From Cubicles to Creativity | Lisamarie Shires

Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the internet where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Hollywood, Florida. Not Hollywood, California. Hollywood, Florida. Yes, you know the place Florida man lives. Joining me today, Lisa Marie Schreiers. Lisa, Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me today.

I'm excited, as I said before. So why don't you tell the audience who Lisa Marie is and what Lisa Marie does?

So I like when I get this question. I always used to be the person that would respond immediately with my job title and like what my, what my job is. And a few years ago, I kind of decided I'm going to answer the question a little bit differently. I'll get to that. But who Lisa Marie Shires is, first and foremost, I am a mother. I am a creative. I am an entrepreneur. I'm a wife. Being a mom and being a wife are my two biggest priorities. And for a long time in my career, those were not my priorities. So I had things a little bit backwards. So everything that I do now in my business, which I'll share about in a second, revolves around that, revolves around my family, revolves around my kids, really making a concerted effort to build and establish a life-first business.

So, I love that.

Yeah, thank you. So, with that, what I do professionally, I am a business mentor for commercial filmmakers, photographers, producers as well. And production companies, and I help them grow their businesses from the inside out.

Okay, so Bob Brignaras, uh, who will be speaking with you at the upcoming Creative Revolution event in October, uh, I heard him speak last week, and, um, let me tell you, first of all, after he did his, his deal at the conference I was at, I'm like He is so good, you're going to be blown away. Anyway, he started with that, you know, when guys meet each other, I— maybe it is with females, I don't know, but guys, it's always like, what do you do, right? And, uh, he, he didn't like the term coach because it— although he was a basketball coach his professional career, so it wasn't that he didn't like the name, but, um, He just didn't like the label. And so he came up with, he just really thought on it, and his response is, "I'm the person that asks the questions you won't ask yourself." And he said, "It's funny how people just kind of move on." They're like, "Oh, okay," and go on to the next person. "Yeah, what do you do?" So I love the fact that you are very clear about what you do. And yeah, the labels, let's face it, we're humans. We like to simplify things so our brains can understand them. And so when I throw out CPA, people are like, oh, okay, I know what that means, right? Or I say a coach or whatever, right? Okay, so I'm done rambling. Let's go back to the origin story of Lisa Marie. Um, how did you get started in this business?

Oh man, um, not the traditional path, which would be, you know, going to film school or something like that. I found my way into production, where I started was in a gray, windowless office with fuzzy cubicle walls and humming fluorescent lighting overhead and lots of paperwork. Um, so I started in a very different industry And all it took was me sitting in that cubicle long enough to be like, this is not it. This is not it for me. I needed more. And I had, you know, I've always been a creative person.

And so what industry was this?

That was in government contracting.

Oh, Lord have mercy. Yeah.

Okay. I live near, I live near DC. So it's very—

Did you have, did you have any self-awareness before you took this job of like, this probably isn't for me? Or was it a— had to because I needed to eat kind of thing?

Like, no, it was very much, um, because I studied economics, uh, as in my undergrad. So I studied economics and, um, it felt like the path, like it felt like, like where I was supposed to go and what I was supposed to be doing.

So this is what economists do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, budget analysis. And I was, um, involved in like contract negotiations and things like that. So I learned a lot, I learned a lot, but I also learned that this wasn't my destiny. Um, but what's really interesting is looking over, you know, the trajectory of my career, everything made sense. Every move made sense. Every shift made sense. Everything built upon it, built upon itself. But I think it was really me taking the opportunity to say yes to those, uh, instincts kicking in and saying yes to following my heart and following the things that I was interested in in order for that to, to be so. For it all to make sense in the end. So I knew I didn't want to do it. Yeah. I knew I didn't want to be there anymore. I needed something more creatively fulfilling. So while I was working there, I went to school for photography and I was getting my MBA at the same time. So I was working a full-time job, high-pressure job, MBA student, photography student. It was a crazy time, but I was young, so it was fine.

Okay. You didn't have anything else going on?

No, no, no kids yet. I— no husband yet. Um, so, um, so I fell in love with photography. Um, and after I finished school, um, I started to take a few clients on the side. And when I felt like, okay, I could do this— and I'm a, I'm a, I'm a multi-generational entrepreneur, like entrepreneurship runs in my family, so I think that's just like how it was supposed to be. Um, I took, I took the leap. So I took the leap and I left government contracting behind and started shooting stills. So— oh, go ahead.

