Christoffel Sneijders - Unraveling The Mystries Of The 3 Brains Theory

Welcome to iRISE Conversations with Joan. Welcome to iRISE Conversations with Joan, where we bring you inspiring stories and insightful conversations to help you reach new heights in your personal and professional life. Today we have a remarkable guest joining us, Christoffel Sneijders. He is a Master Certificate Coach, a clinical psychotherapist, a hypnotherapist, and an author. His passion lies in bringing out the best in people, helping them overcome limiting beliefs and trauma-like experiences. In 2018, after years of dedicated research, he introduced the groundbreaking 3 Brains Theory. This theory explores the interconnectedness of our head, heart, and gut, shedding light on how these 3 brains influence our thoughts, emotions, and actions. Through his work, Chris has assisted countless clients in navigating their challenges and transforming their lives. He's the author of 2 books, 2 amazing books I might add, How Men and Women Fit: Finally Understand Your Partner with the 3 Brains Theory and Relationships: Which Brain Is Talking? These books delve deep into the intricate workings of our 3 brains and how they shape our relationships both at home and in the workplace as well. Welcome Christoffel to the show.

Thank you so much. Oh, you brought it so beautiful, I could listen to you half an hour. Now you brought it. I know it's recorded. I would just almost say borrow it, steal it, how you, how you, how you presented me. Wow. And on a, on a moody day, I just listen to it to think, okay, the sun is coming down, the summer's coming in.

It's all you. It's all you. We're pretty excited to have you here today. So let's start with a bit about your journey. How did you get on this journey to becoming a Master Certificate Coach, a clinical psychotherapist, a hypnotherapist, and the 3 brains theory.

Yeah, I can give the beautiful story. No, I have a passion for learning and psychology and all that kind of blah, blah, blah, but we all have. And the other flip side, there's another story. I would say I was always seen as like the, you could say, the odd kid in the class, the sweet boy, etc. So-called bully and all this kind of stuff. So I learned to be extremely aware of what's happening around me and to touch and feel people. And like everybody who was somewhere down off his studies, I thought, what should I do? What should I do when I become a grown-up? And I still remember that in those days, IT was just like now hot. So they said, you can have a car, a nice salary, and you do some programming. I said, car, nice salary, I sign up. But by the way, what's programming? So I started in IT, was rather good at it. And a couple of years later, after turning into sales, I became aware and managing a little team, I love to work with people. And when me and the company, say, split up, that means I got sacked because I was, because I would say too stubborn. And I thought I know better than the CEO. And of course, it's allowed to think that, it's not allowed to say it. So, and then I said, you know, I already came aware of a training company in Europe that was number one in that moment. I spoke with them a couple of times. And in my opinion, it was something like, oh, amazing. So when I was sitting there, I think, okay, I'm jobless. What will I do? I said, I'm going to work for them. Long story short, called them and made it happen because they said 5 times no. I said, okay, that's great that you say no. So the only thing we just have to change is to make it a yes. And somewhere They made it a yes and I started to become a trainer in leadership sales and a year later on, I also learned coaching. And then I became aware actually based on the feedback that I'm a rather good coach. And I still remember my first coaching and one of the senior managers sitting there said, Chris, you did an amazing job. And I was looking at him, did I? What did I do? He said, you ask amazing questions, amazing stuff. And I thought, And I asked him again, how did I do that? He said, actually, I wanted to ask you that question. Don't you know what you did? I said, no, I was just talking to the person, getting connected, and really wanted to help him. And I didn't know it at that moment because this is 27 years ago, but that was actually the source of my success, really connecting with people and getting aware. But I never had that connection of how do we then really connect with people? And in that journey, I learned NLP and you name it, I did it almost because 10 years later I got a burnout and I thought, I learned so much, I got a burnout, probably I'm missing a lot of things.

Hmm.

Then I learned all the somatic work because I was so busy in my logical, beautiful head and so much achieving things and being, say, at number one company being important that I forgot to feel. So I learned everything from feeling. I said, okay, I know so much now. I immigrated to Australia, had a horrible divorce and went down again. And I thought, okay, so this is 8 years later. 8 years ago I had a burnout. I thought I learned a lot. Now I again go somewhere down under. So it means I'm still missing a lot of things. And it sparked me even to learn more, also become a therapist. And in that journey of being a therapist, again, I always ask the question also for myself, also for all my clients, who is in charge of my emotions? Who's in charge of my thoughts? Why is it happening what is happening? Why do I, who learned so much, still am not able To change my own moods, my own emotions, my own, my own doubts. Why cannot, why can I not stop my head thinking what happened? Why can I, why can I not stop my think, my head about thinking what will I do tomorrow? And somewhere in that line, I did also then a lot of somatic work from Peter Levine, an amazing trauma specialist, and Robert Dilts, a guru in NLP. And somewhere I heard of one of them somewhere now. Robert Dils loved the somatic part and asked, now, were you busy? Peter Levine, now, it's all about body. And somewhere came where we have a heart brain and a gut brain based on science. And I thought, I wonder if we have a brain really in our gut. That is a book written about in the '90s or in the '80s. Research by neurobiologists, and there's also heart-brain research by cardiologists. So there are real scientists who cut open mouse, dogs, people, and see it. And that's really true with brains. They probably have a role in us. And if they can remember, if they can make decisions, and somewhere maybe I find the solution why I cannot stop my head. Because maybe my head is not in charge. Now, I started to play with that. I started to read more and came where is it? It's true. And actually then my whole journey from three brains somewhere evolved. So this is say the the real story besides of course I really have a real interest in it otherwise I would not do it.

