The Dark Side of Fame: An Entertainment Lawyer's Perspective | Steve Gallegos

Hey creative, are you ready to discuss profits, the money, the ways to make it happen? The Profitable Creative Podcast is for you, the creative, how you define it. Videographers, photographers, entrepreneurs, marketing agencies, you get it. CEO of Core Group and author Christian Brim interviews industry experts, creative entrepreneurs, and professionals alike who strive to be creative and make money at the same time. Sound like you? Tune in now. It's time for profit.

Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. A special shout out to our one listener in Mountain Lake Terrace, Washington. Um, no idea where that is, but with a name like Mountain Lake and Terrace, it's gotta be pretty. Joining me today, the esteemed Steve Gallegos. Steve, welcome to the show.

Thank you, brother. How are you?

I am well. I didn't put Esquire after that. I had a joke. I was having this conversation with another guest. He was British, and I said, you know, your name just sounds like it should have a Sir in front of it. And he said, like, you know, knighthood, you can't just assume, but Esquire, you, you can. So I thought about adding Esquire to my name, but that might be pretentious. Um, sorry, I'm rambling.

You can do it.

Yes. I don't even know what Esquire means. I mean, I always see it after attorneys' names, but do you have any insight into that?

Um, you know, I, I haven't looked into that. I really haven't looked into it. It's just a tradition. It's an honorable, noble title that has been Uh, carried by lawyers, barristers, really, from, you know, the crown, uh, back in the 1800s and perhaps even more. So I know that Esquire means gentleman, and it's, uh, okay, you know, well then I definitely can't use it. Common usage.

All right, enough of this nonsense about British royalty. Um, so the reason why I invited you on this show, I, I had you on the Chris Project and we had a lovely conversation. But your area of expertise, you're a lawyer, but your area of expertise is working with creatives in LA. I know your story. Give us the Reader's Digest version of how you became a lawyer for talent.

Oh, that's a fascinating, it's a fascinating story. And I'll keep it short because, you know, us lawyers, we get paid by the word. So the more I talk, the more I earn, right? Right. I figured that's the same thing for podcast interviews, although your show might run.

I'm not paying you by the word, just so we're clear.

No, but your show might run for 2 days nonetheless. So, um, it, it started, uh, after the Marine Corps. I became a law enforcement officer in Santa Barbara, California, worked for the sheriff and then for the marshal. And the marshal was in charge of the courts. And so I was assigned to one of the courts, and the judge that I worked for as essentially a bailiff, a court bailiff, um, he was like Rusty.

You were like Rusty on the People's Court.

People's Court? I don't— I've never watched that show. Yeah, I'm more like—

Rusty was the bailiff, and he was this old man that just kind of shuffled, and you're like, I don't even know what —He's going to do something.

—I was like Rusty, but a younger version. I shuffled fast. And so, um, uh, the, the judge was a former entertainer, and he knew that, uh, I had aspirations to become an international, uh, recording artist myself. And so he suggested to me, he says, why don't you go to law school? Not only do I think you have an aptitude for it, but lawyers run the entertainment industry. So you can open doors as a lawyer that you could never open as one in a million singer-songwriter. And I thought, whoa, what a brilliant idea! I can pursue my passion, my music career, and I can wear Armani suits at the same time. Yes, dude.

And I mean, be called Esquire and be called Esquire.

Yeah, I didn't even think about that. I just— the Armani suits I was in. So I signed up, I went full board. I, um, remember, uh, leaving the marshal's office and parking cars during the day while I went to law school at night. And I did this for 3 years. And that was my segue into, you know, into law. It wasn't, you know, I, yeah, I cared about people and I wanted to fight for rights and justice and those kinds of things. But my impetus was I wanted to advance my own music career as a lawyer and have access that the average, you know, actor, singer-songwriter, musician would never have.

And so how did that work out as far as furthering your, your career in, in the entertainment business?

