Working with Creative Entrepreneurs | Jeremy Doorn

Some of these guys, all the stuff these guys are doing, it's just like, it's so cool to hear about. Like, it's super exciting, um, to me to hear all the cool stuff that they're doing. And it's a— and it's, it's also opened my eyes to, holy moly, there's like— and this is, this goes back to why I continue to work at Core— is that there's just this never-ending, oh my gosh, somebody does that for a business and makes money doing it? Like, I didn't even know that was a thing. There's so many things out there, and it's just endless, right? And so they're, they're just a lot of fun. And I think that they, you know, I'm not a classically trained accountant either. Um, so I don't, I don't do the accountant speak super well. And so these clients really don't want the accountant speak. And so I think it's just, it's just this match made, like, it's just lovely. Like, it's amazing to talk to them.

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Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion Into Profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is Jeremy Dorn of the Core Group.

Jeremy, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Oh, well, like you had a choice, right? You got voluntold, right? Yes. Tell us a little bit about what you do at Core.

Well, I don't know if you said I was— I'm a relationship manager here at Core.

I didn't say that. You said that.

Alright, so I'm a relationship manager here at Core. So I manage accounting clients, help them understand their financials, manage that relationship. We do tax planning, we do, you know, some financial planning throughout the year for the business, making sure that the numbers are where they need to be. And if they're not, maybe ways of trying to help them better those numbers.

I remember a client that was talking about his discussions with you, and he described them as transformational. Now, I don't know most people, uh, you know, that would listen to the description of what you just said would be transformational. So maybe expound on what you do that is transfer— transformational to your clients.

I think it's an understanding, teaching them, showing them what the numbers mean, showing them how to potentially save money, showing them different ways of structuring stuff so that it's better for them. Transformational, that is hard to live up to.

I didn't say it. Your clients said it.

No, I understand. I really just think it's a matter of of helping them make better business decisions based on actual numbers, helping them understand those numbers. And then just that the planning— I think the planning, um, I think a lot of times when you get with an accountant, it's a once-a-year time thing. Bring me your crap, we do taxes. That's fun. Um, I think it's the proactive, the, the planning throughout the year that really is what clients are value the most, for sure.

Well, I'll feed you an answer since I haven't received it yet.

Sorry. That's fine.

You're talking about planning in a more general sense for the business and the profitability, not just taxes, correct?

Yeah, I mean, we do goal setting beginning of the year. I mean, second half of the year is a lot of tax planning, but yeah, I mean, if profit planning, all that good stuff.

I know that you made the comment to us, uh, when we started doing these quarterly conversations that you were kind of approaching it with like, how are we going to talk about taxes for an hour? And you, you came back after some of the first meetings and you were like, oh, this is great, we didn't talk about taxes at all. What, what do those conversations look like?

Well, like, like I said, I mean, we were super tax focused, but, you know, all year long, that's not, that's not very feasible. So it's, it's really talking about— we get into pricing, have, you know, we get into pricing, we get into, um, cash flow issues, profitability issues, all that, all, all that stuff that, that comes along with running a business, um, which is fun. And then the numbers, and then you also get to learn. I've learned so much about each one of my clients, just all the cool work that they end up doing and all the fun stuff that's not part of taxes or accounting. So it's really getting to know these clients, which has been a lot of fun.

So why do you work at Core doing what you do as opposed to working somewhere else?

Oh, geez. That's a loaded question.

That's a good one.

Not really.

I want an honest answer.

Um, honestly, when I started here, I didn't have a long-term plan. And the more and more I worked here and with, with working with small business owners, because accounting in general I don't feel is very fun.

Um, shut your mouth.

