Empowering Small Businesses with Marketing Tools | Robert Downey

go spend money on Google Ads, go spend money on this, go— because it used to work. And I always phrase that marketing is almost like a really super good drug. You'll keep going and you'll keep buying it and looking for that very first high every single time if it's working for you. And you'll keep chasing it if it's not working. If you're not getting that satisfaction, you'll chase it. And Google Ads would be a good common denominator for that. Is they'll spend money on it and they keep spending money because it used to work and they're not willing to pivot.

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Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. A special shout out to our one listener in Lawton, Oklahoma. Unfortunately, I've been to Lawton many times. Uh, there's no reason to go to Comanche County unless you are in the, uh, Army., or hiding from someone. There is a reason why they put Geronimo at Fort Sill. No need to go to Lawton anyway. Joining me today, Robert Downey of SimplyBeFound.com. Robert, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Have you been to Lawton, Oklahoma?

No, but I know some people that served inside of there.

Yes, it is a fascinating place. The first time I was down there, I'm sitting in this office building and I just hear these I didn't know what the sound was, but the glass was rattling. And, and I'm like looking around and no one else is reacting. And I'm like, what is that? And they're, oh, they're, they're shooting artillery. And I'm like, okay, all right, so those are big bombs that are blowing up. All right, lots of people have been through Fort Sill, but I don't think people choose to stay.

I heard it's an interesting place, and I heard that it's a lot of fun if you're gonna— if you're going there to play.

I—

and if you're in the armed services and allowed to play with all the big stuff that's there.

So there's a funny story about that. When we were down there, we were talking to this retired Army sergeant and he said, "You know, I'd been deployed 2 times to Iraq and the only time I came under fire was in Lawton, Oklahoma." And I'm like, "How is that?" And he goes, "Well, I was at the bar at curfew at midnight throwing privates in the back of cabs and some guy—" rolled up and started shooting. And I'm like, yeah, okay. All right, Robert, tell us enough about Latin America. Tell us about Robert Downey and Simply Be Found.

Well, I've been in marketing since 1995. I grew up in the small business world, and I've had the opportunity to sell businesses over to venture capital. I've done a lot of different things in my personal career., but simply we found we did is we wanted to create a piece of software, a set of tools for business owners to use, uh, to be able to do their own marketing without having to hire big agencies. And we went out to solve that problem of the small business owner not having access to tools that were simple. And Dean Kaler, my other co-founder, him and I, he started off as a client of mine and we ended up creating this after off of a set of needs and assess it Necessity, I guess, would be the right word to put into there. But Simply Found all started because of that. I mean, I walked into his business, he was with my agency, and I said, "Hey, how are things going?" This would've been January of 2020. He goes, "Things are going great. I mean, things are absolutely awesome." And I said, "How's voice search working for you?" And he goes, "What the hell's voice search?" And he picked up his phone and we did the whole thing. He searched Siri for his business. Sitting in his office, he didn't even come up and he goes, "You're thinking about creating a set of tools or a platform for that, aren't you?" And I said, "I am, I'm thinking about doing that again." And everything else is kind of history. We created an entire platform originally that was very Google-based, ended up seeing changes in the market, ended up redesigning our whole entire tool and released it out as not a Google-first platform, but as an actual platform to go out to other networks besides just Google. And being able to explore all the different pieces to help businesses be found and to do it simply from one spot, one dashboard. We have social media tools, we have AI SEO Pixel to get into more complicated stuff, but our main bread and butter is gonna be probably that listings engine or the social media suite.

So you had a general agency before that?

So I've owned, I've started, I've been part of over 5 different marketing agencies. Okay. Some of those had some tools and platforms inside of them. My biggest agency, I had 30,000 clients inside of it.

Holy cow. Yeah. And that's one that you sold to VC?

Plus it had some different tools and stuff in it, but yes, we sold that off over to a venture capital group. And I worked for that venture capital group, and that's where we got to the 30,000 afterwards, but yeah.

I would have assumed when you said 30,000 and VC that there had to have been a technology piece involved. Yeah. Okay, so the agency before was just kind of a stopgap? I'm in between things, kind of exploring?

