Melinda Jackson: Finding Your Voice

The one thing that keeps coming up that's the hardest thing for me to let go of, it's that imposter syndrome, but a little bit deeper than that, that somebody is going to find out that I'm inherently a bad person. And that comes from some of the religious programming, you know, whatever, and being a woman in the South, but that I am an inherently bad person and nothing I can do is going to fix it. And then I'm continuously trying to prove that I'm not a bad person when I know I'm not a bad person. This is The Chris Project, where we discuss mental wellness self-awareness, and mindset with entrepreneurs and experts. Set your perceived ideas and biases aside and let's go on our journey for yourself, for your family, for the world.

Welcome to another episode of The Chris Project. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is Melinda Jackson. Melinda, welcome.

Thanks so much for having me.

So, for the audience's benefit, give us the bio of Melinda Jackson.

So, I am Melinda Jackson. I am based in Raleigh, North Carolina, and I'm the owner of Melinda Jackson Public Relations. I started in PR right out of college here in North Carolina, and I moved to Los Angeles to work in entertainment PR. I moved to LA with $500, no job, nothing, just knew, sheer intuition and blind confidence in myself that I needed to work in entertainment and PR. And I did literally everything you can think of, all the red carpets, all the award shows. I have a Grammy, I have an Emmy, I have all these things. And then had very severe burnout 10 years in, and I was about to turn 30 and I was just like, I can't— or 7 years in, excuse me. I had severe burnout and I was like, I can't do this anymore. So I moved back to North Carolina and worked in an advertising agency for a couple of years and just realized 10 years into PR, I could do so much better for my clients one-on-one and I could have that time for myself because a lot of things in that, in the advertising world or big agency world can be very triggering if you do have mental health issues. So yeah, I've, I've had my company for 6 years and I love Helping people tell their stories. I love helping people grow their business just from getting them on podcasts or, um, helping, helping them get interviews, or even just a calendar listing for an event can really help.

So going from North Carolina to LA had to have been a culture shock. I only, I only say that because I, I watched my, uh, middle daughter, who is a oil painter, a figurative painter, moved to West Hollywood in her late 20s, and she came running back, uh, after 2 years. And it was, it was kind of funny. I mean, it was— she was what I always would call my, my, my liberal daughter, a very progressive daughter. And West Hollywood was too weird for her. And she, she came back, and all of a sudden she was driving pickup trucks and listening to country music. And I'm like, what the hell happened?

I mean, like I think I'm your daughter because I moved back, I have a Bronco, and now I listen to country. But I'm the liberal one. So yes.

What about the LA scene caused— I want to use your words— mental— it wasn't breakdown. What did you say?

Burnout.

Burnout. Okay. Yeah. What caused that?

So I've always struggled with mental health, mainly anxiety and depression. And it's something that was triggered when I was in 3rd grade. And then again, it resurfaced pretty severely my freshman year in college, as tends to do, you know, when you're going through these big life changes. But in LA, I was on my own and I wasn't making a lot of money, but I was being told by my parents, you're making great money. But North Carolina cost of living is completely different than LA, and I lived in Hollywood, so similar to your daughter, just down the road. It's very expensive and I wasn't making any money and I'm working 24/7 and you're going to all of these events and award shows outside of office hours. So you truly always have to be on, especially in PR and being on the West Coast, I would have clients in London or New York. And so that's such time zone changes. So you never slept, and then compile that all with toxic relationships in your 20s and, you know, just begging anyone to love you. I just could not handle it anymore. And I had no boundaries at all in terms of work, personal life, anything. And I was trying to do too much while I was getting grossly underpaid and grossly undervalued by your job. So I'm not saying it's all the job, but it was— it's that lifestyle, and I could not handle it anymore. More after 7 years.

