How Do You Go From Freelancer to Business Owner? | Cameron King

It wasn't until a few years ago that I decided to sort of take my own business up a notch. And instead of being like a freelancer, kind of moved myself into glorified freelancer, and now I'm sort of repositioning myself as more than just that, but as a studio owner, business owner, and actually pursuing these clients. Um, you know, instead of being a line item, being sort of first, first at the top. So, and getting closer to where, you know, the pot of gold is, so to speak, right?

Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Cranston, Rhode Island. I have visited Providence. I'm assuming Cranston can't be too far away because it's a very small state. But in any case, thank you for listening. Joining me today is Cameron King of King's CoLab. Cameron, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Christian Brim.

Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about King's CoLab. What is it that you do?

What is it that I do? Well, I can give you sort of the long history and the short history.

Um, let's start with the short.

Okay, so essentially nowadays I would say my primary, um, you know, sort of, um, my primary industry that I work in is in political and advocacy work. So I do a lot of political work, a lot of advocacy work, and that is probably the bulk of my, uh, of our income that comes in here. And then of course, along the way, I've been doing this for almost 20 years. I get random, random projects as well. But as far as like, you know, a target industry, that is probably the target industry right now. And that's sort of the, the sort of the niche that I've, I've fallen into and, and have become very good at. And I started getting a lot of callbacks, so I decided to go ahead and just go all in on it.

So, and so when you say political advocacy, you're working with promoting candidates.

Yeah, essentially on the creative and media side of things. Yeah, we do a lot of the, um, ads and strategy when it comes to anything really digital. And, uh, our— say our primary focus is video. So we do a lot of video, a lot of video ads, static ads too, but primarily on the video and motion design side of things.

That's interesting. I want to dig into that. Um, do you know Chris Wilson? By any chance, he's what you'd loosely call a pollster.

Okay.

Been, been around a long time. Okay. So how did you get into political advocacy? That's, that seems an odd thing to niche to.

Well, I mean, I've been, like I said, I've been in the industry in some capacity in creative since I graduated college in 2006. Cut my teeth in Washington, D.C. Like I'm from, I live in Louisiana now. Moved back in, back in the day, 20 years ago, you know, to get a job in this industry, you had to actually move to a town that could support, could support your industry. And in, in Louisiana, there wasn't much of a video market other than working at a local news station or something like that, right?

You could do James, work with James Carville. I mean, he is always entertaining.

Well, this is before, this is like when I was in my 20s, man. So I just wanted to I just wanted to play with cameras and, and edit videos, you know what I mean? So I was young and dumb and didn't know anything about, you know, business side of things. Uh, I just wanted to— and back in the day, you know, to have an editing system would cost you at least $20 grand, right? So, um, and then— but nowadays you can do it on your phone, so— but that's another, that's another thing. So, um, so yeah, so I went to Washington, DC and just, you know, started doing work in government, you know, doing communications there. And then, uh, eventually kind of just went freelance up there and fell into, you know, a lot of the work that comes around up there is political work. So a lot of your consultants are up there and your, and your houses up there. This is like sort of the era, the pinnacle era of the boutique post house. And so there was tons of post houses up there, and I just kind of freelanced and hopped around from, from post house to post house during the political season. And that's kind of what I just fell into. I didn't want to get into it, it just kind of happened because I I was young and dumb enough to say yes to everything. And, um, yeah, and eventually just kind of got into it and always just kind of had the same contacts probably since 2010 and kind of just hopped around from the same people who just wanted to rehire me or rehire me every couple years. And, uh, I did it because the money was good, but I didn't really think too much about it other than like, all right, this is some money every couple years, I'll do it. And then do brand work on the, on the off, off years too, because I've done other brand work as well for other major brands along the journey. And then it wasn't until a few years ago that I decided to sort of take my own business up a notch. And instead of being like a freelancer, kind of moved myself into glorified freelancer, and now I'm sort of repositioning myself as more than just that, but as a studio owner, business owner, and actually pursuing these clients, um, you know, instead of being a line item, being sort of first, first at the top. So, um, and getting closer to where, you know, the pot of gold is, so to speak, right? Um, and, um, yeah, so just kind of just since I've been doing it for so long, I've just gotten really good at it. What I could— what would take me 2 days in 2010 can take me 2 hours now. You just become efficient and become fast, and you know what works, and you can speak the lingo, and it just made sense, right? So a lot of people talk about, you know, picking a niche. Sometimes the niche just picks you, you know, and that's kind of what happened.

