How Do Entrepreneurs Build a Powerful Business Network? | Mike "C-Roc" Ciorrocco

. And then I started to realize the power behind leverage and delegation and systems and process. And I guess I'm a very intelligent guy. I got good grades and went to the good schools and all that, but I was slow at picking that up for some reason, right? And once I picked it up, we grew our operation significantly, had a great group, great culture. And that's how I learned from that point forward to really systematize and delegate.

Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Gaffney, South Carolina. I don't know where that is, but I love the name Gaffney. Thanks for listening. Joining me today is Mike Ciroc of That One Agency. Mike, welcome to the show.

Christian, thanks for having me, man. I'm excited to be here, start the week off strong.

Yes, well, your energy will— is contagious, so I'm sure it will be. So, um, give, give the listeners a, a brief summary of who Mike is and, and why he's here.

Yeah, I'll make it really simple. I'm a a guy that loves helping people and serving and helping them go further faster with the experiences that I've had, the network that I have, which is unbelievable network, and the servant heart that I lead with. And so obviously I've done a lot of business building, entrepreneurship, podcast host, all that stuff, and I have a wonderful family, 22-year marriage. But at the end of the day, the outcome that people get coming from being around me is they go further faster.

I love it. Simple and concise. So how did you come up with this current iteration of That One Agency? What was the impetus for that?

Yeah, I had very high-level people coming to me and pointing out an asset that I didn't realize I had at the time. I had built one of the most amazing networks in the country. Through being a guest on over 1,200 podcasts over the last 5 to 6 years and doing over 1,000 episodes of my own show, which led to speaking opportunities on live stages, being in the green rooms with some people that I've only seen on television before, and just building relationships and serving those relationships. And the network expanded drastically. So when these high-level people— when I say high-level, I'm talking about billion-dollar CEOs, I'm talking about movie producers that have done $200 million in the box office. To top influencers in the health and wellness, biohacking, longevity space. Hey, we need access to your network. And I'm like, okay. And they wanted connections. They wanted to raise capital, possibly. They wanted to get on podcasts. And they kept coming to me. And I'm an intentional guy. I love helping. So I was connecting them. And then when it came down to it, eventually I started realizing that this is an issue that needs to be solved, and there's a business opportunity here. So I got with my partner Todd. We created That One brand and then That One agency, and that has become one of the premier podcast booking firms in North America for accomplished people that have a clear mission.

You said you didn't realize that you had an asset. Talk more about that. I mean, like, is that you didn't realize you had an asset or you hadn't thought about using it in that way?

Good point. So we all heard your network is your net worth. And as I was building this network through the podcast platforms that I've created and guesting, I started thinking to myself, what am I going to do with all these people? Because your network is your net worth. And I started thinking to myself and stressing myself over it. Honestly, I was like, I can't do something with all these people, but I feel bad if I know them, I'm supposed to do something with them or for them.. And so one day, and I pray all the time, all day, every day. And I was in prayer one day and I said, man, Lord, please help me find a way to serve this network and figure something out to do with this network. It's supposed to be my net worth. I don't get it all. I understand it helps sometimes, but, and very clearly in my mind, God spoke to me and said, this network is not for you, man. This network is for other people. And you're supposed to be the catalyst to connect amazing people. To do the mission I have for them. And Christian, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, I was just like, wow, I can't believe I didn't get this before. Like, this is amazing. I got it now. And so from that point forward, I went and I started looking and thinking to myself, okay, these people are coming to me because this is an asset bigger than I thought for them, and they want access to it. Has value. I need to commercialize this in a way so it's not just taking up my time for no reason and taking away from the business focuses that I have. And create something here that can serve a lot of people, provide a lot of value.

So you were intentional about building the asset of your network because that, that you, you understood that that was foundationally what, where your opportunities were going to come from, but you hadn't considered that it had value to others beyond yourself.

Is that Yes. Yes. Occasional connections, introductions, you know, but then it started to become consistent and there was a pattern started, which would mean that's lead flow, right? Right. And then when there's some constant lead flow and there's people that have money to spend and they see this value with this network, this asset, that's a business.

Yeah, I, I find it interesting. Okay, so I want you to go back several iterations ago when you were starting out as an entrepreneur. Um, where did you make the shift to building assets from trading time for money?

