How To Align Your Head, Heart, And Gut For Success And Happiness ! 3 Brains Intelligence

Hello everyone, this is another conversation, Freedom to Feel, and my guest today is Christoffel Sneijders. Not sure if I got his last name correctly, but here we go. Christoffel is an executive coach, personal coach as well, and therapy services provider, visiting professor at IE Business School in Madrid, author and speaker. So he's also the author of 2 books. Um, I mentioned he's an author, but 2 books. The First one was titled How Men and Women Fit: Finally Understand Your Partner with the 3 Brains Theory. And then the latest one, Relationships: Which Brain Is Talking? The Ultimate Guide to Happy, Healthy, and Successful Relationships. I mean, there's so many interesting topics that the 3 brain, the existence of them, uh, 3 brains, which I didn't know in, in this way. I always thought about the heart and brain connection, but I didn't think about the gut. So we'll be talking about that. But I guess before all this, I want to mention that the full bio will be at the end of this video. So for now, Christoffel, in your own words, who are you?

Who are— who I am? Yeah, who I am. That's always a good question. Who are you? And then most people in the Western world, why do they start sharing their job and what they do?

Yes.

And I would say I'm a passionate person who likes to make this world a little bit of a better place, has a huge passion for people, and also has a huge passion that actually to create almost happiness, health, success. And from that, my passion is actually my drive to learn about it. That's why I'm an executive coach and psychotherapist, clinical hypnotherapist, assisting professor, and all the other kinds of things I have on my list what I once studied. Because all those little chunks help me to understand us better and you better. From, okay, what is actually now stopping us from achieving what we all desire? Health, happiness, success. It sounds almost so easy, and it is. And if you just open every newspaper or something else, it's somewhere a struggle.

That's so true. How did you come to this? What inspired you to do what you do today?

Um, I would say that there— it's sometimes hard to pinpoint your, uh, your thing. And Jung always said most of the psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists are wounded healers.

Yes.

And I could— so, so I could say, hey, I've got— I have been bullied at, at secondary school, so maybe that created something like, hey, how can I create a better place? But even before that, I know for my mom, she always said You can even not kill a fly, Christopher. Now, of course, you don't like flies, so you hit them, but you will never torture them or something else. You will— you have a huge profound for happiness and those kind of things. You don't like to see people fight or those kind of things. You like to be a peacemaker. So that's already something like you could almost say an, an, a mission why I'm on this earth, right?

Yeah.

But to make it really huge, and, and luckily I got the gift or the talent to work on it. And so that's really— I'm grateful for. And so it's different things. And in all my work, I always saw, when I started studying, those are my first work, that a lot of people work for the money, but you see so much unhappiness. There's so much push. You have to achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve. And just sitting down and talking to somebody in my first role, when I was, say, leading a little team of 5 people, they always said to me, Chris, you're the first person who just sits down with us and doesn't ask right away, what did you sell?

Hmm.

It was like, hey, how are you doing? What's happening with you? And from there somewhere it evolved. And for me, I thought, that's, that's normal, isn't it? But it's not. And, but the, the beauty of the pity is that people started to perform better when you had also a human connection. And it made me always wonder, if I can do it and it's not so difficult, why don't I see it more? And that became then really my passion for what is actually stopping us from doing so. Because I got a burnout, uh, I got, I got almost depression when I had a divorce when I immigrated to Australia. And I thought, hey, it happens to me, that means I'm still missing something. I still don't know what kind of links are more. So my personal life is also what is around me Keeps me busy. Yeah, come on. I walk— I live in Madrid and I walk in the morning with my dog.

Yeah.

And, and then I see people say, uh, living on the street, and I know it happens and we see it on televisions, but still it always, it always gives me at least one second of why. I live in Europe. Of course, some people maybe choose for it, but those are really a few. That's not That's maybe 1 or 5%. The other 95% not. So, so what is happening here? What is happening in them? And what is happening in us that we cannot make it happen? Now, a huge story why it drives me.

Yeah, that's wonderful though. That's, um, one of reflection. We talked earlier about the Buddha, right? How he became curious about all these things. Why, right? Asking questions, deep questions. Uh, how do you define happiness these days?

Christoffel? If you think about the Dalai Lama wrote a book about it, that the difference between happiness and joy, and the short-term pleasure and long-term pleasure. If I would connect it right away with my 3 brains, let's make it easier. So joy is, say, a short moment of happiness, and it's mostly a gut brain thing. I just had a beautiful dinner, I had a glass of wine, I gave a beautiful girl a kiss, my girlfriend. Sure, real happiness is more— if you then go to Viktor Frankl, that from Man's Meaning, he says, hey, when you really found meaning in your life and you find somewhere, say, uh, something you can contribute that's bigger than yourself, or go for love. And that's actually in the heart-brain connections. If you ask me, joy is gut-brain pleasure? Heart-brain pleasure is actually happiness, the contentment. Because if you are with some— with people you are around, or if you're, I say, or with things you love, then it doesn't matter how much money you have or how many beautiful cars you have. That's how in my— it's, it's more a heart-brain connection part. Yeah.

And, um, since we already, um, Tap into the subject. Gut-brain-heart connection. Talk to me about, um, the characteristics. Um, what are they like? I know in your book you have that. So I'd love for you to explain a little bit more what they are.