Yes, shut your mouth. I know that's crazy to talk, uh, that's crazy to say, but The more and more I worked with all these different small businesses and just learning all the cool different things that they do and getting to meet new people and every day is a new day. I just love it. And I mean, we've had this conversation before. I, you know, working for a small business, maybe there's one out there besides Core. I haven't looked, but I could never go back to the corporate world or any sort of big business. Anywhere. Like, I love, I love our— I mean, I love that we solve our own issues. I love that it's not super siloed. I love it that we all, you know, get to solve issues and, and help better Core, um, rather than just sitting in office and just doing, you know, one thing, or, or just, yeah, wearing a suit and tie every day. Good Lord.

Do they still do that?

I don't know. I mean, I'm sure somebody— they do like shirt and tie now, no pants, because it's all online.

You don't wear pants to work?

Well, remotely.

Oh, I see.

Okay. Yes. Yes.

Tell us— I know, uh, some secrets about you that our listeners don't. Uh, tell us, tell us about Jeremy. Tell us, tell us interesting things about Jeremy, and don't make me, uh, feed you answers.

I know. So now I'm trying to guess which answers you want. So we'll start with, uh, I'm an avid snow skier, so I like to say expert. My wife mostly gets mad that I call myself an expert skier, but I don't know what else to call myself because I'm—

you know what, you named it, you claim it.

I, I will put that up against anyone anywhere.

You're better than she is.

Way better. Yeah, yeah, she should just see the form and say, hey, it's an expert.

She's just jealous.

Yes. I, I was born in Albuquerque, born and raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Uh, 505, baby.

Um, one thing you might be fishing for is I was a drummer in a past life. Oh, with a band? Yes, yes.

You know what's fascinating about that fact is every drummer I've known is fidgety as shit. I mean, like, they can't sit still. And you're not that way. So like, you know, they're always drumming a beat or, you know, why is that? Well, is it in your head and you just don't let it out?

I think maybe sometimes I'm reserved because if you ask my friends and if you ask my wife and my kids, like when we're driving down the road, I'm banging on the steering wheel and like I'm drumming. And when I'm running I'm air drumming. So I think maybe it's more just a little bit more reserved on—

I see, I see. You don't share that with us.

I appreciate it. I try not to get on people's nerves. Yes, yes. And I wasn't— I wasn't like— I wasn't a classically trained drummer either, right? So I— a buddy called me up when we were 12 and was like, hey, you're gonna— you're gonna be a part of a— well, he said, we're starting a band. And I said, that's cool. And I— and he said, well, but you're going to be the drummer. And I was like, well, I don't know how to play the drums.

You didn't qualify as the singer or the guitar player, so 100%. The drummer was what was left.

That was— that's exactly right, right? But apparently I went and did it. And I mean, I went and he showed me a couple of things, and then he was like, well, I don't know what else to tell you, but go figure this out. But apparently it turns out I have some pretty natural rhythm pretty good natural rhythm.

So can you dance? I'm, I mean, I haven't seen you really dance well, so I don't, I don't know that I'd say you have natural rhythm.

So I do feel like I can dance.

Now you just don't let your freak flag fly, that's the problem.

I have in the past. Well, I used to do hip-hop dance classes with Sarah.

Okay, then, then there's some stuff that I need to see that I haven't seen yet.

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Uh, you were in this band. Uh, tell us about your, your band journey.

I had moved, I moved back to Albuquerque. I was working in California, moved back to Albuquerque. And I start— we started playing. I started playing music with some friends that I played with back in high school, just kind of messed around with, whatever, nothing too serious. And then I moved back to Albuquerque and we were just kind of messing around, just kind of playing songs. And some friends came over one night while we were just sitting around, you know, writing some songs, and they were like, this is really good. And we were like, 'Okay, thank you.' We didn't really think anything of it. And then the more people kept telling us they really liked the songs— because we didn't really do any covers, it was just writing, writing different songs.

Did you write the songs?

