Transforming Pain into Purpose: Gretchen Schoser

This is The Chris Project, where we discuss mental wellness, self-awareness, and mindset with entrepreneurs and experts. Set your perceived ideas and biases aside and let's go on our journey for yourself, for your family, for the world.

Welcome to another episode of The Chris Project. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today, Gretchen Schoescher of Schoescher Solutions. Gretchen, welcome.

Thank you. I'm so honored to be here this morning.

All right, so I'm going to start with a— what, what is a Schoescher Solution?

A Schoescher Solution. So I I'm a very small company, one person. I took my 45 years in corporate America and placed it into my little business. I do implementations for UKG recruiting and onboarding. That's one side of my business, the technical side. On the wellness side, I do— I really work with companies to ensure that they are taking care of their employees' mental health, especially during change management, because that's the one time that they actually forget about employees' mental health. And making sure that they have the tools for like burnout, stress management, you know, employer appreciation, and just ensuring that they have all the right tools to ensure that their employees are performing.

So I'm assuming there's some experience in those 45 years that led you to want to do this? I mean, was that what you did in corporate America or was it a reaction to your experience in corporate America?

It was a knee-jerk response. In November of 2024, a very small consulting firm I was working for got acquired by one of the top 5 consulting firms. And when I had taken my early retirement, I had made myself a promise that I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever work for a big company again. And, you know, as it is, you know, I couldn't make Resting Bitch Face go away fast enough. And I had an opportunity to open up my own company in January of this year and really just follow my passion and do the things that make my heart feel good. And I love what I do. Like within 2 weeks of me like starting my own company, I had a customer and I didn't even like do any advertising.

Right. Well, that's a good sign that one, you've identified a need and two, that you are called to do it. Like, you know, I don't think with entrepreneurs there's enough discussion or acknowledgement around a calling. And I think it shows up as a passion. You know, I've come to believe in my experience that, you know, that passion was put there. Like, I was not— I was not— born with that passion. It was a series of events that created the passion and a response to those events, but that there was an overarching plan by my Creator that this would be my calling. Like, this is why— and this may sound woo-woo to a lot of people, but like, This is why I created you. This is why you're here. Um, and I don't, I don't think people, entrepreneurs, really think about it in those terms. And maybe it's an age thing. I'm, I'm getting old, so maybe that's—

I don't know.

What, what are your thoughts?

So like, for me, my— it, it is my purpose, it's my passion, but You know, 2 years ago I was at the darkest place in my entire life. You know, I attempted suicide on Christmas Day 2022, and by the grace of God, I'm still alive today, and I'm so very thankful to be alive. I was within 20 minutes of taking my life, but after that happened, like, I had that small glimmer of hope that things would get better. And they did. They got a bazillion times better, better than I ever thought. Like, you know, I launched with my best friend an award-winning podcast, but I turned all that pain into purpose. And so when I opened up my company in January of this year, I got to see everything come up, come full circle, right from the lowest point in my life. To where I am now. And now I enjoy every day. And, you know, being an entrepreneur is, you know, it's not all sunshine and roses, but I get to make all the decisions.

Yes. Yes.

And if I'm having a bad, bad day, I can just get up and walk away. I don't have to tell anybody what I'm doing.

Yes, that's true.

But I also get to make a difference in the world. And make people realize that, you know, quit chasing the money and chasing the dream. Chase your joy. Chase the things that make you happy. Because I'm going to tell you, 9 times out of 10, that money is not going to make you happy at the end of the day.

No, I'd say 10 out of 10. Have you read— well, let me— I'm going to put a pin in that and come back to it. The Greek word for passion actually means suffering. And I learned this from Todd Henry, author of The Brave Habit and The Accidental Creative. And he said, you know, in order to pursue your passion, you have to be willing to endure suffering. That was his take on it. But I think your take is also a brilliant insight in that from the suffering comes the response. Right? Would you care to— well, before I do that, I'll say Keith Baker, I think it's Keith Baker, Dr. Keith Baker, wrote the, the book, uh, What Happy People Know, and I recommend it to everybody because I thought it was brilliant. Um, but, but he specifically says money absolutely will not make you happy. Um, you know, it, it never does, never has, never will. But there's this persistent, um, thinking that it will. Um, now, so read the book. Would you be willing to go into why you were considering suicide? What were the circumstances that caused that?