All right, so that's, uh, that's a funny story in a way. I've been in sales since 1998. I started in in-home sales., and I would get leads and I would drive all over the place for an hour and a half each way. Vacuum cleaners?

What's that?

Vacuum cleaners? No, it wasn't vacuum cleaners. It was actually water treatment systems for a company called, uh, Rainsoft. And I would go in and test water and then I would show them what to do to fix the water. And, and I was a salesperson and eventually from there I got into real estate and started selling real estate. And then I saw my buddies that were doing the mortgage business and they were making, uh, really good money sitting in one place, not having to show people houses, which I didn't really care for. Right. And so I moved into the mortgage business. So I was a loan officer at the time. And then I would see the people— I was in a boiler room setting, kind of in a, you know, pod farm, cube farm, right? Right. And I saw a lot of the people that were working with me were afraid to confront customers and have tough conversations. So I was doing my own business. And then also I noticed that some people needed a second voice, or they were like, I got this problem with this client or this borrower, and I don't know what to do or say to them. And I'd say, just let me get on the phone. Let me just get it out of the way. So I became very proficient at that, and I moved into management from there. But I was still just a sales guy that wasn't afraid to confront problems and have tough conversations and explain things to people. And then from there, I moved into an operator. I had my own P&L. I had my own branch. We actually scaled to several branches and still operating from a salesperson's perspective versus an operator or a business owner. And so systems and process weren't my thing. I was a guy that did a lot of numbers, you know, reach out, volume, build a pipeline. And training wasn't my forte at the time. And I didn't know any better. And matter of fact, the company that I was working with at the time, Christian, would basically call us lazy as loan officers if we delegated our low-leverage tasks to someone else. And just when all that— later on I found this out— was all the top producers were delegating their low-leverage tasks. That's how you scale a company, right? You leverage time, expertise, systems and process, and network with people. And I didn't get it. I was just like looking up to this guy that was making a lot of money that ran this company. And I don't want to be lazy. I don't want to disappoint him. And that can go back to trying to please a father figure because of my upbringing, right? But as I started to get around people that were successful in business, I started diving in. There's something I don't know. There's something I got to figure out. There's definitely something I'm missing here because I'm not producing as much as these other guys and they don't look like they're grinding it out. Mm-hmm. And then I started to realize the power behind leverage and delegation and systems and process. And I guess I'm a very intelligent guy. I got good grades and went to the good schools and all that, but I was slow at picking that up for some reason. Right. And once I picked it up, we grew our operation significantly, had a great group, great culture. And that's how I learned from that point forward to really systematize and delegate.

Yeah, I think there is this, and I think it shows up a lot for men, and I think it shows up for men of a certain age, I would say over 40. Yeah. Where is the— there is this mantra that you have to work hard to be successful. Right. I was introduced a couple of years ago to a gentleman named Richard Koch— Koch— sorry, I always get the two confused because there's the Koch family from Wichita, Kansas, that's very wealthy. But this is a British gentleman, not related. He's an author and an investor, and he wrote the book that I read was The Star Principle. And it basically, it's a very simple book, but it discusses his method of identifying companies that are worth investing in. And after reading the book, I heard him speak at a Perry Marshall event. And what's fascinating about this man is he works the least amount of any person that I've ever heard. And it's so contrary to my thinking of like that you've got to be working hard and busy hustling, you know, etc. And I'm like, how does he do this? Like, how does he work, you know, 10 hours a week and he makes billions? I don't get it. Well, the thing is, you start to unravel it is he takes the first hour of his day and he goes and he walks his dog and he just thinks. And he, when he comes back from his walk, he's contemplated this. He's got clear— first he determines what's the most important question I need to answer, right? And once he has clarity on that, and only after he has clarity on that, does he come back and he actually does any work. But that's usually only another 1 or 2 hours and then he's done for the day. But, but what it showed me is the power of having clarity around what's the most important thing, because being busy is easy, right? Like you can be busy all day long. People, especially if you like helping others and serving others, there's always people. There's a line out the door saying, can you help me with this? Which is fine. But this idea that having uber clarity on what, what it is that you're actually trying to solve and focusing on that most important question, I'm still striving to get there. But it also doesn't feel right. Like, you know, I should be doing more, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So when I first started to scale the mortgage business, I'd end up on the golf course 3 times a week. And I had— the business was doing better than ever, but I'd be out there, which is a form of networking and working too. I was doing something I loved. I love golf, but I would feel guilty.