I, I've had my set of clients. I've taken them between different companies, um, and different ventures I've done that I've had for years. I mean, I've got a couple clients that go all the way back to 2008 for my agencies. We still do all their marketing, still have all of that. But really, I see a gap where people doing their own marketing are getting better results than coming to us and hiring us in this as an agency. That's why we got out of the agency piece. And plus, they can make it to profit a lot faster that way, right?

Yeah, I've discussed this on this show many, many times, that there's, there's a lot of ineffective marketing. And I don't mean to say that the marketers are trying to do a disservice, but I think it starts back with the disconnect between the marketers and the business owners and not really knowing what it is that the business owners need or what they do. Exactly. But then even if they do have that understanding, I see them still trying to make square pegs fit into round holes. Like, you know, this strategy and these tactics have, have worked in the past. So we're going to make you use them. I ran that into that with an agency recently. It was like, well, we've tried this before and it doesn't work for us. Oh, well, you just haven't done it right. And I'm like, I don't think so. If that's the hill you want to die on, go ahead and try it. And 60 days later, I'm like, I told you it wasn't going to work. And so there just seems to be this disconnect between marketers and business owners. What do you think that disconnect really is?

Not knowing, thinking everybody has the same exact playbook, and believing every single so-called expert on the internet of what the latest trends are, what should be happening. I, I'd say probably the biggest disconnect there is everybody wants to focus on Google, and Google's not the biggest dog on the on the planet anymore for search. There's so much more that's happening out there, but they're not willing to make that. A lot of agencies aren't willing to make those changes. They're not willing to— we've been doing this for years, you know, go spend money on Google Ads, go spend money on this, go— because it used to work. And I always phrase that marketing is almost like a really super good drug. You'll keep going and you'll keep buying it and looking for that very first high every single time if it's working for you. And you'll keep chasing it if it's not working. If you're not getting that satisfaction, you'll chase it. And Google Ads would be a good common denominator for that, is they'll spend money on it and they keep spending money 'cause it used to work and they're not willing to pivot. If you talk about some of the big agencies that are out there that aren't the one-man shops or one or two people inside of an agency, they are doing the same stuff or they're getting kickbacks from different companies. You can get a kickback from Google, you can get a kickback from Bing, for doing certain things. And that's where I was like, I don't agree with it. It's one major reason why we changed off of being Google first is I knew they were gonna change the rules of the, what's called an API, which is how you connected to say Google Business Profile. And it's because we weren't gonna follow their rules. We weren't gonna talk about stuff. I didn't wanna become a partner of Google for that reason because all they're gonna do is hold me to be them. And that's just not the way I operate. But when you look at it from a business owner aspect, they really don't understand it. It's been made to be super confusing. And it really isn't that confusing. You're gonna put your message out and that's it. And you know your message better than anybody else.

I was at a marketing conference a couple of years ago and it was right after ChatGPT had come out and there was a lot of discussion around LLMs. And this new technology. And one of the vendors there, or one of the participants there, was, was an old Google guy, had worked for Google. And I didn't know until then, until 2 years ago, about all of the churn that Google creates on ads. So like, essentially, when they took out where you could blacklist sites for your ads. They took that away from the average user, right, that was producing 30-40% erroneous traffic for these small business owners. Coca-Cola, you know, they still got the blacklist. It was fine for the big customers, but for the average Joe, I didn't know that my ads were getting served, you know, 1 in 3 times to some server farm in Manila. Like, I'm like, yep. Yeah, and it was at that point, I mean, I knew it intuitively that Google was not my friend. I didn't know specifically how until that moment 2 years ago. I'm like, this is some nasty shit. I mean, that's—

Oh, it's some major nasty shit. Yeah.

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What you said, Google's no longer the 800-pound gorilla. What's replacing it?

