Relationships? Which Brain is Talking? The Ultimate Guide to Happy, Healthy & Successful Relations..

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, 'cause you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster With your brain. Now here's your host, Chris Voss.

Hi folks, it's Voss here from thechrissvossshow.com. Ladies and gentlemen, it seems that that makes it official. Welcome to the show. We certainly appreciate having you guys as always for over 16 years and 2,200 episodes. We've been bringing the Chris Voss Show and we've been bringing you the smartest people, the brightest minds, the people who share their journeys, their cathartic moments, how they got through them. And they're here to help you get through whatever you might be going through as well. Although if you're stupid, I don't think we can fix that. You know, stupid is stupid. stupidness forever. But we can make you a little bit smarter, uh, just by listening to the show. Go to goodreads.com, 4chan, Chris Voss. They're like, who's gonna fix Chris? He's pretty dumb. Uh, chrisvossshow.com, and you know, all the good stuff. Anyway, we have a fine young man we're going to be talking to today.

Excuse me.

Christoffel Sneijders is joining us on the show. With us today, we'll be talking about some of his insights and how you can improve the quality of your life some of his technologies and things that he utilizes. He is a renowned expert in human behavior and transformative change. He's got a rich background in psychotherapy, clinical hypnotherapy, somatic therapy, energy therapy, coaching, and NLP. He empowers clients worldwide to overcome challenges such as leadership issues, burnout, PTSD, anxiety, trauma, and addictions. As the founder of International Three Brains Intelligent Coaching, and Leadership Academy, an executive coach with, uh, and visiting professor at IE Business School in Madrid, and author of the bestseller Relationships: Which Brain Is Talking? He's impacted over 13,000 people globally in 30 years, inspiring profound professional and personal growth. Welcome to the show. How are you?

Wow, thank you so much for this introduction, Chris. Yes. Good to meet you this morning. And it is a pleasure to be in your show because I know your show is one of the best out there and I listen to it.

So now, do we want to lead off with your book, Relationships Which Brain Is Talking?

Of course. I follow your lead.

Okay.

Yeah.

So you've got a book on Amazon, came out February 28th, 2023, uh, Relationships Which Brain Is Talking: The Ultimate Guide to Happy Healthy and successful relationships. Give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside that book?

What's inside it? Now, maybe you know. Let's go back when we were young, Chris. The book Men Are from Mars, Venus Females Are from Venus was popular. So it actually described men and females are different. Actually, my book almost really says the opposite and say we're all the same. Because we have 3 brains, a brain in your head, brain in your heart, a brain in your gut. And the only difference actually is how we use them and how we're educated and socialized. And why is that so important? Because everybody has a relationship mostly with a partner or with your kids or with your other family members, brothers, sisters, parents, but also in the workplace.

Yeah.

Sorry, go ahead.

What makes it different? If you know that we have 3 brains, they have different kind of responsibilities in life, they become aware. If you have communication with somebody or you like to connect with somebody, you have to work with somebody, you know which of their brains is more dominant in their life, you can connect with them much better. And it doesn't matter if they're from China, from the Netherlands, from the US, female or male, because we all have 3 brains. So you don't have to look anymore from the outside, actually disconnecting from the inside. And it makes a massive difference actually how every relationship can be successful.

Uh, and so there's 3 brains that you talk about. This is kind of a, the cornerstone of your, um, coaching and what you talk about with people and stuff. So you have the brain brain, the heart brain, and the gut brain. A lot of people we've had on the show have talked about how the gut is kind of your second brain there, where, uh, You know, what you put into the gut determines, you know, it can affect like brain swelling and everything else.

So, so true. And there's, there's a little difference in that part, although they're connected. So what we put in is, say, also say the microbes and the bacteria you have here in your gut system, your intestines. When I talk about the brain, it's actually in your whole viscera. So underneath your diaphragm, it has 500 million brain cells. One, of course, for your digestive system and keep you alive. But secondly, actually to keep you alive and make decisions that are good for you. And yes, they are influenced by what we eat and what we don't eat, because those affect the bacteria in your gut. But besides that part, they can make independent decisions already. So it's actually, it is, they're both connected, but they're slightly different.

