In this YouTube video, host Christoffel Sneijders introduces a BBC research clip on hypnosis and then conducts an interview with psychologist Irving Kirsch, a leading researcher on trance and suggestion. Kirsch discusses the long‑standing debate over whether hypnosis involves a distinct trance state or is merely heightened suggestibility, noting that most highly suggestible people respond to suggestions both inside and outside hypnosis. He describes an experiment with a highly suggestible participant, Pelham, who was asked to add color to a black‑and‑white image first under hypnosis and later while fully awake. Pelham reported similar vivid color perception in both conditions. Functional MRI scans showed that during hypnosis the visual cortex area associated with color perception was activated, whereas during suggestion alone this area was not, suggesting a difference between imagined and perceptual experiences. Kirsch expresses surprise at the neural discrepancy despite similar subjective reports and notes the need for larger sample sizes. Sneijders concludes that hypnosis creates a relaxed, trusting state that, when combined with therapeutic interventions, can produce rapid changes in behaviors such as smoking, weight, anxiety, and depression. He promises future videos on practical hypnotherapy techniques.
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Hey, good to see you again. Nice that you're back on this video, and today we're going to talk about the amazing quality of hypnosis, or to say better, hypnotherapy. What I did, I included another clip from the BBC in here where they do a little research how hypnosis works really in our brain. And what you will see there is that when we do hypnosis or hypnotherapy or when people are in hypnosis, they perceive things the same as they are in real life. And why is it so important? I will discuss that after the video, so have a look at it.
I've come to Italy to meet a psychologist who has a thorough knowledge of the experiments looking into trance and suggestion. He's been working in a lab in Modena. From your perspective, how much do you think is kind of a component of suggestion, and how much is, is it necessary to be in that trance?
Well, that's one of the exciting things. That's been a big debate, an exciting area over the last 50 years. And here's what we seem to know about it. Most of the people that can respond to suggestion in hypnosis use They usually report that they can respond to it also outside of hypnosis. And this has been the dilemma. What is the role of hypnosis? Is there a hypnotic state at all? Maybe there isn't.
Irving's experience has led him to doubt that trance plays a significant role. But he does believe there's a small proportion of people who are highly responsive to suggestion. What's been your experience of people who are highly suggestible?
They're not gullible. They are intelligent. This is a person with a talent. It's a talent to change their experience, and sometimes to change their experience in very profound ways.
It was a seductive idea. I asked Irving what it might be like to be one of those highly suggestible people.
You can hear the people talking in the background there. Maybe you don't want to hear them talking.
No, I don't. We can get rid of them.
Block them off. Just block them off. If you have that capacity, you can do that. How do you feel about the temperature? Is it warm, cold?
It's getting quite warm now.
You could feel cooler.
We could have a breeze.
You could have a breeze if you like. We could decide, for example, that this building in front of us is actually a modern building. You can have it look like that. We could change the color of it. Could we have the Guggenheim? Sure, we could have the Guggenheim. Anything you like. We could change the color of it. We could make it a gray building. We could make it—
Irving has been working with some of these suggestible people as part of an experiment. Just about to get to meet one of these highly suggestible people and get to see what's happening in his brain, which is kind of amazing. His name was Pelham.
I'm going to ask you to do this twice. First time, I'll ask you to do it in hypnosis. Okay? All set?
Yeah.
Good. Let's begin then.
To demonstrate the theory that people can respond to suggestion alone, without the trance, First, Irving hypnotized Pelham and then suggested to him that he could add color to a black and white picture.
Okay, open your eyes now. Look at the screen. Just see it as it is in shades of gray, but please don't try adding color to it until I ask you to do so. Now begin adding color to the pattern. Add color to it until you see it in full color, as if you were looking at At a fully colored pattern, and let me know when you've succeeded in doing that by raising the index finger of your right hand. Good. How much color do you see now from 0, being no color at all, to 100%, which would mean full color?
85.
85%. Good. I'm going to bring you out of hypnosis now. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Open your eyes. 0. Okay, good. Feeling wide awake now?
Yes.
Normal wide awake state?
It's normal again, yes.
Good.
Then, once Palom was completely alert with no hypnosis, Irving suggested to Palom that he could do the same thing again.
Look at the pattern, see it as it actually is in shades of gray. Don't add color to it. Until I ask you to do so. Now begin adding color to it. Add color to it so that you actually see it in full color, and let me know when you've succeeded in doing that by lifting the index finger of your right hand. Good. How much color do you see in the picture now?
