Why Audio Matters More Than Ever | Randy Kemp

Hey creative, are you ready to discuss profits? The money, the ways to make it happen? The Profitable Creative Podcast is for you, the creative, how you define it. Videographers, photographers, entrepreneurs, marketing agencies, you get it. CEO of Core Group and author Christian Brim interviews industry experts, creative entrepreneurs, and professionals alike who strive to be creative and make money at the same time. Sound like you? Tune in now. It's time for profit. Welcome to another edition of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Managua, Nicaragua. Have been to Managua, actually. Beautiful country, lovely people, shitty government. It's actually the second communist country that I have visited, and I do not recommend. In any case, joining me today, Randy Kemp of RK1 Productions. Randy, welcome to the show.

Thank you, sir. Thanks for the invite.

Well, as we were discussing off air, it was kind of forced on you. So it was, it was one of those— I asked a LinkedIn question of who would you absolutely tune in to listen to And Randy's name was contributed.

So if we— down the list though, wasn't it?

No, no, no, you weren't that far down. No, not at all. Okay. So why don't you tell the listeners a little bit of your story, who you are and what you do?

Well, in listening to your podcast, the who you are question is a pivotal question. Yes. So the who I am is a, I'm a dad. I am an alleged business owner. I am a creative. I am a guy that has worn many hats, but mostly in the media realm, media and advertising realm.

Well, let me interject here that Randy is our audio engineer, so, or audio producer. I don't know what would you call, what's the title?

Well, currently I'm your editor, but you know, you can label it any way you want.

You want to be the producer?

Sure. Okay. Do I get a raise?

Yes. Yes. You get a raise with that. Yes.

Just got to ask, folks.

You got to ask. Randy's listened to all these episodes and gets to make them sound even better than before. So media. You have gravitated towards audio. Why is that? Why do you prefer the audio format?

Way back in the beginning of my whole life in this, which goes back 57 years, my greatest attraction to media was the theater of the mind. Radio and audio did that back in the '50s and '60s especially. Far more than now. But back then, our family would travel cross-country to relatives' homes during the holidays. We'd listen late night to radio stations like WOAI in San Antonio and KSL in Salt Lake City that had these really engaging programs that were either air personalities who were really connecting to people that were, uh, interested, or, um, uh, it was a radio drama like CBS Radio Mystery Theater, and it was just captivating because your mind could paint any picture you wanted. Yes, with the sounds that you were given.

Yeah, and, and I think about, you know, video obviously seems to be the 800-pound gorilla that everybody wants to produce in, and Frankly, I didn't want the hassle. It seemed like a lot harder to get a good product. But as you mentioned that, I think there is a— what's the word— an allure to the audio format, whether that's like books, you know, audiobooks or podcasts. And, and it, it's something you can't get with video. Although what I find interesting— this is, this is— and I like your opinion on this— it's, it's, it seems like a lot of people turn on video, YouTube, uh, and just listen to it in the background. They don't actually watch it. And I read where streamers like Netflix, uh, were asking their screenwriters to start writing the scripts in formats that were easier to follow when you weren't watching the show. Like, they recognize that people are on their phones while they're watching Netflix, and it's really more an audio experience than a visual. What do you think about that?

There are a number of podcasts that I follow that are video podcasts, but I listen to them. Because there's nothing engaging necessarily in the video. It's just talking heads. Right. And the audio is far funnier or far more engaging or informative. Right. Than watching them watching people talk. I can listen to you. I can drive from here to downtown Oklahoma City in 20 minutes and listen to a podcast. Right. If I choose to do that, but I'm the ears. I find that I personally retain more if I hear it than just seeing it. Way back in the day when I owned a studio location not far from my home, but it was a really nice, pretty location. We had, we would often host field trips from universities and high schools that would come in and want to take a look at audio and video and that whole thing.. And my comment to them was, back here's where they shoot the video. Here's where we do the audio because the video doesn't mean anything if you can't hear it. And, and I find that for most of the video content that's out there, especially on YouTube, they pay very little attention to the audio. It's all about attracting you with a clickbait picture. It has nothing, which may or may not have anything to do with the content. And, uh, yeah, it's deceptive.