It's a combination of things, and some of it happens to be Google products. So I mean, there's, there's things that are tied in. So you have multiple different pieces when you look at the ecosystem of just local search or how any kind of search happens, everybody's pulling off of data points from each other. So if you look at a map, right, we have it on our website. If you look at the map of it, it's connected all over the place. But you have ChatGPT that now has its own search function that can live inside of Chrome, can live inside of Edge for a browser, so you can have it be your default search engine. It's pulling real-time data and analyzing it for you, and you can have a conversation with it. You have Gemini that's doing the same thing, which is a Google product. Then you have all everything else that's in there. You have people using DuckDuckGo, you have Yahoo, you have voice search where people are using their voice versus using, you know, typing it in the traditional way. You have a lot of different searches, so you have to make sure you're found absolutely everywhere because you don't know where that person's going to find you, right? Everything inside of marketing is about touch points. It's no different than going to the lake and casting that pole out there. You might pass that same fish 5 times with that lure, that bait, but just that one time is that time that they're gonna actually grab it and, you know, you're gonna catch that fish or hopefully catch that fish. But it's about those opportunities that are inside of there.

Yeah, and from what I've read and the other industry experts I've talked to, it's not that there's a foundational change in what works. I mean, like, if you've got a content, whether that's just your website, but if you've got content that has authority, that is usable by the user, that still is what drives things. Would you agree with that statement?

You have three pillars. You've got content, you have authority, and you have trust.

Okay. And, and so that has to change.

Combine and play with each other. That hasn't changed. Has not changed whatsoever. I don't think it could change.

I mean, like, if you're trying to get people served up the, the right information those things can't change. Correct. But then what's changing is who's making money off of it.

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Who's making money, how they're making money, and how it's connected. Mm-hmm. I mean, it used to be where you produced a lot of content, you got authority, and you were number one. Now with AI, that's not the case because it has to actually be something someone cares about, and that's the problem that has to be there. What I see most business owners fail at in their marketing strategy is that they don't tell the algorithms and tell the search engines by blogging, doing social media, this is what I do, right? And that's where an agency is going to majorly fail in a lot of cases because they have no idea what that person does. A good case in point in that is, um, guy in LA that does garage doors and security gates. I had no idea. We were doing full-time marketing for him. I had no idea his number one phone call that he received was because mice were eating cables inside of boxes. Mm. He does a video on that. We do a blog post, we start doing social media based on it. Guess what? Now we start to rank for a search term that someone's looking for of, hey, I've got mice in my box, what do I do? How do I fix it? It's an amazing concept. But as a marketing person, you would never— it's not going to be a thought that you have unless you've ever experienced it.

Right. And if you don't have that conversation with the business owner, and, and sometimes, sometimes, uh, you know, that guy sounds like he, he had some handle on things, but a lot of times I think business owners aren't real sure themselves. Like, you know, they, they don't know like who their ideal client is or what problem they actually solve. I'll take accountants and bag on them for a while. Because I can and I am one, and that's okay. Accountants are a fun breed. Yeah, well, actually, they party really hard. Strangely, they do. The problem with accountants is that there is virtually no distinction. And I'd put this on law firms and architects and engineers and every other profession out there. There's nothing different about them. That's not to say that there isn't, but they don't lead with it. They don't say anything about it, and maybe they don't even know it. Like, you know, who our best customers are, or who I want more customers like this. Like, you know, have they even gone through that thought process? But until you have that clarity, you can't properly market.

You can't. So inside of our dashboard, the very first thing you do for our listings engine is you're going to fill out your profile. And when you fill out your profile, there's 3 different descriptions. And in those 3 different descriptions, you have one that's 100— first description, your short, which is 100 characters. Then you have 1,000 characters, and you have 4,000 characters. It amazes me how many business owners can't talk about their business inside of those descriptions. 4,000 words is a lot of words. Well, 4,000 characters. Oh, okay. That's your max. So you can technically use your medium and copy this, just keep going, and you'd be fine, right? But they'll put in, I do garage doors, I do electrical services. I'm in— I have an account— since we're picking on accountants, I've got an accountant that I was just reviewing theirs, and they said, I'm a CPA. That's awesome. They did that for all 3 descriptions. Yeah. I had a guy who writes resumes and does all this content writing. He wrote, I'm a writer. Yeah.