I think many of your listeners, and perhaps you, Chris, yourself might have watched, uh, The Wizard of Oz multiple times. Yes. Um, you remember the scene where Dorothy, Toto, and her friends arrive at Oz finally And they pull back the curtain. And what do they see? They see a scary old man with crazy hair, and he's pulling levers, making noise and blowing smoke and all this stuff. That's what I discovered the entertainment industry was. It was very abusive. It was very— it was not a nice place. It wasn't a good place for me or a bunch of my clients who came to me with stories and things that happened to them that they wouldn't bring out in public because of fear of being blacklisted. You'll never work in this industry again kind of thing. And we see this nowadays, right, popping up in the news almost daily now. But it's been over the last several years that onion skin has been peeled back layer by layer, and we're still seeing the depths of depravity that exist in the entertainment industry because You know, there's power brokers, there's people that have access, there's people that have the ability to give you, Christian Brim, the shot at stardom, whatever that means to you. And many times people are willing to do whatever, right? Let go of their defenses, let go of whatever protective measures they might have grown up with and discard every warning that their parents and friends have given them about the industry and what to look out for and things like that. I remember I was the same way. I remember going to meetings with agents and those kinds of things where they just acted really creepy. And, you know, not now, but I was very good looking at the time. And, you know, people would try and take advantage of me physically, sexually, emotionally. They would play on those, on those emotions. And so I found out Really quickly— well, it took me a couple years, actually, quite a number of years before I decided I can't be in this industry anymore. And so I had to find my way out.

It's like that song, I don't remember the name of it, Rolling Stones, is off of Tattoo You. And he said, you don't need no acting school to be a star in bed. Yeah, I mean, they knew, they knew back in the '70s and '80s, they were singing about it. Um, so you transition then into helping those people. I, I, I don't know if I told you before, my middle daughter is a figurative oil painter and she moved to, uh, West Hollywood, uh, several years ago because she thought that was what she needed to do for her career. And, um, you know, the, the gig for figurative artists is to be in galleries, right? And she'd had a couple of years under her belt, a couple of shows under her belt, so she wasn't as naive as a lot of people that show up in Hollywood. But, you know, she finally got an offer from a studio to display her stuff, and the studio owner said, well, we'll take you on, but here's the deal, you got to cut your prices. And my daughter was like, oh, let me get this straight. You want me to cut my prices and then you're going to take half? And she's like, no, no, no, no, I'm not interested. And, you know, but what she came to realize and what echoes what you're saying is that there's always some creative next in line that will take the deal to get those experience bucks, quote unquote, or whatever it is. And it's just— Hollywood grinds people out. It's like a big sausage machine, and it doesn't really matter who they put in the top, it's just all going to come out the same on the end, right? Correct. So, sorry, you decided to represent those folks. How did you do that? Like, what were the kind of things that you, did or do?

Well, it was, um, it's because I could relate to them, right? Because I was in the— I was in the middle of— I was in that war. I was on that battlefield, um, addressing the issues that many, uh, creatives— actors, musicians, writers, songwriters, authors, artists, right? Fine artists, photographers, um, they're all in that same space of, I'm a creative, I want the world to see my products. And I need access, right? Because there's, access is generally limited. And this was well before the internet, right? The internet was barely a gleam in the internet founder's eye at the time, I'm sure, right? In the '80s, '90s.

Al Gore's eyes. Al Gore's eyes. He founded it.