Yeah, what I, what I've discerned, and, and what my head of marketing for my company worked in, in Hollywood for several years as well, and what I just, just those experience points with my daughter and what you're saying is that there's this— it's kind of a machine, and they take in young people lot of young women with some type of creative talent, and they— I use the word abuse because they know that there's someone right behind them, like, and, and it's that whole experience bucks, like, I'm getting paid in experience bucks, not real bucks. I remember my daughter, she had been in Dallas before she moved to Hollywood, and so she had a little business savvy already. And this gallery owner had said, uh, well, yeah, I'll take you on, but you have to lower your prices. And my daughter was like, wait a second, you want me to lower my prices and then take 50%? She's like, no thanks. I— but I can see where people that were looking for their break, looking for their opportunity, would, would take that deal, right? And so I just— it just is, is the, the culture, the business model I don't know, of, of L.A. So you mentioned something, and with your permission, I'll dig because that's what I do. You said that this, this anxiety and depression showed up for you first when you were in elementary school, third grade. Was there some event that caused that?

Yes. And I'm very happy for you to dig. I'm an open book. I had a third grade teacher who was extremely abusive, verbally abusive, and never physically abusive, just very verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. And she had our entire class in second grade, and then she got special approval to move us all with her to third grade, which they would never do now. And I don't know why they did it. And I think there was some gaslighting to our parents and it was like, Oh, but they'll all stay together and they'll learn more. I don't know, but we did. And for some reason I was the person that she targeted. And now I know that this is just a pattern of hers, but I was the person she picked on the most. And I would get very nervous and I couldn't read out loud. And that's— third grade is when you're learning to read out loud and you're, you know, the big words. And I would struggle. And so she told my parents that I had a learning disability. They moved me to the reading lab class, but I didn't need the help. And I was like, "I can do this." And no one would listen. She made me— I just have distinct memories of standing in the class like Bart Simpson writing rules on the chalkboard while everyone else was at recess. I didn't go to recess the entire year just because she would find some reason to keep me in. I don't know why she targeted me. I don't know why she targeted anyone. I've done a lot of reprogramming on that with my therapist to the point where I convinced myself that she was not alive anymore. And I found out last year she is very indeed alive. So that messed me up a little bit. But yeah, so it was that, you know, this authority figure who just took advantage of a situation and was just like completely cruel to someone and I don't know why. And then couple that with going and telling my parents and they thought, "She's just being dramatic." You know, they trust the teacher, they trust the principals, they trust the people that are in place, not a third grader. Once other kids started coming home and telling my mom or telling their parents how mean the teacher was to me or that I wasn't allowed to go outside and play or whatever, other parents started telling my mom and my mom realized I wasn't lying. And so probably in April of the school year, which is way too late, my mom went to the school and stood outside of the classroom and heard her screaming at me. And so pulled me out of the class, got me tested. I was academically gifted, which is what they called it then. I don't know what they call it now, but I was on a 5th grade level in 3rd grade. So I was probably just ahead of the curve, a little bored, and very, very anxious. But that got turned into lazy. Learning disability, etc.

I have 3 grown adult children, and, and watching that education, it's like they're their own little, uh, monarch. Teachers are— it's like they're kind of like a judge in their courtroom. Like, you know, they have complete control and they can do whatever they want. And, you know, which is fine, but then you get somebody that is abusive And it, it can go sideways in a hurry. And, and it's interesting, I, I had another guest, a good friend of mine, who talks, uh, talked about, you know, his, his grade school teacher had essentially told him that he had a learning disability. Very similar situation. Told his— and his parents were immigrants, so they didn't really even have a command of the English language. And so the teacher's telling him, you know, your kid can't read and he's stupid. You know, they agreed, but it was formative for him. And that's what I talk about on this show, is that trauma is relative, right? You know, you don't have to be physically abused or sexually abused, although I've had people on this show that have suffered those abuses. It's all relative because, you know, our brains work the same. If it feels danger, it reacts the same way, no matter what that danger is. So, how did that work as you moved into entrepreneurship?

