What has Elena and ex-student and HR professional to say over performance issues?

Harvesting.

All right.

Yeah, so I will cut this piece out and say, oh, we did a live session here. Don't undersell yourself.

Yeah, I think I do a lot of that. I undersell, like, myself, um, because I'm thinking that I'm not, you know, confident enough, but I am.

Okay, and can you remember where we talked last time about what we did not record about, say, Performance anxiety in men and with strong women and those kind of things.

Yeah.

And how does it relate to each other? It's almost the same.

It almost is the same because you, like, you've already told yourself that you're not good enough, or you're already telling yourself that you're not good enough. So then you do things like downplay or being really modest.

Yeah.

Or if we're talking about men, men, then we're talking like this.

We're not talking about what Salt-N-Pepa was singing 20 years ago. Let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about you and me. Let's talk about all the good things.

Hang on, when you said Salt-N-Pepa, I thought you were talking about their other song which is called Push It.

No, no, no, I thought about the song Let's Talk About Sex.

Okay. All right.

Not the other one.

Sorry, there was another one after that.

Okay. Push it, push it.

Yes. So let's talk about sex.

But that's somewhere it has the same. It's always about, almost always about anxiety. Why are we afraid? Because there's anxiety.

Yeah.

Afraid of moving places, afraid of this, not being good enough. It's always making a projection in our own heads.

Yeah.

Past experiences.

Past experiences.

I had this issue back then, um, and you know, now a year or two down the track, you're, you're being blocked from going forward with the move or going forward with the relationship. So it really is the same thing.

Yeah.

It's just on one part you're getting more of the physical symptoms of the anxiety. Which, yes, anxiety is psychological, but people forget what it can do to the body. It can literally just wreck your cells. And like that analogy you always used to tell us, if you're stressed every day and you're having panic attacks, your cells are just— they're not getting any rejuvenation. Any rejuvenation. And Exactly.

Everybody who's in stress will not perform. You have, of course, positive stress, but that's a different kind of body experience. You can enable the fight-or-flight response to get that energy there.

Yes.

Some sporters need that fight-or-flight response because in that fly or fight, they create extra energy.

Yes.

But it is not most times in performance where you really need your neocortex inside thinking as a human or in a physical act as making love or those kind of stuff.

Because too much of that fight or flight can literally burn you out. And I think a lot of obviously people approach us and say, look, I'm having panic attacks, so I've got anxiety. Does hypnotherapy help? And it's like, absolutely. And what I always like to tell people, because I from experience have had many panic attacks and I just Or, oh, you know, like they're gonna go away or whatever.

Mm-hmm.

They're psychological, but no one's telling you what they can actually do to your body.

Mm-hmm.

They can completely deplete your adrenal glands.

Mm-hmm.

So you have no energy to wake up, plus you've got the insomnia and it's just like firing, firing until you get burnt. So the quicker you see someone, The better.

That also makes sense, our previous discussion that you had panic attacks.

Yes.

So in our course we did not work a lot with each other. I think, oh, you have panic attacks. Oh, that makes sense to me why you're having quote-unquote fear going to Newcastle, or that you have the thought patterns of, I already burned, I went twice away from Perth, now I feel burnt. Because panic attacks always comes from building up past experiences and then some burst out.

Yes.

And we can call it cognitive distortions, as the CBT calls them.

Yeah.

Rather than labeling.

Yes.

It's thought patterns that just build up that we move in one road.

Yes, yeah.

If you break that pattern or create, install new kind of ways of looking at it, that sounds much more nicely, then so much more.

Yeah, definitely. Hypnosis has done absolute wonders for me because I don't get to that stage. I'll get to a stage where I feel like really nervous, but it will never escalate to what it used to be. But I dedicated and you know invested a lot of money in actually studying you know why I get them and and fixing them.

So on a scale from one to ten, I'm just curious. You know I cannot resist that. I urge myself. On a scale from one to ten, yes, I feel extremely. Extremely self-confident.

Yes.

And one, I feel now absolutely non-confident.

Yes.

Where are you somewhere in the scale?

I'm an 8.

On average?

On average. Like, right now I'm an 8. Yeah. I think back then when I did suffer from the panic attacks, I think, you know, you're down to like a 3 or a 4 because Then you start to avoid the situation.

Right.

So with the man and the sex issues, which I— me and you have been getting asked quite a lot, if you are constantly thinking, oh God, I'm dreading that, then you'll do everything to avoid it. And it's very similar to panic attacks. You know, if you have one in a certain place, you do everything To avoid that, you'll go around the long way, you know, you won't go on that bridge, you'll go around. And I think with the men, um, you know, a lot of them, if they know they've got this issue, they will start to avoid their partner, and that's when all the issues will start because they're, they're avoiding it.

