From Navy Medic to Novelist: Kristof Morrow's Journey | Kristof Morrow

First of all, like, you work in a place, like, you work in healthcare, you're working in a hospital setting. There's a lot of pressure for you to perform, like, to the T. You have to do everything absolutely correctly. You have to— there's a lot of extra stuff that you do in the military that most people don't know about. Like, you don't just go to your job. You have to go to PT, you have duty, and whatever other obligations that come up, which happen quite a bit. I stopped sleeping though for a long time because I was afraid of not showing up to work on time.

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Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Salt Lake City, Utah. Never been there. Would love to go. I hear it's beautiful. Joining me today is author Christophe Moreau. Welcome, Christophe.

You're very kind to have me, Christian. Thank you.

Well, I'm, I'm very glad that you, you're here. So tell us who Christophe Morrow is and what he does.

I'm an author, uh, an award-winning journalist, award-winning photographer. I am a disabled vet— Shakespeare— a disabled veteran. Um, that's where the Tourette's came from. Okay, Shakespeare. And I just moved back from Canada Nice. I love it back home in the United States. Oh, I missed it so much. I didn't realize how much I would miss it.

What were you doing in Canada? Were you in witness protection?

Yes, exactly. I knew I liked your show. I knew I liked it. Profitable Creative. So yeah, I was married and exploring. It was adventure. Nice. For the sake of adventure.

Yeah, there's a lot to explore up there for sure.

Oh my God, there is. It's empty though.

Well, it's interesting you mentioned Tourette's. I have a separate podcast called The Chris Project, and I had gentleman on there that had Tourette's. It was interesting to me because I didn't know a lot about it. So his Tourette's presented early on in, in childhood, and he described it as, you know, when there's a fly or a bug on your skin and you just have this feeling of like you want to get it off of you. That's the way he described it. So how would you describe it?

I understand the sensation that he's trying to describe. It's a bit like, it feels like a sneeze. I think that most people would describe it as a sneeze because it's often sudden and unavoidable generally. Or only barely manageable to suppress. Shakespeare. Yeah, that's relatively close to I, I think I understand what he means by that.

Yeah. And he, he, you know, he tried medication and did not think that helped. And, and essentially he said he kind of grew out of it, which I guess some people do if they have it at an early age. But he said the sensation's still not gone, it's just more manageable. So tell us a little bit about the books that you write.

Well, it started out as a necessity. Well, a fortunate enough necessity, but it was unfortunate at the time because I, Shakespeare, given my condition and how it manifests, the government was trying to find me work that I could do.

Okay.

In British Columbia. And they eventually called me October 16th, 2021, and they said, we can't find you anything because you, Shakespeare, because of the way your condition manifests, like you hurt yourself a lot and you break things. Like, I've cracked my desk all the way through. Holy cow. I've given myself black eyes, busted lips, busted nose. It's really extraordinarily painful to have.

I can imagine.

I've broken a knuckle. Yeah. So I can't—

Shakespeare.

I'm trying so hard to not to curse.

No, that's fine. I curse all the time. As a matter of fact, jokingly— well, I don't know, jokingly— we have some dear friends that we've been friends with for decades. And when their kids were young, they asked them, said, does Mr. Brim have Tourette's? And I'm like, no, I, I just say random shit.

So, well, they called me and they told me that they couldn't find me work. And so they said, you, you won awards for journalism and stuff, so maybe you should go back to writing, doing that. And I, I did. I won awards for short fiction as well and poetry at two different colleges I went to. So about 10 minutes after I hung up with them, I started writing my first book, which is called the, the series It's called The Second Son and it's volumes 1, 2, which is one book, and then volume 3 is a separate book. And I'm writing volume 4 right now.

Now, these are novels?

Yes. Okay. Yeah. And it's work of literary epic fantasy. Okay.

Good?

Yeah. I found out that they actually use my first book to teach Dickens, Victorian literature classes. Yeah. Interesting. Which is consistent with my history with Dickens. When I discovered him—

He found you.

He found me, right? I realized that his music, the music of his work made sense to me and adapted his style into my own. And he's a really large influence for me. So when I found that out, someone just wrote to me on Instagram and said, "Oh yeah, my intro to Victorian literature professor recommends your book." from when we got to Dickens. And I was like, that's him.