Is he the father of the internet? I didn't know that. He's awfully young for that. Anyway, so this was in the '80s and '90s. And there there wasn't a lot of people that were helping the creatives, right? I mean, they had access to lawyers, but here's the thing, a lot of the lawyers would be conflicted out. In other words, you want to be a lawyer, entertainment lawyer. Well, what, what is your dream? What is your aspiration? Your aspiration is to represent the studios, the record labels, the agencies, the, the power brokers. And so If I was a lawyer for Sony Records and some cat off the street, great musician, came up to me, uh, wanting advice, guess what? I'm conflicted out. I cannot give that individual my best, um, because I've been hired by the insurance company. By the— it's kind of like an insurance company, right? They do that too. Insurance companies will go and they'll hire the best lawyers just to do menial tasks, right? Oftentimes so that when a victim needs that lawyer, that lawyer is conflicted out and he cannot go and represent them against that insurance company or against that employer, right? So that was the game at the time. So, um, recognizing this, uh, I was one of those guys that was anti-corporation, and I would teach my clients. I started teaching, speaking at symposiums at the Beverly Hills Bar Association and other organizations, the National Academy of Songwriters, et cetera, the Songwriters Guild of America, how to do these things on your own, how to publish your own music, how to publish your own songs, how to create your own record label so that you could maintain your rights and you didn't have to rely so much on these big corporations that, you know, like your daughter has experienced, You know, they just want to take as much from you and return as little. Now, I want to issue a caveat here because if some company or label that has integrity and honesty and is reputable and they've been doing business like this for years, if they're listening to this, I don't want to make it seem like I'm painting every corporation or every record label or publishing company television studio or film studio in with the same brush, but there's a lot of them, um, that, uh, do participate in this kind of activity because it's profits over anything else. And like you pointed out, hey Steve, if you don't like what I'm offering, next, right? There's a line of people around the block waiting for the opportunity and waiting to do and willing to do what you might not do, right, for me, right? Yeah, in order to— just for the opportunity.

It reminds me of this quote. I don't know what band it was, but it was some band that said, I, I would rather own all of the rights and sell 20,000 albums than, you know, do a deal and sell 20 million albums, like, because of all the cuts involved. And it also reminds me of Dave Chappelle talking about his experience with Netflix. And, you know, he said he grew up in New York City, and he said, you know, he, when he was a young man, came across this money game, you know, hide the card or pick the card or whatever. And he realized after watching it and after losing, and then like he watched and he was trying to figure it out, he realized that there were shills in the crowd, right, that would come up and step up and play the game and win, that would get people to want to play. And he equated it to when he was negotiating, and having this deal with Netflix, he said, I realized that everybody at that table but me was in on the game, right? It, you know, my agent, my lawyer, like, and it wasn't that they were necessarily not representing his interests, but they were all feeding from the same trough when the trough was him, right? Correct. And I think, I think most creatives Their biggest failure is not understanding, one, their value and believing in their value, and two, understanding how the money works. Like, you, you, you know, when I first started looking at the recording industry specifically, I was like shocked how many different ways that that pie was divvied up and how the rights were, you know, allocated. I was shocked. I'm like, well, No wonder the artists get screwed because everybody's got their hand out. Exactly.

Yeah, a lot of people think they only see the COVID right? They only see— they only see Taylor Swift sold, uh, 100 million albums and she's a platinum-selling artist. Uh, you know, I don't know how many albums she sold. I don't follow her music, but she's a very talented individual and very business savvy. Um, to take the opportunities that she was given in order to make her own way into this industry. So she's now one of the power brokers. But like you pointed out, they don't see that from those 100 million albums, every party, for example, that the studio throws to promote the album, and they bring in yachts and they bring in, you know, other artists to make an appearance for the media, they give the media media, you know, carte blanche champagne and, uh, you know, caviar and shrimp and lobster and all these things. That's not the insurance— the— I keep saying insurance company. That's not the record label being nice and, and throwing you a big party. That's them doing this on your dime, because every single expense, down to the limousine, down to the gift baskets, down to whatever they throw, the crystal champagne glasses that they use, they pay the caterer for, comes out of the expenses, right? Right. The royalties, before you see any royalties, it all comes out. So yeah, you sell a million albums and you think, woohoo, I made it. No, you're getting maybe a $10,000 check at the end of the year, uh, right?

And you're looking and going like, what, what the fuck just happened to me, right?

