DAY 2 - Get Companies to Compete for You [Reverse the Search LIVE]

We are live. Welcome to Reverse the Search Live Day 2. Go ahead and put a 2 in the chat if you're joining us again for Day 2, baby. So good to be back. Thanks so much for such a first great first Day 1. And today's topic is get companies to compete for you. So what we're really focusing on is In order to be a job shopper, you really need to get companies to get excited about you as a candidate, to not really see anyone else as an option, to not see you as interchangeable of, oh yeah, we could go with him or her, but you know, we can also go with these other people. No, you want them to say, oh please, will you join? No, no, we're going to hurry up our process so that, you know, you can get this offer and you can go with us instead of going with those other companies. And that is absolutely happening in this job market. And I'm going to show you how and show you what's working. So, so good to see you. I'm seeing lots of twos in the chat from my dear friends here. I'm seeing it from Doug, Hugo, Aid, Kristen, Atelus, Gustavo, Gabs, El Costello, Noel, Gabby, Jeffrey. Oh my gosh, I'm seeing a lot of familiar names. A lot of you came back for day two. Andrea. Yes. So good to see you. I'm so glad that y'all are back. Okay, I'm seeing folks from Miami, Australia, Canada, Kansas City, Memphis, Philadelphia, all across the board. So good to see you all. So we are on day 2 right now. So this is all about, you know, obviously getting companies to compete for you. If you missed day 1, make sure you go back. We're taking that recording down soon. So that is— that was finding what's costing you job offers. What we did yesterday was figuring out, okay, a lot of us are actually bad at figuring out what we are stuck on in the job search. A lot of people will come up with their hypothesis, and then once we dig into it, it's actually something different. So we figured out yesterday what you need to work on depending on your situation. Then tomorrow is when in this job market, which is because a lot of you've been saying, okay, Madeline, you've actually shifted a lot of your job search strategies from 4 years ago. And that's absolutely true because this job market is different. I'm going to walk through what those strategy shifts are. Then day 4 is open doors with the right conversations. So we're seeing a lot faster job searches happening if you have strategic communication, strategic networking, and I'll walk through examples of how to do that. And then day 5, turn interviews into offers. You'll, you'll know I have so many videos on how to interview really well. And so, so many people who come to me are in the interview stage, yet you're not getting as many offers as you were hoping for. Or maybe you're getting offers, but just not for the right opportunities. So we're going to crack the code there and make sure that instead of you're getting the silver medal, you're getting the gold in the interviews. And so today's agenda, we're going to do a couple of announcements, then we're going to talk about how job shopping came to be, the 9 shifts you need to make to become a job shopper. You're going to figure out how many of them you're currently doing and what you need to work on. We're going to do a case study and then we'll do an interactive Q&A where I'll be answering your questions live. We did it last night. It was just really easy breezy fun to just talk with you all and answer your questions for your situation. Because what I'm experiencing when I talk to you in, in the chat, when I talk to my clients, is the people who are attracted to me and my content are people who have excellent skills. And you're great at what you do. A lot of you are more tenured in your career. You've had a lot of successes at this point, and companies have really wanted you in the past. And opportunities have come to you without you having to hustle. And so how do we get companies to start chasing you? Because it's not like you necessarily had a specific strategy. Maybe in the past you knew someone, maybe it was just the perfect right fit, the perfect timing, everything coalesced. And now that momentum isn't happening quite the same. And this is a time to really figure that out. So I do want to say that we are experiencing so much good momentum. Here's just a few examples of folks from my coaching program who have said things like, I've only— I only used to get hit up by tech recruiters, but now after revamping my resume, I I now have messages from beauty recruiters after revamping it with SJS Tools. SJS Tools, that's actually my program's called Stand Out Job Search. So those tools that I kind of showed you yesterday, that's what she's talking about. So that's phenomenal. This person said, I got my first sourcing email today. Woo-hoo. And then we have this person who shared that as a an in-house, an in-house recruiter reached out to me and offered me to do an interview. So these are all things that have been happening in the last 30 days. There's a lot of momentum happening here, such as I went, I interviewed with an HR team and for a credit role today, and they already told me they want to move me on to the second round. I got invited to the final stage for a health startup. I just got a phone call from Amazon's recruiter offering me the job in the second interview loop 2 days ago. So I just want to say like a lot— there's so much doom and gloom happening out there of people saying, oh, there's so many layoffs, the job market's terrible, all that. But I just went and grabbed a bunch of screen caps from my internal community in my program of just the past couple of weeks. And I just want to say that there's so much momentum happening. There's a lot of sourcing. There's a lot of interviews and offers happening. So I want you to start filling your mind with abundance versus these feelings of, oh, this can't happen for me. Because the strategy they're following is job shopping. And there are 9 core strategies that set job shoppers apart from job seekers. And let's get into it. Okay, so close your other tabs, mute your phone, and lock in, because if you are multitasking, this will absolutely be a wasted hour. Mind clear, all ears, offers near, right? Mind clear, all ears, offers near. Let's go. So where was job shopping born? Well, it was born in a very quaint little cube. A girl never forgets her first cubicle early in my HR career. And I was really someone who was seeing every step of the hiring process, which resumes were being chosen, what come with all the hiring panels were saying about each and every candidate. And they said a lot of candid things that weren't written down. And I thought I would be the hero of these candidates and give them feedback on their applications and say, you know, here's why you weren't selected. Now put a yes or no in the chat if you would want this type of feedback on your application as to why that, that application wasn't selected. I'm curious to hear what you think, because I think it's kind of mixed, because when I did this, I got a lot of very angry emails. Turns out giving people unsolicited feedback is actually something that a lot of people don't tend to enjoy. And so I, I, it ended up becoming more of a nightmare than I expected. Oh, wow. So a lot of people just said yes, that they would want feedback. Okay. Oh, Robert says absolutely. OK, he, Key Wyatt, Key Wyatt says, yes, I