Crafting Predictability in Creative Work | Gabe Marusca

Hey creative, are you ready to discuss profits? The money, the ways to make it happen? The Profitable Creative Podcast is for you, the creative, how you define it. Videographers, photographers, entrepreneurs, marketing agencies, you get it. CEO of Core Group and author Christian Brim interviews industry experts, creative entrepreneurs, and professionals alike who strive to be creative and make money at the same time. Sound like you? Tune in now. It's time for profit.

Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Springfield, Massachusetts. Only been to Boston. I don't think it's far, but I haven't been to Springfield. But thank you for listening. Joining me today is Gabe Maruschka. Of Authority in the Wild podcast. Gabe, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Christian, for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Absolutely. So I've been a guest on your show, but tell our listeners what Authority in the Wild is about.

Sure. So it's a podcast that started as a creative experiment, if you want. Driven by curiosity and so on of learning and trying new things. And it turned out to be a very profitable one, a profitable creative process that now acts as my main source of clients. And it's a podcast, interview-style podcast like this one, where I interview authority figures like you to gather insights for those watching and listening that can apply right away in their own business and life.

I love it. So it was a creative— what sparked the creative idea of doing a podcast?

So it's quite random. I was being part of a coaching, individual coaching program to be able to record on camera because I was quite shy and quite introverted, let's say. And I wasn't able to literally like sit in front of a camera and start recording. So I was going through this coaching program, and while doing so, I was still having these moments like turning on the camera and I'm like, what I'm doing here? And back then I was in Thailand. For those that listening, I'm also a digital nomad, and I was in Thailand just meeting a group of people to do a hike. And one of the individuals was young, guy from Czech Republic that was vlogging in the moment, very like— and he seemed also very creative, like the way he hold the camera, the way he speak, and so on. I was like, wow, he seems so young and he's so confident, and so on. And after talking to him, I realized that he was— his way of breaking this, if you want, social anxiety that he was going through. And was like challenging him to record every single day. And that was quite inspiring. And after that conversation with him, he invited me to host a live video session on Instagram. I was like, me live? Oh no, no way. And eventually I said yes because he was like, I don't have a lot of followers, no one will watch probably, and let's just do it.

Nobody's gonna see this.

Yeah, exactly. And it's funny that that live recording turned out to be so full of energy for myself. Like, I enjoyed so much that I told myself, I see myself doing this all the time. And yeah, like, long story short, after that, I was like, how can I put this into practice? And I'm like, maybe podcasting, video podcasting, and so on. And yeah, and I start learning everything I could because it was like middle of December and I wanted to start in the beginning of the year, next year, everything I could in 2 weeks about podcasting, invited some people and one of them is the one and only Chris Do. And when he said yes, without me actually having a strong online presence or a podcast launch already, I was like, if he, if Chris said yes, like, like everyone can see. Yes. Okay, pause.

I have been on a quest for the last 2 weeks to find a connection to Chris to get him on this show. So now I'm going to ask, can, can you make an introduction to, to Chris?

Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to. Of course, he has the last say for that, but he's a very down-to-earth individual and such a cool guy that when he say that—

Well, that's why I want him on the show because everything that I see that he puts out there really resonates with me and what I'm doing here at The Profitable Creative and what we're doing for creatives. I'm like, I've got to get him on the show, but he's got a lot of gatekeepers. So if you can put me in touch, that'd be awesome. Wow.

I'd love to.

The universe manifests things. So Um, why did you choose the name Authority in the Wild, like, what, and, and the topic? What, what, what went into that?

Actually, I didn't start it like that. Like, the original name of the show was The Nomad Solopreneur because, you know, I was both a solopreneur and nomad. And slowly, slowly, I was like, I don't see myself being a nomad for my entire life. And actually, now I'm in the process of settling down, and, um, I was like, maybe I should rebrand the podcast as well because I'm not truly a solopreneur anymore either because I have like a small team of contractors that I work with. My wife is part of the business, so I'm not truly a solopreneur anymore. And, um, I thought how I can find a name that's not just unique but to kind of tell what's there, right? Like, and since I already start interviewing not just nomads and solopreneurs like I was doing at the beginning, with some exception like special guests like Chris was, I was like, All right, so right now I'm currently interviewing a lot of authority figures, experts in their fields and so on, and I host raw conversation, unscripted and so on. So I was like, hmm, I love as well nature, and how can I mix all these things together? And that's how I led to this name of Authority in the Wild, basically capturing the wisdom and insights of these authority figures as raw as possible in their own habitat, if you want.