Yeah.

Because I have people that I was paying, which is fine. You're paying somebody to do the job. They should do the job. They shouldn't be worried about where you are as long as they have what they need.

Right.

But I felt guilty, like they're working and here I'm out on the golf course doing something I love. So I went through this. It's a nervous system thing. You have to recalibrate your nervous system for the next setup that you're going into, because if you don't, that thing will eat at you and it'll actually self-sabotage you. I mean, it will allow you to self-sabotage because you'll pull back to where you feel that nervous system comfortable in again, right? And so I had to have some conversations and I would get some people that worked with me that would be like, man, you're out golfing again. They'd make comments like that. And I had to have conversations with people to explain to them, are you being paid to do the role that you're expected to do? And, you know, are you happy here? And, or do you have everything you need? You need something else to do your job? Let's talk about it. But as far as what I'm doing, that's not of your concern, right? Yeah. And, and then a lot of times those folks have to get in line or they have to go.

But yeah, what I was going to say is, is there, there's that feeling like that if other people are working hard, I need to be working hard. And hard is relative, like, whatever that means. Is that like time behind a desk? I mean, what does that mean?

You're working a number of hours, right? Labor. I grew up doing masonry work. Okay. Concrete mixing, mud laying, block plaster, stucco. That's hard work. Okay.

In the cold, in the hot.

That to me is hard work. The rest is time. If you're in an office, It could be mentally constraining. I mean, mentally straining. It could be the number of hours you're putting in, and that can take a toll on your body as well. The mental does affect the physical. But yeah, I mean, a lot of times you're not getting the results that you expect and you feel like you got to put more time in, more effort in. And there's times where you have to look at those things, but it's not something to obsess over if you already are doing what you think that you need to be doing. Then sometimes you have to just surrender to the outcome and the timing of things.

Yes. I wrote in my book, Profit First for Creatives, about the Pareto principle, and I've talked about it a lot on this show. And the reality, the hard reality that every listener needs to understand is that most of your work is not productive. Um, oh, in fact, it's some small percentage, say 20%, um, that produces 80% of your results. And because that principle is fractal, fractal, that means that that pattern continues, which means that 20% of 20% is 4%. 4% of your efforts produce half of your results. Yeah, yeah. And, and, and, and it really messes with your head because, again, certain people like myself think that you have to work hard to, uh, be more successful, when in reality you may just need to be doing less.

Yeah. Or more of the right things.

Or more of the right things.

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. It could be a process of elimination for sure.

Yes. Um, one of my favorite books, um, can't remember the author, but it was a Dan Sullivan, uh, uh, series, uh, 10x Is Greater Than 2x. Yep. And have you read this book?

Yep.

Okay, so for those of you who haven't read it, it's a very simple idea in that if you want to double what you're doing, there are many options, there are many alternatives to get there. And it's hard to pick, like, should I do this or should I do that? Because there are several paths that get you to that 2x. When you set your sight on 10x, whatever that is, I mean, however you define it, it doesn't have to be a financial metric. It could just be— well, it could be the amount of time that you're spending. You want to go from 40 to 4 hours, right? Right. But when you start thinking in terms of 10xing the results, usually there's only one op, one path that takes you there. It might be completely radical probably is completely radical and different from what you're doing. But there's only one path forward to 10x, and that's why it's potentially easier, certainly simpler, than trying to navigate what the many options are to go to. Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy, and if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now.

Yeah, I mean, simplification is the key a lot of times. You know, people get stuck in chaos and confusion when there's too many options. And so one of the things I like to focus on is how can I simplify things right now? You know, there's a lot going on and I'm like overloaded or starting to feel stressed. I start to realize, okay, what's the one thing right now that would give me the most impact to get rid of some of this chaos? What's really going on here? What's the one thing that's really going on here? Like, what's the one thing I could have right now or do right now that would just wipe away a lot of the chaos?

