How Do You Use Storytelling to Grow a Creative Business? | Annie Figenshu

Given the overall idea of this podcast itself, that's a big part of how I spend almost every day. So let me explain. Is I think content is a big part of it. What has really helped me, especially in the last year, and it's worked so well that I'm continuing it into 2026, is making sure that more often than not, so around 3 days a week in a work week, that I will do each of these 3 things, or I will spend at least a half hour's time in these 3 areas.

Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Hollis— Hollisburg, Pennsylvania. If I can get that out. I don't— I mean, that sounds like a lovely place, Holidaysburg. Uh-huh. Yeah, um, strange name. I'd hate to have to spell it as a kindergartner. In any case, thank you for listening. Uh, our guest today is Annie Figginchew of Downstage Media. Annie, welcome to the show.

Christian, thank you so much, and I want to also shout out the listener in Holidaysburg, Pennsylvania.

Yeah, I mean, I kind of envision they're in a coffee shop somewhere, and I don't know what episode they listen to, what the appetites are in Hollidaysburg, Pennsylvania. I don't know. I know what it is. I did have a German photographer on, Jonathan Schleichberg, and that was probably who they listened to because, you know, Sure. Yeah, that's just my guess. All right, shut me up and give the audience your CV. Tell us, tell us who you are, what you've done, because I— you told me a little in the green room and now I want to share.

Sure. Well, I started the company Downstage Media, and that I started because I know a lot of people are creating so much content and they spend a lot of time making it and they don't know whether or not it's actually working for them. So I I sit down, I give them some strategy, we talk through it, and we figure out how they can actually get their content to move the needle on their business. But I kind of came at that from a different direction. So I got into— Downstage. Right, exactly. Not upstage, but downstage, right. So downstage, if you are a theater nerd, then you know that is when you are closest to the audience. So I started Downstage Media— well, I started marketing. I had been performing. So I had been an improv comic in New York City. I would do upwards of 5 shows a week with companies like Chicago City Limits and Broadway's Next Hit Musical. And we would make up songs on the spot, and we would make up shows on the spot. One thing that I always found really problematic was that we had one of the, one of the companies that I worked for had the policy where if there was more people on stage than in the audience, they would cancel the show. And we had 5 people on stage. Okay. And the amount of times the show got canceled, which means that there was less than 5 people in the audience.

Are we including waitstaff?

Thank you. Those are the kinds of questions that they would ask. And I was like, guys, if we're at— if we're getting this specific, we clearly don't have enough audience.

Yes, I would agree, right? If you're counting the busboy, you've, you've missed the mark, right?

Exactly. So at the time, this was in the early 2000s, and based in New York City, if you wanted to let people know about your show, you had to buy an ad on a radio station or buy a billboard. And the most expensive media market in the entire country. Mm-hmm. And so we were doing a corporate gig. A lot of times you'll get hired from companies to like, to help their salespeople get off their scripts. So they would hire improvisers to help teach them. And we were doing this one gig and the person before us was talking about this new thing called Twitter and how companies were using it to connect with their customers. And I looked around at some of my fellow actors and I said, I think we can use this to get more people to our show. And so at nighttime and nap time, because I had two little girls, um, I would figure out marketing. Like, I just, I wanted to know more. First it was social media marketing, then it was marketing in general. And So that's how I got into marketing. Initially, I was freelancing, then I launched Downstage Media when both of my kids were in school full-time. And shortly thereafter, I read the book Building a StoryBrand written by Donald Miller. And that book is all— it's a great book, right? Yeah, it's all about using story structure. It's the same story structure that we learned as improvisers to make up stories on the spot, to make up musicals on the spot. It was the same story structure, it was just for marketers. So I was like, "Oh, I can definitely— This makes sense to me, and I know it's gonna make sense to a lot of the companies in the performing arts that I work with on their marketing." And then I realized that I wanted to take those same principles but just branch out because once the pandemic hit, there wasn't as many— Obviously, the performing arts weren't around, their budgets weren't around. Really decimated the industry for a while. So I thought, I bet I could still use these same— the same premise for different companies and different niches. And that's kind of where I am today, which is that I use a lot of storytelling principles, a lot of theatricality in what I recommend people do when they are creating content and really think about their audience and what their audience wants. And figure out ways to connect you to your audience.