Yeah, yeah. It reminds me, I don't remember, you may not be old enough. There was a, a, uh, show when I was a kid and, uh, Sunday nights there was, uh, uh, the, the World of Walt Disney. There was a hour-long show and then there was, it was Mutual of Omaha sponsored it and it was a wildlife show. And, uh, that, that is what just came to my mind because it's, it's the, uh, you know, in the natural habitat. I love that. I love that. Um, okay. But this, the, the podcast you said was, was accidentally, uh, profitable. So that, that's not what your main gig is, correct?

Correct. I run consulting business and the podcast, it's kind of the main source of leads currently. And it, as you mentioned, like, and as I mentioned, like, it was kind of accidental because some of the guests like sharing what they do, they got interested and we chat and then they become the clients or listeners that just connected with me. They turn out clients at some point in the process. And Yeah, the main thing that I do, it's a consulting business where I enter as a, if you want, fractional executive in businesses and I help them implement 3 systems, the acquisition system, client acquisition system, client retention, and operation side of things. So I plug into their own business and either bring my own team of contractors or working with their team in order to Basically implement the 3 main pillars of a business to be profitable.

And what types of businesses do you work best with?

Mostly individuals that's founder-based businesses that are willing to be authorities in their space, meaning that they are willing to build personal brands and so on. And most of them are experts that spend a lot of time in the corporate world and they want to escape that to build their own thing. And they start the process, they start applying what they learn and so on. But because they can see only from the lens of the corporate person, they don't have the skills or sometimes the resources to build those 3 pillars that I mentioned. So, and they are part of many industries, like I work from yoga coaches, for example, to creative professionals that do service-based businesses, to as well even product-based small businesses.

And so you're, you're working with them when they're just starting out or fairly new.

Was that? It's a mix. So most of them are, they have few years in the industry. Like they left corporate 4 or 5 years ago. They already have some results with their clients, but they are mostly trapped into the feast and famine cycle. They are chasing clients, implementing, chasing clients, implementing for their clients rather than building systems and so on. And I have a favorite quote from James Clear, which is goals are good, you know, for setting direction. But systems are best for making progress and they don't have those systems. So that's when I come in and some of them are just new from the corporate world. They, they put some money on the side. They are ready to build the business the right way from the start. And but that those are kind of minority from those that I work with. Most of them, they have already a small track record with, with clients outside corporate.

Yeah, my experience with creative entrepreneurs is they resist processes because I think they find them restrictive, maybe. But, you know, I've had several guests on here that have essentially said the same thing, which is if you don't have processes, you actually are less creative. Like the processes give you the space and the predictability to be creative. What would you say to that?

I just can't say I love it because indeed that's the thing, right? Because if you are trapped in quote-unquote creativity mode in which you just build for your clients and you have these creative processes in which you just sit and brainstorm and so on, can feel intuitively good, but then you end up in the position in which you're like, oh my God, where my next client is coming from? And then you start doing that thing that you don't truly enjoy, which is like knocking on doors, phone calling, cold emailing, whatever you're doing for lead generation. And you don't have any sort of control or predictability. And I was in that situation, like, and I wanted control over my own time to have that space for creative thinking, to have that space and predictability that I know that if, I don't know, this project ends, I know that another one comes in because I have a waiting list. So that's kind of, uh, what I'll say to that is often we think like if we just are full mode into creative Even let's say you are a web designer or a videographer and you're there playing with your favorite tools and so on. But the day ends and you realize like, wait a second, I have done nothing today when it comes to lead generation, or I didn't document my processes in order to, my process in order to build actual standard operating procedure or something that I can fall back to when I do it my own, on my own, or when I need help because That's another struggle, as you know, like most people, most creative people face in which they don't have a clear process to execute things. They just act on that creativity juice that is not always flowing, you know, like, wait a second, what was this next step here in order to do that?