Well, no, I mean, I— so I wanted to dig into that life choice there. So how, if you can remember, uh, what, what was your mindset at that point? Like, it— I have my story, but I'm curious what you— that was like for you.

Yeah, so I had all the security in the world. I had the security of a salary. I had a pension. Like pensions were, were around then. Um, I had great health insurance, and it was like none of it even mattered to me because I fell so deeply in love with the craft of photography, and I just had such concrete certainty that I could make it work.

And so, so the fear, the fear of, uh how am I going to do this, how am I going to make a living was not an issue?

It wasn't. It wasn't an issue in the beginning because I have always been the type of person, and I think it comes from my lineage of everyone being entrepreneurs and having their own businesses, of I can create what I want, I will figure it out no matter what. There's nothing that's going to light a fire under my ass more than me just like going for it.

Yes.

I'm the only thing that is going to be in the way of my own success. So, um, that's— that was the vibe moving into this shift. A week after I quit that job, then reality like really started to sink in. Reality started to sink in. I was like, oh no, what did I do? What did I do? Can't go back. Um, I mean, I guess I could have, but that was not an option. Uh, so like I said, like it really lit a fire under my butt to figure this out. Um, and I had to learn how to be a business owner very, very quickly. Like, very, very quickly. I made a lot of mistakes. I, um, I remember I— like, one of the first things that I did, um, was I ran a Groupon. You know Groupon?

Oh yeah.

So I started doing like family, family photography, um, I shifted into commercial and more like documentary humanitarian photography, but I started with family photography. I ran a Groupon. I think I sold like 200 of them and I had to do these family photos all within a 3-month period. I burnt out so hard and so fast. So that's just one example of the many mistakes that I made.

And you didn't get paid much for it.

I didn't get paid much. No, no, no, no, no, no. So it was a massive effort for very little financial reward. But it got me going, it got me shooting, it got me working. Um, so yeah, that's like where, where it really started. And from there, then I was like, I hate kids, I'm not shooting them anymore or photographing them anymore.

Um, you can't shoot kids, Lisa Marie, they put you in jail.

I know, I know, I know. Yeah, poor choice of words. Um, uh, and so then I started shifting into like, okay, The— you can make a lot of money shooting weddings, you can make a lot of money doing family photography, especially if you, you know, have a lot of experience and you go really high-end. Um, but I started— my interest started to shift. So this whole time, from back then to now, I'm always just like following the breadcrumbs of like, what's, uh, where are my interests guiding me? And that pushed me towards— I want to tell like real stories about real people. Um, so that pushed me more into, um more like documentary photojournalism style of work, um, that I was able to apply in a commercial setting. So I started to really land in the higher education space, um, shooting campaigns for universities, um, and then I was going off and doing my own personal projects and going to Cuba illegally and Nicaragua and doing photo workshops in Nicaragua.

So— So you had an affinity for communists, I see. The combination between those two.

Yeah, there's a common theme there. But I had an affinity for the people and for the adversity that people in those circumstances have to overcome every single day, and the creativity and the ingenuity that they need to really embody in order to survive in that type of landscape. So I was really drawn to telling stories like that of the human condition. And so that's what I did. I did that for about 3 years. And then I got pregnant. And I had my first baby. So I got married in that time too, by the way.

But yeah. Yeah, that husband thing that, you know, we didn't, you know, he's an add-on.

Yeah.

Yeah. An accessory.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That changed. That was like another pivot point for me when I had my first baby.

And how long ago was that?

10 years ago.

Okay. So was it— I'm assuming it wasn't at that point that you shifted your priorities. Like, that was later. Okay. So Um, how did you get into coaching? Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now.

I got into coaching, um, so fast-forwarding things, I pivoted into producing after I had my first baby, um, and I've been producing. I mean, I was producing all of that time too, almost two decades now, because I was producing all of my own work. But, um, I went into producing for other people, agency, advertising agency side, uh, production company side. I own my own production company. Um, and it was right before the pandemic hit, uh, 2020. I think it was like January— it was, let me think, December 2019 or like January 2020. Um, I was working at an ad agency at the time. I was the director of video production there, managing a team of producers and an editorial staff, and I was so burnt out. I was so burnt out. I had truly felt like I had lost my identity.