So yeah, um, and, uh, so you help people identify these. Is eating right then basically part of the gut part of that brain? Eating healthy foods?

Absolutely. If you talk about, let's say, healthy decisions in general, healthy food helps because everything you eat will be, say, digested by the bacteria in your intestine system. And the more healthy bacteria you have in your gut system, then the more healthy also your decisions are. And what you said earlier, if you eat too much sugars, too much fat, it creates a different kind of set. And actually what your gut bacteria can do, they can connect through the wall of the gut to actually the nerve systems, the 500 million brains in your gut. Create a nerve connection that all and your gut brain, the 500 million brain cells communicate actually upstairs to your head brain. So your gut bacteria can actually influence what you think and how you think and what you like and what you don't like. So in there, in that part, what you eat is extremely important.

Yeah, it definitely makes a difference what you eat. You know, I gave up drinking years ago. I eat healthy foods. I eat live foods. I go to the local farm and buy, uh, healthy lettuce and different things like that. Um, it, it really makes a difference in how you feel, your energy level, and, uh, you know, your gut's happy. You're not sitting there with what I call rock gut where you're just like, oh God, what was that Taco Bell that I ate? Why did I do that to myself?

You know? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And, and that's what you, by the way, say, your digestive system is taking so much energy and it needs the right bacteria to digest it, that will start sending information to that. And what you say is also true. Our 3 brains take up to 40% of our daily energy by all the things they do. So the moment you put, say, something not the right— and I'll say food— in yourself, it needs a lot of energy actually to get rid of it again or to transform it. Hence you feel tired, you don't feel healthy, you don't feel energized because the energy is actually sucked out of the other parts of your body.

Yeah, yeah. And it just, it just really helps. I mean, when you're young and everything works right, you know, you don't have to usually— I mean, you should worry about what you're eating, actually. It affects your metabolism, your body, and everything else. Um, you talk about how your head serves as your strategic partner, offering logical reasoning and analysis to deliver the best strategy or predictive outcomes possible. Um, now does that serve the same for both men and women? Because I know women are emotionally based, so their emotions are their—

Yeah, I like to, uh, right away correct that women are not per se more emotionally based. In my book, there's also research done by 2 tribes. They're genetically almost the same. In one tribe, say, the females are seen as secondhand, and the other tribe, the females are seen as number one, and the men are secondhand. And actually, when you see when they're older, they behave just like they were educated. And the men are more emotional, the females are less emotional. In the other tribe, the females are more emotional, the men are more rational.

Yeah.

It's actually, when you talk about 3 brains, yes, we have a genetic preference. Females are more caring in the part because they also can get pregnant and they deliver babies. And we only help them to produce them, but that's only the sexual part. It is how you train your heart brain. Just imagine how females are educated in general when they're young, and you go and you see a little baby in a stroller, and it has a say a blue shirt like I'm wearing. Is the boy or girl? Everybody says boy. If it's pink, it's a girl. From the day we are in this world. We're actually put, say, labeled to act in a different way. If a boy comes home with a bruised knee because he was playing soccer, we say, oh wow, that's tough of you, good job. When a girl comes home with a bruised knee because she was playing soccer, we say, oh no, girls should not play soccer, why don't you play with your dolls? And so we create actually to make them more caring. When you go to the head brain, your head is always logical. It's how much are you trained to use them. And the funny part is the moment, say, you train a lot the heart or the gut, the head brain becomes start, say, advising or the heart or the gut brain.

Mm-hmm.

Of course, the head brain is actually a great advisor to do the best things you like to do. And if you are educated and socialized to be caring and be soft and social and all those kind of stuff, yes, your head brain will support that. Your gut brain will not do that. Say, go to the LGBTQI fix things. I make a joke because always mess up somewhere at letter 5. You will see that, say, in that communities, the gender does not relate really to how much emotional or not emotional they are because they actually allowed or allow themselves To release much more, say, emotions or be a little bit more tough.

Hmm. So with the— what was the other thing that you had? You had the head, you've got the gut and the heart and your heart being guided by empathy and connection prioritizes the impacts our decision. How do we get better at being empathy empathetic and and achieving connection?