Sifu Bruce Lee, he had a statement. So he was trained in Wing Chun kung fu. Strange story. He was half American, half Chinese. And because he was not full-blooded Chinese, Ip Man, his sifu, would not he held back on his instruction. He didn't want him to learn kung fu because he was not full Chinese. Anyway, he came up with his own, uh, he invented his own martial art, which, which came to be known as Jeet Kune Do, which was a combination of Wing Chun and American boxing and fencing. And he combined all of these things But what he started with was the daily takeaway, because anybody that studied kung fu— I haven't studied it, but like just observing it, it is extremely complicated and it takes decades of practice to perfect. And he realized that there was an inherent flaw because it was too complex. And so his whole thing was starting with What can I take away from it to simplify it? It actually started because as he was teaching, he had, you know, a dozen students at a time, and it was like, I can't teach all of these students at the same level, uh, as a one-on-one to teach them the complexity of this. So how can I simplify it? How can I make it simpler? And I think there's just So much wisdom in that, that our inclination is to do more and add, when in reality, most of the time, it's about taking it away.

Yeah, you know, elimination for me, a lot of times I'm assessing, often daily. Most people don't assess, maybe once a quarter, once a year.

Once a year, if at all. This time.

So one of the things for me to simplify and focus on that is daily assessment. You know, what did I do today? Well, actually, I start with my thoughts. Like, what were my thoughts today that I don't need to have anymore? Right? Because that's where it all starts. Your mind is filled with thousands and thousands. A lot of times you're thinking the same thing over and over again, too. So I start my thoughts, and then I look to next. How was my words? You know, how are my conversations? What did I not need to say today? And what can I eliminate there? Then I go to my actions. And then I go to the environment that I'm keeping and the people that I'm around and spending time with or focusing on on a daily basis. So I work for those 4 areas: thoughts, words, actions, environment that I keep. And then I look to eliminate because things are either a liability, Christian, or an asset.

Mm-hmm.

Right. So obviously, when we're talking finances, we want to eliminate liabilities as much as possible and add to the assets. So I do the same thing with my thoughts, words, actions, and the people I keep around me. And I'm constantly assessing that because I need— the quicker you can identify something that's a liability and handle it, the better.

Yes. And you brilliantly said you start with thoughts because that's where everything comes from. Right. And, you know, as I said, Richard Koch— sorry, he starts the day by thinking that there's not— it's not get up and do, it's get up and think. Yeah. And part of that is just what you said. What are the thoughts? What are the beliefs that you're living with that are no longer serving you? One of them could be that you have to work hard to make money. Right. And I'm not sitting here trying to tell you that entrepreneurship is easy. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, you know, the idea that you just get up and do more of the same and do more grinding is going to produce you better results is not where it's at. It's looking at what beliefs you have around money, around business, around relationships that no longer serve you, that show up in your thoughts. And I think that's brilliant advice that you have to reflect on What are you telling yourself? Like, and is that true?

Yeah.

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The other thing is I noticed too is that most people don't share what they're going through right now, the adversity that they're dealing with right now, because they're so concerned what people would think. They're very, very limited on their vulnerability, and then they don't share at all most of the time. But if they do, they share after they've overcome it.

Mm-hmm.

You know, there's a lot of people that I've, I've seen that have in my, in my life that thought everything was great with them. And then, then, then they end their life. Right. You look back and you're like, man, I would have never guessed that guy or that lady, you know, because people don't share. And I think if we can find more spaces where we can share the things that we're going through currently in that moment, you can, you can get a lot of help and you can, you know, save yourself a lot of heartache and stress and and maybe your life even. Absolutely. Help is a topic that's not talked about enough. And I think because most people, again, they're worried about what people think of them. They think they're the only ones going through that situation, that scenario. And they also have a warped sense of what help really means. And the fact that they may have had a situation where somebody tried to help them and they allowed that person in and that person failed or took advantage of them. And right after that, they form a belief that nobody can help me. Everybody's out there to take advantage of me. Or they may have tried to help someone and failed at it, right? And then they made a decision and a belief afterwards that I can't help anyone, right? Why bother?

So I made it worse, right?

So I like to talk about the word help a lot and get conversation started around that. And even ask people like, when's the last time you tried to help someone and you failed? So we can go back and revisit that so that we can have a chance to correct that belief. Or when is somebody— last time somebody tried to help you and they failed or took advantage of you? And then dive into the conversation about that kind of thing to start changing the belief system around that particular incident. And so yeah, I see that a lot. And I have a network, I think, um, I've invited you into it. I'm not sure if you're in there or not, but it's that one network. And I try to facilitate an environment where people can ask for help.