Well, that's interesting. So you, you have had, uh, experience with a lot of changes in technology. Um, how do you see this current— is there more, is there more of a boomerang back to the importance of audio than, than before with what's changed with how people are consuming things?

I think there is. I saw a recent report yesterday from a blog I follow called Inside Audio that said that 90— these are ballpark numbers because I don't remember exactly, but essentially 94% of all Americans, adult Americans, consume audio daily. Audio specific, 94%. And that of the workforce post-COVID that is returning to the office situation, of them, the percentage is in the upper 80s, low 90s that are actually listening to radio specifically at work, which is kind of a return to the way things used to be.

I mean, radio stations were fire sale for a couple of decades.

I mean, like you could just buy them for nothing. Yep. And there are some that I'm sure that you still can. And I personally have a complaint with corporate broadcasters over the way that they've treated their product because people are returning to it now. But there is a tremendous move right now away from— and you see it on YouTube and you hear it other places— a move away from human being the human being on the radio. It's, uh, there are more AI voices out there now than ever, and which I find absolutely atrocious. They're, they're not engaging at all. There's no humanity.

And I tried the AI on Spotify when it first came out, the, the disc jockey. Oh yeah. And I joked when my son was playing his, I'm like, well, how does he do your show and my show at the same time? Like, and, and Right. And, but I stopped because it was like, one, he wasn't, I understand the algorithm probably hadn't changed that they were just slapping this AI voice on top of it. But I'm like, he would go from, it was not curated, you know, and I understand I probably freak out the algorithm at Spotify because my music taste is all over the board and I wouldn't know how to curate it. But the reality is that, you know, whether it's a DJ or whether it's an on-air host, there's a connection with the listeners where they kind of flow. And there is something there that can't be replicated by AI.

That's correct. Way back in the radio days when I was in radio, one of the things that we really hung our hats on was being more than a disc jockey, but being an air personality. And our goal was to make a personal connection with the listener one-to-one while we're talking to hopefully thousands at a time. But that one-to-one connection so that they know that at that specific time of day, I'm going to be on or whoever is going to be on the radio. And they know what they're going to get and there becomes a, there is a relationship with that listener and it's human. And it's because I live in the same town you live in. I'm experiencing the same weather. My team lost last night. So did yours. And we can commiserate together and AI can't do that. It pretends, but it can't.

So, What are the probably the biggest failures, for lack— I don't want to be negative, but failures that you see currently in the way people do audio?

Failures?

Well, I'm thinking back, you said something previously, but you've said it to me before about like how video people like audio is like second, second fiddle, or maybe not even in the orchestra. They're not even paying attention to it. Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that Full Commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now.

Well, I think a lot of people are really concerned about the quality of the picture because their focus is on the video and they spent $5,000 for that camera and they want to get everything that they can out of it. And they'll plug a couple of maybe pretty good microphones into it to try to capture some audio. But, um, uh, the performances aren't designed for audio, they're designed for video. And so then they'll go back in and they'll do looping or ADR, and they'll lay re-recorded voices over that. And if, if they've got a budget, they'll hire a sound designer who'll put all that together and make it sound pretty and, and that kind of stuff. But most of the stuff that you see on television right now, for a television commercial or for short-form video, I find that there is very little attention paid to the audio. In fact, I was noticing this yesterday trying to watch a golf broadcast on ESPN on the app. And the audio for the commercials is here and the audio for the broadcast is here, but the audio for the background of the broadcast is here and you can't hear any commentary. And it's It's like all over the place. It's like nobody's paying attention. And, uh, and I think that's, I think they expect everything to be plug and play and it's just not that way. You've got to have, you need a set of human ears to kind of blend all that together. Yeah.