That sounds very intriguing. So who have you landed on if the performing arts is no longer your focus? Who do you focus on?

I work with a lot— strangely, in the past few years, I've worked with a lot of companies that are leadership and development companies, culture companies. They'll go in and they will help the leadership team become better leaders to then leave. Oftentimes though, it's companies that have one main thought leader. They're a thought leader, they're a keynote speaker, and they go out there and they make a ton of content. They're great on stage, they love making video content, and they love making email content. Like, they could put out content all day long. But usually they have someone else on their marketing team who's a little bit burnt out. And so I work with both of them so that way the company itself can either get more consulting gigs or the keynote speaker can get more speaking gigs. That's oftentimes who I work with.

Funny, I thought you were going to say dentists, but that makes more sense.

Right?

Yeah. Um, no, I didn't think you were going to say dentists. I, okay. So I, I have this nascent theory running around in my head around content. Uh, and I'm going to share it with you and I'll get your feedback.

First of all, I love that you use the word nascent.

Isn't that a great word?

It's a great word.

It is. Um, and, and, and the, the 5 people that regularly listen to the show, will probably say—

Shout out to our friend in Hollidaysburg, Pennsylvania.

Yes, they're probably going to say, shut up, Christian, you're talking about this too much. But it's my show, so I can. The conversations I've had over the last few weeks have led me to this insight. You have now, and this is pre-LLMs, okay? So this goes back really to Spotify and the whole, uh, long tail, um, idea that the cost of, cost of content production in whether it's visual, audio, uh, written word, doesn't matter, has essentially dropped to zero. It doesn't cost you. You, you can, you can put together a book and get it published on Amazon in the morning, right? So the, the Cost is nothing. So it attracts, uh, all the do-it-yourselfers, all of the, uh, what, what, you know, people call AI slop. Uh, there's just a tremendous amount of content out there. Yes. And as a marketer, you would agree, getting that content in front of the right people is becoming increasingly more difficult because of the noise. Yeah. So what I postulate— there's another 10-cent word for you— that the thing that's missing is the human and the human curation and the human curation vis-à-vis community. So Uh, was listening to a speaker, uh, recently from Mighty Networks, and they said that the online learning platform content, uh, is already in decline. Like, that's their business, and they say this is on the decline, and their pivot is to lean into the communities where the content is not solely coming from the head of that community or the thought leader, whatever. It's also coming from the community. And so it has this dual purpose of engaging the community, solidifying the community, but it also takes the onus off of the one person to create all the content and it becomes a communal effort. What do you— speak to that.

Okay. So if I'm hearing you right, the question is, should we be going away from thought leadership content and instead leaning into communities and fostering communities where people can speak to one another versus us speaking to them?

I don't think it's an either or. I think it's a progression. I mean, you know, the, the, the, the, the people that attract large audiences, you know, in, in whatever the format— Joe Rogan, for instance, in the audio video, he's going to attract his people, right? But the long tail has all of these niches beneath it that are uber-specific, and you've had thought leaders, right? But I think the discoverability of the content could be aided by the human curation, right? So it's like, this is worth Annie's time. This is worth the investment of her energy, as opposed to just abdicating it to the algorithm.