Now you're talking about Charles Dickens, right?

Charles Dickens.

Okay, so are you as verbose in your writing as Charles? Because I remember reading him when I was a kid and it was like, God, this is boring. I mean, can you get to the point?

No, it's not quite— I try to toe the line a little bit more because I'm from the South. I'm from the Deep South, and storytelling is a way of life down there.

It's a—

right, this is what we do. And so I took take the philosophy of trying to simplify things for the audience because that's just the way it is. That's the way we tell stories with Charles Dickens. So I think it's a really interesting synthesis.

Yes. An abbreviated Charles. Yeah. All right. Okay. So I've got a couple of questions framing this. So let's back up. You grew up in the Deep South, thereabouts. When you say Deep South, I think Alabama or Mississippi.

It's Texas.

Yeah, no, that's not the Deep South.

Come on, you— where are you from?

I'm from Oklahoma. Texas is a whole nother country.

Texas is the South, man. Texas.

Well, it is the South, I'll agree with that, but the Deep South, I don't know.

Well, there's a lot of reasons why I would argue for that, but it would get weirdly political. And anyway, so yeah, it is a very curious place because I've lived all— I've lived in Louisiana I've been to— I lived in Florida when I was stationed there, and I, I still feel like— I live in South Carolina now, which is okay, apparently the Deep South.

No, I— no, it's not.

No, I don't think so.

I mean, you might throw Georgia in there, but to me it's, it's the Gulf States.

But I guess I live like 90 miles from the border of Georgia.

Okay, so you grew up where in Texas?

Did you live around Houston area?

Well, my wife's from Houston. Oh cool. So went into the military after high school? No, you said you went to college.

I went to college after the Navy.

Okay, so you were in the Navy. What did you do in the Navy?

I was a corpsman. I was a Navy medic. Nice.

Yeah, nice. Okay, so how long were you in the Navy?

About a year and a half before I developed Tourette's.

And you believe that the— your work caused the, the Tourette's. So what specifically caused that from being a corpsman?

Uh, well, it's actually a number of things. First of all, like, you work in a place— like, you work in healthcare, uh, you're working in a hospital setting. There's a lot of pressure for you to perform, like, to the T. You have to do everything absolutely correctly. You have to— there's a lot of extra stuff that you do in the military that most people don't know about. Like, you don't just go to your job You have to go to PT, you have duty and whatever other obligations that come up, which happen quite a bit. I stopped sleeping though for a long time because I was afraid of not showing up to work on time. Wow. And so that's actually how it manifested, I think, just generally. I also lost a shipmate and that really messed me up for a while.

Were you deployed at the time?

No, no, no, no. He committed suicide. Mm, this is a guy I was friends with and worked with every day.

That's awful. Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy, and if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. Yeah, so you get disability, you, you're discharged. What was next?

Uh, to make something of myself, I think. You know, I had a lost purpose. I had surrendered purpose being in, uh, going from being in the Navy because I, I felt like I had a reason for being. And right, but then whenever I was out of the military, it was like, well, I need to invent another purpose. And I had been writing in the Navy a little bit and I enjoyed wasting taxpayer dollars printing my stories and giving them to people.

Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm writing my estimated tax payment to the feds this week, so I appreciate it.

Oh no. Sorry about that. No, I just, I printed out, I would write these different stories and just for fun and give them out to people and expect them to read of me now, now that I've written a few books. It's absurd. Yeah, I needed to invent a new purpose. And so I went to school to be an EMT and also tried to go to school, I think, for English a little bit. It's funny because I failed my first semester of college English, but that same semester that I failed, I won their annual creative writing contest.

That sounds about right.

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So I went to the— I went to college and tried to get something of an education.

So you finished school and, well, were you an EMT at some point?

Yeah, for a while, very briefly. They, um, whenever I applied for a company, they moved me into— I was doing like medical, medical alarms stuff, and then they moved me to be a video analyst for their for their, like, security something. I was working for, like, the largest private, uh, ambulance company, I think, in the U.S., which is Acadian Ambulance.

