The Power of Authenticity in Business | Michelle Griffin

Hey creative, are you ready to discuss profits, the money, the ways to make it happen? The Profitable Creative Podcast is for you, the creative, how you define it. Videographers, photographers, entrepreneurs, marketing agencies, you get it. CEO of Core Group and author Christian Brim interviews industry experts, creative entrepreneurs, and professionals alike who strive to be creative and make money at the same time. Sound like you? Tune in now. It's time for profit.

Welcome to another edition of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. A special shout out to our one listener in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Uh, that I think is where all the smart people at Harvard live. Uh, so, you know, that's a good thing if they're listening to the show. Joining me today, Michelle Griffin of Brand Leaders. Welcome to the show, Michelle.

Christian, I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for having me.

Well, thank you for coming onto the show. So, uh, brand leaders, what is it that— I mean, I'm assuming that's personal brands. Is that what you work with?

Yeah. And I go a little bit deeper because in my 5+ years in business, been working with a lot of personal brands, founders, creatives. I know you have a lot of creatives that listen. The one thing everyone says, build your brand, get out there. And I get that. But the problem is I go deeper. I help you communicate your brand. I actually created a framework called Own Your Lane where you really dive into what makes you different so that you stand out. So that's what we do. We help founders, experts, entrepreneurs really get clear on who they are, what they stand for, and how they're different and communicate that so the right people notice them, hire them, pick them, all the things. So it's a beautiful 4-step process that helps you confidently say what you do so you can get the right opportunities.

Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick your brain and get some free advice because I'm in the process of— let me back up and tell this story because it needs some context. I decided to write a book. I wrote a book. I published it a year ago, a year and 3 months ago. And then I went on some podcasts to pitch it, and I didn't like the conversations I was having. So as any good entrepreneur does, he scratches his own itch. And I said, I'll just start a podcast. All of this without having any really cohesion. I had a— I launched a website, a personal website for the book and the podcast. It's awful. It's a WordPress site that I didn't design and I need to redo it. And I'm averse to personal branding. And I've said this on the show with other people that do branding. Because I grew up in an age where you didn't promote yourself. Like, that's— that I just— the belief that I had was if you were good enough, people would talk about you. And if you weren't good enough, people wouldn't talk about you. And that's okay too. And so I really— I had a hard time with this idea of personal branding until my brand was out there. And then I'm like, well, that's crap. I don't want it. So I've got to redo it. And I guess that's what I've kind of come to the conclusion is that every person, sadly, every business has a brand. So you can't avoid it. It's a question of whether you're going to control it or not. Would you agree with that?

Well, yeah, I mean, I can— I'm with you. I don't even like the term personal branding. It's misused, misunderstood, misguided. It's fluffy. It's all about, you know, you go to the Instagram side of the influencers. That's not where we're here. I work with experts. Thought leaders, speakers, authors, you know, all the people who are expertise, expertise-led businesses. And it's— think of it just as communicating who you are. I get it. Back in the day, my mom used to say, a good product doesn't need advertising. And yeah, I believe that until, you know, the digital age when there are so many of us who do the same thing, you know, 8 billion people in the world, 4— half of them online. And now we have AI controlling content and clogging everything, right? So the only differentiator is being human and us. And it's just us communicating who we are, how we're different, and who we're for, and most importantly, the problem we're solving. That's what business is, right? For the most part. And so I work with my clients to get really clear. I'd say 90-something percent of them are like you. I hate personal branding, but I know the importance of getting out there. So when you think of it, and I did a TEDx talk about 3 months ago, it's not online yet, at my alma mater, FSU. And that was the whole thing, how to boldly put yourself out there. And I had this Brilliant Reset. I'm not going to give the punchline, but when you think of it as like you're getting out there, Christian, because you have something, especially with the Profit First Creatives, helping creative entrepreneurs profit from their creativity and doing what work they do best, that needs to be out there.

Absolutely. And I'm comfortable with that. Like, there's not— I don't have any problem in promoting the message, right? Um, but, but the, the problem is that it, it's It's tied to me. And so you can't separate them. And I mean, I guess embracing the idea that it shouldn't be separated. But then I've also run into this issue, and I'm very curious how you handle this with your clients, is how much of yourself to reveal. And in the sense that I think the more the more authentic you are, uh, I think the more polarizing you can be. And, and in the sense that you may be attracting the people that you want to attract, you're definitely going to turn off the people that you don't resonate with, right? And, you know, I'm— see, this is part of what I, I shouldn't be talking about, but like, uh, I'm one of those people, like, if you're a racist, I would much rather you say your racist stuff so I know who you are rather than you just hiding that you're a racist and I'm not real sure whether you're a racist or not, right? But that's kind of the shell game that we are in this society where you're not real sure how authentic— is this the real Michelle that I'm getting or is this the facade, you know? So how do you handle that? Where do you draw that line of like, what do you say that is potentially offensive? And I'm not talking about racist things, but like controversial things or things that people definitely have very definite opinions about.

