The CMO Dream: A Conversation with Lindsey Miller | Lindsey Miller

Some marketing things that you're doing is just to be like, we are a legit business, we are alive. When people come to like research us, that we have Instagram posts that are there, you know, that sort of thing. And then the other part of that is like actually leading to something, getting people to make a choice and a decision to act, to make a purchase or opt into something. And so you still need to have those critical thinking abilities and again, the creativity to think through those customer journeys to make something happen. And, um, yeah, so I'm, I'm hoping that our, our little business gets to be sort of at the forefront of combining all of those things for people, um, that helps, you know, them build their business and do something cool.

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Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the internet where you will learn how to turn your passion into To Profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is Lindsay Miller of My Marketing Assistant. Welcome, Lindsay.

Thanks for having me, Christian.

Oh, you're so very welcome. Thank you for accommodating me. I know your story, but our listeners don't. So why don't you catch them up on, on what My Marketing Assistant is and how you got here?

Yeah, absolutely. So I launched My Marketing Assistant about a year and a half ago. Before everyone was talking about AI, like we were kind of using some of these automations and had been for a long time. And I thought, you know what, takes a lot of effort still to speak to the robots, to get them to give you the things that you want. And then you still have to do all of the work on the backend. And so we kind of launched this hybrid model of we're using a lot of automations, we're using some really sophisticated technology. Um, cause at the core, My Marketing Assistant is a technology platform. Um, but everything comes back to our team of really great marketing professionals in various, uh, areas of marketing and get it finessed before it goes out for people. And so it starts at, I don't know, really approachable price point. It makes it easy for people to say yes, I think. Um, but then they get really high-quality work product at the end. And yeah, we have a whole lot of fun. We get to do a lot of different stuff, which keeps me happy and interested. And yeah, building a pretty cool business.

So, so what kind of things does my marketing assistant assist with?

Yeah, so we are very like into the marketing space. So we're not setting people's calendars or answering emails. Like we're not doing executive assistant things. Um, but we're handling social media, video editing, podcast editing, publishing, all those things. We're handling website updates, um, small changes. Like if you need to go, oh, I want to change my pictures on these pages or rewrite content for Elaine landing pages, we do that. We're setting ad campaigns, email nurture sequences. We do a lot of people's monthly and bi-monthly newsletters. And like all the things that, you know, need to get done, you need them done well because it leads to sales for your company and you need to have people that you can trust to do it.

So who is your ideal customer? Who are you targeting?

So because I was a marketing professional for so long, like here's like what I always go back to honestly is I was working for very high-tech company. So it's like a 600-person company in the marketing space. And we had a really small team for as large as our business was. And I remember the CEO came to us one day and was like, I know you're so busy, I know you're overworked, and we really want to get you some help. I was like, okay, thank you so much, can't wait. They're like, we're gonna find you an intern. And I was like, okay, that's—

thank you, thank you. Somebody to train.

Yeah. So like, they were willing to pay someone. This was a internship. But then, like, he was lovely. Like, I got to hire him. He was great. He was here in Oklahoma, um, student at OU. But like, he wasn't very helpful because I had to teach him every single thing that he was doing. And so I always go back to that. I'm like, for the marketing professional who just needs an assistant, who just needs a little bit of help, but they need someone that isn't an intern and they don't have time to go to even Fiverr or Upwork or one of these other places and dig through those masses, and they just like they know what they need to get done. They just need somebody to go do it and it be done right. So really, we're finding marketing professionals that need the additional assistance whose company will support, you know, a $600 a month assistant.

Yeah, and you're bridging that gap with the technology that, you know, some people will say, well, just have ChatGPT do that or Claude or whatever, but I read a book probably 10 years now, uh, uh, ago, and I, I don't know how old the book is, but it was called Prediction Machines, and it was written by— it was on artificial intelligence, but it was written by two economists, um, and so they really kind of approached the AI question from a different angle. It was not a You know, how does AI work and what, what, uh, how can you utilize it? And one of the things that came out of it was that as AI got, uh, better, and of course this was before the, the recent iteration of AI with the large language models, he said that the, the, the demand is going to be for the professionals that can understand the software, understand the computer, and understand its weaknesses, its limitations, and how to get out of it what they, they need. And that's perfectly describing what you're talking about.