That is, say, one step, and I will do it easy because not everybody knows it. And it's like, yes, gut-brain-heart-brain. What did Chris drink today? Now, nothing. Yes. But in my whole quest to find out what's happening, I came aware of a book, The Second Brain, from Michael Gershon. He's a neurobiologist and spent— now he's now in his 80s— he spent his whole life in researching actually the enteric part of us, everything underneath the diaphragm. And he wrote 30 years ago the book The Second Brain, where he describes the gut, say everything underneath your diaphragm, has 500 million brain cells and this buildup like we have it here. And in that research coming, so if that's true, wow! And it has memory and can make decisions. It right away explains in my therapy work why people have issues with weight loss and all those kind of things. So, and then I came aware in the same research period about HeartMath, this company who researched everything about the heart, and they led me actually to Dr. Andrea Moore, who now also wrote a research document in the same time as my Michael Gershwin 30 years ago about the second— he called it the little brain on the heart. And I thought, it also has a memory. What is researched so many times when people have a heart transplant, almost everybody who has a heart transplant has a change of behavior, thoughts, memories, likes, and dislikes. And it can only happen if something is transplanted with the heart, memories and all those kinds of things. So when I had that insight, hey, scientifically it's proven we have a brain in the gut that can think and can act and make decisions. We have the same in our heart. It has a memory. It can decide. And we have one in between our ears. So then it makes sense it happens. And I also did somatic training for trauma work with Peter Levine. And he writes in a book about research of Ivan Jankovic, who already wrote in the '40s about we all originate from the gut. And the heart and the head are actually built on later to manage this complex thing we are as human beings. And when I connected all those dots, I thought, oh, that makes actually simple sense. And I have to say, the first time I came aware of it, something like 7 years ago now, I thought maybe I'm a fraud because it cannot happen that I now imagine this. Well, those books are already more than 30 years old. Somebody else also must have seen this.

That's true.

Now, one year later, I came aware there was a book written actually by Grant Saluku Multiple brains. He pitifully died just when I launched my book, so I could never speak to him. Ah, so there are two people actually who researched it and made it: Grant Luca and me. That's okay. So at least there's and some other people talk about if you go to genealogy and other kind of things you hear about it, but not so in depth. Okay. So it's true now. So that's where it came. So that that's where it comes from. So why why it is true scientifically? What do they do? And then let's make it extremely simple that everybody understands it. Where do you feel fear? In your gut.

Yes, that's right.

That's your gut. Where it— forever. Where's your Qi point? Where's your energy point, Valerie? Also there. And so your gut originated 500 million years ago, is the place That keeps us alive and likes us to survive. That's where the energy is coming from, and it has only one objective, actually, to keep us alive. And from keeping us alive, it means I have to eat, I have to reproduce, and I have sometimes have to fight and flight away to keep myself alive for predators, or if I like to eat something. 3 basic functions. And every animal, a living creature in the world, has this because every living creature has actually a digestive system. There is none, no living creature in this world without a digestive system. But every sponge or, uh, um, or that kind of animals can live without a heart or a head. If you think about the sea cucumber It doesn't have a heart, it doesn't have a head, but it can survive. A worm, what you can find in the soil, the same. And so we can. Now, the heart came in when we became social animals, because when we were born, a zebra can walk within half an hour and can run away from a tiger. Valerie, how much minutes did it take you to run away from, say, your nasty neighbor boyfriend? We are totally helpless when we are born. Gabor Maté writes the same. Gabor Maté says also the most important thing for us as human beings is bonding. Without bonding, we don't live. And that's the heart brain comes in. The heart brain is also the only part besides amygdala that can release oxytocin, the love hormone. The gut does not have love hormone. The gut doesn't have oxytocin. The heart and the head has it. The gut has cortisol to put action in there. That's why we have a heart. So the heart is all about bonding and caring. Where do you feel rejection? Where do you feel a broken heart? Yeah, right.

The name says it.

Yeah, that's the reason of the heart. So it's all about bonding. Now, why do we have this beautiful thing on top of our throat? Actually, to think about tomorrow and to think about yesterday. The only difference this one has with this one, you would say, with your head, with your heart and gut, is this one can think about time. It knows tomorrow, it knows yesterday. And why do we have a big brain? Why does it take 20% of our energy? Why do we have so many memories? What's the use of a memory? To predict the future better. That's why we have the big brain. It helps us also to survive. So this one has actually one objective, and we spoke about it before when I said a little bit perfectionism. Your head wants to give the perfect answer because in a good prediction for the future, you have more success. So our head sometimes brings us to perfectionism. To the sleepless nights, van wat should I wear tomorrow? What should I say tomorrow to my boss? What should I put in my presentation? And that one keeps you awake because it wants to give the perfect answer. So those are the three things it has to make the extreme simplicity a bit more. But this is the simple one: logic, bonding, survival. And if you now think why we have issues in your life, and I just keep on talking to you, say what Chris? Because all three of them, if you hear now, like to do the best for us with logic, with bonding, or with survival means fight and flight. Those three are not the same. So now just imagine, Valerie, yeah, one of your friends asks, uh, I've got a new boyfriend, what should I do? And you just say, just follow your heart, and actually say to your girlfriend, just follow your heart bonding. Don't take care of yourself, what your gut brain does. Don't think about logic. If you would say to your girlfriend, what does your gut say? And she says, I don't know, it doesn't feel good. Then they give totally different thing because then actually she thinks about what is in it for me, how safe is it for me, what is my benefit of the relationship. If you ask, is it logical? And said, no, yeah, actually I'm living in the States, he's He is living in Australia. He already has two divorces, three kids. Is jobless? No, it doesn't make sense. Then the head brain steps in. So even if we say those things, what what does your logic say? What does your heart say? What does your gut say? You get totally different answers. And what do we do as humans? Me the first, I would say right away. Most of us follow one brain in our life, maybe two. That's the whole story, Valerie.

Wow. I have lots of questions. Yeah, of course I have. I had an idea already because I've read your materials. The question that comes to mind, I guess, is what is beyond all that? When I listen to you explaining the different kinds of brains, I think about survival. In all of them, they have this component quality of survival somehow as a separate self, as a separate entity, uh, from life itself. It's almost like a finger trying to survive, uh, make it, um, to be healthy without the rest of the body. It's just not possible. So that's what it feels to me. But that's because I come from a spiritual understanding that there's just one reality and one body, and we are everything else. All, all that we see and experience it's part of that body, of that system. So everything is connected. Um, so I was very interested in the last part of your book. Of course, that at the end of the book you have a chapter that talks about other methods of communication, light and energy. That caught my attention immediately because we're into spirituality.

Yes, makes sense.

