery slope, right? You know, if you don't— it's not like people wake up one day and there's a revolution and you have a communist government. You, you as a people allowed that to get to that point. And I'm not even talking political science of making some distinction between communism and fascism. I'm talking about you let the bad persist, it's eventually going to take over. I mean, that's just the way it works.

Like if you look at the UK, there's people that are coming in from different countries raping people and getting off on probation. And they're coming in arresting people because of a social media post. There's over 3,000. And they're getting years in prison. And you're like, but most people, they just turn their eyes and they go like, if you have a success, they're behind you, but they're not going to pop their head up because they're afraid. Like, the amount of people that come to me, have said, my Awakening podcast, because I'm loads of people, when I meet them, they thank me for what I'm doing, but they're afraid to give a thumbs up or a comment or share because they think they're, they're going to be in trouble for doing that. And I think That's the reason it's happening. Because every time I see something wrong, I don't care if I'm the only one. I've plenty of times I've done that. I stand and I know what's right and I know what's wrong. And I could have 20 people against me and I'll still— like, even with the mask, I knew that was a fraud straight away because I saw that the PCR tests were being sold in 2017 and '18 by millions around. So I knew straight away that that was organized. I was in the supermarket with my son. We were the only people not wearing a mask. And we went into another one and we were walking up with the trolley and I saw the police coming towards me and they just shouted at me and I just turned and they spoke in English. They shouted in Polish. I just said, are you talking to me? And their face is going to drop. And they said, a mask. And I went, oh yeah, turned around and walked. And it was such a good feeling for my son to see that. And then later realizing with all the stuff coming out that they've proven, like, all the lies. I mean, I knew it, and I knew there's so— but there's so many things like that. And it's like, because the masses say it, don't believe it. And even if I even tell people, no matter what I say, don't believe what I say, go away and do your own research. And, you know, like, for me, I, I ended up learning a lot more because of what happened, because I started getting guests on, and I was like, I didn't realize that. Then I go and get books, get more books. And I think my health is 10 times better because of the information that I've learned, not understanding how many things are out there to actually make us unhealthy.

100%. And most of it by design. And I think back during the pandemic, I was the only one in my family that didn't get a vaccination. And my family peer pressured me and I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm not going to do it. And now I'm vindicated in that I was right in my choice. For me, I'm like, you know, it's my choice. Like, I'm not at risk. The lethal—

lethal— lethal—

lethality. I don't get the word. The lethalness of the virus. I'm like, I'm not putting something that's untested in my body. That's my choice. But the pandemic revealed to me— it scared me, honestly, because it showed me how quickly people react out of fear and how they start moving in a herd. It was like a stampede, like you're going to get crushed if you don't get out of the way because that cattle is coming at you.

The thing is, and it's later you realize this, or if you're watching, they started having series on Netflix and putting out films 10 years before that talking about viruses. They're conditioning the people into fear. So without them even realizing it, once they do this, they just jump into— and then you had all these, you know, corrupt media channels coming out saying all the lies, regurgitating delays. It's, uh, you know, it's like they even have them all saying the exact same thing. But yet people— and the worst thing is, like you say, I mean, I've seen so many families fall out because one believed this and another believed that. And even worse cases where they'd go away and get the child to get against, say, the father's wishes, and they just do it. And like, I mean, I've seen doctors— one, one said she got— she gave 6,000, um, jabs and she got 1.5 million in the States. And you're like— and I know that the doctors in Ireland, they kept bringing my mom, and I mean and she listens to my show and I talk to her every day. I'm a mommy's boy, I love my mommy. And my dad was alive at the time. And thankfully they listened to me and didn't get it. But even everybody around on the street, most people were getting it. And even cousins, they're just attacking them kind of as if they were stupid because they didn't get it. They're coming to her house, having a cup of tea, having a dinner, and basically insulting them, kind of going, what are you doing? And not one of them has put up their hand and said, I was wrong. And I guarantee you, the people that— how many people have actually said anything to you saying, you know what, you're right?