Yeah, yeah. And that's happened so many times. But, um, Christian, you're talking about, uh, you know, the, the creatives and wanting access and, uh, pursuing dreams and fame and fortune and all these things in order to get their, uh, products and services out there and be in front of the public. There's something far deeper that goes into this equation that not a lot of people talk about. And I know you and I touched on it on our last, um, interview on Regarding my own story, and what I found out is that— and I think we discussed this too a little bit— is that whatever business you go into, whether it's real estate, medicine, law, entertainment, you have to know your why. Why are you doing this? What are you wanting from this experience? And most people don't know why, or they think on the surface level, oh, because I want money, oh, because I want people to see my art, oh, because I'm I'm a great singer and I just want to sing. That's what you hear a lot of people. I just want to act. I just want to sing. I just want to direct, whatever the case may be. Why is that? What are you after? What are you looking for? Because my own story, I found out that what I was looking for was something that I thought that the industry could give me. I was looking for love. I was looking for acceptance. I was looking for admiration. I was looking for that validation that I couldn't get or didn't think I had access to anywhere else in my life. And that's what led me into that industry that I thought gave you all that. And there's many creatives that that's where they're at. They're in the same situation. They're looking for validation and they're thinking, this is how I get it. And because they're so eager to get that validation— oh, you're so pretty, you're gorgeous, man, you— dude, you're looking— you're good looking, you could— Christopher Brim— Christian Brim, you You could be on the COVID of GQ. Are you kidding me? It's true. I could. Right? It is true. You could be. You looked like the most interesting man in America. Well, you know, it's funny you say that.

Somebody else said that I looked like Orson Welles.

Orson Welles. There you go.

Of course, I'm thinking about the Orson Welles I knew as a child, which was an older Orson Welles. And I was slightly offended.

Um, but then I went— the Orson Welles that exists is the old—

well, but I went and looked at the younger pictures of him as an actor, and I'm like, he was a good-looking dude.

So I'm like, okay, he was a good-looking dude in his old age too, right? Um, so anyway, yeah, you, you, Christian, could land on the COVID of GQ. And so if that's your dream, or if that's what you're looking for, right, that, that, um, somebody sees me, somebody hears me, what are you willing to give up? To get it, right? Make a deal with the devil. And a lot of people do. So if you're able to identify as a creative listening to this program, I don't care what creative industry or segment niche you're in, if you're looking for admiration, acceptance, love, etc., as a result of producing your art, you're in the wrong industry. There's a better way, and I implore you to find it, because otherwise you're going to open doors and give access to people to your life, to your private life that you wouldn't otherwise think of giving to anybody.

No, that's sage advice. You know, I thought about, reflected on like all of the creative genius that end up dying young, right? And I look at, you know, and Prince is probably not the best example because he was older, but like, you know, John Belushi and like all of these great talents. Um, you, you could even do Hank Williams. Like, it doesn't really matter your, your, the genre or, or the medium, but like these fascinating creative talents, right? But they had something underneath that was driving them. And it was part of their genius. It was. But in the end, the success, you know, like Chris Farley, like you have all this success and, and, and then it does, it doesn't fill that hole. And, and, and that's, I, that's what I think, you know, these people take their own lives is that's where the desperation is, right? Like, I wanted, I wanted this so badly and I gave up so much for it and it didn't get me what I want. Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now.

Or it did temporarily, right? It fed you for that moment, for that week or year or a couple of years, and then the industry moved on to the younger, better-looking version of you, right? Um, females in particular are so susceptible to this, right? Because, um, hey, Michelle Pfeiffer was hot in the '80s, and now, you know, you couldn't find her on the side of a milk carton if they printed her, right? And that's the way the industry is. And so when the applause dies down, when the stage lights go off, who are you then, right? Are you— and when the agents stop calling and the scripts stop coming in and the invitations to the galas, the red carpet events, stop coming in, You know, that's when you really have to get in touch with yourself and go, you know, who am I and why am I doing all this? And if you can't answer that, that's when you turn to alcohol. That's when you turn to drugs and sex and porn and all these other ways to cope with the idea that nobody's asking for me anymore. I'm not relevant, or am I relevant? Right. And this is the struggle. How do I stay relevant? And so they'll go on the internet and do something stupid. Just to get on the news, right? Right. Um, and it's unnecessary. It's so unnecessary. So, uh, I go back to the idea that you cannot extricate who you are from what you do, right? You, you think, well, you know, this is who I am on stage, this is who I am in my personal life. No, it's all so intertwined, and you need to identify who you are in order to be successful in anything.

Was that how your journey went when, like, you came to the conclusion that I don't want to be Julio Iglesias anymore?