You know, it's, it's interesting. I've been on this entrepreneur entrepreneurial journey for a while. And I can tell you that one of our biggest problems in getting that level of clarity was it was completely self-imposed. It wasn't that we couldn't figure it out. Right. It's that at the end of the day, we didn't want to figure it out. Because there was this perception that never really reached the level of conscious, uh, thought and speaking, was that by limiting our target and saying this is what we do, we're somehow going to miss out, that we're going to have to say that we're leaving all this other potential business on the table, right? But the reality is, is that you're never going to get to talk to anybody unless you have some type of specificity and clarity.

I call that the death of being everything to everybody. Yes. And you can't, you can't be everything to everybody. Now, with our descriptions, they can get in the chat, they can talk to a marketing coach, and we can go through and we can help them be able to work through, this is what you should be talking about. It's one of those things to where you have to be able to say, this is the problem I solve. And nobody wants to be— everybody wants to be sold, but nobody wants it to be spamish when it comes to anything inside of marketing. You have to be able to tell your story. And I'm a big believer that your customer is the hero and you're the one that's going to help them get to where they want to go in their journey. And if you don't tell them where that you can help them, you're going to be left behind. It's kind of like if you confuse, you lose.

Uh, 100%. And back to your— we'll go back and bag on agencies now. I think there was so much money to be made, you know, back from 2000 on, that it didn't really require them. I mean, they had to, they had to be good at the technical aspect of it, right? But what has happened is, is that the technical aspect is pretty much automated anymore. Like, you can't juice the engine anymore. You've— you're—

and so you're no different than anybody else. You are. You're a commodity. Yes, right, is what you turn into. I mean, we work with a lot of agencies that use our system to be able to go out But it's one of those things to where, I mean, I remember back in the day when I could charge $20K for a website, right? Because it wasn't hard to do. Now we could take the SEO pick, the AI SEO pixel that we developed, we could put it inside of that Wix or that GoDaddy site that they went through, they drag and dropped it and created on their own. It is nothing more than a business card with a lot of data points on it, right? You can take that data and you can turn it into advertising We can go through, we could tweak out that message and be able to make it to where it's going to rank higher by doing the SEO side. But really, it's turned into where it's automated more than it ever has been, which is why we can do it for the price we do it at, right?

Do you know Dennis Yu?

The name sounds familiar, but I'm not picturing it.

BlitzMetrics. He's the one that codified the dollar a day for social advertising.

I think I've seen some stuff, but I really don't— I mean, I don't know him personally.

No. Okay. Well, it's exactly that on, on the, on the social platform, where it's like you can guess what's going to work, uh, with the algorithm, but why, why bother? Just put it out there and let the algorithm tell you if it's working. You don't need to be smarter than the machine, just let the machine tell you.

Well, with our, with our social media suite, I mean, you pop it up, you can enter in, you can write your message in, you can say correct with AI, it'll go in, it'll look at it from that aspect, look at your profile, what's what hasn't. It'll make a recommendation of this is what you should say on this network. Then you can go to the next network to do the same thing and schedule them all out. Because I'm a big believer that the message you do inside of Facebook is different than the message you do on X or Twitter versus LinkedIn versus doing YouTube versus doing each of those networks. That person, even if it's the same person that's going to go to each of them, they're in a different mindset when they come to it. Gary Vee probably said that the best out of anybody. They're in a different mode when they go to Facebook than when they're on Twitter. It just is what it is. When they're on Twitter, they're looking for news, which is kind of a very interesting dynamic that has shifted over the last 3 or 4 years.

Yeah. And when they're on LinkedIn, they don't want to see cat videos. Um, you know, they're, they're in business mode, right?

And each of these platforms have kind of twisted and changed. If you go back and you look at the history of YouTube, do you know what YouTube started as?

I think I knew at one point, but I've forgotten.

It, uh, started as a dating app. Oh, okay. And then it started getting majorly used by escorts inside of Nevada, and one of them shared a cat video, and then YouTube turned into what YouTube is today.

There you go. Well, you know, it's kind of like Facebook's origin story was seeing which chicks were hotter. You just got to figure out how Simply Be Found connects people for sex, and then you'll, you'll, it'll, it'll just rock it.

I don't know how. We've been confused as a dating app before. I had someone on chat this weekend that wanted to find out how I can match them to the right person, use their data to be able to find their mate.

Robert, you may be missing out on something. I don't know.