Great question. If you say the top of the head is the logical advisor, it's the only part, by the way, in our whole body that knows tomorrow and yesterday. It's the only part that can do cause and effect analysis. That's one. The gut brain, as we started off with, is actually our survival. Our immune system is located in our gut. That makes sense because 500 million years ago, it was a separate entity. Everything in this world came to this world as a digestive system. Every single cell gets nutrition in, gets waste material out. So that's a gut. It's all about survival. Me, myself, and I. And it makes sense because if you'd like to be a Formula 1 champion, you need to be number one. If you'd like to be the CEO, you have to be number one. So it supports us to be number one.

Oh, 3, 3.

So, so, and then we come back to your heart, to your question.

Okay.

The heart is all about connection. When we were born, Chris, how independent were we? A giraffe can walk in half an hour and can run out a lion. Now we humans, before we can run out a predator, takes at least 10 years. So we are, we are born and raised actually To bond, to bond with their caregivers, with their parents, otherwise they will never survive. Put a baby outside when it's born, put it outside, it dies within a day. Yeah, because it cannot take care of himself. So the most important thing for us humans, and actually for mammals, is bonding. And there where the heart brain comes in, the heart brain is all about connection. I got a broken heart, my heart says yes to the person. Olivia Newton-John was singing it already. My heart says yes, my head says no. When she was singing about John Travolta in Greece.

Yeah.

So, and there's one thing about some of these things, okay, that sounds great, Chris. Is there science behind it? Um, the bonding neurotransmitter is oxytocin. Oxytocin is not produced by the gut. The gut cannot produce oxytocin. The heart can actually synthesize oxytocin. Just like the amygdala can synthesize oxytocin. So the heart is actually capable of releasing oxytocin that keeps us— that is the bonding hormone and the liking hormone. So neuroscience actually proves the 3 qualities of the 3 brains. So that makes it even more beautiful.

Wow. So let's talk, how did you get into this business? How did you get into coaching? How long you been doing it? What were some of your Influences you were raised in, in the journey you went on to get here?

To be honest, I started as a commercial engineer, studying that because I'm rather logical-oriented. Started in software design, but actually came aware while making software that I was always talking and connecting with people. And so I almost wanted to duct tape my— duct tape me so I could just program instead of talk. So, and I came aware actually I really like people. Went into sales, and when I was 30 I had the opportunity to join the best company in Europe in leadership and sales training, and also being coached. Bless you, Chris.

Excuse me.

And I came aware, I really knew that that's my real passion, to help people. Even from a young age, I was, was more the helper. Why would you— bless you again. And now that's almost 30 years ago. And I realized like, this is my passion. I love to help people because if you make people better people, they'll influence people to make better people. And at the end, companies are better. The world is better.

Yeah.

And today, and that's also my vision behind it. My life purpose. Let's make this world a better place if possible.

Hmm. That's definitely important.

Yeah. So the last 30 years I've been doing that. And as you said from the beginning, I studied many, many, many disciplines. That was one reason. But what does people really, what makes people tick? What makes people change? Because there is billions and billions are spent yearly on coaching, on training, on development. And at least 70% is just wasted, the money, because people don't change. And I always became aware, why don't, why, why, Why don't people change? If you know that there's something healthier or good, when we spoke about food, why don't people do it?

Hmm.

After all my surveys, I came aware 8 years ago, we have a heart brain, we have a gut brain. And everybody knows if you're hungry and going to the grocery store and you see, say, some yummy, uh, sugary fatty stuff and you're hungry, or you see a salad, 9 out of 10 will go to the yummy sugary fatty stuff because that's what your gut brain actually says. I want it. Or can we— hey, the gut brain and the heart brain actually are in our, you could say, our emotional instinctive brains that actually override the head. Hence, if we change those, we can really change for people their development. Then it starts happening. And I worked in Australia where I lived as a therapist, and so a lot of people had physical abuse, sexual abuse, mental abuse, and all that kind of stuff. And say, where is trauma stored? In your heart and gut mostly. We know it, what happened, but we feel it in our body. And the moment you can disconnect it in your body, then it just becomes a memory. And whatever they had is gone now. And that really sparked me better also in the journey to the 3 brains and to do what I do, because if you help Want people to get his or her life back again after being sexually, physically, emotionally abused. That's a massive win because they can have a normal life again for the rest of their life.