So talk to me for a moment about that. Have you actually— I know it's outside of your main work, but have Do you have conversations about that too? What are other kinds of realities besides the, the brain, the heart, and the gut? Are there—

There is, again, as I told you before, I'm also right— I'm also a Reiki master.

Ah, yeah.

So in my book, I make it say physical, down to earth. Why is that? Because that's what most people accept. As at the moment I talk about spirituality, I talk about energy systems and how we're connected, and people say Oh wow, this is probably one of those, um, floating guys with his purple shirt. We just wait for his— with his chain of little shells around his neck. Because before you know it, you get somewhere in the little corner of not serious anymore. But there are 2 ways to think. I know based on my experiences that we all are connected by the universal, universal energy. Uh, it, it It's very easy also if people have like, how do you move, Chris? They're totally scientifically captured. I say, okay, just put your hand 5 centimeters from my hand. What do you feel? And based on a Reiki master, they will say, yeah, I feel warmth, but I feel also something else. It's almost like I feel energy. I say, what? You feel energy? Yes. And the moment they say this, like, oh, oh, oh, oh, what did I say now?

Yeah.

Because we can feel energy. Sometimes do an exercise, say, with the really I'm not believers executives. And that's not because they don't want to believe, but in their whole world it's about profit, loss, success, achieving. They followed their MBA, they followed Harvard, MIT, whatever. And there's no spirituality in that. There's no spirituality in a profit and loss account. So you can see, hey, you can see those executives all around the 50s and they're all somewhere like, okay, well, We've done it. And I say, okay, um, I say, just now imagine, stand next to each other and stand on the left side of the person. And now walk behind him or her to the other side and stand to the right side of him or her. What side do you prefer? 95%, uh, 95% will have a preference, right? And I say, where's the preference based on? And all of them said, I don't know, it just feels better. And I say, it feels better. Where's that logical part of you now? And they feel safe, they feel safer, more connected, more open, and more willing to share. And that's energy. If you know, it's all about energy systems in constellations, what they also followed. It has, it has a reasoning actually behind it. And we, we are all there. So why I put it only in the end of a book in the research, right? Because for you and for me, and I will say this, the nerdy of science love to see that In my, uh, say, in my advanced training and other things, I always talk about that because it is true. When you talk about mirror neurons, we talk about rapport and NLP, it's all about the non-tangible things about how it's there. And I always ask people, did it ever happen to you— a closed question, negative— is it that you entered a room, say, and where a party was going on, or a team building, or a meeting was going on, you stepped in the room and thought Hey, something happened here. They had a discussion or a fight or something like you. You felt the atmosphere, and everybody says yes, I had that sometimes. I said, how did you notice that? Did did somebody stand up and said, oh, we just had a fight by the way, Peter. So that's what so you know it. I said no no no. I said I just feel it like you sense it. Where do you sense that with? Where's your sensory system then? Because we have six. Sensory systems say yes, smell, taste, hearing, sight. It's none of those. And then it's all about energy and about the spiritual world, how it is. And in that moment, there's like, yeah, the spiritual world is maybe a little bit too much, Chris, but I can imagine there's maybe a little bit more. So we all know it and we all experience it. But just because, as I said, the head brain likes to predict, likes to know, likes to know. Now these are all things we actually don't know. Even if Lynne McTaggart wrote the book The Intention Experiment and The Bond and The Power of 8, and it's all researched that it happens, but nobody had a scientifically experienced explanation why it happens. So this one doesn't have an answer. So what, what does this one do if there is no answer? It just pushes it away from, okay, I don't believe it, I just delete it because I don't have an answer, it just makes me uncertain. So it's a whole natural process of all humans to put it somewhere aside because it helps your survival mechanisms.

True.

So a long answer again, uh, but to put the surroundings there. Why I'm— to your things, yes, I'm a believer, of course.

And yes, right. And it's not really a belief system, right, Christoffel? When we think about it, it's just like you said, it's a feeling. We know we are not really making those choices. We don't know how we are making these choices we make, but they are being made anyway. So it's, um, it's really a matter of observation. It's an experience. It's like we're able to actually see everything happening, but it's not really There's not a fixed me here doing these things. So, but you're right, um, for some reason we have become very, um, let's say scientific-based, uh, in our living with technology and everything else. So it's really not— I think it's becoming better, uh, we are moving more towards spirituality somehow in understanding, viewing life from that perspective.

Mm-hmm.

But it's still I think it's that we are taking baby steps, aren't we?

Yeah, but the funny part is what I like, that people know that if you have your phone and you put your phone next to your bed, it will affect you, this energy. And then if we talk about energy, spiritual world, they'll say, oh no, no, that doesn't happen. I think, okay, so your phone can influence you just sleeping next to it, but But about everything else, yeah. Yeah. And then after, yeah, Chris, but I don't know how it works. Most people don't know the Earth, and for people who love music, probably it has an— the Earth as a total has a vibration of 7.83 hertz or 5.3. I always mess it up as dyslexic. I put the numbers sometimes wrong. We humans have the same, and that's why we love, say, the brainwave music. We all are in an— and when people are actually not feeling good, and you would do an energy scan on them, say music-wise, what is their hertz, you will come over here, they're actually out of tune.

Ah.

So energy-wise, they're out of tune. And when you talk about chakras, it means your chakras are not aligned. And it means actually you send out different energy. So you're not in that 7.83, 5.38, or whatever kind of hertz system anymore. You're playing Out of tune. The moment you can change your tone of voice, and again, body-wise, spiritual-wise, you feel better. It is scientifically proven. It's not me saying that. It's scientifically proven and tested on people, just like you can play the music. So it is. Why don't talk about it? Because you right away are put in a system from In a separate book. And most businesses will not start believing you anymore. This is a little bit too crazy. This is too strange. I'm going to, I'm going to, to help my leadership team talking about energy systems, Chris? Uh, no, we just found some, we just found somebody else.

Yes.

But, but having said that, if people come to me as a therapist or a coach, they love it because they find extremely quick solutions.