Yeah, I, I— you said something there I think shouldn't be glossed over, um, closer to the pot of gold. Uh, I, I think the closer you are to the end result, the outcome that is desired by whoever's paying you, uh, the more money you can make, right? Uh, and, and, you know, that, that, that paradigm of, uh, where that— what, what that rainbow, if we're going to continue that analogy, uh, is— has shifted because of technology, for sure. Uh, some middlemen, so to speak, have gone away, and so it's kind of forced you to be closer to, uh, the ultimate solution to continue to be relevant and, and to make money. Um, I, I want to ask this question. You're in an interesting industry, or your target market, in that, uh, they have an unusual sales cycle. Yeah, politics runs on a 2-year cycle, at least at the federal level. Um, how do you manage that where there are like really busy seasons and then like really slow seasons, which is, which is not the normal. Like, you might be a wedding photographer and you've got a season within the year, but yours is like spans multi-years. How do you, how do you handle that as a business owner?

I'm still figuring that out, but, uh, there is sort of this saying, um, in our industry that if you can break even on the off year then you're actually a healthy business. So I, before I actually jumped into this sort of head-on a few years ago, I was in a lot of other things that sort of shifted as well in the past, I would say, 5 years. Within the past 3 to 5 years, things have really shifted as far as marketing dollars go. Um, 5 years ago, you know, the off years were filled with brand work, and a lot of that money has moved towards, you know, influencers and other just things, right? It's moved to other parts of the industry, which, which is fine. That's sort of the natural way things go. So, you know, right now it takes a bit of planning. So what I know I'm going to make this year, I need to hold on to some of it for next year. So I might make double or triple what I'd make in the off year, and I know to hold some of that back, right? Right. But also fill the gaps. Like I said, I, I still take on other work that might either be word of mouth or, or, or referred to me from someone else, and it might have nothing to do with politics. It might just be like, hey, my company needs a brand video, or we need some instructional how-to videos on how to train people, or it could just be totally random, right? And that's just from knowing people for a long time.

Yeah, that poses an interesting problem. Because if you're going to get traction in a completely different segment, and you're not doing it for 2 years at a time or a year at a time, because you're, you know, drinking through a fire hose with the political season, having something that was— you can come back to where the pipeline is not going to be completely dry. That seemed like a a difficult challenge.

Yeah, yeah. And it's something that I'm, uh, I'm working on for sure. Like, I still, like, during the off years, we'll still go to— I'll still go to conferences and stuff like that in the political market just to keep, you know, keep good company or whatever. Um, but yeah, during the off year, still trying to figure that out. Like I said, some, some things of— and luckily, you know, God has provided opportunities in between the two, uh, in between the cycles, which is nice. But You know, um, what do I focus on in between those years? Uh, you know, at least I'm— I make enough and get busy enough on the on years to where it has afforded me the luxury of trying to figure that out. Like right now I'm playing around with— there's a local company here in town that I've been doing some other things for, not necessarily video work, but just some general marketing in general. And it's a smaller company, probably like lower 7 figures, but like, how can we help them go to the next level? So just like kind of doing experiments like that and seeing what I can do. Um, whether it takes me anywhere else, I don't know. We'll kind of figure that out as it goes along, but that's kind of— I'm kind of leaving myself open to that. Yeah, in the off years.

I'm wondering, just as a thought exercise, is there anything that these— and, and I'm assuming that you're getting paid by the candidates for the most part, not by parties or, or PACs or things like that?

Or it just— it really depends. Um, it's all over the place. A lot of times it is— a lot of times it is PACs. Um, sometimes I work through agencies, sometimes I work— it's, it's kind of all over the place depending on— because it's a very much a relationship game. Um, so, um, okay. Yeah, you know what I mean? You really don't like these sort of like just in a weird way, it's kind of what do you call it, the game behind the game, so to speak, right?