Yeah. And I don't think it's just creatives because I can think back at the beginning of my business now. Had purchased a franchise, so there were processes that were built in the franchise model, but not everything had a process. And I think, you know, even if it's just yourself and you don't have contractors, the process gives you the structure to get predictable results. And that's, I think, key if you're going to have a business. Otherwise, like you said, you end up reinventing the wheel multiple times, and it's like you don't have to do that. But if you're going to go beyond yourself and involve someone else, be it an employee or a contractor, you absolutely have to have processes or you can't hand it off. One of the things I see, and I'll get your opinion on this, I see a lot of creatives that are project work driven. And I think that's kind of, you know, the nature of the expectation of the customers, like their clients, that they want to hire them for a specific project. You mentioned websites. So like, you know, I have a website I want built, so I'm going to hire you to do it. I see a resistance to productizing their service. Like rather than be a custom scope of work for each project, finding a problem that you can solve that you can repeat and standardize, you know, 80% of it is the same and only 20% of it is custom. What's your experience with that?

It's funny that you ask that because not sure if you know, but I was a web designer and I had the same resistance. I was like, how can I, I will be able to serve clients best if I I don't know, function on a standard step-by-step process. But after years of like struggling with that, I realized, wait a second, but actually repeat kind of the same process in order to drive consistent results through their websites. And the thing is that creativity, it's still— and you can still build unique websites even if you productize. Because if you think about it, like, what are the steps, right? Like you learn about their business, you have an intake form probably in which you gather as much information as possible from them. And then you follow a certain process like your wireframing, your creating the first iteration and so on. Because people, when they think productization, they assume they're like, oh, wait a second, I'll get a templatized style website or I'll get something that is not uniquely mine and so on. But that doesn't have to be the case. You still have the freedom to create a unique website, even if it's based on a certain standard wireframe that you know that works best for a certain industry. For example, I have that type of service, like around 10% of my business, I still do websites and focusing on speakers and thought leaders. And it's kind of the standard in the industry. There is a certain section that every single landing page needs to have. Or certain pages and so on. So when people think about creative process, implying creative process in productization, I'll suggest to like leave creativity aside for a second. Think creativity about how to create those steps and where to insert flexibility because if it's a, let's say, You create websites and you want flexibility for both you and your clients. And you can have 3 pricing tiers. One, for example, a templatized style website, one for a custom-based website, and one for like, I don't know, you give them your entire time and so on, maybe like plug into their own business. But that's the higher tier one. And you can use price anchoring to sell the one that you actually want to sell, probably, which is the middle one. And yeah, it's in theory, it's simple. In practice, you need to do it like because it's one thing to say like, all right, I will just follow this process and I'll succeed. You need to try. You need to go and try with one client, improve at the next one, improve at the next one, improve on the next one. And you'll end up with a process that it's successful because it's tested with multiple clients. And then you can like confidently charge more and in the same time deliver fast and actually get predictable results for both you and your client.

Yeah. And even in your example of the website, the structure gives you the space for the creativity in the sense that like, if you know that and you Pick Speakers, that 80%, 90% of alt speaker websites have these components, right? If you process and standardize that and productize it to sell, that gives you, all right, now what do you want it to be different? How do you want it to be creatively unique? You don't have to worry about that other 80%, you can focus on the 20%. Whereas if you don't have the process and you don't have the productization, then you're reinventing the wheel every time.

Exactly. And imagine if you're a creative listening, right? Like, and you're building website, imagine that if you allocate a certain amount of hours on the things that you know exactly how much time it will take because you have those steps and you know that built, like getting information from clients, it's getting you this amount of time. Creating the wireframe based on the structure that you have is this, this, this. And you arrive at the space like allocating a flexible amount of hours for the creative process. But you know that you have a, like a ceiling if you want. You cannot go past that. And if you go past that, it's like a question mark for yourself, like should you be flexible in the future? Should you charge more? Because in theory it's taking longer than you predicted. And that's why I, if you rewind a bit back and you think about the thing that I said that you need to test this because at the beginning you won't be able to tell like the creative process is taking this amount, getting the wireframe done is this amount, implementing that into the system that you probably use and so on. So testing is, I think the best way to identify these times.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. So let me circle back then to the question. So how did you overcome the resistance of productization? What allowed you to move past that self-limiting belief?