Absolutely. They think they have to perform. It's the moment you think, I have Perform most times don't perform. Yeah, because you put all the energy somewhere in your fear actions there, and you bleed from all the other parts of your body. And for men, that one is extremely sensitive for emotions and feelings about security, not security.

Yes. How can hypnosis help these men?

Actually, I almost say you don't talk about sex. We talk about what is causing somewhere that. Anxiety, performance anxiety, that it does not work enough or that they have to perform or not to perform. 9 out of 10, I will not say 10 out of 10, when they really are in a committed relationship and there's love and understanding and compassion, there's no issue. The issue starts, or when they don't like their partner anymore because they have a judgment, she is not pretty enough anymore or whatever. Yes. Or just that's break of love. Yes. But otherwise, if they talk about sex, what for me is different, then it is I have to perform. I see a beautiful power woman. She's strong. She says what she wants. Touch me there. Don't touch me there. And then every man is like, oh shit! I have to perform. I have to make her happy.

Yes.

I should not let her down. Now, if you have those thoughts in your mind, I should not have let her down. Now, the moment you say I don't let her down, down is Actually, a word that you don't like to use when you like to use sex because I shouldn't let you down.

And then it's literally down.

It really lets you down. But it's amazing how many people say that in their own mind. Or oh yes, I know that this is now the third date, and officially, according to what old people say, the third date you have to have sex with your partner. But oh wow! So I have to perform now? Oh, I get sweaty hands. But we have we have to do it.

Yes.

If you have to do it, it's not fun anymore.

It's really interesting because I was thinking, like, now with online dating and all these apps, which are absolutely awesome because, hey, you can meet someone from the comfort of your living room. But what's happening now, and a lot of people say to me, it's like when you start talking to someone Everything is just like quickly, quickly, quickly. And the reason for that is because everyone knows that the other person might be talking to about 5, 6 other brilliant people. So you're sitting at home going, oh, they're probably talking to some awesome, good-looking guys.

They don't respond.

They don't respond. And then, you know, you meet them, you have a drink, and everything's rush, rush, rush. To keep their attention or to capture their attention. And from experience as well, it all just— the, the sooner it starts, the sooner it ends. It just all fizzles out. Because old school days, when you had to ring on the house phone and meet someone without an app, you would spend time getting to know them, having that connection.

That's right. And not having that fear from, okay—

And building a friendship.

Like, it's almost like the sale in Myer or whatever.

Yes. So you have to be very thorough.

We have to run, we have to run, we have to take it.

Yes, or it's gonna— or it's not gonna be there because they're talking to 5 or 6 other people. So there is all this pressure, you know, how do I get their attention, how do I make things happen quicker. And yeah, things start up and then they just fizzle out. And then, you know, the woman will say, oh well, he was terrible in the bedroom, and he would say, oh, she was absolutely crazy. And then, and then that's it, it's not working.

And then just look, we have a beautiful revelation in— we can talk about sex.

Yes.

So after the movie or the books Fifty Shades of Grey, now let's not Uprising, all the sex shops or adult shops as you call them, have different kind of toys. So we now have to increase toys, we have to use toys. You watch, you click just on internet and you see everything happening.

Yes.

And it's also not good for your self-esteem.

No.

And when you go to the most popular site, there's 300 million hits a day, 300 million hits a day.

Yes.

Pornhub.com, whatever it's called. If you look at those movies, those things, the average porn star, if you see what they do, it will not increase your self-confidence as a guy. Also not for a woman, because what they do there is almost acrobatic stunts.

Yes.

And whatever they do. So most people watch that and think, there's my sexual education.

Yes.

They feel frightened.

Yes.

Because you see positions that should be normal, you see things that should be normal, and you look at yourself and think, oh wow, I'm different. Or she's different. How does it work? Yeah, so the expectation part is also different. In the old days, and now granddad is talking almost, you didn't have that education, so you were figuring it out together. You were both nervous and it was a game of exploring.

Yeah, exploring and intimacy and everything. And now it's just like, boom, let's get together. And you know, expectations, what do they want? And Oh, am I gonna be good enough? And then it's just a big flop.

Yeah.

And then literally a big flop, and then everyone gets frustrated. The man's frustrated, the woman's frustrated.

And, um, so yeah, I mean, um, you know, it's, it's not easy, this new age, this, this new age dating era, um, but It is if you change your perspective and not making it like we should do 1, 2 steps, 3 steps, 4 steps, and 5 steps is there. It's more of, okay, let's explore the past and see dating— well, the word dating is already a strange word.

Yes.

You should date somebody so that— so what your objective is dating.

Yes.

What should be the objective actually? Finding a partner, finding love. But we call it dating sites. We actually we we use the wording dating. So it's not about finding the right partner or finding the love of your life. It's called dating.

Yes.

Now Tinder swiping left or right, whatever it means. I know what it means, but I'm not now wondering what's left or right. What is yes and what is no? Or the other way around. It's almost like meat market.

Yes.

