The Entrepreneurial Journey: From Engineer to Consultant | Adi Klevit

And I did, and I created this beautiful playbook for that client. And it was like, wow, now we see how we can use it. And it totally helped them get to the next level. And I realized that there is a niche there that is needed, that entrepreneurs need the done-it-for-you creation of processes and procedures along with optimization. Along with making sure that those procedures are being implemented across the company.

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Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to the one listener in Kingfisher, Oklahoma. I've been through Kingfisher many times. It is on my way to my hometown of Enid. Nothing particularly special about Kingfisher. It's on old US 81, small town. I mean, like, I'm not going to Chamber of Commerce and say you should go there. You shouldn't. Anyway, joining me today, Adi Klevit of Business Success Consulting Group. Welcome, Adi.

Thank you, Christian. Glad to be here.

Well, I'm glad you're here. Made my day worthwhile. So tell our listeners who you are and what you do.

All right. Well, I am an industrial engineer by my profession, an entrepreneur, a podcaster, an author, and a lot of things. I'm a mother, a wife, but in this context of my business, what we do at Business Success Consulting Group is we create, document, optimize, and implement Processes and Procedures. And our mission is to empower employees to be able to do their job and produce their products and allow the business owners, the entrepreneurs, to achieve the freedom to create and to grow their business.

So, okay, there's so much already. An engineer— now engineers and accountants are cousins. They definitely have similar thought processes for sure. I will tell you that I categorically do not work with engineers. They make the worst clients in the world, but I'm sure you would make a wonderful client.

And in any case, and you know, Christian, we recorded the podcast together and I think that is our similarities. Although we come from professions that are very much can be put in a little square and not get outside those boundaries. We are creatives and we understand how to think outside the box. And I think that's what we really found in common when we recorded our episode and we got introduced. And that's probably why I'm here now doing this episode, because we're going to have that interesting conversation.

Yeah. And I think introduced— you identified yourself as an industrial engineer. I hate identifying as an accountant or CPA. People always ask, What do you do? And my patent to answer as little as possible, because I don't want to say I'm a CPA, because like you said, people have a perception of what engineers or CPAs are, and it's not what I feel like I am. So I, I, I just don't like to identify it, but makes sense. This whole convergence or overlap of the creative and the analytical to, to kind of be reductive and make it that simple. I don't think it's that simple, but it. For this conversation is where the magic is made. Like a lot of creative entrepreneurs that I work with and, and talk to, the analytical components of a business are oftentimes difficult to nail down. Things like processes, for instance. I mean, like, that's just not the way their brains work, but it's uber important if you're going to grow and scale a business to have processes. So what is your experience working with creative entrepreneurs and, and helping them create those processes?

So my experience is that some of them will say, I don't need processes. I'm a creative. Some of them will say, I welcome processes because it helps me be more creative. And the second one is really, I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer, but that is the path to take. And those that are creative or consider themselves to be creative, but are saying, I don't need processes. I feel like they're going to stop my creativity. When we start working together, they go through this change or switch or mindset shift to see that creating the processes and putting them in place is what is going to get them the freedom to create and the freedom to do what they want to do and what they do best, which is to create.

Yes. And as you were saying that, you know, really the processes aren't necessarily for you. I mean, you have to work within them, but the processes are for the people that you are going to involve in your creative endeavor, right? Like, I mean, sure, you can use processes for yourself, and if it's just you, It will help you, but to me, the processes and the way I have been able to use processes is to get those things off of my plate that I don't want to do or that I'm not particularly good at or are low value to allow me to do what I do best.

That is very true. It's exactly right. It's allowing you to do what you do best. So if you have a concern of why do I need processes, or is that gonna limit my creativity? I invite you to ask the question in a different way. If you do not have processes, what limits are you putting on yourself? What limits are you putting on your creativity? What limits are you putting on your creation? And how can you change that? So you have more time and ability to create.

Yeah. In that regard, I think the processes, rather than stifling creativity, are actually supportive or liberating you to creativity. I think it's kind of like— I can't remember the author, but it was maybe Jocko Willink or some former SEAL that he was talking about discipline being liberating. And whereas a lot of people think of discipline in the negative, in it restricts you, but he goes through the argument that like, no, discipline actually frees you. It actually gives you the freedom because it takes those things off of your plate.