Yeah.

But only say that I have an interest and I learned for that that's not true. I learned also based on the fact that I hit my head a couple of times and got really stuck and said, what's happening here?

Okay, that's awesome, and I love that, you know, because a lot of people when they hear things around, you know, the head, the heart, the gut, they start thinking, okay, here we go again. But there's a lot of science to back up a lot of the things and the research that you've also done as well. So talking about the 3 brains theory, how can you break it down for someone who is not science inclined or someone who's not into any of this kind of stuff, what exactly does it mean in very, very simple terms?

I love that question because I say sometimes I jump in almost being a professor and starting teaching biology, and that's not me. But to make it extremely simple, um, when 500 million years ago, we were somewhere still all swimming in the sea as little creatures, the only thing we did was getting food in Nutrition and pooping it out again. And actually, if you would see that system of us, actually our whole digestive system, mouth up to anus, and we still have that. And what's the purpose or what's the responsibility of actually of that brain? If you talk about the gut brain, is keeping us alive. Where's your immune system? In your gut. You don't have to be a biologist anymore to know that because it's all over the place. If it's now on the popular Facebooks, Instagrams, Twitters, whatever, CNN, Wall Street Journal, you find it also everywhere. And that's true, it keeps you alive. So your gut only likes to keep you alive.

Okay.

Your heart— now, when we were born, how much independent were we? So when a giraffe gets born, it can run Within half an hour. I don't know how it's with you, but it took me, I think, 1 year to get on my 2 legs. And according to my older sister, it took me even more years to have a decent walk. Without our caregivers, without our parents, we're totally helpless and we're dead in 2 days. So bonding is our biggest survival system. We are group animals, just like zebras, just like And how do you bond? Where do you feel your heart? Where do you feel it when somebody leaves you? You feel heartbroken. Yeah. Where do you feel love? In your heart. Your heart actually is a brain that can secrete the neurotransmitter oxytocin. That's the love hormone. It helps you bond. Your heart is actually in us to keep us bonding. So the responsibility of a gut is staying alive, like the Bee Gees were once singing 30, 40 years ago. Yes, staying alive, staying alive, staying alive. And sorry for this representation of the Bee Gees. I'm really sorry, guys.

Yes.

So it is a really egocentric brain. It's me, myself, and I. It's the Olympic champion who just outruns somebody else. It's the CEO who just became the boss. That is the Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator. It's the Rambo from Sylvester Stallone. It's all of that that makes it happen. That was how that Elon Musk would not have all his power to make Tesla and all those other things happening because he makes it happen. You make it happen, Mr. God Brain. But if you see how he dealt with all the Twitter employees, you see what the gut brain also can do. It just sacks 75% of the people by a tweet. That's a gut brain. It's me, myself, and I, I need success. A heart brain person, if you would talk about, say, that would be one person because Elon Musk has more brains. So we have all 3 biology. Richard Branson from Virgin was famous for the fact that if somebody got sacked in his company and he would meet that person in elevator, he would say, Are you sacked? No, that cannot happen. Go on, I hire you again. You have to hire the person in the elevator again. He's actually much more heart-brained in that part.

Hmm.

Therefore, the bonding, the family, and the connection. And it makes sense. Now, why do we have this thing in between our ears? What is taking 20% of our energy consumption? Now, I always wondered, what's the use of our memory? Again, of course, we say, okay, it makes sense. But why would we remember all the happy and not happy things? Why would we remember that? Only if it would make sense to predict the future better. So this 20% consumption thing between our ears has only one real objective, to predict the future. Because predicting the future gives a better chance to survive. So if you look at those 3 things, your gut is saying me, myself, and I, and I make it happen. We have all a little Rambo inside. Your heart is one big, I would say, Labrador dog who just likes to lick your feet and just likes to be connected. And your head is almost like a Sheldon from The Big Bang that is just rational, logical, and just likes to predict. And if you look at those 3 things, It makes totally sense that sometimes we got stuck because if you only follow one, you get detoured. So without getting in biology, we have 3 different setups that helped us in evolution to survive.

Hmm.

So long story short, say, I hope it's simple enough without getting right away in all the details, all the neurotransmitters, And other kinds of things.

Yeah, I think, I think you explained it well enough so people can start to understand that we have 3 different brains and they have 3 different purposes. So it's not like one is useless or the other isn't, but we need to be able to use the 3 of them effectively. And I think that's where a lot of the challenges that happens in the world, especially when it comes to relationships. And I, I want to dive into relationships because in your book or in your talks, you talk about the, the traditional Mars versus Venus fallacy. Like, I read that book, Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus, from Dr. John Gray, and I believed every single word he wrote in the book. This is many, many years ago.