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Let's go back to some of the previous, uh, businesses that you've owned. What are some of the toughest lessons you've learned, like the ones that cost you the most or hurt the most, or you had to keep repeating because you weren't getting the right message?

Trying to be perfect. I've done that on multiple businesses. I can even say I've done that inside of Simply Be Found, trying to be absolutely have a perfect piece of software or perfect solution, and also not just getting out there. Because whenever you create anything inside of the business world, it's about getting it out there as fast as you can and seeing if you have a market. If you don't have a market, you got to pivot and you got to be able to move on and be able to tweak what you're doing because it's not going to work.

So are you there yet with Simply Be Found?

Oh yeah, we're there. Prove Yeah, you proved it. Yeah, we've, we've proven it. Our dynamic of going from not just being Google only or Google first was probably one of the best things we've ever done.

So back to that perfection thing, how has that caused problems?

To where you don't— you've caught— it costs you money, especially when you're developing software. It costs you a lot of money to be able to develop and be able to put those systems. The problem is those systems change just as fast as you're developing. So if you don't have a most valuable product or MVP and you're out there, it's going to cost you a lot of money. And it's just, it's going to be a cycle that you can never get out of because you're fighting not just yourself. I mean, if we look at Simply Be Found, we work with over 800 different networks on our listings engine. Those networks have issues, those networks have changes on a daily basis, if not an hourly basis. We have a new update that comes through, so you have to be able to stay on top of each of those updates. And how things are being used and being done. You would— if you want it to be perfect, it's never going to be perfect. Yeah, um, it's kind of like you'll get that one person that's one-off, it doesn't work inside a mobile, or it doesn't work on desktop, or it doesn't— you know, there's, there's little tweaks because they might have a resolution that's different than this person over here. There's not a single perfect algorithm out there for software development in the marketing world. You have to take some risks. You might say something, it might be totally wrong, it might get you bad publicity, but there is nothing that— I would say in 99% of the cases, bad publicity is okay publicity because it's publicity. You got your name out there. It's all on how you handle it. I mean, there's certain things that you could do that you'd classify in that 1% that you're never going to come back from, and you shouldn't have done those in the first place. But most of the cases Put yourself out there, take risks, and pivot if it's not working for you. And in the small business world, being able to believe in yourself and not trusting what these so-called experts are out there, and being able to go with your gut, that's probably my biggest advice for any small business owner.

Yeah, there's this concept that I don't remember where I learned it, but it wasn't my idea, of knowing enough And I think that has cost me a lot of money over the years, specifically around marketing. It was like, well, I have this problem, I'm just going to throw it on your plate and you fix it, right? Right. But not having enough knowledge about what is possible or what is potentially going on so that I can monitor or hold accountable the people that are doing that. For a long time, a lot of it is what I just referred to as a black box.

I don't know what goes on in there.

There. And, and that's a dangerous place to be as a business owner because you can be taken advantage of. But even if they're not trying to take advantage of you, you really don't know whether they're doing their job, uh, correctly or not.

And guess what? Most of these marketing companies are going to give business owners— you got this many likes, you got this many comments, you have this many people following you. Are they the right people? Who's liking? Who's doing that? And right, I've never had any of my bills ever paid by likes and No, no.

And at the end of the day, if you were going to boil it down in some form or fashion, the business owner wants leads, calls, you know, actionable results that you can put your hand on, right?

They want money in the bank account. Now, them keeping it in their bank account, that's a whole different story. That's on them, right?

But I remember one marketing agency client I had that was working with a charter aircraft company, and the, the charter company was saying, well, this, this isn't— these marketing efforts aren't working. And they came back and said, well, here's all of these calls that were initiated from this campaign. And they went back and found out that no one was manning that phone line. And it, and it's like, you know, it's— and that goes back to the whole know enough, right? Because The marketing agency was doing their job, they were getting results, but internally they didn't have the right follow-up process to manage the leads. And so it was a waste of money.

But whose fault was that? I've seen it happen. Yeah, I saw a roofing company that canceled one cell phone number, and that was the number that all their calls were going to because their assistant wasn't there anymore. Yeah, like, it's been really dead the last 3 months. Like, it took you 3 months to realize you weren't getting phone calls?