Right. And it really depends on what kind of discipline, because if you look at the creative, let's say for instance, they, they experience throughout their lives, people stopping them from creating. Or, um, there were different circumstances that they felt that they have to switch their career and do something else that is more in alignment with what society thinks that they should do and not really allow them to create. So you have all that external discipline that you associate as something that is wrong, incorrect, restricting. So then the pendulum swings all the way to, I don't want any discipline. I don't want the procedures. I don't want processes. I want people to do whatever they want to do. But then again, it's just like that pendulum is swinging too far to the other side and extremes of both sides are not productive and I'm not going to get you to where you need to be. So we are looking at, analytically looking at what do you need to do in your business in order for it to grow and thrive and do well. And if you had a set of procedures and processes, that are optimized, that are predictable, that are consistent, would it allow you to produce more or produce less and being profitable at the same time? Because you don't have to be a creative artist and be starving. That's not the idea. That's why they're working with you, Christian, because they have to understand that it doesn't go— it doesn't have to be that way. You can be very successful as a creative. But what you need to do is to adopt the principles of business and then put your creative forces on top of it so you can be successful.

I couldn't have said it better myself. So let's talk about your entrepreneurial journey. Did you work as an engineer?

I did start my work, my career as an engineer in a consulting company, and I worked at several international— I worked at 2 big international consulting companies. I gravitated toward the management part, toward process improvement, toward increasing efficiency. And I always had that entrepreneurial streak in me. I mean, I started my first business when I was in high school and throughout the years I also did, I mean, I had a bookkeeping business. I had consulting that I was doing for my own, on my own. I managed companies for clients. So I definitely had that hands-on experience. And also when I was working for the consulting companies, I got promoted to become an executive. So I ran people, I fired, I hired, I made decisions. You know, I know how to run people. I know how to be an executive. So it's not theoretical. I actually have, I had hands-on experience. And then in 2011, I decided that I would like to start my own company. And that's what I did. And at that time I started as a general business consultant. I was very good at it. I have the ability to spot situations, to look at things, to understand things very well, come up with strategies and help my clients with it. And I was helping them implement what we came up with. And I would tell my clients, you know, it's, uh, you need processes, you need processes. You need processes. Week after week when we met and they said, yes, okay, but I am too busy selling. I'm too busy doing this. I'm too busy doing that. I can't, I can't, I can't. And it just, it didn't happen. So then I asked one of my clients one day, well, what about if I do it for you? Really? So yeah, absolutely. Roll up my sleeve and let's do it. And I did. And I created this beautiful playbook for that client. And I was like, wow, now we see how we can use it. And it totally helped them get to the next level. And I realized that there is a niche there that is needed, that entrepreneurs need the done-it-for-you creation of processes and procedures, along with optimization, along with making sure that those procedures are being implemented across the company. And tying it in to the other management tools, making sure that they are, that we have the KPIs that are measuring the success of the processes, making sure that each employee knows what the processes are, making sure that we have a process for reviewing those processes and keeping them up to date, et cetera. So all of that are You know, that led me to specialize in what we do today. So from being a general business consultant, we are specializing in process documentation and I have a team that works with me of consultants and very highly skilled technical writers, admin support, marketing, et cetera. So we became a group. So therefore Business Success Consulting Group.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. So if I'm a, a I'm a solopreneur and let's say I run a boutique marketing agency or I'm a videographer and I'm listening to you talk about processes. I'm like, that sounds awful. I don't even like the words. How do I take what you teach and start implementing that concept into my, my business where I don't have employees. I might have a couple of independent contractors, but like I do all the work, right? So how do you apply those principles if I'm, I'm a one-man band?

Good question.