Yeah, I guess where I was going with that is like your, your candidates don't exist necessarily in the off years, or maybe they do, but they're not spending money. No. And I'm just wondering if there's something, some problem that you can help them solve during those, uh, times when they're not spending money. Um, I don't know. I mean, I, I'm not familiar with the political money scape. I know there is a lot of money, uh, but I, I'm just curious if you, if you have any thoughts about that? Like if there is a problem for the same customer that you could solve for them in those off years that could sustain you. Anything come to mind?

Yeah, a few things. Well, one thing in particular, and that is just, I think of— don't quote me. I mean, I hope I'm not wrong. Is it FDR, I believe? Who did the fireside chats?

That was FDR.

Okay. Yeah. Um, just to make sure I wasn't wrong, but yeah, so something equivalent to that, right? Because a lot of these guys, they get hired and yeah, they might be on the news, local news or whatever, or you'll see a press release or something. But what— and some, some of these candidates are doing a good job of it. Um, having like, you know, they'll pop up on TikTok once or twice a week, just kind of update people. Or, um, it's, it's kind of a— it's a hard sell depending on who we're talking about? Because if I'm honest, like, some of these folks are not made for TV. They're not— I mean, the ones that are made for TV are the same ones you see all the time, you know what I mean? Right, right. There's still, you know, 300 other ones you don't see that much. Um, so, um, yeah, so it's kind of like, do they want to be finicking or messing with, you know, a social media strategy in their off years if their personality doesn't really you know, adhere to it.

But here's my thought on that, is that, you know, if I'm a politician and I have aspirations to, you know, go further, a lot of that is about your popularity, your name recognition, you know, people knowing who you are, what you're about. It would make more sense to me as a person, that I would, I would do that continuously rather intermittently for a couple of reasons. One, it's cheaper to, to, to be consistent and do it when media buys aren't maxed out by, you know, the bandwidth of an election. But also from a clarity standpoint, because I think when you get into those cycles, you've got to be putting out a certain type of content to even be noticed. It kind of lends itself to the extreme or the short snippet, or like, as opposed to like, a long-form content, a podcast even, right? Like where you, you, you are building up your brand as a politician. And, and like this, this is long-form content, who I am, not just soundbites for, you know, somebody's TikTok reel. I don't know. That's just kind of my thoughts on it. Unsolicited, but there you have them.

Yeah, yeah, no, no, I agree. Right? And, um, yeah, no, I, I agree. Yes, I don't know how else to say it, but I agree. But again, I have my sort of like, um, other thoughts on, on my hot takes, so to speak, on, on things like social media. I'm not the most active person and stuff like that, but, you know, um, I don't want to get all into that, but you know, why not? Let's hear it. All right, well, you know, well, some hot takes basically are that— or maybe it's just devil advocate, I don't know what it is— but, you know, we're becoming so saturated right now, and then you got things like AI slop and, you know, all the gurus and all the stuff like that. And I don't know, man, I just have my, um, hesitations, but also I also feel like we're being fed something that— I'm not saying it might not work for politicians because politicians are on a different stratosphere, um, of like, you know, name recognition and stuff. But I don't know, I just think, I just think most people are just tired of, tired of it all, you know what I mean?

So, well, yeah, I mean, I guess what I'm, I'm saying is like, okay, you, you do a poll and they've done these polls of like negative ads. Nobody likes them. Well, then why do they keep doing them? Well, because they work, right? But I would say that if a politician were more consistent about building their brand and communicating their message outside of campaign ads during election season, it would tone a lot of that down because it's like, you already know who I am because I've been talking about it for the last 2 years and I've been every place and I've been saying those things. But I don't even think— I don't know if politicians from a political standpoint even think in those terms. Like they're only focused on the election cycle.

No, I agree, vast majority of them are, or even their packs too, right? Yeah, no, you're— I mean, I think you're kind of preaching to the choir, and I think we'll see, we'll see how it goes. I mean, some of them, the more sophisticated ones— or not sophisticated, that's the wrong word— but just forward-thinking ones are probably are thinking in those terms. Like you have, you know, Momdani this year who was big in social media. I'm sure he'll stay that way. Um, but yeah, we'll, uh We'll see.