And a lot of sites are like that. And if you actually have to explain something, as the clients tell me, they say, okay, we give a little short text and we're going to explain how we are and what we are, and we ask on mail. So the first context is checking on mail.

Yes.

And no, and almost nobody is going to write 5 pages on mail right away.

No.

So it's shorter, you don't know a lot. Yeah, but isn't it strange? You go on dating sites, so the objective is dating.

Yeah, it's like you're, you're looking at the frame but you can't see the picture of everybody. And, um, and yeah, I mean, you really do, like you said, if you've got a connection, intimacy, understanding with It will eliminate most of these problems.

The same as we spoke last time, you're seen as a strong woman, whatever the definition of strong woman is. So what it means is a woman who dares to verbalize what she wants.

Yes.

And what she doesn't want. Yes.

And the downside of that is a lot of men get intimidated by that and they just stay relatively quiet. Right away.

Because in old roles, the man was somewhere the provider of the family and was now seen as the boss. Yes. Now woman becomes equal. Yes. Wow, that's a different role. So she's equal. And now she says that she doesn't— what she likes and doesn't like. How should I deal with this?

Yes.

And then they get afraid because they think, wait, in the old days we just said go to the kitchen and make me happy. And now they say, yes, I don't mind to go to the kitchen and make you happy. By the way, you also have to make me happy. And then it's, how do I do it? Let's go on Dr. Google or Dr. Porn site. Now, what do you find there? Does that make her happy? Oh no!

Yes.

What should I do? This with her or not this? And then we get— and then it cracks somewhere.

Yes, yes. I know a lot of, uh, strong red or alpha women, as you would call it, um, and they all tell me the same thing. They say, look, you know, the guys are intimidated, um, or in the bedroom there is, um, performance issues, or, you know, nothing, uh, nothing holds. Um, and I just think, oh, it's, it's, um, you know, obviously, like, women, as women, we need to definitely be more understanding.

Yeah.

And but also, you know, not have these massive expectations, but also they're having massive expectations of what they need to do. And then it's just this ball of too much expectation.

And then going actually one step back, and now really it's almost like I'm starting to become a priest, and that's not my intention, but I'm thinking about I never forget my girlfriend says when we're on holidays with my kids, and I'm going to build up the story. Girlfriend comes along, those kind of things, and then the Spanish girlfriend asks me, are they sleeping in the same room? And those kind of things. And based on the Dutch mind, you say they sleep in the same room. The Spanish old mind would not do so. We now, most of us in this current society, think sex is normal. Sex should be done easily, fast, and whatever.

Yes.

But you can ask, that's what we spoke about also last time, are we not doing it too fast and too quickly? Are we giving away our best, most precious stuff, us, to somebody else who we actually don't know enough?

Yes.

Because I love the connection that when we breathe in and breathe out during night, we We inhale and exhale between 30,000 and 60,000 liters of oxygen, or air, not oxygen, air. So when I breathe out, you breathe in, if we would be in the same bedroom. So we're somewhere become connected. Your energy becomes my energy, the other way around.

We're totally exchanging. Yeah, and then having nothing is ever really safe sex because you are connected.

And then you become intimate with somebody if you're gonna do safe sex, not kissing, those kind of stuff. You're changing saliva, another kind of fluid. You become really one. Yes. And you have to ask yourself, do I like to give it away so easily? Do I like to be a Gucci or a BMW or an Audi or whatever kind of brand, Louis Vuitton, whatever kind of brand you like to say?

So it is about your self-value, how you value yourself and your self-love.

Because just imagine that even if you're a strong woman or a strong guy or Not whatever. Hey, you would postpone being intimate two or three dates.

Yes.

And you become really more connected with each other. Wouldn't it not become easier and put the pressure away?

Yeah.

But it is a question mark I have, because it's not an this is the solution. It's more question mark I have. Say it would not be as the client told me last time when we were talking. Sure, she was had issues with dating. And she said, really, the last date I had was really horrendous. I said, how do you mean? And she said, it was a really nice guy, I was talking to him, and somewhere he had a scheme in his head. First date coffee, second date dinner and kissing, third date is now we're going to have dessert in bed. And she said, but maybe it's because I'm from Mediterranean culture.

Yes.

Catholic background or whatever she said, but for me it's not like 1, 2, 3. Sometimes when you get to know each other, it can happen, but somewhere when you really are connected with each other. So that's why that broke up, because he didn't— he did not want to wait a month.

Yes.

Because a month was too long to wait.

Because we want everything so quickly. We want to pick up our phone, we want to order a pizza, we want results straight away. And now everyone's just applied that to dating as well.

Say you— and I make it personal, because I like to feel personal— say you would find your partner, your prince on the horse, or if you like to call it the knight, or the metrosexual who is also soft and sensitive and knows what you mean.

Yeah.