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So the main question is, do you want to stay a one-man band or do you want to grow? Are you doing okay as you are right now, or do you suffer from the peaks and depressions that come with the business, right? One day you have a lot of work, then you produce the work, you don't promote, then you don't have work, then again you have work, etc. So the roller coaster ride of being a solopreneur, you have to ask yourself, do you want to continue like that or does something need to change? And if something need— if there is a need of change, then you need to do something about it. That was my journey. I started as a solopreneur. It was me. But then I realized very fast that because I'm good at what I'm doing, I'm getting a lot of referrals. People want meet with me, people want to sign up as clients, and there was a limit to how much I can serve my clients, interview them, and also write the processes, etc. It just doesn't— it's impossible. So it was a decision. When I made that decision that I want to grow, that's when I did what I teach our clients to do in terms of creating processes. So to answer your question, if you are a solopreneur, You have to look in the mirror or you have to sit down with a piece of paper and ask yourself the question, do I want to grow? And if so, why? Why having processes are important? For me, it was important because I knew that I couldn't delegate without having processes. It was important for me because I knew that the number one priority is my service to my clients. And I knew that when I take ownership, when I'm consulting my clients, the service is going to be superb, and I'm gonna get great results every single time. The question is, if I want to expand and I just want to wear the CEO hat, how do I clone myself, duplicate myself, so there are still, there is still the service is at a high level that I'm hiring people and I can train them and they will know what to do, that I know that my clients are going to be 100% satisfied. I know that there is going to be consistency, etc. So that those are the reasons. So you have to decide why, why do you want that? And then look at everything that you do as a solopreneur, make a list and then identify where and you should actually give it a numeric value, like a dollar amount. How much do you, does it actually cost you to produce what you're producing and where are you getting the biggest return on investment, and note those actions that you're doing right now that if you had a well-documented process, you will be able to pass it on to somebody else. That's how I would start.

Yeah, I, I think that's sage advice. I talk about it in my book about the Pareto principle, which for the listeners that haven't read the book and aren't familiar, Pareto was an Italian economist that did a study, I believe in the 19th century, and wanted to determine how much of the land was owned by how many people. And essentially what he discovered was that 20% of the people in Italy owned 80% of the land. And you know, this 80/20 paradigm is really a function of human behavior. There's always people that rise to the top. It's just human nature. But the way we apply it in business is 20% of what the entrepreneur spends their time doing produces 80% of their profit. And it may not be exactly 80/20, it might be 70/30, 60/40. It's some split, but some small amount of work that you do actually produces the most results. And I think what Adi is describing there with making a list is saying, okay, identify those things that make you the most money. Like, where do you bring the most value to the equation? And then get rid of the rest of it, automate it, delegate it, or eliminate it.

Exactly.

Because, you know, and, and this is also a function of the mind, we tend to gravitate to predictability. And so what happens for the entrepreneurs and what happened in, in my case is that rather than create the processes, rather than go through that exercise and identify the things that are most valuable that I do, I default to what's comfortable and gives me a predictable result, which is I'm going to go do some work that I really shouldn't be doing. Like, there's— I don't need to be doing that work, but it gives me a predictable result. So I'm going to gravitate to it.

That's right. It's the comfort zone. It's the what you know that you can do. Let's say, for instance, the photographers. So, you know, you can edit, right? I mean, let's say you shoot a wedding and now you sit in and you edit the pictures. You know, you can do that. It's predictable. It's actions you have done many times. You're probably very good at it and you have it explained or excused that, you know, no one can edit like you do. And it is the most important thing, important day for that couple. That's what they paid you for is the final product, but you're doing it and you're going through the motions and you're doing it and you're putting your creativity into it. However, if you actually identified the actions to be done in order to grow the business, Probably going out to a networking event that will probably take 20% of your day. Maybe the editing is 80%, but 20% of your day can be spent on the networking will create more opportunities, but it's a little bit more uncomfortable. It is more tedious. You now have to show up. Less predictable. It's less predictable because you don't know what will happen. You have to show up with your best smile. You have to dress up. You can't just sit there. With your hoodie and, you know, and in your room and drinking coffee and editing. No, you have to like show up. So it's a lot more effort that is required and it's easier to gravitate towards the other one. But to that point, if you had a process, even in your head on how you do networking, you take a little bit the predictability out of it. Why? Because if you define ahead of time, what is the end result of you going to a networking event? Then you are able to achieve success every single time. For instance, if you know that you're going to a networking event and the result is not necessarily a new client, because it's not. When you go to a networking event, that's business development. You are developing the relationship. So maybe your final result of the purpose of going to a networking event is to make 3 new connections that you haven't made before, or help 3 new people, or have a great conversation with 2 people. Whatever you define it is that is realistic and you go and do it, then you will have success. It will be a win. And then you have a process of following up. So let's say you talk to 3 people. Good. What are you gonna do with those connections? You send them a follow-up email. Great meeting you. I know you needed help with this and this. Let me introduce you to that person. Or with that person, you do this. So you have a process of following up. And then maybe 2 weeks later you follow up, hey, you know, I connected you with, I know, I know you needed, you wanted a connection with a great accountant or with somebody that can help you with your profit. I introduced you to Christian. Did you two connect? There is an ex— there is definitely a reason for more communication. But if you don't have a process or you didn't never define yourself that process, then you go to the networking event. Maybe it is successful. Maybe it is not. And then you're right. It's a waste of time because then you never follow up. So nothing happens. So why would I go to more networking events? Right. You see, therefore you have to identify the value of your actions and then identify the actual actions, which is basically the process.