Well, he might be an interesting case. I don't know a lot about him, not being from New York City and not really paying attention to New York politics. But, you know, from the outsider's perspective is like, where did this guy come from? Like, he just had this grassroots. And I would think kind of speaking to what you said, that people are sick of they're sick of the soundbites. They're sick of the negativity, the polarization, the lack of a middle ground. Like, it's just this extreme rhetoric from both sides, even to the point where, like, currently they're talking about passing the SAFE Act in Congress. And if you look at it just, you know, I don't care what side of the aisle you're on or what you're wanting to have happen with the legislation. If you look at the legislation itself and the popularity with the people, just looking at the polling data, it should be a no-brainer. Like, there's nobody— like, I think like 80% of the polling is in favor of this type of election integrity. But then you get Chuck Schumer talking about it being Jim Crow 2.0, and it's like, okay, no one buys that, right? Like, I mean, maybe there are some extreme, you know, elements that— and that's who he's messaging to. But it's this strange paradigm of like, you know, what you're saying is a complete cognitive disconnect to what everybody else is thinking and saying. It just— I mean, that's just an example that comes to mind. Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now.

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's just old school messaging right, right there. So I mean, I, I don't know, I don't want to— I don't really know the strategy behind all of that, but, um But I agree. Yeah, I don't know where we're going with that. Sorry, I kind of got lost in thought.

I kind of veered off on a strange political tangent and a State of the Union kind of thing. I apologize. We can drive back to the purpose of the show.

Hey creatives, Delaina Ely here. I have a question for you. If you could pay yourself more, why aren't you doing it? For real. S corp is an option for you, the creative entrepreneur, to move your business to the next level, to pay yourself more, and to cut your tax savings down. Yeah, less money for the IRS. We want that, right? So why haven't you done it yet? What's going on? The reality is you probably have 50,000 questions in your brain. You don't know which way is up and down. And you're still too busy to do all those things plus also create, right? Well, the good thing for you is that Core Group is actually the place to be to get that S-corp election rolling. Yeah, we have an assessment. Let's see if you qualify. Come chat with me. Core Group, turning passion into profit.

So when you, uh, started your business, really, really relaunched it, went from freelancer to, you know, building a business. What was that mind shift like? What was the thing that changed for you?

Oh man, that is something. It's still, it's still, because I still find myself falling back into that mindset too of freelancer, right? And depending on who the client is, sometimes I will take on certain types of project work or whatever. If I have a good, if I have a strong relationship with them or whatever, I'm like, yeah, sure, if you're in a pinch, let's, let's, let's work something out. But really, it's just knowing how to position your own mind and your own sort of way that you talk about yourself is probably the hardest thing. So right now I'm trying to focus more, and you mentioned this earlier, more on the outcomes, right? More on like what I can actually do to help the business versus like, hey, I can make this pretty thing. And I guess that helps your business. I don't know.

You know, no, I absolutely think it does.

Absolutely. I'm just saying like, that's how I'm thinking in my own head. Like, instead of getting out of this, like, yeah, I can make pretty things and make them look awesome, you know, which is kind of like how I used to talk. Because I was talking to other producers and other movie, you know, other video people. Yeah, I can— I'll make it look awesome, man, you know, we'll make it look great. Whereas now I'm like, but they don't necessarily care. And, and also, we're in a world now where making things look awesome is not, is not the end goal, because lots of things look awesome and we've become sort of dull to it. And, um, what actually is going to be effective and what actually is going to move the needle, um, when it comes to politics and, you know, in business too, like when you just go the business route, like what kind of outcomes can I get you to do. Um, so for this other one client I'm working for right now, like, how can we— you know, they, they're in such a small— just kind of like, not, not politics as much, but this is, um, this other client I'm working for where we're trying to like— they only need— they're, they're, they're a B2B client. They only need, you know, 10 to 20 contracts a year or whatever to sustain themselves. So they only need 10 or 20 people in their to influence 220 people, decision makers. So how do we market in a way that I can equip their sales team or their CEO or whatever to make them look like the no-brainer, you know? So I'm not directly affecting a sale. I'm not, I'm not getting somebody to go to a button and press buy. I'm saying I'm building the trust that, you know, so that whenever you get on the phone call with them, they'll, you know, won't have to ask as many questions. They won't have to, you know, that the trust will already kind of be there, you know, at least, at least up to 50% or whatever that is, or arbitrary number in there in the, in the buyer's own mind.