Right, right. Because you are in touch with all these aspects, right? The relative reality, the absolute reality, spirituality. and science. And that's really where I think we are heading to, um, hopefully soon, like this bringing together science and spirituality, not, not a separate, um, separate things, but all the science of spirituality. I imagine, you know, that they can come together. You said something in your bio says Christoffel's ultimate aim is to contribute to creating a more heart-brain-based society. So how do you envision that? What would that look like?

Um, if I would make it, say, a binary 0-1 comparison, now we live in a massive gut-brain society still, huh? It's me, myself, and I. We win or lose. And now a lot of leaders or dictators, even if they're democratically chosen, talk about winning and losing. Me first, you last. MBAs still, schools still say, are you not summa cum laude? Okay, they are not good enough. So it's still a winning or losing society. That's a gut-brain society. That's extremely primitive. When we just discussed, it's the basic primitive system. It's almost like we become, say, sea cucumbers again. We have the same habits as the sea cucumber, to make this really hard-brain society. Is where we as mankind survive as a society, all of us. And we can still have leaders and followers because even zebras have leaders, but it is less in the hierarchy way. It's not that people have $200 billion as one person and the other person has $1 a day. It becomes a little bit less in that part because you don't get happy with €200 billion. You have massive amount of guards around you, you never sleep by yourself, but it's somewhere there. So a heart-brain society is actually where we all succeed, all achieve, all have happiness, all have health, all have— and it can happen. We have enough resources on this Earth to create that.

Yes.

And we still can all then— we can all watch still then the television, all that kind of stuff. So, and in companies, it means that we go from the short term to the long term. If you make it again scientifically business-wide proven profit and loss, what business is like, the book From Good to Great from the Gallup organization, almost 20 years old now, writes about servant leadership and that servant leadership outperforms on the stock exchange on profit and loss every other company. So long term, they win. Only when you have quarterly results like in the States, yeah, that's not appreciated. You have to win every, every 3 months. And every 3 months winning inhibits a gut brain society. If you didn't perform, Valerie, you're out. Instead of saying, Valerie, you know, you're just new in the job, you know, we're going to help you that next year and the next 10 years actually you're totally happy here and you succeed and contribute. And we all survive and we all have a good time. That's a totally different scope. That's a hybrid society. So it's not soft or mellow, or that we all, or that we all are making senses and sitting around the campfire singing. It means actually that we all care for ourselves, for ourselves and for the others.

Yeah, uh, a billion yes to that. Yeah, to that vision. Yes, um, it's one that it has always naturally made sense to me. I was inclined to do things that was good for me and good for others. But of course, it's my next question to you, the next topic which caught my attention in your book Relationships: Which Brain Is Talking?

Yeah.

Very interesting insights into trauma. So talk to me about what happens when the When we are dealing with a traumatized gut brain, traumatized heart brain, and traumatized head brain.

Okay, yeah. Okay, trauma is a beautiful word, and if you now look in American society, almost everybody's traumatized. Oh, my Porsche I ordered is not yellow but a little bit orange. I'm traumatized. What? You ordered the ordered the Porsche into the wrong color. You're traumatized now to make a joke. No. So when people have highly impactful events, emotional or physical, only 15% gets the post-traumatic stress syndrome. 70% goes on with their life. 15% also have a post-traumatic growth. They become better humans of it. So trauma by itself is actually 1 out of 7 of people who have a really highly impactful or emotional experience. And then we talk about war, sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, and all this kind of horrible crap. Now, what I mean is, when you're traumatized, it happens in many things. If your parents are drug addicts, and even though they have the best intentions, based on the fact that they're drug addicts, they cannot take care of you, or your Born, say, not like me in the Netherlands, but somewhere in a third world country, then you they have totally different experience. So what does what does a traumatized gut brain means? It means somewhere you learned the hard way that the world is not safe, that you cannot trust what's happening around you. So it creates a trust in someone. Okay, this will this will create say less survival means. Heart brain trauma is actually more relationship trauma, and it can be a loss of a loved one, and it can be from a divorce to death to whatever kind of horrible things. And the loved one is not only your partner; it can be your kids, your parents, your nephew, your your neighbor, where you really have a huge heart connection with. And what is then traumatizing about it? That you cannot, cannot deal, say, with the loss based on how it happened, based that you miss them too much, based that there's maybe codependency, or really, say, almost when we talked about spiritual love, the karmic relationship that is somewhere cut down. Um, head-brain trauma is, is more a logical trauma, and the head-brain doesn't have many traumas, only it relives the trauma and makes stories about it.

Yeah.

So the head brain is actually always in connection with the heart and the gut when we talk about trauma. Why it is so beautiful and not so beautiful trauma, as I said, 1 out of 7 gets traumatized from an event. 1 out of 7 gets better person out of it. And 7 out of 10 has something like, you know, life goes on as it goes on. So there is, there is a chance to change that. But also when we are in relationships, and we are always in relationships, if that is your partner, with your family, or with your colleagues, there's all different kind of relationship here. Relationships when people are say traumatized, it means their operandus mundi is coming from one brain. When the gut brain is traumatized, it means it's always alert because it doesn't trust anymore. It is something like walking in a war zone.

Yeah.

So that means that in every connection, he or she will be more in a fighting or running away state. So it's hard to have a relationship with that. If the heart brain is, say, traumatized, it means most times it's closed off. So they, they don't connect with you anymore. They don't open up. They don't really connect. They don't really give themselves anymore because before you know it, you get hurt again. And it happens when, hey, when you have, say, uh, you had 2 relationships, twice your partner, uh, you found twice your partner with somebody else in bed. You have something like, you know, I don't trust, in my case, females anymore, in your case, male anymore.

Yeah.

So the next person you see, even though you think this is the person of my life, I'm not going to open, I give my heart away, I give my heart away again. Before you know, he or she steps again in it. That's that trauma. Now, the beauty is we can heal it. The pity is, if people have it, it means they walk on one brain. So all the decisions are almost like a post-traumatic stress syndrome. And although post-traumatic stress syndrome is a psychological term based in theism about war traumas, many people walk with an almost tiny post-traumatic stress syndrome in the fact that they walk on one brain or live from one brain. And so that's a different kind of definition.