Well, you don't have to be polarizing. You know, you don't have to be political or any of those hot topics to be polarizing. I don't even like the word polarizing. I think you just stand for something. And I work with people who are dealing with injustices in their industry. They have a better solution, a better way, or like your book, you have a different point of view. I would say a standout point of view, right? I don't really work with people like you say, or that polarizing. I'm working with experts who are getting out there. So I say just have this point of view. It doesn't have to be so outlandish where people like, oh my gosh, you know, but you should, you should have a point of view. And the goal here, Christian, if I went to Oklahoma and I met you at the local wherever restaurant or wherever you'd be hanging out, I'm like, oh my gosh, you're exactly like this interview here. That's what we want. So just be yourself. And like you said, if this person is like that, then their cells tap out to that. You go your way, I stay with my lane. That's why I call it own your lane. And that's the thing. And it's so much easier when you don't. And there are so many people who have to be buttoned up and pretend to be a a certain way, like on LinkedIn, where we met. And then it's nauseating and it's not sustainable. So no one needs that. We don't need polished perfect anymore, right? Like the world needs real and relatable, especially now.

Yeah, no, I 100% agree with that. I think that is— you're already seeing the backlash to that where I think the authentic connections are going to become even more valuable because there's so much trash and garbage out there that where, you know, you just don't know whether that's real. And that's, you know, that is, if you don't have a, if you don't overcome that trust barrier, you can't sell anything. And, and, you know, trust used to be like assumed. It was table stakes. Like if you were in the marketplace, you weren't polluting rivers if you were manufacturing, or you weren't exploiting children to make shoes, or whatever it was. I mean, it was just assumed that— now it's almost the exact opposite. It's like everybody's skeptical in this kind of— or maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just skeptical.

And I'm like, well, especially with AI, it can overtake your voice, your video. And people, you know, you cannot believe— especially after there was this one incident that went viral, I'm not even going to mention it, over the weekend. We all know. And, uh, are you talking about the couple Yeah, the astronomer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, and I, I didn't comment on it. I was just watching how it all unfolded from a, you know, my background's in PR, have a master's in PR. So I was looking as a crisis communication. I didn't comment because I don't care about all that. But it just goes to show you the misinformation that floods. People take that as gospel and blah, blah, blah. And so you cannot believe what you read online, just because it's online. And so that's why I'm really, really into, you know, really small-knit communities, podcasting like this, people-first human connection events where we actually see, tangibly see you. And I think we're going to be going to that more because we can't trust who's online. I'm not saying we're not going to be online. I also think social media is a little bit diminished. It's pay-to-play. Organic reach is really hard, you know. So I feel like there's a need to go back to basics. You know, there were trillion-dollar economies that existed before social media and even the internet, right? So I'm not saying we go to the dark ages, But let's go back to a little bit of the old school stuff so we can see the people and feel them.

I think the in-person is going to be more important. Yeah. You know, there's some kind of connection, like when, you know, the way we interact with people, video is great. I mean, this technology is great, but there's no substitute for sitting and breaking bread with someone. And you get the whole enchilada of experience that maybe you don't even consciously know, but you get all of the micro— what's the word I'm looking for?

The nuances about them. Like communication is 93% nonverbal, right? Exactly. Yeah.

So, yeah, yes.

So I just geek out when I can meet people. In fact, after 5 years doing my business remote, because I started in the middle of pandemic or before the pandemic, I went and got invited, pitched, and got accepted to a growth accelerator downtown. I usually am there, but I had to start being in person for my office because it was just draining me. And I have come alive even more just seeing other founders, interesting people. And I think if we can, in our day-to-day, if you're a creative entrepreneur listening to this or whomever, you know, and you're working remote, like find a place, not even just a Zoom chat, find a place to go talk to people. It will just, even if you're an introvert, like I get pushback, people like, but you're an extrovert, Michelle. I'm like, no, I feel like we need that human connection. I'm not saying you have to go hang out with them, but there's just something, this unseen energy that really will help you rethink, I think, reset if you're kind of in the dumps.

Absolutely. I think about I've been a member of Entrepreneurs Organization for 13 years, and I had been invited by a client to one of their meetings. I knew nothing about the entity or the organization. I didn't know who the speaker was. I don't remember who the speaker was, but I remember when I walked into the room, there was an energy, and I was like, I don't know what these people are about, but I want to be part of it. And that is what you're talking about that you get in real life that you cannot replicate digitally.