I, I remember, uh, our friend, you, you know, Steven Short, right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. I, yes, I knew you knew them. So, so I remember him, uh, he was in my office and, uh, we were talking about my, my, my setup here. And, uh, he was like, well, I can hear my own voice. And I'm like, you can? Like, he— in whatever microsecond, the, the, the reflection off the wall, um, he could hear. But he's a trained musician and, and sound guy. And like, to your point, there, there's a skill set there that, uh You got to have somebody involved. And it's, I don't know if it's, if you're born with some talent to have that or if it's completely learned, but I certainly don't have it because I'm like, I don't hear myself.

Sorry. I think there are people that are born with it and other people that do learn it. And I think it is something, but I think it's a very human thing. I know that there are programs and apps and plugins for audio producers out there to automate through AI to try to handle some of that stuff. But in my opinion, they all fall short because there's not that human element. Somebody wrote an algorithm based on their own hearing, but it's not maybe necessarily— that wasn't done in the room I'm in or in the car that I'm in or with the headphones I'm wearing or whatever it is. And And so I think it just falls short. I think I miss humans being involved in life.

Yes, very much so. So tell me how, because, you know, again, you've got decades of work here and then you've got, you know, different business models over the year serving different people. How have you adapted to, over time, those changes in technology to your business model?

You know, that's a constant struggle, I have to say, for me. I started in the age of quarter-inch magnetic tape, AM radio being king. For the time that I was in television, it was magnetic tape recorded videotape, 2-inch videotape, and then 1-inch and 3/4-inch videotape. And then as the transition has moved more to the digital area, everybody wants to have the newest, next best, beautiful app or program or method of doing digital recording of any kind, audio or video. And it's very difficult to keep up with it. And it's expensive. So it's, I'm of the opinion, you gotta find a spot and land on it for a while. And which we have done, I have done. And I try to produce the best product I can with that and provide a value to a client that says, yeah, I want to come back to you.

Yeah, I think there is a tendency, and you and I are old enough to know better, but, you know, there is a tendency to be distracted by the newness, new technology, new channels, new formats, whatever. That you feel like you have to change in order to keep up. But to your point, it's expensive. And, you know, I think in my book, one of the things that I discuss is shiny object syndrome. And it's like, yeah, you may want it because it's cool, but is it going to make you money? Is it going to solve a problem that you have with your clients or customers?

Right? Right.

And oftentimes the case is no, which means don't spend the money. But it's hard.

Well, for instance, the audio program we use is Pro Tools, which was developed by Avid back, going back to the late '90s and through the 2000s. And it was a, when I began on the program, it was version 4.1. Now it's a subscription-based model, which I personally abhor. And, but we're stuck in it. And it's, I'm on version, not using it at this moment. So I can't look at it, but it's like version 2020 5.10 or something. And it gets updated. But it's like, I don't need everything this thing does now. I don't need all of that, but I'm kind of stuck in that quagmire. It's really hard to get your shoes out of that quick stand.

Yeah. And, you know, the recurring revenue model is what all of the investment dollars push, you know. So if they— if somebody's investing money in a company, they want that recurring revenue. And virtually all software has changed to that, um, which, you know, some of the listeners may not be old enough to remember where you bought a software license and then you, you owned it, and then the new version would come out but you didn't have to buy it and yours worked just fine. That's right. And, you know, I think we did lose some of that because that's the thing is it's kind of a catch-22. If they're going to charge you every month for the software, then there's this kind of like, well, I need to update it. And it's like, well, why do you need to change it if it's working, right?

Well, and for digital software in particular, and certainly on our side of things, not only does the the software itself update, but so does the operating system of your computer. And are they compatible? And do you update your operating system if it doesn't work with the programs you use? And how far behind does that put you with your computer and its proper operation and all that kind of stuff? And it's like, they don't talk to each other. They don't care. They're all just trying to get your money.