No. Okay. I mean, you're the drummer, right? Yeah, I mean, I put licks to them for sure, right? Like, yeah. So I mean, I was— it— so I mean, we had, we had the songwriters, and then we would all kind of collaborate on how the song needed to different parts of it, whatever. Uh, but so we would— and it was just jam sessions, like it wasn't anything special. We didn't think it was anything special. And so then we, um, there's this, there's this little bar across the street from UNM, University of New Mexico, and none of us had ever played in a bar, done anything real like that. I mean, I, I was part of the praise band at church, and like we had done about all the bands when we were in high school. And so like we all been in bands, but we had never done like the whole bar band thing. Well, we're all like, you know, 23 or something at this point, and we're like, you know, maybe that place will let us play. So we went and talked to them, and they were like, yeah, sure, you guys can play. And we were like, okay, I guess we're gonna go play a gig. A gig, right? And so we, we booked that gig. So we went and played this, this gig And one of the guys in the band, his wife's girlfriend's friend was one of the radio DJs, local radio DJs, and he was there. And so I was terrified. And I had been, I had played in front of people before. I mean, I had played in bands before, but it was just, it felt so official that we were in this gig. I don't even think we made any money. They just let us come play because we were just playing original stuff. So everybody really enjoyed it, including this guy that was one of the local radio DJs. And so we just started playing all around Albuquerque. And then once we— then we decided that we wanted to record our own album. So we kind of created a studio at my buddy's house. Yes. And he was a computer science major. So, and he's like super genius. He's now the CTO of Bird, the little scooters that you ride. Yeah, he's super, super smart guy. He got all the computer stuff as far as like the recording. We bought some decent microphones and whatnot. So we recorded our first album. Once we did that, the guy that was the radio DJ, He was like, "Hey, get me a song and I'll put it on the radio." And we were like, "What?" So I remember it. He literally played one of our songs. He brought us in the studio and then he played one of our songs. It was between like the Chili Peppers and somebody else. And it was just like, "Is our freaking song really on the radio right now?" Like, it was awesome. It was a great feeling. So one thing led to another. It was just crazy how things just kept progressing because then we were playing at this one place. They, these owners of this restaurant, bar, and grill up in Aztec, New Mexico, which is Four Corners, this random place, but it's huge tourist area, right? And so they offered us, they offered to pay us, like, they were like, we will pay you, I don't know, $500, we'll put you up in a room, we'll give you all the free booze and food you can eat, and you guys can come up and play. We've got this great little venue. We're like, okay. So we go up there and it was crazy. It was packed and we would sell t-shirts. I mean, we'd just sell— it was amazing. It was, it was crazy. So then those people introduced the other people in Durango, and we ended up playing this Battle of the Bands up in Durango for St. Patrick's Day. Like, we just kept getting these crazy gigs, and then eventually we just decided that if we were going to do something in music at the time, because you couldn't do it like it is now where you just put stuff on the interwebs and do all this fun stuff, we decided that we need to get out of Albuquerque because there was no music scene, not much of a music scene, like not to progress or become rock stars, which we wanted. We all had college degrees. It was like, you know what, let's just go give this a shot. Um, probably should have gone to Austin or somewhere, but we decided LA because I have family there and it's a lot— well, it's a long story, but we— there was a guy, there's a producer that we ended up working with that were like professionally recorded one of our tracks and he was awesome and he was moving out to LA. So we're like, well, we'll try to follow him and follow in his coattails. Didn't really work out very well, but we— so we moved out to LA, tried to be rock stars, and that's where that dream ended.

What was the name of the band?

Evading Alistair.

Evading Alistair.

The first gig, which I was really excited about, The first gig, we— our name, uh, we, we went under Snow Day because who doesn't love a snow day, right? I like that. It's a great band name.

But so is your, is your album available like Spotify, Apple Music, anything?

It's on, it's on, it's on iTunes.

Yeah, nice.