Absolutely. And that's one of the reasons I've really drilled down this year in my business is really helping, you know, these expert brands I work with, founder, whoever, just get really clear in how they communicate what they do. Because when you are armed with this, and I'm not, I'm kind of against like the elevator pitch or I even cringe. I'm trying to ban the word, so what do you do? Because that makes people Recoil, just starting conversations. And that's how trust, relationships, collaborations, businesses, whatever, they all grow that way, going back to basics. And so, I really, drilling down on my Own Your Lane, my third book now is actually going to be that framework for communications take on it so that you know exactly how to talk about what you do so the right people get you and buy you. And when you're armed with that, Christian, it's so much like the light, the clouds parts, the light shines, you get it. And you feel stronger in who you are and you're able to get out there more.

Okay. Let me pivot and ask you how you said you started this business 5 years ago. What did you do before 2020?

Yeah. So for a long time, we'll say I was executive director of a professional association pre, before that I was in PR and communications. And then I morphed into a law firm marketing director. And then that morphed into— I started from the ground up with, you know, the law firm, this professional association, and the very buttoned-up B2B property insurance legal world. And I led a team where we had the highlighter. Of course, I built the membership, but we also had a 2,000-person conference in Orlando every year, which is super cool. I love that. And then I would also travel quarterly to other events to rep the organization. So when I was talking about those events, those are my lifeblood. I'm so glad to get them back, but I'm here to help people connect and communicate better. Okay. And that's through a brand, if you want to call it, that's how the world perceives you, how you communicate who you are. And so the right people come to you, right? What do you stand for? So that's me in a nutshell.

Yeah. Because I mean, like, I think it's the volume of information that we're overwhelmed with, our brains literally can't decide who to listen to. It's like, I don't know anymore. And it kind of defaults to whatever the algorithm shows you. And it's like, well, you like this Joe Rogan clip, so I'm just going to give you more of it. And then that's who you listen to. By default. It's like, well, do I know anything about Joe Rogan? No. I mean, I remember him on, was it Survivor? No. What was it? What was the show that he hosted?

I don't even know. Like he just crept out of nowhere for me. And it's a sad thing. Like if you accidentally click a link, the algorithm, especially on Instagram.

Fear Factor. He was the host on Fear Factor.

I didn't ever know that about him. But if you accidentally even click a link, you're going to get served that. You have to make your own way. In the words of Fleetwood Mac, that song, Go Your Own Way. And it's like, that's what I teach on LinkedIn because I wrote the link, co-wrote the LinkedIn Branding book. And it's like, go your own way. You do not let that social media. What's that? Go your own way. Yeah, it's such a good song, right? I have actually, fun fact, I have a Rock Your Personal Brand, Go Your Own Way. I have a playlist all for like really fun. I'll have to share with your listeners. Yes. It's titled Go Your Own Way. That's the name of the playlist. I love it. Yeah. But anyway, you have to. But anyway, you make your own way. You get really clear on who you are, what you stand for, the problem you solve. I think at the end of the day, the beginning of the day, if you know what problem you solve, that's going to help you articulate. I'm so tired of the verbiage, build your brand, get out there. I mean, I've heard it ad nauseam. And I'm trying to differentiate myself. And so my whole business is helping these brilliant people who are so brilliant in what they do. And this is kind of my why. There are so many brilliant people, Christian, you included, who have such a message and transformation. Flattery will get you everywhere. Exactly. But if you can't communicate that laser sharp and quickly, then the right people you're here to reach are just—

You're right.

That's what I'm here for. And that's like, you know, on social media, networking events, on LinkedIn. I also have a big component of, you know, getting, diversifying our visibility streams so you can get PR, get on podcasts like this. Write books like you did. Like, there's so many ways that we can get out there now. That's the beauty of the digital industry now, right? We have, we have channels that never existed.

Yes, it's, it's the, it's the blessing and the curse.

Yes, you know, exactly.

Um, so what prompted you to go out on your own?

It was, it, this is in my TEDx talk. Back when I was in grad school in Southern California, I was freshly married, young, and, uh, I was like, I want to one day, I remember being in Cal State Fullerton, I worked in the PR department. I'm like, one day I want to have my own PR agency. I talk about this in the TEDx talk. And then that idea just poofed away. So about 10 years ago, almost this month, this idea just crept, flashed back and downloaded. And so I just am so compelled now that we have these digital assets to help people tell a better story about themselves, especially the people have so much brilliance to share. And so I use my double degrees in communication and all my training and my own framework that really helped them. And I I try to lead by example, Christian. You know, I try to share the struggles. I try to share the wins. I mostly try to share other people because here's a fun fact: because I've been in PR and I'm extroverted, I'd much rather talk about you than talk about me. So that's— I can relate. But we're the messenger. We have this thing. We're just bringing it out there. So if you look at it that way, you got to drive it to the people who need it, right?