I did this, I did the same. So no doubt about it, because it makes totally sense.

It does. So, so, so, and so you talk about why that is not the best way to look at the male, the man-woman relationship. What is your— how does the 3 brains concept come into this, into play when it comes to relationships?

Beautiful question. And if you think about how psychology is done, all the popular tests we do, but also how John Gray wrote his book, we look at behavior of people and we put them somewhere in camps. Men mostly behave like this, females mostly behave like that. But if you— now you're from Nigeria, I'm from the Netherlands. If you look, say, How Nigerian men and females act is different than how Dutch—

That's true.

So how is it possible that Nigerian female behaves differently than a Dutch female? They're both female. That's what we call socialization. So there's much more difference in those things. Now, if you now come back, what most of us did, and also what John Gray did with a lot of success and a lot of logic, we regarded all that behavior and said, this is how a person Behaves without asking a question: Why do they behave like that? So that we look at the outcome and say, "This is who you are." So that is the same if if you look now at us, we both are wearing glasses. Oh hey wow! You have bad eyes. No, we don't have bad eyes. This is just a representation of now of our past. What is this three brains? Actually says you have. We all have three brains: head, heart, gut. Yes, men and females. Hebben we een difference in zeg de reproductieve organs en testosteron, oestrogeen. Maar eigenlijk we both make those hormones only in a different amount. Is not that we only make testosterone, you don't, or the other way around. We both make only different amounts. So we all have them. If you look at say our three brains. and their responsibilities, what you said, winning relationships and taking care of yourself. What happens in the world in general? Now let's put all the men and all the females now in one basket. When men are educated, what should they be? Strong, decisive, don't cry. If you fall on your knees, you just stand up again and you go on. Hey, don't talk about emotions. Come on. And females were educated to be smart, to be sweet, look good, take care of themselves, all those kinds of things. So we are socialized to show the behavior John Gray is actually exposing and saying, this is who we are. But if you look at babies, babies don't see a difference. Boys still, if you don't do anything different, boys will play with dolls. They will play with Barbie. Girls will play with little cars. But what do we do? It's so beautiful. You go, you go on the street and you see, say, happy parents walking down with their newborn. You look there, say, in a stroller, and you see something with a blue thing on. What is it? A boy.

Yes.

From day one, we are socializing our kids To become how we are, and it makes sense that then they become what it is. And of course, yes, we still have a reproductive system, so we have a little bit difference. Men are in general a little bit stronger muscular and a little bit higher, etc. We have some physical differences, but if you look at us, especially now in the LBTQRSU non-binary binary situation, whatever it all is.

Yeah.

When you let people free to choose who they are, you see much more variety coming up. If we don't compress them, so you have to be male, female, you have to be strong, you have to be sweet, and that makes totally different. So if you then think about relationships, if we just allow to connect with our 3 brains, so it's allowed for me to cry and show emotions as a boy, and it does not— that makes me weak. Or gay, or I don't know whatever's labeled, then I can connect in a totally different level with my partner. And if a woman is just allowed actually to take care of herself and just doesn't have to right away put all her makeup on to make something, and just is still allowed to do so, just say no, I'm going for my own career and it's okay, and we don't then label her as whatever we do, then things just happen. And you see it now happening with female soccer. Female soccer, who would have thought about that 20 years ago, female soccer would exist? Not because that was a boys' game. Females' games, they do perfectly and they're still females.

Yeah.

The same way you could see it in hockey, but that's more a Dutch sport, I have to say. In hockey, males and females were much more allowed both to play it for a long time. And there is no issue with that in that part. And that we, we as society label this as boys like, females like. Like boys is allowed to get dirty, girls don't get dirty. It doesn't work like that. So in a relationship, if we can use our 3 brains, we can have much more and better relationships. Because in the Western world, 1 out of 2 marriages fails.

Yes.

And failing means we break up. And why is that? Because somewhere during our relationship, we become aware actually that our 3 brains don't connect. And we, in our communication together, we don't allow all our 3 brains really to communicate. Hey, I've got multiple long-term relationships or divorces behind my name, whatever you like to label them. So also from my own perspective, I can see, hey, in my own life journey, I become aware that sometimes I was only acting from one or maybe two of my brains and I was not allowing myself to connect from my other brain in a relationship. So that makes a huge difference. Let's stop labeling who we are.

Hmm.

And yes, reproductive-wise, you're a female and reproductive-wise, I'm a male. That's it. And you can be the breadwinner and I can be the home, the stay-home boy. And we are totally, totally okay with that, Joanne.