Oh yeah, teach a man to fish and you can feed him for a lifetime, I suppose. Is that, uh, is that the right analogy?

Yeah, absolutely. It is a beautiful analogy, Chris. So yes, I know I gave you a whole story. I thought I'll give you the whole story so at least You know, where's the, where's the A and where's the Z in the story?

Oh, wow. Um, so talk to us about some of the offerings that you have on your website. I see a lot of different offerings. Uh, how are some of the different ways, uh, you help people and what they can find on your website in, uh, courses or trainings, et cetera, et cetera, coaching?

As you said at the beginning, I help people individually and in teams. So people can sign up if they like to become a better coach. As a professional coach or as being a leader and have to coach people in my certified by International Coaching Federation, the 3-Brain Coach certification training. So people learn actually how to coach people knowing that we have 3 brains and how do you make them change. And that's freaking amazing. And the other offering is always I work one-to-one with people saying coaching or therapy to make, to make that happen. That's the easy one. And when you spoke, when we started with the book relationships, which we're just talking, I will say that's the easy entry for people if they just like to have a $10 or— it depends if you're Kindle or more or on paperback— $10 or $20 entrance. Hey, what doesn't work? What am I? What is more dominant to me? And how is my partner or my colleagues? And I would say that's also my passion and I would love to say everybody listens to you buys this book, buys the book, not because they get rich from it, but for one reason: they will improve every relationship they have, and every relationship with their kids, their parents, their partner, their colleagues will become better. And in the end, you, me, and all of us will benefit from that.

Oh, so I see on the website you've got Three Brains Coaching, and so you've got a Three Brains Coach Certification, Master Coach Certification. Tell us about Break those down for us so people in the audience can understand what they are about.

So if you, if you look at the 3 Brain, um, Coach Certification, what makes it special, Chris, and what is beautiful of it, and we spoke about LP, um, um, you can become aware which brain is talking. So when you talk to somebody, you actually become aware or can become aware, are they more talking from their head brain, their heart brain, or their gut brain? And if you know that, you can come aware, hey, how should you connect with them? Or where is, say, where are they stuck to change? Because if somebody's only talking from his head, it could be the heart and the gut are not involved in the discussion. So that could mean that after discussion, the heart and gut say, now we're not part of it, but actually we don't like it, we don't change. Boom. So that's part of the immunity. Yes, that's the same. To become aware, I always say as an example, what happens in a lot of people, say you are a head-brain dominant person, if they have a more heart-brain dominant person and they communicate, and the heart-brain person likes to please the heart, the head-brain person says, you know, why don't we go out for dinner? The head brain person would say, oh wow, but I was actually doing my emails. I was still doing this. So I don't know, actually, this is rather spontaneous. The heart brain could feel, say right away, pushed away. But actually what happens, the head brain cannot be spontaneous. It likes to know the best answer. So we'll never say yes or no in the right spot. But the heart brain likes to be acknowledged. So if you don't hear a yes right away, it feels pain.

Ah.

So knowing which brain is talking helps you actually become aware how the person responds and how you should interpret that response. Because if you ask the heart brain person, hey Chris, what would you like to eat? And the heart brain person says, I don't know, what would you like to eat? No, no, I asked you first. You know, I love what you love. So you choose. No, no, no. I chose yesterday. You choose. And you get the discussion of 10 minutes because the heart brain does not like to choose. It likes to please you.

Yeah.

So, and if you see that, then say this is then personal relationships. But if you do that in business relationships, it can be the same. I never forget I was coaching somebody who's a risk manager, extremely head brain, and his boss was rather annoyed because he was never spontaneous. And I said, that makes sense. One, a risk manager is always about safety, that you don't make risks. And second, he's extremely head-brain dominant, so he likes to know to give you the best answer. Spontaneous decisions won't happen. They can only be spontaneous when you say it's a brainstorm session, because then every answer is allowed.

Oh.