Well, it's taken me a long time to kind of reprogram a lot of that stuff. And I was in Portugal last week. My client is based there, and we were going over our 2025 strategy, and I was I like almost want to cry talking about this. I was reading off like the PR plan that I had helped write. And I'll have these short circuit things in my brain where I tell myself, "You're not reading it correctly. You're not reading it right. You can't read out loud." Because that was the whole thing in third grade. I was terrified to read out loud. I was terrified to mess up because she would freak out on me. So even as an adult and as someone who literally is in public relations. It's my job to advocate for people, to speak for people on behalf of people, to do public speaking, to do all these things, to communicate. Sometimes it's so hard for me and I have to, you know, do those tricks where if I'm doing a presentation, I have to memorize it beforehand and know it forwards and backwards. So if I try to read it on the screen and I get jumbled, I can catch myself. So that still happens a lot. But I know because I've done reprogramming, because I've done so much therapy, I know I am not stupid. I know I can read. I know as an adult, my brain works so fast, it's just hard for me to get it out sometimes. That's the issue. It's not that I'm incapable. But in terms of jumping and being an entrepreneur, on the complete flip side, I have so much blind confidence in myself for a lot of this stuff. And I just, I go by my intuition. And if I just know in my heart and in my gut it's something I need to do, then I do it. And that's why I started my own company.

I'm going to ask this question, and maybe you've thought about it, maybe you haven't, but do you think that your choice of vocation being public relations is a reaction to that trauma? The Chris Project is is sponsored by The Rupp Group Coaching and Consulting. If you are interested in implementing some of these suggestions that you've been hearing about, or in general you feel like there's parts of your mental game or actually your implementation strategy that you feel is lacking, and you love the opportunity to actually start to build yourself into the person that can create the success that you're looking for, please reach out vis-à-vis the link in the show notes to grab a free consultation with us to see if we help elevate your mental or your business game. Thank you very much.

It's funny that you say that. I've been doing a lot of meditating and journaling work lately, and that's something I actually processed about a month ago, that I think I chose something so vocal because I didn't have a voice then. No one listened to me then. And then I've overcompensated. I'm very outgoing. I am very energetic. I am the least introverted person on the planet. And I get to be a voice for other people now. So I get to speak up for myself and I get to speak up for other people. And I definitely think that that's a huge reason. And then also, I was raised in a very conservative Christian, Southern Republican environment where women don't have choices. And women don't, you know, they're not loud, they're not crazy, they're not all these things that I am. And I know that that's not true for me. You know, it's okay. It's okay to be outspoken. It's okay to advocate for yourself.

I think that's normal for most people, that they overcompensate for their perceived weakness, like the something that they think is flawed. About them. I know in my case, I was the only child of my parents, and then my father remarried, and I have 4 half-siblings, and that was my family growing up, but a lot of my life was different because I had shared custody, and so I would visit my mom, and it was just that I— and I was the oldest, So it— I was different than the other kids, right? And although I can't say that I ever didn't feel loved, uh, by them, uh, or my stepmother, it was— I was different. And they, they would make jokes as they got older that, that I was just half. I was, I was I was just half, right? And I didn't realize what an impact that had on me. But what happened was, and I didn't— kudos to you to figuring this out earlier, but I was in my 50s. We're talking recent history here because I'm 54 when I started to realize that I had this deep feeling of inadequacy, like, uh, something, something was wrong with me. I was, I was not good enough. And I say that, and I share your experience on this show, that, you know, I think we all owe it to ourselves to, to dig into those feelings to understand why we act the way we do. Because, you know, a lot of it happens at the subconscious level, you know, it never rises to what you're thinking.

Yeah. And I think for me, after doing all this reprogramming and working with therapists and journaling and meditating and everything, the one thing that keeps coming up, that's the hardest thing for me to let go of is that it's that imposter syndrome, but a little bit deeper than that, that 'somebody is going to find out that I'm inherently a bad person.' And that comes from some of the religious programming, you know, whatever, and being a woman in the South, but that I am an inherently bad person and nothing I can do is going to fix it. And then I'm continuously trying to prove that I'm not a bad person when I know I'm not a bad person.

And— Go ahead and finish your thought, but I want to dig into this.

Yeah. And I don't know, like, And I don't think anybody's ever straight up told me, like, "You're a bad person." But it's a lot of just that programming and how I was raised. And I think, you know, not to get super into religion of it all, but like in the conservative Christian evangelical environment that I was raised in and that I'm still a part of, but that I was raised in, it's You know, you are a bad person. God is there to save you. You have to prove that you're a good person. Like, you are bad just because this is how you were born and that you have to work on fixing it.