Well, I never really wanted to be Julio for the sake of being Julio, right? I, as I said, I wanted that access, I wanted that, um, uh, visibility that Julio had because I thought, look at the most loved man— that was my perception— the most loved man on earth is Julio Iglesias right now, right? Because he could, you know, his records were being translated into 50 different languages. Languages, and he's performing in 10,000 different countries and, you know, in front of millions of people every year. I'm exaggerating, of course. Um, but that's what I thought, right? And so I said, I want that. Not because I wanted the lack of privacy, right? Because I couldn't— I couldn't stand going out to a restaurant and, you know, having cameras in my face all the time. And especially these days, right? Oh my gosh, you You can't do anything today. We were safe in the '80s and '90s, right? There was no internet. We didn't have camera phones. We didn't have Instagram. And, you know, every breath you took, you know, you're posting it on Instagram. We didn't have that. So we were fortunate in a sense. But I remember going to places and being a mini celebrity, if you will. I had some level of success and I would get you know, in the middle of dinner, "Hey, aren't you so-and-so? Can I have your autograph?" And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah." And, you know, it feels good for the moment. But then as a lawyer too, I would start going to events. I went to many events. And then as people started getting to know you, they would come up to me and say, "Hey, Steve, listen, do you think you can get my script to Spielberg?" Or, "Hey, man, how you doing? Here's my CD. Could you send it off to Sony Records?" for me. In other words, I was access. I represented access to many, many people. And at first it was cool because look at me, you know, all these people want me. There was a line of people waiting to talk to me everywhere I go. Right. And then you start seeing that for what it really is. It's that they don't want you for you. They want you for what they think you can give them access to. And if you could decline, if you say no, sorry, I can't help you, you need to come to my office and hire me or something like that, then all of a sudden you're dirt, right? You're worthless to them, you know, they don't want you anymore. So that was the situation. And like I said, because I saw such negativity in this industry, it was inconsistent with who I really was deep down inside. And I had to start asking that question. I didn't realize, in other words, I didn't know when I was pursuing the music stage that I was looking for respect, admiration, validation. That came later after many years of deep searching and analysis of what— why am I really doing this, right? I thought I was just after the experience. That's what I wanted, the experience. And then when the experience happened, yay, I felt elated. When the experience, the applause died down, I was like, oh my gosh, When's my next gig? The phone's not ringing. I'm not in the media today. I'm not in the newspapers. You know, all this stuff. Now you start, anxiety builds up and you start freaking out. Oh my gosh, what do I need to do? What's happening? Do I need to change my voice coach? Do I need to change my wardrobe? Do I need to get plastic surgery? Do I need to sleep with so-and-so? Right? You start just thinking all this weird stuff. And so, um, it wasn't until, like I said, that deep analysis, that deep questioning— why are you really doing this? Why do you want to be in this industry so much? And I came up with the answers, and that's when I was able, Christian, to start making a shift out. And you were an attorney the whole time?

The whole time, yeah. And so, so how, how do you practice law now?

Like, what do you work on? Um, I'm semi-retired from law. In other words, I don't keep normal office hours anymore. I work only on a referral basis. And, um, you know, so, uh, just representing people in, uh, creatives and whatever they need, whether it's, you know, but you have to be referred. I don't solicit clients anymore.

Well, so, okay, but, but like, what, what are the common things that people come to you to solve? Like, what are the issues?

I know there's a lot of media presence, slander, defamation issues that people are dealing with. Deal a lot with contracts, author contracts, music contracts, etc. And primarily what I consider is it's all around business because nowadays you're a business entity whether you're a songwriter, a painter, an artist, a singer, dancer, whatever, you're a business entity. And so what does your business entity need? Sometimes they need assistance with the setting up the business side. Sometimes they get in litigation because they don't check the boxes and cross the, you know, dot the i's and cross the t's when they're doing things, setting things up or building relationships or getting gigs, right? I know a lot of people that clients that come in and say, well, you know, I agreed to do this. And I did it on a handshake basis or no handshake basis. I just did it hoping that they would pay me or they said the agreements would be forthcoming. And now they're telling me that I don't own the rights to my material. They're telling me that I'm obligated to do this, this, that, or the other, and I don't know what to do. And so at this point, it's a little too late because now you're going to be expending money trying to reverse the entire process. And so I recommend to people that, you know, if you're going to start in this industry, you need to start right and get with a lawyer. There's plenty of good entertainment lawyers. Always ask who they represent, right? Because if you're a musical artist and your objective is to get a deal with Sony or one of the other big studios, You want to make sure that your lawyer is not conflicted out and they don't also represent those companies.