Right.

And it is because in the relationships we have, especially with the close ones around us, it can be extremely detrimental. What happens when I write in my book, most gut-brain dominant persons are just like, say, the, the, the, the, the sea cucumbers, think about themselves. So if I think about myself, then my partner is the best if she thinks about me. Because that makes them to think about me. That's it, that's perfect. So a lot of gut-brained people love heart-brained people because they have somebody who also takes care about, about them. But for the heart-brained person, they get— they love to take care, they love to bond. And a heart-brain dominant person sometimes likes to help people even if it's against their own detriment. How many women don't go for the bad boy? And at the end, they get burned, domestic violence or even worse, because they cannot out of— they cannot escape anymore. And so it is an extremely toxic dance to have. That's why I wrote the book already about the personal life sphere. Be aware what's happening with you, what's happening with the other, and how can you connect it. And that's why I say that I think the little centers, if you find a really gut-brain dominant person And there's only one advice I can give you: run, run, Forrest, run. Like in the movie from Forrest Gump.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because at the end, otherwise, you as a sweet person gets burned. So, so that's the, that's the whole story in different kind of context, what happens.

Yes, uh, that caught my attention. And because I love this, um, let's say this other connection between healing and spirituality, or healing and these a broad view, big picture of life.

Yes.

And I guess, Christoffel, um, when we come to see that we have healed enough from those traumas in those different kinds of, of aspects in our being, then it's— it feels to me like the, the first thing to do is to try to help others in a, in a bigger way. So what you're doing, what I'm doing, so many people that I talk about So that's what it comes, um, like, how can I help? That's to me, it was just passing on these messages. How can I help people heal, to find resources on how to heal?

Remember, that's when I started my story. Most of us, uh, like Jung said, are wounded healers. We have a big heart, so we like to help others. There's a moment we feel ourselves better. We know what kind of pain we've been through. So we're like, like to help others. And that's a heart brain thing. That is healthy, not healthy. I always say the healthiest part is, and you talk about spirituality, if all the chakras are aligned, or mindverse, all your 3 brains are aligned, because then your energy can flow. You can say, hey, I'm going to help the other, still take care of myself, and do it in a way that actually is logical. Now, if that happens, nobody gets burned. I see so many— I still remember I went for the first psychology conference. There were 100 psychologists sitting, and I'm sitting there, and you can see me, I'm a happy guy. Yes. And I'm sitting there, and I think I see all those psychologists sitting like this with their face like— and I'm looking around to think, what's happening here? And on one moment, and in front of is a really a high-speed professor coming over, came over from the States, and he's a psychologist, hypnotherapist, psychotherapist, and said Dear X, I said, I have a question. I said, it's not about the course. I said, but in general, I said, I see all around here we're helpers. But if I look around, I see almost sitting with a face like they're traumatized. I don't see any smile. I don't see happiness. I see sadness, depression around me. What's happening here?

Yes. Yeah, true.

And he looks at me, he said, Chris, somewhere you're immune for that.

Partly, partly. Yeah.

Oh, you see through me. He says, he says, this happens when we don't take care of ourselves enough. Most of us are helpers, and we forget that if we help somebody else, the first thing we have to help is ourselves. What you see around here are amazing, beautiful people who forgot just one thing: enough is enough. And that's some of that balance that, that you, me, and have to be aware of. And sometimes if you go back to karma, when the body says no, if we don't say no, our body will say no, our spirit will say no and say, you know, if you don't learn in this life, then maybe I take your life away. So then in your next life and in your afterlife, you can learn the lessons you have to learn. And when you come back, maybe you implement them.

Maybe, yes. Doesn't seem so too hopeful. Wow.

I said I'm an optimist.

Yeah, right, right. That's better. Yeah, I like that way better. Although I have to think about it in every way. Wow, that is so, so true. That's why I have a video actually on my website about self-love. That was the first step for me. like to get out of that, I mean, of my traumatized. I don't know if it was the heart or the gut, but it was the heart, probably, I would say. And then living out of that realm was self-love. Like, how can I embrace myself? This. And it's still not an easy one. It's an interesting dance because then you're always trying to find that win-win situation within everything, in my own personal relationships, my family and everybody else. And the— this war between Ukraine and Russia, like, how do, how do we think win-win, you know, um, with the heart when it comes to that? It's a fascinating dance, really, isn't it, Christoffel? Um, this life.

It is life. And, uh, I would say it's— I don't say it's easier because we just discussed earlier, like, okay, hey, wow, now we understand, it's easy. No, it's not easy. If it was easy, I would not have had the burnout and all those kind of other things. So I'm the first one to say from it's not, it's not easy, but it doesn't mean we have to stop it. Buddha said 3 years in his place where he was sitting before he found enlightenment. Eckhart Tolle was 3 years sitting on the bench before he found his, his peace. We are in a society where if your WhatsApp response is longer, you have to wait on your WhatsApp response longer than 5 seconds, it was like What the hell is happening? If your computer doesn't start up in 10 seconds, you get annoyed. We live in a society where quick fixes, no patience, rapidness is there.

Yeah.

So why should we learn everything when we are 20? When we believe in a spiritual world, we have eternity. And so, and all the spiritual leaders say, yeah, we're on a journey. And it is being on the journey and learning instead of, okay, I have to, I have to get the objective. Because we are so focused on the objective that we forget the path. And as long as you're on the journey, Valeria and Christoffel and everybody else, we are doing good.

Yeah, yeah, focus on the journey, what is here present, right?

Yeah, and in that part, if you make one step Celebrate the step you made. Don't say, oh yeah, but I'm still not there. Because then it's so motivational also for yourself, as Stephen. Hey, I did that step. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. I love that. You see, we need to be kind of work more on that. Yeah. The recognition that we are all actually doing the best we can. I have heard that before, beautifully said by somebody that I interviewed. We are doing the best we can with what we have. And that's true. And when I think about traumas and all that too, um, I don't think we are responsible for the collective trauma and ancestral trauma, you know, the societal traumas that we go through. So we are not individually, uh, responsible for them, but we can do something about it. And that's why I love healers. I love therapists like you. You know, they call change agents. They're just incredibly inspiring. So thank you for being one of them as well in this reality.