would like any feedback. Yeah, Ashley says yes. Gabs. OK, wow. So a lot of people. Oh my gosh, David's 100% yes. So wow. OK, I haven't actually seen a no yet. So this is really— actually, no, it's not surprising because if you were here, you were someone who's very growth mindset oriented. And I feel like this is a very specific group with us right now. And so my next question for you is, would you prefer to be rejected after you've done job interviews via phone or email with an option to hop on a call? So put phone or email in the chat because this was my next idea was, oh, I am going to, you know, not focus on the application stage because that wasn't— that didn't work. But every time someone interviews with us and they don't move on to the next stage or they don't get the offer, I'm going to call them and tell them and give them the time and give them the feedback that they need. And my coworker caught wind that I was doing this. And he was like, Madeline, what are you doing? Do not call people on the phone. And that's going to make them feel so awkward. And I thought, what? I thought this is the ultimate respect. So I actually ended up sending out a survey to my coworkers to see what they said. Okay, so I'm seeing a lot of mix. I'm seeing phone, Actually, I'm seeing a lot more phone than I was expecting. A lot of emails too. And yes, Mary, Mary Ann says phone, email because phone is too much pressure. Yeah, that's, that's what I heard a lot. Yes, yes. Now Team Captain says email, but that doesn't necessarily make it easier. Yes. So my coworkers overwhelmingly said no, I just want an email. OK, don't, don't go, you know, rejecting me on the phone and then I have to awkwardly you react to your rejection. So, two strikes, okay? So I thought, all right, I'm gonna build a YouTube channel. This way, people who want help, they can come and get it. I'm gonna stop thrusting my— oh, I'm so benevolent, I'm trying to help everyone. No, Madeline, stop that. Just put out YouTube videos and the people who want them can have them. And I will say, this is one of my very early videos. They weren't really kind of poorly put together, right? I tried really hard. The content was solid, but you know, I was editing everything myself, doing all the lighting, all the camera work, building all the thumbnails myself, putting in all the keywords and all that. It took dozens and dozens of hours per video. I spent thousands of dollars on all these different tools and equipment and all of that. And what did I have to show for it after one whole year of putting out a video every single week. So what, how many weeks are in a year? 56. 56 videos. Well, I only had a few hundred views per video. Wow. And this reminds me a lot about the job seeker experience because there's so much about being a job seeker where you think, what is the point of this? I went through this entire interview process, got rejected. Why did— like, that was such a waste of time. Or I reached out to all these people. No one responded. That, that was pointless. And so that's, that's kind of the way I felt, but I did have a glimmer of hope because I would get these comments every now and then that would say, oh my gosh, why isn't your channel bigger? Why don't you have more views? The content is some of the best I've found on the internet on this topic. Oh my gosh. And that's what gave me the idea is I didn't really have a content problem. I had a visibility problem. And so I got to work on that. Now, around this time, tragedy struck. I got laid off. And put laid off in the chat if that has ever happened to you, because I do want to normalize it and show how many of us have experienced this. And it, it was, you know, my dream company. I'd worked there for over 3 years. It was phenomenal. Half the company was laid off. And at that point, I took my severance and I spent a 5-figure sum on coaching and programs on how to build my YouTube channel the way that people are actually going to see it, right? Get that visibility. And what was so wild is I went through this whole program and I didn't really have to change what is in my videos that much. It was all purely the way I was positioning them, the way people were finding them, the way things were. And so It was so ridiculous, right? It's exactly the job search in that we put in so much effort on like the way we position ourselves, but we don't actually necessarily have to change our skill set all that often. Oh my gosh, David's been laid off twice. Oh my gosh, Andre's been laid off 3 times in his career. Lady Sarah has been more than once. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Donna was laid off after 20 years. That is so heartbreaking. It's like, are we— don't we don't reward loyalty here? It's like, oh, you know, it's, it's just business. But it is heartbreaking. And so my heart goes out to you guys. But there is good news here. After my layoff and after me really understanding how to play the game, the success stories poured in. The views turned from hundreds of thousands to millions. And you all probably know how this ends, right? I got a book deal with Penguin Random House. I was on the news all the time. I was featured by all these big networks. I became a LinkedIn Learning instructor, all of that cool stuff. And the best part has actually been coaching folks and seeing their, their glow up, seeing their success stories and being here with people like you, which has been phenomenal. So if you are ready to get into this job shopping, the 9 different approaches, the 9 different strategies, put ready in the chat because we are about to dive the heck in. Okay, so the way we're gonna play this is there's 9 of these, so it's a lot. This is a lot of content. I'm gonna move pretty quickly. Sorry about that, just— I just didn't want to cut corners on the content here. So you're gonna want to rate yourself each time. Okay, so here you can see the rating scale. 1 is on one side, 3 is on the other, 2 is kind of if you're, if you're in the middle here. So which, which way do you lie for this principle? Okay, Okay, so on one side we have the job seeker who has unclear goals, and then on the other side we have the job shopper who knows exactly what he or she wants. And we talked about this yesterday, about getting clear about what you're targeting, what you want, and how that attracts more opportunity. So go ahead and rank yourself of like, uh, you know, which, which number are you for this one? Then we get to the job seeker versus job shopper of on one side, it's the job seeker feels busy and exhausted in the job search. Oh my God, there's so much to do. I'm applying so many places. I'm interviewing so many things. Oh, and then the job shopper on the other end feels focused and in control in the job search. So notice I changed the scale, but this is so because we all have like different delays of when we're watching. So we can tell who's responding to which prompt. So hot is like, yes, very job, job shopper. Cold is the job seeker. And you know what is so important here is to avoid productive procrastination. That's like where you edit your, you know, your LinkedIn About section for the second time and it's like, okay, that's, that is such a waste of time to keep editing your about section. It's like kind of the most useless part of your LinkedIn profile. It's not useless, but it's one of the least effective to spend your time on. Or you keep tweaking