So you went, you went back to work for somebody else?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hung up the camera after my first baby. I hung up the camera after my first baby was born. I wasn't gonna, you know, take off to Cuba again. I didn't want to just, I didn't want to like carry gear around anymore. And I thought that producing was a really great marriage of my business background um, and creative background. I was able to blend the two in that role. So I pivoted to producing after she was born. Um, and so yeah, like I said, I worked at different production companies as a producer, had a production company. I represented with a partner, um, directors and cinematographers around the world. Um, worked on ad agency side as well, creative, uh, production, uh, agency in New York where I had a global team of producers that I was managing as an EP.

Um, But yeah, was that difficult going back to work for somebody else?

So I went back to work for somebody else, and then I started my own production company.

Yeah.

Um, and then I went back to work for somebody else after I had my next children. I had twins. Um, so I feel like I've kind of fallen into working for other people when I really need to just like get my feet under me and like not have to worry about the hustle of being an entrepreneur. Just yeah, so it was like entrepreneur, had baby, work for someone else, start another company, had baby, work for someone else, start another company, essentially. Yeah.

So back to December 2019, when you start your coaching, why, what prompted that?

I, so, um, I was really burnt out working at this ad agency. I felt a total disconnect from myself. I felt like I didn't know who I was anymore.

Um, and I remember—

existential. It was.

That's not—

yeah, yeah, it really was. I, I, I look back at photos of myself back then and I was just like, oh, she looks like she doesn't have a soul. Uh, she, she looks like— because I was really thrown into a type of a work environment that is very, very high stress, working all hours of the night, have a, you know, a bunch of little kids that I'm also like, I'm trying to like balance being a mom and all that. Like, it was a lot. It was a lot. There was stuff going on in my marriage too at the time. Um, and I remember walking into the bathroom one morning and I looked at myself in the mirror and like, actually, like, it was— I realized I'm like, I haven't actually like looked at myself in the mirror aside to like brush my hair or something, but like I just looked at myself and I was like, this— the person looking back at me, I don't recognize. And I was like, I need to do something, and I didn't know what that something was. And then, um, a friend of mine back from my photography days, she popped up in my feed. We had like lost touch over the years, and she was posting all of this kind of like motivational, inspirational stuff. And I was like, what is she up to? And I came to find that she had become a coach, and I was like, hmm, there's something like interesting about this. So I had a conversation with her, and I didn't even know like, you know, what life coaching really was. I thought life coaching was for broken people, and I was like, I'm kind of broken right now, so maybe this is what I need. And had a conversation with her, hired her. Um, this is right before pandemic hit and we all went on lockdown. Um, and it was the most transformational experience of my life. And I was like, wow, someone that is trained to coach can make such a deep impact on, on other people, just like she did with me. And at the end of my time with her, I looked at her— her name is Piper— and I was like, Piper, I think I'm being called to be a coach. And she was like, I know. I know, because I've always been the type of person to mentor people and bring people under my wing. And I'm always a person that people come to for advice. And like, it just naturally kind of like made sense. So I—

yeah. You use the word called. And that means something in my head. What or who called you?

Oh, I never really put a persona to it. It's kind of just like, you know, this voice, maybe my own, I don't know whose voice it is, but it's like, mm, you should look into that. Ooh, like something about that feels good. Something about that, like I can't shake from my mind. I can't stop thinking about it. And usually when something like that happens, I usually go off and I pursue what that is. So it was the same thing with photography. It was the same thing with producing too. It's like this, this little voice that just won't go away. Um, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I want to do something. I want to make that kind of an impact. So just like I was seeking making a deep impact on, like, with the humanitarian photojournalism work, I was looking at coaching kind of similarly. Like, I can make a deep impact on people. Where at the time I was working in advertising, I was helping Fortune 500 companies make, right, and sell, like, make a lot of money and sell, sell their stuff. And I was so far removed removed from seeing the actual result of the actual, like, consumer. So, I wanted to get closer to that and feel that more intimately. And, I thought that coaching was a way to get there. So, I went to school again.

You went to school for coaching?

Yeah. I got certified through IPEC. It is one of the International Coaching Federation accredited schools.

Okay.

Super rigorous. So I was doing that while working full-time again, um, and oh my gosh, like, if I could send everyone in the world to school for coaching, what you learn about yourself and what you learn about people, um, and just like psych— like human psychology is so profound, um, and could be so beneficial in literally every, um, every profession.

Yes. Do you still have a coach?

Oh, yeah. Heck yeah. Well, I will forever, ever and ever.

I think, I think, I think just a public service announcement here for the audience. Don't hire a coach that doesn't have a coach, because if they don't have a coach, they're not taking their own medicine. And, you know, yeah, that's all I'll say about that.

Yeah, I would agree with that 100%. Yeah.