So, okay, so, so that, that's a partial answer to my question. I guess what I'm, I'm really asking is How— why did you make that shift from freelancer to business owner? What, what instigated that?

What instigated that? Uh, oh, okay, okay. I can get a little deep with you if you want me to. Please do. Um, so I am— I'm 42. Um, I moved back to Louisiana in 2017, so about 9 years ago. And the reason why we moved back is because, um, my father passed away. So I was 33 years old, my father passed away, and, um, I started— as I started, you know, and that's when I kind of went full-on freelance, like I'm working on my own, I'm moving back to Louisiana to be closer to home, uh, and moved away from the East Coast, came back over here. And then, um, you know, I got a few years into it and I was like, I'm almost 40, and my father passed away when he was 57. And I was like, I'm only like 15 years away from that, right? So I got to figure something out. And plus, you know, there's this other side of me was like, what I'm doing, or what I was doing at the time in my mid-30s, I'm like, I can't see myself doing that at the age of 50. Like, not that it's hard work, but that it's just like, you know, it's not like backbreaking hard labor, but it's like I don't know, I just feel like I needed to evolve, right? So like, like, what do I always want to be this sort of executioner until, you know, I'm— can retire? And is that even realistic? Because I mean, let's face it, when you get— when you're in the creative business, it can be a young person's game, you know, at least certain parts of it, right? So especially like the, the creation The creative side, the execution side of things is usually a younger person's game. And as you get older, it's more strategy, relationships, boring business stuff. But I mean, it's just kind of the way it is. And I just kind of felt like it was the time to do that.

That's an interesting turn of phrase you used, boring business stuff. Um, did— is that how you perceived it when you were—

that's how I perceived it. Yeah, probably in my 20s and 30s. Yeah, like, you know, like I was— I grew up in the '90s, you know, I was rock and roll, like screw the man, suit and tie, no way, you know, like, you know, right. Um, so, you know, uh, and I was very much like raised in a blue-collar family, so we're always like you know, yuppies and all this stuff. Um, so, but I've actually— I mean, I, I, I love it now. I mean, I'm, I'm highly more interested in the boring business stuff now than I am the creative stuff, because creative stuff has become more like a second language to me. I can do it in my sleep. Like, I can run these programs like nothing. So I'm like, what? So the business side of things has become the new challenge. But, um, to to answer your question, yeah, in my 20s and 30s, that's, you know, early 30s, that's kind of how I saw it, right? Um, management's the evil person, and but, you know, now that I own my business, I know better now.

So yeah, I think a lot of creatives, uh, struggle with that marrying of creativity and profit. And, you know, writing my book and interviewing and even reflecting myself, it was— there was some interesting insights that came from it. And one of them, and that's the subtitle of my book, is redefining the creative money paradigm, because I think creatives start out in that space. Not everybody, but a lot of them think that creativity is like this pure art that somehow money sullies it, that it makes it not real. Like you said, selling out to the man. I mean, like, that's, that's, that's a mindset that I think doesn't serve creatives long term. Because if, if you want to sustain your craft, you have to make money at it. If you want to do the things you're passionate about, you have to have a way to fund it.

Yeah.

And that eventually leads you to where you are, which is I got to do that boring business stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then, you know, I also have 4 kids, so like that kind of helps.

They ruin your life. I don't know if you figured that out yet, but yes, kids ruin your life.

Yes. So, I mean, I still try to do passion projects. I don't do as many these days as I did in my 20s and 30s, but You know, I've actually grown to really like the commercial side of things, right? So, um, what—

I guess, I guess that's really kind of the crux of my question is what changed for you? Like, what, what, what— I, I understand that that mindset changed, but why? What, what flipped the switch? You said your father, and, and it was maybe kind of existential of like your own mortality of like Is this what I want to be doing with the rest of my life? Yeah.