your resume, keep tweaking your resume, all that kind of stuff. So it's really important to have, you know, a plan. So for example, here's an example of a job search plan. This is for a job seeker where it's just a few different tasks to do for the week custom to them. This is part of our platform for Standout Job Search. And so here you can just see there's very select things that they need to do, such as they have an interview tomorrow. And so, okay, you need to complete the things on your checklist and make sure your prep doc is good to go. Maybe, you know, this person has already filled out part of those from previous interviews or whatnot. And then once you're done with it, you're done. And there's, there's a magic here of making sure that you are not over-preparing, that you're not over-exhausting yourself, that you have that breathing room because that creates a lot of abundance energy. All right, so how are we doing as far as our ranking of ourselves? Oh my gosh, I just opened it up and Andrea says frozen. Oh my gosh. Okay. All right, we'll definitely— we'll work on that. That's okay. Yeah. And I see Andrew and AJ says warm. Okay, and so we're seeing a lot of warm people. Michael says warm. Cold to warm, says Thai, Thai O'Toole. Okay. Oh, we see some hots. Pilot. Pamela's hot. Okay, great. Warmish. Okay, good. We're measuring ourselves here. Write, write these down. Write down your scores. Next is continues to buy more degrees and certifications. And then on the job shopper side, finds ways to demonstrate their skill set. So this is super important. We— it was— Paul mentioned this yesterday. He's like, oh my gosh, I was going to buy an MBA, but then Madeline, you talked me out of it. And I'm not saying that education is useless, but we sometimes overdo it and we think that that's going to— okay, here's what I'll say. The education doesn't really help you to land a job, but it can help you to be a more competent person. But you really want to demonstrate that skill set. For example, here's what my client said. I've been trying the idea generator for Show Don't Tell, and I'm loving it. It's giving me great ideas for each role. And she says she started incorporating it to her applications. So this is a strategy that I pioneered called Show Don't Tell, which is essentially shifting into more of a, you know, where you're showing how you'd work, versus just talking about it. So this is really important because trust is at an all-time low right now with all this proliferation of job seekers using AI. Companies don't really trust that you actually know how to do these things. And so we have this tool called the Show Don't Tell Idea Generator where you can, you know, create these ideas of like what is going to make the company really interested in you. And so you fill everything out, but then it comes up with ideas and here's, an idea bank. This one is for a recruiter role. So it comes up with all of these different ways that you can impress them by showing your work. And then you can select as many as you want and it gives you a plan of exactly how to create it step by step. Of course, you can do it your own way as well. But we've been having a lot of great success with this. And we're actually, we're going to throw this in for free for anyone who signs up for Standout Job Search until May 25th. Oh, I forgot to mention that. So we actually are— we opened up our coaching program a few weeks ago and we're giving $1,500 off. And so if you want to join, we have all kind of different price points now. For the first time ever, we have a lower price point so it can be a bit more accessible. Because we've built out this extremely robust custom site with lots of really bespoke AI tools and all that. And so now we're able to open it up to people who want to just invest in more of the core functions, the core tools, because that gives you enough guidance because it gives you that core focus. But yeah, and then you can also get Lots of coaching as well. A lot of these folks that I'm showing here is part of my guided tier. I know there's, there's a lot of terms here, but essentially, definitely, if you're looking for these types of tools or you're looking for coaching, make sure to enroll by this upcoming Monday. And if you want, we're doing a fast action bonus, which is happening by this Friday. So just pay in full for whichever program you choose. By Friday and you get a LinkedIn VIP session with me where we will go over everyone's LinkedIn profiles and you can get really good feedback live in the moment. So that's going to be really great. Okay, so that was just a quick announcement that I forgot to give. It's open. Take advantage of it. If you were going to get coaching, don't, don't wait. All right. So then we get to our next one. Get your rankings ready. I'm excited to see what you think about for this one. Job seekers think about applying— think applying more will land a job faster. And then the job shopper focuses energy on faster ways to get noticed. So we talked a bit about this one as well. We talked about it yesterday, and I was actually pretty pleased with how much you guys were focused on, okay, yeah, let's not make the job search all about a numbers game. I have gotten a reputation of being called like a comeback coach, which is really where folks who, who have been rejected for a role then are reconsidered and still get the offer. So one of the examples is Brittany. Who, she was one of my clients and she was like, I loved this hiring manager, but I just got rejected for this role. I was like, okay, well put that on the back burner. Let's just keep marching ahead. So she ended up getting into final rounds with another company. I said, all right, now's the time we go back to that first company. And so we started talking to them like, hey, Brittany's about to be off the market, you know, do you want to hire me? And they said, Yes, we do want to hire you, but probably in about 3 months. And Brittany looked at me, she's like, I do not want to wait 3 months. I can't wait 3 months. And so with the right communication, with the right massaging of the situation, we got them to speed up their timeline. They hired her within, I think, 2 weeks or something like that, like something really fast. And so that is really what you need to think about as a job shopper is focusing your energy on faster ways to get noticed instead of kind of falling to this, oh, well, you know, I got rejected. All right, let me start completely fresh from another company. And of course, there's lots of different ways to move faster. But I want to start opening your mind up to that. There's so many possibilities, so many rules you can break that people don't tell you to break. So let's see what you guys were saying in the chat. Okay, so I'm seeing a lot of yellows, a lot of yellows. Connor's a green. Okay. Rosemary's a yellow. Oracle's a red. Okay. Okay. And then we have a streak of greens. Kelly, Gabby, Neela. Okay. Yellow to green, says David. All right. So we have— I don't know, this one actually was quite, quite the variety. All right. So the job seeker stays generic to not miss out on different jobs. And then the job shopper positions themselves exactly as what their target companies are looking for. So if you saw the case study yesterday with Paul, he definitely touched on that. And that was one of the reasons why he was able to get several job offers. And I thought it would