Yes, I find people find you much more interesting when you talk about them. They think you're brilliant. 100%.

Yes.

But you didn't answer my question.

Oh, so what was the question?

What prompted you to do this? I mean, I understand the origin story.

You were going to do it. My why is because there are too many brilliant people who don't know how to get out there, who are invisible brilliance, who have— and this is the whole reason my TEDx talk is we have gifts in this world. And if you bury them. You can't go to your grave burying them. And so I'm truly here to help people put themselves out there, own that unique gift that they have. And so how do they do— how do you do that? I have a plan for you to get out there so you absolutely are confident, you're clear, and you're credible. So I guess at the end of the day, I don't want people who have their best gifts inside them to die without getting it out there.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. Okay, you're either— I'm either doing a poor job of asking the question or you're dodging me. So I'm going to reframe the question. Is there something that prompted you to go into business for yourself after being an employee for so long?

That was my prompt, my 10-year dream. That's enough to make me get out there.

I mean, I mean, it was literally you just woke up one day and like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this now.

Yeah. And this backstory is, and that's the whole reason I did my TEDx talk, I got stuck in the vortex of content addiction There's a thing, content overload. And I wanted to get out there. It was so easy, but yet I let the judgment monster— that's the name of the TEDx talk, How to Overcome the Judgment Monster and Boldly Put Yourself Out There. So yeah, my struggle was my story, and that's why I want people to never feel confused. So yeah, my dream came back to me, July 29th, 2015, to be honest. And I was smitten, like, yes, that's all I want. That is the dream I'm meant to have. But yet it took me 5 years to get out there fully. And 3, to overcome the judgment monster. So yeah, so that's my reason. I don't know what other guests tell you, but, uh, no, no, that was the, that was the nugget I was looking for. Yeah, you have to keep drilling sometimes. You do.

You said it and I just didn't hear it.

That's okay. It truly is for me. Like, I knew that I was meant to do that, and that's— but my— I struggled. Like, maybe you decided to go out on business and it's like easy. For me, I had to suffer through you know, what I call the judgment monster now. And it's all in my TEDx talk when hopefully it'll get out there soon because I'm so excited to share that message. But yes, that's why I'm out here. And I love helping people overcome what's holding them back, get out there. And you, like you, you wrote this book. Are you letting it just, you know, you had this little roadblock. So how would— let me turn it back to you. I'm a podcast host myself. So let's ask some questions if you don't mind.

See what you did there.

How's your book? I mean, I'm going to get in your book. Like, I want to know about your book. Are you still promoting it? It's evergreen, right? So what's the take on that?

Well, so that is interesting. So I knew when I wrote the book, uh, it was for a specific reader. It was not general audience. I knew I was not going to sell, you know, 100,000 books. Um, I had reasonable expectations around that, but what I didn't understand, and what I was having a conversation with my editor right when it was getting ready to go to the printer, was this understanding like, oh, I'm not really done. Now I have to go sell the book. I have to promote the book. And, you know, I remember her saying, yeah, you don't have to have a good book to promote it or to sell it or for it to be successful. You know, there's not necessarily a cause and relationship, cause and effect relationship there. And, you know, I think that's true in most things. I mean, like, we assume that because something is successful, that is good. But if, if, if you really think about it, do you, do you want to trust the masses to determine what's really good? And that's probably not the best place to be. But to come back to your question, the book is doing what I intended it to do. The podcast is doing what I intended it to do. We're working on our— we have our first live event here in Oklahoma City in October. And, you know, that's a new thing. But what I— I've got all the pieces on the on the board. Now I have to get them to, you know, work together to gain the synergy. Because I don't think it's about doing more. I think it's about connecting the dots with what is already out there.

No, that's a great thing. You make the great case of the book, just as we were talking at the beginning, that the best and brightest aren't necessarily the ones out there, right? Because we can't just assume— I have picked up— I'm an avid reader of Kindle, paperback, hardback, and Audible. And I'll pick up books, I'm like, oh my God, this book was brilliant. Why do not more people know about it?

Right?

And that's the case. We can't assume— I've written two books, we can't assume. And I, you know, I, I'm guilty of it too. You get busy in life. And but you have a brilliant book that creative entrepreneurs really can, you know, profit. I mean, that's a beautiful— that's the whole crux of it. I'm assuming you love what you do. That's what your previous guest said. You're helping people do what they love. I'm helping them communicate what they love. But if you can't make a profit or a business from it, then it's just a hobby. And we— and there's absolutely every way, I'm assuming, this book, then you absolutely can make a profit and a profitable business from your creative endeavors.