No, and we're in, Financial software, uh, it's, it's one of the ones that kind of has withstood, uh, the technology change in the sense that they're— and they're little pockets of this, you see it in banking, uh, as well. But like, there's some of these software companies that have a product that's just a cash cow. I mean, it's virtually all profit, and they're owned by very large companies. But then what happens is they have zero interest in putting more money back into the product to develop it. And to your point, the, the, the, the technology around it has changed, and so you're stuck with outdated software, but you don't have any choices. Like, I mean, There are 3 companies that make commercial tax software for CPA firms, and one of them is into it. And so I won't do business with them on principle because they're competing against me. But frankly, there's— it is not the best product. I mean, it would be a hard decision if they had a better product, but They don't. But, you know, I can't get it to talk to any other programs. You know, it won't— it doesn't play nice with Windows. And, you know, it's just you're stuck with it. Sorry.

Yeah, it's that way on the audio side too. And I'm sure video— I know less about video than audio, but the There are a lot of companies now that are producing audio recording and editing software, but most of them are designed for the independent music producer, the guy that's going to set up a studio in a spare room or maybe on his garage and is going to try to make, you know, become the next, you know, big bang. Let's go for Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan actually was around at a time when he could actually make some money with his art. Now you can't. It's very difficult unless you become, you know, it's difficult to be a Taylor Swift.

Yes.

She's making money and there's probably a whole lot more behind the scenes than I know about all that stuff, but you want to be on Spotify, everyone wants to be on Spotify, and you'll get fractions of a penny every time your song is played. It's because they don't pay. And, um, and it's that way with other streaming services, but this audio software is developed for people who want to pursue that. And, uh, and it can be relatively inexpensive. Some of it's absolutely free, but it doesn't have the functionality that other levels do. And you just gotta, you know, kind of pick your poison in that, in that field.

Yeah. It's, and, and, uh, I think it kind of goes to the underlying thing, which I talk about in my book and I talk about on this podcast, is as a creative entrepreneur, I think you can't get hung up on your skills. You have to look at what problem are you solving and where is it that you can bring a solution that maybe it involves your skill set, but maybe it doesn't. Maybe your skill set solves part of the problem or even a majority of the problem, but not completely. And then there's additional elements that you can bring to the table to completely solve the problem and make more money. I was talking to one of my video producer clients, and he primarily works with— well, he's a videographer, but he primarily works with, uh, documentary production companies. And, uh, I'm like, well, why did they hire you as opposed to XYZ videographer? He goes, well, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I, I— and, and we talked through some of the feedback that he got from these producers, and it was clear After talking to him for about 30 minutes, and I'm like, well, you bring order to chaos. That's what problem you solve. Because I don't know how many independent producers you've been around, but they're usually chronically disorganized, right? And, and, you know, he came to the right set location with the right gear and the right crew, and he performed as expected. And that was his real value-add, was that he was organized, which sounds like, well, golly, that's not— people aren't paying for that. Yeah, they're paying for that. They may not understand it. They may just like, wow, I really— he's very dependable. But, you know, because the The producer's not organized. They don't know how to get organized or even know that that's why he's choosing this guy, right? He just has a sense of calm because, well, when Shane's on set, then everything seems to go fluently, smoothly. So I'm saying all that. What are your thoughts on that or experience around that?

I, I, well, uh, it is, uh, I think in the service industry, which is what I am in, um, and media is just the manner in which I serve. Um, it is about problem solving and those problems change and it's not always the same answer that you're providing to the client. For instance, I have recording sessions set up on Monday. We are providing a talent, we're providing music selection, we're providing complete audio turnkey production for a particular client. Sometimes all we provide is a voice. Sometimes what we provide is an access to a voice. Sometimes what we do is the whole shebang. And in the end, what we generally wind up doing is saving our client time and money and the hassle of them putting all that together themselves. And so we try to be a problem solver.

Which is distinctly different than saying, well, I can edit your audio or I can shoot your film or, you know, I can create this ad for you. It's a completely different mindset if you go in as a problem solver.