Yeah, that's a great point. You can bring some order to the unpredictability by defining the success and the outcomes that you want. And I was talking to a videographer earlier today and I use the example, I started doing woodworking again and I am not good at woodworking. I create ugly things. But when I set aside time to go work in my woodworking, I start to hear my brain say all of the things that I could be doing otherwise, that I should be doing otherwise. Well, like you need to, you know, go to the grocery store or whatever. And I realized that that's my brain working against me because my brain wants to keep me where it's comfortable. And the woodworking is uncomfortable because I'm not great at it. I have a limited amount of experience. But once I realized that those, those are just my brain trying to keep me from trying something new or doing what I want to do, I can go through that. And to your point, you know, setting an expectation, well, you know what, I just want to do X in the shop. That's all I want to do. Like, if I achieve that, then I have had success, as opposed to I, I don't really have a clear goal of what, what's going to come out of this, and I may get frustrated because I do it wrong, or I, I don't know how to do something, and so I quit. I think that is really good advice to when you're going into something that you're not entirely comfortable with and doesn't— don't have a predictable outcome is to define that success for yourself.

Right. And then you have success. Otherwise, you know, if you don't achieve, if you don't put a goal there, how do you know you will achieve the goal?

Right. So I want to pivot back to, you are a podcast and an author. How did, how did that come about?

I'm interested in people. I love hearing what they have to say. And, uh, my podcast actually started during the pandemic. I used to do a lot of in-person networking, meeting a lot of people. And as you know, we couldn't do that anymore. And I got interviewed to somebody's podcast and I go, wow, this is great. I love being interviewed on a podcast, but even more so I love interviewing people for my podcast because I get to know, to learn about them. I'm fascinated by people, about what they do. How they think, what they think, you know, their opinions. I learned so much from it. So I started doing it and then, uh, we're probably right now over 300 episodes. I do it consistently now for years and I've had a chance to meet wonderful people. I like to tie everything around processes. So whatever their expertise is, whatever their The story is we always come up with some kind of a process that they applied in order to achieve their success. I then write a blog based on the podcast. And I wrote a book about how to, how systematizing your business will increase the profitability. And I'm in the process of writing my second book about knowledge transfer, best practices of how to correct knowledge transfer.

I love it. That's, that's a huge thing. Yeah. So you were talking about processes and One of the things that came up for me as I was listening to you, as far as implementing Profit First in businesses, a lot of people say something to the effect of, well, I don't have any profit, therefore I can't implement Profit First. And I'm like, no, you've got it backwards. Like, you don't have profit because you haven't implemented Profit First. And so I think there's probably some similarities in what you see of like, I can't implement processes because of X, like I don't have enough time.

Yeah, I don't have a process. I hear that. I'm laughing because I didn't know that you, I mean, I can imagine it makes sense, but I hear that, well, we know we can't document because we don't really have a process. And my answer to that is, of course you have a process because what is a process? It's a series of actions that we do. So whatever we do, Maybe you don't have a documented process, you don't have a streamlined process, but you have a process.

Right. And for someone to use that as an excuse to not do the work is thinking about it backwards, right? Like, I don't have time to document the processes. No, you don't have time because you haven't documented your processes.

That is exactly right. And what I'm saying is, you know, it's all in our minds, the way we think about things. Things. When somebody says to me, I don't have a process, I can't figure out how to document it, or I can't figure out how we're going to create a process out of it, or we can't document it, well, something is wrong, right? Just like Deming was, you know, if you don't have a process, you don't, you're not doing, I mean, everything can be put into a process. So the point being is that you're just looking at everything together, just jumbled and mixed and disordered and in confusion. So we need to basically take piece by piece by piece and string it and figuring out what are the step-by-step actions that are being done every single time in order to create the same result. Now, what you put on top of it can be different, right? It can be, Let's say for instance, um, you know, the process is mix the brush, mix the colors, then take the brush, put a brush in the, in the cup with the color, and then paint. Now what color it is can differ, can, can be different. If you're more creative and you don't wanna write a process of what color to, to choose, fine. You can just have the freedom to do there, to do it. Maybe if you have a marketing agency, you do want to create a color palette with agreement with the client. So that's part of the process. Each client will have their own palette. Then the way you put it, you mark the streak on the canvas is different every single time, unless you are more, unless it's not just free art, but it's more like a graphic design or whatnot. It has more of a, it's more structured. So there has to be a balance between instructions, steps, and the actual creativity. But in order for you to put your time all the time into the creative part of it. You have to identify the common steps so you don't have to even spend time thinking about it, but you are performing them consistently every single time. Yeah.