I'm going to dig in where you were trepid. I think that's interesting. I myself did not grow up in church. I came to Christ as a teenager and I spent 30 years with my family in one church. I had a calling to leave my church and start a home church, and it's been a fascinating journey. But one of the things that I agree with you that shows up for me is this question of goodness, right? I think that the Christian doctrine is that none of us are worthy, none of us are good enough, and in need of a Savior. What I see, this false gospel of you have to prove that you are not a bad person, and it gets into this whole idea of sin management, and then it becomes a comparison of sins like, well, your sins I mean, that, that person's homosexual, so his sin is worse than mine, right?

And clearly that goes against the teachings of Christ because a sin is a sin, right? Sin is a sin.

I met a fellow home church pastor and he grew up in an upper middle class. His dad was a dentist, you know, but he was kind of a hellion and he ended up on the streets in California as a heroin addict. Addict homeless. And as he's talking to me, he's talking about how he used to be a homosexual prostitute and all these things. And now he's married with 4 kids and he's a little younger than I am. But what was fascinating to me was the way he described his behavior. It was not like nonchalant. But, but it was definitely not like— I mean, he was just so open about it, like, this, this is what I was and this is what I am now. And, and so I say all that to say that I, I completely understand that feeling of wanting to appear to, to other people's expectations. And I think that's a theme that entrepreneurs, you know, You mentioned imposter syndrome. I think that's one of the things that we all struggle with, but entrepreneurs are kind of out there on their own in the spotlight. We're trying to live up to other people's expectations, what they think we should look like, what would they think we should be doing. And that's a dangerous place to be for your mental health.

Yeah, especially in what I do, and I've had to really convince myself that just because a publication is saying no to my client doesn't mean they're saying no to me. That's been a big thing. And now I'm just like, okay, whatever, I'll get another one. It'll, it'll be fine. I'll get another one. Somebody else will want to talk about it. Let's just keep moving. But it's really hard for me not to take that stuff personal. And PR is just so finicky, like there's so many layoffs in the media, no one writes for who they used to write for, and there's so many variables and, and it's, it's hard for me to not get caught up in it and take it personally or think, oh my gosh, my clients are going to think I'm doing a bad job. If a, if a like story gets bumped, then that's not my fault. It's, that's breaking news, you know, whatever. And the client knows that. But I have to really like ground myself sometimes. And say, look, everyone doesn't hate you. It's okay. They're still paying you. And when you send them the invoice, they will pay it.

Yeah, I remember my artist daughter had a TikTok that went viral a couple of years ago. And at the time she was actually selling prints of her work and it blew up such that she called me and she was like, I don't know what to do. And I'm like, well, turn it off. Like, you know, You can't keep up with demand, like, turn it off. And she was lamenting the feedback on TikTok, right? Because it was a kind of a controversial piece. She does weird shit. And, you know, there were a lot of people that were praising it and a lot of people that were like, you're disgusting, you know, whatever. And I told her, I said, look, you can't have either or. You either accept all of the feedback or you step away and you don't have any of it because you can't cherry-pick. That's not the way your brain works, right? But to your point, if you're getting results, it doesn't really matter what everybody else is saying.

It's also hard for me to see my client wins as a direct result of something I did. I have a pharmaceutical client and we did a release last week and they called me the next day and they're like, the stock is up like 200%. They were so excited. And I'm like, okay, I don't know. And my boyfriend was like, you sent out the release that made it go up. Like you did this. And I'm like, well, they wrote the release and he's like, they don't know how to send a press release. You know how to send a press release. Yeah.

And I think that a lot of creatives like yourself struggle with, with accepting the value that people give you for your work. But I think that, as one speaker I heard recently talking to creatives, he said, "Just understand that the money coming to you is more like appreciation notes. Think about it like thank you notes as opposed to money." Because some people are like, "Well, I didn't earn that. What I did wasn't worth that." Yeah, I'm gonna steal that.

I love that.

If you were gonna go back and tell your 4-year-old or your 4th grade self, what would you tell your 4th grade self now?

I do this a lot. I have a meditation that I'll do where I go back and talk to myself. And it's always that you are not what people are telling you that you are. And look at, like, look at me now. This is you. Like, you're gonna be fine. It just sucks right now, and these people are stupid. But yeah, it's just a lot of like, these people suck, you know?