I know what you mean, you must have had a horrible day today, instead of giving a solution. Whatever kind of prince looks like. Would you like to have him in the rest of your life for 1 month, 1 year, 2 years, 10 years, or for the rest of your life?

For the rest of my life, of course.

Okay, for the rest of your life. Then why would you— why do I have sex within 3 dates? If you'd like to have the whole room for the whole life, then why would you make the judgment call if he or she is good enough within 2 weeks? How do you know in 2 weeks, 3 weeks, or 1 month that he or she is good enough? Why can't you—

Because as women, we—

Or men.

As women or men, we feel we've got this belief where we want to sort of capture them straight away. You know, everyone's like, if you want something, go after it and, you know, grasp it and make it happen. So automatically we're applying that and thinking, oh, you know, he's absolutely brilliant, this man on a horse, um, and I'm— I need to go for it. I need to go Go and grab him. But that's the worst thing that we're doing for ourselves because, you know, the quicker it starts, it just fizzles out because we're not getting enough time to actually get to know each other and to feel comfortable in each other's space.

That makes so much sense because for me, then I think right away, you know, I love storytelling. Say you go to a restaurant, you see a menu. You can do two things. Why they go for the first thing? Oh, I know this one. I know this dish. Or order it. Order from the first page, and then you order it. Okay, that's it. And you get delivered, and then you look at the other pages for the dessert. You think, oh shit! There are three order pages of mains. I would have loved that for main. But now I already had my main. Yeah. And most people go through life if I look at it. That they see the first thing, grab it, instead of reading the first whole menu.

We are moving too fast.

And that's not only— I think in most cases, and for me it would make sense, you know, the discrimination skills, designing skills, we would just say, okay, look at the whole spectrum. And if you look at the whole spectrum, I could also imagine somewhere where we talk about the performance insight becomes less.

Yes.

Because if you really know somebody and trust somebody, there's less performance anxiety. Because why is performance anxiety? Because you have the idea that the other person will judge you.

Yes, based on either past experiences, or you're judging— you're judging that person. You're saying, she's a really strong woman, um, she's really driven, she's got an awesome career, um, oh, you know, Yeah. She knows what she wants, and all of a sudden their self-confidence goes down. But yeah, like you said, if you really get to know that person, you would just be like, that's the exterior.

Yeah.

And if there's trust, I'm not really this alpha woman.

No.

If we scrape it away, if you scrape it away, you get to know the real person.

And there is always, and they call it sometimes in psychology, the second skin that we create based on our vulnerable us.

Yes.

A second skin, a skin to protect us.

Yes. And to protect all the trauma we go through and all the stuff that we go through. And yes, it does take a while to see the other layer of the person.

Yeah, and that means if that second skin is not there anymore and you show yourself and you can know you trust that person, it's less there.

Yeah, yeah. If there is, um, obviously you said if somebody, um, is having issues in the bedroom with the performance anxiety and so forth and they come to a hypnosis session, um, obviously it's best for them to come alone because, like you said, you're not really focusing on the sex problem. You're focusing on what's happening unconsciously.

Yeah.

What beliefs do they have? Um, is there other areas in their life where they have anxiety? Because it, it could just not be in the bedroom. It could be, you know, driving, fear of flying, all of that. that sort of trickles down.

Just imagine you have a fear of failure. How would it affect sex life? Fear of failure?

It would affect everything in your life.

And now imagine, so fear of failure, fear of being judged, being not acknowledged, being not good enough, has profound effects on, say, also your sex life. Because you think, I cannot fail, and I see you're a strong woman. That does not make a happy guy. Yes. Okay, I cannot fail. I should perform. And I see a strong woman who dares to say what she likes and doesn't like. Maybe I cannot fulfill her needs. Now, I almost now get sweaty for it because it builds up so much anxiety in your head.

Yes.

And then you touch her and say, oh no, not there. Oh shit, first fail. That's a fierce failure. Okay, not there. Oh, Then where? Oh no, also not there. I don't like food. Wow, it's almost built up already.

Yeah.

And it's not because it's your fault, but you just say what you like and don't like, and the person here then thinks, I'm not good enough. Oh, this is the second failure. Like, I already touched her twice, it was twice negative. The third time should be perfect, right? Where should I touch her now? Now, if you start thinking, where should I touch her now? Yeah, there's no connection anymore. Yeah.

If, um, if the— like, on a woman's part, if the woman as well takes time out, uh, to, you know, develop a relationship with the man, she's going to obviously be a little bit more sensitive, a little bit more understanding, and she would, she would want to work on it If you meet someone off Tinder and you swipe and you go into the bedroom and things don't work, chances are they're going to be out of there and not call you again. So, yes, the relationship is really important, but then also working on those underlying issues.

And even the The old guy Milton Jorgensen, in one of his books, he wrote about an example about a couple that now had somewhere romantic issues. That's 50, 60 years ago. And he gives somewhere in 50, 60 years in America, so think about the conservative ideas there, the scheme how to build up that thing. And it is about romance. It is about And when people now think about foreplay, they think, okay, I should touch her there, there, there.