Yes. Because here's the crazy thing is, yes, as entrepreneurs, we tend to isolate ourselves and silo ourselves. And 90% of the problems that you're working on, someone else has already solved. Right. And like, but no one can help you if they don't know that you have the problem. If you're not going to be vulnerable and say, you know, this is what I'm struggling with, this is what I can't figure out, this is where I need help. But no one can, you know, sure, there are bad actors out there. There are people that are going to take advantage of you. That's, that's not the point. The point is, is that no one can help you if they don't know.

Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing with marketing. If you could be the best in the, in the industry that you're in, but if nobody knows, it doesn't matter how good you are. That is correct. So there's a, there's a thing about promoting, uh, your business, but also promoting that you need help, you know, and sharing that in a place where you, you know, and you should identify a place that you can go to do that, um, you know, whether it's family or friends or, or a network, right? And, um, yeah, I mean, you, it's a risky situation for some people, right? Because you, you can have people take advantage of you, but it's just like anything in life, if you take the risk, you're never going to see the fruits.

100%. Well, that's a brilliant segue into That One Agency. So how long have you guys been doing That One?

5 years we've been doing That One. And, okay, you know, when we started it from scratch, and, you know, as we go, we learn, and we're, you know, optimizing as we go, or changing the ideal customer profile as we go. We're optimizing our packages and our offerings and adding value to what we're doing and then creating a community and family around it. So 5 years now we're in.

Okay, I have 2 thoughts that just came up. I'm going to say them so you can remind me of the one that I'll forget. So community is what I want to come back to. Tell me, share with the listeners what, over those 5 years, what was your biggest pain point that turned into a learning opportunity?

Hmm, man, biggest pain point to turn— there's so many lessons I've learned as I've gone through this. The biggest pain point. Oh, well, here's an easy one. So this happened in the mortgage business actually as well. So we got really good at marketing and reach out and getting in touch with people. Prior to having the systems and processes dialed in and the team that could facilitate. So early on in the business, and the same thing happened in the mortgage industry, we got so much influx of people to work with that we couldn't perform what we were promising at first. And so we had to take a step back and say, okay, what are— and by the way, this is important, and it's okay to go through this in business because when this happens, you may not know what you need to build, what you need to optimize. What system you need to put in place, right, or what policies to have until you actually are in the field and experiencing this with a client. And that client will tell you where you're, where you're lacking. Yes. And that allows you to build something to correct that. So, you know, I look back while you're going through it, you're like, oh my gosh, we should be so much better than this. Oh, it's terrible. You know, you're hard on yourself. But when you're building something from scratch, especially, This is opportunity. And so to me, I think that's the biggest learning lesson. It was a pain as you're going through it, but also wrapping your head around the idea that this is a needed thing to go through and you should be grateful for these opportunities, not pissed off that it's happening.

Yeah. And I've made the mistake when you come up with something new and you want to build it, like building it first. Rather than proving that it'll work. Because to your point, you may be building the wrong thing, right? Like, you can't anticipate what you're going to need. So if you spend all your time trying to perfect the process or the deliverable, you're going to more likely than not build the wrong thing.

Yeah, you need to start with some kind of framework, right? You have to have some foundational thing to start with. Let's say the skeleton, right? And then to fill in the meat and the organs and the flesh later as you go. That's the key. But you have to start with that framework and then launch it because the market will tell you everything you need to know if you get in front of enough people. And so that's what we did. I was in the tech space before. We put out an MVP, right, to get an idea of the market acceptance and adoptability and get thoughts, and then we would build from there. And so it's, it's not a fun process all the time. You can make it fun, I guess. Um, it could be frustrating at times, uh, if you have a patience issue, uh, that'll really test your patience, right? But, um, but this is the life we chose.

Yes. And I, I think my experience also is like when you're coming up with something new, um, verbal feedback is not sufficient. Like if you get people that, you know, you're building something and you talk to them, hey, what do you think of this? And they're, oh yeah, that's something I'd use. That's something, right? Until they write a check, I know that's an outdated analogy, until value, until they buy it, you don't have market validation. And, you know, Perry Marshall brilliantly said in one of his newsletters, said, you know, if you've got a new anything that you're trying to sell because you think it'll solve a problem for somebody, give it to them for 50% off. Make it such an outstanding value. And that allows you to prove that someone's actually interested in it as opposed to talking about it. Because I've experienced this. Like, people will tell you, yeah, no, that sounds like a great idea. But when it comes to actually putting money to it, not so much.