Yeah, absolutely. I think so. I need to read that book, um, because we do. I think many of the clients who come into us, like, we also do just strategy calls, right? So I'm sort of functioning for some people a little bit like their fractional CMO. Right? So we're coming in and we're helping them kind of figure out what they're needing, how best to utilize our platform with their existing team or their existing, like, single person marketing person, like, that's on the team, and trying to say, like, here's where your time needs to be spent, here are the things that you should be doing on a monthly basis in order to, like, move the needle for your company. And, and I think that's it, because there's, like, And again, I think it speaks to what you said, why can't ChatGPT do it? Like, yeah, the AI systems are doing a great job, but you have to do a lot of work ahead of time to get it to do a great job. And then you still have work to do afterwards. So, it's not like, oh yeah, ask ChatGPT to write an email nurture series that's gonna lead to sales for me.

You're not gonna wanna take what's the first, second, or third iterations.

Right. And so like, you know, our team can handle all that. You give us the direction, you tell us what's happening in your business, what the goals are, and then we use our tech and our brains to get it there for you.

Yeah, I think the thing that AI can't do and won't be able to do anytime soon is understand human behavior, right? And not to say that other humans are particularly good at understanding human behavior, but at least we have experience with it because it is unpredictable and irrational. And that, that human component is necessary when interfacing with AI and using AI.

Absolutely. And like the end goal, I mean, I guess there's two end goals, right? Like whenever you're talking about marketing and even creativity, you know, some, some marketing things that you're doing is just to be like, We are a legit business. We are alive. When people come to like research us, that we have Instagram posts that are there, you know, that sort of thing. And then the other part of that is like actually leading to something, getting people to make a choice and a decision to act, to make a purchase or opt into something. And so you still need to have those critical thinking abilities and again, the creativity to think through those customer journeys to make something happen. And, um, yeah, so I'm hoping that our little business gets to be sort of at the forefront of combining all of those things for people, um, that helps, you know, them build their business and do something cool.

So you've, you had a lot of experience in marketing up to this point, and, and I, you, you have a second business that you, uh, are transitioning out of, the question I have is, when you started My Marketing Assistant, what was the process you used to determine the business model? Like, how am I going to make money at this?

Uh, that's a good question. So yeah, so the business that you mentioned that we're transitioning out of was also a marketing business. And I started it in a, it's a productized service. Right. So it was, it was definitely a service. We just packaged it up in a way, um, that made the deliverables on our end and clear communication for clients. Just like, this is, this is set. We said, do your strategy at the beginning. And then every month after that is just like based on execution, looking at reports, making some changes, but like, this is what we're doing every month. And so, um, but it was a higher end. Service offering. Our average client was spending somewhere around $5,000 a month with us. And so I had several people that would come to us and go— clients that we liked working with, that we loved— and go, hey, can you do this other thing for me tomorrow? Like, that wasn't really like our culture, it wasn't our team. And so we started making a few of those exceptions, but more and more people wanted and needed that. They wanted like a, I don't know how to say this in a politically correct way, but like a lower-end type task, right?

Like, we don't care about political correctness here. You can call it a Bangladesh task if you want.