Yeah, I mean, the way my business coach described it to me was, you know, your subconscious, your emotions are back in 4th grade, right? But your cognitive brain is here in the present. And the best thing that you can do to short circuit those emotions is to engage your cognitive brain, right? And being able to disassociate with that feeling by like, that, that may have been true, but it's not true now. Like that, that's how I'm feeling is not reality. And that was a difficult thing for me to process, but it works to short-circuit those feelings.

And even that just reminds me of what I tell people to do when they're having a panic attack. Like, if I'm having a panic attack, I stop and I'm like, "Okay, let's look at the science right now. Did I drink water today? Probably not. I'm probably just a little dehydrated. Did I eat enough protein? My body's probably just like, Blah, you know, like, did I drink too much coffee? Like, I just break it down like that. And even just breaking it down helps me get out of the panic attack because it's like, nothing's wrong. Your body is just physically in fight or flight because you didn't feed it today.

You know, I don't know, when I was growing up, it was always count to 10, slow down and count to 10. And I'm like, that is exactly what you're doing. You're engaging your cognitive brain. And it can be that simple. So, any other ways that you've had to deal with these feelings as an entrepreneur that was significant to you?

Yeah, I think one of the biggest things for me when I started my business was, you know, it not being an office job. I'm not tied to a desk from 9 to 5. I can kind of work when I want to work, especially with PR. There's so many variables. I can send out 15 emails at the beginning of the day and have no other work to do because I'm waiting on people. So for me, there was like a lot of guilt around that. And then my dad told me, "Your 50% is most people's 100%." And so I tell myself that a lot. So I don't hold that guilt of, you know, not sitting at my desk the whole day. But then also the fact that I am so lucky that when I actually am having like a really bad depression episode or really, really bad anxiety for whatever reason, that I am allowed to work from bed. So my therapist, she told me that she was like, you have all the permission to work from bed. And so sometimes my best, the most I can do that day is send 2 emails and sleep all day because my anxiety and depression are so bad I'm crawling out of my skin. But that's still 2 emails I sent that day, and it's okay because the next day I'll get up and I'll feel completely different, and I'll get it all done, and I'll catch up. So that's— that— those have been really the biggest things for me, that like, it's okay that things don't look how they used to look.

Yeah, or what other people think they should look like. I mean, I, I think we, we've all been programmed with this kind of a Puritan work ethic of, of like you have to work hard to be successful. And the reality is that in this environment, this, uh, business culture world we live in, that's not accurate. I mean, this isn't a factory where you've got to produce a certain number of widgets and that requires a certain amount of time. That's not reality anymore. But accepting that for yourself, that that's okay, uh, it would— that definitely was a struggle for me. Like I'd be sitting there at my desk just looking at shit that I knew I didn't need to do. But in order to break that habit, I physically moved my office into this office with no windows, with no chair, just a stand-up desk where it was no music, nothing, and nothing on the walls. People said it looked like a prison, and it was intentional because it was like, okay, if I don't have something to do, there's no way I'm going to sit here because it's uncomfortable. And it worked. I mean, like, I got to move back into my other office because I learned that it's okay, that, you know, I have permission to leave when I'm done.

I love that.

Melinda, how do people find you if they want to learn more about your public relations company?

Yeah, it's Melinda Jackson Public Relations. If you just Google it, it's easy. Melindajacksonpr.com. Social, it's @melindajacksonpr. And then my personal social media is @melindagale, G-A-L-E. I talk about mental health and I'm very real on there. And you'll see, you'll see the breakdown. And if I'm having a panic attack, I'm going to livestream it or put it on my stories. Don't do that as much on my public or my professional social media. I have to keep those separate.

And I applaud you for that. That you can be that open and honest because there is that fear that, that it's going to tarnish your image like that. Yeah. No. So I'm—

well, I have had clients in the past say things like, oh, I think maybe your mental health is affecting your work. I'm like, it never has. It never will. You just saw that on my social media and you're using it as an excuse and I don't want to work with you anymore.

Melinda, thank you very much for your honesty and candor and experience share. I appreciate it very much. Listeners, if you like what you hear, please share the podcast, rate the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Until next time, remember, you are not alone.

Thank you for listening to The Chris Project. You are important. Your work is important. Do not give up.