Yes. Yes. Okay. So it's interesting that you say this because given the overall idea of this podcast itself, that's a big part of how I spend almost every day. So let me explain. Is I think content is a big part of it. What has really helped me, especially in the last year, and it's worked so well that I'm continuing it into 2026, is making sure that more often than not, so around 3 days a week in a work week, that I will do each of these 3 things, or I will spend at least a half hour's time in these 3 areas. One area is content. I definitely want to make sure that if people are looking to vet me, they can find me and my thoughts and my ideas and how I handle things. I do a lot of consulting, so I want people to have a sense of what my vibe is before they actually schedule a call with me, right? Mm-hmm. So content I work on, of course, that's what I do all day long, um, for clients and everything. Like, that's my topic that I really have focused on. But another part of that is what I call relationship building activities. So making sure that I'm fostering relationships with other people. Because I do find that it is so valuable to make sure that I have them. So that might mean having a one-to-one conversation with someone in a community that I'm already in. Maybe, um, so I'm a Mailchimp Pro Partner, right? So Mailchimp has a Slack channel that's purely for their partners and their Pro Partners. And so maybe I'm gonna spend a half hour on that. I also run something called the Marketing Algonquin in my— so I live in New Jersey and I get a bunch of local marketers together once a quarter and we sit down and we have a meal together just like they used to do with the Algonquin Roundtables 100 years ago or the Algonquin Roundtable 100 years ago. And we just talk shop, right? But I cap it to 8 people. I specifically keep it small. And I make sure that we're able to really talk about ideas. So there's a lot of different ways that I do those relationship building activities, but I find that when I do them, they work very well in conjunction with the content, right? It helps inform the content that I'm creating. It helps that content get in front of more people because people who I am interacting with are commenting and sharing and engaging with it. So I find that those two things work very well together. Do you want to know the third? Because I haven't talked about the third.

I wasn't counting, but now that you mention it, yes.

Okay. So the third is then money-making activities. All of this stuff doesn't do you any good if you are not finding leads, following up with leads, putting together proposals, having sales conversations, having second sales conversations, doing the stuff that's actually going to bring in revenue. So, when I focus on those 3 things, I find that my revenue goes up.

So, you said, I mean, were those activities that you weren't focusing on prior?

I wasn't focusing on them diligently. I wasn't keeping track. So, I then started keeping track of them, right? Like, when I would do it just sort of the way that people keep track of when they work out, like, "Oh yeah, I worked out today." So, I would just do it. So, if I spent a half hour on money-making activities, then I would give myself a little check. And if I did that with relationship building activities, I would do the same thing. And I just started marking it down. Whereas before, maybe I would think, okay, yeah, well, I wrote this blog post. It took me 3 hours to write it. I'm good now. I don't need to make any content for another few weeks. But I have found that being diligent about it is more helpful for me. But I would give myself a hard time if I was trying to do it every day and I didn't. And then I'd be like, I would feel bad and I'd let myself down. So then I started being a little bit gentler with myself and had the ethos of more often than not.

I like more often than not. Yeah, it's, it's, yes, there's a lot to unpack in that last sentence. I think, I think it is easy to discourage yourself. I also think it's difficult to do things systemically to move the needle. Yeah, we tend to gravitate to what we enjoy or what is comfortable, not necessarily the things that we need to be doing.

And if you are a person who is very driven, like a people pleaser, which I totally am. I was just talking to a Broadway performer who has created a course about how to— like sort of the business of the business, right? And so, he is trying to get that course in front of more people and get more people in his email list and all that kind of stuff. So, we're talking through that strategy. Strategy. And a lot of places were interested and they would say, "Hey, can you lead a workshop on this? Can you do a 60-minute or a 90-minute workshop on it? We're not going to pay you, but would you do it?" And he was like, "Yeah, this is great. I love it. I want to get my work out there. I want more people to know about it." But I finally had to say to him, "Look, you've been doing that for a while now. You know the content is tested." You know audiences are interested in it. They consistently show up at these workshops. They consistently will take your free one-on-ones that you offer. We got to start monetizing now. But it feels good for people to say, "Hey, we're going to bring you in for this." That feels good. But it's not necessarily going to help your business. So it's not just what we like doing. But it could also be like what feels good and what can kind of feed our egos.

100%. And you will find people that will suck all the time, energy, and life out of you if you don't set up those guardrails. 100%.

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I, I, you know, I, This is kind of nasty, but, um, Christian, let's get into it. Not nasty that way, but it is. No, I just thought like, ooh, okay. So, uh, you know, I'm a CPA and I got real tired, uh, when I'd introduce myself because, you know, it's like you put a slap on a pocket protector automatically, uh, when you say I'm a CPA and that like they have this idea of what you are, right? The label that comes with it. And so to discourage that behavior, because then the follow-up question was, "Oh, I got this situation. What should I do? What do I do? Taxes, blah, blah, blah." I started intentionally giving them wrong answers. Yeah, isn't that kind of nasty? Yeah, it is. And I do it in such a ludicrous way that it was clear. Like, I'm not giving you misinformation that you might misuse. I'm like, you know, here's my favorite. Here's my favorite. And we actually had this. We had one of our leadership team meetings that I wish we'd recorded it because we went and riffed on this for about 5 minutes. And we were all in stitches afterwards. So like one of the ubiquitous questions that we get is, you know, some variation of, can I write off my pet for taxes? And we, we just went through the whole absurdity of it, of like, well, no, but what you need to do is you need to set up a corporation and make the dog an employee.