Right. Well, whatever kind of thing, like more of a task than a project, right? And it just wasn't really what we did. I wouldn't say it was something that we enjoyed doing, like these just like little things. But it just became more and more, and I, and I was thinking in my entrepreneurial brain, like, okay, I'm saying no to money here, saying no to revenue for my business. Is there a way that I can make this work? And so we have a mutual friend, um, Valerie Riley, and she had an assistant company, like a fractional assistant company. And so we, we used one of them, right? We 10 hours a week, 15 hours a week. And I thought, I could do that for marketing. What if I just hired one person and their job, like, added up to 40 hours a week from all these different people that needed these things? And after noodling that over for a little bit and talking to my spouse who comes from tech, he was like, you're thinking about this wrong. And so he did one of those, I wonder if it looked like this, and, um, I was like, I think that's a really great idea. So we kind of married all of those ideas together. And because it felt so separate from the other business, it felt like it needed to have its own entity, its own team, its own culture of we get things done in 24 hours and, um, and have different expectations on that team. So I mean, that's really where it came from was me going like, I'm tired of telling all these people no. And how do I get to tell them yes? And how do I make it still profitable at the end of the day? Like, how do you do things in an affordable manner, turn it around in 24 to 48 hours, it be done really well on that timeframe at that price point? And it became a really fun problem to solve.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. There's a couple of things I want to point out about your answer that I like. The first is that you recognized that it was not what you did, and traditionally In those situations, I recommend people say no because the distraction of focus on all the opportunities can lead to a dilution of your core competency and your ability to scale. But two, then your idea of like, if I've got all these people asking for something, that means that you don't have to do any market research. You know that there's a need., right? And the idea of spinning it up in a separate company, I think, is brilliant because it does keep it separate. And, you know, I've had some of those conversations with my leadership team when I come up with new ideas. They're like, yeah, that's great, but we're not going to do it here at Core. And I'm like, fair, like, because that's not what we do. That doesn't mean I can't do it. It's just that I can't do it with them. You know, I, I don't know that everybody has the bandwidth to manage multiple companies, but I think that if they're set up properly, where the owner's involvement is, is not critical or not full-time, it's very doable.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. I feel sometimes when I talk through that, Um, that people think I'm a little scattered or like not thoughtful.

No, I think just the exact opposite. I think just the exact opposite.

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You know, not to say most— I mean, I can remember my grandfather calling my mother scatterbrained and something to the effect of like, I don't know how you can be so smart and so dumb at the same time. And, you know, that was one of those things that stuck with me. My mother is a creative by nature, a lawyer by profession. Which is very strange. But, you know, the— I think about my daughter, I think about myself, there, there, and, and I, I can apply that label scatterbrained to all of us, but it kind of has a negative connotation, right? But that, that is true that our brains function fundamentally different. We, we, we're not linear. We get these popcorn of ideas and we don't know when they're going to come. And I oftentimes can't find my keys. And I think it's all just— it's wrapped into one thing, right? I mean, like, you can't undo it. I've tried for decades to be less scatterbrained, but it doesn't work because it's just the way my brain is.

No, I appreciate that. And honestly, talking about your mother, a lawyer and a creative, explains a lot about you, Christian.

I am more similar in, in, in that regard to her. Like, I have, I have both sides of my brain working, just neither one at full capacity. So I'm kind of a double halfwit.

I, I'm with you. I'm with you.

One of the things I like to delve into is, uh, and on this show is money mindset. And I, and a great question that I'm, I've stolen from one of my employees who does financial coaching. Is what is your first money memory?

Oh, goodness. Like from like childhood or something like that?

Earliest. What's the first one you can— that comes to mind?

My first one and my favorite is I used to sell art. I was in kindergarten. And all of the family holidays were at our house. We had like a nice gathering place. And so I would spend the week before the holidays, Thanksgiving. I remember when I learned how to do like hand turkeys, you know, you make your hand into a turkey. And I just thought I was really good at those and I wanted to be an artist. And so I would price my art how well I thought I did. And then as my family came over, I would sell art to them. Like, this is like— and everyone will talk about it. I did this for a couple of years and there was something about like thinking I could do something to earn money. And it wasn't for a goal because I was also like a money saver. I just wanted to have money. Like I knew that money meant something and I was going to have a skill that was going to do that. So it was like my first like service business was being an artist at 5.

I love that because about that same age, I would do something similar. I would make bead bracelets. And it was around OU football. And whenever the extended group of my family friends came together, you know, it was, it was a pretty easy pitch to get them red and white beaded, you know, bracelets. But just that, that it's that as we're talking about that, that's, that's kind of fascinating that that creativity profit, what's the word I'm looking for? Like that, that collision, that, that, that fusion of those two things came together so early for us. Like, that's interesting.