So like when we implemented EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, one of the tools in there is to create procedures. And I think where we went wrong with that was two things. First, we tried to be too detailed. And two, we didn't involve, we tried to optimize rather than just document, right, up front. And we didn't, in that optimization, involve the people that were going to use the process. And so, basically, what we ended up with was a whole bunch of documentation that no one used, right?

And that's the worst. That's the worst. Yeah.

Right. So the way we did it the next time around was we didn't do detail. We started with this idea, which is again from EOS, is not something we came up with, was give a, a, a process of like, if I turned this over to another professional in that space that understood the term, like marketing, like, okay, they're a marketer, they understand the concepts, they understand the terms. But you give them like a 1, 1.5-page process of this is how we do things. And so you're not going into the detail of these are the tools we use or even color palette or messaging. You don't go into a lot of the detail because that person is going to use that process to flesh that out. And there may be more detailed process that come out of that, but don't start there. What do you say to that?

Yes, absolutely. You brought up the two of the points that people make mistake at is trying to optimize before you document and going into too many details. Now, details are important. And we work with many companies that implement EOS. You know, I work with many implementers and they refer me to their clients and Because people that already implementing EOS, they know that processes are important. We always start with the high level. We do a high level process mapping. We do the design, the planning, because this is, somebody told me today, asked me, how many times do you build a house? At once? He goes, no, twice. First of all, it's planning on the paper and then you build the actual house. And that is also true for processes. So that's why we always map it high level, because when we map it high level, we can see the big picture and we can identify the areas that we need to document and some areas that we don't, because we all have limited amount of time. So if we decided we are going to spend, let's say we have 4 months to complete this project. And if we decided we're gonna spend all, you know, document really in detail, everything in the marketing department, we're never gonna move to the rest of the departments. So my take on it is like, let's do it high level, identify the steps. Now I do think the details are important because that's part of the knowledge transfer because you are accumulating things in your company that is your legacy, that is your knowledge. Now, to your point, if it's something that you can learn outside of your company, then you don't have to document it. For instance, if I'm documenting the accounting procedures, I'm not going to document how to create a new customer in QuickBooks because that can be a tutorial out there that you can do, or if you're a bookkeeper, you know how to create a new customer. However, the way that if you have a naming convention for your customers, then you do document that because what you want to do, if your bookkeeper right now wins the lottery and leaves, you bring somebody new, that is competent as a bookkeeper. You don't want them to start figuring it out, right? They just have the instructions. This is how our name convention. Good. Or let's say, for instance, you invoice 2 times a week and that's what works for you. Good. Document that. So best practices, the why behind things definitely needs to be documented because those details are your knowledge and that's why you want to transfer and don't lose it. So definitely start in high level and then work your way down from there and document existing state first and then optimize and make the changes. Why? Because that is change management 101. If you do not have it documented and you can, then you can't really measure your change against something that already exists and you can introduce too many changes. And then you don't know really what created the, what effect it created. So sometimes you can have a process, then introduce 3 things and you go, oh, none of them work, but that's not true. Maybe one of them worked, but the other 2 counter it. So now it looks like it didn't work. But if you actually document what you have, know exactly what you're going to change and why. I always ask my clients, you know, we always define why we want to change it. What problem are we trying to solve? Is it that important to solve it? And what is the outcome that we expect? So again, we have measurements to measure if the change is good or not or successful. One thing at a time. Try it out. See if it works or doesn't work and continue from there.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes. To purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. One of the things I think for solopreneurs, so I think we all have in our journeys what my friend Drew Goodmanson calls entrepreneurial inflection points, and it's where we have to make a decision to do something different. Like, like you so eloquently put, do you want things to be as they are? If not, you've got to change something, right? And I think the first inflection point that most entrepreneurs get stuck on is the idea of delegating. You know, that may show up as, as hiring their first employee or even just taking things off their plate and using subcontractors to do, do that work. And I think You kind of alluded to it. I think the biggest impediment is this mindset that I'm the only one that can do it, like no one can do it like me. Well, the goal is not to do it like you, right? It's not like everybody has to just become another Adi or another Christian and do things exactly the way you did them. The point is, do you have a clear outcome and a clear expectation, a standard, a quality standard, like What is it that you want them to produce and agree to that, and then give them the freedom and latitude to use their professional judgment to obtain those outcomes. Exactly. But that mindset shift, you know, frankly, most, most business owners never get past it. You know, they don't truly delegate. They hire people to fill in the gaps and the cracks. The overflow, but they don't really systematize it and say, okay, I want you to do this 80% that I don't like to do, is not profitable for me to do, and here are my standards, here's what I want the work product to look like, and, you know, then truly letting that person do the job.