Yes, yes, it is. And I think being a problem solver builds a stronger relationship with a client than just being a service vendor. If I can help solve that problem, if, okay, you need a Spanish voiceover, We, I know where we can go for that. I know how we can accomplish that for you. You need translation? I know how we can do that for you. You want a modern rock music track for this? I know how we can help find one. We can put all this together to get that end result, that end audio product or audio for video product or whatever it is to accomplish exactly what you want to accomplish and save you the hassle. All you have to do is, you know, approve or provide some direction.

I have a question. This is completely off the wall. If I want to license Love in an Elevator, I don't know why I picked that song. Don't particularly like it, but I wanted to license Aerosmith for my intro music. Can you do that?

It is possible, yes, depending on, um, depending on the ownership of the song, who actually owns it, and the publishing rights, and the reproduction rights, and the mechanical rights. There are all levels of rights there depending on how and how well they all play together. Yeah, you can do that, and sometimes it's not as expensive as you might think, but other times it's Outrageous. Uh, but it's, it's a conversation that can be had, and most of the time they're willing to listen.

Yeah, that's one thing before I, I got into this that I realized I did not know. I had Peter Thiel on the show. I don't know if you know him. Um, he, he's, um, a record producer. I would recommend you go back and listen to that episode because it, it was, it was very interesting. Um, and his his experience. He's a similar age as you, but he, he, he's a— he was a performer and then a producer. And, but to, to the point was all those levels of ownership, um, you know, like each— I didn't understand, like each recording is a separate license. Like if someone records it here but then they record it there, same artist, it could be two different licenses. Good. Um, and then like the distribution and all this and all these layers of intellectual property. I was like, oh wow, this, this gets kind of complicated. I, I didn't, I didn't understand where, where all the points were that you could make money. So I guess then I'll follow that question up with, if, if I wanted to license that, is there some service, or is there some service that kind of acts as a repository for clearing those rights?

Uh, there are a couple of agencies that are research agencies that, uh, act on behalf of the publisher and the owners of the song, uh, to help negotiate those rights. Uh, there are, um, I don't— there probably is a repository like you're talking about, but I'm not—

But it's not like if I came to you and said, I want to change my intro music to Love in an Elevator, there's not some service website that you can go in and pay the fee and download the track to use?

Not specifically like that, no. I'll give you a great example. There is a casino here in Oklahoma that is using Red Bones, "Come and Get Your Love," and the lyrics have been resung to "Come and Get Your Luck." That was a direct negotiation between a representative from the casino and the band. There were surviving members of the band who owned the song to say, "We want to do this," and they said, "Yeah." here's what it's going to cost you, but here are caveats. You can only use this much of it. You've got to use it in this order. You've got to— that the opening intro has to stand by itself. They put all these requirements and restrictions on it. And they said, okay, we'll do that. And they paid the fee and now they've got the song. Interesting. And we, our studio did the resync for them and out there. And that's the only reason I know the story, but it cost, it was 6 figures, but now they have rights to use that. Now what the timeframe, right? I don't know. There was another instance, it's been 15 years ago now. We had a client that came to us and wanted us to use a Casey and the Sunshine Band song and to get the rights for that particular song. And so, which was, do you remember which song? Shake Your Booty. That's a good one. Yeah.

So I was a kid when KC was— Okay.

I was playing that stuff on the radio. Yeah.

I was probably listening to you on the radio.

I didn't know it.

Woo-hoo! What station did you work for?

Well, back at that time, I was in Texas. Okay.

Well, then I wasn't listening.

Far West Texas. So—

Banished. To Far West Texas.

Oh, oh, but we had a blast out there. We had fun. But I digress. So, uh, so in trying to find out how we could get Shake Your Booty, uh, we went to a couple of different, um, clearinghouse agencies working for the publishers, and they both came back with the same result, that that song was owned by 3 different not people, but entities. And each wanted a certain amount of money. And the end result was it was going to cost us a quarter of a million dollars to use that song for 13 weeks.