Yes.

Foreplay is physical. If you go to the foreplay, foreplay is already setting the romantic mood.

Yes.

It's sending that text in the morning, you know, when you left, you looked awesome in that dress or in your white skirt.

Yes.

By the way, how you did your hair, I loved it.

You sound like you've done this a lot.

I made a study of this. I'm also a guy, so I made—

You're an expert! Wow, I've never got a dress after I've left. I've never got a text about a dress after I've left the house. That's pretty smooth.

Hey, you're talking to a guy who made all the mistakes and wanted to learn how not to make those mistakes.

Yeah, true.

I learned the hard way.

Yes, so, but you're right, as soon as you say foreplay It's, you know, we think oral sex, or we think— but foreplay, as in—

just imagine if you send those texts to him. You look awesome, cannot wait until you come home. What time are you coming home? What would you like to eat?

So you're already building that.

Should we have a little wine or champagne, or should we have whatever? So you build the whole anticipation. How do you come home? That when I text you, you looked awesome. By the way, the perfume you were having, awesome. And you Oh, it looks so awesome on your skin, how it makes you soft.

Oh boy, you're giving me all your secrets.

No, no, no, I can't much more. But how does it make you feel when you come back? Appreciated, much more anticipation. Wow, he likes me. And the moment you think he likes me, you have a totally different mindset. So then when you come home and say we have a little wine together, you're much more thinking, oh shit, we have to have a wine, he wants to have something. You know, you're really in that whole mood in the air.

Yes, you've already set the mood.

Totally set up the mood, and people forget that sometimes. You can set up that mood, those kind of things, those kind of little things. You can do it by text, you can do it by email, by a little call, and it gives a totally different sense of thing. And of course, if I text you like this, probably you will text me back.

Yes.

Thanks so much for the text, love you too, or whatever you send me back. So you're building up the anticipation Already began.

Yes.

So then when you go for the next stage or the next stage, it's much more sensitive and open, and it's not something like a forced situation.

Yeah.

And you have to enjoy it. It's not something like Mount Everest.

Yeah.

And when you climb Mount Everest, nobody goes right away for the top. They have base camps 1, 2, 3, 4.

Yes.

And we all think, okay, base camp 1 is Whatever they think about. No, it starts much, much, much sooner. Because even before Base Camp 1, you have to do 1 year of training to even get to the top.

Yes, you gotta acclimatize each step of the way.

So we forget that to get to Base Camp 1, you have to do training, exercising, whatever, whatever, get all your equipment done to get it there. And we forget that. We say, it even starts with Base Camp 1. No, it doesn't start with Base Camp 1. So it is that setting that mood and setting that expectation.

Yeah.

And most people, a lot of people forget that part.

Yeah, because we want everything now. We want things to be perfect. We want things to be perfect the first time, and we're just setting ourselves up for failure.

In Friends, the show Friends, there's one moment Joey and Rachel, they're friends and they like to do more. And Joey, hey, how you doing? He's the expert in having casual sex and having it happen. But with Rachel, that moment, it fails because it's forced. They have to do it now.

Yes.

And then she touches him, she touched him wrong, and she almost gives him a knee, or she gives him a knee, or whatever. It doesn't happen the right thing.

Yeah.

And they break the whole mood, and he's the expert, but they forget to set The mood. It has to happen. If it has to happen, most times it doesn't happen.

Yes, the more you try and fall asleep—

Yeah, it doesn't work. So the same with that. And if I have to say, well, I have to, I have to do something with this power wound, it doesn't work. The moment you think, oh, he's a strong guy and we now have to do something, you're also not setting the mood there.

Yeah, yeah. So it is about education on And women can set the mood as well.

Absolutely.

I know us alpha women, we expect that the man do a lot of the work and the romanticizing, but we can set the mood. I know you're talking about your SMSs, but I used to leave little notes in between the towels. So after I've left and he picks up the towel, it's like, I missed you. So, you know, we're capable of setting the mood.

And it makes so much sense because you see this and you think, oh, it's so nice.

Yes.

And it just makes it a little bit nicer.

And that's so much more powerful than, you know, what, like a message like that is so much more powerful than, you know, giving the right type of—

I'll never forget, once for a client, and when I talk about it, I almost start to laugh, and She and her boyfriend were just together, and they both came out of relationship. Of say now you call it cheating or whatever, but they found each other together, and it was good. And one moment it was not anymore. And she thought, "I will get him back in the mood," and sent him say rather explicit pictures of herself. Let's let's call it that way. And you can basically laugh. You know what I mean? As you made explicit pictures. for herself. And she said something like, but it doesn't work. I said, no, because if it's too explicit, it is not setting up the mood anymore. There's no expectation, no fulfilling the ideas. What is a great movie or a great book or a great story when you can put your own imagination in it?