But you're right, and what you said is extremely important, Valerie, and I hope that everybody gets it in their system. It's not your fault. If you ever saw the movie, uh, Good Will Hunting—

Yeah.

It's, it's a beautiful scene where he gets embraced, um, and the therapist says 4 times in his ear, it's not your fault, it's not your fault, it's not your fault. At the moment He releases that, the whole trauma almost falls off his shoulders. We're not responsible for this. Yeah, of course I'm responsible for picking up my phone, I know that, but I'm not responsible that I got traumatized because with my coping mechanisms, this was the best choice I can make. Because every— you said it so beautifully in the beginning— every cell in our body likes to live.

Yes.

Every cell in our body makes the best decision with the resources it has. That doesn't mean the outcome is always perfect.

Right.

But you only know that when you made that step. So it's so easy to judge with the knowledge of the future, the past, but in the current moment, we always make the best decision we can.

So in that part, it's very freeing, isn't it? I titled this platform The Freedom to Feel for a reason. There's the freedom to just be, to just kind of happen and unfold and kind of be— celebrate that. It's a celebration, isn't it? The unfolding of how we choose to be in this moment. There's something else that caught my attention. That is the 3 brains Preference assessment. You have, um, this is mentioned in your book, and you do have the link on your website with the 3brainsacademy.com/3brainspreferencetest. I'll have that link on the podcast profile too. So I love that assessment test. I did it. I usually don't, for some reason, I don't take too many quizzes because I don't seem to fit anywhere a lot of times. And, and But I do some— yours, for some reason, I, I was inspired to take it. And then I see that the head brain dominance preference is 43, uh, the results that you gave me. Yeah. And then the heart brain dominance is 49, and then the gut brain dominance was 13.

Yeah. I, I saw, I saw your score, Valeria, and I had a big smile.

You did?

Yes. Because I see, and I had a big smile. Yeah. And based on your story you shared, makes sense. Yeah. Your heart brain, as you said, you like to help. That's a heart brain question. Your head brain thinks about all the things. Hence, when we spoke about a little bit about perfectionism, your gut brain is about your self-care.

Yes, that makes sense. Heart brain self-care.

Yeah. So it does not mean always say, okay, it's a statistical thing. So 49% means 49 of Of the case you choose this, it means it's the most strongest dominator. It's the loudest voice. They have a lesser loud voice. You have almost a silent voice.

Yeah.

So all the voices are there. Only one is really in the background, in the corner of your house. So if you really like to listen to your gut brain, you have to go to that corner. As long as as long as you sit here, you hear your heart brain talking. And if you go there and you feel your head brain talking, but because it's still somewhere really close to each other, but really to listen to your gut, you have to go somewhere else. So it could even happen with this score— I don't say it will happen— that you almost never listen to the small voice because it takes so much time. You're already there. Because if you have a big heart brain score, most decisions are also taken quick.

Yes.

The head brain likes to think it over. So if you make a decision quick, it's too late for the gut brain to step in. And also the other way around. If people have a high heart brain— head brain scores as first dominance, then say heart brain, they have more chance to listen to all 3 of them. Doesn't mean they act on it, because head brain people think it through. They are not spontaneous. If you ask a dominance in head brain, hey, should we go out now? They say, now?

Oh yeah.

Now, why, why, where, how? All kinds of logical questions about how it works. A heart preparation says, so, so we go out now for a drink? Oh yes, let's go out for a drink. And the gut preparation says, no, no, I'm still, I'm still making my proposal. You go, I will find you later. Or says, yes, but I choose the place. So it is how loud is the voice in there. And there is, as probably you had the response based on your score, is you have a beautiful score.

Yeah.

It is a beautiful score, and you don't have to change the score. Now you know it, you just think, okay, there is a soft voice somewhere in the corner, and I have to put effort in it to start listening to it. And the moment you start listening to it, and I say, I talk about 3 brains, actually can also say there are 3 wisdom centers. And would it be wise to listen to 3 wisdom centers we have or only to one? Right.

Ah, interesting. Yes, the more wisdom the better, actually. I love the idea of wisdom.

Yeah, they're actually called brains physically, but there are wisdom centers.

Yeah.

And if you have 3 wisdom centers, I think everybody could agree with me. Okay. It's wiser to listen to all 3 of them than just follow one blindly.

Yeah. It makes a lot of sense to me. So, but the brain dominance is a bit, it's almost close to the heart-brain dominance, 43, 49, right? It's pretty close.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's close. I will say it's never, it is a short test that gives them preference. Yeah, it's not— this is who you are, right? And you made it on one day, maybe on a Monday morning where you just had 4 hours of sleep, uh, your coffee machine was broken, you didn't have your green tea, and think, I'm going to fill it out.

Yeah.

It could be totally different question after you just had a beautiful massage, a beautiful silent session in meditation, and a beautiful green tea with a little bit of honey in it. Then you could have even have a different kind of scoring. Not that your gut brain would right away be 49, That could change a little bit.

Right.

So it has somewhere a flow. So that's why I don't give a percentage. That's why I don't make it say more scientifically, okay, this is the percentage of— no, this is your preference. This is a preference. This is the loudest voice preference.

Yeah.

Yeah. And probably if you're in an other role, you could be more head-brained. And if you're in a good way, if you're with your family, maybe you're more heart-brained. The moment you're in your work, you may be more, you're more head brain. And maybe when you do your Tai Chi lessons, you're more gut brain.

Hmm. Yes. I love that. You see, that makes a lot of sense to me. It's kind of, um, uh, adjusting, adapting to different situations with the energies and whatever the information that we are in contact with. That makes a lot of sense. Um, interesting. I'll do, I will have that link here on the podcast profile.