My body, because it gave up. Like, I overworked myself. I wasn't able to serve all the leads that come in and I was bad at saying yes, sorry, saying no. And I was saying yes to everyone and end up burning out. And that time allowed me to rethink everything and to literally find ways to get out of that. And if you want, the quote unquote anointing that I knew the solution for a long time, but I was resistant to that. And when the life strike, I was like, okay, I need to do something because I cannot continue like this. I cannot like put my health in this situation. And, um, yeah, and that comes because if you are creative, you resonate probably the fact that that is one of the struggle. The other is like hiring help because you think you are the best at what you do. Surprise, surprise, you're not. No one is the best, right? And, uh, like all those things that I was struggling before burning out. After that, I was like, I need to actually leave my limiting beliefs and leave my ego aside and start asking for help, start implementing systems, start documenting better and apply that documentation to building processes. And one thing, as you know, leads to another. And that led as well into consulting because I was seeing that a lot of people struggle with this. Because it's not in our nature to, from the beginning, to start writing down every single step that you do.

No, no, no, it's not. There are shortcuts if we'll accept the help, right? Yeah. I bought a franchise. That was a shortcut. You know, I think I was talking, I was at my mastermind last week and one of my colleagues, has an AdWords agency, which is kind of surprising to me. I didn't know those still existed. And he's exceptionally good at his craft. And this year he hired 2 people and he had been about documenting the processes so that he could get these people engaged. But his problem, what he presented with was, I still feel like I'm, uh, that I'm still too involved, that I get, uh, I'm the bottleneck. Things keep coming through me and I can't turn these things over because I can't, um, explain thoroughly how I do things to someone else that they can do it like I do it. And, you know, my experience sharing advice to him was, well, it reminds me of a conversation I had with my daughter, who is a figurative oil painter. And when she first started out, she said she got exasperated with me when I was asking questions about how she's actually going to make money doing this. And she said, well, I don't know, Dad. I'm just, I just want to paint what I want to paint. And I'm like, well, okay, you may or may not make a living doing that, right? But after she'd been in business for a couple of years, I asked her the question, okay, how would you compare yourself to say Andy Warhol, who was a creative that was uber successful in business, who involved others in what you know, he had a production line of, and, and, you know, her response was that, that to her, that diminished the creativity of it. And, and I'm like, okay, because to me, that's, that's the distinction. You, you as a business owner have to decide, are you going to be the artist? Where only you can do it, or are you going to accept that there's an alternative where other people involved in the process and it's not just you and you're much more successful financially as a business? Like, because that, that's where this guy was. Because, because to your point, yeah, you, you may be great and you may have a great process, but it's not like no one else can do it. And if they get 80% of the way that, that you do and you have a standardized outcome, you have an expectation of quality, all of these things, is it okay if someone else does it differently than you, right? And that is a hurdle most entrepreneurs get stuck at. Like, they just get stuck there and they can't get over themselves. But, you know, to me, you just have to be real clear and understanding, like, It's you that's limiting it. It's 100% you. And if you want to be the artist, you can be the artist, but just understand that you're limiting yourself.

100%. And couldn't agree more. I smiled because I was like, that was me. Like, I was like, all right, so why this individual that I just hire and I build this process for is not doing everything the way I said.. But then if I like remove that lens and looking from the perspective of a person that it's third party, it's not me, it's not the contractor and so on, I realize like, oh, wait a second, this work is actually pretty good. And if I look again at it, wait a second, it's actually better than the way I was doing it based on my process. And to your point, like, because it was 80% done the way I prepared the process. But the other 20% was their, their own individual creative process or in the way of they think. And yeah, it, it shouldn't be perfect. That's another thing, like, especially as creatives, you always— we are driven by perfectionism, we are driven by the fact that we want to be like spotless, whatever we are creating, even a business, even a process, even something that doesn't necessarily involve the classic creativity of art or something else. And that's, that's not okay because we limiting ourselves, like you well said. And as entrepreneurs, as creatives, if you want to be profitable and if you don't want to end up in a position in which we don't have energy anymore to do anything else apart of work, that's not a nice place to be.

No, you said your body shut down.

Like, exactly.

That you don't want to get to that point.

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Um, you mentioned something earlier that piqued my interest, and I, I want to go down that rabbit hole. Uh, you use the term anchor pricing. Um, I, I love talking about pricing because, uh, that's kind of my hobby. Um, for the listeners, what, what does anchor pricing mean?