Mmm.

Some people, and most people, find a beautiful dress or a beautiful bikini much more sexy on a girl as a picture than when it's just total nude, because there's no imagination anymore.

There's no mystery, there's no expectation.

No mystery, no expectation, no next step anymore. So I spoke with her and I said, you have to go. You right away send a picture of being on Mount Everest. Start sending pictures of Base Camp 1.

Basecamp 1.

Yeah, so, so we spoke about the boyfriend and what he would like and wouldn't like. So she started pictures of Basecamp 1, and it could be having a picture on the beach because he loved kitesurfing. So a picture on the beach where they're sitting on the beach, and then that. So she sent different kind of pictures, almost like a storytelling.

Yes.

Bang!

Bang! And when he came home after one of those days with the storytelling, they had the best night, evening night ever, because he was the whole day singing the whole story for her. Yes. And she was— and so it's so simple. Yeah, so simple.

Just start texting, you know, I love how you're so simple and, and creative, you know. If we just go back to, you know, The old-school creativity, you know, instead of the wham-bam.

And I still remember, I spoke with you last time, born and raised in Amsterdam. One of my friends was well-educated in the Red District. Of course, his dad had a cafe there, so he knew the place. But then from being living in Horika, doing— seeing all the ladies coming in there, Because after they work, they want to have a drink. Yes. So I had the opportunity as a small boy to talk with those girls in a situation where you talk with them as persons instead of being a client. Yes. And after a couple of drinks, when all the talks become more lighthearted, they most times said the first thing we have to do is get the anxiety out of the guy. Because guy comes in and he chooses us like going into the shop.

Yes.

Meat-wise, he comes in and then thinks Oh shit, now I should do something. Because we say undress, clean yourself up, and come out. So they have to come out, clean again, and they're naked and they're totally vulnerable in that part. She says 99 out of 100 men on that moment don't have a big one because they're somewhere afraid for shit. I'm totally nude, I don't have anything to hide anymore.

Yeah.

And now I have to do So the first 5 or 10 minutes we have to do is to give them confidence back a little bit.

Yes.

So to give them the confidence that whatever they do, it's all right, it's great. In hypnotherapy also, it's all right.

Yeah, I was gonna say, being a mini therapist.

Yeah, they are mini therapists, and so they have to do— if they like to do good business, they have to do it in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 minutes.

Yes.

Otherwise they don't see enough clients. So 1, 2, 3 minutes, they have to give the confidence back to good guy. So they always say, oh, you look awesome. Even if it does bother, and they say, no, I'm looking not— and they always find something that looks awesome.

Yeah.

No, I really love your softness. If they're a little bit more chubby. I love a soft guy because all those muscles is too hard and yours is just soft and it makes me feel much better. I think, oh wow, she loves my softness. She doesn't love his softness, she just says it. Oh, and I love the hairy chest, or whatever they say. They make them feel, oh yeah, they love my hairy chest or not. So they make them feel extremely comfortable, and then right away the stress walks away. And of course, they have extremely qualified skills in knowing how to do things. But the first step is building up confidence in that guy, and they're amazing, great in that part, building up confidence. If they say, wow, that's a hairy chest and a big tummy, that guy will not perform anymore. He chooses to, oh bugger. And it doesn't work anymore. So to build confidence in what most— a lot of women forget, and a lot of men forget, but is to build confidence in your partner.

Yes.

Because how many women hear—

We do forget that. We, we have an expectation that they're going to be confident and, you know, and they might have big muscles and, and all of that.

And they're just as good in this move as if you can hold up for 20 minutes and do 10 positions. and make you scream 10 times, and they also think they should do that.

Yeah.

And then you don't scream as you can.

Remembering to be kinder to each other as well, you know, is important.

Yeah. Then I talk to the guys who say, I gave her a beautiful treatment the first 10 minutes and she didn't have an orgasm, so I started to doubt if I was doing the right thing. Now, doubting if you're doing the right thing does not make you feel more confident. So I said, so I tried other moves, played differently. He said, oh, I don't like that. Yes, at that moment in my mind was, how can I escape this? Yes. Now the moment you think, how can I escape this, you don't think about sex anymore.

Yeah, and focusing on the journey instead of the outcome of the orgasm, you're bound to enjoy it more anyway.

And that's, that's education also in that part, setting up expectations. It also means you Go to the bedroom, or whatever you like to do, to the couch, or wherever, to set up the expectations.

Yes.

That makes a totally different thing in that part. As long as it's forced, it almost doesn't work. And that's what I learned in stories from those ladies who were professionals in that field.

Yes, they would, they would obviously need a lot of repeat customers.

They need repeat customers, and if they do a great job with them, he becomes a repeat customer.

Yes.

Wow, I performed amazingly! And they build up the confidence and make him give him a good time, and they just know how to tick the box and he comes back.