Yeah, we always say people will vote with their credit cards.

100%.

You know, people lie. Well, human beings, human beings.

It's not even like they mean to lie. It's like, you know, it sounds good, right? And I like Mike, and so I don't want to disappoint him.

So like, that might be true. But that's like, here's the thing. If they're not going to pay for it. Right. Right. But they say, yeah, I'd do something like that, or that sounds good. Because they don't want to hurt your feelings, or they're just, you know, they don't want to be truthful. Okay, it's a lie. Okay, right. People lie. But what doesn't— what's not a lie is when they pay, right?

That's correct.

You hear people all the time, you'll present something to them, they're like, yeah, yeah, I think I'll go with that package there, and, um, I'll get back to you, or I got to talk to so-and-so, I got to talk to my board, I got to talk to my partner. Uh, but, but in the back of their mind, they're, they're not doing it. They're not ready, you know? And then you'll have people that sign up right away. They tell the truth. Here you go. Or they really truthfully need to speak with someone else. But most of the time when they do these things where they have to think about it or talk to someone else, most of the time people are not telling you the truth. Let's just call it a spade. A spade is a spade because they don't want to give you rejection necessarily, and they want to soften the blow. And they feel like later on when you just don't do it, they're not there in a confrontational situation.

Yeah. And speaking from a sales standpoint, you're a master salesperson. So what I see is when you meet that resistance, you haven't uncovered all of the information, right? They're holding something back and they want to control so much of People don't want to be sold to. They don't want to be perceived that they're being manipulated into a decision that they wouldn't otherwise make. And salespeople do a disservice because a lot of them act that way. They do manipulate people to get what they want. But the reality is, if you want to help them and they want to be helped and there's still resistance, it's about trying to figure out what it is that like, well, maybe it is they just simply can't afford it. Like they don't have the money. Right. But there's something there when they come back and they give you that objection that you don't know yet and you have to figure it out.

Yeah, true. There's always a hidden objection as well that they don't share with you. And that's part of like, you know, getting that from them. Find out what this thing is that they're not sharing with you somehow through conversation.

Yes.

Because you can't help them. Unless you know really what's causing it. But I will also say that over the years, buyers have evolved, and information— the more information you can provide, the better. Because it's not the same as it was when I was doing in-home sales back in the day, where we would say, hey, if you sign up tonight, we'll save you the installation fee, right? And then, and then you, you would handle the objections, knock them off one at a time, and really isolate back to the money.

Mm-hmm.

Other than the money, is there any other problems or things stopping you from signing up tonight? And they would say, well, yeah, this thing. And they would bring up other things. Or, yeah, it's just the money. Okay, well, if it's just the money, let's figure out how we can get this, because you love the product, right? You love the results that it gives you, right? Right. Right. And then— but nowadays it's different. Nowadays, you know, people are so used to going on Amazon or Google searching what they want and then making a decision right there to get it without a person involved.

Yes.

And You know?

No, I mean, adding the person— you raise a very great point. The person now can actually be friction that they don't want.

Yeah. Yeah. And there's so many other— there's so many other things that go on because a salesperson could be under the gun for money. Right. And there's the money motivators— other motivators, I should say. So money motivators, they need to make sales, they made their jobs on the line. Um, maybe they have this really high goal of a certain number of sales, and that's the thing they're focused on. It's very transactional. I think things have— when you deal with a person nowadays, if it's not on Amazon, like if you're going to Amazon to buy something, it's transactional, right? You want something, there's the price, you get it, you get it pretty quickly.

Right.

Uh, but if somebody is dealing with a person, I think it's imperative nowadays that people, all businesses should be thinking about this. How can we make this a transformational experience? Mm-hmm. Right. Transaction. They could just go buy something online that they need. But if we're going to be needing to talk to them, we should be able to figure out a way. And this, this comes to talking more about outcomes versus the price of something or what they're going to get physically from it. More on the outcome. What is the outcome that you're going to receive and what is the cost of not having this outcome?

Yeah, I like the word you use, transformation.

This is the transformation that you're going to receive, which is the transformation from where they are to the outcome. Right. And that's got to be the focus nowadays when you're in person or over on a Zoom or whatever phone call is, how can we transform you into this outcome that you want?