Is that Yeah, no, I absolutely, I think what I, in interviewing clients for the book, I remember this conversation with my client where he laid it out in such brilliant terms that I ripped it off and stole it, was that, you know, there's this false paradigm that creatives think that they can basically do what they love and they may or may not make money, or they can sell their soul and do stuff they don't like doing, but it pays the bills. And that was a false paradigm. It was very clear when I saw it and heard it. And I'm like, well, no, that's not true. What is true is that creative entrepreneurs have to redeploy their creativity in a way that they may not have had before. I talk a lot about on this show how the entrepreneurial mindset is one of problem solving. And if you come to the table with looking at your skill set, so like I've done PR, I've done events, I'm an accountant, whatever, then because you're the hammer, everything looks like a nail. And that's not problem solving. Problem solving is saying, okay, what problems do I see? And then how can I potentially solve them? I may not be able to solve them with my skill set. I may have to learn a new skill set. I might have to partner with someone else to do it. Um, but at the end of the day, you know, Elon Musk doesn't know how to build rocket ships and doesn't know how to build, um, electric cars or any of the other businesses. He saw the opportunity, the problem, and he's, he's found a solution. That's what an entrepreneur does. But it doesn't mean that, oh, I, I've, I've, I've sold my soul to the company man and I'm doing stuff that I, I hate. It's you're letting your creativity, your divergent thinking come up with solutions that are novel that no one else is going to come up with. How about that for a soundbite?

No, that's good. I'm going to get the book after we talk.

Oh, I'm sending you a copy. So don't worry.

You are? Well, thank you in advance. But thank you. Yeah. No, so, but it's good. But can I ask you one more question? Then we'll get back to it. I'm curious because I have several accountants in my family, how accountant becomes about creative. I know, right? How did that connection start from accountant to creativity? I love it.

I'll be very honest. I didn't truly understand the connection until I wrote the book. There were some breadcrumbs along the way, but that was what was very interesting about writing the book was So much of it was bringing my story forth and understanding my story. And, you know, that's kind of what I start with the book. Like, who thinks that an accountant, that's not a creative business like that, right? But that's not really what I'm talking about. Every entrepreneur is a creative. That's what they do. They create solutions. Now, the question is, what's their motivation? And for some entrepreneurs, it's just making money. They see a problem, they want to fix it. And that, you know, if it's a dry cleaning business, we're going to do that. You know, if it's garbage truck manufacturing, that's what we're going to do. I mean, it's just, you know, you follow the money. But a lot of us out there are passion-driven. We have a purpose, just like you said, and your purpose and it's a passion and that's what drives us. It's not, I mean, the money is important, but it's not the primary motivation. In other words, Michelle, you're not going to go, even though the opportunity is laid out beautifully in front of you, you're not going to go into the garbage truck manufacturing business if it's laid out in front of you because that's just not what you're interested in, right? Absolutely. And that's most of us. So that's what I learned in writing the book, that I am a creative and I was okay with saying it. You know, I think a lot of my childhood and adulthood, my creativity was, I don't want to say squashed, but certainly wasn't valued. And I personally didn't see any value in it. But until I understood that what I was doing was creative, like, being a creative is not being a figurative oil painter like my daughter. I mean, it's not just that. It's, it's a lot.

It's an innovator. I consider myself a creative, but I'm not crafty. Okay. So like, I find creative ways to think outside the box. I hate that term, but I am constantly curious because I'm always looking at how things work. And a lot of times I'll put, connect the dots from different things for a solution. So it's refreshing. And you are so right. I am driven by meaning and they always say the money comes, right? And it does because your people find that passion, especially in the world of AI now. I'm not knocking AI. I use it a lot for, you know, summary and stuff, but I will never use it to replace my voice. My video or me, whatever. I am so human connection. In fact, if you go to my LinkedIn profile, it says powered by human connection. So I think this creativity is even more important today than ever in the creative sense as you spun it. So thank you for letting me interject, and I hope you don't mind me stepping on your— because before we hit record, I'm like, I would love to hear more of your stuff. We talked about it. So here you go. I'm playing my interview hat. I love to interview people. So it was fascinating.