Okay.

Yeah, it was an interesting job. You know Ty Burrell from, uh, Modern Family? Yeah, yeah, he plays the dad. I saved his house from getting robbed once because we did— yeah, we provide security for them. They're— for— they did, uh, and, uh, There was somebody running around in the backyard in the middle of the night trying to get through the window or something. And I called the— I had the cops and I got to talk to them on the phone. It was really cool. That's a good—

that's a good bar story right there.

Yeah, it is. It's great.

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So at what point did you decide to do writing full-time, and, and what was the thought process or the motivation there?

Well, I think I didn't— like, I, I'd always wanted to go into writing. I think, I think— sorry, I guess that's what you meant. Um, I wanted to go into writing for a long time, but it didn't seem practical in any sense, you know, especially now., with AI and everything, it's, it's, it's really difficult to compete with stuff that can be generated just and amuse people. But it didn't seem practical at the time until I became a journalist. That's when it started to, I realized that maybe I could do something with it. That was when I was 27. I got work as a journalist.

How long did you work for a, as a journalist?

About a year. Honestly, it was about a year. It wasn't very long. I moved to Canada.

Right.

And that was whenever my journalism career ended, but I still won an award, two of them.

What kind of things did you, did you write about?

Which is really funny because I don't watch sports. I love playing sports. Okay. I love playing sports, played football, played basketball, played baseball, you know, but I, I just don't care to watch them. And so it was quite funny whenever they, they were like, well, we, we'll start you out in sports and And so I did. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Yeah, it was pretty fun. But then, um, my editor knew that I wanted to move into news, uh, and that covers everything from like local elections to trials to council meetings. Anything remotely political was covered, whether or not it was divisive at all, right? That sort of thing. And, um, you know, like other events that come up, like we had Hurricane Harvey come through And so we— I covered that, and that's what I won an award for, was the photograph I took during that.

So do you dabble in photography as well?

No, I think I have the instincts for it, but I've met so many people that are better than me, right, that are far better photographers. They're just as amateur as I am. Uh, yeah, I don't really mess around with photography at all. I just know how to frame photos, I guess.

Yeah, so moving into novels, and you mentioned AI, how did you decide what you were going to write your first novel about? Was there a story that was just there that, that had been there a while that you wanted to write, tell, or—

I had something of a villain that I realized that I could adapt to the climate of issues and, uh, that we deal with now. Like, for more specifically, like climate change and things like that, uh, there's a sort of monster in my book. It's more so plural, actually. It's a swarm kind of thing, and they burn everything in their path, and it's, uh, and it creates this extraordinary amount of ash and, and problems. And I had that villain, I had that monster invented for a different story that I had written only a page of. I adapted it to when I realized that I could broaden its purpose. And so I did that, and I, I wrote the first chapter thinking it was going to be just a short story.

Okay.

And I was going to kill off someone that was really— that you would get to know and love. And then I realized, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna write this. I wrote, I wrote it, I finished it, and I said, okay, I left it without being resolved. And then I said, okay, I'm going to write a second short story, completely different, different area, different characters, everything. And so I did. The first 3 chapters of my book are 3 different parts of the world, 3 with different characters, with, with dozens of characters across 3 different parts of the world. And, and you learn how they're connected as the story goes on.

Okay.

And so that's what I— and that's what I did. I, I just started writing 3 different stories and then like sort of like a very similar to George R.R. Martin's strategy, which he did with Game of Thrones.

Yeah, it almost sounds like an anthology, but you're writing all of it.

Yeah, and the stories are connected and they're actually very, very much so interconnected. And yeah, that's alluded to within the stories themselves.

You're like, oh, So let's talk about the business of, of writing. What challenges have you run into making money at this gig?

Well, marketing is a lot more fun than I thought it would be. I enjoy making the ads and making videos. I went from last year, I had 50 followers, right? Or the year— actually, now it's the year before last. In 2023, in July of 2023, I had about 50 followers. I was talking about Tourette's. I didn't talk about my work at all. And this is sort of by design, actually. I went viral on TikTok and it was kind of on purpose.

Okay.