Yeah, there's definitely something like when I tell the story now and I've done even, have you included it in some pitches to different investors and stuff? Because I'm like, just want you to know, like I sold out art shows. As my first business. And then, right, it's a nice fun introduction at the beginning. And I have one of my pictures that my mom had saved that I put up on the deck. But there is something like I learned really young that I had the power to do something that people would pay for. And so my— I would take my brother's allowance— not take it, I would negotiate. My brother didn't want to do his chores, and so I would do his chores, and then I would get his allowance. And so Mom would hand us our allowance at the end of the week, and he'd just turn around and he'd keep a buck or something, and he'd hand the rest to me. And, um, I was doing them anyway, so might as well like do his. Um, and so yeah, there was always something happening in my brain. And then, you know, spent several years as an adult without a business before, you know, I started my first one. But there was always sort of like that, those ideas popping in my head.

Well, that's interesting. Talk about like, so, so the, the, this, uh, superpower was, was innate in you. And you were aware of it. So why did you go to work for somebody else?

You know, I, I don't know. I think I just kind of like backed into things. So I graduated from college with a degree in history with the intention of going to law school and, um, applied and got into OU and was like, you know what, like my pre-law program at OU was like, you should have some work experience. And I was lucky enough that I I hadn't had work experience, or I don't know, unlucky enough. I don't know, either way. My life was college and sorority, which probably also tracks for my personality. And so I was like, I'll go get a job for like this last little bit before I start law school. And I got an offer at a law firm, an oil and gas law firm here in Oklahoma City. And then I got an offer at a political party. At their headquarters.

And it's okay, you can say it.

Okay, the Democratic—

we're not going to shame you here.

I'm being very proud of the work I've done.

Um, but yeah, uh, so the party of, of slavery, Jim Crow, and, uh, you know, yeah, but that's fine.

We're not going there, Christian. We're not gonna go there.

And, uh, don't forget Andrew Jackson's relocation of the Indians, but that's okay. Go away, go away.

You know, that wasn't during my time.

You took it. You took a job with the Democrats. I would argue they've switched sides anyway.

We're not going to go there. Okay. So, um, yeah, so I was like, you know what, this law firm, it was like $45,000 a year. I think they had benefits or something like, I can't even remember the whole thing. And then working for the Democrats, it was like $25,000 a year and no benefits, but 8 of the 9 elected officials statewide at the time were Democratic. And I thought, that's, that sounds kind of fun and exciting. You know, I— my parents did me a huge disservice in the fact that I had no idea the value of like how much rent was or things like— I just didn't. And so $25,000, I thought, okay, sure, that sounds great.

Sounds like— in DC or here?

No, here in Oklahoma.

Okay.

All right. Yeah, here in Oklahoma. And, you know, and this is 20 years ago, right? Right. So, uh, ish.

You were still eating ramen.

Do what?

I said you were still eating ramen.

Yeah, right? And fine with it. It didn't matter. And so I thought, "I'll do that. I'll do that gig." And honestly, I just loved it. My boss, her name was Lisa Pryor, still a mentor of mine, gave me way more responsibility than I deserved to have. It was a sink or swim moment, and I swam, and it was awesome. And I never went to law school. And so I just hung around politics for a while, left the party, worked for Attorney General Edmondson at the time., on his campaign and did some really, really cool stuff. And so it just kind of floated around from opportunity to opportunity for a little while. And so I don't— I didn't make a conscious decision to work for someone, but at the same time, working in politics, you kind of are— even if you're a W-2 employee, you're kind of an independent contractor. You're setting your own hours, you're making your own projects, you're leading your own initiatives for the most part. And so I really, I was doing some reflection on this recently of just like, what do we do when we grow up? And I have had very few experiences where I worked for someone else, even in that, that high-tech company I mentioned, 600 people. I was the only remote employee for a time. It was based out of Michigan and San Antonio. And I was like this Oklahoma worker. I didn't have time off policies because they just were like, let Lindsay do Lindsay's things. And so even when I was working within companies, I was really fortunate to have, I don't know, a lot of freedom and flexibility and, um, yeah, just free rein over my role in the work that I was doing.