I'll try to use an analogy here. So it's coming from anchor, right? It's anchoring to something. So when someone sees, let's say, your pricing table, they— let's say they see the bigger price first, which is standing out, it's big and so on. Let's say it's $10K for the purpose of this example. And then you have a price that's around $7K or even better, like $6K, let's say. And you have another one that's $5,000. And if someone looks at those prices, they're like, oh, wait a second, that $10K seems so expensive. But the packages, when you look at them, like the between the $5,000 and the $6,000 are quite similar. And even the, the bigger one has just some extras on top of the $6,000 one. Which one will you choose? Probably the $6,000 one because it's almost similar to the other two. But it's way better deal than the 5 because it includes more things, but less ideal than the Stan one that it's way less appealing due to the fact that it's almost double but doesn't include double. So that's how you anchor the idea into someone's mind that, all right, this is expensive and this is less expensive but offers more. And at the same time, when it comes to pricing discussion, like For example, if you ask someone like about their budget or if you say yourself the fact that, all right, so for what you're looking to get, we normally charge, let's say, $20K. And they'll remember that $20K, that's the anchor. But afterwards you say like, we can do this and this from everything that you want. And you focus, of course, on the things that you want the most. But then you offer a way smaller price, they will see that as more affordable option because they have in mind the $20K. But for example, and here's the trap, like often I don't like to ask about the budget because if you ask about the budget and they say, let's say if you offer the service for $15K, you anchor it at $20K initially, but you ask first about the budget and they say like, oh, we have around $8,000 to invest in this. Now imagine how hard will be for you to almost double that. Right. Because it's—

because they're anchored. They're anchored at $8,000.

Exactly. And yeah, kind of that's the principle around it. You want yourself to be in control to anchor the price and in the same time to make sure that you deal with this conversation also ethically. Because, for example, let's say if someone from the get-go, they say their budget, you still help them if you want, but of course in your own rules and conditions. Because let's say if you're normally charging double than that, you won't offer all those services or outcomes that you normally do for the half of the price. And also, yeah, here we can, I love to discuss more about if you want, like as well about let's say, stage pricing or a way to still offer help, but maybe breaking the price in multiple installments rather than all price upfront and so on. And that's another way to anchor it because often you'll find this objection like, all right, but that's quite out of my budget. And you can use this approach in which you can split the pricing into multiple installments. And because you can anchor as well to the outcome they want. And in a way that's, all right, so you want this outcome over this amount of time. And if we split the price in 3 installments, we work 3 months together. And by the end of the first month, you already see the experience of working together. You will see some sort of results. And here you make sure that you have some tangible results that you can offer in that amount of time. Because that for them will make it a bit of a no-brainer to invest because it's just, let's say, a third from the total investment, but they also experience it. And the point is to reduce, reduce, um, free— not— it's a friction point, but to reduce the effort from them and as well the, the commitment if you want, because everyone is like, all right, but I'll get return of my investment because that basically the biggest question that most of us have.

Yeah, I, my best example of anchor pricing that I have is movie theater popcorn where you go in there, small, medium, large, and the— I don't know how much it costs currently, but let's say the small is $5 and then the medium is like $6 and then the largest $6.50, right? And so the anchor price of the $5 drives the value of the two above them. And it's like you don't ever intend to sell the small popcorn for $5. Like nobody buys that and that's okay. So you're actually intentionally putting pricing out there on a product that you have no intention of selling.

Right.

It may sell and that's fine if you do. But like logically, from the buyer's perspective, it doesn't make sense to pay $5 for a small when I can pay $6.50 and get a large. Right. And that Rory, are you familiar with Rory Sutherland?

It sounds familiar.

He is an author. He wrote Alchemy. He's a director at Ogilvy., there in the UK. And, uh, basically the whole book is, it's ostensibly around marketing, but how, uh, humans act completely irrationally. Like the, the idea that we're rational beings and make decisions rationally is, is a farce. Uh, and he, he goes through, you know, example after example of where an economist would say this should happen because this is rational behavior, but humans act entirely differently, right? And I find his work brilliant. But you mentioned the budget, and I thought immediately of a post that Chris Doe did recently where he said the client had come to him for a budget of $100,000, and they had quoted him like $115,000, $120,000. And the, the buyer, the client was pissed. We told you that our budget was only $100,000. And Chris's response was, I understand, but my experience tells me that there are going to be changes to the scope of work during this time. And every time you do that, we got to go back and revisit the scope and we got to, uh, negotiate pricing again. And it slows down the whole process. And so rather than do that, I put in a contingency. I know this is going to happen, and therefore this speeds up the process. You're going to get what you want, and there's not going to be any of this back and forth. And after a minute, the client said, you know, you're right, and paid the $120,000 or $115,000. I guess, I guess what I would take away from this, listeners, is that pricing is not rational. Uh, it's based upon human behavior, what they value. And to your point, and like people that come in with ultra low budgets, they may not understand the value of what you're doing, right? I mean, that, that they may not understand the value to their own business of what you're doing. And so they've anchored their own price at some absurdly low number. And so you may have to do some educating to help them understand what impact your solution is actually going to give them. But don't— my overarching advice is don't underprice yourself. 90% of entrepreneurs leave money on the table because they're afraid. And they won't price aggressively enough. Any final thoughts on pricing, Gabe?