Yeah, I, I think it kind of goes back to that. You, you got to understand the business. You got to understand the game. Uh, you know, business is a game, and you, you've got to understand who the players are, how they make money. And how you fit into the equation. Um, because, you know, going back to my, my statement about all the different rights, I, I like— I, I'm— I, I was interviewing, um, I can't remember his name. It's Peter. I don't remember his last name. Um, uh, for this show, and he's like an old producer recording artist. And talking to him, I'm like, okay, so you've got the song rights, you got the music rights, you've got the recording rights, you've got the distribution rights, you've got the, you know, like all of these different layers that I was like, I didn't even think about that. It's crazy.

Yeah, the industry created it, um, you know, for themselves. It's, let's, let's break up these rights and these rights and these rights, because the more elements, the more pieces of the pie that they can get their hands on, um, you know, the better for them. And here's another, uh, suggestion that I give to, uh, to your audience listening to this, or they're listening live today, or a year from now, 10 years from now, is that you think that who you're dealing with, right, your agent, your manager, the record label, the studio gallery, the art gallery owner, um, whoever it is that you're dealing with, you think that they have your best interests in mind. And many times they do have your interests in mind, but here's the thing to keep in mind: everybody including you, including me, everybody acts in their own self-interest, period. Yes. I don't care if you're Bill and Melinda Gates and you're giving away billions of your existing billion dollars. You're doing this, yes, for philanthropy and for meaning because you're a good person, but because it fills something inside of you, right? If you do something philanthropic, something charitable, it makes you feel whatever it makes you feel. And so if you find somebody doing something nice for you, great, accept it, but recognize that that person, he or she, is also doing it much more for themselves. And so they're going to be looking out for themselves in many ways more than you. And Christian, that's one of the problems I have with the practice of law, lawyers. And I've said this from stage before and I'll say it now again publicly, is that I believe that many lawyers have a huge conflict, ethical conflict with their clients, especially on the litigation side of things. I remember when I was practicing law and I was a young associate, I learned this lesson the hard way, that I was very adept at getting issues resolved for my clients out of what's called a summary judgment motion. In other words, summary judgment is when, before a trial, before a lot of the expenses get wrapped up in a litigated case, somebody's getting sued, trial date is set, now you start discovery. You do a little bit of discovery and you find out information that could help you win the case almost immediately, right? And have the court throw it out. I was doing this successfully for many of our firm's clients. I thought I was doing a great thing for the clients. I was, until the partners called me in and spanked me.

Why? You weren't making them enough money.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I was losing the firm $100,000 because the client was only paying $15,000, $20,000 for us to win the case on summary judgment motion. And so, wow, I really had that struggle. And I, you know, for many years I practiced with that firm, but it always like ate me up that, you know, I couldn't do what was best for the client all the time, even though that's my ethical duty to do so. And so lawyers have an inherent conflict when they say, oh yeah, I can handle that case for you, it's going to cost X amount of dollars per hour, and we're going to need to do this, this, this, that, and the other. Ah man, I, I, I, I don't know how to change it, but it, it's a, it's a real problem.

Yes, and, and I've experienced it. Like, you know, first of all, in business, if you have to hire an attorney because of litigation you've already lost. Um, you know, the, the smart thing is to use attorneys to keep you from getting into litigation. Um, and, you know, once you get into litigation, uh, I hope our listeners never have to experience that, but the, the lawyers just feed off each other. And, and it's like, yeah, well, you— I mean, everybody's probably had somebody that's gotten divorced that they know. And, and like, you know, you're, they're arguing over the toaster and paying, you know, cumulatively $600, $700 an hour to do so. And it's like, this makes no rational sense. Why are you doing this? And it's because those lawyers are getting paid. And, you know, there's that emotion, like, you know, I, I want to be right. I want to prove that I'm right. I want them to hurt, right? And there are lots of lawyers that are happy to take your money if that's what you want. But, you know, the business aspect of law from a consumer, speaking here as a consumer, is preventative, not litigating, for sure.