70.
70%. Okay. Great, thanks.
It seemed bizarre. So were the colors quite bright?
Yeah, most of it was sort of as colored as I could get it. That one was a light yellow and that one's sort of pink.
And does it surprise you?
The first time it did, definitely, because it was quite easy as well. So something I expected to sort of struggle with, it's forced to happen, but it was just sometimes I actually have to hold myself off and wait to be told to do it, otherwise it'll start happening anyway.
In and out of hypnosis, Pelham said he saw a lot of color in a black and white picture. This is consistent with the idea that trance is pretty much irrelevant and you can achieve almost the same results without it. Quite a lot of activity going on, not only in the back of the brain. Irving then wants to see what was happening in the brains of Pelham and those like him, comparing them under hypnosis and then without it. Now, when did you get these results?
I saw them yesterday morning, and I'm still excited about them. They're not what I expected. Parts of them are, parts of them are absolutely not, and I'm as happy about the parts that I'm not— I was not expecting as I am about the parts that I was expecting. that I was expecting.
It's often the case in science.
Yeah. Okay, show me. Okay.
First, Irving took me through what someone's brain looks like when they're being shown an image in color for real. An area called the visual cortex lights up. Okay, so this is no suggestion, no hypnosis. This is just the way the brain looks when it's seeing color. That's exactly right. Great, got it.
That's exactly right. Okay, here is a composite image of the brains of people who are adding color Under hypnosis. And what you'll see is that there's this area that's lit up. This is area of increased activation.
Within the same area that we saw before?
That's right.
That is involved in seeing color?
In seeing color, yes.
Okay, so this person isn't seeing any color whatsoever.
No.
But the area involved—
Experientially, they're not being shown any color, but the area involved in perceiving color It's lit up.
So, under hypnosis, part of the visual cortex involved in perceiving colour is active. This suggests that Pallon was somehow really seeing colour. Then we looked at the brain responding to suggestion alone.
Now, here is a composite picture of the brain of the 6 people when they were not hypnotised. They're asked to add colour, they're not hypnotised.
There's no colour area.
There's no colour area being lit up. There's some other things being lit up, but not in the parts of the brain that actually respond to seeing colour.
This did surprise Irving. What was going on in the brain under hypnosis appeared to be different from suggestion alone.
Since what they say is so similar under both conditions, I expected to be very— what's happening in their brain to be very similar as well. Maybe a little less under— without hypnosis than with hypnosis, but not the degree of difference that we're getting. That to me is a surprise, a large surprise.
But they reported seeing color almost the same as when they were hypnotized.
Right. Isn't that exciting?
That's amazing. And what's going on up here? Why is all the other stuff being—
Well, that's a good question. One of the possibilities, one of the things that that's consistent with, is that here they might be imagining color as opposed to actually seeing it.
They're really thinking.
They're really thinking.
Having to remember, imagine.
That's exactly right. That's what's being suggested. Now, we've only run 6 subjects. We've got to run maybe another 18 subjects, something like that, in order to really be able to say this conclusively. But already what you're looking at, they're meaningful results.
Irving still needs to do more tests, but if the results are repeated, it would suggest that although you can achieve almost the same experience using suggestion alone, trance He is doing something.
And what it also means, when you just watch the video, that when we're in hypnosis, we are really perceiving it in our brain as it is true. It's not an imagination, we're not thinking about it, it is just perceived in our brain like it is true. That when people are in a beautiful relaxed state of hypnosis and they trust the therapist or the coach who's working with them, they can allow themselves also to make changes. And that's where hypnotherapy steps in. Hypnosis per se is nothing, it's a beautiful relaxed state. But when you're in that beautiful relaxed state and you do the right therapy, then you can make amazing changes for people. So you can make people stop smoking in one session, You can make them have a healthy lifestyle instead of being overweight or having those kind of things. You can change depressions rather easily. You can help them out in anxieties because somewhere in their brain, when you just think about anxieties, you can make it less anxious where they're anxious about, if you know how to do it, of course. And in later videos, we'll dive into that and how to do that. But now it was more about the real truth why hypnosis and so hypnotherapy is such an amazing tool for rapid change and development for clients we work with. Have a beautiful day, have a beautiful evening, or whatever you're doing. See you next time. Ciao!