be cool to kind of show you this example of one of my clients, a conversation I recently had. So I basically gave her feedback on her resume and was like, cut out this, cut out that. I basically cut out, as she says here, it was hard for me to let go of many volunteer and contract roles, and now my resume is more focused on relevant experience. And so it was, it was emotional for her. It was tough to say goodbye to these, these amazing experiences that she had. But then within days, She was getting sourced by a recruiter and then she had a phone screen. And so while our ego sometimes gets in the way, even Paul yesterday said, oh my goodness, you know, I, I feel like I had to get rid of so many of my awards and stuff. But it really is important to cut to the most important things. So yes, and someone said it's, it's very similar to marketing. That's exactly right. And that's the kind of the sucky thing you have to realize about the job search is that it's not about being good at your job. It's about learning how to sell and market yourself, which selling and marketing are extremely important skills, but it's super hard to do that when it's yourself. Like I've worked with so many marketers and coached so many marketers where it was like really easy for them to market things and sell things, but when it came to themselves, it was so difficult. Um, and that's just the way it is. We're sitting in the bottle, can't read the label. So next one we have is job seeker views interviews as a time to convince the company of their skills, whereas the job shopper views interviews as a time to discuss and collaborate with a potential employer. This one is very nuanced. This one takes a lot of coaching to really help folks. And so kind of do, say, weak, solid, strong for how you feel about this one. Because I wanted to give you an example to articulate this. This isn't really an example where I'll show you the end result. It's kind of the, the messy middle. So this is a client I had where, to give you some context, I listened to an interview he had and he was asked by the interviewer to explain the role that— explain the role that you're interviewing for. Like, how do you view this role? And he really struggled in the interview to describe it. And I was like asking, I was like, hey, what happened there? You know, what was going on? And one of the things he said to me is like, I wasn't super clear as to which job description Rob was referring to. For me to describe because I was actually being evaluated for two different roles. And this is where I had to coach him and say, hey, let's actually shift more, less of a, this is an exam, there's one right answer, to more of a job shopper approach where let's, you know, collaborate and let's, let's, you know, let's ask the question. Oh, you know, actually, my, my previous call with Chaz, He mentioned that I was being considered for two different roles. Which one do you have me down as? Really effortless way. So that's the types of things I'm constantly coaching people on is like rethinking the way that they're viewing interviews. Okay. Are we, are we getting this? All right. I'm seeing some solids in the chat. I'm seeing some, some weeks. Yeah. Okay. So I'm seeing, I'm seeing a variety and I'm seeing some explanations as well. Okay. Okay, cool. So, oops. Yes, perfect. Next we have the job seeker focuses on the most impressive aspects of their past and the job shopper speaks to the needs of the company. Okay, so this is even— I mean, so many of these are relevant. Paul is like such a job shopper, which is why I keep bringing him up. The case study from yesterday, he really switched the way he talked to really translate it to the industry he was speaking to. He didn't, he didn't use military speak. He really focused on the needs of the company versus focusing on himself. And that was a huge, huge transformation. And the job seeker leaves a good impression on the interviewer, and the job shopper leaves the interviewer's seeing them as in a league of their own. Okay, when I worked in HR and recruiting, this is something that always amazed me and is literally the reason I'm sitting in front of you right now is I was like, oh my gosh, if you guys could only see what it's like on the other side. They are getting excited about you. They're constantly emailing Madeline, did, you know, Carl accept the offer? Did Jeffrey accept? Did Rosemary accept? And, and, you know, I'm like, okay, you know, they're so excited and they're always like excited about certain people and you have to kind of get to that level and understand how to get there. And that's what a job shopper does is it leaves them really wanting it. And so really it's not just your skills, but it's also your personality, the way you present yourself. So this brings us to The job seeker eventually lands a job offer and the job, job shopper lands several offers and has companies competing for them. So I actually was looking back on, on all the case studies that we're going to do this week, the 5 case studies, and every single one of them got multiple job offers. And I— it wasn't on purpose that I selected that, but I wanted you to know that there's a very specific way that you can line up your offers, to make sure that you are getting multiple offers at the same time. We've even built it in here. So when you are going to, what's happening for your interview here. So like, this is a 4th round interview here. It says on the checklist, update them if you're in final rounds with another company or have a job offer. And then it tells you exactly what to say to the different companies. It has all the different messages as well as all the different ways, like all the tools to communicate with different people in different situations. And so it's just like you need to know when to communicate, how to communicate, and communication is a huge part of lining up multiple offers. Okay, I'm seeing lots of folks. Okay, so I'm seeing some folks saying like negative one for some folks. Okay. Okay. Yes. I feel like this one, you're right. This one is a little bit more objective of like, all right, you can tell if you have multiple offers or not, or not, like versus kind of some of the more softer, the softer elements as well. That's no problem. We can elevate, we can make it happen. And so if you're honest with yourself, which job shopper strategy do you need to focus on? Go ahead. And I know you've been taking notes. You've been kind of looking through. All 9 of these strategies, what, what would you say is the strategy you need to focus on most? Go ahead and put that in the chat. Think about it for a minute and put it in the chat. And I, I'm excited to share with you, we have Tuong, who she did a wonderful case study for us. And I wanted to have her today because she is a job shopper, but she has everything working against her. So it really is basically where she was— she, she was a stay-at-home mom. She hadn't worked in 10 years. She— but when she did work, it was in a completely different country. And she basically had everything stacked against her. And she was still able to land— I'm not gonna say how many offers because you'll hear, but it's, it's a lot. She landed a lot of offers. but not before she really started adopting job shopper strategies. So let's take a look at what Tuong had to say. Tuong, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me. Nice to see you again.