Uh, yeah. So yeah, to complete that thought, I think it was more legacy building, right? So it's like, what can I create? Um, not to necessarily leave something for my kids, right? Like, um, but if they wanted to, fine. Um, but you know, to build a business as sort of an— as this sort of asset, right? Instead of just freelancer, tree grows, then tree dies. Like, right, what can I grow? How can the tree keep going without me, right? Yeah. Um, and that's obviously, I mean, gonna be a long, slow process, which is— I'm— I still battle with from time to time in my own mind. Like, Cameron, you'll only be doing this for a few years, it's okay, you know. Um, but that's, that's the big dream idea, is just kind of build this thing that goes beyond me, you know, a little bit. Um, but like I said, or there's two coins of that, two sides of that. And I'll just kind of, I'll kind of let life take me whatever direction it takes me. Um, I'm letting that part go, but the idea is either build something like that or make enough money to where, like, if I am in my 50s, 55, whatever, I can just shut the whole thing off and not have to sweat any money for the rest of my life. You know what I mean? Or whatever that number is, like, I'll just know and be like, I can either keep this going because it's really fun or not, you know, and just chill.

I had a guest on recently who does— see if I define it correctly— heritage and legacy documentaries.

Okay. Yep.

And he was talking about legacy. He had a, he had a fascinating story. It actually gave me chills when he told me about like what, what got him to that point. But the definition of legacy and what that really is, at least from his perspective, was not the traditional things that we think of, of like a financial legacy or even a name legacy, because the reality is 3 generations from now, even in your own family, no one is going to know who you are. Yep. And even if they do know your name, they don't know anything about you. Mm-hmm. That legacy to him was ultimately how we impact others. And how I would tie that in, because I agree with that. I agree. Ultimately, I think that is our legacy, that that's the, the eternal legacy, if you will, is what impact we've made on others. But from a business standpoint, I think the way I marry those two thoughts is how the business can allow you to impact more people. Yeah. Or people more impactfully or more effectively. Um, what are your, what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, I, I agree. Uh, I'm trying to think, and you have to forgive my sort of Uh, what do you call it? Just my train of thought can sort of go everywhere.

Oh dude, we're all neurodivergent in the entrepreneur community, especially these days, right? No, we understand.

So, uh, I'm like, oh yeah, he did ask that, I forgot. Yeah, okay, let me get— come back around to that. Um, but you know, and I actually just wrote this down in my journal this morning, it was to like, um, you know, I would like to get to a point where I make enough money yearly where like it would be no problem to give away half of it. Is that, is that, you know what I mean? Like, because that's kind of like, um, I've always had that sort of dream in my sort of spirit. That was even when I was my 20s, when I first started making decent money and I first started like giving to my church and, and all this stuff. I'm like, what, how cool would it be to get to a point where, you know, I could just do that because I think I have been sort of blessed, especially as a creative, to make pretty good money, like, and then be able to like write a, you know, a pretty good check at the end of the year for a certain cause without even hesitating, and like being able to save and stuff like that. Because we, we've done things in our lives to eliminate debt and to do all this sort of you know, right things financially. Um, so what does that look like? And then the last few years I've kind of been in a sort of, um, especially like when I told myself I was going to build this business up and we had a couple more kids. So I've kind of a little bit been more in a scarcity mindset when it comes to, to money. Uh, I know it's not necessarily always healthy, but part of me is like, all right, I gotta, you know, hang on to this just during this season. But I do want to get back to that point again where like we can give more freely and have that, just have that. I mean, it's just cool. It's cool to be able to just give away things and have that sort of light in spirit when it comes to money, right? So yeah, so that was sort of the one thing I just wrote. I wrote that down just this morning. So I think that I have to remind myself that that is probably the bigger goal, right? The business is great and But what is it actually fueling? Is fueling, you know, first of all, a lifestyle that— I mean, it's already fueling a good lifestyle. Like, I don't work that much, you know, compared to a lot of people who make as much as I do. I don't stress, you know, I don't have to go to an office. This is my office. It's at my house. I get to see my kids all throughout the day. It's great.

Right.