Oh yeah, I have no problem talking about it. So the fall of 2022 was probably the hardest 3 months of my entire life. At the time, I was 59 and a half. I had been offered an early retirement. And in all ways, that should have been a good thing. But you have to remember, even, you know, 2 years ago, there was still ageism in the workforce. Yeah. You know, and I still wanted my bougie toys and, you know, to be able to travel. So that was one thing. And then my wife got shingles. She was down for 8 weeks. If you've ever been around anybody that has had shingles, you know, there's absolutely nothing you can do to help them. I hit and killed a deer. I got catfished. If anybody wants to know what catfished is, like, an actor portrayed them— somebody portrayed themselves as an actor. I got sucked in, but thankfully, like, my brain, like, kicked back in. It's like, before I spend any money, uh, we had a really good friend of ours pass away unexpectedly. My father-in-law passed away 2 days before Thanksgiving. Throw in a little bit of seasonal depression and some holiday depression And then with work, they started taking away all the things I had done for like the last 15 years 'cause they knew I was getting ready for early retirement. Mm-hmm. On top of everything else, I'm a pure extrovert and an empath, and I didn't let anybody know what was going on because I didn't understand what was going on in my own head. Like, I couldn't find my voice, I couldn't find my footing. I didn't understand what was happening. All I knew is that I was just done. Like, I was taking on everybody else's pain, but I wasn't taking care of myself. And you know, those buzzwords, self-love and self-care, like, they're not buzzwords. Like, if you are not taking care of yourself, you can't take care of anybody else. And by the time Christmas Day rolled around, I, I just, I couldn't do it anymore. I wanted to go for a drive, but it was -22 up here and the cars wouldn't start. So I was just completely defeated, right? Like, by the time I came back in the house, I was like God, this has just got to stop. And I had gone back up to my room. I had a bottle of pills waiting for me, and I had remembered that a couple months prior I read about the 988, uh, suicide and crisis hotline here in the U.S. I was like, you know what, it, it can't hurt, because like nobody knew how depressed I was. As extroverts, you know, we all wear this awesome mask that nobody actually knows what's going on. If you're doing that, please don't do it. Like, the only person you hurt is yourself. And I ended up calling 988, and the woman that answered that phone was the most compassionate person I've ever spoken to in my entire life. She gave voice to what was going on in my head. And when I was done with that conversation, I went downstairs and talked to my wife for 3 hours, and she was mad because I hadn't come to her. But, you know, being my age, you know, we've been taught our entire lives you don't talk about what's going on inside your head. And she was just so thankful that I was alive, that I had that, you know— and it's gonna sound woo-woo, just like you said— but like, I had a voice telling me that things were gonna get better, and they did. So much better.

Yes, I, I want to drill into that, you know, extrovert, not wanting to show your feelings, share how you feel. Did you feel like there was some— like, I just kind of want to dig into that. Is it that you were protecting people from the way you felt, or you were ashamed of the way you were feeling, or you weren't even really clear how you were feeling? Like, what, what, what was it?

It was a little bit of all of it. Number one, I didn't understand what was going on. I had never, ever, ever been depressed like that in my entire life.

Okay.

And like, it was just one bad thing after another, and, you know, soaking up everybody else's pain but not, you know, telling anybody what was going on with me. And And I think part of it too was shame, because like, I, I didn't know how to fix myself. I'm really good at like fixing everybody else, but I couldn't fix myself. And I think the third thing was like, I just felt weak, like I should be able to like pull out of this. And you know, those were all the wrong things to think. I, I know now, after 2 and a half years of really intense therapy But when I let people know what was going on with me the day after everything happened, people were shocked. I posted that on social media just to let my friends know what was going on, and people were terrified because they had no idea how depressed I was. I would show up every day with a big smile on my face, you know, I was joking around. And when I finally laid all my cards on the table, they because I, I, I didn't want people to feel as alone and terrified in their journey as I felt in mine. And I had about 200 people reach out and say thank you because now they felt seen and heard.