Yes, show them. Like, I recently had a conversation on the podcast on Authority in the Wild with Anthony Pieri, and he shows in the consulting world, she's actually a consultant as well, and he shows the prices up front, above the fold. For those that don't know, it's the first thing that you see on the website. Which is kind of unheard. And the reason is like, he's not— that way he's not losing time with those that cannot afford. It's automatic positioning as a premium provider. And in the same time, it's easy for someone to make decision. The sales process is easier and so on. And to your point, education, you need to make the buyer understand already before they jump on a call with you what you're all about. Because trust now is built through this type of interactions like media content, podcast, YouTube, social media post, and so on. And through that content, you have the power to educate them what the process looks like, who exactly you're working with, how the outcomes looks like after working with you, and so on. And when you get that information for free on all these platforms, when they jump on a call with you, you don't have to convince anyone because they know who you are, what you're all about, what service you provide, what are the results and so on. Because if you're doing during the sales call, you do the hard work and that's usually like addressing objection and so on.

Yeah, Perry Marshall, author of 80/20 in Marketing and Sales, I've been involved with his cohort for quite some time. And one of his tools is, he's called it different things over the years, but its latest iteration is the Power Promise. And it follows a simple methodology. It's if, if, if, then, else, right? And if you qualify, Like, if this is your problem, so there's a distinction right there up front of like who you're serving. If this is your problem, and then the second if statement is what their skin in the game is. All right. So like, you're going to follow our process. You're going to do XYZ, whatever it is. Right. So there's two conditional statements. Then is the outcome that you deliver, right? And then the else is our skin in the game. And it's usually in terms of some type of guarantee or, you know, what we'll do if we don't achieve the outcome. And if you go to my website, I have, you know, ChristianBrim.com. I've got my consulting power promise right above the fold. And it's like this is This is who I'm looking for. This is what you— I need from you. And if you and I work together, this is exactly what you're going to receive, or else I'm going to, you know, give you your money back, right? And so having that clarity, uh, in your messaging and in your pricing and in all of these things is— is it— it smooths the sales process Um, for sure, but it also is your marketing because you're not going to attract someone that doesn't resonate with that. Like, well, that's not my problem, so I don't need Gabe or Christian Brim.

Yeah, exactly. And what's funny about clarity is that it comes from shipping, trying things, not just from thinking about it. Because often we sit in front of a blank paper, it's like, let's find our unique selling proposition, or let's together something that help us stand out. But if you don't have enough skin in the game to actually test things and ship, ship, ship to others, it's so hard to gain that clarity. At least that's what I found. What do you think about it?

Absolutely. I mean, the power promise is— so the USP, the unique selling proposition, that's the old way of thinking, and it's still valid. But the way Perry morphs it into a marketing tool that you actually put public-facing, because the USP is usually an internal thing that like, this is who, this is who, how we're going to craft our messaging. This is, you know, what drives it. But he just took it to its conclusion, which is, okay, this is what you're going to put out there.

So Yeah, exactly. And you, you need both. And it's so easy after— it's eventually like after you deliver things, after you test, you get those insights. You see patterns, you see what people react to. Because that's another thing, like you can actually test this messaging in your conversation with your prospects and to see in your emails, in your DMs, and so on, and see what actually drives interaction, how people behave. Because at the end of the day, you cannot predict until you test.

Nope. We're predictably unpredictable as humans. Exactly. Gabe, how do people find Authority in the Wild or you to work with you? How do we find those things?

So if you search for my name, I am everywhere, both my website, gabemaruszka.com, LinkedIn, I'm quite active. Feel free to connect, send a message. Tell me where you find me. And for those listening and watching until this point, I have a surprise as well for you. So I prepared a short gift that will be valid just for those that tune into this episode. So make sure to check the links down below.

Perfect. Listeners will have those listener links in the show notes. If I could speak. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a message and we'll replace Gabe. Until next time, ta-ta for now.