Yes.

It's a learnable skill.

He feels comfortable, he feels confident, and, um, yeah, very clever.

Yeah, and that's also the other way around. They don't get home that now it's all your issue that We have an issue.

Yes.

That's also from our side. Maybe go in, look at the girls. Oh wow, she's power woman. Okay, wow. But the moment we have to do something, it goes wrong. So just take your time and give that compliment. Because even if you're power woman, how many times do you hear you look awesome? Do you think all your body parts are perfect?

Of course not.

Okay, what's the first word you say now?

What do you mean?

Of course.

Of course.

That is not of course. Women are so made in this society to think they're not perfect.

Yeah.

And it doesn't mean you cannot change maybe your belly or whatever.

Yes.

About your food, being more healthy makes sense, but we cannot all be the girls from Frozen.

No.

But you can be the best you can be taking care of yourself.

Yes.

But some girls have A cup, some girls have DD cup. Yes. And they can feel happy or not happy about one of those sizes.

Yeah.

So as a guy, you also have to be aware of that part. They will say, oh wow, I had expected more or less. Yeah. When you look really there instead of in their eyes, you say, hey, look up. Yeah. So you have to be aware of those kind of things to sense pity as a guy also. Don't just, oh, you're not— yeah, you look better in clothes than without. Now, that doesn't help both parties.

No, no.

So you have to also build up—

it's about It's about the two parties coming together and being more understanding, more sensitive.

And make it happen.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

And once I spoke with a family that was coming from India where parents decide who they're going to marry. So they met each other once and then they got married.

Yes.

And they were married for 30 or 40 years. So I asked them, so how did you make the marriage work? Because you didn't know each other. And the woman looked at me and said, it's very easy. Easy? All right. We didn't have a choice, we just had to make it work.

Yes.

And I thought about it, we just had to make it work. So they had to compromise, they had to learn. But what do we in our Throw away society. Okay, I tinkered you, I test you out, and if I don't like you, I throw you away.

Yes.

How many times do we get as men or women a second chance? Almost none. You're swiped left or right. One bad sex experience.

Generally, we don't give. Generally, we don't give second chances.

No, no, no, no. What he did there, he said he wanted whatever kind of position.

Yes.

No, don't like it. Or you know, oh no, it was a little bit too hard to soft, or she screams too hard to love them.

Yes.

I mean, don't give a second chance.

You're right, we don't.

Those people didn't have an option because they couldn't go back to their parents. By the way, you said to us we have to marry. We had sex for the first time. It was horrendous. We don't do it anymore because the parents would say, we don't have a choice. Just make it happen. Yeah. So they had to learn from each other. They had to learn from each other and make it happen.

Yeah.

I don't say that's a perfect situation because then you're forced in something maybe you don't like. Yeah. Living in a prison and just have to survive there. I don't say that's a perfect world. But in between is somewhere the truth. We judge so easily. Oh no, nothing. Even in baseball, it's 3 before you get out. 3, how do you call it?

Strikes.

3 strikes. Thanks so much. 3 strikes. Even they have 3 strikes before they get out. We just, we don't give them a chance.

One strike out.

One strike out. If there's no strike at all, it's out.

Yeah, but that comes down to us wanting everything to be perfect the first time.

Maybe we should make the choice before. Say it doesn't work the first time, would I give him a second chance? Just think about that question before you go to bed with somebody. Just imagine you You see a beautiful guy out there.

Yes.

And you think, okay, he could be Mr. Perfect or not, or he's good enough, or whatever word you use for it. And then think about before you're going to the next date, say we're going to consume love or sex. Would I give him a second chance if the first time was not good? Or maybe if it's horrendous? Would I give him a second chance? If the answer is no, don't even start doing it.

That's a really good tool because a lot of the time we don't think about it. We don't think about it. We just think, yep, you know, straight on the sack. But if you actually stop and say, if it is not to my liking, would I see him again?

Would I invest time into make it happen? And of course, if he's an abusive guy and likes to rip you like hell, the answer should be no.

Yeah.

But say just things of whatever. So then it makes sense. It also puts a lot of pressure away because then you don't have something that should be perfect the first time. Yes, you can accept, okay, perfect the first time is maybe not perfect, but are we both willing to learn? Yes. And just imagine you would ask the guy that before you jump into the sack. Or I would ask— not you, I asked the girl, or that person would ask Hey, just imagine we're going to do something, consume love or make love, whatever the word love is, and say it's not how we really like it. Yeah, because I don't know, my position, your position, what we like, don't like, don't match each other right away. Are we then saying, uh, no, that's too much hard work, or we're going to give it a second chance?

Yeah, a lot of these conversations though are not happening. Everyone's thinking, well, let's just see what happens in the bedroom, and then I'm going to use that as an indicator of whether I see this person or not.