Well, one of the ways you talked about AI, and I know a lot of people in creative industries are like, I can't, anxiety is not the word, existential is the word. And really wrapped up in it and how it's going to affect their industry and how it's going to change their ability to make a living. And And I'm like, that's— you need to just flip it because it's not about how it's— it's going to change what it changes and you can't control that. So what you have to do is how can you use the tool to solve the problems that you need to solve? A very basic example for me is, you know, because I write a lot and I just uploaded my book and some other content into a GPT, and I said, help me be more clear. This is an example of me being clear because I, you know, I went through like 5 editorial rounds with the book. So, and I realized at the outset when I got my first editorial review back, I'm like, I felt like an 8th grade English student with all the red pencil all over the paper. I And I realized that I wasn't as clear as I thought I was. So, you know, I use the tools like, OK, where am I potentially not being clear here? Or, right? And so it's not, it's not altering my voice. It's not, it's not changing the content. It's making the content better.

Absolutely. It's a neutral thought partner on your stuff. I use it a lot on my own stuff. I don't ask it to write it. And, and that's so true. And I like, I I laugh that you say that because I love working with authors especially because they really get their stuff after they've written a book. And it's like, if you want to get super clear in your life, your work, your business, write a book. That forces you like nothing else. But once you get through that messy, messy process, it's so much easier. It's actually sometimes more fun because also you make an ecosystem out of it. Now you have content galore because not everyone sees the book and it's just, it's beautiful. But I could go on and on and on. Thankful in advance for the book.

Absolutely.

Book nerd. You don't see my bookcases around, but they're, they're all over the place.

But I might have a problem as far as books. My saving grace, I thought my wife was going to divorce me over how many books I bought. I found the Libby app. And I love it. Although there's, there's, it's not so great for nonfiction. So I still have to buy some books.

Yeah, yeah, no, it is good. And anyway, and Audible too, and all the things. But, uh, but yeah, that's exactly just going back to doing what you love and embracing who you are. And you know, you've been doing this podcast for a year now, so that says a lot. So that's how you do it. You, you know, stake your claim, do what you love, stay clear about it, and just start attracting the right people you're here to serve. And I'm sure it's been a beautiful process.

Yeah, in some ways it's been messy in other ways, but that's life, right? Well, that's life.

That's life. Nothing is ever perfect. So this is tremendous. So I am—

So I have a follow-up question for you. Okay. What are some of the challenges being in business for yourself in the last 5 years that maybe you weren't expecting or that maybe gave you that existential crisis of like, you know, I find that a lot of people when they first start a business, they don't realize what they don't know. They have no idea how much they don't know. What were some of those struggles starting out?

Oh, for me? Oh, it's been— I'll be an open book here. First of all, I realized what an extrovert I am. So I miss being around people. I was used to managing teams and, you know, having an assistant. So I was used to, you know, more Scheduled stuff all the time. I mean, I think a lot of us in corporate, they came, you know, you had team meetings and blah, blah, blah. So I just had stuff. And so I guess the time management, staying focused, because I also learned I'm a curious learner, getting help when you need it, and, you know, really believing in yourself and listening to that inner voice and not getting too tied into what everyone else is doing, looking off to the side of the road. I'm all over it. You know, I think a lot of us will probably agree. And just finding one signature thing that you can own. Okay. Because I'm kind of multi-passionate. What I do is not tangible. I'm not an accountant. Even accountant is, you know, there's some service industries are very intangible. So you really have to find a good productized service, get a good offer. Um, if you're like, you know, in a service field and, uh, keep putting yourself out there. The first year in business, of course, it was 2020. It was a little challenging.

Great timing, by the way.

Yeah, I know, right? I, hey, I left January 31st. I had no idea, right? But anyway, that was life. Anyway, so come January 21st, I went all in on my second PYOT era 2.0. If you listen to the TEDx, you'll hear me talk about the first version of it. But I just started getting super visible, getting out there, and opportunities came faster. And that's why if you see behind me, Maybe not in this little thing, but I have this— someone created it. I said it so much, put yourself out there. You can't see. I don't know if you can see it. But anyway, I am so crazy about people getting themselves out there because, you know, brilliance, invisible brilliance doesn't cut it anymore. So when I started doing that, I mean, within 3 weeks, I got invited on a speaking, really embracing podcast guesting, podcast hosting. Writing books, just doing all the things. Try things out too, because you never know what's going to light you up on the delivery and what's going to like, you know, burn you out. So those are my 5 years lessons learned, high level, that I probably— someone listening might relate to some of it.

Did you— did the Criticism Monster revisit you?

The Judgment Monster?

Or the Judgment Monster?

Yes. Well, especially those first years I couldn't get out? Absolutely. But not as much as when I first, you know, was trying to get out there. But I think as we try to do new things or you accomplish something and you want to do something bigger, that's when it flexes its muscles. And for me, I realized, I think in the last year when I was writing my second book, I have to be— I know now how I best deliver what I do. And that's in the moment. That's with speaking and training and teaching. I'm lit up and I do better work. And, you know, I just have more positive energy instead of being drained. And so I think getting really clear on how you are best fit to serve people and how you like serving people— just because you can do something, Christian Brim, doesn't mean you should, right? Or switch out the way you deliver it. It's going to make a tremendous difference in your productivity and profitability as well?