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a lot of conditioning, a lot of narratives that have kept people stuck. And, you know, you have these expectations of men are supposed to be this way, or women are supposed to be this way. And if you dare try to not be that, then like you said, you're labeled. And then your partner is like, why can't you be like other women? There's complaining, there's all of this stuff going on. And then the relationship breaks down. So for people who are maybe currently listening who feel like right now their relationship is at that point where they're not really feeling that connectedness anymore and they're just thinking it's because I expect the man to make more money or the woman to be more at home or to be more nurturing or to be cleaner, whatever expectations that people have, how can they start to really move away from that traditional male-female role that people like Dr. John Gray have been projecting in the media as well? How can they start to repair and fix Their relationship from—

The first question is, do they like to repair their relationships? Because some people don't like to change. But just imagine they like to change. Let's take that as a starting point. Yeah, if they like to change, it's actually in that part training the 3 brains to communicate inside with you again. I love sometimes to make the comparison. If you have a bicep and a tricep, would it make sense only to go to the gym and train your bicep? No, funny. But we as humans train only one of our brains, our gut brain or our head brain or our heart brain. So it's actually training the other ones to get their voice out again. Because if you're always educated, um, big boys don't cry, you don't show emotions, actually you learn never to listen to your heart.

Hmm.

If you're always educated, you know, you have to be sweet and compassionate and put yourself aside, take care of your little brother, little sister, Be sweet, think about everybody else first. You never learn to listen to your own gut. So when I when I work with people, I see still the traditional things, and and really I'm going to label now females who are not allowed or learned actually learned to listen to their own gut. What is good for me? If I ask them, what do you really want? He said, I don't know. What would you advise me? Hey, I'm not living your life. Come on. I would advise you to listen to your own gut feeling. What do you want? Because they're socialized never to listen to that. Because if they listen to their own gut, it would be less sweet because then they would say no. Because a gut brain says no. A heart brain says yes, of course, I'll put my own needs aside. The heart brain person at the end of the day, everybody's happy with that person and that person sits on the couch and thinks, I'm too tired to do anything for myself. I will just order some fast food. Because even I'm too tired to cook for myself. Well, the goat brain person says, hey, I got all my things done. Everybody works for me. I'm rather happy, by the way. I'm going to the gym because everybody did what I wanted to do then. That's good.

Yeah.

Like, so we also have to learn that relationship. And that's what you a lot of times see if you would label it, that a heart brain person, if that would exist, dominant, doesn't like to have a discussion, doesn't like to have a fight. Because their biggest fear is rejection. So if you're a heart brain person, say we would now portray, I'm a gut brain, you're a heart brain for this moment. And I would say, hey, John, I'm not happy with you. Then you could think, oh wow, he looks angry, his voice is square. Wow, I like to please him. What do you need, Christopher? I need that you polish your nails because you're not looking female. And before you know it, you're doing it because you don't have to fight. Yeah. If you would use your gut brain and say, hey Chris, by the way, uh, I'm not going to do that because I don't feel like it today. So that's okay. Then we have— but I say, I don't like that. That's okay. Sometimes I don't like what you're doing. Why, why don't you start training on your six-pack that you don't have anymore? Yeah, but a heart brain person would not dare to fight. The gut brain person, at the other hand, me in this part, would say This is a normal discussion. She says no, I say no, that's okay.

Yeah.

I don't like it, but that's my normal life. So in your relationship, it's actually learning how we— how, in my words, those brains communicate. A gut brain is used to saying no, so also expects a no. It will not like it, so it starts fighting or attacking or escaping or manipulation. To get the yes, but that that is its normal way, and there is no bad feelings about that. After that, it is something like in the game rugby or water polo. I played water polo sometimes. During the game, you hit each other's face. You squeeze each other's now delicates during the game, especially water polo. Water polo is a dirty game, I can tell you. But after the game, you're sitting all together having a beer or a wine and say, "Wow, you really kicked my." Yeah. Yes, it was a great one. Yes. And when you punched me in the face after, it was also good. And we're all friends again. And that's what we got during the game. Now we fight, after the game, we're best friends again because that is part of the game. We don't call it fighting, we call it game. So for relationships, it's coming away. Hey, that's why I called my second book, Which Brain Is Talking? Which brain is talking? And if you know which brain is talking, you also know, hey, which brain should I then start communicating with? Or what does that brain actually— what is, what is, what is the brain's way of communicating? Because if you know the gut brain is me, myself, and I, you know his or her strategies. If the heart brain is all about us, you also know the strategies. So you can— why not then connect with it? So relationships is coming aware what is my dominant programming? What's my partner's dominant programming? And can we start actually creating a flexible programming that we can use all 3 of them? Long story short, and thank you for being the sweetie heart brain and let me be the badass gut brain for a moment, Joanne.

That's awesome. And, you know, I know you're explaining it and it sounds like it's easy to do, but sometimes it makes sense, but it's not easy to apply. And I think that's where, you know, having like a coach like yourself who's worked with people— you wrote the book, so you have a lot of people to really start to apply some of this into their lives so that they can have better relationships. And I know that the 3 Brains Theory goes beyond just love, romantic relationship. It also talks about the workplace, how you can be a better leader in the workplace. So you already gave 2 examples of 2 very different leadership styles. So like the Richard Branson or the Elon Musk or the Steve Jobs, very, very different leadership styles. And it's just a lot of toxic leadership going on out there. And, you know, again, we're just creatures of habit. Maybe all your previous bosses were this way. So now you're that way. So what recommendation would you have for people maybe in the workforce, in their professional lives, how they can also apply this 3-brain theory so that they can also be better leaders and be a bit more effective and have a bit of heart in the workplace.