Right. Okay. So that is another brilliant segue. I love how you set these up for us. Into community, because I, I was on Alex Sanfilippo's quarterly podcast webinar recently, and he had a guest on there that had a company he had sold to Mighty Networks, and he had stayed on for employment. And he said, he made the observation that online learning is actually in decline. Like, uh, the, the, the days of setting up, uh, you know, courses and people buying your product, uh, is actually in decline. And they would be in a position to know that, um, their, their pivot is into community where the, uh, individual becomes the curator of the content of the community rather than the producer of the content. Thoughts on that?

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I started a tech company right before AI came out that was called Blueprinted, and it was basically people sharing their, their SOPs with other people of how they achieve something. Yeah, right. Not a course, but just here's the steps, the SOP for accomplishing this. Right. And right as we were getting ready to launch, we started hearing words about AI coming out, which is so dangerous for what we were doing to be successful. And so with AI coming out now, it is a lot of information. You can pretty much tell the AI who to be. You can tell it to be Alex Hormozi and give you the answers based on Alex Hormozi's expertise. Right. You know, and then give me the steps, give me a blueprint for this, and then there's your course. Give me a course on this, a daily thing I can go through each day to learn, and give me the roadmap. It's there now, and it's free. It will maybe be the subscription to a language learning model. So, yeah, the way I was thinking about this as I went forward and building that one and that one network and the Quantum Expansion paid group that we have is how can we AI-proof ourselves? And I think there is actually an AI fatigue that's out there now. People are starting to be fatigued by this and lack connection. Yes, human connection. So that's the thought process that I was going into as I was creating everything that we're doing now, is how can we create connection, transformation? And there's a thing when you hug somebody that kicks in in your body. It's called oxytocin. Right. How can we increase oxytocin production in people? Yes. And so that's the principle that I've leaned into as we're creating everything in that one ecosystem. But yeah, I do believe that. And I'm sure there's a place for courses and people that will have success in the course realm are people that do develop community. They do develop a differentiating factor where people are attracted to them. And they want their stuff.

Yes.

But that's not the majority of course creators. And the ones that are successful are the ones that are doing that and creating community around that course so that there's some kind of a brother or sisterhood or family-like environment where there's, you know, I feel like I belong.

The speaker's example was CrossFit. He said, because anybody that's in CrossFit, you know it because they talk about it. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. And they talk about the transformation, the impact it's had on their life. Like, they're like disciples. And that community, it's not, you know, if you think about curating the community and curating the content, it's not just about, okay, here's your workout of the day, or this is how to do this exercise. The community that is there holding you accountable, encouraging you, you know, sharing the highs and lows. That's, that's what is AI-proof. Um, yeah, you could, you could do an AI coach, but I don't, I don't know that you're getting the same oxytocin from—

no, not at all. Not, not even— not the same, not any, probably, you know. Uh, but then you go through and it's, you know, building community is, is not easy. Right? You go through building something and then you have to create boundaries and structure for the community. And then you have to, as the founder of it, you have to set down your principles of how you're going to move forward and what the outcome you want to create with this is. And people will be attracted initially. And then when they get in, they'll push boundaries. They'll test the boundaries. And as a leader, you have to be, you know, hyper-aware of what's going on and pay attention to those things. People will test authority. Because as a founder, you may not run it like an authoritarian. However, you have some authority. And when people push back against that, how they do it, how they do it, do they do it just to you? Do they do it in front of other people? The other thing is, when I created what I'm creating in our community, I want to help people go further faster. And I made a mistake one time of hearing from someone that was thinking about joining the community. And they said, that further faster thing kind of scares me. I don't know if that's the way— I don't necessarily agree with that. And I thought to myself at first, like, well, they'll come around because they'll see what this is all about. Like, you definitely have goals in mind. We're goal-oriented people generally, and we want to get there. A lot of us don't want to take time, a long time to get there. We want to go further faster.. But it makes some people uncomfortable, Christian. And some people are willing to sit in that uncomfort to get the growth that they really desire, and others aren't. And I should have recognized this with this one individual earlier on than I did because I had to do some cleanup afterwards. And so that's a thing we were asking earlier, pain and a lesson from some pain, growth pains. But yeah, yeah.