Could you— well, I'm gonna make this point that I, I, I just was thinking, you know, I think in a lot of ways politics Unless you're just a— no, I think it in all cases. I mean, in politics, you are kind of independent. Like, you, you are what you're selling, right? I mean, and it can go from person to person or even party to party or like, and, and it's really kind of like following the, the power. Uh, and, and so I can see there's an entrepreneurial element in being employed in politics just by its nature. But my question is, could you work for somebody now?

Yeah, I think I could. I think I could. I think that I still need to have a little bit of that autonomy, so I have to find the right person that would be willing to take me on. But I've been kind of saying that, like, not even as a joke in the last year. If an opportunity came my way that just was too good to pass up, like, I would really consider it.

The Chief Revenue Officer at Seven Figures, you'd take?

Yeah, right? Absolutely. Yeah, for sure, right? A CMO of some kind where I'm in charge of the marketing team and working collaboratively with the leadership team. Man, I would love that. What's the dollar amount? What's the dollar amount? Oh gosh. I mean, I'm not very— $150,000?

Oh, come on.

$150,000, something like that?

No.

Yeah, I would.

Okay.

I would. Maybe I need you to coach me and be like, "Come on, girl." Yeah, you're selling yourself short. Yeah, maybe so. But yeah, I would. I would be like, if someone came to me tomorrow and they were like, "We want you to be CMO. We're gonna pay you $150,000 a year. You have like a retirement account." I don't know. Like, I've never had one of those. Like, that'd be really fun, I think. And like, I wouldn't have to worry about all the business development and I could just focus on the marketing and leading like a really cool team and being in charge of like that culture enabling piece. I think, I think it sounds like a vacation. I think it sounds lovely.

That's fascinating because you're literally the first person I've interviewed and asked that question that said, uh, yes, because every, every other entrepreneur I talked to is like, No way. But, but, but to be honest, my own answer is no way, only because I know what a shitty employee I am. Like, and I was only an employee for 5, 5, 5 years of my life. Well, I mean, post-college. I mean, I'd had jobs before that, but I just, I don't, I don't know, maybe that's a flaw because if someone came to me and said, well, you know, here's a 7-figure gig for you, you know, should I look at it? I mean, like, I don't know. I mean, but I just have that in my head, like, I can't. So, maybe that's a self-limiting belief.

I would definitely say, like, I have a lot of ifs there, right? Like, if I have some autonomy, if there's a good collaborative environment with the leadership team and the CEO. Like, those things would definitely be really important to me and my own happiness. But like, I know a lot of entrepreneurs, like, right? Like, we're around a lot of people, and there are so many that I would be like, I would 100% work at their company. Like, because I know them, and I'm like, I could totally work for that person. And so yeah, give me a— give me a great salary and let me take the vacations that I want to take during the year. But I love to work. Work. I find a lot of pride in work and getting and meeting goals and collaborating with people. Like, I love that stuff. And so yeah, I think I could, right? You can't be a jerk to me. I don't put up with too much crap about people being like—

No assholes.

Yeah, exactly. But yeah, there's respect and fun in the workplace.

Like, yeah, I could totally do If you're going to go back to your younger self and give yourself some business advice, first question is, would you listen to yourself? Because I'm convinced I wouldn't. Like, I could come to me and say, you really need to do this. And I'm like, eh, that guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Right?

Would you listen to it? And if so, what would it be?

Oh gosh, that is a really good question. I'm going to steal that for my own future podcasting things because that is a really great question. I think I would listen because I have a lot of mentors in my life and I do like to take on their advice and heed it when I do now.

But I didn't then.

So yeah. Oh yeah, I think I would. Okay. And then what advice would I give? And specific to like profit and finances?

No, you can be whatever.