Wow.

Wow.

Well, you know, and it's interesting. One of my, going back to this intellectual property thing and all of the maze that's out there, One of my favorite bands when I was a kid was, uh, Wall of Voodoo, and, uh, they sang on Mexican radio. That was their popular song. But the, the album that they, uh, that was my favorite is not available on Spotify or Apple Music. So, you know, I don't know why, but like somebody else produced that has the licensing and it's not available. I haven't checked to see if it's available on— if anybody's reprinted it in vinyl. That's an interesting question.

That would be— that would be cool.

Well, then, but see, then I need to go and buy a new— I don't have a phonograph anymore, so I need to get one.

And yeah, well, I can solve that problem for you because I've got one and I could digitize it for you.

Nice, nice, man. All I, all I see is me spending money for this, but that's fine, that's fine. I really miss the album. Um, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pivot, uh, here. Uh, Connor, uh, nominated you on the show. What do you think he wants to hear on this? Why did he want to hear you? Hear you?

Oh, that's a good question. I have no idea. Um, Connor is, um, an incredibly talented guy, uh, on his own and would be a very fascinating—

he is, he's scheduled. He is.

Okay, there you go. Uh, he has a, he has a fascinating story, and Connor and I have worked off and on together since the mid-'90s. Um, him as a voice talent, me as an audio producer, and for various clients through the years, and, um, uh, he's got a pretty fascinating story.

And, um, but maybe he had a story that he was expecting for you to tell. Like, was there— I don't know, I'm just saying.

Neither, I don't know.

What's your wildest Conor story? We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna show him wild Conor story.

I, you know, uh, when Conor's in the studio, he's incredibly— he's straight up professional and he's a versatile voice and has national voiceover credits and is, I don't want to say anything wild.

That's disappointing.

I know, see?

So when my daughter came over to re-record the intro, Um, uh, she said she, uh, when she left, she goes, yeah, because I told her, I said, you, you sound really good, you sound really good. Um, and she said, yeah, I felt very professional. And I said, you really should consider, uh, voice acting. And she goes, I hadn't thought about that, I might.

There you go. There are a lot of, uh, places out there, a lot of, um, coaches who are willing to take on voice talent, uh, people who are aspiring to that.

Do voice actors make much money?

Um, if you're genuinely good, you can. Um, if— but I, I will tell you this, not, not everybody who has a good voice should be a voice actor. Yeah. Uh, it's a different mindset, it's a, a different performance technique. There are layers in that. And in fact, I was asked about this the other day, is the typical, "Everybody tells me I've got a real nice voice. You got anything I can do on radio?" Right. No, sir. No, sir. I'm sorry, I don't. But, you know, if you want help in trying to develop your voice, let's see if that really works for you. And the analogy that I tend to use is, There are a lot of people that know how to drive a car, but not everybody can drive Daytona 500. And it's a different skill. It's not just talking. It's not just saying words. It is acting. And it's delivering a message with somebody else's words, but your voice.

Yeah, you're acting. And acting is not easy. I think it comes easier to some people, but my daughter would probably be one of them because she's a bit odd. But, you know, she sounded good.

She, she really did. She sounded good.

Yeah, she— yes. But I, I think I— to the point though is it's, it's not just reading the words and how good your voice sounds. It's, it's, um, the, the the intent behind it, which, you know, is the acting part. Like, I don't— she wasn't trying to portray somebody she wasn't in reading that. But like, if you're going to do, uh, you know, a voice acting for, uh, South Park, uh, you know, you, you've, you've got to act, right?

Right. You've got a character that you're portraying. Yeah. But you're doing everything with your voice. Yes. Right. Facial expressions aren't You don't see those, but they come through, which is crazy. If you know how to act, if you know how to put that together with your voice, then yes, they do. You can hear a smile. You can hear a frown. Sometimes you can hear squinty eyes. It just depends on the texture that you put in your voice and the projection and how you deliver that line.