But this—

just imagine, it's like the conversation isn't even being thought about or spoken about a lot of the time.

Just imagine you go back to school times, and one of your teachers would say, oh, we're going to do an, uh, an And now an exam without any warnings before.

Yeah.

And you say, where's it about? Is it about what we discussed the last month? You will see, it can also be something from a previous semester. I'm just going to test you out how you are on this topic. Now half the class would probably have probably a panic attack.

Yeah.

But teacher, that's not fair. It should be about the last month we did. It would not make sense. But somewhere we do things in our current life now and we give no warnings, no any indication to your partner that we're going to judge them, without that they know where they're going to be judged about. So we create all our own experiences what we should be judged about.

Yeah.

That makes a lot of stress.

I know.

If I don't know if you would give me a second chance, I would freak out talking to a power woman. I think, okay, she doesn't give me a second chance. She's a power woman.

We need to have more of these conversations. Yes, I think our generation is just the worst for it. We're not talking, we're just, oh yeah, you know, going on, you know, the 1, 2, 3 date, and then, okay, it's the third date, we need to jump in the sack. Um, we do not talk A lot of us don't talk about it. It's taboo. And then we use the sex as an indicator of whether we like them or not. And if it wasn't that good, and if it wasn't, you know, if it didn't blow your mind, then you generally don't message them again or don't catch up with them again.

Most people know who have been in a longer time of relationship Yeah, the sex quality differentiates during time because in the beginning you're full of butterflies, so you cannot have enough of each other most of the times. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 times a day. And after, sometimes the butterflies go away and you go back to normal life because you also have work and a life and friends.

Yes.

And then it also becomes different. And also on those moments, a lot of people break up because their indicator was sex.

Yes.

And they didn't think about, okay, what happens if we go into the next stage? Yes. And they're also not willing to do the next stage.

Yeah.

And then we come back to the first story about the farmer. If the farmer only likes to harvest and don't like to have spring, summer, or winter, he will never harvest.

Yes.

You have to go through the whole cycle.

Yeah.

You cannot have a winter We zijn de zomer. Even in Noorwegen, in de Polen Arctic Circle, or in what is it even higher in the tops of Finland, they have summer. Shorter, but they have summer.

And just like relationships, they all have their seasons.

Of course, if you're only in the Arctic Circle and only have freaking cold, then maybe you should move a little to the more equator. It makes sense. So don't stay there because you think, okay, we have all good and bad times, and we now only have bad times, it should be there. So please move to a place where you feel happy.

Yes.

Or are happy. But also be aware, even on the equator they have seasons. Wet season and dry season. You always have seasons.

Yes.

Now just choose which season suits you best.

Yeah, definitely.

It would make sense to me, by the way.

Yes, that is a wonderful metaphor. Yes. Where are you getting all these analogies from? Yeah, definitely. All right, well, thank you. I've learned so much today.

Thank you again for being open for this.

Yeah, I'm now ticking away and thinking, yeah, I am going to have more conversations instead of having all these expectations and when they're not Met, I'm disappointed, and you know.

And it doesn't mean I'm the professional.

Strike one and you are out.

I'm the best, but doing it is sometimes harder than knowing it.

Yes.

And so I'm not judging anybody because having all my ups and downs relationships and being lonely, having my breakups and those kind of stuff.

Yeah.

I'm not the best. I learned also during the way with.

Yeah.

But like. Become aware and learn from my lessons. Somewhere, I hope, until the new one arises right away. Yeah, no, so thank you so much.

Thank you, Chris.

It was lovely, and it's also good to have somebody we can talk about this because a lot of people say that's a heavy topic, we cannot talk about this.

Oh no, I mean, we're European, we're very open about these topics.

But even then, a lot Of Europeans will not.

Yeah, I mean, we're the alternative. Yeah, alternative.

And then we start where we end where we started. Salt and Pepper made a song 15 or 20 years ago, Let's Talk About Sex. They wanted to break up and still the song was banned on a lot of radio stations. Yes, yeah, because you cannot talk about it. And probably even here people would say, oh, we cannot talk about this. And we did it in the previous one we did not record. We used much more stronger words without—

yeah, we really timed Yes, we did it more decent.

Let's get us also good seat.

Probably for Cinderella cutting everyone's hair.

We're gonna do it, actually. We're gonna do it tonight. That may be. Let's talk about sex. Let's talk about sex.

Let's talk about sex. Let's talk about sex.

Let's talk about sex for now. To the people at home or in the crowd, it keeps coming up anyhow. Don't be coy or boy or make void the topic, 'cause that ain't gonna stop it. Now we talk about sex on the radio and video shows. Many will know. Anything goes. Let's tell it like it is. And how it could be, how it was, and of course how it should be. Those who think it's dirty have a choice: pick up the needle, press pause, or turn the radio off. Will that stop us, Pep? I doubt it. All right then, come on, spin.

Let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about