That is correct. You're absolutely correct. You know, if you look around, the successful businesses are the ones that delegated. Are the ones that each person has their own hat. They know what, what hat they're gonna wear. They do it. They are measured. They are responsible for their position. They are held accountable. But it's, it can be that frantic, I'm doing everything, nobody can do it. It just doesn't work that way. Success, if you look at successful people, they don't operate that way.

No, and in my case, I think it was honestly hubris. It was false pride that for me to say that no one can do it as well as I can. Well, that's just a false statement. Like, that's not true, but I believed it, you know, like I believed it to be true.

Absolutely. And I believed it too until I realized that, okay, it's probably I did not teach somebody else how to do it the way I want it to be done, or I didn't identify What is it that I do that others do not do? And that is where the shift really happened for me. It's listening to— I actually hired, when I hired a COO, I had her listen to my calls that I do with my clients and identify what is it that I'm doing there that we then need to teach the rest of the consultants. So some of it was, you know, she came up with, you're asking a lot of questions. Good. What type of questions? This, this, and that. Okay, good. So then we created training for the rest of the consultants. You know, when you are on a call with a client, you have to ask a lot of questions. And here is a list of examples of questions. Not that they have to be rote about it, but for instance, one of the things that I ask clients is, why are you doing this? What are the best practices? What's working for you? What is not working for you? Right? So there are questions that I was asking that led to the success of correct documentation. So now we have it documented and our new consultants or consultants that come on board, they are trained on how to do that. That is an example. So there is, there is nothing you can't really train. It is really the mindset. It's several things, Christian, is really looking around and seeing who is successful and who is not and what is the common denominator of success. And that's why another answer why I like my podcast, because I bring on entrepreneurs and thought leaders like yourself that work, that you're successful and work with successful entrepreneurs or have seen success and not so, so many and not successful and can differentiate and ask them what is the common denominator of success. I had somebody on my podcast this this morning, super successful entrepreneur, and he said, I'm working myself out of a job. I put— I hire correctly. I'm not afraid of firing the people that are not the right people. I give them their mission and tell them to go and hold them accountable. That is exactly right. So you need, you need to have the mindset. Do you want a business, or do you want to just continue to be a worker without a direct boss other than yourself? So it's how you want to run your business that will determine which direction you're going to go.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

And you know, Christian, one thing that I think, one thing that will resonate with you is that people say, well, I don't want to delegate. What I hear people say, I don't want to delegate because it will cut my profits or hire somebody is very expensive. I would, my profits will suffer.

It could be true if you didn't take that opportunity, that extra bandwidth, that extra time that extra energy and do something with it.

Exactly. It's an investment, right? So it's not— if you're just hiring and continue, just like to your, to your example, if you hire somebody but never let go and you're still running it with them, it's a waste of your money. You might as well— you're right, just wear their hat and, and just do it yourself and get paid for it. But if you truly want to scale, if you truly want to expand, then you need to identify What is it that you're going to do with your extra time in order to generate more income and more profits?

Exactly. Adi, how do people find you and learn more about working with you?

So the best, the easiest way is to find me on LinkedIn. So it's Adi Klevit. You can also call or text. We have a number in the office that you can text as well. It's 503-662- 2911. Visit our website bizsuccesscg.com, and my email is adi@bizsuccesscg.com. I'll be happy to answer any questions, and I would love to hear from the listeners.

And we'll put all of that information in the show notes. Adi, thank you very much for your time and your experience share. It's very much appreciated. Audience, if you like what you hear, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you hear, uh, shoot us a message back, let us know what you'd like to hear, and I'll replace Adi. Until then, ta-ta for now.

And that's a wrap for today's episode of The Profitable Creative. Until next time, you money lovers, and don't forget, Profit First for Creatives is live via Amazon. Link below.