Yeah, I think entrepreneurs— I mean, certainly been my case, um, that there, there's this image, veneer this person, this expectation that we believe that we've got to bring to the table, whether that's for our spouse, our employees, our customers or clients, our fellow entrepreneurs. There's this image that we feel like we need to portray. And for me, in a lot of ways, it was around living up to others' expectations of what, right? And so if that's the case, then you're not supposed to have any problems. Like, you're not supposed to have any cash flow problems or you know, you're not supposed to not like what you do. Or, you know, there's all of these things that you're not supposed to show. And that's just a dangerous, dangerous place to be. Because really, at the crux of it, I think you're living your life for a falsehood. It's not you. It's not what your passion is. It's not what you want. You're living into a lie, a fantasy.

Right. It's like society's expectations of us. But you know what? We're all human, right? We all have messy minds. We all hit a mental brick wall. We all we're all human. Like, you know, we, we're not— we all, we make mistakes too. And being an entrepreneur is hard, but I make it fun because I'll be 62 in a couple of weeks. I'm making this fun. And like, who opens up a new business at 61? Um, I did, but I, I wanted to do something that I could put good back out into the world and, you know, help people with their implementations and help, you know, employers make sure their employees' mental health is good. I'm super passionate about both of those. And so, like, when I get up in the morning to come to my job here, my little hobble, I'm the happiest person in the world. Like, even my wife said this is the happiest she's seen me in 20 years.

Yeah. And, you know, if you want to call it the zone, like, you know, we talk about athletes, you know, and they get into this zone where they're just acting out of this internal energy, this flow, and they're super people. Superman, right? Like, they can do things nobody else can do, right? But as an entrepreneur, that's exactly where you should be. Yesterday we had our leadership quarterly. We meet quarterly offsite and we got to the end. And I always close with the question, go around the table of like, hey, where's your head at? How are you feeling? To a person, they were all tired, which was like, that's good. That means we did good work. And they asked me and I'm like, yeah, I'm not tired. I'm actually— I could keep going. Like, I was in the zone. I was there. I was doing what I was supposed to be doing. And I think along the way, I mean, you haven't had the benefit of this as an entrepreneur, but certainly as an employee, you had the opportunity. Like, you kind of drift, like you get lost in the doing and you kind of forget why you started doing it in the first place. For me, you know, I, it's probably been 10 years ago. I got to the point where I just walked away from my business. I left it in my brother's— my brother was my partner and I left it in his hands. Because I'm like, I'm sick of this. I, I, I don't like doing it anymore. And, you know, I felt real guilty, like, why, why? But, but I, I couldn't think of anything other— I, I couldn't even process my feelings on it. Like, I'm just— I, I don't want to do this anymore. Um, and I'd lost my passion. I'd lost my way.

I— that's exactly where I got right before I was offered my early retirement. So like the week before that came, I was like, God, I gotta win the lottery because like I just don't want to do this anymore. I'd lost all my passion for doing something that I really loved. And so when that email came that said I was eligible for early retirement, it didn't take me 6 hours to like sign the paperwork. I'm like, You know what? It's not the best package in the world. It's not the worst package in the world. But you know what?

It's an out. It's an out. I see an escape.

I— you know what? You're going to pay me to leave. Good. Let's, let's, let's make this so. And, you know, so that was like, like I said, it was a blessing in disguise. But, you know, there was a lot of, like, heartache and thinking going into that.