Yeah, I think there are. Well, I haven't talked to an entrepreneur yet that was just like this bold, braggadocious, not, I'm not going to fail at anything. Like if you lift up the hood and have the conversations, they're like, Yeah, I have no idea if this is going to work, or I'm really scared because I got a lot staked on this and I'm not sure if it's going to work out. I think it will, but I don't know. And the imposter syndrome, I don't really like that word, but it's this, you know, fear of failure, I guess, you know, or just fear in general. That cripples so many people from realizing their potential. How do you, how do you coach people through that? Like, I'm sure you run into it.

Yeah. Well, I like to call it, in fact, in the LinkedIn Branding book, there's a whole, we did a whole Brand Score system. And the first thing is mindset. And we identified about 26 fears. And to me, the fear of judgment is the one why I coined the Judgment Monster, because for me, I always feared what other people would think more than failure. Like, I guess it's all related. So, you know, the entire theme of my TEDx talk was if you take the focus off of self and put it to service, it's so much easier to get out there. And I give a lesson, I give a story. I'm not going to tell it all, but it flipped the switch for me. Okay. I quit worrying what the hell, quit changing my website copy, quit looking at other people, what they're doing, scared I wasn't, you know, judging, you know, self-judgment and started saying, who can I help? And I give a story. That changed everything for me. And then I started putting myself out there in service to, can I just help one person today with what I'm doing? And my gosh, the fear will never go away. The judgment monster will never go away, but you can get out the cage and just, you know, say, not today. I'm putting myself out here for someone else. And that's how I, I kid you not, that is how I do it. And the days I get scared again, the days I don't want to do it, I just remember that. And I know it sounds like Pollyanna, but that's all I do. And especially If I'm really down, I'll reach out to a former client, a friend, a colleague, a mentor. And just the fact that you just reach out and make this physical action, a connection, that is taking it off of you at that moment. And it's, you know, dropping something in their lap that you're thinking of, or what, sending them something, whatever. And I kid you not, every single time, every single time when I'm down in the dumps, and you know, let's face it, as entrepreneurs we can be, um, that helps the moment get a little bit better and start shifting back.

I think that's uber powerful. I think, foundationally, I believe that love drives out fear. And that's an axiom in my world. And I think that what you said, the service to others is an act of love. And I think that if you did nothing more in life than just ask that question, how can I help you? Yeah. And you were observant. Like, I'm not just saying going around and everybody that has a problem, you fix it. I'm not talking about that. But if you approach your current clients with that question, How can I help you? And not, not take no for an answer because oftentimes they're locked into their experience with you or what they think you can do and say, well, you know, it didn't have to do with PR or accounting or whatever it is that you think that I do. How can I help? What do you need? Because, you know, I may have a resource. But even, even the act of listening is an act of love because, you know, and I'm talking about actually listening. We're not just asking and moving on to the next question. It's like, what is it that I can help you with? That, that is a gift because, as you mentioned, being an entrepreneur can be a very lonely place. And if you can help that person even just get it out of their own head, put a name to it, actually speak it. That is a gift.

Absolutely. Yeah, that gets them out of the trap of their self, the hamster wheel in their brain, where, you know, you're wasting days, weeks, months when they can, you know, if they get out there and reset and go a different way, they're actually going to be, you know, more productive, more profitable, more fulfilled, whatever it is. And yeah, even on your darkest days, you're like, I don't know how this is I don't know if I want to do this. I'm scared. You just deflect ever so slightly to that one person. And listening is the greatest gift on top of love, right? Right. No one listens anymore. So truly care and listen. So anyway, so that was the whole thing about the talk, and I can't wait for it to come out. But that's truly how I get through the moments where I, you know, ready to go do something and I'm The inner voice is like, who are you to think that, right? We all have that. I don't care who you are. I've worked with CEOs to company leaders, consultants to college students. We all as humans are plagued that way. And we got to, we'll never control it, but we can contain it.

So, and, and, and all of the, all of the creative entrepreneurs out there that are having existential crisis around technology changes, you know, I can't think of anything more powerful you can do for your business than just go to the people that you are already doing business with and asking that question, how can I help? And, you know, I think what you'll find is a pattern. It's like, hmm, all these people seem to be having the same problem. And maybe I can find a solution. Right. 100%. Yeah, absolutely.