I used to do telemarketing when I was a teenager. That's one of my first jobs.

And I probably hung up on you.

Well, you probably, and you should have. I hang up on them. Uh, but see, that, that's, that's something of the past. Like, you know, with the no-call lists and stuff, I mean, you don't get what you used to get with telemarketers. But in any case, my— I remember the manager was always talking about smiling while you're, you're talking, and I'm like, I didn't I understand that, but I did it and it worked. I mean, that is true. It is acting. Okay. My last question to you is, if you were going to go back to maybe your 30-year-old self or whenever you started out on your entrepreneurial journey, what advice would you give yourself?

I started as an entrepreneur In 1997.

Okay.

I would have been 44.

Okay.

So I kind of started late in the game. And I sought a lot of advice from people in the same industry.

You were old enough to know better.

Well, which is why many of them said, what the hell are you doing? And I said, you know, I'm just going to try to make a go of it too. And they said, well, welcome aboard. And they're almost to a person, their advice was slow growth. Don't try to grow too fast. Don't try to buy too much. Don't try to move too quickly. Don't try to get ahead of the curve. Don't try to beat yourself down the track. And all of that plays very well and played very well in the beginning. But that it was happening right at a change in technology, which then was growing faster than I was pushing at that time. I did everything on my own. I was the sole employee for the first 8 years, 9, first 9 years. And then I brought on one employee, my son, who happens to be very good at this too. And he and I have worked together since 2006.

Yes.

And just recently we've gone through another change. That is that he's breaking out more on his own. And we, we still work together, but he's not specifically an employee in the way that he was before. So there are business changes. So had I been smarter, and looking back now, I would probably have found more ways, or how do I bring someone else in to handle this piece of the business that I don't want to deal with? That I don't like and don't do well. How do I bring somebody in to handle this while I can pay attention to the stuff where I really have more value? I would have done something like that. And bringing Matt on did help with that in a great deal. Right. And we were able to, there for a number of years, we doubled our workload.

Right.

And we were, we made a decent living. Right. But then as technology continued to change and as attitudes about it continue to change and as the focus was so much more on video that audio was getting left behind, some of that began to dwindle and I probably did not handle that well. So I would probably go back and know that something like that was coming and how do I, how do I get not necessarily ahead of the curve, but how do I anticipate that better and meet that challenge better than I did.

I think that is sage advice. And I'll summarize it and then you tell me if I summarized it correctly. I think entrepreneurs, when they start out, one, I don't know at 44, you would've been shocked, but a lot of first-time entrepreneurs are shocked of like, "Oh, shit. I'm responsible for everything." And they realize all the things that they didn't know, but now they're responsible for. Right. And that can be overwhelming. And then they get a handle on it and they're figuring it out and they're doing it all themselves. But the most important— I think the most important thing to do is to leverage your time because you can't— you can do all of it, but you can't do all of it well. And eventually you're going to run out of time. And so it's working on that 80/20 principle of what's the 20 to 30% of things that I do that I'm best at and brings the most value. And I'm going to delegate, eliminate, or automate the other 80%. Is that a good summary of what you said?

Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate. I would like to bring people into that equation as opposed to— when you say the word automate, I kind of get the rigors. Only because I like working with people. And I like providing a value for people. And I like, one of the great things about what I get to do, especially when we bring in other talent, like a Connor or like an Andy Schwab or a Julie Self or some other voice talent or Matt Kemp, whenever they can come in and work with us, they get a piece of the pie. But they also, but they're creatives as well. And they are able to, to benefit and participate. And I love that. I love that.