So, yeah. And, and that loss of passion What I realized, I mean, it wasn't for several years that I realized it, but the loss of passion was not anything external. It was all internal. And what I realized was that the company had reached my level of competence. It could not grow past me. And it wasn't any technical competence. That was, you know, that was the, the deceiving thing about it. It wasn't like I couldn't envision how to go forward or the tactics or strategies to go forward. The problem was that I personally had to grow. In order for the company to grow further. And I did not understand that. I just walked away from it. But I think a lot of entrepreneurs get to that point and they don't have an understanding. And what I— I forgot what I was going to say was I love the fact that you had the presence of mind to reach out to somebody else and make that phone call. And I think that that is probably the most critical thing is not trying to do this alone. I don't know where we get in our head that we've got to be completely independent, but we were not created to be independent. We were created to be in communion with each other. And just you know, reach out to somebody. I mean, even if you're not at the point of suicide, like if you're just miserable, like, you know, I don't, I don't like this anymore. Like, well, you don't have to be miserable.

Not at all. Like, and you know, the, the really awesome thing about LinkedIn now is like there's like these little entrepreneur, you know, groups for entrepreneurs where you can actually reach out to somebody. And like the same for 988. If you feel like you're in crisis and you may not have suicide ideation and You may not have community around you, but you can certainly pick up the phone and talk to these people. They will get you some resources to help you out, you know, because when you're working for a big company, most times they'll have like an EAP program where you know that you can reach out to them. But like, as entrepreneurs, we still have those types of resources. Sure. And you know, the great thing about those resources is they're free, right? They're anonymous. Right, like, and like, there's no shame in asking for help. Absolutely zero shame. Like, we, we can't do it all by ourselves. Um, you know, I'll take me as a, as an example. So last week I hit a brick wall, like a massive brick wall. I ended up having to cancel a podcast interview because I just didn't have it in me. And like, the host was a very, you know, understanding. And like, I, you know, canceled a couple of work meetings and my customers were understanding. You got to take care of you because you can't run your business if you're mentally checked out.

100%. I kind of want to go into this work that you do with employees and change management because I think it would give us some insights for all of us entrepreneurs. So what is it specifically you do with employees and change management?

So just based on my 45 years of corporate work experience, I worked for one company that did it right. Everybody else sucked at it. But I make sure that companies understand that to quit looking at what is future tense and look at this, the transition period, because it's in that transition period where you're going to lose employee interest. That's where a lot of stress comes up because now things are going to change. And making sure that managers and team leads are doing like some self-check-ins with their team members. Ensuring that like they haven't mentally checked out or like what other tools do they need to, you know, get buy-in for this project, whether it's new software or if, you know, they're planning on doing a ton of layoffs or there's just change within the organization. It's all in how you look at it from an employee level and not an application or a change level. And the people I've talked to— I've, I work predominantly with like small to medium-sized companies. I'm not opposed to like a big company like Salesforce. But, you know, making sure that the managers are— have at least a little bit of mental health training so they can identify stress and burnout. And, you know, making sure that they're retaining these employees. Because a lot of times during change, like, your top employees, if they're not mentally happy, they're out. And especially in this day and age, even though the job market, like, sucks, people that are tenured employees, if they don't like change, they immediately check out. And so giving companies tools so that they can ensure, like, their top performers, or, you know, anybody across the board, isn't completely checked out, and, you know, ensure that their voices are heard and it's a win-win for everybody because if your employees are not mentally sharp, it's going to affect your bottom line.

Yeah, I think I've gone through different iterations of change in our organization, and I think when I've done it wrong, it's been not thinking about it in terms of what's in it for them. Like, you know, it's always, we're making this change for the betterment of the company. Great. Um, but the reality is that people are self-motivated, right? And so any, anybody is going to look at it, okay, what's in it for me? How is this going to make my life better? Um, and Yeah, I discounted that. Like, who gives a shit what, you know, I mean, like, we're doing this for the company and this is why it's a better thing, right? But, you know, the worst thing in the world as an employer is to have your people not want to do their job. And, you know, you can't fix that. Like, if they don't want to do it and they have all the skill, all the capacity, all the understanding, if they don't want to, you're screwed as an employer.