So as an example, and when he knew that, every time he spoke to the guy, he said, let's brainstorm. What he actually said to the guy, be spontaneous in your answers, but he knew that it will not work. So let's brainstorm, let's just pop out ideas. Everything is good, everything is good. And the relationship improved massively, and the risk manager really could bloom to his qualities because he was not afraid anymore to give an answer. So if you know which brain is talking, it helps a lot. Now that's part of the training, and then how to coach people on it. Just imagine you had something happen, you have a limiting belief, you know, I need to eat healthy, I need to eat a lot of meat, I need to eat a lot of veggies, or, you know, I have to— we have to have the best project, we have to win. If those beliefs you have, it makes it extremely hard actually to change or look from a different perspective. And all of those beliefs I just mentioned are are actually all in the heart or in the gut. So if you know that, you can coach people. Hey, how can you change that belief system knowing that they're stored in the head or in the heart or in the gut? And then they can look in different opinions anymore. Yeah, I like to wing, but it's not important for this job. Ah, so that's actually what we do in the training to help people.

Ah, get them trained, get them coached. So what kind of clients do you usually look for? If someone's listening in the audience, how do they know if they're a good Fit for working with you?

Yeah, you hear me now saying, actually, the best fit is if people really want to change. And it sounds obvious, but what I mean is that is, you know, I'm willing to change. I don't like to have, say, some solutions I know and then say I did a course and I know it. But really, I like to make the difference. I like to change. Then you're a good person. So if you look in the business world, there's almost everyone who says, you know, I like— I have an ambition to improve myself or to improve the job I do or to— with the people I work. If that ambition is there, you're the right fit. If you like to follow the training, it's actually, you know, I don't like to be one-on-one. I like to learn the techniques and the tools and the mindset for that, and I like actually being a group. with mind-like people, managers, leaders, coaches who have that. And actually then in the training we can coach each other and actually also have the benefit.

Oh, that's good to have. Um, so people can reach out to you. What's the— as we go out, tell people what the best way to onboard with you, uh, how to reach out to you, find out if you're a fit, and check out some of your services as well.

So the easy ways to fit Chris, and we made jokes about our names. Chris is for us most easy, but your Fos is double S is already hard. My Snyder's is impossible to pronounce. So my website is Three Brains Intelligence. And if you type or Google Three Brains Intelligence, you find me, you find the website, and you can find, you can find me because there's my WhatsApp, my email, my phone number. And right away, and that is, I would say that is fun. There's a free three brains dominance test in sixteen languages. You can just ten minute test and you can come aware, hey, which of my brains is actually dominant in my decision, in my normal decision making without that I really think about it. And why is that so? So, so I would say so so good or so so much fun because most people say I'm more head or more heart or more gut oriented if you would ask them. A lot of times they could be true, but a lot of times you also see that people just misjudge it because— and God, as I said, the head is always supporting the heart of God. Sometimes people are more logically oriented, and actually they're not more logically oriented, only their heart a lot of times asks the head, give me an answer. And they think they're logical, but what the head actually does is supporting the heart, and they're totally heart-brained people. If you know that, you know actually what are my strengths, what are my general pitfalls, and in communication with other people, where should they be aware of and where should they not be aware of? And that it's a free test, no strings attached. That's a lot of, I would say also a lot of fun to do so, to come aware what's happening inside you. There you go. So free brains intelligence that makes life so much easier.

Uh, so, uh, pretty insightful. So, uh, as we go out, give people the .com one more time and We'll round out the show.

Yeah. So it is 3brainsintelligence.com and you find it.

Uh, well, thank you very much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it, man. It's been very insightful.

It was all pleasure, Chris, and I wish you a lot of luck and have great interviews because now people listen to you and they find your shows the most interesting one actually to get information from. So I hope I fulfilled your interest and your objectives for the show. Let's make people aware how they could make their life better.

Uh, so check it out, folks. Order up the book where refined books are sold as well, called Relationships: Which Brain Is Talking? The Ultimate Guide to Happy, Healthy, and Successful Relationships, uh, out February 28th, 2023. Thanks, Simonas, for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com/christoffel, linkedin.com/christoffel, christoffel1 on TikTok, and All those crazy places on the internet. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. And that should have us out. Great.