It's so nice. It's so beautiful to see you. Okay, now I understand it. Oh, wow.

Yeah, right. Because I didn't— I had no idea about these things. That's another thing about— that's beautiful about this experience, human experience, learning, isn't it? Being open and curious about, about everything, never really thinking that we know, especially the mind. I know everything. There's no such a thing here. There's always this curiosity about, uh, how the mind works. And although I do know the nature of the mind, of trying, wanting to know everything, but there's something about, uh, knowing how it, it navigates this reality, you know, how the units— body, mind— how they interact. It's— I mean, this is entertainment for a lifetime, isn't it?

It is. In my scores, heart brain, gut brain, that they can be a little bit more protective or judgmental. Gut brain likes to be more protective, less open for learning because new things could be vulnerable. So I come here sometimes and I think, and I really come away with them. Okay, now you're critical on something, Chris. Why are you critical? Because it's not true and you know it's for effect is not true, or you see it more as an other kind of opinion based on your opinion based because it's an opposite opinion, you like to disconnect it. And the moment I think about it, I come aware, okay, sometimes it's because it's opposite opinion that I like to disregard it. And that moment, think, ah, this is a trigger that I have to learn because my gut brain feels not pleasant because I think, oh, unknown territories. And the only way to learn is to step into your unknown territories. Yeah. So I come aware the moment I disregard something, I have some like Is it a fact or is it me? Now, if it's a fact, it's okay. Yeah. Red lights, a red light stays a red light. But if it's me, I think, okay, aha, you find your own block again, Chris. Your own safety is now, is pulling you back from learning. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

Go there.

That, that's, that sounds to me like very much that work of self-awareness, right? Just to be very, uh, in, in that space of awareness. So what I was trying to find, I guess, was the truth in the sense of what holds this relative reality together. You know, what is life? What is to be? What is existence really? Those big questions I always had. And then now it's— what really has in a way established itself is that seeing this from a perspective of perfection already. already, uh, being what it— complete, whole. There's nothing missing. Now to play with what is missing, to what is broken and unhealed.

It is interesting. I have the same kind of questions, and I like to give them an answer scientifically or just spiritually. And I say, say we're all energy. And what I know from my old stuff, because I was a commercial engineer, Energy likes to find balance, positive and negative to, to face each other out, black matter, black matter, uh, white matter. So if we're all energy, what we like to create when we talk about enlightenment is actually to create a balance in our energy system. So for me, our quest on life is actually to find, say, that enlightenment, that balance, to create actually almost all our chakras are totally aligned And beautifully that we can harmonize with the energy around us.

Ah, yeah, right.

And, and so we are human beings, but we are still energy connections that do their best to find their balance somewhere in, in, in a human form. And for me, that sounds like, okay, so that gives me also meaning what I do, what I do, because I know if I do say Let's call it negative or hate. It creates actually negative energy. So I become farther away from, say, stabilizing the energy with the environment. So it helps you actually, okay, it's better to do, say, let's call it to do good, because it helps you to harmonize the energy for myself and for the future. So that's for me, it's not the meaning of life as Viktor Frankl says, because then it becomes more But it gives me something like in a more spiritual case. So as an energy system, we like to find, say, balance in our way. So what you said, how can I help you? How can we balance out? Is somewhere then the way to go.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I, I tried to, I kind of use the word harmony these days more than balance for some reason. It kind of changed, but it's the same thing.

It's the same thing. It is. Say, I'm not native English, so sometimes I use a word. It's maybe just 5, 5% less than what I mean. But, but, but harmony sounds also really beautiful. Harmony is actually definitely plays together. I think maybe that's even, I think that's even, I think that's, now you said it, I think, oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much. That's, that's, that's a more beautiful word because if you are harmonized, it all plays together and it's better than balanced out.

Yes.

Yeah. May I adopt, may I adopt harmony, Valerie, from you?

Yes. There's something about that word. And To me, the meaning is really not really coming into harmony, but recognizing that we are already in harmony with that which is here, which is absolute reality, whatever the foundation of this, of whatever this is. So it sounds very abstract a lot of times, but to me it feels very experiential, very real. So we're almost at the end, Christoffel, from this beautiful conversation.

Yes.

And I want to mention something else that I found in your book. Yeah, there was the 7 essential steps to really connect with the other person. I love that part in your book. So you have all these steps there. And interestingly enough, the first step is to get aligned within yourself. So that harmony again coming, right?

Yeah.

That caught my attention too. So talk to me for a moment about that before we say goodbye for today. I do have more questions for you.

7 steps, maybe it's a magical number, 7. That was not the objective. I was just wording it and it became 7. But it makes so much sense. We receive the— actually, when you talk about energy, the reaction is minus reaction in physics. So the moment I'm harmonized, I'm open for what's happening towards me, and I can sense what's really happening there. I allow my neural mirror neurons, my sensory systems of my heart, my gut, to actually really receive what's happening there. And from there, I can make a better response. Having said, it's the hardest thing to do if somebody says, hey, I don't like you, and then say, okay, let's first go to state.

Yes.

Yeah. So But doing your best to be that more during the day, you can talk mindfulness helps to be there. It can be by breathing or walking, but it's the most essential step to do there. Yes, in the Chen Chao, so know yourself. But this right here is the hardest step because if something comes out of the out of left field comes out of the blue, you don't have time to really jupe yourself. Dat is praktisch. Maar je ziet in de andere steps ook van oké, en if if that's happening, daar wil ik komen waar het is happening. Repeat back to yourself what the person said or what the person did. Live it by yourself actually in a way. Step in his or her shoes to come aware what could be his or her intention actually. Instead of judging it, start to actually maybe talk about learning. Start learning, hè? Step in his or her shoes. Nonviolent Communication, Marshall Rosenberg, what I once followed, always said the same. The moment somebody who did something extremely horrible steps in the shoes of the person where he did it to and really lives life through the eyes and feelings of that person, falls everywhere and, and only asks for forgiveness. Because in that moment, they live what's happening. And that's also an extremely important step for yourself to come over here. What's really the intention of the therapist? Because coming back there, and I love this from Marshall Rosenberg, who once said there are only 2 things that people say: help me and thank you. Only in our communication way we abbreviated that in, hey, you big F, what the hell are you doing?