So what do you think? I have some thoughts on this, but I'd like to hear your thoughts first about what makes a person a good coach. Hmm.

This is where I feel very strongly about working with a coach that actually has training behind them on how to do it ethically. Empathetically, that doesn't push their own agenda onto their clients or their own opinions and thoughts and things like that. So I— sorry, repeat the question one more time. I just lost it.

What do you think makes a good coach?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So number one, someone that's been trained. Number two, someone that is an excellent listener. And, um, has like, you know, a trained ear to look— a trained ear and a trained eye to look at body language, to pick up on certain words, and someone that can follow the energy of whatever that client is like sharing or putting out in whatever, whatever the context of the conversation is. Um, it's, it's someone that can ask really, really empowering questions and help you pull— arrive to your own answers, because your answers as a client are going to be better than any answer you're going to get from anybody else. The work that I do now is a blend of coaching and consulting. So I do do advisory work, consulting work.

You just said doo-doo.

I sure did.

There you go. Sorry, that's my 14-year-old Christian coming out.

Sorry. Yeah, yeah. And also someone that can um, organize— not organize a conversation, but set the stage so that by the end of that call, you're not walking away still with like ideas and thoughts swirling around your mind. You have a step or an action plan to move forward, um, leaving that call, and it's very, very clear what the, the goal of the call is and what that client wants to get out of it. So if your coach isn't asking you things like that at the start, It's just a, not a red flag, but something to be aware of. And if you're working with someone, like, you're paying for that time, like, you want to get something out of it. So if it's not your coach that is suggesting, okay, what do you want to get out of this today? What do you want to walk away with? How do you want to walk away feeling? And what do you want to walk away with doing? Then take that responsibility on for yourself and make sure that's communicated.

Yes. Well, you and I agree. I think My experience, both as a coach and as being coached, is that one, it's not therapy, right? And I think the distinction between coaching and therapy is coaching is action-oriented. Like, you know, you can definitely dive into the feelings and should dive into the feelings, but it's not about you know, going back and dealing with your trauma so much as it is, okay, what, what, what are you going to do now? And the second thing is that you said that really resonates with me is that the answers come from the, the, the client, not from the coach. I think I struggled with that originally because I thought I had to have the answers. But I had an experience with my coach who I've worked with for 3 years, and he— we normally do it via phone call. And he asked me a question. I just paused for probably a full minute because I was just thinking about my answer. And I had some profound realization at that point. I just started talking, and a few minutes later, he says something. A couple of months later, he said, "I have to admit something to you." I said, "What?" He said, "You remember that time that you had that realization?" I don't remember what it was, but at the time, I thought it was profound. I said, "Ja." He said, "Well, I actually hit mute accidentally and I was asking you questions, but you weren't— you couldn't hear me. And he said, what that taught me is I need to shut up more. Right. And, you know, give that space. You talked about that space, creating that environment where someone can come to their own discoveries and conclusions. I think working with a coach for me also helps me get everything out of my head and, you know, just talking about it. Some people write stuff down. It doesn't matter, but getting it out of your head gives you clarity automatically. Like, it forces you to organize it, right? So even if there was nothing else, You don't have to have a coach to talk to somebody about things, but someone that will listen, like not try to give you advice, not try to give you an opinion, but just give you a space to talk and get your ideas out is really important.

Yeah, but I mean, having the safety of someone that can actively listen and not, like I said, like push their own thoughts or ideas or agendas onto, onto the client or onto the, onto the person, um, is really valuable. I, um, I remember doing— where was I when I did this? Um, it might have actually been in therapy or couples therapy. I think it, I think it was couples therapy. Um, but we had to do this active listening practice where I would talk to my husband and he would say absolutely nothing, and then he would repeat everything back that he heard, and then he would go. And so it wasn't responding to anything that I said, it wasn't commenting on anything I said, and it was such a really— it was such a beautiful, beautiful exercise. And I think if you have someone in your life, even if you're not working with a coach, you have someone in your life that can offer you that, it's such a gift.

Yes.