Yes. I mean, so back in the day, I don't know how they do it now, but back in the day you'd have to get on, uh, we had to put the album on I don't remember what it was called. And then you had to sell like 200 albums or something. And then iTunes would pick you up and you could put it on iTunes, right? And so then I guess we eventually made it to iTunes. I mean, we literally didn't make any money, I promise. And we still continue to not make any money because nobody's buying it. But it's pretty cool.

I'm going to go play it.

It's pretty cool that it's still on iTunes and I can go show my kids that it's there, which is a lot of fun. Yes.

So you've been with Core for a while, and here before we really leaned into the creative industries as, as target customers. Um, so you've got experience working with a lot of different types of businesses. Why, why do you like working for creatives or with creatives? Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now.

I mean, the quick answer is they're just a lot of fun. Like they just do really cool stuff. Like it's almost, it's almost like I, I'm living vicariously through my clients, right? Okay. Like I wanted to become a rock star. I never really got to become a rock star, but some of these guys, all the stuff that these guys are doing, it's just like, it's so cool to hear about. Like it's super exciting, um, to me to hear all the cool stuff that they're doing. And it's a, and it's, It's also opened my eyes to, holy moly, there's like— and this goes back to why I continue to work at Core— is that there's just this never-ending, oh my gosh, somebody does that for a business and makes money doing it? Like, I didn't even know that was a thing. There's so many things out there and it's just endless, right? And so they're just a lot of fun. And I think that they, you know, I'm not a classically trained accountant either. Um, so I don't, I don't do the accountant speak super well. And so these clients really don't want the accountant speak. And so I think it's just, it's just this match made, like, it's just lovely. Like, it's amazing to talk to them. Lovely. Lovely. You just used the word lovely on a podcast. Great. Yeah. All credibility gone.

It was lovely.

It was lovely. So Yeah, I did that.

Yes, you did.

Yeah.

What do you find to be some of the common challenges the creatives, uh, encounter?

Oh yeah, so I think, I think it's twofold. I think there's probably like financially, and I think most businesses run into cash flow issues, but I think the— so I think that's one of the challenges, but I think it's the biggest issue is the way that these guys get paid. A lot of them get paid, right? They go do work for these massive companies, but they've got to float all of the costs up front, and they get paid 90 days, and there's like no way to get paid earlier. Um, there's some clients that do nonprofit work that have built businesses that take like 50% up front and then whatever, but I think a lot of these guys just end up having to eat it And it's fine if you've got like a continuous flow of invoices, but the second the market drops for a second, you've got 2 or 3 months with no invoices, then it's like, okay. And then even when it comes back, you're still waiting 60 or 90 days to get the cash back in, and you're having to float that. So I think that, that's one issue that I hear constantly across the board. And then I think, I think, I think on a more personal level, I think it's a matter of balancing that, like, wanting to do super profitable work, but maybe it's not super fun because it's not really getting their creative juices flowing, right? And then having side projects to do to keep that creativeness going, because that's really what they're all about, is being creative. And sometimes you've got to take work that maybe you don't love, but you got to pay the bills.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy, and if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. So how, with, with clients that you've worked with, with Profit First, how, how, how have you seen Profit First change their businesses?

So because Profit First works on a percentage basis, I mean, it really does, it really does help them focus on like just paying stuff out of the OpEx account or saving for taxes or having operating capital on hand for those slower periods, right? And so, so you can kind of build up those you can build up cash for those gaps where they might— because this, this industry, although, well, I say industry in a broad sense, like when I talk about videographers, like I don't feel like— we've talked about it before— that the— there's not, uh, like they're almost recession-proof, right? Because people are going to have to keep marketing, they're going to have to continue doing social media, whatever. But there is downturns and there's there's ebb and flow. And like, you can, you can tell I'll get on calls and like, I'll have my quarterly calls and I'll get on 2 or 3 calls and it'll be like, yeah, everybody just, nobody's spending money right now. And I'll be like, well, it's going to be that kind of quarter. And I'll, and you'll see it across the board mostly is like, you know, people are pulling back marketing budgets or whatever, they're just not spending. And so I think Profit First helps just keep that cash flow there for those times when you, you get those ebbs and flows.