But at what point, um, you know, I'm still figuring that out and I'm still young enough, but, uh, will that be— I forgot where I was going with that, but essentially like, well, the ultimate goal being like, all right, we've built up what we need to build up for us. Let's start giving the rest away. And, um, that is the most— the more legacy and impact stuff is, um, the ultimate goal.

Yeah, two thoughts came to mind as you were saying that. One is, I think as Christians—I'm assuming you are, maybe just speaking for myself—but for Christians, there is this strange paradigm that I think is more tradition than Scripture about money, where, you know, greed is frowned upon. And so like, it's easy for a creative entrepreneur who has that belief to look at profit in a negative way. But Jesus famously said, "It is the love of money that is the root of all sorts of evil." It is not money itself. And I think that's an important distinction because what do you put your faith in? Do you put your faith in the money, or do you put your faith in God that provides the money? The second thing is— so that struggle is real, and I've struggled with it myself. The second thing was one of my colleagues, who is also a disciple, said God had told him, "I've only given you— I've given you all the money you can handle." And I think that's also an interesting thought because I think, you know, money I think this is true as a spiritual truth and a secular truth, that money just amplifies your personality, amplifies the characteristics that are already there. And so an example would be a lottery winner does not stay wealthy because they have a poor mindset, right? They don't change because they got a lump sum of money, right? Or you see these people that are really rich and they're assholes. Well, they were always an asshole. The money just allowed that to come out more, right? Yeah. Is this idea that, you know, potentially God does keep us from being more wealthy because we aren't able to handle it and because of who we are, right? Like, if we had more money, we'd not use it correctly. Not that God doesn't want us to be prosperous. It's more about our character. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Yeah, no, yeah, that's— I can see that for sure. I mean, I agree with it. Yeah. And it's interesting, I'm thinking about it in terms of sort of my sort of area or, or my own life, right? And yeah, I mean, you're making me reflect right now, inner, uh, in my own way, um, about that. So it's, it's a strange tension, you know what I mean?

Yes. No, it is, because the desire is there, right?

So there's this desire to, to get bigger, and, you know, and I say Oh, you know, we can make promises, you know, to ourselves and to God, like, oh, if you give me more money, I'm gonna— I'll give it all away, right? I'll give it all away. And then as soon as you get that money, you, you figure out how to spend it, or you figure out, you know, lifestyle inflation or whatever that looks like for you, right? Um, yeah, that's— it's a strange thing. Okay, we're getting a little like woo-woo here, but like, because it's funny because last year I didn't make as— was probably my last year was probably my— I wouldn't say— I think it was worst year. I mean, it was still a good year. It was still— I mean, by some other people's standards, it was still a decent year. Um, but it was probably like, as far as like what I made, it was probably my lowest year since I went on my own. Um, but the year before that was the best year I've ever done. So when from like the best year to the worst year. And this year is already on par to being sort of a pretty good year, better than last year. So that's nice because it's an on year, right? Mm-hmm. But it is interesting that, you know, I have found myself last couple of years being a little bit more— I wouldn't say stupid with money, but just definitely a lot more— what is it? What's— I'm trying to think of the word— liberal with money, I guess, you know, like, yeah, sure, you know. And then, but then I found myself after last year, I think, look at the numbers last year, I need to tighten up. And now that I've tightened up, more money's coming in. It's like, now that I'm being more responsible, uh, yeah, it's like God's saying, here you go, here's some, here's some here's things you can handle. I don't know what to say. I don't know. I can draw conclusions all day long, right? But, and just, but I'm just kind of trusting, you know, it's, it's, I don't know. I mean, it's a lot, it's a little bit of faith and it's, it's that tension for sure. But I, I, I usually what happens is, and I, as a human, I tend to forget this. If I'm on top of my game, like as far as like doing the things I need to be done that I've been entrusted with, doing a good job, managing my money, taking care of myself, taking care of my family, and stick to those sort of basic things and doing well at them and not just skimming by them, being intentional with them, the other stuff just, just happened. It just seems to come easier. And, um, when I don't, if I go off the rails, if I'm like, you know, not taking care of myself, not looking at my budget, you know, just going out and spending things, and that's whenever those things don't come as easily, or I get fearful, and then like I'm not making as much money. And so anyway, that's kind of— no, is that track? I mean, is that—