Of just receiving what you have to say and not giving anything back in return. Um, you had also, uh, talked about, um, like, it's not— it's not therapy. Um, and, and you're, you're exactly right. Coaching is not therapy. Um, uh, and most coaches are not trauma-informed. So you handing your trauma over to a coach is only setting you up to potentially be re-injured. So having a coach that can see what's happening and make a therapeutic recommendation is also something that I would, you know, make sure that you're with someone that you can trust to give recommendations like that. Um, but I like to look at coaching as like therapy, like, like a relay race, like in track. Um, you're— you go to therapy and then after therapy you hand— the therapist hands the baton over to the coach and then the coach takes the baton and helps you take action and like move forward. You're looking forward instead of looking back and making sense of, you know, the past. Um, and yeah, sometimes just talking just offers you so much clarity and offers you so much space in your head. I'm, I'm working right now with a group of women are working through the book The Artist's Way. Have you heard of that book before?

I think that's honestly one of the books that my, my daughter gave me that I haven't read yet, and she's given it and taken it back and given it again. So I need— evidently I need to read it.

Yeah, well, one of the exercises in The Artist's Way is called the morning pages, and as soon as you wake up, before you even get like get out of bed, you're supposed to just like write. So instead of talking, you just write it all down, stream of consciousness. It doesn't have to look good. It could just be sloppy, just like all thoughts that are in your head out onto the pages, and then you start your day. Um, so it made me think of that when you were talking about that, just like talking and just clearing your, clearing your head and getting it out onto the table is, is helpful. And Morning Pages does the same thing.

All right, I have to read The Artist's Way. Yeah, my daughter is a figurative oil painter, and, uh, professionally, like, she teaches art as well. But she's— as a matter of fact, we have an art opening we're going— she has a solo show in Tulsa, uh, starting tomorrow night. We're gonna go up and do that opening.

So, uh, it's amazing.

Yes, it is. But it, you know, what, what was, what was interesting, and I don't know why this is coming to my head, but I'm just going to go ahead and go with it. Um, when, when I set out to start to write my book, Profit First for Creatives, I was doing it to establish credibility in the space. And it was truly a marketing thing. But as I went through the journey of writing the book, it was very cathartic in that I realized as I was retelling my story in the book and interviewing clients and relaying their stories, I realized that A lot of the, a lot of that story was my story, uh, in the sense that I had so much in common with the creative entrepreneur with my approach to money. And, uh, it was, it was very insightful. And a lot of that was influenced by my daughter because she had this attitude of she really didn't care about the business aspect of it. She just wanted to paint what she was inspired to paint. And, um, you know, whether it sold or not was way down the list, right? And from my standpoint, I was like, well, you can't do business that way. Like, you can't make a living that way. You gotta, you gotta be thinking about who you're painting for, who's going to buy it, what, you know, blah, blah, blah. But it came back down to— and you talking about your initial jump into photography really resonated with me— is that there's this passion that is your deep motivation, right? And as Todd Henry says, Passion, the Greek word for passion, actually means suffering. And you have to be willing to suffer for your passion. And your passion gets you through the suffering because if you don't have passion for it, you won't push through the suffering. And anyway, that, I don't know really what I'm trying to say, but Yeah, I'm going to stop talking because my flow lost.

I don't know.

Maybe you can help.

That's okay. Yeah. Well, I think like I love that, that the passion equals suffering and you don't really suffer unless you have a passion. I think that that discomfort, that level of discomfort, especially if you're a creative entrepreneur, is something that I don't think a lot of people, um, uh, anticipate when they decide, okay, I'm going to— this is, this is my life's pursuit. They don't think about the discomfort side of things. They think about the creating and the beauty and like what they could make and maybe sell. Maybe they're thinking about it in more of like a business sense, but they're not thinking about the suffering. And then when the suffering comes and that discomfort starts to show up because, oh shoot, I have to pay bills. Oh shoot, I am a responsible adult and have to pay taxes. Like all of these things. And then it hits you and it's like, I just want to be an artist. I don't want to be like a businessy person. But really business can be creative.

Business can be creative.

It has to be. Yeah.

It has to be. But yeah, I think you're right. I think, and that's why not everybody's cut out to be an entrepreneur because you have, I honestly think entrepreneurs, there's an undefined mental issue that we all share. I don't know exactly what I'd call it, but we're definitely built differently. And I think we have a— we're more optimistic. We are also delusional. We usually have shiny object syndrome where, you know, oh, look at, there's something new. We usually are not really excited about the mundane, you know, like, I don't know how many business owners, myself included, you know, you start out with this passion and you build something and then you can't stand it. It's like, I don't like this anymore because it's not fun anymore, right? Yeah. And you start to lose your passion. And that certainly was my case. And I actually had to leave the business for a while, for a couple of years. And only because of finances did I have to come back into the business to help fix it. But, you know, at that point, I realized, okay, if I'm going to do this, I have to do it differently than I was doing it because I don't like it anymore. My passion's gone. When I left the business, my brother was my partner and I told him, I said, I left him in charge and I said, I'm gonna start this thing and if it doesn't work, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I'm not gonna come back and run an accounting firm. I said that very definitively. And, um, but, but that was because I'd lost my passion, right? But, but doing things differently, myself growing personally, I was able to rekindle that passion and find a way to have the business in a way that served me, not, not just the business. And so with that, I want to transition into At what point did you have that epiphany where— it sounds like a similar epiphany— where you want a business that serves you as opposed to you serving the business?