Yes, I would agree 100%. Have you seen where Profit First— implementing Profit First gave them insight into their profitability and they were able to change something in their business that, that was transformational? Like, the, the, they, they, by implementing Profit First, they realize, oh, I'm not making as much money as I should have or could, could have, and I, and using it to fix that.

So I have a client right now that's big into Profit First, and I think she's realizing now that like her percentages where she came up with them were fine. The way that she came up with them was fine, and it was almost according to the book, but now she's realizing she's probably going to have to tailor that because her operating expenses are far exceeding what she's saying that her target is. And so, but her tax account is a lot more than she actually thought it was going to be, or her old accountant told her that it was going to be. She's a newer client. And so I think, so she's really now starting to move those, we're going to start moving those allocations differently to help benefit her more. As far as having those match what's actually going on in the business and then being able to, you know, because she's a smaller business, she can only cut so far, you know, so.

Well, and that leads to my favorite topic, pricing. So what do you, what conversations do you have with your clients around pricing?

So I have two sets, well, I would say not two, probably more than that. But around pricing, there's, you know, there's guys out there that are trying to do like an agency type, like recurring model of like, uh, what do they call it, like a retainer, right, type deal, like a monthly retainer or whatever, right? Um, and there's guys that are shooting for that, and that's obviously from an accounting standpoint, that's great for cash flow, it's all that good stuff, right? Um, and then there's another set of my clients that wouldn't do a retainer if they had to because they call it retainer creep or something, um, where, where you, you do a retainer, clients just kind of take advantage of you and then you feel like— scope creep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Um, and so I think both models can work. You just have to— when you're doing the, when you're doing the retainer, you've got to make sure that you're pricing it for what you're worth. And if they have extra stuff, you got to bill them for it. Like, you've, you've got to, you've got to, you got to make sure you're billing that.

How do you use Profit First to have that conversation?

Uh, I don't know that I have used Profit First to have that conversation.

Yeah, we'll edit that question out.

Yeah, that's fine. The beauty of this. Yes. Yes. I love it.

If you were going to give one piece of advice to creative entrepreneurs, and it doesn't necessarily have to be around finances, but that is your area of expertise. What, what would that one piece of advice be? Without knowing anything about the company, this is just like a general, but most important thing that you like, you need to get this right first.

And they're gonna— they're not gonna want to hear this, of course not, but, but I, I think it's a matter of getting organized. I think that, you know, when we bring on new clients, when new people are coming to us, they're, they're just so disorganized. And so you've got to get it organized, whether it's them getting it organized or somebody like CORE having them organize it for them, or some other accounting firm or whatever. You've got to get organized. You've got to, you've, you've got to know, you've got to know the numbers. You don't have to be an accountant. Like there's, that's why, that's why I tell people all the time, I'm going to, I'm going to teach you what this stuff means. I don't want, you don't need to go be an accountant. That's what I get paid for. But you do as a business owner have to understand some of this. So I would say get organized and at least educate yourself a little bit on what the numbers actually mean. And that's why we do what we do is because that's what, that's the role that we play is getting them organized and helping them understand their numbers, right?

I think that's solid advice. And I think a great place to start in getting organized is reading Profit First for Creatives because that lays it out in a roadmap for you of what you need to do to get organized.

Agreed. Agreed. For sure.

Jeremy, I appreciate your time. I usually at this point ask the guest how to reach you. But you just call Core and ask for the rock star and everybody will know that you're talking about Jeremy.

That's— and they will connect you. Yes.

Well, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you for your insight. Listeners, if you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast with other creatives. If you don't like the content, shoot us a message and tell us what you'd like to hear. Until then, ta-ta for now.

And that's a wrap for today's episode of The Profitable Creative. Until next time, you money lovers. And don't forget, Profit First for Creatives is live via Amazon.

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