I think I would tell me not to like, like, because I'm, I'm not afraid of failure, but I'm also like, when failure happens or is like starting to happen, I'm like, I bounce on to the next thing. And I think I would probably tell myself to like give it 50% longer. Like, don't like be— keep, keep ahead and like you're doing well, not to be afraid to fail, but like don't fail so fast. Like stick with it and be— have just like a little bit more fortitude.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. Yeah, that, that's a hard needle to thread. Like, how, how long do you keep doing something you believe in before you— and when do you, when do you become, uh, persistent, comes to become stubbornness, right? Like, that, that's a hard one. It's a hard one for me. I lean the opposite direction. You may, you may give up too quick. I give way after I should have let go.

So then our older selves could talk to our younger selves and then we could like help each other like balance that out.

Possibly. Possibly. I don't know that I'd listen to you.

Um, I don't know that I'd listen to you either.

I'm just being honest. I'm just being honest. What challenges, what financial challenges have you encountered in your businesses? Like what and how did you address them?

So I think early on I was super good about like just keeping a bunch of money in the bank, like going back to like the little Lindsay that was a saver. I did a lot of that. And then, um, I did listen to peers and mentors and other people of just like, you know, you have to spend money, take some big risk and all that sort of thing. And I got a little too far over my skis at times. Um, because even though at the core we're like a recur— a monthly recurring revenue model, like there's so many ebbs and flows of business. And so like, I was so conservative at the beginning and felt maybe overconfident in that and needed to overcorrect. And so I, I had to kind of, I had a couple of months where I was like, ooh, ooh, are we gonna make payroll this month? Like had some clients leave and like kind of, that's not a good feeling that I would like to repeat. But I think I needed to feel it to learn that lesson, I think. Um, and then kind of went back over, over the next way. And then what I did is sort of like at the beginning of every year now, I like, I started like a line of credit where like, I don't necessarily use it, but I have it in case I need it. Um, and that was a really good learning space from that of like, okay, so if I don't have the savings built up, but I need access to capital, you get access to capital when you don't need it so that if you do need it, it's already there.

Yeah, no, that's, that's something I learned. I think, you know, that I used to be a commercial banker in my former life. Not something I'm proud of. But that was the joke, was one of my customers told me, was, you know, the banker is the guy that takes away the umbrella when it starts raining. And, and that's true. You gotta You got to ask for credit when you don't need it, which makes no sense, but that's true. So on this paradigm, this continuum of savings versus investing, where did you end up landing? So you started one extreme, got uncomfortable. So what is your mindset around how much you need to have in the bank now?

So I keep about 3 months of payroll in the bank now at all times, just over like in a little savings account. And then anything extra from that, I kind of like take some big steps and throw more ad money in or, uh, do, do fun gifts. Like we do Christmas in July for our clients. Like, and so depending on where we're at and how much extra money we have, like that's what we do. Um, and so. So yeah, hopefully it's like a better balance now of keeping that there. And then like with the excess, I don't necessarily turn that back into my pocket. I invest it back into the business somehow.

I think that's a good, I think that's a good middle ground. I, I, that's what I recommend in the book is, is 3 months of operating expenses, you know, and some people might be comfortable with 6, some might be comfortable with 1. It really depends on your business, but I think the shift there is when that money is in the bank, it allows you to not be in reactive mode. It allows you to be in proactive mode, and that's a huge difference because if you're in reactive mode— and it's not just financial reactive mode, it's everything. Because the lack of financial stability permeates the whole organization and your whole brain, your whole thinking. Once you make that shift to be proactive, it's transformational is the only word I can use. And for us, if it wasn't a record year, it was you know, top 2 or 3 this last year as far as revenue and profitability. And what was, what was scary to me was how I was then in this space of, well, this is pretty comfortable, uh, versus this is not the end game, this is not where I want to be. And, uh, wrestling with that decision to go ahead and take the next step and make the investments and potentially lose some of that profitability. I'm not talking about working capital in the bank. I'm just talking about like, take a step backwards potentially. Uh, that's, that's a hard, a hard thing to, to decide. But if I didn't have the money in the bank, I couldn't even approach that question. Like, it wouldn't even be an option, right?