Okay. So the way I did it for the first 3 weeks of my book, excuse me, of my account being open on TikTok, I discussed nothing about my books. All I did was talk about Tourette's.

So the books had already been published.

The book, the first book had been published.

Yeah.

Okay. And so my first book had been published and I, but I didn't talk about it at all. I talked about my, my experience with Tourette's and living with that. And I had about 50 followers. I made a video showing gratitude for, for someone buying, two people buying my book. And I made a video about that. And as a consequence of that video, a bunch of more people had bought my book and got me down to like Number 247 on Amazon's epic fantasy category. And so I made a video about that and that video went viral. And what I, but what I had done was also I made the digital version free for that week for like 5 days. And so it, it gave me a tremendous boost in the, in the Amazon rankings. So there was kind of, it was a little bit coordinated. Right. Into the video along with making it free. And then I sold hundreds of physical copies overnight. And so far I think I've sold like 2,400 copies, which is a modest number. But when you're doing all the marketing yourself and you're completely amateur to it, I've talked to other published writers and they say that that's very good. I don't know.

Well, I can tell you we sold 1,000 copies in 9 months. Which I've been told is, is good. It probably wasn't my— it was towards the lower end of my expectation. But it's— to your point, the marketing of the book is really where it's at. It doesn't really matter if the book's good. And I know we, we writers don't want to hear that. That's the truth. It is all in the marketing. What do you think resonated with your listeners that made the video go viral and the book sales go up?

I think it was a confluence of factors, I think, if I'm using that word correctly.

That sounds like it.

Yes. So the fact that I had so few followers actually was advantageous. Okay. You know, they saw that as legitimizing my gratitude in a sense. Right. And also the fact that, you know, I do, I did make the video in earnest. I was very grateful and very excited and I still am. Every time I sell a book, doesn't matter if it's 1 copy or 100, I have the same response. Right. You know, to this day I still text my friends like, I sold a book. I sold a book. They go, yeah, that's great. It's great. You know, it's just, Anyway, yeah, so it was also the fact that I had discussed Tourette's, I think, was a large part of it too, was that I had a legitimate sort of grievance towards my reality that I had to deal with that really shapes and undermines my ability to live a life that is fulfilling and attractive in a sense to people. Because it's difficult to live with Tourette's. It's really difficult.

Yeah, I would imagine it makes most social encounters awkward, especially when people are not— I don't want to say mature enough, uh, to handle it. But I mean, you know, I mean, if I'm being honest, that same type of social awkwardness shows up for a lot of disabilities. I mean, you know, people in wheelchairs or things like that, and, and people just get get weird around it. Like, from my perspective and my experience, it's for some reason they focus on the difference rather than the person, right? Mm-hmm. And they just can't get over the difference.

Yeah. I also think, like you said a moment ago, it has everything to do with them feeling just really awkward about the situation. They really don't know, because I try to give people a lot of grace when it comes to that sort of thing. Like, they they don't mean it maliciously. Right. They just really do not know what's expected of them. Right. Which is fair. Just to acknowledge my needs in terms of conversation. So if I'm having a tic, something's funny. It's funny because one of my favorite shows is Doctor Who and there's a character that has a stutter.

I love Doctor Who.

Oh my goodness gracious. Well, Donna Noble, Yeah, if you've seen the show, of course, for people that have seen it, Donna Noble, she is talking to a guy with a stutter. The guy's trying to get something out and she goes, "Oh, you can't talk." You know, that doesn't age well because when you think about it, it's one of those things that I realized that I was like, "Ooh, that's not good. That's not good to, right, you know, to point it out and to make fun of him and, and sort of thing." So in that sense, it's, it's quite antiquated in the way that it treats people with stutters. And I'm one of those people, right? Shakespeare. I have something of a stutter whenever I have— for example, if I'm expected to talk like at a drive-through or on the phone, you know, they're saying, you know, "How could I help you?" And I'm like, I have to talk right now and that's when it happens. I think that 80% of the time now most people are very accommodating.

Does stress trigger the Tourette's? Okay, so like the expectation that I've got, kind of like with a stutter, like, oh shit, I've got to talk, that just ramps up the anxiety and kind of a self-fulfilling thing.