My wife did. My wife has said, my kids did not yet. But, you know, that's, that's fine. But, you know, having that internal fortitude, which I think goes along with entrepreneurship, like, you know, you have to have that certain build to you that you will do what what is right or what you believe to be right and work from those core principles even when everybody else is saying no. And that's a tough spot to be in, but we need people to be there more often.

And what you can do as well, I mean, if we're talking just kind of business, business as opposed to kind of these things, like I'd always have kind of like a sounding board that wouldn't even know. And I just kind of say, look, This is what I'm doing, I'm thinking this, in case I'm wrong. And always, because if you're asking family members or whatever, it's biased and it's not the same thing. But if you've got a circle of business people that don't even know who you're working with, just say you're the business partner and something's going wrong, you can throw it out there and say, look, this is the situation, this is what I think. And by doing that, if you are wrong, at least you can put up your hand and go, okay, I— and they might give you a different perspective.. But to be open to that. But most people, unfortunately, it's my way or the highway. They have their belief system and they're never open to change. And it's like just with the jab and all that, I think it's the ego gets in the way. Because if I'm wrong, I mean, there's plenty of times that I had a different belief system. I mean, there was one time I actually thought we could trust the government. I thought they had our best interest at heart because we were living in the Celtic Tiger and I thought, oh, this is great, making loads of money, everything's good. And then seeing how they're actually working, 'Even with the jab, I got plenty, you know, traveling and everything.' You just believe them. 'I will never get anything again. I will never give my child anything.' It's like, no way.

Because— Well, and yeah, and that's what's terrifying. That's what leads to that outlaw behavior. Like what I said during the pandemic was, God forbid we have an actual lethal pandemic because no one's going to listen because You guys screwed the pooch and lied to us. And, you know, there's, there's some people that will still believe them, but there's a lot more now that are like, I don't trust what you say. And that's kind of going back to the whole thing. Like, if you don't do the right thing, if you don't have the intent of being truthful, then, you know, you end up with that outlaw situation where people are just going to do whatever, however they can to get what they, they want.

I have one guy, he's been on my show about 6 times, um, Scott Shara, and his daughter had Down syndrome and they basically Rendeciver is one of the drugs that kills them and it's Midazolam in the UK and they were getting that in by the millions as well. And he's taking a case and he's making headway and if that kind of gets a ruling it will make a massive difference because there's so many people— like, I didn't know anybody prior personally that was injured from the disease, but the amount of people I know that died or was injured a lot. And even like, again, like, I don't know, was the guy Jabba, a friend of mine, about a month ago? I, I just found out that he died, you know. So it's— and there's a few— Poland, I know somebody that, uh, her husband and she's convinced it was from the jab. Same in the UK and in the States. So loads of people have seen damage caused by that.

Well, and we don't have time to go into this, but I think that people forget that there is a segment of society, and it has been around a very long time, that think that people are the problem and like there should be fewer of them. And if you have Down syndrome or you have some other malady, you should be done away with as well. And people don't want to hear that. People don't want to believe that. But those people exist. And to me, it's interesting when people can tell you the truth and people don't believe them. You know, it's like they tell you, well, this is our intent, this is what we're going to do. And like, oh no, they can't really mean that. Like, no, they do mean that.

You know, that's the strange thing. They tell you everything they're going to do. Because they believe in karma and it's like, we've told you, so that's, that's on you.

Or they just think that we're stupid enough that we're not listening. I don't know. Roy, this has been a fascinating conversation. Did not go any way I intended it, but that's totally fine. Thank you very much for your time. How can people find you if they want to hear your podcast?

They'll find me and my 6 podcasts on roycollin.com.

And that's C-O-U-G-H-L-A-N. It'll be in the show notes. It is not C-O-L-L-I-N. But listeners, if you like what you heard, please share the podcast, rate the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Until then, remember, you are not alone.

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