Yeah, it's so good to see you. And so you are someone whose story has been just so inspirational in how you went from being a stay-at-home parent in a new city to landing 3 job offers and one in like absolute record time. So I just want to bring it back to the beginning and kind of so we can really walk step by step how you were able to make this transformation. Tell us, before we met, before you could have gotten to the program, where were you in your job search and what was happening?

Sure. Yes. So I, uh, decided to become like a stay-at-home mom in 2020 in the middle of COVID And I've been— and then I had 2 kids until 2024 when I went through like a— like when both of my kids start going to daycare and I have more time and I feel like I want to go back to work. But I also just moved to Seattle less than a year ago. So Yeah, it was a difficult decision for me, but especially when I also wanted to go back to the line of work that I did like 10 years ago. So it's like a lot of challenges, but yeah, I just hired someone to rewrite my resume. And after that, I had a very, I think, like, very wordy and generic resume. I tried to apply to as many positions online as I can. And now looking back, it's very clear to me that I had no strategy, no, really no focus with my job search. I just go with like the number game approach. And all of these is doable. Yes, you can apply to as many positions as you, as you want to, but it's at the cost of my mental health. So that was where I was before joining your program.

That is so interesting. So you kind of went the— so you, you, you know, you did the prudent thing is you hired someone to do your resume and then you tested it. You sent it out to a bunch of employers and yet that didn't yield the numbers. And it'll be interesting to talk to you more as this conversation goes on, because I always talk about It's not a numbers game. Sure, you need enough, you know, you need enough data points, you need enough contacts, you need enough all these things to make it happen. But it's not about this pure volume. And, you know, exactly. Even the resume needs to be a certain way in order for any of this to break through. So, and then emotionally, what was that like thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going for roles that it's been 10 years since I did this. I'm in a new city. What were some of the feelings that were coming up for you?

Yes, I was very anxious and nervous. I, but I also understand that there is no other way for me to feel happier in my life. Um, I did not really tell anyone because, you know, like of the worry that what if I couldn't find a job? What if a lot of what-ifs and, uh, Yes, a lot of— actually, even my husband, he's very understanding, and he told me, you do whatever makes you happy. If you want to go back to work, go back to work. If you want to stay at home, stay at home. Whatever that makes you happy. But even him, a very smart person, also told me that it's all about the number game. Just apply as many as you can. So yes, I was not sure what to do. Very— a lot of anxiety.

It's so tough when the people in our lives are often pushing us in certain directions, uh, and, and I'm sure that has worked for him in the past, right? And it's usually for good reason, right? Go get another degree, go do a numbers game, uh, you know, stay in whatever career path is right, whatever it is that we get this aim lower, right? We get all this this feedback from people and it's— and it probably did work in a specific situation. But to your very specific situation in this job market, in the field you're in, it just doesn't quite get the same results. So that's really interesting.

Just one more thing, like, and 10 years ago when I was an executive assistant, I worked in another country. So, um, uh, it's a totally different working culture. Different country. And, uh, 10 years, I don't know what is the new tools, what the new skills are needed here, and the, uh, the work ethics. I, I have no idea.

Uh, you have everything stacked against you. Exactly. It's a totally different culture, decade ago, you know, skills have shifted, all that kind of stuff. And so then you got in the program, and tell me some of the things that you started changing that were getting you results.

I think the one very important thing is like the career clarity, like the very first stage where I have to take a step back, think through of what I want, think about my priorities, my values, and that helps me to really understand it is something that I really want. It is, you know, logically and also emotionally, and it helps me to find a job, but it also helped me to to make quick decisions when I need to quit the job because I'm clear about my values. I'm clear about my, what is the most important thing. And when it's clear, it's, yeah, it helps me to make the decisions faster.

That is such an interesting point. You know, I know, you know, I've coached a lot of people on these types of things and I want you to elaborate kind of on how you made quicker decisions, but you know, I'll often coach people And sometimes they would skip that first part, but then they would be trying to process, should I take this opportunity? Should I not? Is this worth my time? And they'd be like, oh, but the commute is really long, but should I still do it anyways in this role? And it's like, if you do all that upfront, actually it makes the employer more attracted to you because you're articulating exactly what you want. You're attracting more of those opportunities. And sure, maybe it's like you realize that certain opportunities aren't right for you and you focus your attention because you had multiple job offers, offers, you got 3 job offers. So what were some of like those crucial decisions that you were making?

So I think when I think about my priorities and my values, one of the things is clearly different, like, between me 10 years ago and now is that I have kids. So I need the flexibility in terms of time. And I also need— I want to work with someone who is— who doesn't need me to do everything. Like, yes, I'm an assistant, but I don't, you know, live the life for you. So, um, so when— so I accepted the first, um, one of the offer, and then the boss turns out to be like very needy. He wants, he needs, he just needs someone to be there with him, like online present. And he counts the hours from, I have to be in the office like right at 8, and then I can only leave like right at 5. And that is, that is like very, very stressful for me because I also have to stand by for my kids. So when when the, when the moment comes, I was like, okay, I— this one doesn't align with my values. Like, what, what do I need now? I cannot, I cannot work with this. I, I'm, uh, I'm very stressful and I'm not happy. So, uh, what is, what is my values? What is my priority? I need someone to trust me to— that I will work as much as I can, but also, uh, trust me enough to let me go when I need to. And this one doesn't have that, doesn't give me that. So I, I need to leave. So, uh, that decisions of quitting that offer, even though I was just like 3 months in the job, um, it came very— it happened very easily for me.

I—

a lot of people think that, oh no, I just got a job, I, I cannot leave these, I need to stick with this for at least a year, uh, otherwise it would be—

you know what was interesting about this is that you had the confidence to leave that job. And tell me a bit about that, of how You know, you had all these job shopping strategies at that point. You'd implemented the program. What gave you the confidence to leave that job and then land another one so quickly?

Uh, because I, I went through it. I knew that it worked. And what is the worst case? Okay. I will spend another few weeks to find something that I, um, something that works better. So it's, it's, It's not too bad. I'm doing it already and it cannot be getting— it cannot be worse than where I am now.

Like, okay, so, so tell us, because I'm sure there's a lot of people who want to land a job quickly and these jobs you were going for were competitive and really attractive. So, and you were able to land your next job offer, your third job offer within a couple of months. I mean, probably like 6 weeks, right after you had resigned from the previous one. So, What were some of the things that allowed you to land a job so quickly?

Uh, I, I think one of your recommendations is like, uh, is really great. That is like to look for the— identify the job, um, the, the hiring manager, right? Not just like the PR, but the, the, the hiring manager. And that's what I did. And I even took it to the next level where I tried to find their email address. And I would email them directly and ask for an interview. I know that is a lot of risk, and not in, not in every situation I would do that. I would just do that for the positions that I really, really want. And, uh, and I did. And, um, and another tip that you, uh, that you share is like to keep following up. Like, if they ignore it, don't take it personally. They may be very busy. If you keep following up, if you persistent, then something will happen. And I did that, and I followed up with that email to the CEO of this tech startup. And over a month, I followed up with 2 emails, and now on the 3rd one, I said that I hope this is the 3rd time is a charm. I hope that you don't mind my persistence, and I just want to know why you did not— if you don't mind, can you tell me why you will not consider me? And magically he replied. He said, I'm sorry, I did not get back to you. This is it. And I got the interview with him. I got to the top of the pipeline of like a few hundred applications. And yeah.

Yeah. And I love that you took all of those strategies seriously, right? I gave the exact emails, I gave exactly how to follow up, all that kind of stuff. And so you didn't overthink it. You just said, all right, I'm going to do this. Even if it feels uncomfortable, like, did you feel uncomfortable at all doing some of these things you had to do in the program?