Yeah, I was so— I resonate so much with a lot of what you just said. My identity was so tied to my work. I think the point in which I realized that something needed to shift was one day my husband just looked at me and he was like, "Lise, what are you doing? What are you doing?" I was choosing work over everything, over him, over my babies. And I realized it's like, okay, when I let work take the wheel, I'm frustrated, I'm mad all the time, I'm burnt out. Um, I might be moving up the ladder, but I'm not feeling that reward aside from my bank account. I'm not like feeling the reward of embodying that at all. My family is always coming last. I'm definitely coming last too. I wasn't taking care of myself. Um, and it just really just took him like looking me in the eye and saying, what are you doing?

Um, And so that's when I, you know, and I'm sure that was in a very loving way.

It was, it was, it was in a concerned, loving way. And I was like, yeah, what am I doing? What am I doing here? And it was like around that time where I like, you know, I found coaching and got into coaching. And then I started to like, really shift my part, like reorganize my priorities. And when I did that, I was like, okay, I can have my own thing. I can have my own business and do my own thing without burning out. I can do work that I'm passionate about and that I love and serve people. I can make really good money doing it. And I don't have to, like, I don't have to fit into any particular box. I can make whatever I want, including my career. And so once I started really getting in the belief of that, Instead of in the belief of like, oh, I have to take this job because, oh, I have to take this promotion because, because, because, oh, I have to go and fly to wherever for the shoot for 2 weeks and leave everybody behind. Instead of like, I have to, I really shifted to I choose to. And when I started living that, everything started to change. Everything felt easier. Everything felt lighter. And, I really do believe in the power of like business energetics. And, it was like I made an energetic shift by moving from I have to to I choose to. And, the business followed my personal lead. And so, I tell my clients this all the time. You don't follow your business, your business needs to follow you, which is why we do do a lot of internal work in my coaching program.

You said doo-doo again.

Oh, gosh.

I absolutely love that. Have you read the book What Happy People Know by Dr. Ken Baker? It was recommended to me a few weeks ago, and I loved it so much I bought copies for everybody in my life, and I highly recommend it. But that's exactly what he talks about, is one of the foundational things about being human and being happy, content, joyful, whatever you want to call it, is the agency. You have a choice. And, you know, sure, there are a lot of things we don't choose and we can't choose. Like, you can't choose whether you get sick or whether a loved one gets sick, right? But you have a choice as to how to respond. But doing that I have to mindset, he doesn't use that terminology, but I really love it. The have to versus choose to is that when you use that have to language, you're a victim, right? Like, I don't have any control over this. And that's a lot of times not true. I mean, there are times when it is true, but yeah.

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, 100%. Um, and, and, and living in victim is— it's, it's very catabolic energy. It's very, um, holds you back from your potential. Um, that's where, like, taking responsibility and owning your own outcomes and owning your own results is, is really, really powerful. Because when you start to think about how your thoughts will equal your results like, guarantee you 100% of the time that's going to be true. So if you're thinking of, I have to, I don't have any other choice, you're literally not going to have any other choices open up for you, or you're not going to have the space to even be able to create other opportunities for yourself. Um, so if your thoughts shift to, um, you know, I can make and I can create anything that I want, yes, and you really start to embody that and you really start to believe and like live that thought, your results are going to be wildly different. You're not going to feel pinned down to something. You're not going to be sitting in victim. You're gonna be sitting in empowerment.

I love that. I can't think of any better way to end that interview. Thank you. How do people find out more about working with you?

You can find me on Instagram. My handle is just my name, Lisa Marie Shires. Or you can go to my website.

LisaMarieShires.com. Lise, as your husband— Lise, Lise.

Yeah, he calls me Lise.

Okay, I'm not going to call you that. That'd be weird. We'll have those links in the show notes. Listeners, if you like what you heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, please shoot us a message and we'll get rid of Lisa. Until then, ta-ta for now.

Thank you.