Absolutely. And too, like, I found on those lean months, making— like you said, it does permeate everything, and it did. I was taking sales calls and going, okay, we don't normally do this, but this time we will, because I'm like, I needed the revenue, and truthfully needed the revenue, and like made some of those choices, and then would take on more work myself rather than giving it to the team, which is like just the the opposite of everything that I knew was right and what I wanted. And so I was like, okay, we're never going to go back to that place.

Yeah. Once you get to that place, you realize I'm not going back to that place. That's, yeah, that's like going, going to Mordor, you know, like, I don't, I don't really want to go there anymore.

Yeah, absolutely. And then reflecting too of like, okay, what did I do up to this point that got us here? And how can I not repeat that? And again, I think it was I don't know, maybe I tell myself this to make myself feel better, but I think I needed to feel that and understand it in order to like learn that so that I could be a better entrepreneur, a better CEO, and better at all the things that I was doing.

No, I think you're right. I think that people can tell you all kinds of experience share and give you advice, but there's no substitute for learning a hard lesson because the painful ones are the only ones that really change you. That's the truth. I had a thought and it just completely slipped my mind. Give me a second. Ah, one of the things I have discovered that is that, that profitability can hide certain inefficiencies or things that are wrong. Let's just say that more broad than that. So in those lean months, Did you discover anything that was, you know, operationally flawed?

Absolutely. Absolutely. We made a lot of team decisions and changes after that time.

You mean changing personnel?

Yeah, changing personnel. Like really, really tough stuff. Like that whole 6-month period, probably the toughest, um, I've had as an entrepreneur. Not like starting with the financial piece and ending with going, oh no, like there are some definite things going wrong, um, overall with the team because we— I'd stepped out a little bit, right? Like I'd elevated to really being in that like visionary seat and still doing all of our business development. Like I've always remained in that space, but wasn't in the processes as much. My spouse likes to say that, like, I really have a gift with process of just being like, this is efficient, this is the way this is gonna go, here's how I want the, like, thing to be. And so I really stepped out of that for a time. And so getting back into the weeds, so to speak, and some of that from my own anxiety of just like, oh my gosh, I need to fix— get a little bit of control of of the situation and find out what's happening. Because I was doing that, went, okay, we got to make some, some major shifts, and then started down that path. Yeah, thankfully we were able to come out the other side, but there were a lot of days/weeks where I thought, okay, this is the end. Like, this is the end of this business. Like, we're not gonna be able to crawl back out. But like, thankfully we were. But yeah, it was You're right. When there was a ton of money in the bank, it was really easy just to go, okay, we're doing great. Everything's perfect. Like everyone's doing the things they're supposed to do. Like everyone's like, team's happy. Clients are happy. Let's keep going. And then, you know, as that shifted, it was like, okay, there's more here than just having some lean months financially. Um, and then finding those, those, those, those were big heartbreaks for me.

Yeah, I think one of the things that I knew for a long time, but I occasionally forget, is that no one cares. It doesn't matter how great your culture is. It doesn't matter how great your team is. No one cares about your business like you do. And the other people's money, the OPM factor, comes in there and it's not nefarious. It's not malintended, but it's just reality that your employees, it's not their company, it's not their money. So, I mean, they're not going to care about it the way we care about it.

Absolutely. And, you know, part of the issue that caused like all of the stuff, honestly, was that everyone was like, oh, we have so much to do. We have so much to do. We need to hire more people. And so I got into like, and I know like, I'm sure this isn't everybody's books, right? You read it everywhere. It's like people beget more people. And I fell into that big time of, okay, you're telling me you have a lot going on. I believe you. I know we do because I know we have a lot of money in the bank and I know we have a lot of clients. Okay, we should hire more people. And that wasn't the answer. The answer wasn't hiring more people. The answer was actually me going in there and finding out more of why and then saying like, actually, you guys aren't following these processes and we have a lot of inefficiencies that are happening. And so we were really heavy payroll in this time period. Um, and yeah, and, and it was, yeah, good lessons.