Yes, at the very beginning, very uncomfortable. Uh, some, some people agree to talk to me and it's still very awkward, uh, until I talk on the phone with them and, and awkward to them too. But I also learned to just focus on the positive, uh, forget about all the ignore. They may read, they may not read, they may not reply, and just focus on the 1%, 2% that respond to you. And that is where all the, you know, good things happen.

I would also like to ask about your transformation when it comes to interviews and talking about yourself. What are some of the changes you made? What are some of the changes you saw in yourself when it came to interviewing?

Another very valuable advice from your program is that to be very specific. Like give specific example, give specific story, and I have to think through a lot of small stories in my career to pick up like a very different one. And yes, it may sound also, it may sound like very awkward to not say like the generic, the template one, like I'm a team player, I'm a this and this, and giving like very real examples which seems to be like very insignificant story, but it actually got the attention from the recruiter, from the interviewers, that, oh, these details is like very different. And one of the— when I answer additional information in an email, there is one story that, yes, very— seemed very insignificant to me, but when the recruiter reached out to me and asked for an interview, that is the story that he referred to. Like he said that what got my attention is this line of your answers, which sounds very different. And then I realized that yes, the more specific, the more personal, the more different your story is, the better.

I love that. Thank you for sharing that advice and passing it along. And it's one of the things that's really fun for me as a coach is giving feedback on these answers, right? Because you know, you are so close to your own situation. Where it's like, does this sound right? You know, am I giving enough detail? Am I giving too much detail? You know, and so that, that's been really cool to kind of see that. And then as far as your— a lot of people will say that their biggest challenge is confidence. How, how did your confidence, if at all, change over the course of these strategies and kind of what, what led to that?

Yeah, I think it will grow over time. You have to be scared a few times before you feel more confident. You have to really love your story and very proud of yourself, and it requires you to keep thinking about it and keep— maybe also needs to listen from other people. That is like the prep talk. And there's one prep talk that I listen to many times, every time before an interview, is when like Roger Federer, where he say that even the best tennis player would lose 50% of the time. So yeah, you love your story, you're proud of it. Other people may not feel the same way, but it's okay. It's still you.

And well, my question is, you know, with you having worked 10 years prior and taking that time off, how did you develop that confidence? Right. And you say you're giving very specifics, but how did you do that if that was 10 years ago?

I reached out to my previous employers, the boss 10 years ago, and they, they are very like elite people and they are still, they still remember me. They still thank me for what I did. And that confirms, uh, that is a confirmation to me that I did a great job. And, um, um, yeah, and, and that is another point that you, uh, you of your program is that reach out to your ex-employers, you know, just keep the relationship. And, um, you don't have to reach out for, for a specific reason, just, you know, send an email and ask how it's going, uh, this and that.

That's so great. Yeah, because a lot of people feel like It's, it's been so, so long, and how can I speak to this? And so having— I'm just so glad you really embraced the job shopper approach of building those relationships, you know, using these frameworks, getting feedback on each step so that you felt, felt super confident. And so tell us a bit— we've kind of teased a bit of it, but tell us about your results. Like, like how many offers did you get?

How—

what was it like? All that kind of stuff.

Yeah, I actually have 4 offers. The first one, it was, uh, from a very small firm, and, uh, they, they pay much lower than what I expected, so I declined. Uh, but that, that is like the first proof to me that I— people still want to hire me. So that kind of like helped with my confidence. Um, and then the, the next 2 came at the same time, and, and I used one to negotiate the other, and I eventually accepted one. And, but then, yes, it turns out to be like a very toxic working environment, and within 3 months I quit. And I reached out to other people, like also call, email, and say that, hey, I'm available. I know that it may raise a red flag, but hear me out. This is the story, and I'm I'm available for the next opportunity. And they did give me that lead to the opportunity. And I went for an interview and several interviews. And one last thing, like the show, don't tell, that thing of yours. And it's also about learning about your interviewer. I learned, I did research about my interviewer the last round, and I know that he is he appreciates art and he's interested in art. So I brought my art portfolio because on the side I'm also like an artist, and I even bookmarked the page that I want to open to him to show him. And even though this is like the office job, I know this is what he's interested in. I brought it in. It's just like one minute, the last one minute of the interview, and I, oh, by the way, this is what I want to show you. And he's so cool.

I love that.

Yeah.

So I— yeah, you landed 4 job offers. And what was so cool, I think, about the, the one that you landed, I guess the 4th one, is, you know, you were kind of scrambling. You're like, hey, I, you know, I resigned from this role, I already landed 3 job offers, I know I can land a 4th. And that was around, I remember, Thanksgiving. Yeah. And, and then, but you already had your next opportunity lined up by January 1st. And I just want to really call that out to everyone because so many people say, oh, once Thanksgiving hits, you can't land any opportunities. Absolutely not. I would say in, in our, in this program, I'm like, keep going during the holidays, keep going. And there's all these different strategies to like rise to the top during the holidays. So I'm just, I just think that's such an important call out that that's not a time to stop. And so I don't know, any, any last advice to someone, especially someone— I know you're someone who invests in themselves. It was a big leap for you to invest in coaching. It's a lot of money. It's, it's, you know, I know you're also quite cynical about coaching, I believe, like you're a little bit worried of like, can I trust this lady on the internet? What is your thoughts to someone who is having those extremely legitimate feelings?

Uh, I think, uh, my advice is, um, uh, if there's any money that you should spend, that is like spend on yourself. So this is like, I think, like the very, uh, valuable investment I did for myself, and I'm very happy about it. Um, and once you go in, just go all in, you know, like do whatever she tells you to do. Um, She tells you to stop and think about what you want for career, then stop and think. Don't rush into— stop applying blindly, then stop, you know. Just do everything and believe in yourself. And again, you know, even the best will still lose. So just have some faith and just do your best. That's all I can say. Yeah.