Yeah, you are. But you know what? You can kind of— you can flip the coin because if you are really willing to understand what your employees are feeling like or how this is going to make their job easier like take the time. Like, you know, have those one-on-ones with your employees. Like find out what their grievances are because everybody's perception is different, especially like if your employee has a mental illness like Asperger's or, you know, bipolar or ADHD or OCD, right? Because they all are thinking about like their patterns, like don't move their cheese. Don't ever move their cheese. But if you're going to move their cheese, tell them why you're going to move their cheese and what that benefit is going to be for them.

Yeah. And I think entrepreneurs have the tendency because we deal— I perceive this, that we deal with things at a different level. We have higher stress tolerances, higher risk tolerances. And so I think we discount a lot of the change and like, well, it's no big deal, right? But as I've said on the show, it's not my phrase, but like, to your brain, it's a saber-toothed tiger. Like, if there's no difference in your body and your brain's reaction, it's hitting at that existential level. Like, this is danger. I've got, I've got to get away. And it doesn't matter that you don't perceive it that way as the employer, as the entrepreneur, they perceive it that way because— and so, you know, yeah, I was a thoughtless boss at times.

And it happens to all of us, right? Because none of us are really taught about, you know, mental health in the workplace. We weren't taught about mental health in school. But, you know, a lot of it's just like common sense. Right? Like, it's just common sense. And, you know, managers and team leads, you know, they're getting their marching orders from above, but it's all in how you perceive that change and how you can talk to your employees about it and make them feel comfortable. That's the difference between everybody loving it and everybody hating it, right?

And, and I, I, I would perceive that, that that stress, the reaction that people would have, which is, I don't want change. No one wants change. Please understand that entrepreneurs may be more comfortable with it than others, but people in general want things predictable, right? That's the way our brains are wired. And so when people react very naturally, very normally, I would perceive that as pushback, like, well, we don't want this. We don't agree with you. We don't think this is the right thing. No, it's not. It's not about you, dumbass. It's— they're just reacting because that's normal.

And if you're going to talk to an employee, do one-on-ones. Don't do it in a group setting because a lot of times employees don't want to cause a rift. And, you know, look like they're not like gung-ho, like, yeah, let's do this, you know, take them, put them aside, and just, you know, like talk to them like you would talk to like your mom or your dad or a friend, right? Just find out kind of what's going on inside their head, and then take all your notes and like figure out like a plan. Like maybe, you know, maybe they need a different set of tools to help them, you know. Be gung-ho about the change. Maybe it could be that they just need to be moved to a different department because they'll never feel comfortable doing this. Correct. But like, you know, giving them options and not just shoving it down their throat. Because when you just shove it down their throat— and you know, as an entrepreneur, we, we have to play both sides of the fence, right? We have to be like, yes, you need to do this, but we also need to You know, give those employees some patience and grace, right? Because a lot of times it is a big change for them. So, you know, when I'm doing my implementations, I play devil's advocate because I've been in the customer's shoes before. And, you know, I've been in the consulting role before. So you just, you know, patience and grace because everybody learns at a different speed.

Yes. And the end result may be that, like, that person, you know, like, you're changing the rules, the roles and responsibilities, whatever. You're changing a variable in the employment agreement, right? I hired you to do this. Now it's changing, whatever that change looks like. They may not be okay with that. Like, and it may be that they have to go somewhere else. And that's okay. But you're doing it in the right way. It's like, it's not about you. I'm the one doing the change. Like, you're not the one that changed, I changed, right? That sounds like bad marriage counseling. But, you know, most of the time, it's not that. It doesn't— it is not that they're not willing to change or accept the change. It's that, like you said, they don't understand it. They haven't processed their feelings around it. But in my experience, the worst thing that can happen is that someone agrees to it with their mouth, but they really haven't agreed with it. Like, I'm going to be a team player. I don't want to do this. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to be the guy that says no. And they say, yeah, sure, because that's toxic. I mean, those people will never be good at their job., and you're— they're eventually going to have to leave. I mean, like, the— it's because you've left them no out. They, they've, they've agreed something they don't really agree with.