Well, that's one of the things I preach in the book is, is that, that, uh, Greg Crabtree, uh, who you know, uh, in his book Simple Numbers, uh, preaches about the, the labor efficiency ratio. And, uh, I, I think anybody that is running a business with employees has to know what that number is and has to manage it. Because if you, if you're hiring bodies and you don't have a direct path from A to B to say this employee is going to increase my gross profit by X dollars, which, which for service industry should be a minimum of 2 to 1. But like, if you're hiring somebody at $50 grand, how are they going to add $100,000 to your gross profit? You shouldn't hire them. And I've made that mistake more than once. And, uh, it, it's costly.

Yeah, absolutely. That's the sigh. And costly is exactly, yeah, how I felt that, um, that year. And Yeah. But, and who's to say? Like, hopefully, hopefully I don't do that again, but it's, it's, it's really hard. It's really tough, especially when you have people that are on your team that you trust, that you like, that you respect, that are saying the only way to solve this problem is to hire more people.

Yeah. And, and, you know, frankly, I've, I've got my, I, we just got finished with our, our annual planning and I said, said, you know, we're, we're, uh, we're growing 20%, we're growing the gross profit 20% next year, and, uh, you, you can hire one person, and, and it's a specific person for a specific position, and that's it. Like, and so hiring isn't an option. But what I, what I found is that a lot of the efficiencies don't ever happen because there's no urgency or pressing to it. But if you don't, if you know that you can't hire another body, then you're going to have to figure out a way to do it more efficiently.

Absolutely. And again, I think that it's something that I enjoy doing, the processes and efficiencies and like all of those pieces. And so now I stay a little bit closer to the process of all of that so that I can help people. So when I, when I see someone um, taking an extra long time on a project that I don't think should be taking that long, I now approach it with a sense of curiosity. Hey, let's talk. Like, let's figure out what this— what's going on here. And, and truthfully, it's like, you have other things to do in your own personal life, not just your work life, but your own personal life. And so if you're taking this much time on this project, like, you, you're missing out on some of your other— yeah, like something's wrong. It's like, let's talk and why don't you show me how you're, you know, thinking about this or how you're approaching this and then kind of give some guidance that way of, okay, well, maybe it's an experience share. Here's how I would do it because I'm not a— we're very much like, here's the project, here's the goal, here's the client goal, essentially. I don't care how you get there. As long as you get there and you have all these tools at your disposal and we have training and we have all this stuff, because I don't, I don't like to be micromanaged and I'm not going to micromanage somebody else's like workflow unless now I see in our project management system that that took a significant amount of time. And so it's like, okay, hold on, let's figure this out. And so I'm staying much closer to those processes now and hopefully helping everybody and helping them get better at their own skills too. And that's definitely a benefit that I know how to do almost every single thing that we do. I'm not very great at video editing, although I talked to the Frances Tuttle teachers up here to see if I could audit a class and they giggled. But like, I was real serious. I'm like, I feel like I need to learn this if I'm going to be, you know, leading people that are doing this. And that's the one thing that I don't know how to do. Again, going, that took a really long time. Should it take so long? I don't know, because I don't know how to do it. It would take me weeks. So if it takes someone else 5 days, you know, to do it, but you have to know enough. Yeah, exactly. You do. You have to figure out something. Um, trust people, but you gotta know a little bit.

Lindsay, uh, how do people find you if they want to learn more about My Marketing Assistant?

So LinkedIn is where I spend a lot of my time. So Lindsey Miller on LinkedIn, you'll find My Marketing Assistant, mymarketingassistant.com. We're on all the social networks, but yeah, LinkedIn is probably the best. You can always email me, Lindsey, L-I-N-D-S-E-Y, at mymarketingassistant.com.

Thank you so much for your time and your experience share and your candor. I appreciate it very much, Lindsey.

Always a joy, Christian.

Listeners, if you like what you heard, please rate the podcast. Share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Uh, if you don't like what Lindsay and I talked about, you're welcome to shoot us a message and tell us what you'd like to hear about. Until next time, ta-ta for now.

And that's a wrap for today's episode of The Profitable Creative. Until next time, you money lovers. And don't forget, Profit First for Creatives is live via Amazon. Link below.