And then turn off the negative news. Like, I am so sick of seeing on LinkedIn, another CEO says AI is going to take all the jobs. Just get rid of it. A lot of speculation. They don't absolutely know. Like, just live your day. Don't live in the future. Just live now. Turn off the bad noise, news, whatever. It's going to bring you down if you're highly sensitive. I am. I told my husband, he wanted me to watch something the other day, and I'm like, oh, I can tell this is sad. He goes, but it has a happy ending. I'm like, I don't care if it— I can't unthink it. I'm an HS. I've coined myself a highly sensitive person too, because I can't see sad things. And that's like the news. If that's going to plague you and get in your brain all day, turn it off. Don't watch it. Don't listen. Don't read. You know, got to say, I'm not saying we're going to be Pollyanna.

No, no, we're not.

But contain it some, right?

Well, and the reality is no one knows what the technology is going to rot. No one, no one, you know, even go back in most people's lifetime. To 25 years ago with the advent of the internet and, you know, it really becoming ubiquitous. No one in 2000 or '99 or 2001 could envision 25 years later. Nobody. So don't try, because most of the time your brain's going to go in the back in a dark place, right? It— and it's going to be be fine.

And then the media loves the clickbait bad stuff, right? They— that sells, that sells clicks, right? So that's their, their aim. And you always hear the bad junk. So yeah, just go talk to someone when you're like, I can't take this. And there's too much content, and I don't think the human brain is meant to have so many beeps, notifications. I mean, even my washer and dryer, I hate it. Like, it just sings fairy tale tunes every time it goes off. I'm like, I don't want this.

Why is it doing laundry?

Yeah, I know, right? I should start hand washing in a bucket and put it on. Sometimes just going back to analog. I have a book over there, my other bookshelf, I read in 2017. I geeked out on called The Revenge of Analog. So good. He was back in 2017. He's coming out with a new book, the author, about analog in the age of AI. But it was so good. And it even talked about way back then how we are seeking the physical for fulfillment. So maybe kind of go back to some of that. Also to get rid of all this digital screen overload. I think that helps too.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think every little bit.

I think having a hobby is, is important as an entrepreneur. I've picked up woodworking and bread making. Yes, very strange.

No, I think that's good. Years ago, I used to do that sourdough starter stuff. My hobby is I love uh, vintage, uh, finding, and I love antiquing and plants. I have started to do all my fun houseplants, so those aren't really great hobbies, but that's good. My wife's favorite show is Antique Roadshow, and I know, I wish I could find one of those. But no, I just love vintage stuff. I love, um, I love decorating. And, um, anyway, I just love a lot of little piddly things. To you. We all have a creative side. We should, you know, an analog side of us in the world of digital. And I, can I say, a hobby is connecting with people. I love to hear people's stories and, um, I love doing that too. So, you know, find who you are, what you stand for, and how you want to get out in the world and owning your lane, right? And even if you're not an entrepreneur in business, just in general, we need to know that, have a purpose. I call it your professional purpose.. And so you know why you're out there, you know why it matters every day for the most part, or who you're here to serve. Just something to focus on, like your brand north star. And so if you're, you know, personally, professionally, you, you gotta, you know, keep every day fulfilled and serving someone else with the gifts you have. And I, I think, you know, it's a day-by-day thing. We can't project too much, otherwise we'll just, you know, circumvent, but It's just a day-by-day thing. Stay around humans. Human connection is going to be the most strongest need I think we're going to see in the AI world. So can never go wrong.

100%. Sage advice, Michelle.

Sage advice. Well, thank you. I just have— this has been a fun podcast to just chat and we don't have to talk all business. We are, but it's also kind of laced with practical personal stuff too. It's so refreshing. Thank you for hosting me. You're very welcome. Having me guest on rather.

How do, how do people find, uh, your books or more about working with you?

Absolutely. You can go to Michelle B. Griffin. I joke that the B stands for brand. And what I do is help you communicate what you love to do, your work, and so that you can get that visibility opportunities. Go to michellebgriffin.com. I have, you know, my two books. I have my two podcasts. My other resource, that playlist I talked about, that fun playlist is under—

is on there. Definitely gonna go get the playlist. —list.

Yeah, it's fun. And then, you know, I'm— I get on LinkedIn daily. I don't post anymore daily, but, uh, if you're listening, tell me you saw me or heard me here, and I'd love to connect with you on LinkedIn. It's where so many opportunities happen. And so, yeah, check me out at michellebgriffin.com. And on my website, I do have a free, um, audio training on how to get visible on LinkedIn. It's a lot of mindset stuff for those brilliant and quietly brilliant people. It, it's that mindset, motivation, and my 3-step process how to get out there. So you can check that out as well. It's michellebgriffin.com/linkedinvisible.

Perfect. Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a message, let us know, and we'll get rid of Michelle.

Until then, ta-ta for now. Thank you.