Absolutely. I cannot agree with you more, Joanne, that you see a lot of toxic workplaces, but that's actually because all those beautiful MBAs, and I'm officially a professional one, they teach us to compete. You have to get the highest marks. So competition is actually a good thing in MBAs. So we train the gut brain in MBAs and then they go in the workplace. So what kind of behavior do you see? Gut brain. Who gets promotion? The gut brain dominant person. So if that exists, there's no gut brain person but dominant person. So if you think about companies, like, again, if you like to change, um, let's actually ask yourself the 3 questions. Okay, which brain actually is leading in me? And what would the others say? Because the beauty is, and the Gallup organization wrote a book, From Good to Great, I think 15 years ago. And what they wrote in there is actually that they called in that moment or later on servant leadership had outperformed all the AEX stock indexes and actually also all the profitability and all those kinds of things. And those leaders stayed in job for 10 to 15 years even. And if they look at what actually in my view that means, Those were, those are leaders who use all the 3 brains. They stand next, beyond, and in front of their team using the 3 brains. They use the logic to make long-term plans. They use the gut brain to say sometimes no, but they use the heart brain to say, hey, by the way, we're all a team. And it makes a massive difference. So research shows, and actually real life shows, using 3 brains is much more successful in the long run. What's now the pity? You have long run and short run. America is run by 3-month statistics, quarterly results. It's very easy. And Machiavelli already said that a long time ago from the book The Prince. He said, if you have to choose as a leader, and I called it then as an emperor, between fear and love, We would love to choose both, but as both is rather hard to do, it's better to choose fear above love because fear is a one-way street. I can impose fear on you and you're going to do what I say. Joanne, you're going to listen to me. Otherwise, I come over to Toronto. I come to kick your ass so hard you will not walk for 2 days, lady. And of course, they did a big smile, but you know what I mean? Oh, that crazy guy is maybe really getting on the plane. Okay. I just changed my name. Fear is a one-way street I can impose. Love is a two-way street, as Machiavelli says. You can take it away from me. So if you think about leadership, if I take toxic leadership, I get my things done. Otherwise, you get the whip, you get sacked, you get fired. So if you would like to— so in short term, gut brain leadership, toxic leadership works. In the long run, 3 brains leadership or heart brain leadership Outperforms much better. But those beautiful shareholders don't care about five years. They care about what is my revenue three months? Can I sell my shares? What's my dividend? And there's nothing bad about them. That's how the whole system is pitfully set up. So if you are a leader or listening to this podcast, we're doing. That is, what do I want? Because also research shows in the book, um, When the Body Says No from Gabor Maté and other books show actually, if you work from one brain, the end of your life is less happy. Chronic diseases and all this kind of stuff happen much more. And the gut brain people die alone, really die alone. And even their own kids don't like to see them. They just like to know, what's my will, by the way? How much money do I get?

How much money do I get? Yeah.

Yeah, the heart-brain people, they die a lot of times sooner, get chronic diseases because they gave all their energy away to everybody else and didn't do really self-care. The head-brain people, most times they come away rather good. They're just doing their stuff. And if they follow the rules about, let's say, what is good or not good, they go on. So you see it somewhere happening. Steve Jobs, an amazing guy, but based on the misalignment in brains and his own stubbornness, he died much too young, in my opinion. And there's only one horrible thing. There's really one horrible thing. Gut-brain people on average could get older than just heart-brain people. Why is that? Because gut-brain people just stay alive, whatever it costs. Heart-brain people give all their energy away so they stay there, but anyhow, not happy. 3-brain people. And if you go to the book, The 7 Blue Zones of people who have longevity, become all above 100. That is in Sicily, in Greece, in Japan, also an area in America, Costa Rica. In those blue zones, you actually see 3 brain intelligence. The people live social with the community, they eat healthy and do activity, gut brain, and they keep the mind clear about all the things to do. They don't put a lot of stress in there and they have 3 brains alignment and they have longevity and happiness. So it's actually what you like to choose now. For us leaders in the business world, who do you want to be? When I coach people, okay, so the only people, and I love that sentence, it becomes more and more public, the only people who know that you worked 80 hours a week are your kids in 50 years. And then do you think they're happy with that? Now, if that answer is yes, don't listen to Joanne and me. If the answer is no, then please start aligning your 3 brains and become just a better person. In the long run, you will outperform everybody else in health, happiness, also in success and achievements. And as a leader, it's much better. And some companies will not support that. And of course, then you have the choice. But based on the current times, Where would you like to work? Like, fear is the worst advisor in life unless you have 5 people running behind you, then it really is good advice. But staying in your job because, oh, what could happen? Find a job where you are happy. You find much because if you're happy at the end, you also will earn more. You will get more because if you follow your passion, it will pay off sooner or later. That's a long story. about what you could do, why you could do it, getting all some things there.