Yeah. And how long did it take them to figure out that it was the phone that they turned off?

We've— I started going through the marketing campaign and I called the number and it just— it was disconnected. I'm like, we— this is, this is a problem. Bad. Like, what happened? Like, well, don't you check that? Like, well, how would I— I don't call— how often do I call you?

Yeah. Well, did they get the phone number back? No. No, that's disappointing.

So it was one of those things where you had to go through, you had to update it and change it. And that's where, I mean, speaking of phone numbers, I hate tracking call numbers. That's probably one of the biggest things that marketing companies push on business owners that cost them probably the most, because once they leave that marketing agency, they lose that tracking number, and now it's the number that's out there. And once you let anything out of that genie's bottle and it goes out on the internet, it's hard to pull it back in or get it updated to be changed.

Yeah, yes, I know that from experience, the trying to hunt down numbers, like where in the hell is this number showing up? Like people are calling this number but I have no idea where it shows up in the world. I, I don't know where they're getting it.

I had people calling my personal cell phone for Simply Be Found a couple weeks ago and I'm like, how'd you get that? Well, happened to be in one spot happened to be on my LinkedIn profile, and they started calling it off of that. Of course, there are salespeople trying to sell me things, but, you know, did you buy? No. No. Okay. But it's one of those things to where, I mean, they're pulling data from somewhere. It's like the most, uh, probably the biggest miscommunic— or probably the biggest missed piece from any member that we have that comes on is they look at Simply Be Found as an ad, and they think that just because they paid and they put it out there, it's going to be an instant process. And since it's organic, it's not instant.

You have to earn it, baby.

You got to earn it. You have to go through it. It takes time and it takes different pieces. It's, um, my best story on that was a realtor in Dallas, Texas. She thought she was going to show up inside of voice search for best realtor since she put that keyword in, best realtor in Dallas, Texas, every single time. That's not gonna happen. I said, if I can guarantee you that spot, for one, you wouldn't probably be able to afford it. For two, I'm sure I probably wouldn't be talking to you because I'm sure I could sell that spot for exactly a lot of money.

Somebody else.

Yes. And for three, that's not the way this works.

Yeah. And that goes back to the know enough, like know what's, what's possible. Like, yeah, because otherwise you're going to get sold on a hope and a dream that—

yeah, it takes a little bit of work to make business work. It doesn't just happen.

It's fascinating, isn't it? Yeah. It's an amazing concept. Yeah. I'm always very skeptical of someone that is pitching pie in the sky. Like, I guess I'm old and cynical.

I don't know. I mean, it, it works better back in the day if we go back to Yellow Pages. Well, yeah. But then if you, if you miss the salesperson that came in to sell you Yellow Pages or you screwed up and put the wrong phone number in Yellow Pages, which I've seen happen before. You were screwed for a whole year. Yeah, that's true. You only had one opportunity for the whole year to be able to get that press.

That's exactly right. Could you find Yellow Pages anywhere anymore? No. Although it would be handy.

I, I tried finding an old Yellow Page to be able to do a YouTube video the other day. Like, I wanted one of those great big Denver, like, yeah, where they had multiple different books. I'm sure somebody has them somewhere. The library is like, we just threw those out like 3 weeks before. And I'm like, of course you did. Of course you did.

Well, I mean, even a white pages would be helpful, right? Yeah. Anyway, Robert, how do we find out more about Simply Be Found? I mean, I'm assuming it's just simply be found.

You can go to simplybefound.com. Um, you can also check us on YouTube. We have tons of YouTube videos. Our biggest thing is being able to help as many small businesses, educate them on what's happening in the world of marketing, and if they were a good fit for them, then great. We'd love to have them on as a member. They get marketing coaching, everything with that. And we have the tools to be able to make it happen, especially our social media tools. Well, that's probably the most popular tool this year. I love it.

Listeners, if you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Robert, thank you for your time and your insights. Listeners, if you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a message and I'll replace Robert. Until then, ta-ta for now. Awesome. Thank you.

And that's a wrap for today's episode of The Profitable Creative. Until next time, you money lovers. And don't forget, Profit First for Creatives is live via Amazon. Link below.