Yeah, but most people, like, like you said a moment ago, are just very awkward about it and they don't mean it. They don't— they just really don't know what to do. I dated a girl that was in a wheelchair and she, like you said, also they don't know how to behave. They just lose all, you know, their, their social skills. It's really quite funny.

I want to pivot back to the book business for a second. You self-published?

I did, and I, I do— I had a reason for that. I, I— there was— it wasn't because I couldn't get traditionally published, which I sort of resent the notion that that's superior in the first place for a lot of reasons. Because first of all, you get far fewer royalties with, right, traditional publishing. They expect you to do most of the marketing yourself these days anyway. Generally, what they do is for some reason it's legitimizing, which I understand to an extent why it's legitimizing because you have an editor, I guess generally if you don't already pay your own editor. And so distribution is a large part of what their function is these days. Right. For me, whenever I, I thought about all of the great artists that have come out of like self-publishing platforms like YouTube and Spotify and different like music making programs, and I realized that it didn't matter that they were self-publishing. Justin Bieber, for example, I know that a lot of people have mixed feelings about him for some, uh, reason. He was a kid when he went viral and famous and became super well-known all around the world. He started on YouTube, right? You know, and there's so many celebrities now. Joji, another one who is an incredible, gifted, very, very brilliant musician, was making really silly parody videos and, and ridiculous videos on YouTube. And, um, Someone just told him, you know, in the comment section one time, he made a song for a video as a joke, but the song was actually quite good apparently. And the guy was, the guy said, you know, your music, I think you could actually do something with that. And he's now, he's like, for me especially, one of my favorite. So I realized that it didn't matter. I learned that Charles Dickens, it was rejected like 63 times from publishers. Ridicule. He was actually ridiculed. For his work, uh, for A Christmas Carol, which is without a doubt now considered one of the most beloved Christmas stories of all time, right? And he was laughed at for the way that that story resolved.

And yeah, you're steering into a topic that's actually kind of dear to my heart. I have a colleague that has created a company called Qvis And, uh, it's essentially a platform for musical artists, but it could be used by any content creator where you basically have a customized app that your followers can subscribe to. You can have free content, whatever. But his desire was to take it off of the major platforms, right? So you're not beholden to YouTube and you control the whole interaction with your fans, and you have complete control. You know, they take a small royalty off the top of sales through the platform, but it's nothing like YouTube or, or any— because we had Peter Thune on here, who's an old movie producer— I mean, a record producer— and he was talking about that as well. And he, he's actually helping, uh, Cody with this, this, uh, Qobuz. Because it's the publishers, the, the, the record labels, you know, whatever, they controlled the technology in the past and they controlled the distribution. But now technology is changing that so that it is that way now, but I don't think it's going to be in the future. Where people can put out their own work and benefit from it without— but like, like, you're— you and I are beholden to Amazon, right? I mean, we pay ridiculous royalties to them that they only earn because they have the distribution. Yeah, right. Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready Ready to make that full commitment? You can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. But if we as creators can get traction with the community through other means, other marketing, we don't really need them.

No. I started getting a lot of followers. I have about— I have pretty close to 9,000, which is— I know is a modest figure compared to many.

I know this as a— In 18 months, that's nothing to sneeze at.

Yeah. And a lot of writers I know that I've befriended over these past couple of years, they don't have even remotely close to that. Right. I know that there's a number of factors that contribute to that, but I'd like to believe the quality of my work has something to do with it.

Absolutely. Go back to what you said at the beginning with the AI, you can create a book using AI however you want, I mean, like either writing the whole thing or assisting you or whatever, and get it to publish within a week. Like, get the typesetting and, and get it in the format and get it uploaded. And if you can market it correctly, you can sell it. Now, whether it— like I said, whether the content's any good is Who knows? Uh, probably not, right?

Yeah.

But if you had to go out and earn your credibility like you did, uh, like I'm doing, you can't get away with just putting shit out there. And, and that's what I'm saying is that I, I think that it's kind of going to come back and bite them with the technology because yes, they control the distribution now, But now with the additional technology of— and this is the same thing with content on the web like Google and all these other things. There's just this explosion of crap out there that no one wants. And authenticity, building that community is going to become key because it's currency. Yeah, it's the currency. It really is.