Yeah, so talking about following your passion, you know, things like limiting beliefs just came to my mind. And most people, if not everybody, suffers from some level or form of limiting beliefs or some traumatic experiences from our past. You've been told that you're worthless, you're useless, you— who the hell do you think you are to do that? And so people are being held back. and now they suffer from all manner of trauma, grief, PTSD, anxiety. There's just so much. People, younger and younger people today are experiencing a lot of anxiety and not really able to move forward with their life and really follow their passions and their dreams and achieve some form of happiness. So how can your work help people to overcome some of these limiting beliefs, these fears that are really, really holding them back?

It's beautiful that you asked it. Why? We all have them. There's nobody excluded from that. And the first thing I say, limiting beliefs are active, are actually, I like to reframe it in protecting beliefs. Why is that? Everything your 3 brains do is coming from positive intention. There's some gurus talk about the internal saboteurs, the, the, the, the, the villains. We don't have them inside our body. Only cancer is one of them. Everything we do comes from a positive intention, only it's a behavior we learned 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. Sucking my thumb was a great strategy to feel good when I was 2 years old. I can tell you, if I do it now at this age and I do it somewhere, people look at me and think, well, okay, should we call somebody? Because this is really strange behavior. You see it happening, me doing it in the restaurant sitting with you, Joanne. You probably would sit there from, okay, I don't know. I thought he was saying Chris, but now I'm starting doubting it. That coping mechanism I learned when I was two years old could be still alive now. That's not happening with sucking my thumb. So everything we learned, what you call limiting belief, was on one moment extremely useful. The only thing we somewhere forgot to turn the coping mechanism or put it in in what I saw the compartment when it's useful. When do you use a kitchen knife? In the kitchen, not with your husband or partner. That's compartmentalization. Where do I use, say, when I have to do number 1 or number 2? We call that a toilet. That's compartmentalization. I don't do it in my living room. That's normal for everybody. So the behavior is extremely positive in the past in that specific situation. So first, like, is reframing it. It's not limiting you. Yeah, it is limiting you in the result, but it comes from a positive intention. It's protecting you. That already gives people a shift. Okay, so actually it's positive because what you'd like to do is get control back over that belief or that traumatic event you once experienced or experienced if you have more of them. And from there say, okay, so if that was useful, then Let's put it back in that compartment. And that is easier said than done. Let's make that clear because I'm a therapist and coach and don't say, okay, let's do the magic wand. I'm Harry Potter. 5 minutes later, you're dancing on the table. Sometimes it happens. I have to say, sometimes I think, oh wow, that went quick. I would love that it would work so quick for myself. Took me a couple of decades. Come on, I'm jealous.

Yeah.

But we can if we turn it. So because your heart, what's the beauty of it? Now, you know, it's a secret. Your head is the only one that knows tomorrow and yesterday. Only in our head we can do cause and effect analysis. And why don't you sleep and think about tomorrow? Because your head is actually then busy. Why do you wake up and think, oh, what should I have said that my boyfriend, girlfriend would not have left me? No, that's again your head running around in the past. Your heart and your gut are just like my dog. They live in the present. So what happened in the past with us, that we wanted to please mommy, daddy, brother, sister, school teacher, I don't know, boyfriend, girlfriend, whomever, your heart still thinks it's now, although it's 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. Same with your gut. So 20 years ago, 30 years ago, I got bullied at school. My gut still thinks, oh, you got bullied. So if you see a guy like that, oh, turn away. That's not happening anymore. That happened in the past. So you can now work with people, or we can do, and the moment our heart and our gut comes to bear, oh, it's not now anymore, really in a second it drops and it's gone. It's just freaking amazing. It's almost like if you would make it simple, I have a dog, so let's talk about the dog. As long as my dog sees it, he's enthusiastic. Mom, he doesn't see it anymore. 2 minutes later, he's totally, totally forgot whatever was there 2 minutes ago. And that's our heart and our gut the same. So a lot of those things can disappear really as sun in now that overheated South Europe I'm sitting in is 40 degrees. It disappears in no time. Only if we push the right button. So yes, we all have them. And I will not say, oh, it's easy and it's your fault. It's not your fault. Everything you learned was extremely useful.

Good point.