It's like planting that bad seed, right? And that bad seed, their little roots go out to like other employees. And you know, it— the way I think of it is Let's say you have like two 58-year-old people out there, right? And you're introducing change. Now, this is a company that probably had been working with paper their entire life, and now they're going to move to an electronic system. Okay. Yes, they get scared, right? Like, because they've been doing this job for 25 years and now they feel like the rug is being pulled out from underneath them. But the best thing that has ever happened And this was the greatest— like, it made my heart smile— is that these two women, once we turned everything over to the electronic system, you could see the change in their demeanor because they were excited, right? Now they get some hours back in their day, and they're like, right? And that— and they apologize for being so, like, poo-poo about it, but they were super excited. And then that— they took that energy and gave it to like other members of the team. And so by the time we had our last meeting, people were like super excited about this, right? Because they took a process that would take like 2 or 3 days, and now it gets done in like 2 hours. Right.

And acknowledging upfront, like, yeah, I get it, change, it's going to be uncomfortable. Right? Like, you're going to have to learn something new, and that's never fun. But it could be fun. Like, you could learn that, like, hey, I actually like this better. But, you know, we don't know that until you get through it. So let's, you know, acknowledge that this is difficult and support them however you can, but be very clear that this is what's going to happen. And it's not like, well, you know, it's not going to happen for you. We're going to accommodate you because you don't really want to go along with change. What was it? Some speaker I heard that he calls those people terrorists, like the employees that are really productive at what they do, but they're toxic. And, and it's like you just accommodate them because they're really good at their job, but they're, they're toxic to the rest of the, the team.

And, you know, for us as entrepreneurs, you know, we have to have a keen eye to that, right? Like, we don't want to— number one, we don't want to lose our contract, right? Number two, we have to have a little bit of empathy for like what's going on at that employee level. And 3, like, when you're having a meeting with them, I'm going to tell you something that helps, and it may not sound very professional, but have a little laughter during those sessions. Because here's what the laughter does. It releases that cortisol, right? Pumps up your serotonin, pumps up your endorphins. And so, like, when your serotonin and endorphins are going, man, you really want to learn because now you're learning with a smile on your face, right? And so that's how I got a couple of my, my customers to turn around. Like, we would, you know, before we turn on the recording, we get all our giggles and laughs out and, you know, make it personal because we're not robots, right? We're humans talking to other humans and make it relatable. And maybe this is a new customer to you. You know, you can always find something to laugh about. Like, you know, make it, make it, make it an easy conversation. If you make those conversations easy, you're going to get a lot more buy-in. Because if you're like down and you're like pointing your finger at them and be like, you will do it this way, like, that's not our job, right?

Well, I mean, and the reality is those people that are coming in with that attitude are experiencing the exact same thing. They're like, this is going to change. And their, their threat and their stress is coming from, well, no one's going to accept it. And, and, you know, so that causes you stress. And so you're both in a stressful situation, right? But because you're the boss, you know, well, okay, yeah, you can go that route. But that long term doesn't work out, is, you know, I always, when I was a kid, I thought being king would be great, because you get to tell everybody what to do. And I think entrepreneurs kind of get at some level like, well, I get to make the decisions. But I didn't understand when I was a kid, the king's court. I'm like, ah, the king's court is the one that actually makes all the decisions. You know, they influence the king, they influence others. And it's like the king doesn't make the decisions by themselves. Right. And they don't get to just do whatever they want. If those people end up being tyrants and then the court kills them, you know, that's what happens to them, right? Like, we'll get rid of this guy and get someone else in. Right. And that's what happens to you as an entrepreneur. Like, if you have that attitude of like, well, this is the way it's going to happen. Because this is just the way I want it, your court's going to kill you. It may be— probably not literally, but, but, you know, they'll, they'll leave. They'll, they'll start manipulating things around you to, to avoid you, to—

right.