Amazing. Tuong, thank you so much for coming on. I'm going to send you away with a Wi-Fi high five. All right, well, so great to hear from Tuong. Um, I really appreciate that she took that time to be vulnerable about us, being like, hey, I was in a toxic situation, I had to get the heck out of there. Um, but it's so cool to hear that she bucked up and was like, all right, I'm going to land another opportunity. And the fact that she was dropping all those gems of some specifically, okay, this was my key takeaway and this is specifically what I did and this is the email I sent and this is who I contacted. Shout out to Tuong. Oh yes. So my team let me know that y'all, that you especially yesterday were putting some questions in the chat about the program and all of that. I'm not going to dive into it too much today because I do want to get to the Q&A. But because we've been getting a lot of emails and messages, just so you guys know, we do— here, actually, I'll share my screen over here so you guys can see. So this is the, this is the program. It's called Standout Job Search. We'll go ahead and link it in the chat in case this is something you're interested in. It's at www.selfmade.com/learn. And really, it It is a coaching program with all the tools that you have been seeing. All these tools is really the cornerstone of this program. And you all have seen, I have hundreds of testimonials online, recorded video folks. So we just have proven that this process works. And that's why I have been so excited to launch this new phase with this new tier of people to bring them in. One of the major things that I've really focused on is specific tailored advice. That I think is super important. Your situation is unique. And I hope that you've seen, because it's very difficult to talk to hundreds of people at a time, and I hope you've seen that each person, you need to massage things differently. Maybe the outreach message you send needs to happen more frequently or more often than someone else in a different situation, all that. So that is really where the coaching comes in. Our coaches, including myself, have deep recruiting expertise. I've noticed a lot of other programs, they'll typically have people who've just done a couple of really good job searches, or they're more in kind of like the career counseling realm. So they haven't done large, high-scale recruiting, which really you just see the world in a different way when you've done that. And less time job searching. So getting sourced on LinkedIn, having a job search plan, all of that is at your fingertips. And of course there's the tools so you can look through here. I mean, you can see what you need. And the idea is that whatever you need at any time, the job search actually isn't linear. So you get your job search plan that's custom to what you need to do at that time. You get the coaching support. You get the networking community, the one-page career vision. So that's what everyone keeps talking about, about getting that career clarity. We have an entire, I believe, 8 or 7 step system to make sure you know exactly what you want next, how to build out your resumes. After you've built out your resume, there's just a button you can click that tunes your resume to each different job you go for. You, you with the COVID letters that actually legitimately work. We actually have gotten comments on the COVID letters being like, Yeah, no, that's the reason you got the interview. Your complete LinkedIn makeover and how to correspond with folks, everything at your fingertips. Interview preparation. So we actually have a tool that does mock interviews with you and gives you a bunch of feedback. And so you have that at your fingertips. And then the compensation strategy as well. And so there's 3 different tiers: core, guided, and white glove. Everyone you've been hearing from so far is on the guided tier that is the most popular. And you can kind of read what goes in each. I'm not going to go through this ad nauseam because we can do that another day. And you can— and if depending on, you know, what you're kind of looking for, you can see what is best for you. So now we're going to dive into— let's see. Oh, one thing I wanted to make sure I could would say is that to make sure to— if you are interested in the program, you are going to get the LinkedIn VIP bonus if you pay in full for any of the 3 tiers by this Friday. Enrollment closes, the $1,500 off closes on Monday. But if you have the fast action, you're decisive, you know, this is what you want. I would say just go for it, pay in full by Friday evening. Because then you're going to get the LinkedIn VIP session. I'm going to be live in a workshop with you, giving you feedback on your LinkedIn profile. It's a really fun session to just get a bunch of things done and start getting sourced. And so you can see this message here of this person who attended my LinkedIn VIP session, and within 3 days of doing that session, they got 3 recruiter outreaches. So just a reminder to make sure to do that, and you can go ahead and grab you know, that and the link. Oh yeah. And then here's just a bunch of reminders of the slide I showed earlier of all these folks getting sourced. And so that was a lot of the work from LinkedIn. All right. So let's dive into the Q&A. I want to A your Qs. So let's talk about it. So go ahead and put your questions in the chat. And Let's see what you have going for you. So Amaka says, are, are interviewing answers supposed to be concise or elaborate? How many minutes would you advise? So there it depends on the question. I would say a good rule of thumb is under 2 minutes. If you do under 2 minutes, you're usually golden. There's some questions that you'll be asked, well, they'll be like, Well, so what's your experience with project management or something like that? And you could talk for an hour about that answer, but really maybe they're just asking for, uh, for something specific, right? And so you can give them a menu answer. In that case, it's like, well, I have about 10 years of working on various different projects. Um, are you asking about like the tools I use? Are you asking about this? Right? You can give them a menu of options and then they can choose it. Or maybe they might say, no, no, I just needed that quick overview. That's Fine, we can move on. So just know that you can be a bit more dynamic in the answer to see if you should continue answering farther. All right. If, if I've chosen one title in one industry, do I ignore recruiters that send me interesting jobs in a different industry? Oh, that's an interesting question, Brennan. Should I search for a more temporary or contract role while I search for my dream job? Okay, so both, both excellent questions. So, I know I would say still explore opportunities with the recruiter. I mean, okay, so here's the thing. I typically think that if a recruiter reaches out to you, unless it's like crazy, like way in an industry or something that just has nothing to do with it, like they're, they're looking for electricians and you're an accountant, right? Then it just wouldn't— there's never going to be any overlap. But if they are saying, hey, we, we hire people that are kind of like you, just take the call. It's like easy networking. And even if they don't hire you for this position, if they hire for other companies or other roles at that company, hello, you could get in that way, right? That's such a good way to do that. Now, should I research— should I search for a more temp or contract role? Absolutely. I think that temporary and contract roles are extremely great. Gateways into amazing opportunities. We've had a lot of clients get excellent contract roles and then they become the internal hire, right? They move into then the roles like they're actually considered more for opportunities because they're able to hear about those opportunities before they come up. Sometimes they don't even interview anyone else. So I actually think that is an excellent idea. So let's see. Tracy says, the case studies you've presented since yesterday seem to have you one-on-one throughout the program instead of a guide documents and more of a hands-off approach your program seems to offer now. Am I off base? So this is the first time we're offering a lower tier. So I've always done the— so everyone you've seen so far has been in the guided tier. That's the middle tier. Where I am responding to them constantly of giving them that feedback and I know their stories. The reason I'm telling you their stories is because I know them. This is the first time ever because the platform is so advanced and it, it does have, it has like also even a Madeline AI component. I don't know if I've showed you guys this, that there's actually a, let's see, there's, there's a Madeline AI where you can talk to her and call her and chat her. So that's why I felt okay with doing a lower tier where if you want to access all these tools, access Madeline AI, which has over a million words logged in here, it is my digital brain. I would never put this public because it is so robust and valuable. So, so yeah, so everyone who you've seen so far, they did get coaching and they came from the middle tier. And but then I also have more of like an executive tier where it's like very like done with you, done for you, where if you want a higher touch, you can do that as well.