So all the things you do, treasure them because they were once useful. The only thing is you don't have to take them with you, the same as you don't take your whole toolbox with you every day. I need my scissors, my knives, my pens, my computer, my hammer. My kitchen knife, my scissors with me. You don't take it every time with you. You leave it where it is in that compartment. What is a traumatic event or limiting belief is actually taking those kitchen knives or my hammer with me everywhere. Now, I dare to bet if I go have dinner with you and I take my hammer and my kitchen knives with me, you probably call 911 and say, lunatic, lunatic, lunatic, take him away, please. Dangerous. And 5 of those beautiful Canadian police guys picked me up, probably, I hope, rather sweetly and throw me in the car because I didn't compartmentalize that. But we can. So for us, step 1 is, it's not a villain, it's not a saboteur. Yes, in the outcome it's resulting, but it's actually extremely positive. You learned it for a positive reason. So let's first reframe that. Because what's the idea why we don't change? If we feel pain, what do we do? We go away from the pain. We move away from the pain. So limiting beliefs, traumas, we like to push them away. We don't like to hold them. The first thing we have to do is actually own ownership again. Hence the reframe. From the reframe, we have to say, okay, so they were once learned for a great reason. Let's allow us to keep that learning where it belongs, in that compartment in the past. Now there are some magic tricks, coaching, therapy tools for that, and it just almost drops off right away. So yes, me, you, but also me, we all need help with that. Although I'm a therapist, coach, wrote a book about it, It's hard to operate on yourself. So I had a coaching session last Monday about something that was bothering me. And I'm having that session, I think, oh wow, I could have invented it by myself, but I did not because it's really hard to operate on yourself. So we all need somebody. And actually, then you come back to the 3 brains. If you are with somebody, and you feel that compassion, just like when we were a little baby, it helps us also to release it much sooner. Because if you fell on your knees or you— I don't know what you did— how much easier was it resolved when your mommy or daddy just picked you up and gave you a cuddle, or that you were sitting there all alone in the playground?

Yeah.

We need somebody because feeling connected our heart brain and our gut brain feel safe and bonding and say, okay, in that place it's also easier to let go or to recompartmentalize whatever I learned. So long story short, I still hope it makes sense to you. Yeah, it was a synopsis actually how you can get through it.

Yeah, it does. Like, I love the part about reframing it too. It's protecting us and not necessarily sabotaging your life, even though it's sabotaging your result and being able to own it. Because I think a lot of people, we play the game of let's just shove it under the carpet somewhere and not— but it's there, it's in your subconscious, it's still controlling a lot of the actions or the inactions that you make in your life.

Absolutely. Yes. Really, really, under the carpet means you're not in control of it anymore, but it still stays in you because we all know you cannot get rid of the, the, the, the body keeps the score from the book from Bessel van Kok. It stays in your body. And actually, scientifically, it's proven that your body does some changes to keep, say, that trauma or limiting belief or that event somewhere stored in your body. Actually, on biological level, there are some changes in your body happening now. And you cannot get rid of that. You can shove it underneath whatever, but then you have still that issue. You still feel that sore muscle, the sore shoulder, the pain in your neck, your stiff, your stiff, your stiff spine. Your hip is not really working. And a lot of research shows also more than 50%, they say even 80 to 90%, all those physical things we have are actually mental things based from a mental thing. Of course, if you go to polo, get an elbow in your face, there's nothing mental about it.

Yeah.

No, that's physically called a broken nose. Nothing mental about that. But if you just— most people have a sore back and go to the physiotherapist. Besides, now your sitting posture, a sore back is because you keep your tension of the fight or flight response tight. Everybody has a fight or flight response or depressed response, not happiness, or more in a fight or flight response, will put tension in his body or her body. And if you keep that tension for multiple months, of course you get sore spots everywhere. Try to hold the glass for 2 hours and your shoulder will not move anymore. Now it's actually the same, only it's not the glass, it's something you hold in your body. So after, sometimes you have one big sore muscle, muscles, organs.

Wow. And I think that's a very, very valid question because again, people think everything is so, so distant, it's not connected. There's a lot of science, a lot of research that really shows that You know, your health, your— the diseases that you have, a lot of it stems from a lot of these things that we hold on to. So just listening to you, I really want to encourage people, maybe even having just a sore neck or maybe a stiff shoulder or whatever it is, maybe it's time for you to start asking yourself those questions. Maybe you've been ignoring things that are actually under the carpet. You've been shoving it down, you've ignored it for so long, but you also know that your life is not moving forward. You also know that there are things about your life that you don't enjoy. you're constantly in this flight or fight mode, you're constantly anxious, you're constantly unhappy, everything annoys you. Maybe now is the time to start asking yourself the question, who's in control?

Yeah.

What's going on? Which brain am I using more of? What are some of the changes you can make? And like Chris said, we know it's not easy. It's not a turn on a switch, the light on, and it's all good. It is a process, but you have to want to be on this journey. You have to be aware enough To want to make a change, to have a better life physically, mentally, emotionally. Like Chris said, I don't want to die alone. I'm sure nobody wants to die alone. So now you can start to make those changes that can really help you to have a more fulfilling life. Chris is here to help.

It's so true. Statistics shows that 90% of breast cancers are actually originating from a mental issue.

90%.

90%, eh? And they call it actually, if you have a lot of grief in your life, the chance of breast cancer multiplies many, many, many, many times for females. For men, it's more testicle cancer and those kinds of things. There is so much research done in that because now we spoke about— so you're living in Canada. I lived in the Netherlands and moved to Australia. Now I'm Spain had the winter depression. Just imagine how, say, the weather affects your moods already. And then in that mood set, you're going to make decisions.

Yeah.