And so, you know, this idea that you as an entrepreneur get to have your way doesn't work that way.

It never does. And, you know, you have to, you know, you have to look at it from all different angles, right? You have to look at like, um, top management, like how are they handling this situation. Need to look at middle management, how are they handling it. And then you need to look at the employee level, and that employee level is the most important level because if the employees are not happy, I am going to tell you, whatever change you're implementing is not going to go as smoothly as you think it is in your head, right?

It sounded good on paper.

This looked really good in my flowchart. Yeah, this is not working.

No, no. Yeah, you have to get the engagement. And to your point, it's got to be one-on-one and it's got to be personal. It's got to be relatable because that's the way the world works. It may seem like it's a wasted effort, but— and, you know, it's golly, I got to talk to everybody and I got to get their buy-in. Yeah, you do. I mean, that's, that's, that's what has to happen.

And, and keep it simple, right? Like, give, give like edible chunks. Don't, you know, don't give them a 14-ounce like fillet and say eat all this right now, right? No, give him baby chunks. And like when you're giving them homework, give them little bits of homework. Don't just like pile it on, because I will tell you 9 times out of 10, this project that you're working on with them is not the only thing they're working on every day. They have a day job. In some case— some cases, their moms, their dads, you know, they may have something going on. You know, approach it with kindness. Like, you know, don't be a jerk, because that is the number one way to get kicked off this contract, to get killed. Yes, and to get killed. And like, we don't— and nobody wants to get killed, because you know what, as an entrepreneur, you still need to put you know, food on the table, you still have bills to pay. And, you know, approach it with a little joy because you're out there making a difference. And like, in most cases, we are subject matter experts in our field. Yeah, approach that with like, I know what I'm talking about, but hey, if you have another idea of like how you want to approach this, always listen to the customer. They're not always right, but at least listen to them. Sure.

Well, and I would say, as an entrepreneur, I tend to overcomplicate things. And so when I'm going to explain something to an employee, I want to give them my perspective, like the big picture and what all the impact this changes. And they don't need to know that. You're just confusing them. Just focus on it from their standpoint, like their viewpoint. Like, this is what's going to change, and let's talk about that. Because they don't need to— I mean, some may want to, and that's great, but like most of them, they're not you. So like, they're not, they're not going to ask those questions. Yeah, that's great, Christian, why are you telling me all this? I don't need to know.

It's, it's, it's so funny too, and You know, customers— like, here's the best thing you can do as an entrepreneur: put your customer shoes on. Pretend you are them. Pretend that you are talking to you as a customer. Like, are you making sense? Um, are you understanding it? Are you— you know, do you have some compassion and some empathy for what they're going through? And that goes a long way. And showing Showing those traits doesn't make you weak. It makes you human because we're humans working with humans, not humans working with robots. I mean, if you want to work with robots, just go use ChatGPT. But, you know, not all of our customers are, you know, technical. Not all of our customers like change. Not all of our customers understand what's happening. So if we humanize that side of it, It makes things so much easier. And occasionally you get a laugh out of them, right?

Like, and I can get a laugh out of anybody.

I can get a laugh. And like, if you do something, if you're showing a customer something and you mess up, like, don't negative self-talk yourself, right? Because the customer is going to hear that. Like, you're gonna do that, do it inside your head. Don't have those words come out of your mouth.

Prefer you not do it at all. But if you're going to—

yes, if you're going to, just keep it to yourself. But like, have fun with what you're doing, because 9 times out of 10, the reason you became an entrepreneur is because you were tired of what you had before.

That's— that is correct. Gretchen, how do people find out more about Schozer Solutions if they want to know more?

So if you want to find out more, you can go out to schozersolutions.com. If you're interested in a consult, I give a free 30-minute consult. You can book it right there. I'm on all the social media platforms, and I, I get to love what I do.

Perfect. Listeners will have that link in the show notes. If you like what you heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Until next time, remember, you are not alone.