Yes.

That is actually a help you question, only verbalized in a totally different way. So, but the moment you step in somebody's shoes, become aware, that is that. Because the gut brain wants to feel safe, so help me. The heart brain likes to have connection, so thank you, let's, let's be together. Those 2 brains, that's, that's their biggest intention. I'd like to feel safe. I like to feel connected. Only in our communication styles we all have as beautiful human beings with all this knowledge It is so hard sometimes to decipher that. So in those 7 steps, it's also step into the other person's shoes and come aware, hey, it's actually his heart or gut brain talking. And then life becomes much easier, much easier.

Wow. That, um, yeah, that makes so much sense. I love that. I never heard about that way before. Um, yeah. Help me and thank you. Uh, that really, you just stopped me here with that.

Oh, wow. Yes, I stopped. I stopped faltering. Yeah, you did.

I'm like, what do I— there's nothing. That's it. Yeah, that makes so much sense. What else can the brain do? Nothing. Just kind of become silent, right?

Yes.

So at the end of our conversation, I want to ask you, um, the question about freedom, the open question about freedom. And then I'll ask you— actually, I have, um, 2 questions and then the ending technical question. So how do you define freedom these days? What is to be free? What gives you that sense of freedom?

Um, I said my— I'm first going to say my dad always reminded me of the song of Janis Joplin, Freedom is an other word for nothing left to lose.

Yeah.

And I, I learned that almost my whole youth, that somewhere that right away is the first thing that pops up. But if you think about the sentence, freedom is actually that you feel safe, whatever safe means, and you feel connected. Yeah, because if you nothing have left to lose, actually you feel safe because you don't care anymore. The only thing is this, now, but Janis Joplin was not the most happiest woman in the world, hence she also died when she was 27.

Yeah.

But the heart-brain connection was there. So freedom is, you know, I feel safe, I can do my things, whatever that is. I feel connected, and that's for me freedom.

Wow.

Yeah, because the moment is there. Nelson Mandela said it, the only thing they cannot take away is your own mind and your own things. And Viktor Frankl also said the same. Freedom is in yourself. And if you ever read the book, maybe probably you did, from Viktor Frankl, he always said Yeah, he said in the prison camps, you saw actually the good and the bad side of people, but you saw that the only thing they could not take away was actually yourself.

Yeah, yeah. Your perception of that, the meaning we can make out of experience, for sure. Yeah. Wow. Beautifully said. I love that safety and connection. And then, of course, making meaning out of those. And another Question, the last question is what 3 experiences you wish everyone to have before they die, before they lose the body?

Uh, okay, it, it sounds momentary. Real love. Really feel real love. Really feel appreciated and connected. And in that way, when they breathe away, that they know also they touched somebody else or multiple hearts of other people. So they gave that part a meaning to their life.

Yeah.

That they really feel, okay, I, I meant something for else. Because then you can— my granddad always said it, he said, you know, if I close my eyes, if now I go to bed or I go now my last time, I know I did the best I could at least for there. And that's— and I always thought when he died when I was 18, I thought, okay, okay, granddad, that's nice, boy, you're 18, really? I was a little bit in that part on that moment.

Yeah.

But the more I thought about it, it's so true, I think, because in that moment, because he touched me, otherwise I wouldn't have talked about him here now. And based that he touched me, actually, he could leave this world also in a much better way because, you know, He meant something to more people in this world in a positive way. Yes. And then we talked about the energy and about enlightenment. So his energy was also more at ease. Maybe you know it, people sometimes die in total at-easiness, and some people die a little bit more crampy. And if you die totally at peace in that part, there's someone that you did something, you can feel peace with that. So I, I, that's what I wish for everybody, that they can just say, okay, it's there.

Yeah. Wow. What's not to love about that? I usually use that phrase, um, because yeah, it brings everything together in the sense of, um, universal wisdom, personal wisdom, and so many different kinds of intelligence we have access to. We could If we are open to and curious about these things. Thank you so much, Christoffel, for being you, for doing what you do. Thank you.

Thank you for— thank you so much for being on this, uh, on your beautiful show and having this beautiful conversation with you. And for you and for everybody else, I wish that you keep on doing your amazing work, because based on what you do, you inspire so many people. And for everybody who listened, um, please Help us all to make this world a better place. Yes, as they say in happiness, positive emotion, engagement, relationships, meaning in life, and engagement. PERMA, that's what, uh, what they say about, if you like, the flourishing life. Yes, it doesn't talk about money, doesn't talk about a beautiful car, but because that of course is nice to have, bring it to each other.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. You always see, go back to love again, unconditional love, love, this feeling like safety. I mean, everything is just— that's exactly what we are here to experience in order to enjoy the, the human experience as a whole, right?

Yeah.

So thank you. And before we say goodbye for today, uh, where's the best place to find more information about you? I know I have the website. Is there any other Places to find you?

No, no, no. I would say the website is the easiest. Of course, you can type in Christoffel Sneijders if you can pronounce it correctly.

Yeah.

And then you find my, you find my Facebook or LinkedIn or my— I will have soon enough, I will have also my personal website, Christoffel Sneijders. That makes life easier. 3 Brains Intelligence. It is rebranded from Academy to Intelligence because actually we talk about 3 brains intelligence. There you find everything. And always say, if people like to know more, the cheapest option for only 3 coffees, at least in, in the Netherlands, you can buy this book and you read so much about it. And if you cannot afford 3 coffees to make your own life better, then wow, you really have to see a therapist.

Another option. There's always an option.

Yeah, yeah, that's a joke. But it sort of is the whole reason for, for us in the Western world. Yeah, not, not to make your own life better.

Yes, beautiful message. Yes, I'll have the website, um, link, and I also have the book link, of course, on this podcast note. Thank you so much. Thank you so much again. Thank you.