Sure.

And then like, it's all these fringe benefits, but maybe we need to get a trust involved. Like, you just get the absurdity of it, right?

Yes.

I don't know where I was going with that, but I shared the story.

Well, so it sounds to me like as a CPA, a lot of people are asking you questions and trying to get your expertise without paying you for it. For free, yes. Yes. And that can feel really good. And so having those half-hour calls, 'cause you get to be the smartest person in the room.

Smartest guy in the room, right, yeah.

Right, and that feels good. But it doesn't help you with your revenue.

No. Per se. And creatives, I think creatives are susceptible to that more so than not, especially earlier on in their business journey because they really like that validation of like what you do is important and what you do is cool and yeah. Okay. Yeah.

So it's basically clap for me, right?

Like, yes.

Yeah, that's what I've been in a lot of— a lot of people ask me, like, do you miss performing? Right. And I've been in a lot of therapy since then. Like, I no longer need to have— I no longer need to have a couple of hundred people clap for me at the end of every night, or whatever, 5 or 6 or a half dozen. Yes. I don't need that anymore. But I did for a while, and I could see how it would influence a lot of the choices that I made. But that's the thing is that it's doing those 3 tasks regularly, systemically, like you were saying, like just this is what I do. When I was writing my book, Simple Social Media, I just thought this is what I do. I write every morning from 6 to 7. This is what I do. And those bricks that you add, you stack them up. And then it actually helps you build something. And I wouldn't be saying this if I hadn't seen how it worked for an entire year.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that Full Commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. Yes, because it's, it's easy, especially if you are trying to please people and or looking for validation. It's very easy to be very busy and not make any money. Yes, it will, it will it's like that's a well-worn groove. You'll slide right into that very easily. It takes effort to be intentional about being profitable. And, you know, I talk— the second chapter in my book is all about money mindset. And it speaks to, you know, all of the garbage that we come to the business with not just money beliefs, but the beliefs like you're discussing of validation and confirmation and affirmation that drive our decisions in our business. And if you're not intentional about, I have to make money at this thing, that is the reason why I'm in business. Now, that's, you know, some people might say, well, isn't that obvious? It is, but it's very easy to get your eyes just off the ball, right? It's very easy to get distracted and forget, like, I'm doing this to make money, not to make somebody else happy or not to be busy.

Right. Yeah, I think especially when that— a lot of those lessons became very clear to me also last year. I was going through a divorce, and so then it was getting used to the idea that I was the, I was the head of the household then, right? And so, whereas before, if I had a slow quarter, but my husband didn't, then like, you know, we would sort of balance each other out, or sometimes we were both good, you know, but all of a sudden it was like, oh, the cavalry's not coming. So like, this is it, this is it. So you've gotta figure this out. This is no joke. And that's when I was just— and I just thought, I was like, what are the things that help me? How do they all work together? Content, relationship building activities, money-making activities. They all help one another. If I can be very diligent about that, then this will be something that I can get through. And my divorce cost over $75,000. I made sure that I ended the year divorced and debt-free. So why are you— you're making a face.

Well, I'm reminded of the joke that my brother said, but I have to give you context. My next younger brother made the joke of, you know why divorces are so expensive? Because they're worth it. And the joke is, he's still married. He's been—

to his third wife?

No, he's only been married once, but he doesn't— he hasn't lived with his wife for over 10 years, and he's living with his girlfriend, but he's not even sleeping with her anymore. It's a mess.

Wow, you're getting into it today.

That's kind of the joke, is that he made that joke but then never ended up actually getting divorced, even though he— yeah, in any case, I'm sorry, Josh, if you're listening.

Sorry, Josh, it's complicated.