Yeah, I agree completely for a number of reasons. I feel like AI-generated content is going to be— it undermines itself. First of all, I've learned that there's some kind of— the fact that it learns using mining content all over the internet, it's actually learning from itself. Yeah. AI models are learning from themselves. And so there's—

I don't remember what they call that, but there's some term. My son and I were talking about that. It just goes into a loop because it's just— feeding itself.

It, yeah, it's feeding itself. Yeah, but it's feeding itself its own shit. And so like, it's gonna be, it's gonna like come out and just gonna be more shit. And it's, it's, and it's not gonna be right. It's generating mistakes that it doesn't realize are mistakes. And then it's going to consume that content thinking this is the right way to do things. Right. And yeah, and so it's a, it's feeding itself. So it, well, that's okay.

Sam, Sam Altman, I don't know if you read yesterday, came out and said that 2025, was going to be the year that they achieved general artificial intelligence. Where— and I'm like, okay dude, I don't know what crack you're smoking, but the idea that artificial intelligence is going to have this critical mass where it now has general intelligence and passed the Turing test, you know, like, there's no way.

There's absolutely—

that's just bullshit. So stock. I don't believe it.

I have no idea, honestly. It makes mistakes pretty consistently. And I know this because if you talk to it and you talk to it about, if you talk to it, for example, about your own work or about anything you've written, it will misquote you pretty dramatically. It'll be like, "That's not something I wrote." That's not what I said. I recognize it right away. Yeah, it can't. Yeah, just can't. It is more limited than people realize.

Oh, so I created an online course for Profit First for Creatives for our clients, and I thought that would be a great use case for artificial intelligence, for an LLM. So I uploaded the book and I said, only using the book, only using the content of the book, write me a course outline based upon the book, right? And it got the first section right, but as it iterated through the chapters, it got worse and worse. And so then I broke it out and I was like, okay, only create a course outline on chapter 1, you know, and tried to piece it out. And I kept iterating, trying to get the prompt the way I wanted to. And then I finally gave up and I'm like, it's quicker for me to do the course. Like, to me, it's like, I just want this information in a different format. I don't want you to think anything. I don't want you to create anything. I just want you to take this and put it into a different format. But it couldn't do it. Now, I'll admit that maybe it's my lack of understanding of the LLM and I couldn't prompt it correctly. But for AI to be effective, it needs to not have to be prompted too much. Like, you know, an average person should be able to say, this is what I want, and get a fairly predictable outcome.

I would consider myself an expert in what I do, and I think many people would actually, and it's often wrong about stylistic things. And even, for example, there was one time it questioned a certain word that I used in a poem that I wrote, and it said, "These are the other words that you could use." And I told it why it was wrong, and the robot was— I call it the robot— and the robot was like, "Oh." You know what? You're right. Yeah, that makes sense that why it wouldn't work, why those— why the words that I suggested don't work and the ones that you chose make sense. Yeah. You know, it's just simply wrong and you have to be able to recognize that.

100%.

That's the thing. You have to be able to make that discernment and it often can't and people are relying on its expertise.

Yeah. Go to ChatGPT for your tax advice. That's what I suggest. How do people find your book, The Second Sun?

Mm-hmm. Like, it's Sun in the Sky.

Yeah. Okay. How do we find it?

It's on Amazon, and it's, of course, uh, and it's also, you can find it via my website, which is christophmaro.com.

Perfect. We'll put that in the show notes. I personally am going to go buy the copy, so I'm— because I'm going on a business trip, and, uh, that genre, I almost exclusively read three categories. I read sci-fi first, Fantasy second, and crime drama. So I will pick it up for my upcoming trip and I'll have something to read. Listeners, if you like what you hear, please rate the show, share the show, subscribe to the show. If you don't like what you hear, shoot us a message, tell us what you'd like to hear, and I'll get rid of Christophe and replace him. Until then, ta-ta for now.

And that's a wrap for today's episode of The Profitable Creative. Until next time, you money lovers. And don't forget, Profit First for Creatives is live via Amazon.

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