no, 100%. No, that, that really resonates with me. And, and one of the things that I've, I've had to ask myself, you know, I've been doing this for 29 years of like, why do you want to grow? Like, what's the intent behind it? And if it is just— to me, I've always said to myself, well, it's not about the money. That's just the scorecard, right? That's the way entrepreneurs keep score, is dollars. But really sitting with the question of like, What would that mean? Like, what, you know, you go back to the lottery winner. If, if you won the lottery and had $50 million, what would change? And, and being real clear on that, I think, helps me align that and, and get clear with it because I can say, well, nothing would change. Like, you know, I'd still do what I do. But is that true? I don't know. Um, I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, to me it just kind of— it just would depend on the amount, I guess, you know. Um, let's say $50 million.

That's, that's a substantial sum to most everybody. Yeah, you know, how— if you had— that's, that's the reflective question. We'll leave the audience with. What would you do differently? Would you be any different?

I don't know if I would be any different, but I definitely would do differently. We live a little bit more— sort of background about me— we live out in the middle of nowhere. Like, not in the middle of nowhere. We live out in the country. We have 5 acres. To a lot of people, it is the middle of nowhere, but we have neighbors and stuff. Uh, it's not like that kind of middle of nowhere.

Um, I've been to Nowhere, Louisiana, and there are places where there is nothing.

Oh yeah, and you could be buried and nobody ever find you. Yeah, there's—

tie your ass to a tree stump and the gators will do the rest.

Yes, exactly. Um, so I would, uh, I would probably not be doing what I'm doing if I had this much money. Probably not be doing what I'm doing right now, okay, career-wise. Um, just because I like what I do and I'm fortunate enough to what I do. Um, but I don't think I would want to do it anymore. Just completely fair, because like, I mean, right now I'm kind of just in it, for the provision of it, right? Fair enough. I'm good at it. Yeah. Just like, you know, people who do other, like, you know, I don't know. I don't have any good examples, but plumber, a man, yeah. Or somebody else, like you just, you get, you do it for long enough and you just get really good at it and you just, it's, it's a living and I'm glad I get to do it. But at the end of the day, like if I, if someone provided me something else that gave me all my needs and stuff, I'd probably— yeah, I'd be okay with that. Um, you know, so like I said, I don't know if I would be a different person, but I definitely do some different things. I'd stick, you know, probably 10 of that in, in some IRA and just live off that the rest of my life. And then, um, you know, do whatever else with the other things. And, you know, whether that's send my kids through college or, or give it away like I mentioned earlier, or whatever, just kind of figure that out. But, um, yeah, I'd probably just put just enough in there for us to, to live comfortably, and then the rest would go wherever else it needed to go.

Um, so yeah, yeah, it's an interesting reflective question because it does— I mean, if you really sit with it for a second, because to me you can also transition that question into, well, what's keeping you from having $50 million? Like, if, if this is truly what you would do if this were your highest and best purpose, why haven't you made that happen? Not to say that you should. It's just an interesting flip of the question. Yeah, from a reflective standpoint. And, and I think it helps you get in line with what we discussed of like, what is the role of money in your life?

Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, why aren't you doing— like, the question is, why aren't you doing that now, or whatever? So, right. And that was kind of the reason for starting sort of the business side instead of just the freelancing, right? So, um, I can make, you know, what I could have charged, uh, you know, an hourly rate or a day rate 4 years ago, I can charge a project rate or fee and make 5 or 10 times more just by, you know, repositioning that.

Um, yeah, so, um, once you figure it out and, and make that $50 million, we'll have you back on the show and you can, you can tell us the story. Uh, in the meantime, how do people find out more about Cameron King and King's Collab?

You can go to kingscollab.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, just @camthemanking. Um, not quite as active as I used to be on those platforms, but, um, and I'm also pretty easy to get a hold of if you're gonna shoot me an email, cam@kingscollab.com. Yeah, so I'm generally— I like meeting people and, and stuff. I'm very much a relationship-based type person. Try to, uh, live in, in that, in that realm as much as possible. Perfect.

Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, hit that little message button, shoot us a text, and tell us what you'd like to hear, and I'll get rid of Cameron. Until next time, ta-ta for now.