It is, it is, it is. Yeah. Um, okay, so I want to, I want to go back to something you said in the green room. You, you talked about, um, pivoting away from performing arts because of the need for scale. So let's dive into that a little more. What, what was the thought process there?

Yes, so initially Downstage Media was social media for the performing arts. That was the idea. That's what I focused on. And I had different services that I was offering at a low price point because I wanted to make sure that it was palatable for artists, that they could afford it, that they would be able to, to handle the price. But I realized that there was only so far that I could kind of get with that. I mean, I started with the performing arts because that was the world that I knew. So that made a lot of sense. But I just felt like the price point on this thing that I wanted to offer, let's say it's $300. I don't remember what it was at the time, but—

Let's say it together. $300, right? No, we'll say it together.

Oh, for crying out loud. Okay, 1, 2, $300.

Okay, we said it.

Yeah.

Okay, go ahead. So, um, but anyway, but, but I realized that like, but wait, but if I want to be making this amount of money for the year and then I break that down by quarter, and then I was like, wait a second, and when I look at the amount of people who are on my email list and then they actually open the emails that I send, and then they actually buy this thing, I'm gonna need to do way more scale at that price point. So I thought, hmm, I don't know if this is the niche for me anymore. I understood it was important to have a niche, so I was really proud that I was— that I had one. But there's a difference between having a niche and having a viable and one that is willing to pay you the money that you want to make in order to either make ends meet or, you know, hit your goals or whatever it is. So, that's when I decided that, "Oh, I don't have to just stay in the performing arts," which is good because right now with the pandemic, that's tricky. But I can be taught— I had a woman who I had met in my town who was the editor-in-chief of a national magazine. And she had written a book and she knew that her days were kind of numbered at the magazine. And she said, "I know I'm not in the performing arts, but will you still work with me anyway?" And that's when I said, "Yes, yes, I will. I am happy to accept your money." And I realized, oh, I can do the same stuff. I can teach the same ideas. I can still use these same theories that I use. It doesn't have to be that group of people.

Yes. And, and, uh, yes. And, uh, I think that, that you, what you, you had, you just really kind of hit it on the head of, of an, uh, a very important point that we think of our businesses often in terms of what we do, right? And I think the way to build a business that is sustainable and profitable has to flip that into what problem do you solve? Because what you described is very true. You could take what you do and how you do it and help a whole bunch of different types of people, right? But the way they perceive the problem, the way they describe the problem, the way they experience the problem is different. And I made the joke about dentists, like the way they perceive their marketing problem, their pain points, whatever, is going to be markedly different than a performing artist. Right? Sure. So it's not necessarily changing what you do or even how you do it. It's putting yourself in the shoes of the person for whom you're solving the problem.

Exactly. It's putting the focus on your— whoever your audience is. In fact, I talk about this a lot when I'm guiding people through how they want to show up in their content. And I'll oftentimes say, just switch— I mean, everybody's talking about pronouns, but just switch the pronouns from I, from all this first person, to second person, to you. So instead of I'm going to teach you, it's you will learn, right? Um, and it's, it's that adjustment that you start making, which then All of a sudden the paradigm shifts and you realize, oh, I am writing this for other people. It's not just for myself.

My head of revenue gave me a book last week. I haven't finished it. I don't remember the author's name, but the book is called Stories That Stick. I don't know if you've read it. But she brilliantly, and I think she did reference Donald Miller in Save the Cat or one of those stories books that's out there. She did mention that in hers, but she's strictly coming from stories that businesses need to tell. But her background was advertising, and she uses the traditional video advertising as her canvas to demonstrate the differences. And it's a great reminder because here's the thing. If you're a professional, if you consider yourself a professional and what you do is a service, Usually you lead with your expertise and your experience and why I'm so good and here are my features and benefits, right? But that is absolutely not engaging. I was coaching our salesperson, our account executive, he's new.

Shout out to the new guy.

Yes, Murray. You got a shout out. He and I were talking about a couple of his calls, sales calls, and I said, here's the thing. You're talking a lot about the solution. Replace it with a story, a client story of transformation. And he sat and he contemplated that for a second and he said, I'm talking about the trip, not the destination. I said, bingo, you want more toes in the sand and drink in hand with a little umbrella rather than talking about the journey on the airline and the airport and all the Uber rides. And nobody wants to hear that. Like, that part's not fun, right? Is that similar to what you're talking about here?