Correct. Correct. Yeah, I like that you said that you've already lost because in many ways you have. You may not have lost the case, but you're certainly going to lose a lot of money or going to spend a lot of money, um, trying to get yourself out of something. And like you said, a lot of people, you know, pursue these things on emotion, especially in, in divorce cases and even business cases. I just, I just hate that person and I want to see them hurt. I want them to pay all their money to their lawyer. Um, I want them to suffer like I did. And if the lawyer takes that kind of case and behaves that way just to drum up the legal fees, you know, you're in the wrong profession, lawyer. You need to go out and do something else. Christian, I don't know if we discussed the last time, but I'm forming an initiative as a personal development expert that I've been serving as for a number of years now. I've always I've always had this thought in the back of my mind and I'm starting to bring it forth to the marketplace, still in development, that I believe that lawyers, like you said, we can be so much more effective and provide such a greater service to not only to our clients but to the society as a whole by learning to become personal development coaches with our clients. Mm-hmm. You have a client that comes in and, and because they did something to somebody, you represent them, you get them off, you get them, you know, a reduced sentence, you get whatever happens, right? But then they leave your office and then they go and redo and repeat the same behavior. Well, that kind of behavioral activity can be curtailed. In other words, we can put a stop to it. Why? Because we as lawyers have access to the client. We know what their mindset is. There's the attorney-client privilege that we can take advantage of. So, you know, we can help that client long term, not just a transactional experience between the lawyer and the client. But if I have a client that says to me, okay, you know, the reason I'm doing this because of drugs, alcohol, I'm mad at my spouse, I hate my business partner, I feel unfulfilled, whatever the case may be. If I'm trained in personal development analysis and coaching, I can help that individual beyond the parameters of the case. Right. And I think that if lawyers do that, if they train themselves to do that, we can help people in many ways that we're not doing now.

I love that. It'd be kind of like a physician, rather than, you know, saying, oh, you, you've got prediabetes, uh, you know, you need to, uh, start taking drugs, uh, you know, really helping them change their lifestyle so that they didn't need the drugs, right? Correct. Um, so that, that applies in a lot of different dynamics. Uh, law definitely needs help. Um, for sure.

Yeah, not bagging on lawyers, you know, just an observation. I mean, you know, lawyers exist. They're not going away anytime soon regardless of what, uh, was it Edgar— Edgar? No, no, Shakespeare. Um, kill all the lawyers, right? Uh, I'm not advising that.

I'm not going anywhere. We're not going anywhere. No, no, because you're always going to have people that disagree and, and, you know I mean, back to the business point, like, yeah, you're going to have disagreements with partners, vendors, customers, whatever. And, you know, I think being thoughtful about the other person's motivations, right? So, you know, I see this in business a lot where they form partnerships. And they're not, you know, it's usually because, well, I'm good at this and you're good at that. And so like together we'll be better than, you know, us separately. Right. But they don't work through the mechanics of what that looks like if it doesn't work out. And it, you know, that it's kind of like a prenuptial, like you need, you need to, you need to have thought those things through. But people oftentimes don't, and that applies not just to partners but to any business relationship you have of like, okay, if this doesn't work the way I expect it, what are the ramifications? What are the potential liabilities? And how do I mitigate those?

Correct. Perfectly said. Business partnerships are no different than a personal relationship, whether it's engagement, marriage, or you're starting to date somebody.

My lawyer would beg to differ with you. He said business partnerships are like marriage without the sex, so it's worse.