So how can you change it easily? So in that part, and say, Gabor Maté, and I spoke about him, he wrote a book 20, 30 years ago, When the Body Says No, that's actually about when your body says no, because you don't listen to your own body. And he has massive examples of that. What's happening? Well, if you think about Olivia Newton-John, from Greece. Ah, as you were singing it, my head says yeah, and my head says no, my heart says yes to John Travolta. Makes sense, by the way. Kidding, kidding, kidding, kidding, kidding, kidding. But she also died and she had breast cancer. If you look in all her stories, she was an extremely sweet, social, amazing person. You just wanted to cuddle her. Heart brain people or dominant heart brain people have an issue of saying no or to do self-care. So they burn all their energy for everybody else. And if you burn all your energy for somebody else, where's the energy for your own body maintenance?

Not.

And it is such a pity. So that happens too much. And there's again also so much research done about that.

Yeah, yeah, I think it's so key that we no longer stay ignorant. We start to really take care of ourselves and be aware, and there's no— the reward is death, early death, if you constantly just give, give, give and you don't take care of yourself. So I really want to encourage people today to start taking care of yourself, start making the right decisions, start applying some of the things that you've learned today, trying to use the 3 brains for daily life, for daily decision-making. Everything that you're doing, make sure you're asking which brain is talking right now? Which one should I be applying? Who am I talking to? How can I connect more? All of that stuff. And know which brain works for what situation. And don't just use one, your dominant one, for every single thing, because again, there's only pain and sadness or death or sickness at the end of that journey. So finally, finally, Chris, I know, you know, as always, there's always people who are like, I don't think this is for me. Oh, you know, hypnotherapy, maybe he wants to put me— whatever it is, whatever. But they know that their lives are not moving forward. They want some significant change in their life. What is one little, little, very, very small step that you can leave with us today for people to start making some changes towards having a better life?

Actually, what you really said, I really start asking what you said, which brain is talking when I make a decision? Because I always say to people, and everybody can relate to that, that you're hungry, it's late in the evening, you're hungry. You go to the kitchen, you open your fridge, and see say a healthy salad, and see some yummy cheesecake, chocolate, leftover pasta, whatever. On that moment, your three brains are communicating with you. Your head says, "Go for the healthy salad, Johan. You know it's much better for you." And your tummy says, "Yeah, now do you see the cheesecake, the chocolate, the wine, the leftover whatever you like, rice, pizza, and go for that." Now, on that moment, just take one second, which brain is talking? And whatever you choose, it is okay. But become aware of what's happening because the moment you start training listening to your internal voices, your decision-making becomes better. And that's rather easy. I don't say right away, go for the salad and do that. No, first start listening to your own decisions.

Hmm.

And the moment you start listening, what will happen? The moment you start listening to it, the voice becomes louder. So in 1 day, 2 days, 3 days, 4 weeks, you come over here, hey, actually I can, I can much more attuned with myself. And at that moment, your decisions will become, say, more 3 brains aligned. Because also now, according to neuroscience, what fires together wires together. Yeah, but we train to become stronger. So the moment you start listening to your internal voices or your internal brains, whatever you like to call them, they become louder and stronger. So then at one moment, you know, to the kitchen, you say, you already walk to the fridge, you said, I know I'll have to discuss something, salad and the cheesecake. Okay, before I open the fridge, where should I go for? And whatever you then at that moment choose, you do much more aligned. And that's okay. Once cheesecake will not kill you. Oh no, absolutely not. Always cheesecake. Okay, we can discuss that one. So, but then at least you have the 3 things there. So just start listening which brain is talking.

Thank you.

And just like a muscle, we can train all of them. Like, I love to swim, as you heard, I did water polo. So When I learned to swim, just like everybody, I just had a 9-month, say, injury of my shoulder. So I started to re-swim again. Just before I had my injury of my shoulder, I did 3 times 3.5K a week. So the first time I went to the water 2 weeks ago, I swam 500 meters.

Hmm.

And like my head was saying, oh, that is really not a lot. My self-esteem, my gut said, oh, Chris, you're really getting old. And my heart just said, you know, Christy, the wise thing, you listen to your own body and I will support you to get better. So now, 2 weeks later, I swim a kilometer. Of course, your muscles start training back again. And I know it will take some time before I'm back on 3 times 3.5K, but you'll get there because you can train your muscles again. And your brains are exactly the same.

Hmm.

Nobody starts with running a marathon. Everybody starts by Running till the end of the, of the street.

Or walking.

Sorry, sorry, John, or walking.

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much, Chris. Wow, so much wisdom, so much knowledge. And I really hope that my listeners have found this very valuable. I know that I have. So as you go forward with your life today, please ask the question before you make a decision, which brain is talking, which brain am I listening to, and start getting in tune with that internal voice, the internal brain, so that you can make better decisions and have a better life. Because that's the goal. We all want to have a better life, and you can have a better life. Thank you so much, Chris, for being here with us today.

Thank you so much for inviting me, having this amazing talk, and your energy, Joanne. It's so inspiring.

Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you so much. Well, thank you once again to all my listeners for listening to Arise Conversations with Joan. I will see you same time next week. Have a great week.