Yes, it's just that those stories I find helpful in content that you are putting out, right? But I find that it's important to couch it though, and remember that there is a story that you wanna tell where your audience is the hero and they go on the journey, right? They have a problem. They, um, you know, they know what they want, they know what's getting in the way, they know how that problem is making them feel, all of that stuff. And then eventually, once they start working with you, or once they experience your product, or once they have your service, then they're able to solve that problem and become the person that they've always wanted to be, right? Like, that's a lot of what I had learned in Donald Miller's work. And so then I've been certified in StoryBrand since, I don't know, 2021. And I meet with him regularly and he's been a mentor of mine.

Will you help me get him on the show? I've tried two different contacts. I can't get him on the show. Sure.

I can do my best.

You can ask. That's all you can do. I figure if he hears my name and the podcast name from enough different people. I had Mike Michalowicz, the author of Profit First, reach out to me because he had— Mike had him on a podcast. In any case, I'm getting off track. Go back.

Sorry. Yeah. So, so I think that that's also an important story too. So there's a story where your company is the hero, right? And sort of like, hey, this is how we— this is one time that we realized that we failed and we've learned so much from that. And here's another time where we— here's, here's why we decided to get story. Here's why we were renewed with our vigor for why we need to work with people who are just like you. Fine, those are important, engaging stories. You're right, they work great on social, they work great in emails. Um, also you want to make sure though that you are having your audience be the main character of the story. Many times more— again, more often than not, right? So when you're putting out— when you don't have some of those stories in your content. And maybe it's in general just showing that you understand what people are going through and you know how to fix it. You've got that empathy and that authority. Really make it about your audience and what they are going through.

Yeah, I, I was talking to a client several months ago. He's a videographer in the Boston area and he works primarily on documentaries. And I was kind of working through him with him on this. And I'm like, okay, why do people hire you as opposed to all the other videographers in the Boston area? Right? And he kept, you know, relating what he thought. And I kept asking questions to clarify. And finally, you know, I found this gem of like, oh, okay, you're the, you're the organized one. Like, I know independent producers and they're usually just complete shit shows. I'm sorry, guys. They're not organized. They're uber creative, right? And like, you know, just getting everybody to the set on time with the right equipment is a challenge, right? And I said, that's what you do. That's what— that's why they hire you, right? And I think that's how you get to the story, right? Like, you have to delve into who you're working with and what problem you're actually solving to understand the story to tell. Because it started very generic when he said why they hired him. But as we kept diving into it, he just had this like, oh, I hadn't really thought about that. I'm like, go back and ask. Like, I think this is why you, you hire me. Is that, is that right?

Right. Exactly. Yeah. And you could start putting that out in your content more. So many videographers that you wanna work with don't invoice you on time. They don't get you the receipts that you need. They flake out. They don't have the time right. I, you know, and then it's, it's, and it's starting with that hook of that problem. Mm-hmm. And I get it. That's frustrating. That's annoying.

Mm-hmm.

And so what we offer is we make sure that this is gonna happen and this is gonna happen and this is gonna happen. So that way you don't have to worry about me. You can focus on what's happening on set.

I feel like that we could continue because we haven't even really got into the comedy. I haven't mentioned my favorite comedies such as Monty Python, Airplane, any Mel Brooks movie. But unfortunately, our time is up. Time is at an end. How do people find Downstage Media and learn more about you, Annie?

The best way is to go to downstage.media, and I highly recommend you go to downstage.media/blog. I write every 2 weeks. I have a new article out, and it's a lot about these points of view on content, on how you can get your content out sustainably. You could subscribe to that, and I'll just send you the next post in your inbox just to make life a little bit easier for you. So downstage.media/blog and subscribe to the blog.

Listeners, we'll have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a message and tell us what you'd like to hear, and I'll get rid of Annie.

Oh my God, you're totally going to hear from your brother on this. He's going to be like, I didn't like what I heard.

I wish he wouldn't listen to this. Until next time, folks. Ta-ta for now.

Bye. Thank you.