You're in the wrong business. You're in the wrong business. Um, So, yeah, and we need to approach it like that. And a lot of people, you know, when you talk about entering relationships where one has assets, the other one has— let's say they both have assets, one has more than the other, or they're different assets, etc., whether it's money or real estate or possessions and ideas, those kinds of things, those are assets too. If we get into a personal relationship, oh, you know, he or she is going to think I don't trust them if I ask them to, you know, let's talk about what happens if we have to go our separate ways. Or I've asked that question, you know, we should talk about what's going to happen if we have to go our separate ways in business. And the other person says, you know, they get mad or they get offended. Or they go, what, you don't trust me? Or no, it's never going to happen. And so they just quell your fears and and, you know, keep it calm for the moment until you forget about it. Um, that's a red flag. It's a red flag if someone is not willing to discuss, um, the potentiality, right? Because money, money changes people. Fame changes people. Opportunity changes people. I've been through that, and I'm a lawyer. Um, not only with my law partners, um, did that happen to me but also when I built businesses outside of my law practice, things change, right? Everybody's happy in the beginning. You're on a honeymoon and you're hugging and holding hands and singing Kumbaya. But then somebody's wife says, hey, Bob, I need you to make more money. And all of a sudden you think, or that partner comes in and says, I need to make more money, you're out. Or I want it to come from you. Or any number of dynamics.

Or my favorite is, well, that, that partner gets a divorce, and right, and, and now you're dragging the spouse into the equation, and it's like, I didn't sign up to be partner with that spouse.

Like, exactly. But if you don't have a spousal waiver, uh, in your partnership agreement where both spouses, so all spouses involved, have signed a waiver agreement that they will not claim or even suggest that they have any ownership in this particular business that you've built. They have a right to the income. Yes. Depending on, you know, what community property laws, if any, exist where you reside. They may have a right to the things that you, the benefits that you derive from that business, from that partnership, but they cannot then go in and claim a right to that partnership.

Or if they die and then that passes to them, and, you know, intestate. Yeah. And then like, oh shit, I got a new partner.

Exactly. And he or she wants to do this, this, that, or the other. They want to sell the business. Yeah. So there's just so many things involved these days, especially in the internet laws, is no different. I do get questions on the internet scope of things and where we're going with AI. That's the big thing now. Right. It's, uh, so do you do, do you do property?

Do you do intellectual property stuff or not?

Yeah, yeah, it's part of the process. Yeah, because when you represent a client, especially creatives, right, creatives, what do they have? They have money, they have creative assets, right, all the intellectual property. They may have real estate, they may have divorce issues. And so as an entertainment lawyer, you're dealing with all that stuff, right? You may not necessarily transact everything, you may farm it out to a real estate specialist, a divorce specialist, etc. But you're initially dealing with all those questions that a client has for you.

Steve, I know you're not taking any clients, but if someone wanted to find out more about you and your non-legal work, how would they find you?

Uh, thank you, Christian, for that opportunity and for that open door. What I would suggest to people, first of all, if you want to get a hold of me contact Mr. Christian Brim. Let him know, hey, I saw this Steve guy, whatever his name is, on your show, and, uh, you can put me in touch with him, right?

Steve Iglesias.

Yes, yes. Um, uh, and, um, you can put me in touch with him, right? And so you can become Christian's best friend by, by doing that. And also thank Christian for producing the show, right? For introducing us and for all of the amazing guests that Christian has had on the show previously and will bring to you in the future, because producing a show like this, I know, is not easy. It takes time, attention, effort, resources. And, you know, he's doing this for you as well as for himself, because he wants to be on the COVID of GQ magazine. So GQ magazine, if you're listening, reach out to Christian Brim because he's your next cover artist. So And if you can't get a hold of Christian because he's too busy fielding other people's phone calls and emails, it's possible trying to get a hold of Steve. Uh, you can find me on the internet. I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram @stevegsuccess, @stevegsuccess. And you can also go to my website stevegsuccess.com. And if you go to the resources page, you don't have to sign up or anything, no emails, or, you know, you can send me peanut butter cookies if you want. Because I love homemade peanut butter cookies. Um, go to the resources page where I have a lot of free content that you can easily download, audios to listen to, and just stuff to make your day better, because that's, that's what I'm here to do. I love it.

Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, Uh, shoot us a suggestion and I'll get rid of Steve. Until then, ta-ta for now.