Okay.

Let me know if that was helpful. So Costello says, is it okay to remove my most recent role or move it down on in the resume if it was less than a year and doesn't align with the corporate roles I'm applying to, i.e., most recent was a nonprofit? Okay. So, hmm, one thing I might suggest, because I do think it is, it is helpful, especially you don't want huge gaps in your resume. It really depends. I really have to look at your resume myself. But, but let's just kind of give some general advice here. And, and, you know, hopefully I get to work with you. We can kind of get a little deeper. So I would say I would probably keep it there in most cases, but make it very brief. So a lot of people think that every single thing on your resume has to have like 3 to 6 bullets. No. What if it's just one bullet or something like that? And then also having a really good, compelling highlight section would help to offset this. So, yeah, you know, you— there's some other ways you go about it, but I would say that was how I would default. Let's see. Does your coaching program offer guidance on transitioning from employee to business owner career shifts? Okay, so it's basically how to start a business. I would not join this program for how to start a business. It's called Standout Job Search. It is how to job search. So yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't join the program to, to become a business owner. There's tons of other programs out there that would be amazing for you. This is not it. All right. How much should I follow up on a job that I applied for but didn't get any email from the recruiter? So I would say typically it's good to just do a 3, a 3 follow up, you know, kind of like a 3 strikes you're out type situation. And I might not— I think it's kind of a misconception that you, you should reach out to the recruiter recruiter. I wouldn't really focus that much energy on the recruiter. The recruiters are the people who have the biggest, fattest, most, you know, just too many emails. Right. And so I would focus on people who are closer to the opportunity, either networking with people in the business and, and finding those people or the hiring manager or whatnot. You could totally contact the recruiter as well. I'm not saying it's bad to contact a recruiter. It's just probably if we're talking about who's going to respond, recruiter may not be the most responsive. So let's see. So let's see. Okay, so I'm seeing a lot of people sharing what are the 9 things. Okay, that's great. Okay, so Shima says, how long should your bullets be in your CV? I mean, like I said, I'd like to see your, your CV yourself, but I would say typically, you know, 2 lines is quite good. You know, you don't want to pack them too densely because it's all about readability. One thing that's really important on the resume is just get rid of paragraphs. Paragraphs are the death of your resume. Focus on bullets, get information across quickly, and just kind of make sure that they're concise. But, you know, I could also— there's an exception to every rule. So, so I could definitely see there's plenty of you who probably have where I'd be like, oh yeah, this, this is— you can make this longer. All right. So let's see. So Casa says, How do you address an 8-month gap on a resume? Well, we're getting a lot of resume questions tonight. I'll try to mix it up. I'll try to mix it up. I'll get some non-resume ones in here soon. So for an 8-month gap on a resume, what we see is you're going to be asked the question, what have you been doing the past 8 months? And you should have an answer. For that. I think having a gap is not a death sentence, and I don't think you necessarily need to put something there, but it would be great for you to start contributing. How are you contributing in your profession? You know, for example, like if I, if I had a gap right now and I wanted to land my next HR role, I would be talking to business owners, either ones that I already know or like reaching out to them and giving them HR advice. Maybe helping them with their hiring panels, stuff like that. Like it would just be pro bono. It would just be keep myself sharp, keep myself with some new interview stories for them, some, some things where I could say, oh, well, last week I did this because that's very— they can tell, right? They can tell if you're staying sharp or not. And so I would be integrating a lot of those types of things. And I would even put that on my resume if I was actually, you know, consulting with people, whether it's paid or not, I would put that on my resume. All right. Let's see. Okay. So Jennifer asked, should I follow up with a company after the interview to ask why I wasn't chosen? I, I don't, I don't think you're really going to get any good feedback there. I do have a— I do in my platform have a template based on the situation. That we do whip out depending on if it is a situation to get feedback. But overall, I would try to continue building the relationship more than trying to get information. All right. So let's see. Let's see. Okay, cool. All right. We're talking about COO roles. Let's do it. So Elizabeth says, I'm not applying to posted COO roles, as, as most opportunities at that level get filled before they reach the market. Yes. What have you seen work best for actually accessing the hidden executive market? Yes. So I would say for this is there's essentially two-pronged things, is that first of all, you need to be found. You need to be in the right databases, you need to be very easily found on LinkedIn, and possibly even on some specialty job boards. Okay, so sourcing is really a huge main way that executives are getting interviews. So you need to make sure that you are optimized to a T, that you are the person that they find for that opportunity. The second piece is networking, right? Is talking to the right people at the right times. I can't tell you how many executives I've hired in my career for different companies I've worked at. Where we just made the position for them. We're like, oh yeah, we will need a COO soon. You're amazing. We're just going to hire you within the next month. And so you need to be having those conversations. Now, how do you do it? What way do you go about it? Day 4 is when we're going to really talk a lot about that. So we'll dive into that more on day 4. Oh, well, this has been absolutely so, so fun. Thank you so much, everyone. If I could get a Wi-Fi high five in the chat. Thank you so much for your amazing questions and your participation today. Tomorrow, we're really diving into the strategies that are specifically working in this job market. Some of the strategies that I didn't say 4 years ago because the market was different and what I'm seeing people actually, what's leading them to win. And so thank you so much, everyone, for being here, for being attentive. Um, uh, and I will see you back tomorrow. Give you a Wi-Fi high five. Let me put some, uh, put y'all at the chat here. Thank you so much. I'm seeing the thank yous come in from Shima and, uh, Realy and Pamela. Yay! Gabby, Harold, Robert, thank you so