Well, that— you're just reiterating the 80/20 because it's— it's a— 80/20 is a principle of human behavior. And like, 80% of the people don't— they may say they want to go further faster, but it's a fantasy. They don't really want to do what's required to do, you know. I mean, it's kind of— I had the Dr. Matthew Cutts on, uh, the program, and, and he was talking about, uh, Contextual Intelligence. And we were talking about the foresight, like looking into the future. And when you have people that talk about the future, "I want this to be different," the distinction, the difference between people that actually achieve what they want is they, they see how they are different in the future, not just the things around them are different in the future, right? Because you can sit there and fantasize about like, I want this house, I want this job, I want whatever. And but it is just a fantasy unless you start to see yourself in the future and how you are different from how you are now.

Yeah. So when we started Quantum Expansion Group, which is our upper chamber of That One Network, The things that we started with was, were, was, who do you want to be? Right? We got to figure out who you want to be, and we have to recalibrate your nervous system to that person, that being. We started talking a lot about nervous system and recalibration and setting that nervous system so that you, when you start having advancements in it, you don't freak out. You know, right? I remember being in the airport in Miami last year,, and the event that I had just gone to was phenomenal. Met so many amazing people, and people were, like, coming in wanting to know what I did and wanted to sign up, and everything was going so good. And I'm in this airport by myself waiting for a plane, and I thought, man, this can't go this good. We're talking about thoughts again, right? It can't be this easy. The shoe is going to drop at some point. These are the thoughts that were coming into my head, right? And that was all nervous system speaking to me because I set out on a vision and it was starting to come into formation. A thought became a thing, and I started to live in that beingness, that thing. But my nervous system didn't recalibrate at the time, even though I talk about this and I know it. Yeah, I didn't practice it enough at that time.

Yeah.

And then so what did I do immediately? I use AI efficiently and use it a lot. I went to the AI, I programmed this AI for this. This particular thing. And I just started talking about the feelings that I was having, and I know they're not true. And help me walk through this. And it helped me recalibrate my nervous system to say, no, that's not necessarily true that the shoe has to drop. Yeah, sure, things are a money game. I mean, a numbers game. There are averages to things. You're going to have some things not go the way you want them to. But just because things are all lined up right now in alignment and you're flowing doesn't necessarily mean it's going to stop anytime soon. Those are thoughts that are coming in that aren't true. They're not even your thoughts, maybe. They could be somebody else's.

Are you familiar with the book The Big Leap?

Uh, yes. I don't remember if I read it or not.

I don't remember the author's name. He's a Stanford psychology professor. Uh, my business coach had me read it early on, and it speaks to exactly what you're saying, is the nervous system— we're hardwired for predictability. And so whenever we get up against the unknown our nervous systems, our subconscious brains start sabotaging us. And it's very real and you can't avoid it. Like, all you can do is recognize that that's where you are and then work through it. But you can't eliminate this response that your body and your brain have to a fear of the unknown.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's how— how much are you aware of it? How much awareness do you have around it? Right? If you're aware, you can do something. If you're not aware and you're just having this experience, you don't know what to do, and then you can spiral. So knowledge is so important in this. This is the first step, is understanding why things happen, what happens. Knowledge. Go seek something. You don't know something because you just never were taught it or never were around it. Knowledge. And then putting that knowledge into action helps you acknowledge the thoughts that are coming in that maybe aren't yours. They're lies. They could be from experience, from your parents, other people around you, your peers, understanding that that's not yours and then handling it as quickly as possible. But a lot of times people don't do that. They don't— they're not aware, so they can't take action on it in a timely fashion. And again, that spiral happens and then digs a hole. And that hole you have to start digging out of once you start becoming aware of it, because you get sick and tired of feeling that way.

Sage advice, Mike. I feel like we could talk for a long time. How do people find That One Agency and learn more?

Yeah, you can go to thatthe1connect.com. Thatthe1connect.com. Or if you want to connect with me or see more of my stuff, Instagram is the best way. It's Mikey Crock, M-I-K-E-Y C-R-O-C. And you can DM me on Instagram if you have any questions or you want to connect. And we're doing a lot of great things, man, helping people go further, faster with podcasting, getting their brands out there, getting— becoming authorities, bringing a network together of amazing people to serve each other. And also a high-level group where we do 4 events per year where we come together in person to get some of that Oxytocin.

I love it. Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a message, tell us what you want, and, uh, we'll get rid of Mike. Until then, ta-ta for now.