I, yes, the, and I think that's an element that in today's technology world is, is missing along for a lot of creative entrepreneurs is that community and in-person connection and collaboration. Yeah. And then the second thing you said, I'll summarize that as just saying of pivoting. And it's to your point, like not getting ahead of something, but being aware of what's coming and planning for it. And I think the pace of that change has increased. I think that it will continue to increase. Yes. And having the bandwidth to see it. And that means that you can't be always working on your business. You have to set aside some time, some energy to step back and kind of survey the field and say, okay, what's happening? What, you know, kind of longer-term thinking. And that longer term may just be 6 months, but it's at least not what am I doing today or this week.

And I think I did that sporadically. I don't think I did that with enough intention or necessarily foresight. Maybe not the word. Foresight is what I'm trying to use, but I don't think that I was— my timing was off at certain times. And being able to say, here's where we're headed. How do we get ready for that? Okay, here's what— and then make decisions to say, here's how we're going to get ready for that and how we're going to address this. And there were times when I think I did it well and times when I'm not sure that I have. And still, I'm still allegedly in business and I want to be, right? That's— and see, that's the thing too. I want to do this.

Right.

I love who I get to do this with and for. Right. And I want to continue that. I'm not ready to throw in the towel, white hair notwithstanding.

Well, so I think one of the most powerful things we did was we implemented EOS, Entrepreneurial Operating System. The book was Traction by Gino Wickman. And the way he structures it is a quarterly rhythm. And so, once a quarter, every 13 weeks, even if it's just you, you don't have to have employees or a team, every 13 weeks, you're pausing and resetting. And it actually, there's some science behind it because, you know, If you set a goal, a New Year's resolution, when do those most burn out? March. Because that's our attention span. That's our energy level. And so you can focus on something for a short time, and then you've got to reset. And so that quarterly rhythm actually really helps. And then one of those times is looking for the upcoming year. I think, you know, trying to plan— it used to be people had 5-year plans, and then they said, well, that's too long. Now we're looking at 3 years. And I'll be honest with you, it's hard to plan for 3 years. Like, I don't have any clue what this looks like in 3 years. I mean, 1 year is hard enough, right?

Well, attention spans are growing shorter. I think people are getting restless. I had a conversation just this week with the person who cuts my hair, and she is a 20-something talking about, gee, is time speeding up? Because, and I'm like, yeah, it is. And the analogy that my son uses is like, it's like your life is like a roll of toilet paper. And the closest you get to the end, the faster it goes. And Andy's okay. I get that. And that kind of resonated with her as well. And attention spans are shortening. People have, I think, attitudes about, even as an employee, I think there are attitudes about what do I want to do? What job do I want to have? And what's more expendable, me or that job? You know, people have no problem leaving a job now after 6 months because it doesn't align with whatever they want that job to align with. And so, and we, and we see this everywhere. And just going back to a media example, way back in the day for television and radio in particular, radio ratings, Arbitron and Nielsen had a diary format. Format that you would fill out your week's worth of listening. And, uh, and to count as— and they divided up into what was called cumes, or how many people were actually listening, and quarter hours, how long were they listening. And to get credit for a full quarter hour, you only had to listen for 5 minutes. They've changed that model now. It's 3 minutes. Now they backed it off because of attention spans. And if you'll go look at algorithms for what counts as a view on YouTube, 3 seconds, right?

3 seconds, which is nothing.

Yeah. That's a blink.

Yeah. It probably means something to their business model, but as a producer, like 3 seconds is nothing. To me. It means that you might as well have not watched it.

I mean, right? Yeah, yeah, you didn't catch any content.

No, no, you might have caught the name, maybe, if it may be done right. Randy, thank you so much for your experience sharing, your time. I appreciate it.

Oh, you're welcome. Thank you. Thanks for even asking.

Absolutely. Well, it's Connor's fault.

Well, you know, blame Connor.

We will. Um, is there anything you want me to ask him when he comes on?

Ask him what the craziest Connor story is, because I don't know what it is.

Okay, we're going to find out, and you can tune in and listen.

I will.

Listeners, if you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, let us know. Shoot us a message, and we'll get rid of Randy, and I'll just edit that part out. Until then, ta-ta for now.